Overwhelmed. I started tearing up. This guy's life is ending in front of us. Ugh. Too much.
This is tragic nonetheless but we come into the story halfway thru it...will admit from where it starts it doesn't look good and he was licensed to carry a gun, but in this particular case I definitely need to get all the facts
this woman's poor child...now that gets me
informed the cop he carried, was licensed. stated he was reaching for id. AS ORDERED. murdered.
anything else you want?
Yes, more facts. All I've seen so far is a video after the fact and the girlfriend giving her side of the story. If her story is true then yes, very bad. The very best we could hope for is the cop was paranoid with an itchy trigger finger. What I haven't seen (don't know if it's out yet?) is any other footage, what happened prior to the shooting, the cops side of the story. Did no one not learn anything from Ferguson and rushing to judgment? "Hands up don't shoot" never happened, it was proven with physical evidence that many "eye witnesses weren't even at the scene, and that there was a struggle at the police car. So what more do I want? A full investigation and a complete story before I wish to judgment. If he was ordered to take out his ID and was then shot, then yes the cop should punished for that. But lets at least hear his side and see some evidence before we crucify him.
Who announces to a police officer that they have a weapon on their persons and a permit to carry such weapon, if their intentions are malicious or criminal? Something tells me that this young man was not about to go out in the blaze of glory with his 4 year old daughter in the backseat during a routine traffic stop. Not to mention that he was racially profiled to begin with! News reports have confirmed what was said by the police officers over the police scanners before he was pulled over. The officer had stated that this young man looks like a robbery suspect because of the "wide set-nose"! Sorry, but nothing makes any sense here to justify the officers actions.
Pulled over 31 times for traffic violations in the last 10-15 years?
Somebody posted something earlier that if the police stopped hassling black people doing daily things... this might be good for all. I can't help but think this nugget of advice is something to embrace.
Generally speaking, the routine pullovers gone bad are of the grotesque variety. Cops coming to a scene where someone is brandishing a weapon are tolerable, but these 'mountains out of mole hills' are troublesome and hard to digest.
And now, with all that's happened, tell me more cops aren't going to be extra defensive when detaining a black person.
Just to add to the pile of shit already going on, our local children's hospital Miami children's Hospital is currently on lockdown due to an active shooter, and bomb threats.
I don't think it matters one way or another why or when she filmed it. She obviously thought to do so, and did when she could. I don't think anything beyond that should be meaningful because it has absolutely nothing to do with her fiance being shot by that cop IMO. If that cop shot her fiance at point blank range because she had a fucking cell phone in her hand and she was able to just keep on holding the cell phone long after the shooting, well..... I don't think that's really worth thinking about, because it doesn't seem like a reasonable thought to me, because it makes no sense at all. Of course, anyone can think about whatever they want. I just don't see how any of that is relevant.
Yeah, it doesn't matter. It's just cop apologists trying to muddy the waters. When you got nothing else to hang onto you resort to character assassination. It's happened in all these shootings involving black men.
While an aspect of this might be true... it needs to be said that such character assassinations happen on both sides of the equation.
Cops are hung by eager cop haters the moment a black man is shot regardless of any circumstances leading to the event.
* It's taken a while, but as these shootings have become the norm... I've developed the ability to wait and see what the story is before jumping to too many conclusions.
I can't imagine any story that might justify the Minnesota shooting, but at the same time and prior to last night... I'm having trouble thinking a cop pulls a black guy over and is intent on murder.
I doubt he intended on murdering anyone when he pulled him over either, but that doesn't change the outcome.
I just get bothered at how much doubt has been placed on the witness. Why do we doubt her version of events so much? I think we should be asking what does she have to gain? And what does the cop have to gain or lose by his telling of how it went down?
She came across as a calm, cool, matter of fact witness to me.....all while the cop was screaming (mostly to himself) and losing his shit. It's a pretty easy call whose version of events sway me at this point. I'm having trouble figuring out what the cop could say that would make me think any different.
And I really doubt there are too many cop haters here. I don't hate them. I'm deeply saddened by the cops that were murdered last night. Nobody deserves that.
I personally just want to see them held accountable when they fuck up. Which seems very rare. I also want to see them do a better job. They need to be better trained and paid better. That should help attract better people and allow PD's to turn down shittier candidates.
Overwhelmed. I started tearing up. This guy's life is ending in front of us. Ugh. Too much.
This is tragic nonetheless but we come into the story halfway thru it...will admit from where it starts it doesn't look good and he was licensed to carry a gun, but in this particular case I definitely need to get all the facts
this woman's poor child...now that gets me
informed the cop he carried, was licensed. stated he was reaching for id. AS ORDERED. murdered.
anything else you want?
Yes, more facts. All I've seen so far is a video after the fact and the girlfriend giving her side of the story. If her story is true then yes, very bad. The very best we could hope for is the cop was paranoid with an itchy trigger finger. What I haven't seen (don't know if it's out yet?) is any other footage, what happened prior to the shooting, the cops side of the story. Did no one not learn anything from Ferguson and rushing to judgment? "Hands up don't shoot" never happened, it was proven with physical evidence that many "eye witnesses weren't even at the scene, and that there was a struggle at the police car. So what more do I want? A full investigation and a complete story before I wish to judgment. If he was ordered to take out his ID and was then shot, then yes the cop should punished for that. But lets at least hear his side and see some evidence before we crucify him.
Who announces to a police officer that they have a weapon on their persons and a permit to carry such weapon, if their intentions are malicious or criminal? Something tells me that this young man was not about to go out in the blaze of glory with his 4 year old daughter in the backseat during a routine traffic stop. Not to mention that he was racially profiled to begin with! News reports have confirmed what was said by the police officers over the police scanners before he was pulled over. The officer had stated that this young man looks like a robbery suspect because of the "wide set-nose"! Sorry, but nothing makes any sense here to justify the officers actions.
Really? Pulling someone over because they match a physical description of a robbery suspect is profiling?
And what is wrong with wanting the whole story? I did not defend or criticize the cop. Just stated we only have 1 side of the story, with a video of after the incident. If you're against having all the facts before making a judgment, then there's something wrong with you.
I don't think it matters one way or another why or when she filmed it. She obviously thought to do so, and did when she could. I don't think anything beyond that should be meaningful because it has absolutely nothing to do with her fiance being shot by that cop IMO. If that cop shot her fiance at point blank range because she had a fucking cell phone in her hand and she was able to just keep on holding the cell phone long after the shooting, well..... I don't think that's really worth thinking about, because it doesn't seem like a reasonable thought to me, because it makes no sense at all. Of course, anyone can think about whatever they want. I just don't see how any of that is relevant.
Yeah, it doesn't matter. It's just cop apologists trying to muddy the waters. When you got nothing else to hang onto you resort to character assassination. It's happened in all these shootings involving black men.
While an aspect of this might be true... it needs to be said that such character assassinations happen on both sides of the equation.
Cops are hung by eager cop haters the moment a black man is shot regardless of any circumstances leading to the event.
* It's taken a while, but as these shootings have become the norm... I've developed the ability to wait and see what the story is before jumping to too many conclusions.
I can't imagine any story that might justify the Minnesota shooting, but at the same time and prior to last night... I'm having trouble thinking a cop pulls a black guy over and is intent on murder.
I doubt he intended on murdering anyone when he pulled him over either, but that doesn't change the outcome.
I just get bothered at how much doubt has been placed on the witness. Why do we doubt her version of events so much? I think we should be asking what does she have to gain? And what does the cop have to gain or lose by his telling of how it went down?
She came across as a calm, cool, matter of fact witness to me.....all while the cop was screaming (mostly to himself) and losing his shit. It's a pretty easy call whose version of events sway me at this point. I'm having trouble figuring out what the cop could say that would make me think any different.
And I really doubt there are too many cop haters here. I don't hate them. I'm deeply saddened by the cops that were murdered last night. Nobody deserves that.
I personally just want to see them held accountable when they fuck up. Which seems very rare. I also want to see them do a better job. They need to be better trained and paid better. That should help attract better people and allow PD's to turn down shittier candidates.
I'd agree on the accountability item. For sure. However, let's be honest... there have been incidents where in many people's minds... cops have acted as they should have, yet much of the public refuses to accept their defence.
I'd also agree that it's time to pay the profession and honour it. Make standards exceptionally high and correspond with a compensation package that encourages the best people we have. Police work should be held in the highest of regards. Forces should be able to recruit... not accept live bodies that are remotely fit and do not possess criminal records.
I don't think it matters one way or another why or when she filmed it. She obviously thought to do so, and did when she could. I don't think anything beyond that should be meaningful because it has absolutely nothing to do with her fiance being shot by that cop IMO. If that cop shot her fiance at point blank range because she had a fucking cell phone in her hand and she was able to just keep on holding the cell phone long after the shooting, well..... I don't think that's really worth thinking about, because it doesn't seem like a reasonable thought to me, because it makes no sense at all. Of course, anyone can think about whatever they want. I just don't see how any of that is relevant.
Yeah, it doesn't matter. It's just cop apologists trying to muddy the waters. When you got nothing else to hang onto you resort to character assassination. It's happened in all these shootings involving black men.
What character assassination? You must be referring to Michael Brown and his liquor store robbery Or the dude selling CD's with a violent criminal history? How is any of that character assassination? Or Gardner who resisted arrest and again had an arrest record? How is any of that character assassination? Its called stating facts. Brown robbed a liquor store, attacked a police officer and shot, revealing the facts is character assassination and means I'm a cop apologist?
And why was that even brought up, I haven't seen anyone accusing this latest shooting victim of anything? All I've seen on here so far are protests to the suggestion of waiting until the full story comes out. If we believed everything that came out the first few days with Brown we'd all still believe he had his hands up yelling don't shoot, but that wasn't true. I haven't seen anyone saying leave the cop alone he's innocent, but just suggesting to wait until we hear the whole story. Why would you not want all the facts? Seems pretty irresponsible to me.
If the girlfriend's statements turns out to be true, then the cop deserves to spend a lot of time in jail. But he doesn't deserve a chance to give his side or collect evidence first? That's not a country I'd want to live in, sounds more like North Korea to me.
I don't think it matters one way or another why or when she filmed it. She obviously thought to do so, and did when she could. I don't think anything beyond that should be meaningful because it has absolutely nothing to do with her fiance being shot by that cop IMO. If that cop shot her fiance at point blank range because she had a fucking cell phone in her hand and she was able to just keep on holding the cell phone long after the shooting, well..... I don't think that's really worth thinking about, because it doesn't seem like a reasonable thought to me, because it makes no sense at all. Of course, anyone can think about whatever they want. I just don't see how any of that is relevant.
Yeah, it doesn't matter. It's just cop apologists trying to muddy the waters. When you got nothing else to hang onto you resort to character assassination. It's happened in all these shootings involving black men.
While an aspect of this might be true... it needs to be said that such character assassinations happen on both sides of the equation.
Cops are hung by eager cop haters the moment a black man is shot regardless of any circumstances leading to the event.
* It's taken a while, but as these shootings have become the norm... I've developed the ability to wait and see what the story is before jumping to too many conclusions.
I can't imagine any story that might justify the Minnesota shooting, but at the same time and prior to last night... I'm having trouble thinking a cop pulls a black guy over and is intent on murder.
I doubt he intended on murdering anyone when he pulled him over either, but that doesn't change the outcome.
I just get bothered at how much doubt has been placed on the witness. Why do we doubt her version of events so much? I think we should be asking what does she have to gain? And what does the cop have to gain or lose by his telling of how it went down?
She came across as a calm, cool, matter of fact witness to me.....all while the cop was screaming (mostly to himself) and losing his shit. It's a pretty easy call whose version of events sway me at this point. I'm having trouble figuring out what the cop could say that would make me think any different.
And I really doubt there are too many cop haters here. I don't hate them. I'm deeply saddened by the cops that were murdered last night. Nobody deserves that.
I personally just want to see them held accountable when they fuck up. Which seems very rare. I also want to see them do a better job. They need to be better trained and paid better. That should help attract better people and allow PD's to turn down shittier candidates.
To be clear when I was asking questions I wasn't denouncing the witness at all, hell I wouldn't give anything to have been her in that situation, but being a critical thinker I have to wonder as to why she would have grabbed and started recording or moving around or doing anything while an obvious distraught cop was pointing a gun inside the car, screaming at her and himself while my child was in the backseat after just putting 4 bullets in her bf for apparently no reason
now let me give credit where credit is due your post I just responded to here was damn spot on
Overwhelmed. I started tearing up. This guy's life is ending in front of us. Ugh. Too much.
This is tragic nonetheless but we come into the story halfway thru it...will admit from where it starts it doesn't look good and he was licensed to carry a gun, but in this particular case I definitely need to get all the facts
this woman's poor child...now that gets me
informed the cop he carried, was licensed. stated he was reaching for id. AS ORDERED. murdered.
anything else you want?
Yes, more facts. All I've seen so far is a video after the fact and the girlfriend giving her side of the story. If her story is true then yes, very bad. The very best we could hope for is the cop was paranoid with an itchy trigger finger. What I haven't seen (don't know if it's out yet?) is any other footage, what happened prior to the shooting, the cops side of the story. Did no one not learn anything from Ferguson and rushing to judgment? "Hands up don't shoot" never happened, it was proven with physical evidence that many "eye witnesses weren't even at the scene, and that there was a struggle at the police car. So what more do I want? A full investigation and a complete story before I wish to judgment. If he was ordered to take out his ID and was then shot, then yes the cop should punished for that. But lets at least hear his side and see some evidence before we crucify him.
Who announces to a police officer that they have a weapon on their persons and a permit to carry such weapon, if their intentions are malicious or criminal? Something tells me that this young man was not about to go out in the blaze of glory with his 4 year old daughter in the backseat during a routine traffic stop. Not to mention that he was racially profiled to begin with! News reports have confirmed what was said by the police officers over the police scanners before he was pulled over. The officer had stated that this young man looks like a robbery suspect because of the "wide set-nose"! Sorry, but nothing makes any sense here to justify the officers actions.
Really? Pulling someone over because they match a physical description of a robbery suspect is profiling?
And what is wrong with wanting the whole story? I did not defend or criticize the cop. Just stated we only have 1 side of the story, with a video of after the incident. If you're against having all the facts before making a judgment, then there's something wrong with you.
In this particular circumstance this looks clearly like a case of profiling, after what the officer had stated and was heard over the scanners stating that "he looks like our guy, I am going to pull him over, I have a reason to pull him over" that is a direct quote from the police officer. And I never said that there is anything wrong with wanting the whole story, I have simply implied that nothing here shows any kind of justification for the officers actions. I of all people know and believe that there is 3 sides to every story, but on this specific case nothing adds up to Philando having done anything wrong given the facts that we currently have now. In fact the more reports that keep coming out on this particular case the more it convinces me that the officer was clearly using poor judgment on his end. Philando's biggest crime commited was driving without proper registration once. A stand up citizen who was loved in his community and by the children of the school he worked at. This young man made it a point to memorize the names of 500 school children and all their food allergies as he worked in the school cafeteria. Yea this guy is a "scumbag" and deserves to die.
I don't think it matters one way or another why or when she filmed it. She obviously thought to do so, and did when she could. I don't think anything beyond that should be meaningful because it has absolutely nothing to do with her fiance being shot by that cop IMO. If that cop shot her fiance at point blank range because she had a fucking cell phone in her hand and she was able to just keep on holding the cell phone long after the shooting, well..... I don't think that's really worth thinking about, because it doesn't seem like a reasonable thought to me, because it makes no sense at all. Of course, anyone can think about whatever they want. I just don't see how any of that is relevant.
Yeah, it doesn't matter. It's just cop apologists trying to muddy the waters. When you got nothing else to hang onto you resort to character assassination. It's happened in all these shootings involving black men.
While an aspect of this might be true... it needs to be said that such character assassinations happen on both sides of the equation.
Cops are hung by eager cop haters the moment a black man is shot regardless of any circumstances leading to the event.
* It's taken a while, but as these shootings have become the norm... I've developed the ability to wait and see what the story is before jumping to too many conclusions.
I can't imagine any story that might justify the Minnesota shooting, but at the same time and prior to last night... I'm having trouble thinking a cop pulls a black guy over and is intent on murder.
I doubt he intended on murdering anyone when he pulled him over either, but that doesn't change the outcome.
I just get bothered at how much doubt has been placed on the witness. Why do we doubt her version of events so much? I think we should be asking what does she have to gain? And what does the cop have to gain or lose by his telling of how it went down?
She came across as a calm, cool, matter of fact witness to me.....all while the cop was screaming (mostly to himself) and losing his shit. It's a pretty easy call whose version of events sway me at this point. I'm having trouble figuring out what the cop could say that would make me think any different.
And I really doubt there are too many cop haters here. I don't hate them. I'm deeply saddened by the cops that were murdered last night. Nobody deserves that.
I personally just want to see them held accountable when they fuck up. Which seems very rare. I also want to see them do a better job. They need to be better trained and paid better. That should help attract better people and allow PD's to turn down shittier candidates.
I'd agree on the accountability item. For sure. However, let's be honest... there have been incidents where in many people's minds... cops have acted as they should have, yet much of the public refuses to accept their defence.
I'd also agree that it's time to pay the profession and honour it. Make standards exceptionally high and correspond with a compensation package that encourages the best people we have. Police work should be held in the highest of regards. Forces should be able to recruit... not accept live bodies that are remotely fit and do not possess criminal records.
Yup, there are always people on the extreme.
I've personally withheld comment on the Alton Sterling killing because I really can't say it wasn't justified. It looked terrible but if he was in fact trying to get his gun I don't really see what other choice the cops had. And they tried to at least taze him first.....something a lot of other victims were not afforded.
It's the ugly side of the amount of guns in the US. I can't blame some cops for being a little nervous walking up to a car when you have no idea what they might be carrying.
I don't think it matters one way or another why or when she filmed it. She obviously thought to do so, and did when she could. I don't think anything beyond that should be meaningful because it has absolutely nothing to do with her fiance being shot by that cop IMO. If that cop shot her fiance at point blank range because she had a fucking cell phone in her hand and she was able to just keep on holding the cell phone long after the shooting, well..... I don't think that's really worth thinking about, because it doesn't seem like a reasonable thought to me, because it makes no sense at all. Of course, anyone can think about whatever they want. I just don't see how any of that is relevant.
Yeah, it doesn't matter. It's just cop apologists trying to muddy the waters. When you got nothing else to hang onto you resort to character assassination. It's happened in all these shootings involving black men.
While an aspect of this might be true... it needs to be said that such character assassinations happen on both sides of the equation.
Cops are hung by eager cop haters the moment a black man is shot regardless of any circumstances leading to the event.
* It's taken a while, but as these shootings have become the norm... I've developed the ability to wait and see what the story is before jumping to too many conclusions.
I can't imagine any story that might justify the Minnesota shooting, but at the same time and prior to last night... I'm having trouble thinking a cop pulls a black guy over and is intent on murder.
I doubt he intended on murdering anyone when he pulled him over either, but that doesn't change the outcome.
I just get bothered at how much doubt has been placed on the witness. Why do we doubt her version of events so much? I think we should be asking what does she have to gain? And what does the cop have to gain or lose by his telling of how it went down?
She came across as a calm, cool, matter of fact witness to me.....all while the cop was screaming (mostly to himself) and losing his shit. It's a pretty easy call whose version of events sway me at this point. I'm having trouble figuring out what the cop could say that would make me think any different.
And I really doubt there are too many cop haters here. I don't hate them. I'm deeply saddened by the cops that were murdered last night. Nobody deserves that.
I personally just want to see them held accountable when they fuck up. Which seems very rare. I also want to see them do a better job. They need to be better trained and paid better. That should help attract better people and allow PD's to turn down shittier candidates.
I'd agree on the accountability item. For sure. However, let's be honest... there have been incidents where in many people's minds... cops have acted as they should have, yet much of the public refuses to accept their defence.
I'd also agree that it's time to pay the profession and honour it. Make standards exceptionally high and correspond with a compensation package that encourages the best people we have. Police work should be held in the highest of regards. Forces should be able to recruit... not accept live bodies that are remotely fit and do not possess criminal records.
Yup, there are always people on the extreme.
I've personally withheld comment on the Alton Sterling killing because I really can't say it wasn't justified. It looked terrible but if he was in fact trying to get his gun I don't really see what other choice the cops had. And they tried to at least taze him first.....something a lot of other victims were not afforded.
It's the ugly side of the amount of guns in the US. I can't blame some cops for being a little nervous walking up to a car when you have no idea what they might be carrying.
I agree with you here on that level. I for one have not said much on the Alton case, as this particular case I would like to see all the facts before making a single comment. I do not know nearly as much about this case, as I know about Philando's. Alton's case is going to be very interesting to see all the facts as to what exactly happened. Either way it is sadly another unfortunate event.
I don't see anything wrong with pulling someone over who "looks like our guy" when referring to a robbery suspect. He probably was a good guy, and it is a shame this happened. No one has said he deserved this It would add to that shame if it turns out there was a legitimate explanation but this cop has already moved due to numerous death threats and forced to quit his job.
It is entirely possible the girlfriend may be 100% accurate in her account and the cop had some racially motivated reason to just shoot him. Seems doubtful he'd decide to do that at a traffic stop with 2 other people in the car, but yeah possible.
Its possible the victim was nervous about being pulled over and through his nervousness was noncompliant and the cop over reacted?-Sure, its happened before.
Or perhaps the cop didn't hear him declare he had a weapon and then freaked out when he saw it. Would the cop be at fault for over reacting? Absolutely. Would I call him a murderer and declare open season again-probably not.
Is it possible the girlfriend made up her statements? I actually don't think she did, but its entirely possible. There's a thousand other scenarios that could have happened, and my point is we really have no idea.
Even OJ Simpson would look innocent if we only heard his side (and apparently just a poor version of the other side as well), so why all the rush? The truth will eventually come out.
Some of you will disagree, but I feel bad for Darren Wilson. He had his family received deaths threats to the point he had to relocate, his career was destroyed, his name and image will always be tarnished, all while having a baby. This was a result of lies that were spread because I believe he was 100% justified in his shooting once the facts were out. Why would anyone want to repeat this?
I cant remember anyone defending that cop in SC after that video came out of shooting the guy in the back. I believe it would be the same outcome if after all the facts are in it looks just as bad for this cop, but we just don't know enough yet.
I don't see anything wrong with pulling someone over who "looks like our guy" when referring to a robbery suspect. He probably was a good guy, and it is a shame this happened. No one has said he deserved this It would add to that shame if it turns out there was a legitimate explanation but this cop has already moved due to numerous death threats and forced to quit his job.
It is entirely possible the girlfriend may be 100% accurate in her account and the cop had some racially motivated reason to just shoot him. Seems doubtful he'd decide to do that at a traffic stop with 2 other people in the car, but yeah possible.
Its possible the victim was nervous about being pulled over and through his nervousness was noncompliant and the cop over reacted?-Sure, its happened before.
Or perhaps the cop didn't hear him declare he had a weapon and then freaked out when he saw it. Would the cop be at fault for over reacting? Absolutely. Would I call him a murderer and declare open season again-probably not.
Is it possible the girlfriend made up her statements? I actually don't think she did, but its entirely possible. There's a thousand other scenarios that could have happened, and my point is we really have no idea.
Even OJ Simpson would look innocent if we only heard his side (and apparently just a poor version of the other side as well), so why all the rush? The truth will eventually come out.
Some of you will disagree, but I feel bad for Darren Wilson. He had his family received deaths threats to the point he had to relocate, his career was destroyed, his name and image will always be tarnished, all while having a baby. This was a result of lies that were spread because I believe he was 100% justified in his shooting once the facts were out. Why would anyone want to repeat this?
I cant remember anyone defending that cop in SC after that video came out of shooting the guy in the back. I believe it would be the same outcome if after all the facts are in it looks just as bad for this cop, but we just don't know enough yet.
In this particular situation it just looks like the officer was profiling, and making a statement of this being "our guy" because of race. It speaks volumes when the Mayor is saying in not so many words that this case started because of the officer profiling and using poor judgment.
That case isnt as cut and dry. You're dealing with a career violent criminal who wasnt even allowed to own a gun. That doesnt allow anyone to kill him but its ridiculous that a man who raped and beat people is now a martyr. A dumb cop helped do that. Should have just arrested him and tased him again.
Alton's case isnt as cut and dry. You're dealing with a career violent criminal who wasnt even allowed to own a gun. That doesnt allow anyone to kill him but its ridiculous that a man who raped and beat people is now a martyr. A dumb cop helped do that
True... I'm not too sure what's up with the gun part. Did he have a gun or not?? Either way, he was pinned face first on the ground by at least 2 cops in the video, so I can't say I understand how the cops thought their safety or their lives were at risk while they were kneeling on the guys neck - not enough at risk to justifiably press a gun against the back the head of a prone man that they're on top of - and pull the trigger. Even if he maybe had a gun IN HIS POCKET, how did they figure he'd manage to get it out of his pocket and fire it in that position? The cops completely had the upper hand already. If that answer to that is some elaborate "what if" scenario, where perhaps he moves his knee that way and his arm that way, and IF the cop happened to slip at the time and lose his balance long enough for this dude to get the gun out of his pocket and then get a shot off with the maybe-gun, then I'm not buying that as an excuse at all. I don't think I get why this case is being looked at as maybe kinda sorta justifiable on the cops' part. To me, it looks like a pretty clear cut case of an unjustified shooting. I don't feel like Alton's criminal history is relevant in the slightest if we're talking about whether or not the cops were justified in killing him under those circumstances.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Alton's case isnt as cut and dry. You're dealing with a career violent criminal who wasnt even allowed to own a gun. That doesnt allow anyone to kill him but its ridiculous that a man who raped and beat people is now a martyr. A dumb cop helped do that
True... I'm not too sure what's up with the gun part. Did he have a gun or not?? Either way, he was pinned face first on the ground by at least 2 cops in the video, so I can't say I understand how the cops thought their safety or their lives were at risk while they were kneeling on the guys neck - not enough at risk to justifiably press a gun against the back the head of a prone man that they're on top of - and pull the trigger. Even if he maybe had a gun IN HIS POCKET, how did they figure he'd manage to get it out of his pocket and fire it in that position? The cops completely had the upper hand already. If that answer to that is some elaborate "what if" scenario, where perhaps he moves his knee that way and his arm that way, and IF the cop happened to slip at the time and lose his balance long enough for this dude to get the gun out of his pocket and then get a shot off with the maybe-gun, then I'm not buying that as an excuse at all. I don't think I get why this case is being looked at as maybe kinda sorta justifiable on the cops' part. To me, it looks like a pretty clear cut case of an unjustified shooting. I don't feel like Alton's criminal history is relevant in the slightest if we're talking about whether or not the cops were justified in killing him under those circumstances.
Wow.
The cops spoke to him- he disregarded them. The cops tasted him- he resisted. The cops wrestled him to the ground- he fought them as they did it.
Then... this is where things get dicey. At this point, if he was going for his gun because he could get to it... I don't blame the officers one bit. At all.
Laughably, you suggest that even if he could get his gun at that point after all the other law enforcement steps had occurred the officers should have... ? ... I don't know... go for a chicken wing hold and see how that might work?
Get serious. A cop hesitating at that moment might have made the difference between life and death for the officers called to duty.
If they were hell bent on killing the black man... I highly doubt they would have wrestled him to the ground to take a shot point blank- way too much risk.
I could be wrong. Even still... at this point... I'll give the officers the benefit of the doubt over the violent sex offender who was tussling with them on video.
Alton's case isnt as cut and dry. You're dealing with a career violent criminal who wasnt even allowed to own a gun. That doesnt allow anyone to kill him but its ridiculous that a man who raped and beat people is now a martyr. A dumb cop helped do that
True... I'm not too sure what's up with the gun part. Did he have a gun or not?? Either way, he was pinned face first on the ground by at least 2 cops in the video, so I can't say I understand how the cops thought their safety or their lives were at risk while they were kneeling on the guys neck - not enough at risk to justifiably press a gun against the back the head of a prone man that they're on top of - and pull the trigger. Even if he maybe had a gun IN HIS POCKET, how did they figure he'd manage to get it out of his pocket and fire it in that position? The cops completely had the upper hand already. If that answer to that is some elaborate "what if" scenario, where perhaps he moves his knee that way and his arm that way, and IF the cop happened to slip at the time and lose his balance long enough for this dude to get the gun out of his pocket and then get a shot off with the maybe-gun, then I'm not buying that as an excuse at all. I don't think I get why this case is being looked at as maybe kinda sorta justifiable on the cops' part. To me, it looks like a pretty clear cut case of an unjustified shooting. I don't feel like Alton's criminal history is relevant in the slightest if we're talking about whether or not the cops were justified in killing him under those circumstances.
This was a shitbag criminal who was already allegedly brandishing a gun. He had a taser used on him, he continued to resist. They were attempting to restrain him and he was continuing to fight. If he'd thrown one off and had free access to his arm and pocket there would have potentially been dead cops. His criminal past (which I find very relevant and informative), and his present behavior (brandishing/threatening w/ a firearm and resisting) obviously presented a danger to the community and to the cops trying to secure him. Unless something completely damning of the cops comes to light, this was a case of an idiot getting exactly what he deserved, and society benefits from the trash being taken out. This case is 180 degrees different than the St. Paul shooting. I don't understand how anyone is attempting to portray this piece of shit as any kind of victim (except I guess he's the victim of his own bad behavior). He had been arrested for domestic violence, aggravated battery, weapons charges, and was a registered sex offender convicted of screwing a juvenile. I guess we're all operating with limited information, but from the information that has been presented, from witnesses, from video, etc... I'm siding with the cops on this one, and against the cops in the St. Paul shooting.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Alton's case isnt as cut and dry. You're dealing with a career violent criminal who wasnt even allowed to own a gun. That doesnt allow anyone to kill him but its ridiculous that a man who raped and beat people is now a martyr. A dumb cop helped do that
True... I'm not too sure what's up with the gun part. Did he have a gun or not?? Either way, he was pinned face first on the ground by at least 2 cops in the video, so I can't say I understand how the cops thought their safety or their lives were at risk while they were kneeling on the guys neck - not enough at risk to justifiably press a gun against the back the head of a prone man that they're on top of - and pull the trigger. Even if he maybe had a gun IN HIS POCKET, how did they figure he'd manage to get it out of his pocket and fire it in that position? The cops completely had the upper hand already. If that answer to that is some elaborate "what if" scenario, where perhaps he moves his knee that way and his arm that way, and IF the cop happened to slip at the time and lose his balance long enough for this dude to get the gun out of his pocket and then get a shot off with the maybe-gun, then I'm not buying that as an excuse at all. I don't think I get why this case is being looked at as maybe kinda sorta justifiable on the cops' part. To me, it looks like a pretty clear cut case of an unjustified shooting. I don't feel like Alton's criminal history is relevant in the slightest if we're talking about whether or not the cops were justified in killing him under those circumstances.
This was a shitbag criminal who was already allegedly brandishing a gun. He had a taser used on him, he continued to resist. They were attempting to restrain him and he was continuing to fight. If he'd thrown one off and had free access to his arm and pocket there would have potentially been dead cops. His criminal past (which I find very relevant and informative), and his present behavior (brandishing/threatening w/ a firearm and resisting) obviously presented a danger to the community and to the cops trying to secure him. Unless something completely damning of the cops comes to light, this was a case of an idiot getting exactly what he deserved, and society benefits from the trash being taken out. This case is 180 degrees different than the St. Paul shooting. I don't understand how anyone is attempting to portray this piece of shit as any kind of victim (except I guess he's the victim of his own bad behavior). He had been arrested for domestic violence, aggravated battery, weapons charges, and was a registered sex offender convicted of screwing a juvenile. I guess we're all operating with limited information, but from the information that has been presented, from witnesses, from video, etc... I'm siding with the cops on this one, and against the cops in the St. Paul shooting.
I already said I'm not buying excuses like that and that his criminal history is irrelevant. Resisting arrest isn't punishable by death. I do agree that this case and the Minnesota case aren't one in the same though.
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Alton's case isnt as cut and dry. You're dealing with a career violent criminal who wasnt even allowed to own a gun. That doesnt allow anyone to kill him but its ridiculous that a man who raped and beat people is now a martyr. A dumb cop helped do that
True... I'm not too sure what's up with the gun part. Did he have a gun or not?? Either way, he was pinned face first on the ground by at least 2 cops in the video, so I can't say I understand how the cops thought their safety or their lives were at risk while they were kneeling on the guys neck - not enough at risk to justifiably press a gun against the back the head of a prone man that they're on top of - and pull the trigger. Even if he maybe had a gun IN HIS POCKET, how did they figure he'd manage to get it out of his pocket and fire it in that position? The cops completely had the upper hand already. If that answer to that is some elaborate "what if" scenario, where perhaps he moves his knee that way and his arm that way, and IF the cop happened to slip at the time and lose his balance long enough for this dude to get the gun out of his pocket and then get a shot off with the maybe-gun, then I'm not buying that as an excuse at all. I don't think I get why this case is being looked at as maybe kinda sorta justifiable on the cops' part. To me, it looks like a pretty clear cut case of an unjustified shooting. I don't feel like Alton's criminal history is relevant in the slightest if we're talking about whether or not the cops were justified in killing him under those circumstances.
This was a shitbag criminal who was already allegedly brandishing a gun. He had a taser used on him, he continued to resist. They were attempting to restrain him and he was continuing to fight. If he'd thrown one off and had free access to his arm and pocket there would have potentially been dead cops. His criminal past (which I find very relevant and informative), and his present behavior (brandishing/threatening w/ a firearm and resisting) obviously presented a danger to the community and to the cops trying to secure him. Unless something completely damning of the cops comes to light, this was a case of an idiot getting exactly what he deserved, and society benefits from the trash being taken out. This case is 180 degrees different than the St. Paul shooting. I don't understand how anyone is attempting to portray this piece of shit as any kind of victim (except I guess he's the victim of his own bad behavior). He had been arrested for domestic violence, aggravated battery, weapons charges, and was a registered sex offender convicted of screwing a juvenile. I guess we're all operating with limited information, but from the information that has been presented, from witnesses, from video, etc... I'm siding with the cops on this one, and against the cops in the St. Paul shooting.
I already said I'm not buying excuses like that and that his criminal history is irrelevant. Resisting arrest isn't punishable by death. I do agree that this case and the Minnesota case aren't one in the same though.
We'll disagree that past behavior may be indicative of future behavior then. I see patterns rather than random occurrences. And I agree with you that resisting arrest isn't punishable by death. But if a cop is facing a threat to his life he is and should be able to defend himself. They didn't come out firing at him. They tried to restrain him. They tried to Taser him. They tried to subdue him. He continued to fight and to pose a threat. That is why he was shot. Not simply because he was resisting. Big difference.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
True but if you are a cop and are called to a scene and you were told that the suspect had a gun, wouldn't you have a bit of adrenaline pumping?
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Alton's case isnt as cut and dry. You're dealing with a career violent criminal who wasnt even allowed to own a gun. That doesnt allow anyone to kill him but its ridiculous that a man who raped and beat people is now a martyr. A dumb cop helped do that
True... I'm not too sure what's up with the gun part. Did he have a gun or not?? Either way, he was pinned face first on the ground by at least 2 cops in the video, so I can't say I understand how the cops thought their safety or their lives were at risk while they were kneeling on the guys neck - not enough at risk to justifiably press a gun against the back the head of a prone man that they're on top of - and pull the trigger. Even if he maybe had a gun IN HIS POCKET, how did they figure he'd manage to get it out of his pocket and fire it in that position? The cops completely had the upper hand already. If that answer to that is some elaborate "what if" scenario, where perhaps he moves his knee that way and his arm that way, and IF the cop happened to slip at the time and lose his balance long enough for this dude to get the gun out of his pocket and then get a shot off with the maybe-gun, then I'm not buying that as an excuse at all. I don't think I get why this case is being looked at as maybe kinda sorta justifiable on the cops' part. To me, it looks like a pretty clear cut case of an unjustified shooting. I don't feel like Alton's criminal history is relevant in the slightest if we're talking about whether or not the cops were justified in killing him under those circumstances.
This was a shitbag criminal who was already allegedly brandishing a gun. He had a taser used on him, he continued to resist. They were attempting to restrain him and he was continuing to fight. If he'd thrown one off and had free access to his arm and pocket there would have potentially been dead cops. His criminal past (which I find very relevant and informative), and his present behavior (brandishing/threatening w/ a firearm and resisting) obviously presented a danger to the community and to the cops trying to secure him. Unless something completely damning of the cops comes to light, this was a case of an idiot getting exactly what he deserved, and society benefits from the trash being taken out. This case is 180 degrees different than the St. Paul shooting. I don't understand how anyone is attempting to portray this piece of shit as any kind of victim (except I guess he's the victim of his own bad behavior). He had been arrested for domestic violence, aggravated battery, weapons charges, and was a registered sex offender convicted of screwing a juvenile. I guess we're all operating with limited information, but from the information that has been presented, from witnesses, from video, etc... I'm siding with the cops on this one, and against the cops in the St. Paul shooting.
I already said I'm not buying excuses like that and that his criminal history is irrelevant. Resisting arrest isn't punishable by death. I do agree that this case and the Minnesota case aren't one in the same though.
Resisting arrest isn't punishable by death, but going for your gun while Resisting....
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
Alton's case isnt as cut and dry. You're dealing with a career violent criminal who wasnt even allowed to own a gun. That doesnt allow anyone to kill him but its ridiculous that a man who raped and beat people is now a martyr. A dumb cop helped do that
True... I'm not too sure what's up with the gun part. Did he have a gun or not?? Either way, he was pinned face first on the ground by at least 2 cops in the video, so I can't say I understand how the cops thought their safety or their lives were at risk while they were kneeling on the guys neck - not enough at risk to justifiably press a gun against the back the head of a prone man that they're on top of - and pull the trigger. Even if he maybe had a gun IN HIS POCKET, how did they figure he'd manage to get it out of his pocket and fire it in that position? The cops completely had the upper hand already. If that answer to that is some elaborate "what if" scenario, where perhaps he moves his knee that way and his arm that way, and IF the cop happened to slip at the time and lose his balance long enough for this dude to get the gun out of his pocket and then get a shot off with the maybe-gun, then I'm not buying that as an excuse at all. I don't think I get why this case is being looked at as maybe kinda sorta justifiable on the cops' part. To me, it looks like a pretty clear cut case of an unjustified shooting. I don't feel like Alton's criminal history is relevant in the slightest if we're talking about whether or not the cops were justified in killing him under those circumstances.
This was a shitbag criminal who was already allegedly brandishing a gun. He had a taser used on him, he continued to resist. They were attempting to restrain him and he was continuing to fight. If he'd thrown one off and had free access to his arm and pocket there would have potentially been dead cops. His criminal past (which I find very relevant and informative), and his present behavior (brandishing/threatening w/ a firearm and resisting) obviously presented a danger to the community and to the cops trying to secure him. Unless something completely damning of the cops comes to light, this was a case of an idiot getting exactly what he deserved, and society benefits from the trash being taken out. This case is 180 degrees different than the St. Paul shooting. I don't understand how anyone is attempting to portray this piece of shit as any kind of victim (except I guess he's the victim of his own bad behavior). He had been arrested for domestic violence, aggravated battery, weapons charges, and was a registered sex offender convicted of screwing a juvenile. I guess we're all operating with limited information, but from the information that has been presented, from witnesses, from video, etc... I'm siding with the cops on this one, and against the cops in the St. Paul shooting.
I already said I'm not buying excuses like that and that his criminal history is irrelevant. Resisting arrest isn't punishable by death. I do agree that this case and the Minnesota case aren't one in the same though.
We'll disagree that past behavior may be indicative of future behavior then. I see patterns rather than random occurrences. And I agree with you that resisting arrest isn't punishable by death. But if a cop is facing a threat to his life he is and should be able to defend himself. They didn't come out firing at him. They tried to restrain him. They tried to Taser him. They tried to subdue him. He continued to fight and to pose a threat. That is why he was shot. Not simply because he was resisting. Big difference.
Yes. To all of this.
The greatest predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. And noooo... that doesn't mean we automatically assume the worst of everyone, but we definitely accept the worst for what it is when it's on display. And in this case... it was... again.
If the guy was reaching for his gun as the officers were trying to restrain him... there is nothing to discuss. If the guy wasn't... it was an execution and the cop who fired the gun should be held accountable.
Given all that transpired and the procedures and patience the cops afforded him prior to the shot... and at the risk of being wrong... I'm inclined to think he went for his gun.
^^^fair point for sure. Very tough situation. Its a hard job but cops have to be so careful not to cross that line and become the criminal
Yes
Ridiculous.
'No buts'.
So you're basically saying cops should eat a bullet rather than make a mistake deciphering intent when dealing with some guy breaking the law, physically resisting arrest, and trying to grab his gun.
^^^fair point for sure. Very tough situation. Its a hard job but cops have to be so careful not to cross that line and become the criminal
Yes
Ridiculous.
'No buts'.
So you're basically saying cops should eat a bullet rather than make a mistake deciphering intent when dealing with some guy breaking the law, physically resisting arrest, and trying to grab his gun.
Good gawd, man. F**king ridiculous.
Always on the defense. No that is not what I'm basically saying. Resisting arrest isn't punishable by death. Protocol for cops is you shoot to kill. There is something wrong with that mentality right there. Because there are too many deaths overall.
^^^fair point for sure. Very tough situation. Its a hard job but cops have to be so careful not to cross that line and become the criminal
Yes
Ridiculous.
'No buts'.
So you're basically saying cops should eat a bullet rather than make a mistake deciphering intent when dealing with some guy breaking the law, physically resisting arrest, and trying to grab his gun.
Good gawd, man. F**king ridiculous.
Always on the defense. No that is not what I'm basically saying. Resisting arrest isn't punishable by death. Protocol for cops is you shoot to kill. There is something wrong with that mentality right there. Because there are too many deaths overall.
The 'shoot to kill' isn't a derivative of a killer mentality- it's of a preservation mentality.
If I'm the child of a cop who is in a struggle with a career criminal who has ignored officer requests, shrugged off a taser, and wrestled my father to the ground... I'm kind of hoping my dad takes every precaution to ensure he comes home to me.
If I'm the father... I don't want to shoot some jackass who's physically resisting arrest, but would most assuredly resort to lethal force if, after all prior steps had been taken, I felt at risk. And... I'd want people to support me as I was placed in an awful situation keeping them safe as they sit cozy inside their homes.
That idiot had every opportunity to comply peacefully and accept what was going to happen. The day people comply with police is the day we'll stop seeing so many shootings. Talk about renewed training and newer tactics all you want... just don't forget to include the other side's part in these affairs. F**k. How hard is it? How hard is it, as stupid as you might be, to realize the gig is up and comply with police orders?
^^^fair point for sure. Very tough situation. Its a hard job but cops have to be so careful not to cross that line and become the criminal
Yes
Ridiculous.
'No buts'.
So you're basically saying cops should eat a bullet rather than make a mistake deciphering intent when dealing with some guy breaking the law, physically resisting arrest, and trying to grab his gun.
Good gawd, man. F**king ridiculous.
Always on the defense. No that is not what I'm basically saying. Resisting arrest isn't punishable by death. Protocol for cops is you shoot to kill. There is something wrong with that mentality right there. Because there are too many deaths overall.
Shoot to injure doesn't make much sense
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
Just a quick question. How is it that multiple police officers found it so hard to restrict the arms of a single man so as to ensure that he was not capable of reaching for a gun? Surely this should have been their first priority, securing his weapon
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Somebody posted something earlier that if the police stopped hassling black people doing daily things... this might be good for all. I can't help but think this nugget of advice is something to embrace.
Generally speaking, the routine pullovers gone bad are of the grotesque variety. Cops coming to a scene where someone is brandishing a weapon are tolerable, but these 'mountains out of mole hills' are troublesome and hard to digest.
And now, with all that's happened, tell me more cops aren't going to be extra defensive when detaining a black person.
Geez. Challenging times.
I just get bothered at how much doubt has been placed on the witness. Why do we doubt her version of events so much? I think we should be asking what does she have to gain? And what does the cop have to gain or lose by his telling of how it went down?
She came across as a calm, cool, matter of fact witness to me.....all while the cop was screaming (mostly to himself) and losing his shit. It's a pretty easy call whose version of events sway me at this point. I'm having trouble figuring out what the cop could say that would make me think any different.
And I really doubt there are too many cop haters here. I don't hate them. I'm deeply saddened by the cops that were murdered last night. Nobody deserves that.
I personally just want to see them held accountable when they fuck up. Which seems very rare. I also want to see them do a better job. They need to be better trained and paid better. That should help attract better people and allow PD's to turn down shittier candidates.
And what is wrong with wanting the whole story? I did not defend or criticize the cop. Just stated we only have 1 side of the story, with a video of after the incident. If you're against having all the facts before making a judgment, then there's something wrong with you.
I'd also agree that it's time to pay the profession and honour it. Make standards exceptionally high and correspond with a compensation package that encourages the best people we have. Police work should be held in the highest of regards. Forces should be able to recruit... not accept live bodies that are remotely fit and do not possess criminal records.
And why was that even brought up, I haven't seen anyone accusing this latest shooting victim of anything? All I've seen on here so far are protests to the suggestion of waiting until the full story comes out. If we believed everything that came out the first few days with Brown we'd all still believe he had his hands up yelling don't shoot, but that wasn't true. I haven't seen anyone saying leave the cop alone he's innocent, but just suggesting to wait until we hear the whole story. Why would you not want all the facts? Seems pretty irresponsible to me.
If the girlfriend's statements turns out to be true, then the cop deserves to spend a lot of time in jail. But he doesn't deserve a chance to give his side or collect evidence first? That's not a country I'd want to live in, sounds more like North Korea to me.
To be clear when I was asking questions I wasn't denouncing the witness at all, hell I wouldn't give anything to have been her in that situation, but being a critical thinker I have to wonder as to why she would have grabbed and started recording or moving around or doing anything while an obvious distraught cop was pointing a gun inside the car, screaming at her and himself while my child was in the backseat after just putting 4 bullets in her bf for apparently no reason
now let me give credit where credit is due your post I just responded to here was damn spot on
I've personally withheld comment on the Alton Sterling killing because I really can't say it wasn't justified. It looked terrible but if he was in fact trying to get his gun I don't really see what other choice the cops had. And they tried to at least taze him first.....something a lot of other victims were not afforded.
It's the ugly side of the amount of guns in the US. I can't blame some cops for being a little nervous walking up to a car when you have no idea what they might be carrying.
He probably was a good guy, and it is a shame this happened. No one has said he deserved this
It would add to that shame if it turns out there was a legitimate explanation but this cop has already moved due to numerous death threats and forced to quit his job.
It is entirely possible the girlfriend may be 100% accurate in her account and the cop had some racially motivated reason to just shoot him. Seems doubtful he'd decide to do that at a traffic stop with 2 other people in the car, but yeah possible.
Its possible the victim was nervous about being pulled over and through his nervousness was noncompliant and the cop over reacted?-Sure, its happened before.
Or perhaps the cop didn't hear him declare he had a weapon and then freaked out when he saw it. Would the cop be at fault for over reacting? Absolutely. Would I call him a murderer and declare open season again-probably not.
Is it possible the girlfriend made up her statements? I actually don't think she did, but its entirely possible. There's a thousand other scenarios that could have happened, and my point is we really have no idea.
Even OJ Simpson would look innocent if we only heard his side (and apparently just a poor version of the other side as well), so why all the rush? The truth will eventually come out.
Some of you will disagree, but I feel bad for Darren Wilson. He had his family received deaths threats to the point he had to relocate, his career was destroyed, his name and image will always be tarnished, all while having a baby. This was a result of lies that were spread because I believe he was 100% justified in his shooting once the facts were out. Why would anyone want to repeat this?
I cant remember anyone defending that cop in SC after that video came out of shooting the guy in the back. I believe it would be the same outcome if after all the facts are in it looks just as bad for this cop, but we just don't know enough yet.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/appalled-minnesota-governor-says-philando-castile-would-be-alive-if-n605496
The cops spoke to him- he disregarded them.
The cops tasted him- he resisted.
The cops wrestled him to the ground- he fought them as they did it.
Then... this is where things get dicey. At this point, if he was going for his gun because he could get to it... I don't blame the officers one bit. At all.
Laughably, you suggest that even if he could get his gun at that point after all the other law enforcement steps had occurred the officers should have... ? ... I don't know... go for a chicken wing hold and see how that might work?
Get serious. A cop hesitating at that moment might have made the difference between life and death for the officers called to duty.
If they were hell bent on killing the black man... I highly doubt they would have wrestled him to the ground to take a shot point blank- way too much risk.
I could be wrong. Even still... at this point... I'll give the officers the benefit of the doubt over the violent sex offender who was tussling with them on video.
Resisting arrest isn't punishable by death.
I do agree that this case and the Minnesota case aren't one in the same though.
Pretty important enough to repeat.
But a cop is allowed to defend his life when a scumbag is trying to take it.
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we will find a way, we will find our place
The greatest predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. And noooo... that doesn't mean we automatically assume the worst of everyone, but we definitely accept the worst for what it is when it's on display. And in this case... it was... again.
If the guy was reaching for his gun as the officers were trying to restrain him... there is nothing to discuss. If the guy wasn't... it was an execution and the cop who fired the gun should be held accountable.
Given all that transpired and the procedures and patience the cops afforded him prior to the shot... and at the risk of being wrong... I'm inclined to think he went for his gun.
'No buts'.
So you're basically saying cops should eat a bullet rather than make a mistake deciphering intent when dealing with some guy breaking the law, physically resisting arrest, and trying to grab his gun.
Good gawd, man. F**king ridiculous.
If I'm the child of a cop who is in a struggle with a career criminal who has ignored officer requests, shrugged off a taser, and wrestled my father to the ground... I'm kind of hoping my dad takes every precaution to ensure he comes home to me.
If I'm the father... I don't want to shoot some jackass who's physically resisting arrest, but would most assuredly resort to lethal force if, after all prior steps had been taken, I felt at risk. And... I'd want people to support me as I was placed in an awful situation keeping them safe as they sit cozy inside their homes.
That idiot had every opportunity to comply peacefully and accept what was going to happen. The day people comply with police is the day we'll stop seeing so many shootings. Talk about renewed training and newer tactics all you want... just don't forget to include the other side's part in these affairs. F**k. How hard is it? How hard is it, as stupid as you might be, to realize the gig is up and comply with police orders?
we will find a way, we will find our place