The Baton Rouge video is more evidence of the Militarization of some police forces. All that left over Iraq/Afghan gear is now being used against our own citizens.
Can we not learn anything from history?
"The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
If the rate of cops killing whites was the same as cops killing blacks, then we'd have a different story, the problem is, cops kill blacks at about 3x the rate they kill whites. And maybe I made an assumption about race when you referred to the people protesting and gang violence.
More whites were shot and killed by the police then blacks last year. Where are you coming up with more blacks were shot and killed?
I didn't say more blacks were shot than whites. You're three times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're black than if you're white.
Unarmed black men are actually 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men.
wow that's a pretty insane statistic. blacks are also 13% of the overall population but account for 40% of the total number of people in prison. craziness. Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites.
Can we be more careful about citing national statistics when discussing race and crime? Our cities are demographically different than the nation as a whole. I think it would be more informative to look at these correlations on a micro level, if we really wanted to understand reality. While on a national level, these lopsided numbers may be true, but if you examined a single city or a neighborhood in a city, the numbers may tell a whole other story. The numbers in different parts of rural America or the suburbs will tell another. We have 325 million people in this country, and none of our realities are the same.
Hey I m not trying to defend my doctorate, I just posted some national statistics. If you d like to break it down further then go for it.
I ask the question because I was listening to a sociologist discuss race and violent crime in NY, and the numbers just did not support the same kind of racial injustice when looked at locally. There was no imbalance at all when looking at the racial profile of convicted violent offenders vs. unfounded stops and searches neighborhood by neighborhood.
The most interesting statistic was the small number of actual people committing the majority of the crimes. Innocent people are basically being held hostage in their own homes through the fear and intimidation of a relatively small number of criminal gangs running their streets, and the sociologist's main point is that these gangs are running their neighborhoods into the ground while we debate and mostly overblow police tactics that may or may not be an institutional problem everywhere. The hard numbers, the ones that closely reflect reality in specific neighborhoods, demand that we solve the problem of violent crime in black and Hispanic neighborhoods. The innocent people who live in them deserve to live in peace. How can one begin to raise himself or herself up out of poverty when it's terrifying to even wait at the bus stop to get to work or school?
And all while she was making these points, which none of us could easily argue with, the person interviewing her could only fall back on the "yeah but isn't it racist to deny that we have a problem with police?" The interviewer came across as totally disingenuous because the sociologist was basically making the argument to help these neighborhoods. She was not denying race as the blame for anything. She was just suggesting that the culture warriors get out of the trenches they've dug themselves into because the people in our cities cannot wait while we sort out our philosophical differences.
The sociologist is Healthier MacDonald and the book is War on Cops, a book brianlux mentioned in one of the multiple threads on this subject. He seemed curious and suspicious of its thesis, but I'm not so much after hearing her actually talk. I don't want to cite numbers here because I don't remember them exactly and don't want to get them wrong. But I do want to read her whole book and learn more of what she found in her studies because I found her argument -- and the micro-data -- compelling. If I read the whole book and come away with something different, then the worst I am is willing to explore a different point of view.
technically an unarmed man was killed by police... what would you have done?
He couldn't tell the difference between a hand and a gun...Trigger happy cop there...
i'm sure you would have been completely calm and waited patiently to get a good view to find out... with your life on the line... at night... after a 100mph chase... in which he says you will have to kill him while he acts aggressively towards you gesturing as if he has a firearm.... I'm sure you would have instantly been able to realize it was a gesture and not an actual gun
this is an example of the judgmental Monday morning quarterbacking that drives me nuts...
technically an unarmed man was killed by police... what would you have done?
He couldn't tell the difference between a hand and a gun...Trigger happy cop there...
i'm sure you would have been completely calm and waited patiently to get a good view to find out... with your life on the line... at night... after a 100mph chase... in which he says you will have to kill him while he acts aggressively towards you gesturing as if he has a firearm.... I'm sure you would have instantly been able to realize it was a gesture and not an actual gun
this is an example of the judgmental Monday morning quarterbacking that drives me nuts...
I appreciate your questions about how would we react. I am beginning to wonder if a kind of PTSD has become a problem for some of our cops working in these high stress areas. If I had to work through these dangerous situations, I know I would have a nervous breakdown before too long.
technically an unarmed man was killed by police... what would you have done?
He couldn't tell the difference between a hand and a gun...Trigger happy cop there...
i'm sure you would have been completely calm and waited patiently to get a good view to find out... with your life on the line... at night... after a 100mph chase... in which he says you will have to kill him while he acts aggressively towards you gesturing as if he has a firearm.... I'm sure you would have instantly been able to realize it was a gesture and not an actual gun
this is an example of the judgmental Monday morning quarterbacking that drives me nuts...
I wouldn't waste your time. These types would suggest cops do at least three matrix moves avoiding bullets fired at them before looking to defend their lives.
technically an unarmed man was killed by police... what would you have done?
He couldn't tell the difference between a hand and a gun...Trigger happy cop there...
i'm sure you would have been completely calm and waited patiently to get a good view to find out... with your life on the line... at night... after a 100mph chase... in which he says you will have to kill him while he acts aggressively towards you gesturing as if he has a firearm.... I'm sure you would have instantly been able to realize it was a gesture and not an actual gun
this is an example of the judgmental Monday morning quarterbacking that drives me nuts...
if you gesture towards a cop in a threatening manner, gun or not, the outcome is your fault, not the cop's.
technically an unarmed man was killed by police... what would you have done?
He couldn't tell the difference between a hand and a gun...Trigger happy cop there...
i'm sure you would have been completely calm and waited patiently to get a good view to find out... with your life on the line... at night... after a 100mph chase... in which he says you will have to kill him while he acts aggressively towards you gesturing as if he has a firearm.... I'm sure you would have instantly been able to realize it was a gesture and not an actual gun
this is an example of the judgmental Monday morning quarterbacking that drives me nuts...
I wouldn't waste your time. These types would suggest cops do at least three matrix moves avoiding bullets fired at them before looking to defend their lives.
Just stupid.
Not true. Not true. T-1000 maneuvers should be employed long before Matrix moves.
My that warrants for a new government.....that sucks I keep getting told the same... I'm glad I'm not in America Quite like being in sand groper land....
If the rate of cops killing whites was the same as cops killing blacks, then we'd have a different story, the problem is, cops kill blacks at about 3x the rate they kill whites. And maybe I made an assumption about race when you referred to the people protesting and gang violence.
More whites were shot and killed by the police then blacks last year. Where are you coming up with more blacks were shot and killed?
I didn't say more blacks were shot than whites. You're three times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're black than if you're white.
Unarmed black men are actually 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men.
wow that's a pretty insane statistic. blacks are also 13% of the overall population but account for 40% of the total number of people in prison. craziness. Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites.
you can also look at that and wonder why ? are these people committing more crimes than whites ?
Godfather.
UNARMED black men 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men. It doesn't matter who is committing crime when you consider this stat.
An unarmed black man going for a cops gun and is shot will be reported as "unarmed". So this whole thing sbout unarmed men getting shot needs to be taken with a grain of salt. As mentioned in a previous post, there's higher crime in poor communities. Many black communities happen to be poor.
Here is exactly why anyone who says "open season on blacks" , or anything that eludes to that, will immediately be dismissed by me. Not saying you have-haven't scrolled through to see the list of those who did- just adding to the conversation here. With about 42,000,000 blacks in this country, 301 were shot and killed by police in 2015. That same year 42 cops were shot and killed out of 600,000. That means if you are black you have a 0.0007% chance of being shot by a cop. But if you're a cop you have 0.007% chance of being shot, that is 10 times more likely. Why isn't anyone crying "open season" on cops?
If the rate of cops killing whites was the same as cops killing blacks, then we'd have a different story, the problem is, cops kill blacks at about 3x the rate they kill whites. And maybe I made an assumption about race when you referred to the people protesting and gang violence.
More whites were shot and killed by the police then blacks last year. Where are you coming up with more blacks were shot and killed?
I didn't say more blacks were shot than whites. You're three times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're black than if you're white.
Unarmed black men are actually 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men.
wow that's a pretty insane statistic. blacks are also 13% of the overall population but account for 40% of the total number of people in prison. craziness. Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites.
you can also look at that and wonder why ? are these people committing more crimes than whites ?
Godfather.
UNARMED black men 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men. It doesn't matter who is committing crime when you consider this stat.
An unarmed black man going for a cops gun and is shot will be reported as "unarmed". So this whole thing sbout unarmed men getting shot needs to be taken with a grain of salt. As mentioned in a previous post, there's higher crime in poor communities. Many black communities happen to be poor.
Here is exactly why anyone who says "open season on blacks" , or anything that eludes to that, will immediately be dismissed by me. Not saying you have-haven't scrolled through to see the list of those who did- just adding to the conversation here. With about 42,000,000 blacks in this country, 301 were shot and killed by police in 2015. That same year 42 cops were shot and killed out of 600,000. That means if you are black you have a 0.0007% chance of being shot by a cop. But if you're a cop you have 0.007% chance of being shot, that is 10 times more likely. Why isn't anyone crying "open season" on cops?
Again... you won't get a sound response to this post.
If the rate of cops killing whites was the same as cops killing blacks, then we'd have a different story, the problem is, cops kill blacks at about 3x the rate they kill whites. And maybe I made an assumption about race when you referred to the people protesting and gang violence.
More whites were shot and killed by the police then blacks last year. Where are you coming up with more blacks were shot and killed?
I didn't say more blacks were shot than whites. You're three times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're black than if you're white.
Unarmed black men are actually 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men.
wow that's a pretty insane statistic. blacks are also 13% of the overall population but account for 40% of the total number of people in prison. craziness. Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites.
you can also look at that and wonder why ? are these people committing more crimes than whites ?
Godfather.
UNARMED black men 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men. It doesn't matter who is committing crime when you consider this stat.
An unarmed black man going for a cops gun and is shot will be reported as "unarmed". So this whole thing sbout unarmed men getting shot needs to be taken with a grain of salt. As mentioned in a previous post, there's higher crime in poor communities. Many black communities happen to be poor.
Here is exactly why anyone who says "open season on blacks" , or anything that eludes to that, will immediately be dismissed by me. Not saying you have-haven't scrolled through to see the list of those who did- just adding to the conversation here. With about 42,000,000 blacks in this country, 301 were shot and killed by police in 2015. That same year 42 cops were shot and killed out of 600,000. That means if you are black you have a 0.0007% chance of being shot by a cop. But if you're a cop you have 0.007% chance of being shot, that is 10 times more likely. Why isn't anyone crying "open season" on cops?
You're comparing two different things and trying to make a reverse analogy. Blacks are killed by cops at a much higher rate than they are whites. It seems like a lot of people are just fine with the government taking away freedoms and rights of others as long as they see it benefit themselves in some way.
He ignores your assertion regarding higher crime rates in predominantly black neighbourhoods... which, naturally, leads to more situations between cops and black people: a numerically unlevel setting that lends itself to producing unlevel statistics.
Then tosses out the 'giving away freedom and rights' classic. Exactly how it fits with regards to what you said... I'm not sure (he'd have to elaborate)?
If the rate of cops killing whites was the same as cops killing blacks, then we'd have a different story, the problem is, cops kill blacks at about 3x the rate they kill whites. And maybe I made an assumption about race when you referred to the people protesting and gang violence.
More whites were shot and killed by the police then blacks last year. Where are you coming up with more blacks were shot and killed?
I didn't say more blacks were shot than whites. You're three times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're black than if you're white.
Unarmed black men are actually 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men.
wow that's a pretty insane statistic. blacks are also 13% of the overall population but account for 40% of the total number of people in prison. craziness. Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites.
you can also look at that and wonder why ? are these people committing more crimes than whites ?
Godfather.
UNARMED black men 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men. It doesn't matter who is committing crime when you consider this stat.
An unarmed black man going for a cops gun and is shot will be reported as "unarmed". So this whole thing sbout unarmed men getting shot needs to be taken with a grain of salt. As mentioned in a previous post, there's higher crime in poor communities. Many black communities happen to be poo
Here is exactly why anyone who says "open season on blacks" , or anything that eludes to that, will immediately be dismissed by me. Not saying you have-haven't scrolled through to see the list of those who did- just adding to the conversation here. With about 42,000,000 blacks in this country, 301 were shot and killed by police in 2015. That same year 42 cops were shot and killed out of 600,000. That means if you are black you have a 0.0007% chance of being shot by a cop. But if you're a cop you have 0.007% chance of being shot, that is 10 times more likely. Why isn't anyone crying "open season" on cops?
Again... you won't get a sound response to this post.
Why not? Btw, it helps when one doesn't refer to responders as "nitwits" or "these types". One is more likely to get sound replies to sound requests.
If the rate of cops killing whites was the same as cops killing blacks, then we'd have a different story, the problem is, cops kill blacks at about 3x the rate they kill whites. And maybe I made an assumption about race when you referred to the people protesting and gang violence.
More whites were shot and killed by the police then blacks last year. Where are you coming up with more blacks were shot and killed?
I didn't say more blacks were shot than whites. You're three times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're black than if you're white.
Unarmed black men are actually 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men.
wow that's a pretty insane statistic. blacks are also 13% of the overall population but account for 40% of the total number of people in prison. craziness. Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites.
you can also look at that and wonder why ? are these people committing more crimes than whites ?
Godfather.
UNARMED black men 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men. It doesn't matter who is committing crime when you consider this stat.
An unarmed black man going for a cops gun and is shot will be reported as "unarmed". So this whole thing sbout unarmed men getting shot needs to be taken with a grain of salt. As mentioned in a previous post, there's higher crime in poor communities. Many black communities happen to be poo
Here is exactly why anyone who says "open season on blacks" , or anything that eludes to that, will immediately be dismissed by me. Not saying you have-haven't scrolled through to see the list of those who did- just adding to the conversation here. With about 42,000,000 blacks in this country, 301 were shot and killed by police in 2015. That same year 42 cops were shot and killed out of 600,000. That means if you are black you have a 0.0007% chance of being shot by a cop. But if you're a cop you have 0.007% chance of being shot, that is 10 times more likely. Why isn't anyone crying "open season" on cops?
Again... you won't get a sound response to this post.
Why not? Btw, it helps when one doesn't refer to responders as "nitwits" or "these types". One is more likely to get sound replies to sound requests.
Why not? Because it's too challenging. It's much easier to point fingers at the point of the problem (cops shooting black people) than to look at the entire scope of the problem.
Everywhere in the world where poverty exists, crime manifests itself. Impoverished neighbourhoods in America feature crime. As such, cops are drawn to these neighbourhoods and encounters occur between cops and black people on a much more frequent occurrence than they do with whites in suburban areas.
Why is there not a proportionately even distribution of whites and blacks in suburban areas and inner city project areas? What has happened in the USA where we can acknowledge concentrated poor 'black' communities? How has this happened?
I'm not saying there are no racist cops and that there have been no legitimate cases of cop abuse. I'm saying the problem is much more profound than many care to admit (those types).
If the rate of cops killing whites was the same as cops killing blacks, then we'd have a different story, the problem is, cops kill blacks at about 3x the rate they kill whites. And maybe I made an assumption about race when you referred to the people protesting and gang violence.
More whites were shot and killed by the police then blacks last year. Where are you coming up with more blacks were shot and killed?
I didn't say more blacks were shot than whites. You're three times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're black than if you're white.
Unarmed black men are actually 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men.
wow that's a pretty insane statistic. blacks are also 13% of the overall population but account for 40% of the total number of people in prison. craziness. Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites.
you can also look at that and wonder why ? are these people committing more crimes than whites ?
Godfather.
UNARMED black men 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men. It doesn't matter who is committing crime when you consider this stat.
An unarmed black man going for a cops gun and is shot will be reported as "unarmed". So this whole thing sbout unarmed men getting shot needs to be taken with a grain of salt. As mentioned in a previous post, there's higher crime in poor communities. Many black communities happen to be poor.
Here is exactly why anyone who says "open season on blacks" , or anything that eludes to that, will immediately be dismissed by me. Not saying you have-haven't scrolled through to see the list of those who did- just adding to the conversation here. With about 42,000,000 blacks in this country, 301 were shot and killed by police in 2015. That same year 42 cops were shot and killed out of 600,000. That means if you are black you have a 0.0007% chance of being shot by a cop. But if you're a cop you have 0.007% chance of being shot, that is 10 times more likely. Why isn't anyone crying "open season" on cops?
You're comparing two different things and trying to make a reverse analogy. Blacks are killed by cops at a much higher rate than they are whites. It seems like a lot of people are just fine with the government taking away freedoms and rights of others as long as they see it benefit themselves in some way.
I don't think I am comparing 2 different things. We're talking about groups of people being wrongfully targeted and killed. If you are a cop you are 10 times more likely to be targeted and killed than if you are black (and that is even assuming that 100% of black deaths are unwarranted) if you take into consideration the justified self defense killings that number is much, much higher. Data has been displayed here and similar threads discussing black deaths. Data is rarely helpful when taken out of context or not displayed in full. Well you can find more data on the same FBI website that has been quoted multiple times that states blacks are the offenders in 89% of black/white violent crimes. And that blacks account for nearly 40% of violent crime, so why is it surprising to anyone that they account for only 26% of police shootings despite being 13% of the population? At the very least seems like the data hardly justifies calling this an "epidemic" or"open season" or supporting the claim that cops have a race problem. And how is any normal person benefitting if your claims of police brutality are true? I find it pretty offensive that you think I would be fine with police murders and that I do benefit from it some how.
If the rate of cops killing whites was the same as cops killing blacks, then we'd have a different story, the problem is, cops kill blacks at about 3x the rate they kill whites. And maybe I made an assumption about race when you referred to the people protesting and gang violence.
More whites were shot and killed by the police then blacks last year. Where are you coming up with more blacks were shot and killed?
I didn't say more blacks were shot than whites. You're three times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're black than if you're white.
Unarmed black men are actually 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men.
wow that's a pretty insane statistic. blacks are also 13% of the overall population but account for 40% of the total number of people in prison. craziness. Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites.
you can also look at that and wonder why ? are these people committing more crimes than whites ?
Godfather.
UNARMED black men 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men. It doesn't matter who is committing crime when you consider this stat.
An unarmed black man going for a cops gun and is shot will be reported as "unarmed". So this whole thing sbout unarmed men getting shot needs to be taken with a grain of salt. As mentioned in a previous post, there's higher crime in poor communities. Many black communities happen to be poo
Here is exactly why anyone who says "open season on blacks" , or anything that eludes to that, will immediately be dismissed by me. Not saying you have-haven't scrolled through to see the list of those who did- just adding to the conversation here. With about 42,000,000 blacks in this country, 301 were shot and killed by police in 2015. That same year 42 cops were shot and killed out of 600,000. That means if you are black you have a 0.0007% chance of being shot by a cop. But if you're a cop you have 0.007% chance of being shot, that is 10 times more likely. Why isn't anyone crying "open season" on cops?
Again... you won't get a sound response to this post.
Why not? Btw, it helps when one doesn't refer to responders as "nitwits" or "these types". One is more likely to get sound replies to sound requests.
Why not? Because it's too challenging. It's much easier to point fingers at the point of the problem (cops shooting black people) than to look at the entire scope of the problem.
Everywhere in the world where poverty exists, crime manifests itself. Impoverished neighbourhoods in America feature crime. As such, cops are drawn to these neighbourhoods and encounters occur between cops and black people on a much more frequent occurrence than they do with whites in suburban areas.
Why is there not a proportionately even distribution of whites and blacks in suburban areas and inner city project areas? What has happened in the USA where we can acknowledge concentrated poor 'black' communities? How has this happened?
I'm not saying there are no racist cops and that there have been no legitimate cases of cop abuse. I'm saying the problem is much more profound than many care to admit (those types).
Good points. Perhaps if more questions were framed in such a manner, with more emphasis on socioeconomic development (or lack thereof), as opposed to having more of a racial bent... we could have one of those discussions that would be more to everybody's liking. That was a well-constructed post, thirty.
I agree that the problem is much more profound than many would care to admit.
If the rate of cops killing whites was the same as cops killing blacks, then we'd have a different story, the problem is, cops kill blacks at about 3x the rate they kill whites. And maybe I made an assumption about race when you referred to the people protesting and gang violence.
More whites were shot and killed by the police then blacks last year. Where are you coming up with more blacks were shot and killed?
I didn't say more blacks were shot than whites. You're three times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're black than if you're white.
Unarmed black men are actually 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men.
wow that's a pretty insane statistic. blacks are also 13% of the overall population but account for 40% of the total number of people in prison. craziness. Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites.
you can also look at that and wonder why ? are these people committing more crimes than whites ?
Godfather.
UNARMED black men 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men. It doesn't matter who is committing crime when you consider this stat.
An unarmed black man going for a cops gun and is shot will be reported as "unarmed". So this whole thing sbout unarmed men getting shot needs to be taken with a grain of salt. As mentioned in a previous post, there's higher crime in poor communities. Many black communities happen to be poo
Here is exactly why anyone who says "open season on blacks" , or anything that eludes to that, will immediately be dismissed by me. Not saying you have-haven't scrolled through to see the list of those who did- just adding to the conversation here. With about 42,000,000 blacks in this country, 301 were shot and killed by police in 2015. That same year 42 cops were shot and killed out of 600,000. That means if you are black you have a 0.0007% chance of being shot by a cop. But if you're a cop you have 0.007% chance of being shot, that is 10 times more likely. Why isn't anyone crying "open season" on cops?
Again... you won't get a sound response to this post.
Why not? Btw, it helps when one doesn't refer to responders as "nitwits" or "these types". One is more likely to get sound replies to sound requests.
Why not? Because it's too challenging. It's much easier to point fingers at the point of the problem (cops shooting black people) than to look at the entire scope of the problem.
Everywhere in the world where poverty exists, crime manifests itself. Impoverished neighbourhoods in America feature crime. As such, cops are drawn to these neighbourhoods and encounters occur between cops and black people on a much more frequent occurrence than they do with whites in suburban areas.
Why is there not a proportionately even distribution of whites and blacks in suburban areas and inner city project areas? What has happened in the USA where we can acknowledge concentrated poor 'black' communities? How has this happened?
I'm not saying there are no racist cops and that there have been no legitimate cases of cop abuse. I'm saying the problem is much more profound than many care to admit (those types).
I agree with this completely. Like I said before, it's a class issue, not a race issue. unfortunately, white people ARE the cause of the class issue for the most part. We opressed these minorities into poverty situations (black people in America, Aboriginals in Canada, etc), and poverty leads to crime. It really is that simple (in addition to my second last paragraph below). You close the class gap, crime goes down. But you can't do that the way America is headed. The class gap is getting wider and wider all the time.
Do I think there's more racism in America than there is in Canada? Nope. Just live in Winnipeg and talk to anyone over the age of 50 and a good proportion will call Aboriginals names and blame their situation on themselves.
And in Canada, for the most part, we don't have all of these oppressed poor people walking around with guns.
Winnipeg, as poor and racist as it can be, has about the same number of shootings in one year as Chicago does in one weekend. Yes, Chicago has 3 times the population. But 30 times the shootings.
If the rate of cops killing whites was the same as cops killing blacks, then we'd have a different story, the problem is, cops kill blacks at about 3x the rate they kill whites. And maybe I made an assumption about race when you referred to the people protesting and gang violence.
More whites were shot and killed by the police then blacks last year. Where are you coming up with more blacks were shot and killed?
I didn't say more blacks were shot than whites. You're three times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're black than if you're white.
Unarmed black men are actually 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men.
wow that's a pretty insane statistic. blacks are also 13% of the overall population but account for 40% of the total number of people in prison. craziness. Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites.
you can also look at that and wonder why ? are these people committing more crimes than whites ?
Godfather.
UNARMED black men 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men. It doesn't matter who is committing crime when you consider this stat.
An unarmed black man going for a cops gun and is shot will be reported as "unarmed". So this whole thing sbout unarmed men getting shot needs to be taken with a grain of salt. As mentioned in a previous post, there's higher crime in poor communities. Many black communities happen to be poo
Here is exactly why anyone who says "open season on blacks" , or anything that eludes to that, will immediately be dismissed by me. Not saying you have-haven't scrolled through to see the list of those who did- just adding to the conversation here. With about 42,000,000 blacks in this country, 301 were shot and killed by police in 2015. That same year 42 cops were shot and killed out of 600,000. That means if you are black you have a 0.0007% chance of being shot by a cop. But if you're a cop you have 0.007% chance of being shot, that is 10 times more likely. Why isn't anyone crying "open season" on cops?
Again... you won't get a sound response to this post.
Why not? Btw, it helps when one doesn't refer to responders as "nitwits" or "these types". One is more likely to get sound replies to sound requests.
Why not? Because it's too challenging. It's much easier to point fingers at the point of the problem (cops shooting black people) than to look at the entire scope of the problem.
Everywhere in the world where poverty exists, crime manifests itself. Impoverished neighbourhoods in America feature crime. As such, cops are drawn to these neighbourhoods and encounters occur between cops and black people on a much more frequent occurrence than they do with whites in suburban areas.
Why is there not a proportionately even distribution of whites and blacks in suburban areas and inner city project areas? What has happened in the USA where we can acknowledge concentrated poor 'black' communities? How has this happened?
I'm not saying there are no racist cops and that there have been no legitimate cases of cop abuse. I'm saying the problem is much more profound than many care to admit (those types).
Good points. Perhaps if more questions were framed in such a manner, with more emphasis on socioeconomic development (or lack thereof), as opposed to having more of a racial bent... we could have one of those discussions that would be more to everybody's liking. That was a well-constructed post, thirty.
I agree that the problem is much more profound than many would care to admit.
Thanks.
I'm glad we can see things the same way. Thanks as well for demanding I elaborate before jumping down my throat.
But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.
Ehh. It's not all racism. Let's not get carried away.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.
because of the oppression of them ever since they were bought and brought here. yes, it does all lead back to racism, but the shootings are not, in my opinion, a direct result of racism.
But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.
because of the oppression of them ever since they were bought and brought here. yes, it does all lead back to racism, but the shootings are not, in my opinion, a direct result of racism.
There is a pretty clear correlation between the two though (and in some cases it really is a direct connection, depending on the shooting). How direct do you need it to be? The whole thing comes back to racism, whether or not the road back is the short cut or the scenic route. The conversation IS about race and racism.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.
because of the oppression of them ever since they were bought and brought here. yes, it does all lead back to racism, but the shootings are not, in my opinion, a direct result of racism.
There is a pretty clear correlation between the two though (and in some cases it really is a direct connection, depending on the shooting). How direct do you need it to be? The whole thing comes back to racism, whether or not the road back is the short cut or the scenic route. The conversation IS about race and racism.
I would agree much of it can be traced back to racism. I don't believe the current level of racism is nearly as high as some claim it to be. And as pointed out most of the shootings are a result of poverty and high crime in poverty. Modern day racism has little to nothing to do with with that because I believe it exists in such a small level it doesn't have a major impact. Yes you can find exceptions, just like I can find black leaders making racist quotes too. But in today's world much of society goes out of the way to help the minority's first, in schools, job market etc. But I could buy the argument it's tied to racism because even though they may have the same opportunities today, their grandparents didn't. And if you are not educated, it is more likely your kids will not be either. So these high crime poverty neighborhoods are the offsprings of racism 100 years ago, but not today. So in my opinion there's not an epidemic of racist cops, but a poverty cycle in society that, among several other factors, help contribute to high crime and poor neighborhoods.
But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.
because of the oppression of them ever since they were bought and brought here. yes, it does all lead back to racism, but the shootings are not, in my opinion, a direct result of racism.
There is a pretty clear correlation between the two though (and in some cases it really is a direct connection, depending on the shooting). How direct do you need it to be? The whole thing comes back to racism, whether or not the road back is the short cut or the scenic route. The conversation IS about race and racism.
it needs to be direct because it's quite different to say "white cops shoot black men because they are racists" than it is to say "black men are by far the majority of criminals in this country, because of oppression and racism going back 200 years, so by thoses statistics, of course they are going to be the majority of the ones involved in conflict with law enforcement".
the first statement tells us it's a cop problem. the second statement tells us it's a socio economic problem.
If we want to really solve the problem, distinguishing the two is, to me, obviously paramount.
But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.
because of the oppression of them ever since they were bought and brought here. yes, it does all lead back to racism, but the shootings are not, in my opinion, a direct result of racism.
There is a pretty clear correlation between the two though (and in some cases it really is a direct connection, depending on the shooting). How direct do you need it to be? The whole thing comes back to racism, whether or not the road back is the short cut or the scenic route. The conversation IS about race and racism.
Many of the shootings, in my mind, are a survival response on the part of officers. There are some cases where general intolerance, insensitivity, and a predisposition to assume the worst has occurred (feel free to call this racism).
But again... don't place the burden of responsibility on officers at the point of the problem. In the line of duty, they will need to continue to protect themselves and barring the grotesque violations of power... if a suspect is shot while resisting arrest and behaving in a menacing manner... then that is on him.
An obscene amount of everyday cop/criminal interactions occur daily with very little public awareness- which means, for the overwhelming majority, calls are being handled professionally and competently. We debate the rare exceptions that become sensationalized.
All that aside, even if cops handled every situation perfectly, the problem I tried to illustrate still exists. If we get the cops to perform like superheroes... who do you set your sights on then when looking at the racial inequities?
But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.
because of the oppression of them ever since they were bought and brought here. yes, it does all lead back to racism, but the shootings are not, in my opinion, a direct result of racism.
There is a pretty clear correlation between the two though (and in some cases it really is a direct connection, depending on the shooting). How direct do you need it to be? The whole thing comes back to racism, whether or not the road back is the short cut or the scenic route. The conversation IS about race and racism.
Many of the shootings, in my mind, are a survival response on the part of officers. There are some cases where general intolerance, insensitivity, and a predisposition to assume the worst has occurred (feel free to call this racism).
But again... don't place the burden of responsibility on officers at the point of the problem. In the line of duty, they will need to continue to protect themselves and barring the grotesque violations of power... if a suspect is shot while resisting arrest and behaving in a menacing manner... then that is on him.
An obscene amount of everyday cop/criminal interactions occur daily with very little public awareness- which means, for the overwhelming majority, calls are being handled professionally and competently. We debate the rare exceptions that become sensationalized.
All that aside, even if cops handled every situation perfectly, the problem I tried to illustrate still exists. If we get the cops to perform like superheroes... who do you set your sights on then when looking at the racial inequities?
You're ignoring police bias and prejudice that black people experience daily and just focusing on blacks being killed by cops (and trying to minimize it, even). Police create tension where there shouldn't be any, because of the prejudice. Police abuse their power and ignore probable cause with blacks at a much higher rate than with whites. White people only hear the stories that are sensationalized and don't hear the other ones. So now the push back response is the whole "well there's a few bad apples".
If the rate of cops killing whites was the same as cops killing blacks, then we'd have a different story, the problem is, cops kill blacks at about 3x the rate they kill whites. And maybe I made an assumption about race when you referred to the people protesting and gang violence.
More whites were shot and killed by the police then blacks last year. Where are you coming up with more blacks were shot and killed?
I didn't say more blacks were shot than whites. You're three times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're black than if you're white.
Unarmed black men are actually 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men.
wow that's a pretty insane statistic. blacks are also 13% of the overall population but account for 40% of the total number of people in prison. craziness. Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites.
you can also look at that and wonder why ? are these people committing more crimes than whites ?
Godfather.
UNARMED black men 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men. It doesn't matter who is committing crime when you consider this stat.
An unarmed black man going for a cops gun and is shot will be reported as "unarmed". So this whole thing sbout unarmed men getting shot needs to be taken with a grain of salt. As mentioned in a previous post, there's higher crime in poor communities. Many black communities happen to be poor.
Here is exactly why anyone who says "open season on blacks" , or anything that eludes to that, will immediately be dismissed by me. Not saying you have-haven't scrolled through to see the list of those who did- just adding to the conversation here. With about 42,000,000 blacks in this country, 301 were shot and killed by police in 2015. That same year 42 cops were shot and killed out of 600,000. That means if you are black you have a 0.0007% chance of being shot by a cop. But if you're a cop you have 0.007% chance of being shot, that is 10 times more likely. Why isn't anyone crying "open season" on cops?
You're comparing two different things and trying to make a reverse analogy. Blacks are killed by cops at a much higher rate than they are whites. It seems like a lot of people are just fine with the government taking away freedoms and rights of others as long as they see it benefit themselves in some way.
I don't think I am comparing 2 different things. We're talking about groups of people being wrongfully targeted and killed. If you are a cop you are 10 times more likely to be targeted and killed than if you are black (and that is even assuming that 100% of black deaths are unwarranted) if you take into consideration the justified self defense killings that number is much, much higher. Data has been displayed here and similar threads discussing black deaths. Data is rarely helpful when taken out of context or not displayed in full. Well you can find more data on the same FBI website that has been quoted multiple times that states blacks are the offenders in 89% of black/white violent crimes. And that blacks account for nearly 40% of violent crime, so why is it surprising to anyone that they account for only 26% of police shootings despite being 13% of the population? At the very least seems like the data hardly justifies calling this an "epidemic" or"open season" or supporting the claim that cops have a race problem. And how is any normal person benefitting if your claims of police brutality are true? I find it pretty offensive that you think I would be fine with police murders and that I do benefit from it some how.
I've been having a few reactions to stances like this where black crime is referenced in response to highlighting the issue of police racism. It's a minimization of the problem with police and how they often deal with blacks. It also suggests that they are somehow deserving of not having protections and rights, the same rights that whites have. It brings up another privilege that whites have. When whites commit crime, I'm in no way held responsible for white crime. But yet, if a black person speaks out about police abuse, it's flipped to the subject of black crime, and the message being 'if you would all just behave, maybe then we'll consider your concerns about police, but in the meantime, you'll have to do something about criminals who are black'. This kind of message toward minority groups is common; that a member of the group is somehow responsible for and has influence over all the others.
Comments
Can we not learn anything from history?
While my family had a huge part in who I am now, I also had a handful of amazing, caring teachers growing up, and they made a difference.
Thank you.
technically an unarmed man was killed by police... what would you have done?
this is an example of the judgmental Monday morning quarterbacking that drives me nuts...
Just stupid.
www.headstonesband.com
I keep getting told the same...
I'm glad I'm not in America
Quite like being in sand groper land....
Here is exactly why anyone who says "open season on blacks" , or anything that eludes to that, will immediately be dismissed by me. Not saying you have-haven't scrolled through to see the list of those who did- just adding to the conversation here.
With about 42,000,000 blacks in this country, 301 were shot and killed by police in 2015.
That same year 42 cops were shot and killed out of 600,000.
That means if you are black you have a 0.0007% chance of being shot by a cop. But if you're a cop you have 0.007% chance of being shot, that is 10 times more likely. Why isn't anyone crying "open season" on cops?
Mace... see what I mean?
He ignores your assertion regarding higher crime rates in predominantly black neighbourhoods... which, naturally, leads to more situations between cops and black people: a numerically unlevel setting that lends itself to producing unlevel statistics.
Then tosses out the 'giving away freedom and rights' classic. Exactly how it fits with regards to what you said... I'm not sure (he'd have to elaborate)?
You're still waiting for a sound response.
Everywhere in the world where poverty exists, crime manifests itself. Impoverished neighbourhoods in America feature crime. As such, cops are drawn to these neighbourhoods and encounters occur between cops and black people on a much more frequent occurrence than they do with whites in suburban areas.
Why is there not a proportionately even distribution of whites and blacks in suburban areas and inner city project areas? What has happened in the USA where we can acknowledge concentrated poor 'black' communities? How has this happened?
I'm not saying there are no racist cops and that there have been no legitimate cases of cop abuse. I'm saying the problem is much more profound than many care to admit (those types).
Data has been displayed here and similar threads discussing black deaths. Data is rarely helpful when taken out of context or not displayed in full. Well you can find more data on the same FBI website that has been quoted multiple times that states blacks are the offenders in 89% of black/white violent crimes. And that blacks account for nearly 40% of violent crime, so why is it surprising to anyone that they account for only 26% of police shootings despite being 13% of the population? At the very least seems like the data hardly justifies calling this an "epidemic" or"open season" or supporting the claim that cops have a race problem.
And how is any normal person benefitting if your claims of police brutality are true? I find it pretty offensive that you think I would be fine with police murders and that I do benefit from it some how.
Good points. Perhaps if more questions were framed in such a manner, with more emphasis on socioeconomic development (or lack thereof), as opposed to having more of a racial bent... we could have one of those discussions that would be more to everybody's liking. That was a well-constructed post, thirty.
I agree that the problem is much more profound than many would care to admit.
Do I think there's more racism in America than there is in Canada? Nope. Just live in Winnipeg and talk to anyone over the age of 50 and a good proportion will call Aboriginals names and blame their situation on themselves.
And in Canada, for the most part, we don't have all of these oppressed poor people walking around with guns.
Winnipeg, as poor and racist as it can be, has about the same number of shootings in one year as Chicago does in one weekend. Yes, Chicago has 3 times the population. But 30 times the shootings.
www.headstonesband.com
I'm glad we can see things the same way. Thanks as well for demanding I elaborate before jumping down my throat.
Cheers.
we will find a way, we will find our place
www.headstonesband.com
But in today's world much of society goes out of the way to help the minority's first, in schools, job market etc.
But I could buy the argument it's tied to racism because even though they may have the same opportunities today, their grandparents didn't. And if you are not educated, it is more likely your kids will not be either. So these high crime poverty neighborhoods are the offsprings of racism 100 years ago, but not today. So in my opinion there's not an epidemic of racist cops, but a poverty cycle in society that, among several other factors, help contribute to high crime and poor neighborhoods.
the first statement tells us it's a cop problem.
the second statement tells us it's a socio economic problem.
If we want to really solve the problem, distinguishing the two is, to me, obviously paramount.
www.headstonesband.com
But again... don't place the burden of responsibility on officers at the point of the problem. In the line of duty, they will need to continue to protect themselves and barring the grotesque violations of power... if a suspect is shot while resisting arrest and behaving in a menacing manner... then that is on him.
An obscene amount of everyday cop/criminal interactions occur daily with very little public awareness- which means, for the overwhelming majority, calls are being handled professionally and competently. We debate the rare exceptions that become sensationalized.
All that aside, even if cops handled every situation perfectly, the problem I tried to illustrate still exists. If we get the cops to perform like superheroes... who do you set your sights on then when looking at the racial inequities?