In all honesty, you have some reasonable things to say for people to ponder. The problem the way I see it is that your message gets lost in the delivery.
If you'd present your viewpoint in a more respectful manner (tone down the hatred... don't refer to everyone else's submissions as only items worth reading while you crap)... then your voice would take on significance.
I'm not sure how you're going to take this. I'm not trying to be big brother or dad... I'm just speaking honestly.
Give people a little more credit.
Good point Thirty, I have always been "that guy" in class. One of my many flaws.
I have been especially irritable the past few days due to The tragedy in Dallas and having my days off cancelled this weekend due to the BLM protests. Having worked 16 days in a row this guy needs to get his ass up to the north woods Musky Fishin ASAP. Donald Trump is rolling through town the next couple days which is setting up to be a proper shitshow....hopefully the protesters expected don't burn Trump Tower down and I can get some time off.
Confusing Racism w/ Realism I see... In my Confused Libby town offenders do roughly between 25-35% of their sentence. The county used to blame budgetary reasons, but the big one now is to push "black and brown" people out since they are disproportionately being incarcerated. Ask The County Comish Toni Preckwickle...it's her mission.
If you WAna do some research look up black on black homcides. You will find a vast majority of the offenders are on parole, many for UUW...unlawful use of weapon. Many shooting/homocides in my town would not happen if the bleeding heart judges charged these offenders accordingly and make them do atleast 90% of their bit like they do in the federal system...but what the fuck do I know??
Everything wrong in the world is the fault of Liberals, right? If we could just get rid of Liberals there would be no crime, laws broken, violence, etc. The world would be peachy keen!
Well d'uh Liberals and the "demografics:
Why mock people because of spelling errors?
So if there were no Liberals we could finally talk brass tacks why crime, violence and broken laws happen. A Liberal mind suspends itself and questions and wonders and questions and wonders and questions and wonders and questions and won.....
When you spell something poorly... you don't project yourself as overly intelligent. And when you spell something poorly while attempting to come across as an expert... there's some irony there that is fair game to allude to.
I'm not one of those 'Libbys' spoken of here- check out my stance on the Death Penalty and my defence of many- if not most- police officers in the line of duty on the MT. But I'm also not a 'red neck racist righty' either.
What I can say- sitting in the middle as much as anyone might be able to say they sit in the middle- is that the Liberal mind is ultra valuable to society as is the right. Your poke at them suggests you prefer to continue to treat the recurring symptoms and not look at the cause of the recurring symptoms- this is not a good practice.
A balance of both is necessary. Throw out the extreme views on both sides and we could get down to work, but to mock anyone sitting slightly right or slightly left of themselves is counterproductive and part of the problem.
I Never thought I came across as overly intelligent or an expert on anything, but thanks 4 the heads up. I know it's important for many on here to fancy themselves in coming off that way, but that sure as shit ain't me. I just call it the way I see it, and that simply is unacceptable on here to be truthful or have those "honest conversations" without someones diaper getting soiled.
I guess you see yourself as wanting to have honest conversations, (as opposed to the dishonest ones we usually have???), but I see you as rather avoidant. You'll say something, either it's honest, or you're just trying to be inflammatory, but then you never back up your statement when flaws are pointed out or you're asked questions about what you said.
Confusing Racism w/ Realism I see... In my Confused Libby town offenders do roughly between 25-35% of their sentence. The county used to blame budgetary reasons, but the big one now is to push "black and brown" people out since they are disproportionately being incarcerated. Ask The County Comish Toni Preckwickle...it's her mission.
If you WAna do some research look up black on black homcides. You will find a vast majority of the offenders are on parole, many for UUW...unlawful use of weapon. Many shooting/homocides in my town would not happen if the bleeding heart judges charged these offenders accordingly and make them do atleast 90% of their bit like they do in the federal system...but what the fuck do I know??
Everything wrong in the world is the fault of Liberals, right? If we could just get rid of Liberals there would be no crime, laws broken, violence, etc. The world would be peachy keen!
Well d'uh Liberals and the "demografics:
Why mock people because of spelling errors?
So if there were no Liberals we could finally talk brass tacks why crime, violence and broken laws happen. A Liberal mind suspends itself and questions and wonders and questions and wonders and questions and wonders and questions and won.....
When you spell something poorly... you don't project yourself as overly intelligent. And when you spell something poorly while attempting to come across as an expert... there's some irony there that is fair game to allude to.
I'm not one of those 'Libbys' spoken of here- check out my stance on the Death Penalty and my defence of many- if not most- police officers in the line of duty on the MT. But I'm also not a 'red neck racist righty' either.
What I can say- sitting in the middle as much as anyone might be able to say they sit in the middle- is that the Liberal mind is ultra valuable to society as is the right. Your poke at them suggests you prefer to continue to treat the recurring symptoms and not look at the cause of the recurring symptoms- this is not a good practice.
A balance of both is necessary. Throw out the extreme views on both sides and we could get down to work, but to mock anyone sitting slightly right or slightly left of themselves is counterproductive and part of the problem.
I Never thought I came across as overly intelligent or an expert on anything, but thanks 4 the heads up. I know it's important for many on here to fancy themselves in coming off that way, but that sure as shit ain't me. I just call it the way I see it, and that simply is unacceptable on here to be truthful or have those "honest conversations" without someones diaper getting soiled.
I guess you see yourself as wanting to have honest conversations, (as opposed to the dishonest ones we usually have???), but I see you as rather avoidant. You'll say something, either it's honest, or you're just trying to be inflammatory, but then you never back up your statement when flaws are pointed out or you're asked questions about what you said.
Well I am not a big computer guy, choosing to spend my free time doing active things other then spending time researching the most truthful source in the world, the Internet, posting links from blogs and such to prove a point. I do however get a kick out of reading from some of these blogs and sites I never knew existed. Sometimes I don't jump on the internet for days which I am finding is a very good thing for me personally…the whole turn off toon in thing. One thing I can't can't seem to live without is Internet Radio for Stern and the PJ channel.
If the rate of cops killing whites was the same as cops killing blacks, then we'd have a different story, the problem is, cops kill blacks at about 3x the rate they kill whites. And maybe I made an assumption about race when you referred to the people protesting and gang violence.
More whites were shot and killed by the police then blacks last year. Where are you coming up with more blacks were shot and killed?
I didn't say more blacks were shot than whites. You're three times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're black than if you're white.
Unarmed black men are actually 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men.
wow that's a pretty insane statistic. blacks are also 13% of the overall population but account for 40% of the total number of people in prison. craziness. Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites.
Can we be more careful about citing national statistics when discussing race and crime? Our cities are demographically different than the nation as a whole. I think it would be more informative to look at these correlations on a micro level, if we really wanted to understand reality. While on a national level, these lopsided numbers may be true, but if you examined a single city or a neighborhood in a city, the numbers may tell a whole other story. The numbers in different parts of rural America or the suburbs will tell another. We have 325 million people in this country, and none of our realities are the same.
If the rate of cops killing whites was the same as cops killing blacks, then we'd have a different story, the problem is, cops kill blacks at about 3x the rate they kill whites. And maybe I made an assumption about race when you referred to the people protesting and gang violence.
More whites were shot and killed by the police then blacks last year. Where are you coming up with more blacks were shot and killed?
I didn't say more blacks were shot than whites. You're three times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're black than if you're white.
Unarmed black men are actually 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men.
wow that's a pretty insane statistic. blacks are also 13% of the overall population but account for 40% of the total number of people in prison. craziness. Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites.
Can we be more careful about citing national statistics when discussing race and crime? Our cities are demographically different than the nation as a whole. I think it would be more informative to look at these correlations on a micro level, if we really wanted to understand reality. While on a national level, these lopsided numbers may be true, but if you examined a single city or a neighborhood in a city, the numbers may tell a whole other story. The numbers in different parts of rural America or the suburbs will tell another. We have 325 million people in this country, and none of our realities are the same.
Hey I m not trying to defend my doctorate, I just posted some national statistics. If you d like to break it down further then go for it.
If the rate of cops killing whites was the same as cops killing blacks, then we'd have a different story, the problem is, cops kill blacks at about 3x the rate they kill whites. And maybe I made an assumption about race when you referred to the people protesting and gang violence.
More whites were shot and killed by the police then blacks last year. Where are you coming up with more blacks were shot and killed?
I didn't say more blacks were shot than whites. You're three times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're black than if you're white.
Unarmed black men are actually 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men.
wow that's a pretty insane statistic. blacks are also 13% of the overall population but account for 40% of the total number of people in prison. craziness. Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites.
Can we be more careful about citing national statistics when discussing race and crime? Our cities are demographically different than the nation as a whole. I think it would be more informative to look at these correlations on a micro level, if we really wanted to understand reality. While on a national level, these lopsided numbers may be true, but if you examined a single city or a neighborhood in a city, the numbers may tell a whole other story. The numbers in different parts of rural America or the suburbs will tell another. We have 325 million people in this country, and none of our realities are the same.
Hey I m not trying to defend my doctorate, I just posted some national statistics. If you d like to break it down further then go for it.
I'm not asking you specifically to defend anything. I started with "we" and accidentally switched to the general "you" halfway through before going back to my more preferred "we." We all need to be careful when interpreting data.
I ask the question because I was listening to a sociologist discuss race and violent crime in NY, and the numbers just did not support the same kind of racial injustice when looked at locally. There was no imbalance at all when looking at the racial profile of convicted violent offenders vs. unfounded stops and searches neighborhood by neighborhood.
The most interesting statistic was the small number of actual people committing the majority of the crimes. Innocent people are basically being held hostage in their own homes through the fear and intimidation of a relatively small number of criminal gangs running their streets, and the sociologist's main point is that these gangs are running their neighborhoods into the ground while we debate and mostly overblow police tactics that may or may not be an institutional problem everywhere. The hard numbers, the ones that closely reflect reality in specific neighborhoods, demand that we solve the problem of violent crime in black and Hispanic neighborhoods. The innocent people who live in them deserve to live in peace. How can one begin to raise himself or herself up out of poverty when it's terrifying to even wait at the bus stop to get to work or school?
And all while she was making these points, which none of us could easily argue with, the person interviewing her could only fall back on the "yeah but isn't it racist to deny that we have a problem with police?" The interviewer came across as totally disingenuous because the sociologist was basically making the argument to help these neighborhoods. She was not denying race as the blame for anything. She was just suggesting that the culture warriors get out of the trenches they've dug themselves into because the people in our cities cannot wait while we sort out our philosophical differences.
The sociologist is Healthier MacDonald and the book is War on Cops, a book brianlux mentioned in one of the multiple threads on this subject. He seemed curious and suspicious of its thesis, but I'm not so much after hearing her actually talk. I don't want to cite numbers here because I don't remember them exactly and don't want to get them wrong. But I do want to read her whole book and learn more of what she found in her studies because I found her argument -- and the micro-data -- compelling. If I read the whole book and come away with something different, then the worst I am is willing to explore a different point of view.
Confusing Racism w/ Realism I see... In my Confused Libby town offenders do roughly between 25-35% of their sentence. The county used to blame budgetary reasons, but the big one now is to push "black and brown" people out since they are disproportionately being incarcerated. Ask The County Comish Toni Preckwickle...it's her mission.
If you WAna do some research look up black on black homcides. You will find a vast majority of the offenders are on parole, many for UUW...unlawful use of weapon. Many shooting/homocides in my town would not happen if the bleeding heart judges charged these offenders accordingly and make them do atleast 90% of their bit like they do in the federal system...but what the fuck do I know??
Everything wrong in the world is the fault of Liberals, right? If we could just get rid of Liberals there would be no crime, laws broken, violence, etc. The world would be peachy keen!
Well d'uh Liberals and the "demografics:
Why mock people because of spelling errors?
So if there were no Liberals we could finally talk brass tacks why crime, violence and broken laws happen. A Liberal mind suspends itself and questions and wonders and questions and wonders and questions and wonders and questions and won.....
When you spell something poorly... you don't project yourself as overly intelligent. And when you spell something poorly while attempting to come across as an expert... there's some irony there that is fair game to allude to.
I'm not one of those 'Libbys' spoken of here- check out my stance on the Death Penalty and my defence of many- if not most- police officers in the line of duty on the MT. But I'm also not a 'red neck racist righty' either.
What I can say- sitting in the middle as much as anyone might be able to say they sit in the middle- is that the Liberal mind is ultra valuable to society as is the right. Your poke at them suggests you prefer to continue to treat the recurring symptoms and not look at the cause of the recurring symptoms- this is not a good practice.
A balance of both is necessary. Throw out the extreme views on both sides and we could get down to work, but to mock anyone sitting slightly right or slightly left of themselves is counterproductive and part of the problem.
I Never thought I came across as overly intelligent or an expert on anything, but thanks 4 the heads up. I know it's important for many on here to fancy themselves in coming off that way, but that sure as shit ain't me. I just call it the way I see it, and that simply is unacceptable on here to be truthful or have those "honest conversations" without someones diaper getting soiled.
I guess you see yourself as wanting to have honest conversations, (as opposed to the dishonest ones we usually have???), but I see you as rather avoidant. You'll say something, either it's honest, or you're just trying to be inflammatory, but then you never back up your statement when flaws are pointed out or you're asked questions about what you said.
Well I am not a big computer guy, choosing to spend my free time doing active things other then spending time researching the most truthful source in the world, the Internet, posting links from blogs and such to prove a point. I do however get a kick out of reading from some of these blogs and sites I never knew existed. Sometimes I don't jump on the internet for days which I am finding is a very good thing for me personally…the whole turn off toon in thing. One thing I can't can't seem to live without is Internet Radio for Stern and the PJ channel.
I'm not talking about doing research to support your claims, I'm talking more about responding to basic questions to things you've said. One thing that comes to mind is that you've said we need to make America great again. I asked when this timeframe was, and I don't remember you responding. Another question: what are the honest conversations we should have that we aren't?
it's not a race issue. it's a class issue. every capitalist society has different classes. the lowest class tends to commit the most violent crime. it's difficult, as a flawed human, to not let our experiences guide our reactions; when the majority of the people you deal with as a cop are of one ethnicity, you tend to start reacting differently to that ethnicity. it's human nature. it's our defence mechanisms working the way they should. especially with everyone and their dog owning a gun. I can't imagine being a cop and knowing that the dude might have a firearm, LEGALLY, under his jacket.
the video of the guy in minnesota only began after the guy got shot. the cop was saying he told him NOT to go for his ID, and he was obviously distressed at shooting the guy. the girlfriend said he told him to do it. it's one word against another. why would the cop ask him for his ID then shoot him? that doesn't make sense. does it look bad? damn rights. but without video of the moments leading up to the shooting, none of us can accurately judge it. maybe it was a look on his face. maybe he jerked a bit too much. who the fuck knows. you have literally half a second to make a potentially life or death decision.
now the guy in baton rouge, now to me, that was a different story. you saw the guy resisting arrest, but why the fuck do you need to shoot him in the torso several times? I understand it's a split second decision, but come on, the guy is pretty well detained and you shoot him?
and I can't believe that Rudy Guiliani actually said "yellow lives matter". YELLOW? SERIOUSLY?
So if there were no Liberals we could finally talk brass tacks why crime, violence and broken laws happen. A Liberal mind suspends itself and questions and wonders and questions and wonders and questions and wonders and questions and won.....
The Liberal mind already knows why those things happen. Poverty. Poor people disproportionately commit crime, violence and break laws, regardless of their race.
If the rate of cops killing whites was the same as cops killing blacks, then we'd have a different story, the problem is, cops kill blacks at about 3x the rate they kill whites. And maybe I made an assumption about race when you referred to the people protesting and gang violence.
More whites were shot and killed by the police then blacks last year. Where are you coming up with more blacks were shot and killed?
I didn't say more blacks were shot than whites. You're three times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're black than if you're white.
Unarmed black men are actually 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men.
wow that's a pretty insane statistic. blacks are also 13% of the overall population but account for 40% of the total number of people in prison. craziness. Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites.
you can also look at that and wonder why ? are these people committing more crimes than whites ?
Godfather.
UNARMED black men 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men. It doesn't matter who is committing crime when you consider this stat.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
If the rate of cops killing whites was the same as cops killing blacks, then we'd have a different story, the problem is, cops kill blacks at about 3x the rate they kill whites. And maybe I made an assumption about race when you referred to the people protesting and gang violence.
More whites were shot and killed by the police then blacks last year. Where are you coming up with more blacks were shot and killed?
I didn't say more blacks were shot than whites. You're three times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're black than if you're white.
Unarmed black men are actually 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men.
wow that's a pretty insane statistic. blacks are also 13% of the overall population but account for 40% of the total number of people in prison. craziness. Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites.
Just remember those stats when you want to have that REAL conversation all the politicians and "community activists" blabber about Race relations in the USA . Thank God there is the other side of the street.
You are confused again, the stats relate incarceration rates, not crime rates. Big difference.
Oh yes, I am confused as always. The mush brains of the world would really be confused if the majority of liberal judges in big cities sentenced this demografic appropriately.
There is a lot of vaguely racist (and occasionally anti-semitic) comments made on this board.
Nothing vague about the above quoted post
Confusing Racism w/ Realism I see... In my Confused Libby town offenders do roughly between 25-35% of their sentence. The county used to blame budgetary reasons, but the big one now is to push "black and brown" people out since they are disproportionately being incarcerated. Ask The County Comish Toni Preckwickle...it's her mission.
If you WAna do some research look up black on black homcides. You will find a vast majority of the offenders are on parole, many for UUW...unlawful use of weapon. Many shooting/homocides in my town would not happen if the bleeding heart judges charged these offenders accordingly and make them do atleast 90% of their bit like they do in the federal system...but what the fuck do I know??
Perhaps if our jails weren't filled with non-violent drug offenders there would be more room to properly sentence the folks who are a threat to society. I know your job is not to create laws, but enforce them, but perhaps if more of the "bleeding heart" policies were put into place, we'd have more room to lock up the folks you reference...
it's not a race issue. it's a class issue. every capitalist society has different classes. the lowest class tends to commit the most violent crime. it's difficult, as a flawed human, to not let our experiences guide our reactions; when the majority of the people you deal with as a cop are of one ethnicity, you tend to start reacting differently to that ethnicity. it's human nature. it's our defence mechanisms working the way they should. especially with everyone and their dog owning a gun. I can't imagine being a cop and knowing that the dude might have a firearm, LEGALLY, under his jacket.
the video of the guy in minnesota only began after the guy got shot. the cop was saying he told him NOT to go for his ID, and he was obviously distressed at shooting the guy. the girlfriend said he told him to do it. it's one word against another. why would the cop ask him for his ID then shoot him? that doesn't make sense. does it look bad? damn rights. but without video of the moments leading up to the shooting, none of us can accurately judge it. maybe it was a look on his face. maybe he jerked a bit too much. who the fuck knows. you have literally half a second to make a potentially life or death decision.
now the guy in baton rouge, now to me, that was a different story. you saw the guy resisting arrest, but why the fuck do you need to shoot him in the torso several times? I understand it's a split second decision, but come on, the guy is pretty well detained and you shoot him?
and I can't believe that Rudy Guiliani actually said "yellow lives matter". YELLOW? SERIOUSLY?
I've been saying that about the Minnesota shooting since the day that video was released. I disagree with you on the NO shooting. It really doesn't matter how many cops are on him when he's resisting and possibly reaching for a weapon. One thing is for sure, if he doesn't resist, he doesn't die. That's the bottom line.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
it's not a race issue. it's a class issue. every capitalist society has different classes. the lowest class tends to commit the most violent crime. it's difficult, as a flawed human, to not let our experiences guide our reactions; when the majority of the people you deal with as a cop are of one ethnicity, you tend to start reacting differently to that ethnicity. it's human nature. it's our defence mechanisms working the way they should. especially with everyone and their dog owning a gun. I can't imagine being a cop and knowing that the dude might have a firearm, LEGALLY, under his jacket.
the video of the guy in minnesota only began after the guy got shot. the cop was saying he told him NOT to go for his ID, and he was obviously distressed at shooting the guy. the girlfriend said he told him to do it. it's one word against another. why would the cop ask him for his ID then shoot him? that doesn't make sense. does it look bad? damn rights. but without video of the moments leading up to the shooting, none of us can accurately judge it. maybe it was a look on his face. maybe he jerked a bit too much. who the fuck knows. you have literally half a second to make a potentially life or death decision.
now the guy in baton rouge, now to me, that was a different story. you saw the guy resisting arrest, but why the fuck do you need to shoot him in the torso several times? I understand it's a split second decision, but come on, the guy is pretty well detained and you shoot him?
and I can't believe that Rudy Guiliani actually said "yellow lives matter". YELLOW? SERIOUSLY?
I've been saying that about the Minnesota shooting since the day that video was released. I disagree with you on the NO shooting. It really doesn't matter how many cops are on him when he's resisting and possibly reaching for a weapon. One thing is for sure, if he doesn't resist, he doesn't die. That's the bottom line.
yes, generally speaking, he wouldn't be dead. but even in a split second, why can't they just pistol whip him, or shoot him in the arm, or something that MAY not be lethal? shooting him in the torso is a guaranteed result.
it's not a race issue. it's a class issue. every capitalist society has different classes. the lowest class tends to commit the most violent crime. it's difficult, as a flawed human, to not let our experiences guide our reactions; when the majority of the people you deal with as a cop are of one ethnicity, you tend to start reacting differently to that ethnicity. it's human nature. it's our defence mechanisms working the way they should. especially with everyone and their dog owning a gun. I can't imagine being a cop and knowing that the dude might have a firearm, LEGALLY, under his jacket.
the video of the guy in minnesota only began after the guy got shot. the cop was saying he told him NOT to go for his ID, and he was obviously distressed at shooting the guy. the girlfriend said he told him to do it. it's one word against another. why would the cop ask him for his ID then shoot him? that doesn't make sense. does it look bad? damn rights. but without video of the moments leading up to the shooting, none of us can accurately judge it. maybe it was a look on his face. maybe he jerked a bit too much. who the fuck knows. you have literally half a second to make a potentially life or death decision.
now the guy in baton rouge, now to me, that was a different story. you saw the guy resisting arrest, but why the fuck do you need to shoot him in the torso several times? I understand it's a split second decision, but come on, the guy is pretty well detained and you shoot him?
and I can't believe that Rudy Guiliani actually said "yellow lives matter". YELLOW? SERIOUSLY?
I've been saying that about the Minnesota shooting since the day that video was released. I disagree with you on the NO shooting. It really doesn't matter how many cops are on him when he's resisting and possibly reaching for a weapon. One thing is for sure, if he doesn't resist, he doesn't die. That's the bottom line.
yes, generally speaking, he wouldn't be dead. but even in a split second, why can't they just pistol whip him, or shoot him in the arm, or something that MAY not be lethal? shooting him in the torso is a guaranteed result.
Simple answer is no. That could easily result in the death of a cop. It's been repeated here a hundred times, if you're going to make the decision to shoot, you don't shoot to injure.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
it's not a race issue. it's a class issue. every capitalist society has different classes. the lowest class tends to commit the most violent crime. it's difficult, as a flawed human, to not let our experiences guide our reactions; when the majority of the people you deal with as a cop are of one ethnicity, you tend to start reacting differently to that ethnicity. it's human nature. it's our defence mechanisms working the way they should. especially with everyone and their dog owning a gun. I can't imagine being a cop and knowing that the dude might have a firearm, LEGALLY, under his jacket.
the video of the guy in minnesota only began after the guy got shot. the cop was saying he told him NOT to go for his ID, and he was obviously distressed at shooting the guy. the girlfriend said he told him to do it. it's one word against another. why would the cop ask him for his ID then shoot him? that doesn't make sense. does it look bad? damn rights. but without video of the moments leading up to the shooting, none of us can accurately judge it. maybe it was a look on his face. maybe he jerked a bit too much. who the fuck knows. you have literally half a second to make a potentially life or death decision.
now the guy in baton rouge, now to me, that was a different story. you saw the guy resisting arrest, but why the fuck do you need to shoot him in the torso several times? I understand it's a split second decision, but come on, the guy is pretty well detained and you shoot him?
and I can't believe that Rudy Guiliani actually said "yellow lives matter". YELLOW? SERIOUSLY?
Good post, Hugh.
I'm not inclined to agree with you regarding the NO case, but you have served up the common sense aspect to the Minny case with regards to how the officer 'might' have perceived things.
Begs the question: why no body cam?
It's just so easy to speak from the sidelines after the fact. I imagine it's a hell of a lot more intense in the moment.
it's not a race issue. it's a class issue. every capitalist society has different classes. the lowest class tends to commit the most violent crime. it's difficult, as a flawed human, to not let our experiences guide our reactions; when the majority of the people you deal with as a cop are of one ethnicity, you tend to start reacting differently to that ethnicity. it's human nature. it's our defence mechanisms working the way they should. especially with everyone and their dog owning a gun. I can't imagine being a cop and knowing that the dude might have a firearm, LEGALLY, under his jacket.
the video of the guy in minnesota only began after the guy got shot. the cop was saying he told him NOT to go for his ID, and he was obviously distressed at shooting the guy. the girlfriend said he told him to do it. it's one word against another. why would the cop ask him for his ID then shoot him? that doesn't make sense. does it look bad? damn rights. but without video of the moments leading up to the shooting, none of us can accurately judge it. maybe it was a look on his face. maybe he jerked a bit too much. who the fuck knows. you have literally half a second to make a potentially life or death decision.
now the guy in baton rouge, now to me, that was a different story. you saw the guy resisting arrest, but why the fuck do you need to shoot him in the torso several times? I understand it's a split second decision, but come on, the guy is pretty well detained and you shoot him?
and I can't believe that Rudy Guiliani actually said "yellow lives matter". YELLOW? SERIOUSLY?
I've been saying that about the Minnesota shooting since the day that video was released. I disagree with you on the NO shooting. It really doesn't matter how many cops are on him when he's resisting and possibly reaching for a weapon. One thing is for sure, if he doesn't resist, he doesn't die. That's the bottom line.
yes, generally speaking, he wouldn't be dead. but even in a split second, why can't they just pistol whip him, or shoot him in the arm, or something that MAY not be lethal? shooting him in the torso is a guaranteed result.
Simple answer is no. That could easily result in the death of a cop. It's been repeated here a hundred times, if you're going to make the decision to shoot, you don't shoot to injure.
I only watched the video of Baton Rouge once, but even though he was struggling, it looked to me like they had it under control and lethal force was not warranted. I could be wrong, however.
it's not a race issue. it's a class issue. every capitalist society has different classes. the lowest class tends to commit the most violent crime. it's difficult, as a flawed human, to not let our experiences guide our reactions; when the majority of the people you deal with as a cop are of one ethnicity, you tend to start reacting differently to that ethnicity. it's human nature. it's our defence mechanisms working the way they should. especially with everyone and their dog owning a gun. I can't imagine being a cop and knowing that the dude might have a firearm, LEGALLY, under his jacket.
the video of the guy in minnesota only began after the guy got shot. the cop was saying he told him NOT to go for his ID, and he was obviously distressed at shooting the guy. the girlfriend said he told him to do it. it's one word against another. why would the cop ask him for his ID then shoot him? that doesn't make sense. does it look bad? damn rights. but without video of the moments leading up to the shooting, none of us can accurately judge it. maybe it was a look on his face. maybe he jerked a bit too much. who the fuck knows. you have literally half a second to make a potentially life or death decision.
now the guy in baton rouge, now to me, that was a different story. you saw the guy resisting arrest, but why the fuck do you need to shoot him in the torso several times? I understand it's a split second decision, but come on, the guy is pretty well detained and you shoot him?
and I can't believe that Rudy Guiliani actually said "yellow lives matter". YELLOW? SERIOUSLY?
I've been saying that about the Minnesota shooting since the day that video was released. I disagree with you on the NO shooting. It really doesn't matter how many cops are on him when he's resisting and possibly reaching for a weapon. One thing is for sure, if he doesn't resist, he doesn't die. That's the bottom line.
yes, generally speaking, he wouldn't be dead. but even in a split second, why can't they just pistol whip him, or shoot him in the arm, or something that MAY not be lethal? shooting him in the torso is a guaranteed result.
Simple answer is no. That could easily result in the death of a cop. It's been repeated here a hundred times, if you're going to make the decision to shoot, you don't shoot to injure.
I only watched the video of Baton Rouge once, but even though he was struggling, it looked to me like they had it under control and lethal force was not warranted. I could be wrong, however.
The cops were saying he had a gun in his pocket and was trying to get it as they tried to subdue him on the ground.
The video is shaky and doesn't definitively show him going for his gun or not... but the video does show him resisting through a couple tactics (including a taser), squirming on the ground and then the cop taking the gun from his pocket after the shots were fired.
I'm not really going out on a limb to say Guiliani's context and Springsteen's context are different.
I was expressing a thought to HFD. Yes the context is different but the stage is the same. Why can some talk about colour and some can't?
Calling Asians yellow is considered racist, is it not?
I don't know anymore. What colour are they supposed to be called? Guiliani did not say yellow did he?
Calling aboriginals red is considered racist. Calling asians yellow is racist. At least where I'm from.
And yes, he absolutely said "black lives matter, white lives matter, yellow lives matter, all lives matter" in the interview I watched. I woukd not make that up.
I'm not really going out on a limb to say Guiliani's context and Springsteen's context are different.
I was expressing a thought to HFD. Yes the context is different but the stage is the same. Why can some talk about colour and some can't?
Calling Asians yellow is considered racist, is it not?
I don't know anymore. What colour are they supposed to be called? Guiliani did not say yellow did he?
Calling aboriginals red is considered racist. Calling asians yellow is racist. At least where I'm from.
And yes, he absolutely said "black lives matter, white lives matter, yellow lives matter, all lives matter" in the interview I watched. I woukd not make that up.
Yes agreed that calling those people that is racist but why can we call a black person black?
I just am really interested in seeing that video or interview because if you google anything about him saying yellow it is nowhere to be found. No you tube, no headlines etc. If he said yellow it is a pretty big deal and it seems to be buried somewhere.
Every interview or headline I see he says Asian not yellow.
This story is a year old. It occurred in the UK. Large man menacingly roaming through streets with a big knife. Police helicopter follows him directing officers on the ground to him. Officers on the ground are urged to hasten their approach because the man finally finds a victim- 82 year old woman in her backyard who gets killed and decapitated.
Man is pursued as he continues to roam looking to wreak more havoc and gets tasered six times resisting arrest in what was called a violent and chaotic struggle. He finally is subdued and taken into custody. The courts find him not guilty of the crime by reason of insanity.
The restraint the cops exercised knowing the man had just savagely decapitated an old woman and had now engaged them in a violent struggle must be uplifting and encouraging for some.
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Stay well. And thanks for hearing me out.
I ask the question because I was listening to a sociologist discuss race and violent crime in NY, and the numbers just did not support the same kind of racial injustice when looked at locally. There was no imbalance at all when looking at the racial profile of convicted violent offenders vs. unfounded stops and searches neighborhood by neighborhood.
The most interesting statistic was the small number of actual people committing the majority of the crimes. Innocent people are basically being held hostage in their own homes through the fear and intimidation of a relatively small number of criminal gangs running their streets, and the sociologist's main point is that these gangs are running their neighborhoods into the ground while we debate and mostly overblow police tactics that may or may not be an institutional problem everywhere. The hard numbers, the ones that closely reflect reality in specific neighborhoods, demand that we solve the problem of violent crime in black and Hispanic neighborhoods. The innocent people who live in them deserve to live in peace. How can one begin to raise himself or herself up out of poverty when it's terrifying to even wait at the bus stop to get to work or school?
And all while she was making these points, which none of us could easily argue with, the person interviewing her could only fall back on the "yeah but isn't it racist to deny that we have a problem with police?" The interviewer came across as totally disingenuous because the sociologist was basically making the argument to help these neighborhoods. She was not denying race as the blame for anything. She was just suggesting that the culture warriors get out of the trenches they've dug themselves into because the people in our cities cannot wait while we sort out our philosophical differences.
The sociologist is Healthier MacDonald and the book is War on Cops, a book brianlux mentioned in one of the multiple threads on this subject. He seemed curious and suspicious of its thesis, but I'm not so much after hearing her actually talk. I don't want to cite numbers here because I don't remember them exactly and don't want to get them wrong. But I do want to read her whole book and learn more of what she found in her studies because I found her argument -- and the micro-data -- compelling. If I read the whole book and come away with something different, then the worst I am is willing to explore a different point of view.
the video of the guy in minnesota only began after the guy got shot. the cop was saying he told him NOT to go for his ID, and he was obviously distressed at shooting the guy. the girlfriend said he told him to do it. it's one word against another. why would the cop ask him for his ID then shoot him? that doesn't make sense. does it look bad? damn rights. but without video of the moments leading up to the shooting, none of us can accurately judge it. maybe it was a look on his face. maybe he jerked a bit too much. who the fuck knows. you have literally half a second to make a potentially life or death decision.
now the guy in baton rouge, now to me, that was a different story. you saw the guy resisting arrest, but why the fuck do you need to shoot him in the torso several times? I understand it's a split second decision, but come on, the guy is pretty well detained and you shoot him?
and I can't believe that Rudy Guiliani actually said "yellow lives matter". YELLOW? SERIOUSLY?
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I'm not inclined to agree with you regarding the NO case, but you have served up the common sense aspect to the Minny case with regards to how the officer 'might' have perceived things.
Begs the question: why no body cam?
It's just so easy to speak from the sidelines after the fact. I imagine it's a hell of a lot more intense in the moment.
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The video is shaky and doesn't definitively show him going for his gun or not... but the video does show him resisting through a couple tactics (including a taser), squirming on the ground and then the cop taking the gun from his pocket after the shots were fired.
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I already pointed out what Giuliani said earlier about BLM.
Bruce Springsteen sings about killing the yellow man.
Yes the context is different but the stage is the same.
Why can some talk about colour and some can't?
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What colour are they supposed to be called?
Guiliani did not say yellow did he?
And yes, he absolutely said "black lives matter, white lives matter, yellow lives matter, all lives matter" in the interview I watched. I woukd not make that up.
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I just am really interested in seeing that video or interview because if you google anything about him saying yellow it is nowhere to be found. No you tube, no headlines etc.
If he said yellow it is a pretty big deal and it seems to be buried somewhere.
Every interview or headline I see he says Asian not yellow.
Man is pursued as he continues to roam looking to wreak more havoc and gets tasered six times resisting arrest in what was called a violent and chaotic struggle. He finally is subdued and taken into custody. The courts find him not guilty of the crime by reason of insanity.
The restraint the cops exercised knowing the man had just savagely decapitated an old woman and had now engaged them in a violent struggle must be uplifting and encouraging for some.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/23/family-of-decapitated-woman-tell-of-despair-as-killer-cleared-of