European Union vote 2016

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  • Spags
    Spags Leigh-on-Sea, UK Posts: 3,057
    newy777 said:


    I

    Spags said:

    Regarding racism tho some of the parties in favour of leaving have shown they are fundamentally racist - did you see that UKIP billboard with the line of refugees that Farage was stood in front of today? Tbh both sides have turned this referendum into a shameful mess. Today's shooting makes me sick just thinking about it all. An isolated Britian right now couldnt be more of a backwards move. Hate to think of how much political capital both sides will make off the shooting. Still a week of this shit to go too...

    Farage video for you. Enjoy..
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZskRuu2FcA
    Human waste...

    Nature drunk and High
  • newy777
    newy777 Posts: 89
    Spags said:

    newy777 said:


    I

    Spags said:

    Regarding racism tho some of the parties in favour of leaving have shown they are fundamentally racist - did you see that UKIP billboard with the line of refugees that Farage was stood in front of today? Tbh both sides have turned this referendum into a shameful mess. Today's shooting makes me sick just thinking about it all. An isolated Britian right now couldnt be more of a backwards move. Hate to think of how much political capital both sides will make off the shooting. Still a week of this shit to go too...

    Farage video for you. Enjoy..
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZskRuu2FcA
    Human waste...

    Did you watch it? Would love to hear your counter points..
  • Spags
    Spags Leigh-on-Sea, UK Posts: 3,057
    Nah, seen enough from him.
    Nature drunk and High
  • newy777
    newy777 Posts: 89
    Spags said:

    Nah, seen enough from him.

    Yep, just whaat I thought. Thanks.
  • Spags
    Spags Leigh-on-Sea, UK Posts: 3,057
    edited June 2016
    No problem.

    Sorry, being childish this morning. Will watch vid when I get a chance...
    Post edited by Spags on
    Nature drunk and High
  • newy777
    newy777 Posts: 89
    “it comes down to an elemental choice: whether to restore the full self-government of this nation, or to continue living under a higher supranational regime, ruled by a European Council that we do not elect in any meaningful sense, and that the British people can never remove, even when it persists in error.”
    This is maybe the best quote I have seen to sum up what this referendum means for the british people. It is from Ambrose Evans Pritchard.http://www.democraticaudit.com/?p=22770
    Too often the leave campaign is tainted with the immigration problem that they want to have more say over. It´s purely democracy that has to be considered here. 59% of all british law is made by unelected officials in Brussels. This is immoral at it´s core. People need to wake up..really wake up. Look, Britain can always welcome more immigration if they choose to do so seeing it is best in their citizens interests. As it stands now they don´t have a say in what will happen. People are also being scared into voting for status quo because of uncertainty. When you have the former governor of the Bank of England come out very critical of the governments scare campaign you know people are being disingenuous in their claims of what would happen. A person like Mervyn King who is now withdrawn enough from the establishment after serving his time , should be taken serious when he calls BS.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3488483/A-disaster-zone-s-dominated-Germans-Ex-Bank-chief-King-s-verdict-euro-project.html
    I don´t live in the UK and I am not in the eurozone but I can tell you living in a democratic country will always be better than the contrary.
  • newy777
    newy777 Posts: 89
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emxumavBU3M
  • newy777
    newy777 Posts: 89
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaBe2AE9TNg
    This is a very good neutral assessment of Brexit. It starts at 8min15sec
    I urge any british person to consider the information presented.
  • Spags
    Spags Leigh-on-Sea, UK Posts: 3,057
    Was certainly interesting to hear a US perspective on it all - seems they favour the UK risking economic meltdown by cutting ties with the EU in pursuit of some notion of democratic freedom (something you seem to be championing too and in theory a worth cause no doubt). That stance is only really effective if I was to see myself not as European, but as British only and striving to reclaim some nostalgic view of my country as a once great Empire. Even then to risk financial recession over a number of years spent pulling away from the EU in the hope that the country could recover and become 'great' once more would still be far to big a gamble to consider.
    Nature drunk and High
  • newy777
    newy777 Posts: 89
    edited June 2016
    Spags said:

    Was certainly interesting to hear a US perspective on it all - seems they favour the UK risking economic meltdown by cutting ties with the EU in pursuit of some notion of democratic freedom (something you seem to be championing too and in theory a worth cause no doubt). That stance is only really effective if I was to see myself not as European, but as British only and striving to reclaim some nostalgic view of my country as a once great Empire. Even then to risk financial recession over a number of years spent pulling away from the EU in the hope that the country could recover and become 'great' once more would still be far to big a gamble to consider.

    It´s good , I think we are getting somewhere. I see good points to the european union in terms of bringing peace to once enemy countries. My view however is that the economic and politic union only works in good times. There is no doubt that europe has many problems ahead if they vote to be in or out. I actually thought 5 yrs ago that the union would have collapsed by now. Central banks have turned to negative interest rates to keep the game going just a bit longer. It has been my thesis that when sovereignty is returned back to the countries across Europe, it is only then things will turn the corner for the better. As I see it now, countries are trapped and the system is totally unsustainable. I have spent many years studying the economy and I genuinely feel that some pain has to happen which could well mean recession but I really think it would be better long term. The biggest argument for me is britain having their democracy back. I think it could inspire the other european countries to go the same way. The way the european union is now can´t work because it causes divides in populations because people feel they have no control of their country and the future. It causes the rise in extreme groups , right and left and that is a sad state of affairs.To me saying you should fight for the greater good is simply empty words. I like to look at the root cause of the problems that exist. It can sometimes be unpopular but I always try to find the best solutions for everyone. I understand you are thinking it is a gamble but in my opinion the contrary is a worse outcome. I am happy that you see my side of things because it too often has been glossed over and all attention on immigration. I feel many of the good vote for leave people have similar principles.

    Good luck to you..
    Post edited by newy777 on
  • Spags
    Spags Leigh-on-Sea, UK Posts: 3,057
    Sadly all your points are being heavily drowned out over here by the focus on immigration - as you rightly identify. The main debate seems to be one side wanting to control the borders and stop immigration (fear of losing 'our' jobs and the potential influx of terrorism) while the other side are looking on at them wondering why they are being so racist in their views (while highlighting the positives of free movement of labour - both culturally and on our National Health Service). So its a debate very much coloured by the nations relationship with race and what it means individually to be British. IMO of course. Its certainly been fascinating understanding how completely differently people view the UK.
    Nature drunk and High
  • Spags
    Spags Leigh-on-Sea, UK Posts: 3,057
    https://youtu.be/WVe-9VWIcCo
    Nature drunk and High
  • newy777
    newy777 Posts: 89
    I enjoyed this video too if you care to take a look. All the best..
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZLfo5_pst8
  • newy777
    newy777 Posts: 89
    Amazing speech about the demographic issue at stake.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzNj-hH8LkY
  • newy777
    newy777 Posts: 89
    ^ democratic not demographic
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    Close, but "leave" is ahead right now. I really didn't think exit was really a possibility.What the fuck do I know.
  • Noload
    Noload Monticello, Georgia Posts: 1,634
    edited June 2016
    Well done! It's Immigration Baby!!
    Post edited by Noload on
    www.twitter.com/robert_harbin
  • Spags
    Spags Leigh-on-Sea, UK Posts: 3,057
    Half the country is stunned and frankly shitting ourselves about the future...it's not like Brexit have even laid out a plan. Scotland and London went Remain, but Scotland bound to split off from us now. Such a horribly divisive result to wake up to. 16 million sad people in UK today.
    Nature drunk and High
  • rw160510
    rw160510 Posts: 1,072
    Spags said:

    Half the country is stunned and frankly shitting ourselves about the future...it's not like Brexit have even laid out a plan. Scotland and London went Remain, but Scotland bound to split off from us now. Such a horribly divisive result to wake up to. 16 million sad people in UK today.

    I kinda had an awful feeling when Newcastle was announced but went to bed praying it was an outlier. Bugger!
  • nigel
    nigel Posts: 267
    Well done - are you for real?!? It's a complete disaster. I for one never thought this would happen - it's actually a pretty scary lurch away from common sense and into the unknown. And if you think Trump will never become POTUS - let this be a lesson!

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