how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?
Godfather.
Just to play devil's advocate for a second... Suppose that the US gave in to all the hate-filled propaganda being thrown around about deporting Muslims:
1. Where do you suggest 3 million people should go? Before you say "back to where they came from", remember you are also including American-born Muslims in this
2. How do you propose they get there? Will the US foot the bill for mass migration?
3. If (again, devil's advocate), all 3 million people are a danger to the rest of us, what gives the US the right to force that problem onto another country? "We have decided that these people are dangerous, they're your problem now. See ya!"
4. Who's next? Once the Muslims are all gone, who do you deport next? How many others have to go for you to create your perfect country?
1) back to the country of their parental origin. 2) yes, and worth every penny but those who have money will be buying their own ticket. 3) look at my answer for question # 1 4) any person who enters the United States illegally.
ahhhhh that was fun ! what else ya got ?
Godfather.
so incredibly ironic from the guy who is worried about the government taking away his rights (his 2nd amendment rights) to suggest taking away the rights of millions of 'other' people based on their religion. utterly absurd.
how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?
Godfather.
Just to play devil's advocate for a second... Suppose that the US gave in to all the hate-filled propaganda being thrown around about deporting Muslims:
1. Where do you suggest 3 million people should go? Before you say "back to where they came from", remember you are also including American-born Muslims in this
2. How do you propose they get there? Will the US foot the bill for mass migration?
3. If (again, devil's advocate), all 3 million people are a danger to the rest of us, what gives the US the right to force that problem onto another country? "We have decided that these people are dangerous, they're your problem now. See ya!"
4. Who's next? Once the Muslims are all gone, who do you deport next? How many others have to go for you to create your perfect country?
1) back to the country of their parental origin. 2) yes, and worth every penny but those who have money will be buying their own ticket. 3) look at my answer for question # 1 4) any person who enters the United States illegally.
ahhhhh that was fun ! what else ya got ?
Godfather.
so incredibly ironic from the guy who is worried about the government taking away his rights (his 2nd amendment rights) to suggest taking away the rights of millions of 'other' people based on their religion. utterly absurd.
You've taken a disturbing turn for the worse. As much as you tried to justify your opinion as legitimate as anyone else's... it's not. It's extremism at best and saddening to hear from you.
I've defended you many times and vouched for what I think is your true character, but this latest revelation is indefensible. I still like you, but I hate your viewpoint.
ummm I'll give that some thought, thank you.
Godfather.
Peace brother!
if you and I sat and talked about the muslim and gun rights in our country you would probably find that I'm a little flexible, here on the train is a little hard to be flexible because folks take what you type and add to it .....so forgive me for having a little fun with it, yeah I know that's bad but in real life that's me, my experience with muslims is very limited I never met a muslim who wasn't rude towards me not that I've met a lot but that along with news and social media..I'll tell ya they don't seem all that inviting. anyway man have a great weekend and be safe.
Godfather.
You've never met a muslim that wasn't rude to you?
Do you require every person that you meet to announce their religious beliefs?
when I meet people..anybody ! I treat them as I expect to be treated in return but if you treat me badly that's a problem you'll end up dealing with eventually.
how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?
Godfather.
Just to play devil's advocate for a second... Suppose that the US gave in to all the hate-filled propaganda being thrown around about deporting Muslims:
1. Where do you suggest 3 million people should go? Before you say "back to where they came from", remember you are also including American-born Muslims in this
2. How do you propose they get there? Will the US foot the bill for mass migration?
3. If (again, devil's advocate), all 3 million people are a danger to the rest of us, what gives the US the right to force that problem onto another country? "We have decided that these people are dangerous, they're your problem now. See ya!"
4. Who's next? Once the Muslims are all gone, who do you deport next? How many others have to go for you to create your perfect country?
The Hispanics all of'em ..
so Jose you're good with illegal entry into the United States or just for Hispanic's ?
Godfather.
No I agree with immigration reform and secure borders , but to round up 11 million or what ever the number and get rid of all Muslims is absurd !
probably so....if they did the same back ground checks on muslims as they do for a weapons lic. we may not have this problem LOL !!!
it's so ironic to me that people who stand so staunchly behind their second ammendment rights don't seem to give a fuck about the first.
I don't recall the 1st am saying anything about the rights of non Americans.
Godfather.
and in your eyes someone who is born in America and has never lived in any other country....can be designated a non-American, simply because their parents were born in a different country?
I m pretty sure when you pledge your allegiance to a terrorist organization that is at war with the United states you instantly lose your citizenship.
I'm pretty sure he's not suggesting only deporting those who have pledged allegiance to a terrorist organisation
I'm more than pretty sure of the same. GF has very clearly indicated multiple times that he doesn't want Muslims in America. He didn't just mean non-Americans, he didn't just mean Muslims with terrorist leanings. He wants all Muslims out of America and he wants all Muslims locked out of America (i think he seems less sure about how in the hell this could be done, but he wants it). He has specifically said this more than once. I don't understand the desire to try and minimize his statements. Is it because they are just so totally uncomfortable that people can't even believe someone could really think it?
Is that true about instantly losing citizenship if you swear allegiance to a terrorist organization???? Or did you mean figuratively? That doesn't sound right.
http://hamilton.usconsulate.gov/loss_of_citizenship.html Causes of Citizenship Loss U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. These acts include:
Obtaining naturalization in a foreign state; Taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration to a foreign state or its political subdivisions; Entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state; Accepting employment with a foreign government if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) a declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position; Formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. consular officer outside the United States; Formally renouncing U.S. citizenship within the U.S. (but only "in time of war"); Conviction for an act of treason.
I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;
i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.
it's so ironic to me that people who stand so staunchly behind their second ammendment rights don't seem to give a fuck about the first.
I don't recall the 1st am saying anything about the rights of non Americans.
Godfather.
and in your eyes someone who is born in America and has never lived in any other country....can be designated a non-American, simply because their parents were born in a different country?
I m pretty sure when you pledge your allegiance to a terrorist organization that is at war with the United states you instantly lose your citizenship.
I'm pretty sure he's not suggesting only deporting those who have pledged allegiance to a terrorist organisation
I'm more than pretty sure of the same. GF has very clearly indicated multiple times that he doesn't want Muslims in America. He didn't just mean non-Americans, he didn't just mean Muslims with terrorist leanings. He wants all Muslims out of America and he wants all Muslims locked out of America (i think he seems less sure about how in the hell this could be done, but he wants it). He has specifically said this more than once. I don't understand the desire to try and minimize his statements. Is it because they are just so totally uncomfortable that people can't even believe someone could really think it?
Is that true about instantly losing citizenship if you swear allegiance to a terrorist organization???? Or did you mean figuratively? That doesn't sound right.
http://hamilton.usconsulate.gov/loss_of_citizenship.html Causes of Citizenship Loss U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. These acts include:
Obtaining naturalization in a foreign state; Taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration to a foreign state or its political subdivisions; Entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state; Accepting employment with a foreign government if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) a declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position; Formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. consular officer outside the United States; Formally renouncing U.S. citizenship within the U.S. (but only "in time of war"); Conviction for an act of treason.
I am not sure a terrorist group counts as a foreign state or its political subdivisions.... would be an interesting debate, but I don't know how that would hold up in court. I guess it would depend on the terrorist group. If it has taken over a government or has declared itself as one in a region during war, then I assume it would likely apply, but otherwise, I'm not so sure. But if it did count, I wonder if that would include American terrorist groups? I assume American terrorists get to stay Americans no matter what. These rules more seem written for the cold war era, when people would do shit like defect to Russia. I wonder when they were written.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;
i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.
I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
it's so ironic to me that people who stand so staunchly behind their second ammendment rights don't seem to give a fuck about the first.
I don't recall the 1st am saying anything about the rights of non Americans.
Godfather.
and in your eyes someone who is born in America and has never lived in any other country....can be designated a non-American, simply because their parents were born in a different country?
I m pretty sure when you pledge your allegiance to a terrorist organization that is at war with the United states you instantly lose your citizenship.
I'm pretty sure he's not suggesting only deporting those who have pledged allegiance to a terrorist organisation
I'm more than pretty sure of the same. GF has very clearly indicated multiple times that he doesn't want Muslims in America. He didn't just mean non-Americans, he didn't just mean Muslims with terrorist leanings. He wants all Muslims out of America and he wants all Muslims locked out of America (i think he seems less sure about how in the hell this could be done, but he wants it). He has specifically said this more than once. I don't understand the desire to try and minimize his statements. Is it because they are just so totally uncomfortable that people can't even believe someone could really think it?
Is that true about instantly losing citizenship if you swear allegiance to a terrorist organization???? Or did you mean figuratively? That doesn't sound right.
http://hamilton.usconsulate.gov/loss_of_citizenship.html Causes of Citizenship Loss U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. These acts include:
Obtaining naturalization in a foreign state; Taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration to a foreign state or its political subdivisions; Entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state; Accepting employment with a foreign government if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) a declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position; Formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. consular officer outside the United States; Formally renouncing U.S. citizenship within the U.S. (but only "in time of war"); Conviction for an act of treason.
I am not sure a terrorist group counts as a foreign state or its political subdivisions.... would be an interesting debate, but I don't know how that would hold up in court. I guess it would depend on the terrorist group. If it has taken over a government or has declared itself as one in a region during war, then I assume it would likely apply, but otherwise, I'm not so sure. But if it did count, I wonder if that would include American terrorist groups? I assume American terrorists get to stay Americans no matter what. These rules more seem written for the cold war era, when people would do shit like defect to Russia. I wonder when they were written.
ISIS is a foreign state that has engaged in hostilities against the US.....but I do agree that stuff like this was probably written during the Cold War. I mean if you leave america and go and join al queda i'm 99.9% sure you lose your U.S. citizenship. I'll do some more research.
I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;
i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.
I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;
i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.
I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.
No, I could also go out and fire a gun into a crowded room and scream my allegiance to ISIS while doing it and it still wouldn't have any meaning besides displaying how insane I obviously am and to suggest that I have some fucked up ideas. You need actual ties to the group for it to mean anything.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
GF never did clarify if be is proposing to deport American citizens if the parents are not.
Yes he did. He explicitly said that he would want that, up there when he replied to goldrush's questions. He said he thinks they should be sent to their parental country of origin (shocking, I know).
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;
i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.
I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.
No, I could also go out and fire a gun into a crowded room and scream my allegiance to ISIS while doing it and it still wouldn't have any meaning besides displaying how insane I obviously am and to suggest that I have some fucked up ideas. You need actual ties to the group for it to mean anything.
You mean like sharing the same religious ideologies? Like those kind of commonalities?
And, from what I gathered... he had plead allegiance to the group then committed the crime shortly afterwards. You, in your attempt to completely sever the relative factors, make it sound as if- right in the throes of his violence- he scratched his head for a second to think about why he was doing it and spit something random out.
I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;
i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.
I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.
No, I could also go out and fire a gun into a crowded room and scream my allegiance to ISIS while doing it and it still wouldn't have any meaning besides displaying how insane I obviously am and to suggest that I have some fucked up ideas. You need actual ties to the group for it to mean anything.
You mean like sharing the same religious ideologies? Like those kind of commonalities?
And, from what I gathered... he had plead allegiance to the group then committed the crime shortly afterwards. You, in your attempt to completely sever the relative factors, make it sound as if- right in the throes of his violence- he scratched his head for a second to think about why he was doing it and spit something random out.
Come on, man.
ISIS isn't a geographical entity/country, which is stated very specifically.
GF never did clarify if be is proposing to deport American citizens if the parents are not.
Yes he did. He explicitly said that he would want that, up there when he replied to goldrush's questions. He said he thinks they should be sent to their parental country of origin (shocking, I know).
Ok, I did not see that. Not surprised.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;
i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.
I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.
No, I could also go out and fire a gun into a crowded room and scream my allegiance to ISIS while doing it and it still wouldn't have any meaning besides displaying how insane I obviously am and to suggest that I have some fucked up ideas. You need actual ties to the group for it to mean anything.
You mean like sharing the same religious ideologies? Like those kind of commonalities?
And, from what I gathered... he had plead allegiance to the group then committed the crime shortly afterwards. You, in your attempt to completely sever the relative factors, make it sound as if- right in the throes of his violence- he scratched his head for a second to think about why he was doing it and spit something random out.
Come on, man.
i could be wrong, but didn't he make that declaration in a phone call DURING the crime? i know he made several calls during the crime.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;
i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.
I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.
No, I could also go out and fire a gun into a crowded room and scream my allegiance to ISIS while doing it and it still wouldn't have any meaning besides displaying how insane I obviously am and to suggest that I have some fucked up ideas. You need actual ties to the group for it to mean anything.
You mean like sharing the same religious ideologies? Like those kind of commonalities?
And, from what I gathered... he had plead allegiance to the group then committed the crime shortly afterwards. You, in your attempt to completely sever the relative factors, make it sound as if- right in the throes of his violence- he scratched his head for a second to think about why he was doing it and spit something random out.
Come on, man.
I'm not saying any of that (i never even mentioned commonalities). I am saying that just because the guy said he has an allegience to ISIS it doesn't mean he has anything to do with ISIS. He never had any contact with them, ISIS had never heard of him, he wasn't in contact with a single member of ISIS as far as I have ever heard. I am saying that just saying the words "I support ISIS!" and then committing a crime is not grounds for the US government to take away your citizenship (i am not even sure that actuallybeing connected to ISIS could do that, since i don't think ISIS can be considered a foreign government. ISIS certainly isn't acknowledge by the US as a government).
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;
i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.
I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.
No, I could also go out and fire a gun into a crowded room and scream my allegiance to ISIS while doing it and it still wouldn't have any meaning besides displaying how insane I obviously am and to suggest that I have some fucked up ideas. You need actual ties to the group for it to mean anything.
You mean like sharing the same religious ideologies? Like those kind of commonalities?
And, from what I gathered... he had plead allegiance to the group then committed the crime shortly afterwards. You, in your attempt to completely sever the relative factors, make it sound as if- right in the throes of his violence- he scratched his head for a second to think about why he was doing it and spit something random out.
Come on, man.
i could be wrong, but didn't he make that declaration in a phone call DURING the crime? i know he made several calls during the crime.
I had thought I read he had made his proclamation on line beforehand. I could be wrong too.
It doesn't really change much either way in my mind. ISIS is a mindset that he chose to be associated with given the fundamental framework that existed as common ground.
I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;
i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.
I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.
No, I could also go out and fire a gun into a crowded room and scream my allegiance to ISIS while doing it and it still wouldn't have any meaning besides displaying how insane I obviously am and to suggest that I have some fucked up ideas. You need actual ties to the group for it to mean anything.
You mean like sharing the same religious ideologies? Like those kind of commonalities?
And, from what I gathered... he had plead allegiance to the group then committed the crime shortly afterwards. You, in your attempt to completely sever the relative factors, make it sound as if- right in the throes of his violence- he scratched his head for a second to think about why he was doing it and spit something random out.
Come on, man.
ISIS isn't a geographical entity/country, which is stated very specifically.
I'm not too sure why I got this response? I never implied what you're speaking against.
how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?
Godfather.
Just to play devil's advocate for a second... Suppose that the US gave in to all the hate-filled propaganda being thrown around about deporting Muslims:
1. Where do you suggest 3 million people should go? Before you say "back to where they came from", remember you are also including American-born Muslims in this
2. How do you propose they get there? Will the US foot the bill for mass migration?
3. If (again, devil's advocate), all 3 million people are a danger to the rest of us, what gives the US the right to force that problem onto another country? "We have decided that these people are dangerous, they're your problem now. See ya!"
4. Who's next? Once the Muslims are all gone, who do you deport next? How many others have to go for you to create your perfect country?
1) back to the country of their parental origin. 2) yes, and worth every penny but those who have money will be buying their own ticket. 3) look at my answer for question # 1 4) any person who enters the United States illegally.
ahhhhh that was fun ! what else ya got ?
Godfather.
What else have I got? Ok...
1. American-born Muslims who have children. If the child is also raised Muslim, but the 'country of their parental origin' is America, where are you going to send them? How many generations are you going to go back?
2. If you're happy to sink the US into an economic recession by funding the cost then so be it. How do you decide who can afford to pay their own way?
3. See my response to your answer 1
4. Let's pick a random example then. I know, what about Italian-Americans who migrated there and have caused trouble in the past? Specifically, maybe the Mafia, Godfather? Depending on question 1 and how far back you want to go, everyone in the US that is not of Native American descent is an immigrant, no?
Post edited by goldrush on
“Do not postpone happiness”
(Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)
everybody want's to add to a statement and you have done so as well, your "what if" questions and comments do not apply to my statement so keep your opinion and I'll keep mine.
everybody want's to add to a statement and you have done so as well, your "what if" questions and comments do not apply to my statement so keep your opinion and I'll keep mine.
Godfather.
They apply directly to your statement.... I think maybe you just found the questions to uncomfortable to answer.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
everybody want's to add to a statement and you have done so as well, your "what if" questions and comments do not apply to my statement so keep your opinion and I'll keep mine.
Godfather.
They apply directly to your statement.... I think maybe you just found the questions to uncomfortable to answer.
I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;
i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.
I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.
No, I could also go out and fire a gun into a crowded room and scream my allegiance to ISIS while doing it and it still wouldn't have any meaning besides displaying how insane I obviously am and to suggest that I have some fucked up ideas. You need actual ties to the group for it to mean anything.
You mean like sharing the same religious ideologies? Like those kind of commonalities?
And, from what I gathered... he had plead allegiance to the group then committed the crime shortly afterwards. You, in your attempt to completely sever the relative factors, make it sound as if- right in the throes of his violence- he scratched his head for a second to think about why he was doing it and spit something random out.
Come on, man.
i could be wrong, but didn't he make that declaration in a phone call DURING the crime? i know he made several calls during the crime.
I had thought I read he had made his proclamation on line beforehand. I could be wrong too.
It doesn't really change much either way in my mind. ISIS is a mindset that he chose to be associated with given the fundamental framework that existed as common ground.
He pledged allegiance to ISIS, Hamas, & Al Qeuda.... (they hate each other)
Which is nuts in it's self.. like saying your a fan of the Yankees and Red Sox
"The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;
i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.
I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.
No, I could also go out and fire a gun into a crowded room and scream my allegiance to ISIS while doing it and it still wouldn't have any meaning besides displaying how insane I obviously am and to suggest that I have some fucked up ideas. You need actual ties to the group for it to mean anything.
You mean like sharing the same religious ideologies? Like those kind of commonalities?
And, from what I gathered... he had plead allegiance to the group then committed the crime shortly afterwards. You, in your attempt to completely sever the relative factors, make it sound as if- right in the throes of his violence- he scratched his head for a second to think about why he was doing it and spit something random out.
Come on, man.
i could be wrong, but didn't he make that declaration in a phone call DURING the crime? i know he made several calls during the crime.
I had thought I read he had made his proclamation on line beforehand. I could be wrong too.
It doesn't really change much either way in my mind. ISIS is a mindset that he chose to be associated with given the fundamental framework that existed as common ground.
He pledged allegiance to ISIS, Hamas, & Al Qeuda.... (they hate each other)
Which is nuts in it's self.. like saying your a fan of the Yankees and Red Sox
I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;
i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.
I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.
No, I could also go out and fire a gun into a crowded room and scream my allegiance to ISIS while doing it and it still wouldn't have any meaning besides displaying how insane I obviously am and to suggest that I have some fucked up ideas. You need actual ties to the group for it to mean anything.
You mean like sharing the same religious ideologies? Like those kind of commonalities?
And, from what I gathered... he had plead allegiance to the group then committed the crime shortly afterwards. You, in your attempt to completely sever the relative factors, make it sound as if- right in the throes of his violence- he scratched his head for a second to think about why he was doing it and spit something random out.
Come on, man.
i could be wrong, but didn't he make that declaration in a phone call DURING the crime? i know he made several calls during the crime.
I had thought I read he had made his proclamation on line beforehand. I could be wrong too.
It doesn't really change much either way in my mind. ISIS is a mindset that he chose to be associated with given the fundamental framework that existed as common ground.
He pledged allegiance to ISIS, Hamas, & Al Qeuda.... (they hate each other)
Which is nuts in it's self.. like saying your a fan of the Yankees and Red Sox
Ah yes, sports. When you got nothin...
It's an analogy, representing how confused he was. And it's a good one. The only thing we can assume is you don't understand how ISIS and Al Qaeda are diametrically opposed in the Muslim world.
It's like saying you are a Shia AND a Sunni. Does that help?
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Causes of Citizenship Loss
U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. These acts include:
Obtaining naturalization in a foreign state;
Taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration to a foreign state or its political subdivisions;
Entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state;
Accepting employment with a foreign government if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) a declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position;
Formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. consular officer outside the United States;
Formally renouncing U.S. citizenship within the U.S. (but only "in time of war");
Conviction for an act of treason.
i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.
These rules more seem written for the cold war era, when people would do shit like defect to Russia. I wonder when they were written.
I mean if you leave america and go and join al queda i'm 99.9% sure you lose your U.S. citizenship. I'll do some more research.
we will find a way, we will find our place
And, from what I gathered... he had plead allegiance to the group then committed the crime shortly afterwards. You, in your attempt to completely sever the relative factors, make it sound as if- right in the throes of his violence- he scratched his head for a second to think about why he was doing it and spit something random out.
Come on, man.
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we will find a way, we will find our place
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
It doesn't really change much either way in my mind. ISIS is a mindset that he chose to be associated with given the fundamental framework that existed as common ground.
It's probably me.
1. American-born Muslims who have children. If the child is also raised Muslim, but the 'country of their parental origin' is America, where are you going to send them? How many generations are you going to go back?
2. If you're happy to sink the US into an economic recession by funding the cost then so be it. How do you decide who can afford to pay their own way?
3. See my response to your answer 1
4. Let's pick a random example then. I know, what about Italian-Americans who migrated there and have caused trouble in the past? Specifically, maybe the Mafia, Godfather? Depending on question 1 and how far back you want to go, everyone in the US that is not of Native American descent is an immigrant, no?
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Godfather.
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Godfather.
Which is nuts in it's self.. like saying your a fan of the Yankees and Red Sox
When you got nothin...
It's like saying you are a Shia AND a Sunni. Does that help?