Bernie Sanders

Free

Cliffy6745 said:

Free said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Free said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

The Bernie supporters will not and should not rally to her side

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/05/politics/bernie-sanders-fbi-hillary-clinton-email/index.html

Seems like Bernie probably will though, so I think many Bernie supporters will too.

Doubt it.

You can only speak for one person - yourself. Bernie supporters seem to have placed their trust in Bernie... so once he supports Hillary (he did say he'd vote for her if he wasn't in the race, yes?), why would their trust in him and his decisions suddenly disappear? They all seem to think that he understands what it better for America... and he thinks voting for Hillary over Trump would be better for America.

Unless people can't think for themselves, and only do what their "God" tells them to do, it's a pretty sure thing that people will do what they want. And vote how they want. The majority of Bernie supporters after he lost California said they would never vote for Hillary. We'll see if that changes.

Well yeah, that's kind of my point. A lot of people can't think for themselves. I see no reason to call politicians anyone's "God", but whatever.
Do you have a link to that poll that says the majority of Bernie supporters won't vote for Hillary? I'd like to see the numbers for myself.

Do you think the same way about Trump if he were to tell his followers to vote for someone else and they would? Or Hillery even? I just don't get this mindframe that voters will just vote who their losing candidate says to. That's not really how it is. Sounds good, but not reality.

Sanders supporters support him for his integrity and honesty, no politician has those two qualities, so to vote for a typical career politician who lies for a living, well, I can only speak for myself, but it's not gonna happen.

But here's the link you're looking for. http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512170043

Um, one would hope they mostly support him for his policies and not his personality. And if Bernie votes for a candidate because feels his policies fall more in line with a candidate he supports, it would make sense for his supporters to do the same.

No kidding. The honesty and integrity just happen to go along with the policies that don't favor corporations and instead rather the people and their interests. They just happen to go hand-in-hand. Bernie has been saying he is about defeating Trump. That's what he's doing.

He doesn't believe in Hillary's policies, The DNC was going against everything that he stood for, that's what he's railing against is that the democratic platform adopts some of his policies and that will be the only way he endorses Hillary. That's what's going on right now. She needs US, His supporters, and the only way that will happen is if she adopts some of his policies.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/bernie-sanders-democratic-platform-225070

But it still doesn't guarantee that his supporters will vote for her.

Being pro-TPP, pro-Israel, pro-fracking, etc. will not lead to a Sanders endorsement.

Then why will Bernie support her?

??

My post was pretty straightforward.

So Bernie is going to support Hillary to defeat trump even though he doesn't agree with her policies? Is that what you would call integrity?

I'm not going to repeat myself just read my post.

Cliffy6745

Free said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Free said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Free said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

The Bernie supporters will not and should not rally to her side

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/05/politics/bernie-sanders-fbi-hillary-clinton-email/index.html

Seems like Bernie probably will though, so I think many Bernie supporters will too.

Doubt it.

You can only speak for one person - yourself. Bernie supporters seem to have placed their trust in Bernie... so once he supports Hillary (he did say he'd vote for her if he wasn't in the race, yes?), why would their trust in him and his decisions suddenly disappear? They all seem to think that he understands what it better for America... and he thinks voting for Hillary over Trump would be better for America.

Unless people can't think for themselves, and only do what their "God" tells them to do, it's a pretty sure thing that people will do what they want. And vote how they want. The majority of Bernie supporters after he lost California said they would never vote for Hillary. We'll see if that changes.

Well yeah, that's kind of my point. A lot of people can't think for themselves. I see no reason to call politicians anyone's "God", but whatever.
Do you have a link to that poll that says the majority of Bernie supporters won't vote for Hillary? I'd like to see the numbers for myself.

Do you think the same way about Trump if he were to tell his followers to vote for someone else and they would? Or Hillery even? I just don't get this mindframe that voters will just vote who their losing candidate says to. That's not really how it is. Sounds good, but not reality.

Sanders supporters support him for his integrity and honesty, no politician has those two qualities, so to vote for a typical career politician who lies for a living, well, I can only speak for myself, but it's not gonna happen.

But here's the link you're looking for. http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512170043

Um, one would hope they mostly support him for his policies and not his personality. And if Bernie votes for a candidate because feels his policies fall more in line with a candidate he supports, it would make sense for his supporters to do the same.

No kidding. The honesty and integrity just happen to go along with the policies that don't favor corporations and instead rather the people and their interests. They just happen to go hand-in-hand. Bernie has been saying he is about defeating Trump. That's what he's doing.

He doesn't believe in Hillary's policies, The DNC was going against everything that he stood for, that's what he's railing against is that the democratic platform adopts some of his policies and that will be the only way he endorses Hillary. That's what's going on right now. She needs US, His supporters, and the only way that will happen is if she adopts some of his policies.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/bernie-sanders-democratic-platform-225070

But it still doesn't guarantee that his supporters will vote for her.

Being pro-TPP, pro-Israel, pro-fracking, etc. will not lead to a Sanders endorsement.

Then why will Bernie support her?

??

My post was pretty straightforward.

So Bernie is going to support Hillary to defeat trump even though he doesn't agree with her policies? Is that what you would call integrity?

I'm not going to repeat myself just read my post.

Read it. You are contradicting yourself. You say he is honest and has integrity yet he is going to vote for someone he opposes.

Or perhaps their policies are a lot closer than the Bernie cult can see....

Free

Cliffy6745 said:

Free said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Free said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Free said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

The Bernie supporters will not and should not rally to her side

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/05/politics/bernie-sanders-fbi-hillary-clinton-email/index.html

Seems like Bernie probably will though, so I think many Bernie supporters will too.

Doubt it.

You can only speak for one person - yourself. Bernie supporters seem to have placed their trust in Bernie... so once he supports Hillary (he did say he'd vote for her if he wasn't in the race, yes?), why would their trust in him and his decisions suddenly disappear? They all seem to think that he understands what it better for America... and he thinks voting for Hillary over Trump would be better for America.

Unless people can't think for themselves, and only do what their "God" tells them to do, it's a pretty sure thing that people will do what they want. And vote how they want. The majority of Bernie supporters after he lost California said they would never vote for Hillary. We'll see if that changes.

Well yeah, that's kind of my point. A lot of people can't think for themselves. I see no reason to call politicians anyone's "God", but whatever.
Do you have a link to that poll that says the majority of Bernie supporters won't vote for Hillary? I'd like to see the numbers for myself.

Do you think the same way about Trump if he were to tell his followers to vote for someone else and they would? Or Hillery even? I just don't get this mindframe that voters will just vote who their losing candidate says to. That's not really how it is. Sounds good, but not reality.

Sanders supporters support him for his integrity and honesty, no politician has those two qualities, so to vote for a typical career politician who lies for a living, well, I can only speak for myself, but it's not gonna happen.

But here's the link you're looking for. http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512170043

Um, one would hope they mostly support him for his policies and not his personality. And if Bernie votes for a candidate because feels his policies fall more in line with a candidate he supports, it would make sense for his supporters to do the same.

No kidding. The honesty and integrity just happen to go along with the policies that don't favor corporations and instead rather the people and their interests. They just happen to go hand-in-hand. Bernie has been saying he is about defeating Trump. That's what he's doing.

He doesn't believe in Hillary's policies, The DNC was going against everything that he stood for, that's what he's railing against is that the democratic platform adopts some of his policies and that will be the only way he endorses Hillary. That's what's going on right now. She needs US, His supporters, and the only way that will happen is if she adopts some of his policies.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/bernie-sanders-democratic-platform-225070

But it still doesn't guarantee that his supporters will vote for her.

Being pro-TPP, pro-Israel, pro-fracking, etc. will not lead to a Sanders endorsement.

Then why will Bernie support her?

??

My post was pretty straightforward.

So Bernie is going to support Hillary to defeat trump even though he doesn't agree with her policies? Is that what you would call integrity?

I'm not going to repeat myself just read my post.

Read it. You are contradicting yourself. You say he is honest and has integrity yet he is going to vote for someone he opposes.

Or perhaps their policies are a lot closer than the Bernie cult can see....

Sounds like you don't know anything about either of their policies and what's going on currently.

Cliffy6745

Free said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Free said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Free said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Free said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

The Bernie supporters will not and should not rally to her side

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/05/politics/bernie-sanders-fbi-hillary-clinton-email/index.html

Seems like Bernie probably will though, so I think many Bernie supporters will too.

Doubt it.

You can only speak for one person - yourself. Bernie supporters seem to have placed their trust in Bernie... so once he supports Hillary (he did say he'd vote for her if he wasn't in the race, yes?), why would their trust in him and his decisions suddenly disappear? They all seem to think that he understands what it better for America... and he thinks voting for Hillary over Trump would be better for America.

Unless people can't think for themselves, and only do what their "God" tells them to do, it's a pretty sure thing that people will do what they want. And vote how they want. The majority of Bernie supporters after he lost California said they would never vote for Hillary. We'll see if that changes.

Well yeah, that's kind of my point. A lot of people can't think for themselves. I see no reason to call politicians anyone's "God", but whatever.
Do you have a link to that poll that says the majority of Bernie supporters won't vote for Hillary? I'd like to see the numbers for myself.

Do you think the same way about Trump if he were to tell his followers to vote for someone else and they would? Or Hillery even? I just don't get this mindframe that voters will just vote who their losing candidate says to. That's not really how it is. Sounds good, but not reality.

Sanders supporters support him for his integrity and honesty, no politician has those two qualities, so to vote for a typical career politician who lies for a living, well, I can only speak for myself, but it's not gonna happen.

But here's the link you're looking for. http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512170043

Um, one would hope they mostly support him for his policies and not his personality. And if Bernie votes for a candidate because feels his policies fall more in line with a candidate he supports, it would make sense for his supporters to do the same.

No kidding. The honesty and integrity just happen to go along with the policies that don't favor corporations and instead rather the people and their interests. They just happen to go hand-in-hand. Bernie has been saying he is about defeating Trump. That's what he's doing.

He doesn't believe in Hillary's policies, The DNC was going against everything that he stood for, that's what he's railing against is that the democratic platform adopts some of his policies and that will be the only way he endorses Hillary. That's what's going on right now. She needs US, His supporters, and the only way that will happen is if she adopts some of his policies.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/bernie-sanders-democratic-platform-225070

But it still doesn't guarantee that his supporters will vote for her.

Being pro-TPP, pro-Israel, pro-fracking, etc. will not lead to a Sanders endorsement.

Then why will Bernie support her?

??

My post was pretty straightforward.

So Bernie is going to support Hillary to defeat trump even though he doesn't agree with her policies? Is that what you would call integrity?

I'm not going to repeat myself just read my post.

Read it. You are contradicting yourself. You say he is honest and has integrity yet he is going to vote for someone he opposes.

Or perhaps their policies are a lot closer than the Bernie cult can see....

Sounds like you don't know anything about either of their policies are what's going on currently.

Yep, that's it

Yet, Bernie is going to support her...

I do get it. She's scratching his back.

PJ_Soul

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

The Bernie supporters will not and should not rally to her side

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/05/politics/bernie-sanders-fbi-hillary-clinton-email/index.html

Seems like Bernie probably will though, so I think many Bernie supporters will too.

Doubt it.

You can only speak for one person - yourself. Bernie supporters seem to have placed their trust in Bernie... so once he supports Hillary (he did say he'd vote for her if he wasn't in the race, yes?), why would their trust in him and his decisions suddenly disappear? They all seem to think that he understands what it better for America... and he thinks voting for Hillary over Trump would be better for America.

Unless people can't think for themselves, and only do what their "God" tells them to do, it's a pretty sure thing that people will do what they want. And vote how they want. The majority of Bernie supporters after he lost California said they would never vote for Hillary. We'll see if that changes.

Well yeah, that's kind of my point. A lot of people can't think for themselves. I see no reason to call politicians anyone's "God", but whatever.
Do you have a link to that poll that says the majority of Bernie supporters won't vote for Hillary? I'd like to see the numbers for myself.

Do you think the same way about Trump if he were to tell his followers to vote for someone else and they would? Or Hillery even? I just don't get this mindframe that voters will just vote who their losing candidate says to. That's not really how it is. Sounds good, but not reality.

Sanders supporters support him for his integrity and honesty, no politician has those two qualities, so to vote for a typical career politician who lies for a living, well, I can only speak for myself, but it's not gonna happen.

But here's the link you're looking for. http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512170043

Of course, I wasn't just talking about Bernie supporters.

Oh, I meant a real poll.

What exactly do you call a real poll? Not only are the polls brought to you by the media pure bullshit, but since you asked, this is a viewer voter poll voted in by real sanders supporters to a pro-Sanders news source. You asked for it.

I don't think polls are so great either, but at least a post a poll that isn't just for viewers of a political talk show. The poll you posted is equivalent to a poll done by John Stewart asking his viewers to say whether or not they will vote for Trump. It is completely meaningless because it's only participants are a select audience with a well-known political leaning. I'd at least like to see a poll that actually covers a random selection of the population. You're the one who claimed that the majority of a group thinks a certain way, not me. If you're going to make that claim you need to have SOME kind of evidence that shows that, and I can't think of any way to show that besides a poll. If you think polls are 100% meaningless, then don't make sweeping comments like that, since you have no way to back them up.

mrussel1

Free said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Free said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

The Bernie supporters will not and should not rally to her side

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/05/politics/bernie-sanders-fbi-hillary-clinton-email/index.html

Seems like Bernie probably will though, so I think many Bernie supporters will too.

Doubt it.

You can only speak for one person - yourself. Bernie supporters seem to have placed their trust in Bernie... so once he supports Hillary (he did say he'd vote for her if he wasn't in the race, yes?), why would their trust in him and his decisions suddenly disappear? They all seem to think that he understands what it better for America... and he thinks voting for Hillary over Trump would be better for America.

Unless people can't think for themselves, and only do what their "God" tells them to do, it's a pretty sure thing that people will do what they want. And vote how they want. The majority of Bernie supporters after he lost California said they would never vote for Hillary. We'll see if that changes.

Well yeah, that's kind of my point. A lot of people can't think for themselves. I see no reason to call politicians anyone's "God", but whatever.
Do you have a link to that poll that says the majority of Bernie supporters won't vote for Hillary? I'd like to see the numbers for myself.

Do you think the same way about Trump if he were to tell his followers to vote for someone else and they would? Or Hillery even? I just don't get this mindframe that voters will just vote who their losing candidate says to. That's not really how it is. Sounds good, but not reality.

Sanders supporters support him for his integrity and honesty, no politician has those two qualities, so to vote for a typical career politician who lies for a living, well, I can only speak for myself, but it's not gonna happen.

But here's the link you're looking for. http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512170043

Um, one would hope they mostly support him for his policies and not his personality. And if Bernie votes for a candidate because feels his policies fall more in line with a candidate he supports, it would make sense for his supporters to do the same.

No kidding. The honesty and integrity just happen to go along with the policies that don't favor corporations and instead rather the people and their interests. They just happen to go hand-in-hand. Bernie has been saying he is about defeating Trump. That's what he's doing.

He doesn't believe in Hillary's policies, The DNC was going against everything that he stood for, that's what he's railing against is that the democratic platform adopts some of his policies and that will be the only way he endorses Hillary. That's what's going on right now. She needs US, His supporters, and the only way that will happen is if she adopts some of his policies.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/bernie-sanders-democratic-platform-225070

But it still doesn't guarantee that his supporters will vote for her.

Being pro-TPP, pro-Israel, pro-fracking, etc. will not lead to a Sanders endorsement.

Then why will Bernie support her?

??

My post was pretty straightforward.

EDIT: have you seen the news about Hillary adopting his free college tuition?

That is just one reason why he will support her. He's pushing for TPP next.

Huge mistake to fight TPP. People who think manufacturing is the future are either delusional or willfully pandering to a set of constituents when the truth is too painful. Free trade creates white collar jobs in the States. That is the future.

PJ_Soul

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Exactly. If Bernie's followers decide that his own political decision to support Hillary in an effort to best serve Americans (under the circumstances) is completely fucked, then I'd say that they made a mistake following him in the first place, since they obviously don't trust his judgment or his political decisions.

If you know anything about Bernie, The best way to serve Americans is to have them rise up and be the leaders themselves. His campaign is never been about him solely, it was about him raising up all of us so all of us can lead. Which is happening. More and more progressives are taking the lead and running for office... For the right reasons.

Your knee-jerk reaction it to Sanders and what his supporters should do, it's pretty uncalled for. No one with a brain follows blindly, so stop making this about "how poor of a leader he is if his supporters don't get behind him and vote for Hillary".

What knee-jerk reaction?
You know I am a big fan of Bernie's, right?

Free

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Exactly. If Bernie's followers decide that his own political decision to support Hillary in an effort to best serve Americans (under the circumstances) is completely fucked, then I'd say that they made a mistake following him in the first place, since they obviously don't trust his judgment or his political decisions.

If you know anything about Bernie, The best way to serve Americans is to have them rise up and be the leaders themselves. His campaign is never been about him solely, it was about him raising up all of us so all of us can lead. Which is happening. More and more progressives are taking the lead and running for office... For the right reasons.

Your knee-jerk reaction it to Sanders and what his supporters should do, it's pretty uncalled for. No one with a brain follows blindly, so stop making this about "how poor of a leader he is if his supporters don't get behind him and vote for Hillary".

What knee-jerk reaction?
You know I am a big fan of Bernie, right?

It's really hard to tell.

PJ_Soul

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Exactly. If Bernie's followers decide that his own political decision to support Hillary in an effort to best serve Americans (under the circumstances) is completely fucked, then I'd say that they made a mistake following him in the first place, since they obviously don't trust his judgment or his political decisions.

If you know anything about Bernie, The best way to serve Americans is to have them rise up and be the leaders themselves. His campaign is never been about him solely, it was about him raising up all of us so all of us can lead. Which is happening. More and more progressives are taking the lead and running for office... For the right reasons.

Your knee-jerk reaction it to Sanders and what his supporters should do, it's pretty uncalled for. No one with a brain follows blindly, so stop making this about "how poor of a leader he is if his supporters don't get behind him and vote for Hillary".

What knee-jerk reaction?
You know I am a big fan of Bernie, right?

It's really hard to tell.

I'm not surprised, because you are completely unwilling to look at things objectively.

Free

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Exactly. If Bernie's followers decide that his own political decision to support Hillary in an effort to best serve Americans (under the circumstances) is completely fucked, then I'd say that they made a mistake following him in the first place, since they obviously don't trust his judgment or his political decisions.

If you know anything about Bernie, The best way to serve Americans is to have them rise up and be the leaders themselves. His campaign is never been about him solely, it was about him raising up all of us so all of us can lead. Which is happening. More and more progressives are taking the lead and running for office... For the right reasons.

Your knee-jerk reaction it to Sanders and what his supporters should do, it's pretty uncalled for. No one with a brain follows blindly, so stop making this about "how poor of a leader he is if his supporters don't get behind him and vote for Hillary".

What knee-jerk reaction?
You know I am a big fan of Bernie, right?

It's really hard to tell.

I'm not surprised, because you are completely unwilling to look at things objectively.

If you call blaming a leader for not getting his supporters to vote for Hillary objective? I have nothing.

PJ_Soul

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Exactly. If Bernie's followers decide that his own political decision to support Hillary in an effort to best serve Americans (under the circumstances) is completely fucked, then I'd say that they made a mistake following him in the first place, since they obviously don't trust his judgment or his political decisions.

If you know anything about Bernie, The best way to serve Americans is to have them rise up and be the leaders themselves. His campaign is never been about him solely, it was about him raising up all of us so all of us can lead. Which is happening. More and more progressives are taking the lead and running for office... For the right reasons.

Your knee-jerk reaction it to Sanders and what his supporters should do, it's pretty uncalled for. No one with a brain follows blindly, so stop making this about "how poor of a leader he is if his supporters don't get behind him and vote for Hillary".

What knee-jerk reaction?
You know I am a big fan of Bernie, right?

It's really hard to tell.

I'm not surprised, because you are completely unwilling to look at things objectively.

If you call blaming a leader for not getting his supporters to vote for Hillary objective? I have nothing.

I never blamed him for not getting his supporters to vote for Hillary. I think it's really weird that that is how you're reading it.

Cliffy6745

Deleted by Admin
Discuss, disagree and debate politely....
http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/228366/forum-posting-guidelines

Free

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Exactly. If Bernie's followers decide that his own political decision to support Hillary in an effort to best serve Americans (under the circumstances) is completely fucked, then I'd say that they made a mistake following him in the first place, since they obviously don't trust his judgment or his political decisions.

If you know anything about Bernie, The best way to serve Americans is to have them rise up and be the leaders themselves. His campaign is never been about him solely, it was about him raising up all of us so all of us can lead. Which is happening. More and more progressives are taking the lead and running for office... For the right reasons.

Your knee-jerk reaction it to Sanders and what his supporters should do, it's pretty uncalled for. No one with a brain follows blindly, so stop making this about "how poor of a leader he is if his supporters don't get behind him and vote for Hillary".

What knee-jerk reaction?
You know I am a big fan of Bernie, right?

It's really hard to tell.

I'm not surprised, because you are completely unwilling to look at things objectively.

If you call blaming a leader for not getting his supporters to vote for Hillary objective? I have nothing.

I never blamed him for not getting his supporters to vote for Hillary. I think it's really weird that that is how you're reading it.

You are aware of 3rd party candidates, are you not?

PJ_Soul

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Exactly. If Bernie's followers decide that his own political decision to support Hillary in an effort to best serve Americans (under the circumstances) is completely fucked, then I'd say that they made a mistake following him in the first place, since they obviously don't trust his judgment or his political decisions.

If you know anything about Bernie, The best way to serve Americans is to have them rise up and be the leaders themselves. His campaign is never been about him solely, it was about him raising up all of us so all of us can lead. Which is happening. More and more progressives are taking the lead and running for office... For the right reasons.

Your knee-jerk reaction it to Sanders and what his supporters should do, it's pretty uncalled for. No one with a brain follows blindly, so stop making this about "how poor of a leader he is if his supporters don't get behind him and vote for Hillary".

What knee-jerk reaction?
You know I am a big fan of Bernie, right?

It's really hard to tell.

I'm not surprised, because you are completely unwilling to look at things objectively.

If you call blaming a leader for not getting his supporters to vote for Hillary objective? I have nothing.

I never blamed him for not getting his supporters to vote for Hillary. I think it's really weird that that is how you're reading it.

You are aware of 3rd party candidates, are you not?

Well I am Canadian, so yeah, I understand the concept, lol. I don't know what your point is.

what dreams

mrussel1 said:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/sanders-clinton-endorsement-convention-225176

Looks like it is coming. I'm not sure I like the free tuition deal at all... I think it's a political liability and economically untenable considering the cost of tuition. But I'll wait for details before getting too worked up about it. I'll be annoyed if I have to pay for my kids' tuition and pay for other's as well.

And I have no kids. I'll be highly annoyed if i have to pay for anybody's!!

Here's a solution. Don't have kids if you can't afford them!!!

PJ_Soul

what dreams said:

mrussel1 said:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/sanders-clinton-endorsement-convention-225176

Looks like it is coming. I'm not sure I like the free tuition deal at all... I think it's a political liability and economically untenable considering the cost of tuition. But I'll wait for details before getting too worked up about it. I'll be annoyed if I have to pay for my kids' tuition and pay for other's as well.

And I have no kids. I'll be highly annoyed if i have to pay for anybody's!!

Here's a solution. Don't have kids if you can't afford them!!!

I have no kids and am very happy for my tax dollars to go towards affordable education (it's subsidized in Canada). You do it for kids up to the age of 18, so why would you balk at paying it until they're 22 and just when education gets really useful?
And wtf? Anyone who can't pay for their adult kids to attend US post-secondary shouldn't have any?? You're not serious, are you??
I guess you really love the idea of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, eh?

mrussel1

PJ_Soul said:

what dreams said:

mrussel1 said:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/sanders-clinton-endorsement-convention-225176

Looks like it is coming. I'm not sure I like the free tuition deal at all... I think it's a political liability and economically untenable considering the cost of tuition. But I'll wait for details before getting too worked up about it. I'll be annoyed if I have to pay for my kids' tuition and pay for other's as well.

And I have no kids. I'll be highly annoyed if i have to pay for anybody's!!

Here's a solution. Don't have kids if you can't afford them!!!

I have no kids and am very happy for my tax dollars to go towards affordable education (it's subsidized in Canada). You do it for kids up to the age of 18, so why would you balk at paying it until they're 22 and just when education gets really useful?
And wtf? Anyone who can't pay for their adult kids to attend US post-secondary shouldn't have any?? You're not serious, are you??
I guess you really love the idea of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, eh?

We're all getting a little testy...

Here's my thing, like I posted earlier with the graph. It appears to be a fact that a college education is necessary for today. You can see that we are creating barely any jobs for non college grads. So it is incumbent on us to prepare our kids for the next phase of this country without saddling them with mounds of debt.
However, I don't think it should be limited people making under 125K (in fact, you are really talking about people between 50 and 125 since there are so many grants available for the truly poor). If it's a requirement for the new economy, like HS was starting in the 50s/60s, then let's make it broadly available. Second, it should be limited to JUCO type schools to control costs. Make them four years rather than 2. I'd be on board with this. Basically, the current university system will break the bank. If a family cant' afford it, then the gov't certainly can't (using taxes). WE need a different system.

what dreams

PJ_Soul said:

what dreams said:

mrussel1 said:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/sanders-clinton-endorsement-convention-225176

Looks like it is coming. I'm not sure I like the free tuition deal at all... I think it's a political liability and economically untenable considering the cost of tuition. But I'll wait for details before getting too worked up about it. I'll be annoyed if I have to pay for my kids' tuition and pay for other's as well.

And I have no kids. I'll be highly annoyed if i have to pay for anybody's!!

Here's a solution. Don't have kids if you can't afford them!!!

I have no kids and am very happy for my tax dollars to go towards affordable education (it's subsidized in Canada). You do it for kids up to the age of 18, so why would you balk at paying it until they're 22 and just when education gets really useful?
And wtf? Anyone who can't pay for their adult kids to attend US post-secondary shouldn't have any?? You're not serious, are you??
I guess you really love the idea of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, eh?

Quit throwing out ASSumptions about ideas I love or don't love. That last one is especially ASSinine. It surely doesn't inspire me to answer any of your previous questions, because I'm really not in the mood for your judgmental bullshit when I give you the answer that doesn't match your Canadian world view.

what dreams

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

what dreams said:

mrussel1 said:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/sanders-clinton-endorsement-convention-225176

Looks like it is coming. I'm not sure I like the free tuition deal at all... I think it's a political liability and economically untenable considering the cost of tuition. But I'll wait for details before getting too worked up about it. I'll be annoyed if I have to pay for my kids' tuition and pay for other's as well.

And I have no kids. I'll be highly annoyed if i have to pay for anybody's!!

Here's a solution. Don't have kids if you can't afford them!!!

I have no kids and am very happy for my tax dollars to go towards affordable education (it's subsidized in Canada). You do it for kids up to the age of 18, so why would you balk at paying it until they're 22 and just when education gets really useful?
And wtf? Anyone who can't pay for their adult kids to attend US post-secondary shouldn't have any?? You're not serious, are you??
I guess you really love the idea of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, eh?

We're all getting a little testy...

Here's my thing, like I posted earlier with the graph. It appears to be a fact that a college education is necessary for today. You can see that we are creating barely any jobs for non college grads. So it is incumbent on us to prepare our kids for the next phase of this country without saddling them with mounds of debt.
However, I don't think it should be limited people making under 125K (in fact, you are really talking about people between 50 and 125 since there are so many grants available for the truly poor). If it's a requirement for the new economy, like HS was starting in the 50s/60s, then let's make it broadly available. Second, it should be limited to JUCO type schools to control costs. Make them four years rather than 2. I'd be on board with this. Basically, the current university system will break the bank. If a family cant' afford it, then the gov't certainly can't (using taxes). WE need a different system.

Reason. Fiscal responsibility. I love you Mrussel.

OUR new system ought to include financial partnerships with the business community demanding specialized labor. If we're going to reduce the goal of American education to work-force training (which I begrudgingly accept as the goal in the 21st century), then business needs to bear some of the burden. When did on-the-job training and apprenticeships get tossed out if the mix? The same time they became anti-union?

We also need to rethink these Club Med style college campuses our states are currently developing to attract these entitled millennials. I paid my entire way through a state school with loans ( I paid it, not my parents, not the govt). I came out with what I consider reasonable debt. But at the time, my college had one dining hall , one gym, a handful of computer labs, pay phones in the dorm hallway, shared bathrooms, etc. I walk on that same campus now for various events, and it's a fucking spa world! No wonder it's costing a fortune when they have to attract all these entitled kids with their "amenities." All that extra shit costs money, and much of it has nothing to do with being educated in the classroom. I absolutely know these kinds of cuts wouldn't completely solve the problem, but it would certainly help for state schools to focus on their basic function and quit with the designer options for average middle class kids who can't afford and don't need all that shit.

mrussel1

My college experience was like yours so the club med deal is my suspicion too. I believe that is a major driver in the rising expenses. It will be interesting to see what the platform will be on this subject. Hopefully limited to junior colleges or something inexpensive. It won't change my vote but I will care greatly.