Schools must allow transgender bathrooms, Department of Education says

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  • Dirtie_FrankDirtie_Frank Posts: 1,348
    edited May 2016
    Is this article clueless:
    http://thefederalist.com/2016/04/21/drop-the-t-from-lgbt/

    I had to shorten because too many characters
    ..Many transgenders are not homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual. Unlike people who identify as LGB, transgenders suffer from self-deception disorders (gender dysphoria). They are convinced that they are in the wrong body, and with the help of enablers and affirmers of their delusion, undergo drastic body-mutilating surgeries to enhance the deception and deny the plain and simple truth of their gender. While some LGB people may be transgender, too, the majority are not.
    Difference 2: Bathroom Access

    The transgender public restroom issue, a hot topic in the news today, is exclusively a transgender cause not shared by those who are lesbian, gay, or bisexual. Transgender bills being debated at the state and local levels exclusively address gender identity and have nothing to do with sexual preference. This includes bills to legally change one’s gender marker on one’s birth certificate without surgically altering the appearance of one’s genitals. It also includes bills to allow any man to use women’s public restrooms and locker rooms if he says he feels like a woman—no surgery or birth-record change required.
    Gay men might care that deviants invoke such laws to indulge their sexual perversions, bringing a backlash on the LGBT community.

    Many gay men don’t care whether transgenders get access to the public restroom of the opposite sex. But gay men might care that pedophiles and deviants invoke such laws to indulge their sexual perversions in public restrooms and in doing so, bring a backlash on the LGBT community. Most women, lesbian or not, prefer to keep a man who has his toolbox intact out of the women’s restrooms and locker rooms, no matter how much he insists he is a woman. This applies particularly to women who have been sexually assaulted in the past.

    The freedom to change genders without surgery and to enter gender-segregated spaces is an open invitation to perverts to use public restrooms to indulge their sexual corruptions at the expense of women and girls.

    Studies show the transgender population has a wide range of co-existing mental disorders. Besides the obvious gender dysphoria, they suffer at high rates from a wide range of undiagnosed and untreated mental issues: body dysmorphic disorders, sexual fetishes like autogynephilia (arousal at the thought of being a woman), and masturbation addictions, to name just a few.
    The recommended treatment for depression, anxiety, or other mental disorders is not gender surgery.

    “We found 90% of these diverse patients had at least one other significant form of psychopathology,” says a 2009 study by the Department of Psychiatry at Case Western Reserve University. The psychopathologies found were “mood and anxiety regulation and adaption in the world.”

    A 2011 long-term follow-up of transsexual persons undergoing sex-reassignment surgery concluded: “Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population.”

    People who are transgender have a higher risk of suicidal behavior, and suicide is known to be caused by depression and anxiety. The recommended treatment for depression, anxiety, or other mental disorders is not gender surgery.

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,665
    so what was found to be cause(s) of the depression and anxiety?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • I have to admit that I don't understand the transgender phenomenon very well. It sure seems to be trending lately and humans love trending.

    Are we sure that 'transitioning' is a natural aspect of the human psyche and that instead of treating the confused human... we are entertaining something we shouldn't?

    Does asking this question make me intolerant?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504

    I have to admit that I don't understand the transgender phenomenon very well. It sure seems to be trending lately and humans love trending.

    Are we sure that 'transitioning' is a natural aspect of the human psyche and that instead of treating the confused human... we are entertaining something we shouldn't?

    Does asking this question make me intolerant?

    HAHAHHAHHHHAHAHA ! no, a bigot and a hater.
    sorry man LOL ! but ya gotta see the humor in that coming from the Village bigot, racist, hater and all around bad guy HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH !

    Godfather.

  • I have to admit that I don't understand the transgender phenomenon very well. It sure seems to be trending lately and humans love trending.

    Are we sure that 'transitioning' is a natural aspect of the human psyche and that instead of treating the confused human... we are entertaining something we shouldn't?

    Does asking this question make me intolerant?

    HAHAHHAHHHHAHAHA ! no, a bigot and a hater.
    sorry man LOL ! but ya gotta see the humor in that coming from the Village bigot, racist, hater and all around bad guy HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH !

    Godfather.

    GF...

    I told you a million times... when the village bigot enters the fray... sound your bell. Geezuz man.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504

    I have to admit that I don't understand the transgender phenomenon very well. It sure seems to be trending lately and humans love trending.

    Are we sure that 'transitioning' is a natural aspect of the human psyche and that instead of treating the confused human... we are entertaining something we shouldn't?

    Does asking this question make me intolerant?

    HAHAHHAHHHHAHAHA ! no, a bigot and a hater.
    sorry man LOL ! but ya gotta see the humor in that coming from the Village bigot, racist, hater and all around bad guy HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH !

    Godfather.

    GF...

    I told you a million times... when the village bigot enters the fray... sound your bell. Geezuz man.
    HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA ! shit man I'm laughing so hard right now, thanks' !

    Godfather.

  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,591



    Overblown issue.

    We're talking about f**king bathrooms. If you got a noodle... go hang your noodle out where all the other noodles hang out. Look straight ahead while you do it and bingo... you've successfully pee'd.

    School bathrooms are not teeming with thugs looking to club transgender people. They're typically very quiet places with most of the kids sitting in class. A transgender kid simply needs to ask if they can go to the washroom... walk to the washroom through the empty halls... walk into the empty washroom (there might be someone in there so say "Hi" if so)... and relieve themselves.

    * Both the same issue... but essentially the same strategy for adults in the public setting. I'm pretty sure there are no scarlet letters indicating who's transitioning so even the worst asshole out there doesn't give a shit. If someone has already transitioned... go to new designation.

    it's just not that cut and dried man, the human factor is way to bazar and the fact that it's been boy's in the boy's room and girls in the girls room since forever ! and accepted as so then why change it ? it's worked great all these years.

    Godfather.

    Yes, it is cut and dry. The only "human" factor that comes into play are the people that discriminate against the transgender community.
    geeeeeze would you get off that discriminate thing ! whaaaa whaaaa whaaaa !!!!!! it's not discrimination at all ! it's people like you forcing your bullshit on people who don't want it !
    get over yourself already !

    Godfather.

    What do you mean people like you ? Dude this law is discriminatory against a sect of humans ...
    There are estimates that .3% of the US population is transgender. That is less than 1 million people in the country. I agree this is a non subject, however when the POTUS threatens to cut off funds for education it becomes everyones issue. Why should 99.7% of the people have to conform to the .3%?
    You are clueless !!
    So fill me in then. What am I missing? How many children are trans? Why should the POTUS threaten to withhold federal funding for eduction?
    Even if it's one that individual needs someone to stand up for them is that ok with you or just let them fend for themselves ..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,960

    PJ_Soul said:



    Overblown issue.

    We're talking about f**king bathrooms. If you got a noodle... go hang your noodle out where all the other noodles hang out. Look straight ahead while you do it and bingo... you've successfully pee'd.

    School bathrooms are not teeming with thugs looking to club transgender people. They're typically very quiet places with most of the kids sitting in class. A transgender kid simply needs to ask if they can go to the washroom... walk to the washroom through the empty halls... walk into the empty washroom (there might be someone in there so say "Hi" if so)... and relieve themselves.

    * Both the same issue... but essentially the same strategy for adults in the public setting. I'm pretty sure there are no scarlet letters indicating who's transitioning so even the worst asshole out there doesn't give a shit. If someone has already transitioned... go to new designation.

    it's just not that cut and dried man, the human factor is way to bazar and the fact that it's been boy's in the boy's room and girls in the girls room since forever ! and accepted as so then why change it ? it's worked great all these years.

    Godfather.

    Yes, it is cut and dry. The only "human" factor that comes into play are the people that discriminate against the transgender community.
    geeeeeze would you get off that discriminate thing ! whaaaa whaaaa whaaaa !!!!!! it's not discrimination at all ! it's people like you forcing your bullshit on people who don't want it !
    get over yourself already !

    Godfather.

    When you discriminate against people, others don't give a flying fuck about whether or not you don't want some non-discriminatory "bullshit" forced on you. Too bad, so sad. The bigots in this case will lose just like the bigots did back when they didn't want black people to right up at the front of the bus. I'm sure there were MANY people back then who were mad that the blacks were being forced upon them in their whites-only zones. I sure don't give a fuck if they were mad about it.
    There was a GREAT episode about this on GLEE. Go watch it.

    Question?!? How the hell is this NOT discriminatory? You're labeling a bathroom "transgender".

    It's a damn beacon pointing right at someone whom probably doesn't need the added attention.

    Are we going to add a "GAY" or "LESBIAN" bathroom next!?!

    I wonder if the transgender are upset because they have to use a separate bathroom rather than the one they associated with?
    Oh, yes, fair enough - I'm just talking about transgendered people using the washroom that fits their gender identity (I have not followed most of this thread). I agree that a THIRD washroom is the wrong way to go. It just further stigmatizes transgendered people who, from what I understand, are only really transgendered until they go through transition, at which point, they become either male or female again. My argument is just against GF's attitude about the whole thing. He thinks that transgendered people should be forced to use the washroom that matches their birth certificate.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    and punish everybody else ?

    Godfather.
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,591

    and punish everybody else ?

    Godfather.

    You said punish , ok yeah everybody is getting punished talk about fear mongering lol lol
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,960
    edited May 2016

    and punish everybody else ?

    Godfather.

    No. There is no punishment involved. I'm sorry, but being a bigot (and the bigots certainly are not "everybody else") who is subjected to the focus of their bigotry isn't punishment, unless you mean forcing the victim of the bigotry to be anywhere near the people discriminating against them. I will continue using the same analogy because it fits perfectly: Getting rid of "coloureds-only" washrooms and "whites-only" washrooms and making black people and white people use the same washroom is not a punishment to white people. Forcing black people to use separate washrooms because of racism was punishing black people for being born black. Exact same thing applies here with transgendered people. It's about civil rights. It doesn't matter how much some people oppose a civil or human right. It's still a right.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    how is it not ? if 90% of the population is forced into something what would you call it ?

    Godfather.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,960

    how is it not ? if 90% of the population is forced into something what would you call it ?

    Godfather.

    It's called what's right. It wouldn't matter if 99.9% of people were against a civil or human right. That's why civil or human rights shouldn't be put to a vote. Because even if 99% of a population are bigots, that doesn't take away that 1%'s rights. Civil and human rights are not a matter of opinion. What if 99% of a population supported black slavery? Would that make it okay? No. Of course it wouldn't. So, to be clear, when you're talking about civil rights, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    we're not talking about slavery.....we're talking about a man in a women's restroom, and you and Jose really don't see the discomfort that would cause MOST women/ people ? anybody who disfigures their body and demands to use the ladies room is fucked up in the head in my opinion and it's a pretty common belief among most men and yet you would like to trust them use the ladies room ?.......unbelievable !
    it has NOTHING to do with discrimination it's called common sense and right to privacy while our wives and daughter's are using a public restroom and our kid's don't need that bullshit either.
    time to wake up.

    Godfather.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,665

    we're not talking about slavery.....we're talking about a man in a women's restroom, and you and Jose really don't see the discomfort that would cause MOST women/ people ? anybody who disfigures their body and demands to use the ladies room is fucked up in the head in my opinion and it's a pretty common belief among most men and yet you would like to trust them use the ladies room ?.......unbelievable !
    it has NOTHING to do with discrimination it's called common sense and right to privacy while our wives and daughter's are using a public restroom and our kid's don't need that bullshit either.
    time to wake up.

    Godfather.

    wkae up to this....
    mickeyrat said:

    Wife found and shared this on adbook.



    Dear creepy heterosexual men guarding our bathrooms,

    My entire life, I've been told to fear you in one way or another. I've been told to cover my body as to not distract you in school, to cover my body to help avoid unwanted advances or comments, to cover my body as to not tempt you to sexually assault me, to reject your unwanted advances politely as to not anger you. I've been taught to never walk alone at night, to hold my keys in my fist while walking in parking lots, to check the backseat of my car, to not drink too much because you might take advantage of me. I've been told what I should and shouldn't do with my body as to not jeopardize my relationships with you.

    I've been warned not to emasculate you, to let "boys be boys", to protect your fragile ego and to not tread on your even more fragile masculinity. I've been taught to keep my emotions in check, to let you be the unit of measure for how much emotion is appropriate and to adjust my emotions accordingly. I've been taught that you're allowed to categorize women into mothers/sisters/girlfriends/wives/daughters but any woman outside of your protected categories is fair game.

    So to those of you who think you're being helpful by "protecting" me and my fellow women, you're like a shark sitting in the Lifeguard chair. I wasn't uncomfortable until you showed up at the pool and the only potential predator I see is you.

    Your mothers, sisters, girlfriends, wives and daughters don't need you to walk them to the bathroom for safety. Your fathers, brothers, friends and sons need to walk themselves away from their own double standards. Women are sexually harassed and sexually assaulted on school campuses, on the street, at their jobs, on the Internet, in their own homes, in ANY public place. And it has been excused or ignored for so long because of what you and I are taught from the first years of our interactions with each other: You, as a male, are not accountable for your own actions. It's MY responsibility, as a female, to not "provoke" you. But then you get to Knight-In-Shining-Armor your way through life for those in your protected categories and I am expected to applaud you. Why the outrage now over bathrooms? Why aren't you outraged every single day?

    If you're telling me that there are high volumes of boys and men out there, in schools or in general, who are just waiting for a "loop hole" to sexually assault girls and women, we have bigger problems on our hands than bathrooms. The first problem would be your apparent lack of knowledge of how often it happens OUTSIDE of bathrooms, with no "loop holes" needed. This isn't about Transgender bathroom access. This is about you not trusting the boys and men in your communities and/or fearing that they're all secretly predators. Why do you have this fear? How many fathers have panicked when their daughters started dating because they "know how teenaged boys can be because they used to be one"? How many times have girls been warned "boys are only after one thing"? A mother can bring her young son into the women's restroom and that's fine but a father bringing his young daughter into the men's restroom is disturbing because men are assumed to be predators and "little girls" shouldn't be exposed to that.

    So instead of picking up your sword and heading to Target or the girls' locker room to defend our "rights", why don't you start somewhere that could actually make a difference? Challenge your children's schools to end sexist dress codes and dress codes that sexualize girls as young as age 5. Advocate for proper (or any) sex education classes in all public schools by a certain grade level. Focus more on teaching your sons not to rape vs teaching your daughters how to avoid being raped. Stop asking "How would you feel if that was your mother or sister?" It shouldn't take the comparison to clue you in to what's right or wrong. Question why you're more worried about your daughter being around men than your son being around women in bathrooms and dressing rooms. Stop walking by Victoria's Secret with no problem but covering your son's eyes if a woman is breastfeeding in public. Stop treating your daughter's body as some fortress you're sworn to protect as if that's all she's got to offer the world.

    THIS is the problem here.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,336
    PJ_Soul said:

    how is it not ? if 90% of the population is forced into something what would you call it ?

    Godfather.

    It's called what's right. It wouldn't matter if 99.9% of people were against a civil or human right. That's why civil or human rights shouldn't be put to a vote. Because even if 99% of a population are bigots, that doesn't take away that 1%'s rights. Civil and human rights are not a matter of opinion. What if 99% of a population supported black slavery? Would that make it okay? No. Of course it wouldn't. So, to be clear, when you're talking about civil rights, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT.
    You get it.
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,591

    we're not talking about slavery.....we're talking about a man in a women's restroom, and you and Jose really don't see the discomfort that would cause MOST women/ people ? anybody who disfigures their body and demands to use the ladies room is fucked up in the head in my opinion and it's a pretty common belief among most men and yet you would like to trust them use the ladies room ?.......unbelievable !
    it has NOTHING to do with discrimination it's called common sense and right to privacy while our wives and daughter's are using a public restroom and our kid's don't need that bullshit either.
    time to wake up.

    Godfather.

    Lol lol ha ha you don't even know what a transgender is lol ok , have a great day
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • DegeneratefkDegeneratefk Posts: 3,123

    how is it not ? if 90% of the population is forced into something what would you call it ?

    Godfather.

    Nobody is forcing you to do anything.

    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • DegeneratefkDegeneratefk Posts: 3,123

    and punish everybody else ?

    Godfather.

    It's ok to discriminate if it only affects .3% of the population? Where's that cut off line?
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,591
    @ GF you said disfigured themselves as if they castrated themselves or mame themselves to be able to go into the opposite gender bathroom to abuse women , is that what you meant ?
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • KatKat Posts: 4,872
  • what dreamswhat dreams Posts: 1,761

    I have to admit that I don't understand the transgender phenomenon very well. It sure seems to be trending lately and humans love trending.

    Are we sure that 'transitioning' is a natural aspect of the human psyche and that instead of treating the confused human... we are entertaining something we shouldn't?

    Does asking this question make me intolerant?

    I'm with you in that I don't really understand it all either. I mean, if a person is transgendered, they've had an operation, right? The original man now looks like a woman. So how would I even know if a woman in the bathroom was an original woman or an operational woman, unless it was a really unsuccessful operation? And wouldn't someone in between feel out of place no matter which bathroom? Like, do they go through a phase where they're kind of half and half? I know the one dad/mom I met was pretty awkward still in the heels and dress, trying to look and act like a woman but pretty obviously not there yet. Someone with more knowledge in these matters told me it's a hard phase to go through, figuring out the hair and the clothes and all.

    I don't really care one way or another what this person was doing, but I did have extra empathy for the 13 year old son once I met the dad/mom (sorry I never got far enough to ask what the parent refers to him/herself). That can't be easy, to be a middle school boy with a parent going through this. I smiled, was polite the same way I'd be with anyone, but yes, some people wonder what the hell this even is, trying to understand. I will not lie and say none of the faculty met in the lounge at the end of Back to School Night with a big "What the hell just happened?"

    I don't think it makes us bigots or intolerant to ask questions or wonder at how we're supposed to respond as a society, though. Clearly it's confusing for everybody. I don't see why we can't have civil dialogue while we sort through the confusion. Not everybody sees the issue in such easily delineated terms, and I don't see why those who do can't or won't help the rest of us understand in the same patient, kind way that we are also expected to (and do) treat others.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,960
    No, a transgendered person has not necessarily had a sex change surgery. They are transgendered presumably from birth. The sex change just puts them in the right body. I have heard that some (if not most) transgendered people only consider themselves that UNTIL they have the surgery, and after then they are just a man or a woman.... Like transgendered means that they need to transition and once they have, they are just the way they are supposed to be, so no longer transgendered. But I'm sure attitudes vary in that context. Before reassignment surgery, though, they still identify as being male or female, just stuck in the wrong body, so to them, it's more like that state is almost a kind of deformity or a disability (I'm sure there is a better word to use here, but I can't think of it right now)... and since when did we think it was okay to discriminate against people with deformities or disabilities and force them to do stuff they aren't comfortable with??
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,454
    PJ_Soul said:

    how is it not ? if 90% of the population is forced into something what would you call it ?

    Godfather.

    It's called what's right. It wouldn't matter if 99.9% of people were against a civil or human right. That's why civil or human rights shouldn't be put to a vote. Because even if 99% of a population are bigots, that doesn't take away that 1%'s rights. Civil and human rights are not a matter of opinion. What if 99% of a population supported black slavery? Would that make it okay? No. Of course it wouldn't. So, to be clear, when you're talking about civil rights, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT.
    Yup.

    And the reality is we already have real laws against doing bad things. We don't need to regulate personal things that truly affect no one.

    I'm pretty tired of this conversation. Perhaps we should be banning the Catholic Church and priesthood if we want to stop sexual abuse.

    C'mon, we are such a bunch of fucking morons that we let people that are suppose to be representing us and tackling tough issues distract us with BS issues that don't actual exist or cause and problems.

    hippiemom = goodness
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,104

    I have to admit that I don't understand the transgender phenomenon very well. It sure seems to be trending lately and humans love trending.

    Are we sure that 'transitioning' is a natural aspect of the human psyche and that instead of treating the confused human... we are entertaining something we shouldn't?

    Does asking this question make me intolerant?

    It probably means you're ignorant about the subject and combining it with confusion about why people are pushing against the status quo, when you didn't see a problem with the status quo. Transgendered people have always been around. Sometimes our gender doesn't match our physical parts. Societal gender roles that are rigid make this even a larger struggle for the transgendered person. They aren't necessarily confused. And then whenever a minority group gets a more equal status, people respond with hostility. Some then see the hostility and will blame the minority group for 'rocking the boat' because everything seemed just fine in the past.
  • I have to admit that I don't understand the transgender phenomenon very well. It sure seems to be trending lately and humans love trending.

    Are we sure that 'transitioning' is a natural aspect of the human psyche and that instead of treating the confused human... we are entertaining something we shouldn't?

    Does asking this question make me intolerant?

    It probably means you're ignorant about the subject and combining it with confusion about why people are pushing against the status quo, when you didn't see a problem with the status quo. Transgendered people have always been around. Sometimes our gender doesn't match our physical parts. Societal gender roles that are rigid make this even a larger struggle for the transgendered person. They aren't necessarily confused. And then whenever a minority group gets a more equal status, people respond with hostility. Some then see the hostility and will blame the minority group for 'rocking the boat' because everything seemed just fine in the past.
    Maybe.

    Kind of like how Michael Jackson identified as white even though he was born black? And then undergoing multiple surgeries to make himself appear as he felt he should?

    You kind of spoke smugly about the topic, but you never actually answered my question: are we definitively sure that transitioning is a normal part of human nature?

    I don't give two shits if someone wants to lop their pecker and balls off to become a female... and I don't give two shits where they take a dump either... I only ask what I did because a person transitioning defies nature and science. Is mutilating yourself to become what you are not the answer? It might be... but it might not be either.

    Psychology is not an exact science by any stretch of the imagination.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,336

    I have to admit that I don't understand the transgender phenomenon very well. It sure seems to be trending lately and humans love trending.

    Are we sure that 'transitioning' is a natural aspect of the human psyche and that instead of treating the confused human... we are entertaining something we shouldn't?

    Does asking this question make me intolerant?

    It probably means you're ignorant about the subject and combining it with confusion about why people are pushing against the status quo, when you didn't see a problem with the status quo. Transgendered people have always been around. Sometimes our gender doesn't match our physical parts. Societal gender roles that are rigid make this even a larger struggle for the transgendered person. They aren't necessarily confused. And then whenever a minority group gets a more equal status, people respond with hostility. Some then see the hostility and will blame the minority group for 'rocking the boat' because everything seemed just fine in the past.
    Maybe.

    Kind of like how Michael Jackson identified as white even though he was born black? And then undergoing multiple surgeries to make himself appear as he felt he should?

    You kind of spoke smugly about the topic, but you never actually answered my question: are we definitively sure that transitioning is a normal part of human nature?

    I don't give two shits if someone wants to lop their pecker and balls off to become a female... and I don't give two shits where they take a dump either... I only ask what I did because a person transitioning defies nature and science. Is mutilating yourself to become what you are not the answer? It might be... but it might not be either.

    Psychology is not an exact science by any stretch of the imagination.
    I've heard a lot of people use this argument to describe "the gays"

    You really want to be in that camp?
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    edited May 2016
    dignin said:

    I have to admit that I don't understand the transgender phenomenon very well. It sure seems to be trending lately and humans love trending.

    Are we sure that 'transitioning' is a natural aspect of the human psyche and that instead of treating the confused human... we are entertaining something we shouldn't?

    Does asking this question make me intolerant?

    It probably means you're ignorant about the subject and combining it with confusion about why people are pushing against the status quo, when you didn't see a problem with the status quo. Transgendered people have always been around. Sometimes our gender doesn't match our physical parts. Societal gender roles that are rigid make this even a larger struggle for the transgendered person. They aren't necessarily confused. And then whenever a minority group gets a more equal status, people respond with hostility. Some then see the hostility and will blame the minority group for 'rocking the boat' because everything seemed just fine in the past.
    Maybe.

    Kind of like how Michael Jackson identified as white even though he was born black? And then undergoing multiple surgeries to make himself appear as he felt he should?

    You kind of spoke smugly about the topic, but you never actually answered my question: are we definitively sure that transitioning is a normal part of human nature?

    I don't give two shits if someone wants to lop their pecker and balls off to become a female... and I don't give two shits where they take a dump either... I only ask what I did because a person transitioning defies nature and science. Is mutilating yourself to become what you are not the answer? It might be... but it might not be either.

    Psychology is not an exact science by any stretch of the imagination.
    I've heard a lot of people use this argument to describe "the gays"

    You really want to be in that camp?
    A totally different issue and I'm not presenting an argument, I'm asking a question.

    Edit: just saw you highlighted a section.

    Sexual preference and love doesn't defy nature in my mind. Modifying your body through surgical procedure most certainly does though.
    Post edited by Thirty Bills Unpaid on
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,104

    I have to admit that I don't understand the transgender phenomenon very well. It sure seems to be trending lately and humans love trending.

    Are we sure that 'transitioning' is a natural aspect of the human psyche and that instead of treating the confused human... we are entertaining something we shouldn't?

    Does asking this question make me intolerant?

    It probably means you're ignorant about the subject and combining it with confusion about why people are pushing against the status quo, when you didn't see a problem with the status quo. Transgendered people have always been around. Sometimes our gender doesn't match our physical parts. Societal gender roles that are rigid make this even a larger struggle for the transgendered person. They aren't necessarily confused. And then whenever a minority group gets a more equal status, people respond with hostility. Some then see the hostility and will blame the minority group for 'rocking the boat' because everything seemed just fine in the past.
    Maybe.

    Kind of like how Michael Jackson identified as white even though he was born black? And then undergoing multiple surgeries to make himself appear as he felt he should?

    You kind of spoke smugly about the topic, but you never actually answered my question: are we definitively sure that transitioning is a normal part of human nature?

    I don't give two shits if someone wants to lop their pecker and balls off to become a female... and I don't give two shits where they take a dump either... I only ask what I did because a person transitioning defies nature and science. Is mutilating yourself to become what you are not the answer? It might be... but it might not be either.

    Psychology is not an exact science by any stretch of the imagination.
    It's not similar to anything with Michael Jackson, and I am sure that transgender is a normal part of being human. It's not defying nature and science if it's always occurred throughout human history, and if someone has reassignment surgery, they are just using what's available through modern means to make more of their physical match their gender. Really, the aspect of psychology that comes into play is how the person deals and comes to terms with their gender identity.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,382
    Thinking out loud.

    I wonder if the psychological effects like depression and what not that a transgendered is having is because they are scared and don't know where to turn?

    Didn't gay people have that same plight?

    I'll admit that the transgender card still befuttles me but I'm learning more and trying to understand better.
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