Disappointed in PJ Fans Today

southernmanfan

Excellent post! I would have been devastated if I had tickets to the show but I am elated at their stance. I have even greater respect for the band than I ever had.
This is a human rights issue. That is the fundamental thing here.
Everyone has a right to their own opinion though...

PJ_Soul

Inam disappointed with some of the fans too. Not so much because they don't support PJ's cancellation (I DO support it), but because so many seem to have completely forgotten the meaning of protest, the point behind peotests, how protests work, and why they are important in general. As far as i can tell, many people feel like a protest isn't worth it if it inconveniences them or anyone at all, no matter what the subject is. Very very sad to see this attitude, especially among Pearl Jam fans.

BE257117

The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.

PJ_Soul

BE257117 said:

The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.

So?

bootlegger10

PJ_Soul said:

BE257117 said:

The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.

So?

So maybe you don't cancel on fans at the last minute if you have a history of playing concerts in places that have repressive laws.

PJ_Soul

bootlegger10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BE257117 said:

The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.

So?

So maybe you don't cancel on fans at the last minute if you have a history of playing concerts in places that have repressive laws.

I don't feel like this is a logical take on the matter. You are basically saying that if they don't protest everything they shouldn't protest anything.
Makes no sense. Plus, there was no new or pending legislation that had caused a wave of protest in South America. Plus they aren't South American.

pjalive21

PJ_Soul said:

bootlegger10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BE257117 said:

The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.

So?

So maybe you don't cancel on fans at the last minute if you have a history of playing concerts in places that have repressive laws.

I don't feel like this is a logical take on the matter. You are basically saying that if they don't protest everything they shouldn't protest anything.
Makes no sense. Plus, there was no new or pending legislation that had caused a wave of protest in South America. Plus they aren't South American.

So people are only supposed to ride the wave of what is currently hip to support at the current moment and ignore the long standing hate history of other state and national laws???

that makes sense

StevieG

BE257117 said:

The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.

Exactly!! As well as the extreme poverty levels in South America

BCBA

PJ_Soul said:

Inam disappointed with some of the fans too. Not so much because they don't support PJ's cancellation (I DO support it), but because so many seem to have completely forgotten the meaning of protest, the point behind peotests, how protests work, and why they are important in general. As far as i can tell, many people feel like a protest isn't worth it if it inconveniences them or anyone at all, no matter what the subject is. Very very sad to see this attitude, especially among Pearl Jam fans.

Is the air really thin up on that high horse?

BCBA

Really. I wasnt going to the show, but totally feel for those who had tickets and plans. This would be just gutting.... the way some fans are talking down to others in these various mediums is pretty awful

myoung321

A majority of 10C fans support the difficult choice to cancel.. Some people are never happy and only see the little picture.

PJ_Soul

pjalive21 said:

PJ_Soul said:

bootlegger10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BE257117 said:

The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.

So?

So maybe you don't cancel on fans at the last minute if you have a history of playing concerts in places that have repressive laws.

I don't feel like this is a logical take on the matter. You are basically saying that if they don't protest everything they shouldn't protest anything.
Makes no sense. Plus, there was no new or pending legislation that had caused a wave of protest in South America. Plus they aren't South American.

So people are only supposed to ride the wave of what is currently hip to support at the current moment and ignore the long standing hate history of other state and national laws???

that makes sense

Where did you get the "only" part from? No, people are supposed to stand up and voice opposition for whatever fight they want. It's not an all or none situation. I just can't believe that some folks are willing to attack someone for voicing opposition to a particular cause because that someone didn't voice it for some other cause. It's ludicrous. And to bash a band for joining a growing cause because they think it might have some traction is just as ridiculous (unless you actually disagree with their position and like the new legislation. Then it would make perfect sense).

bootlegger10

PJ_Soul said:

bootlegger10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BE257117 said:

The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.

So?

So maybe you don't cancel on fans at the last minute if you have a history of playing concerts in places that have repressive laws.

I don't feel like this is a logical take on the matter. You are basically saying that if they don't protest everything they shouldn't protest anything.
Makes no sense. Plus, there was no new or pending legislation that had caused a wave of protest in South America. Plus they aren't South American.

Agree to disagree. But I think having a history of playing shows in states with repressive laws, lax gun laws, laws making it difficult to keep abortion clinics open, etc... needs to be considered in whether you can cancel on your fans at the last minute. I think in a prior post you talked about peoples' expectations that Pearl Jam would play and I think their history of playing shows and not boycotting should rightfully lead someone to not cancel their hotel 5 days in advance in expectation that the show would be canceled.

I wasn't in the room when the band talked about this decision, but I believe two things should have been said that would lead to not cancelling the shows:

#1 - "Guys, we waited too long. The time to act was 8 days ago but we didn't. That is our fault and we shouldn't make our indecision a cause for fans to be out of hotel and airfare costs. We waited too long and we should bear the brunt of any criticism for playing."

Because I like to have fun when I post too, this comment would have been followed up with "But Bruce canceled..." from someone in the band.

#2 - "We've never canceled a show before in all the other states/countries we played, so it would not be fair now to fans to not play."

PJ_Soul

To be totally honest, i don't feel like the band should give a second thought to the travel expenses of those who booked non-refundable trips to attend their shows. I don't see that as the band's problem at all.

bootlegger10

PJ_Soul said:

To be totally honest, i don't feel like the band should give a second thought to the travel expenses of those who booked non-refundable trips to attend their shows. I don't see that as the band's problem at all.

That opinion seems to be at odds with the opinion that the band is a fan-friendly band. Do you believe they are a fan-friendly band?

Do you not get that Pearl Jam organized this North Carolina concert? Do you not get that they collected money from fans months in advance of this concert? They have a duty of care for every single person that accepted their invitation and paid money. If they don't, then they are no different than the corporations you hate that care little for the little guy.

PJ_Soul

bootlegger10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

To be totally honest, i don't feel like the band should give a second thought to the travel expenses of those who booked non-refundable trips to attend their shows. I don't see that as the band's problem at all.

That opinion seems to be at odds with the opinion that the band is a fan-friendly band. Do you believe they are a fan-friendly band?

Do you not get that Pearl Jam organized this North Carolina concert? Do you not get that they collected money from fans months in advance of this concert? They have a duty of care for every single person that accepted their invitation and paid money. If they don't, then they are no different than the corporations you hate that care little for the little guy.

I think you know I get all that.
And yes, I do consider PJ fan friendly and within reason, and I don't feel like the travel expenses of fans should be their problem or concern. They never asked anyone to travel to see them. Why should they be made to feel responsible for decisions that fans make in their personal lives? IMO, PJ is only responsible for what happens at the shows and within the fan club on an adminstrative level.

Also, I do not consider selling a ticket an invitation.

18th Pale Descendant

To be totally honest, i don't feel like the band should give a second thought to the travel expenses of those who booked non-refundable trips to attend their shows. I don't see that as the band's problem at all.

. . . said the troll.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

bootlegger10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BE257117 said:

The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.

So?

So maybe you don't cancel on fans at the last minute if you have a history of playing concerts in places that have repressive laws.

People who bought tickets to this show, purchased air fare, purchased hotel rooms etc. are more than allowed to be PISSED! And they certainly don't need some "holier than thou", "all knowing" fans on this board to rub their noses in it. You have been right all along bootlegger10, it was complete HORSESHIT that they waiting until the last minute to cancel this show.

patkelly12

Only protest when it's trendy. Got it. South Africa ain't trendy. NC is.

patkelly12

So what I take from this thread is that the band can't be expected to protest all the time. Just when Clooney & Co think it's a good time to protest. That's not sheepish at all.