Excellent post! I would have been devastated if I had tickets to the show but I am elated at their stance. I have even greater respect for the band than I ever had. This is a human rights issue. That is the fundamental thing here. Everyone has a right to their own opinion though...
Inam disappointed with some of the fans too. Not so much because they don't support PJ's cancellation (I DO support it), but because so many seem to have completely forgotten the meaning of protest, the point behind peotests, how protests work, and why they are important in general. As far as i can tell, many people feel like a protest isn't worth it if it inconveniences them or anyone at all, no matter what the subject is. Very very sad to see this attitude, especially among Pearl Jam fans.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.
The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.
So?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.
So?
So maybe you don't cancel on fans at the last minute if you have a history of playing concerts in places that have repressive laws.
The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.
So?
So maybe you don't cancel on fans at the last minute if you have a history of playing concerts in places that have repressive laws.
I don't feel like this is a logical take on the matter. You are basically saying that if they don't protest everything they shouldn't protest anything. Makes no sense. Plus, there was no new or pending legislation that had caused a wave of protest in South America. Plus they aren't South American.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.
So?
So maybe you don't cancel on fans at the last minute if you have a history of playing concerts in places that have repressive laws.
I don't feel like this is a logical take on the matter. You are basically saying that if they don't protest everything they shouldn't protest anything. Makes no sense. Plus, there was no new or pending legislation that had caused a wave of protest in South America. Plus they aren't South American.
So people are only supposed to ride the wave of what is currently hip to support at the current moment and ignore the long standing hate history of other state and national laws???
The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.
Exactly!! As well as the extreme poverty levels in South America
Barrie, ON - Aug 22, 1998
London, ON - Sep 12, 2005
Toronto, ON - Aug 21, 2009
Toronto, ON- Sep 11 2011
Hamilton, ON- Sep 15 2011
London, ON- Jul 16 2013
Buffalo, NY- Oct 12 2013
Inam disappointed with some of the fans too. Not so much because they don't support PJ's cancellation (I DO support it), but because so many seem to have completely forgotten the meaning of protest, the point behind peotests, how protests work, and why they are important in general. As far as i can tell, many people feel like a protest isn't worth it if it inconveniences them or anyone at all, no matter what the subject is. Very very sad to see this attitude, especially among Pearl Jam fans.
Really. I wasnt going to the show, but totally feel for those who had tickets and plans. This would be just gutting.... the way some fans are talking down to others in these various mediums is pretty awful
The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.
So?
So maybe you don't cancel on fans at the last minute if you have a history of playing concerts in places that have repressive laws.
I don't feel like this is a logical take on the matter. You are basically saying that if they don't protest everything they shouldn't protest anything. Makes no sense. Plus, there was no new or pending legislation that had caused a wave of protest in South America. Plus they aren't South American.
So people are only supposed to ride the wave of what is currently hip to support at the current moment and ignore the long standing hate history of other state and national laws???
that makes sense
Where did you get the "only" part from? No, people are supposed to stand up and voice opposition for whatever fight they want. It's not an all or none situation. I just can't believe that some folks are willing to attack someone for voicing opposition to a particular cause because that someone didn't voice it for some other cause. It's ludicrous. And to bash a band for joining a growing cause because they think it might have some traction is just as ridiculous (unless you actually disagree with their position and like the new legislation. Then it would make perfect sense).
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.
So?
So maybe you don't cancel on fans at the last minute if you have a history of playing concerts in places that have repressive laws.
I don't feel like this is a logical take on the matter. You are basically saying that if they don't protest everything they shouldn't protest anything. Makes no sense. Plus, there was no new or pending legislation that had caused a wave of protest in South America. Plus they aren't South American.
Agree to disagree. But I think having a history of playing shows in states with repressive laws, lax gun laws, laws making it difficult to keep abortion clinics open, etc... needs to be considered in whether you can cancel on your fans at the last minute. I think in a prior post you talked about peoples' expectations that Pearl Jam would play and I think their history of playing shows and not boycotting should rightfully lead someone to not cancel their hotel 5 days in advance in expectation that the show would be canceled.
I wasn't in the room when the band talked about this decision, but I believe two things should have been said that would lead to not cancelling the shows:
#1 - "Guys, we waited too long. The time to act was 8 days ago but we didn't. That is our fault and we shouldn't make our indecision a cause for fans to be out of hotel and airfare costs. We waited too long and we should bear the brunt of any criticism for playing."
Because I like to have fun when I post too, this comment would have been followed up with "But Bruce canceled..." from someone in the band.
#2 - "We've never canceled a show before in all the other states/countries we played, so it would not be fair now to fans to not play."
To be totally honest, i don't feel like the band should give a second thought to the travel expenses of those who booked non-refundable trips to attend their shows. I don't see that as the band's problem at all.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
To be totally honest, i don't feel like the band should give a second thought to the travel expenses of those who booked non-refundable trips to attend their shows. I don't see that as the band's problem at all.
That opinion seems to be at odds with the opinion that the band is a fan-friendly band. Do you believe they are a fan-friendly band?
Do you not get that Pearl Jam organized this North Carolina concert? Do you not get that they collected money from fans months in advance of this concert? They have a duty of care for every single person that accepted their invitation and paid money. If they don't, then they are no different than the corporations you hate that care little for the little guy.
To be totally honest, i don't feel like the band should give a second thought to the travel expenses of those who booked non-refundable trips to attend their shows. I don't see that as the band's problem at all.
That opinion seems to be at odds with the opinion that the band is a fan-friendly band. Do you believe they are a fan-friendly band?
Do you not get that Pearl Jam organized this North Carolina concert? Do you not get that they collected money from fans months in advance of this concert? They have a duty of care for every single person that accepted their invitation and paid money. If they don't, then they are no different than the corporations you hate that care little for the little guy.
I think you know I get all that. And yes, I do consider PJ fan friendly and within reason, and I don't feel like the travel expenses of fans should be their problem or concern. They never asked anyone to travel to see them. Why should they be made to feel responsible for decisions that fans make in their personal lives? IMO, PJ is only responsible for what happens at the shows and within the fan club on an adminstrative level.
Also, I do not consider selling a ticket an invitation.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
To be totally honest, i don't feel like the band should give a second thought to the travel expenses of those who booked non-refundable trips to attend their shows. I don't see that as the band's problem at all.
. . . said the troll.
08.06.2000 • Greensboro
06.26.2006 • St. Paul
11.30.2012 • Fort Lauderdale [EV]
10.29.2013 • Charlottesville
The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.
So?
So maybe you don't cancel on fans at the last minute if you have a history of playing concerts in places that have repressive laws.
People who bought tickets to this show, purchased air fare, purchased hotel rooms etc. are more than allowed to be PISSED! And they certainly don't need some "holier than thou", "all knowing" fans on this board to rub their noses in it. You have been right all along bootlegger10, it was complete HORSESHIT that they waiting until the last minute to cancel this show.
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
So what I take from this thread is that the band can't be expected to protest all the time. Just when Clooney & Co think it's a good time to protest. That's not sheepish at all.
So what I take from this thread is that the band can't be expected to protest all the time. Just when Clooney & Co think it's a good time to protest. That's not sheepish at all.
The band should protest whatever they want, whenever they want, and however they want. Their political actions and beliefs are not less important than their supposed obligation to fans. If you are unhappy with their decision, stop buying their records, stop going to shows, stop paying for fan club membership, etc. Just as they have a right to do as they please, so do you have a right to do as you please. It has nothing to do with being sheep-like. For instance, you criticizing their decision after a shitload of other fans on here have done the same would make you a sheep by your own definition. Hell, let's just call everyone who participated in the March on Washington and other protests during the Civil Rights movement sheep, too -- I mean, the vast majority of them wouldn't have protested on their own if others hadn't started a protest and built momentum for it first. How many political or social movements have succeeded without a) people beginning a movement; and b) others following and lending support to that movement? This whole "sheep" thing is getting ridiculous.
Post edited by walkunafraid on
Everything has chains...Absolutely nothing's changed. - PJ
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.
So?
So maybe you don't cancel on fans at the last minute if you have a history of playing concerts in places that have repressive laws.
People who bought tickets to this show, purchased air fare, purchased hotel rooms etc. are more than allowed to be PISSED! And they certainly don't need some "holier than thou", "all knowing" fans on this board to rub their noses in it. You have been right all along bootlegger10, it was complete HORSESHIT that they waiting until the last minute to cancel this show.
Thanks. I love this band and think the band members are all great people and bring a lot of light into the world, but in this instance I think they were very wrong and have emailed the 10c my opinion (in a nicer tone of course) so that there is a chance the band will find out that not everyone agrees with how they handled this. Everyone has a circle they run with and I'm sure theirs would look down on them for playing the show. I know it won't mean anything and will probably hit the trash folder in about the same time it took the interest in the band's bank accounts to make up for the lost earnings at Raleigh, but I had to get it off my chest. We'll see where my next fan club ticket seats are at. Better bring some tissues for that nose bleed!
Dude....its a fucking concert. People's rights are at stake, they made a stand, it sucks for those that had tickets to the show.
But its a fucking concert. A CONCERT. 3 hours of music.
North carolina is beautiful. Spend the day on vacation with your friends, enjoy the sites. Jesus H, people are talking about suing the band?? This is over the edge, for a group of fans known for being over the edge. My god, have some perspective.
I genuinely feel bad for those that were excited for the concert....but its a fucking concert.
We are talking about 3 hours of entertainment here. Yes, the anticipation and the build up made this anlet down. But seriously....actual quotes....."we were used as pawns." "Pj doesnt give a shit about their fans". Wow, get over yourselves. This is some serious privileged lunacy here.
The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.
So?
So maybe you don't cancel on fans at the last minute if you have a history of playing concerts in places that have repressive laws.
People who bought tickets to this show, purchased air fare, purchased hotel rooms etc. are more than allowed to be PISSED! And they certainly don't need some "holier than thou", "all knowing" fans on this board to rub their noses in it. You have been right all along bootlegger10, it was complete HORSESHIT that they waiting until the last minute to cancel this show.
Thanks. I love this band and think the band members are all great people and bring a lot of light into the world, but in this instance I think they were very wrong and have emailed the 10c my opinion (in a nicer tone of course) so that there is a chance the band will find out that not everyone agrees with how they handled this. Everyone has a circle they run with and I'm sure theirs would look down on them for playing the show. I know it won't mean anything and will probably hit the trash folder in about the same time it took the interest in the band's bank accounts to make up for the lost earnings at Raleigh, but I had to get it off my chest. We'll see where my next fan club ticket seats are at. Better bring some tissues for that nose bleed!
Eh, you really think the band didn't realize that a shitload of their fans would be upset and disagree with the cancellation without you sending an email?
Everything has chains...Absolutely nothing's changed. - PJ
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.
So?
So maybe you don't cancel on fans at the last minute if you have a history of playing concerts in places that have repressive laws.
People who bought tickets to this show, purchased air fare, purchased hotel rooms etc. are more than allowed to be PISSED! And they certainly don't need some "holier than thou", "all knowing" fans on this board to rub their noses in it. You have been right all along bootlegger10, it was complete HORSESHIT that they waiting until the last minute to cancel this show.
Thanks. I love this band and think the band members are all great people and bring a lot of light into the world, but in this instance I think they were very wrong and have emailed the 10c my opinion (in a nicer tone of course) so that there is a chance the band will find out that not everyone agrees with how they handled this. Everyone has a circle they run with and I'm sure theirs would look down on them for playing the show. I know it won't mean anything and will probably hit the trash folder in about the same time it took the interest in the band's bank accounts to make up for the lost earnings at Raleigh, but I had to get it off my chest. We'll see where my next fan club ticket seats are at. Better bring some tissues for that nose bleed!
Eh, you really think the band didn't realize that a shitload of their fans would be upset and disagree with the cancellation without you sending an email?
Exactly, and the timing of this does stink. But some people have completely lost their shit here.
The ironic part of all of this is that the band just got done with a South American tour, where many countries have laws and cultures that are exponentially more repressive to the LGBT community and other minority groups such as women.
So?
So maybe you don't cancel on fans at the last minute if you have a history of playing concerts in places that have repressive laws.
People who bought tickets to this show, purchased air fare, purchased hotel rooms etc. are more than allowed to be PISSED! And they certainly don't need some "holier than thou", "all knowing" fans on this board to rub their noses in it. You have been right all along bootlegger10, it was complete HORSESHIT that they waiting until the last minute to cancel this show.
Thanks. I love this band and think the band members are all great people and bring a lot of light into the world, but in this instance I think they were very wrong and have emailed the 10c my opinion (in a nicer tone of course) so that there is a chance the band will find out that not everyone agrees with how they handled this. Everyone has a circle they run with and I'm sure theirs would look down on them for playing the show. I know it won't mean anything and will probably hit the trash folder in about the same time it took the interest in the band's bank accounts to make up for the lost earnings at Raleigh, but I had to get it off my chest. We'll see where my next fan club ticket seats are at. Better bring some tissues for that nose bleed!
Eh, you really think the band didn't realize that a shitload of their fans would be upset and disagree with the cancellation without you sending an email?
I was also asking for a refund of my Columbia tickets at the same time.
Dude....its a fucking concert. People's rights are at stake, they made a stand, it sucks for those that had tickets to the show.
But its a fucking concert. A CONCERT. 3 hours of music.
North carolina is beautiful. Spend the day on vacation with your friends, enjoy the sites. Jesus H, people are talking about suing the band?? This is over the edge, for a group of fans known for being over the edge. My god, have some perspective.
I genuinely feel bad for those that were excited for the concert....but its a fucking concert.
We are talking about 3 hours of entertainment here. Yes, the anticipation and the build up made this anlet down. But seriously....actual quotes....."we were used as pawns." "Pj doesnt give a shit about their fans". Wow, get over yourselves. This is some serious privileged lunacy here.
Dude....its a fucking concert. People's rights are at stake, they made a stand, it sucks for those that had tickets to the show.
But its a fucking concert. A CONCERT. 3 hours of music.
North carolina is beautiful. Spend the day on vacation with your friends, enjoy the sites. Jesus H, people are talking about suing the band?? This is over the edge, for a group of fans known for being over the edge. My god, have some perspective.
I genuinely feel bad for those that were excited for the concert....but its a fucking concert.
We are talking about 3 hours of entertainment here. Yes, the anticipation and the build up made this anlet down. But seriously....actual quotes....."we were used as pawns." "Pj doesnt give a shit about their fans". Wow, get over yourselves. This is some serious privileged lunacy here.
Fucking lawsuits...
No, 15,000 people were impacted by their decision. This wasn't some small thing you make it out to be. 5 people took it upon themselves to unilaterally make a last minute decision that impacted 15,000 people negatively, when the opposite decision wouldn't have impacted 15,000 people negatively, and wouldn't have been seen as support for the stupid law.
I'm not going to sue the band. That is stupid. But I don't believe this is "just a concert" either, otherwise PJ canceling it wouldn't have been a big deal. Obviously a concert is not life/death, but you try to get 15,000 people to show up to a venue (and some coming from across the country and the world) for something that isn't a big deal.
To me it is not really about the concert, it is about peoples' time and money. It is about showing respect to your fans, especially the traveling fans.
"To be totally honest, i don't feel like the band should give a second thought to the travel expenses of those who booked non-refundable trips to attend their shows. I don't see that as the band's problem at all."
. . . said the troll.
Lol. I'm not a troll. I just don't feel like the band should have to worry about travel plans made by people. If the show had been arranged and advertised as a destination show that included travel packages or something I would think it's something they should be considering when making decisions.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
This is a human rights issue. That is the fundamental thing here.
Everyone has a right to their own opinion though...
Makes no sense. Plus, there was no new or pending legislation that had caused a wave of protest in South America. Plus they aren't South American.
that makes sense
London, ON - Sep 12, 2005
Toronto, ON - Aug 21, 2009
Toronto, ON- Sep 11 2011
Hamilton, ON- Sep 15 2011
London, ON- Jul 16 2013
Buffalo, NY- Oct 12 2013
I wasn't in the room when the band talked about this decision, but I believe two things should have been said that would lead to not cancelling the shows:
#1 - "Guys, we waited too long. The time to act was 8 days ago but we didn't. That is our fault and we shouldn't make our indecision a cause for fans to be out of hotel and airfare costs. We waited too long and we should bear the brunt of any criticism for playing."
Because I like to have fun when I post too, this comment would have been followed up with "But Bruce canceled..." from someone in the band.
#2 - "We've never canceled a show before in all the other states/countries we played, so it would not be fair now to fans to not play."
Do you not get that Pearl Jam organized this North Carolina concert? Do you not get that they collected money from fans months in advance of this concert? They have a duty of care for every single person that accepted their invitation and paid money. If they don't, then they are no different than the corporations you hate that care little for the little guy.
And yes, I do consider PJ fan friendly and within reason, and I don't feel like the travel expenses of fans should be their problem or concern. They never asked anyone to travel to see them. Why should they be made to feel responsible for decisions that fans make in their personal lives? IMO, PJ is only responsible for what happens at the shows and within the fan club on an adminstrative level.
Also, I do not consider selling a ticket an invitation.
06.26.2006 • St. Paul
11.30.2012 • Fort Lauderdale [EV]
10.29.2013 • Charlottesville
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
But its a fucking concert. A CONCERT. 3 hours of music.
North carolina is beautiful. Spend the day on vacation with your friends, enjoy the sites. Jesus H, people are talking about suing the band?? This is over the edge, for a group of fans known for being over the edge. My god, have some perspective.
I genuinely feel bad for those that were excited for the concert....but its a fucking concert.
We are talking about 3 hours of entertainment here. Yes, the anticipation and the build up made this anlet down. But seriously....actual quotes....."we were used as pawns." "Pj doesnt give a shit about their fans". Wow, get over yourselves. This is some serious privileged lunacy here.
Fucking lawsuits...
Here to die.
Scared alive.
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
Here to die.
Scared alive.
2010: Newark 5/18 MSG 5/20-21 2011: PJ20 9/3-4 2012: Made In America 9/2
2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
2015: NYC 9/23 2016: Tampa 4/11 Philly 4/28-29 MSG 5/1-2 Fenway 8/5+8/7
2017: RRHoF 4/7 2018: Fenway 9/2+9/4 2021: Sea Hear Now 9/18
2022: MSG 9/11 2024: MSG 9/3-4 Philly 9/7+9/9 Fenway 9/15+9/17
I'm not going to sue the band. That is stupid. But I don't believe this is "just a concert" either, otherwise PJ canceling it wouldn't have been a big deal. Obviously a concert is not life/death, but you try to get 15,000 people to show up to a venue (and some coming from across the country and the world) for something that isn't a big deal.
To me it is not really about the concert, it is about peoples' time and money. It is about showing respect to your fans, especially the traveling fans.
This was a pointless action