Don't be afraid to call your hotels and airlines. Get them on the phone and rip em out. Well maybe be nice first but don't be shy. Good luck getting refunds, and I hope you get some enjoyment in lieu of the show. And I hope everyone can be respectful on the matter here. I know it's a frustrating issue, but come on with the name calling. Show some class guys
Seriously, PJ fans...its okay to acknowledge they didn't handle this properly.
Yeah, everyone's been so shy to criticize them in here. ;-)
Ultimately, there was no way to handle this where you wouldn't have upset some people (I've been going back and forth with 10c for a week about not wanting to attend because of this law, for example), in which case they should do what felt appropriate for themselves, which I'm assuming they did.
The sense of entitlement over a concert here is ridiculous. For real. This is a group of musicians who never have to work a day in their life again, but continue to be as good as ever live on a regular basis, ensuring you will get to see them again, and buy your fucking stickers again, or whatever.
Tons of respect for Pearl Jam today. You can compare this to laws in other states or conditions in other countries or whatever, but that's silly. The national focus is on this one. As it should be. Discrimination based on any factor in a government sanctioned form is no good.
99.9% of the fan base have no idea what it would be like to be transgendered and needing to use a public bathroom. The overwhelming amount of Pearl Jam fans are white men, who don't know what it's like to be discriminated against. You might not know what it's like to live in a city where the minimum wage doesn't cut it, but unlike other cities like Seattle, have a local government who can do nothing about it.
You live in your bubble focusing on what rock show you can no longer attend this week, when people have struggles and issues that are based in real life.
Discrimination is not a left vs right, Dem vs Republican debate, it's a human rights issue.
And it doesn't matter what you think Pearl Jam should do. They did what they thought they should do.
Additionally, I understand it sucks to be out money, but let this be a lesson. I don't travel for shows much, maybe once a year, but always make sure I can cancel.
If you travel for a rock show, there is always a small chance that something can happen. Flights are tricky/expensive to change but can be changed. Hotel reservations are generally able to be made and cancelled at no cost unless you use a bargain service, which maybe you shouldn't do for a show. Same with rental cars. Sure they have their place, but for concerts, sporting events, anything that is an event, you shouldn't try to save a couple of bucks and you should always chose the options with the ability to cancel.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph: The only proof he needed for the existence of God was music." KV Jr.
Is there a case to be made that waiting till two days before the show was the right way to handle this? I've been racking my brain and can't come up with one. This really feels like a misstep.
Is there a case to be made that waiting till two days before the show was the right way to handle this? I've been racking my brain and can't come up with one. This really feels like a misstep.
The only possible reason for waiting is if they thought the law would miraculously get changed prior to them having to make this decision.
Is there a case to be made that waiting till two days before the show was the right way to handle this? I've been racking my brain and can't come up with one. This really feels like a misstep.
Without any other information as to why that is the case, yes, it would be hard to make an informed case about this issue. But since I know Louis CK canceled a show 48 hours out, and Bruce also did it, there does seem to be something to it.
Just a note, though, according to Google News, there are 296 articles for "Pearl Jam Cancels Raleigh"
I would definitely be upset if a concert i was going to got cancelled, esp if I had a hotel room, flight, etc. I would also be upset if i wasnt afforded the basic freedom to use the restroom that suits my gender.
Its sorta like being white, and being uspet that the bus was cancelled because Rosa Parks wasnt allowed in the front. Yes, you can be upset you didnt get to work that day....but a whole group of people dont have some basic rights. So, in the end, I would understand. Its definitely upsetting when you dont get to see the band you love. But its more upsetting when a huge group of americans are being denied rights.
My suggestion...if you have unrefundable tickets, see if you can transfer them to another state. If not, go on your vacation and enjoy your pto, knowing that you dont have to worry about some of the same problems that trans people have to deal with. And maybe join the fight.
If this is the worst thing to happen to you lately - lost $ on your flight/hotel room and your rock concert got cancelled - you're doing pretty good in life so stop your crying. There are people out there with real problems.
This is an unfair judgment. Pretty much Pearl Jam concerts are my only travel because I can't afford anything else. I scrimp and save between tours and make financial sacrifices to be able to do it. If this cancellation happened to me, I'd be totally pissed because it would constitute a huge financial loss. Not everybody made it out of the 90s with corporate incomes.
Is there a case to be made that waiting till two days before the show was the right way to handle this? I've been racking my brain and can't come up with one. This really feels like a misstep.
I wonder if perhaps there was possibly an ultimatum or maybe a deal that didn't fell through. Hey, you never know.
99.9% of the fan base have no idea what it would be like to be transgendered and needing to use a public bathroom. The overwhelming amount of Pearl Jam fans are white men, who don't know what it's like to be discriminated against.
This is true. But I gotta admit to being kinda confused on this whole issue. You note how awkward it must be to be transgendered and have to use a public restroom. I agree it must be. But wasn't the intent of this law to designate which bathroom to use? So that transgendered people don't have to wonder which one they should use or which one might offend people.Again, I'm of the understanding that this was the lawmakers intent. I don't think there was any malice behind it. But again, I'm not complete sure about all aspects of the issue.
Bandaged hand in hand with the band's decision I stand.
8-28-92 Harriet Island
6-16-93 University Theatre, UM
2-8-95 Adams Field House
6-20-98 Washington-Grizzly Stadium
5-28-03 Adams Field House
8-29-05 Adams Field House
7-22-06 Gorge Amphitheater
9-3-11 Alpine Valley
9-30-12 Adams Field House
10-31-12 The Pearl - Eddie Vedder
11-01-12 The Pearl - Eddie Vedder
9-6-13 Key Arena
6-20-14 Milan
6-22-14 Trieste
11-28-15 Mexico City
99.9% of the fan base have no idea what it would be like to be transgendered and needing to use a public bathroom. The overwhelming amount of Pearl Jam fans are white men, who don't know what it's like to be discriminated against.
This is true. But I gotta admit to being kinda confused on this whole issue. You note how awkward it must be to be transgendered and have to use a public restroom. I agree it must be. But wasn't the intent of this law to designate which bathroom to use? So that transgendered people don't have to wonder which one they should use or which one might offend people.Again, I'm of the understanding that this was the lawmakers intent. I don't think there was any malice behind it. But again, I'm not complete sure about all aspects of the issue.
If im not mistaken...this law states....if you were born male, and had a sex change to become female....then you have to use the male bathroom. Cause that's on your birth certificate.
99.9% of the fan base have no idea what it would be like to be transgendered and needing to use a public bathroom. The overwhelming amount of Pearl Jam fans are white men, who don't know what it's like to be discriminated against.
This is true. But I gotta admit to being kinda confused on this whole issue. You note how awkward it must be to be transgendered and have to use a public restroom. I agree it must be. But wasn't the intent of this law to designate which bathroom to use? So that transgendered people don't have to wonder which one they should use or which one might offend people.Again, I'm of the understanding that this was the lawmakers intent. I don't think there was any malice behind it. But again, I'm not complete sure about all aspects of the issue.
I really like that you looked at this from a different angle, one I hadn't even considered. Kudos to you. Very interesting opinion at the least
Is there a case to be made that waiting till two days before the show was the right way to handle this? I've been racking my brain and can't come up with one. This really feels like a misstep.
Way more publicity. If the show was cancelled two weeks ago, we'd be talking about it here, but none of the casual fans--the majority filling up those thousands of seats to hear Even Flow--would take much notice. There would not be 300 articles on Google News, to be sure.
There's a greater potential for economic disruption as well, and nothing gets people politically motivated like impacts to business. The arena can't book something else on that date, hotels and rental car agencies will be inundated with cancellations and chargebacks, restaurants won't see the additional business, etc etc.
2008 Tampa - 2013 Buffalo - 2016 Tampa - 2016 Fenway II Audioslave 2005 MSG
99.9% of the fan base have no idea what it would be like to be transgendered and needing to use a public bathroom. The overwhelming amount of Pearl Jam fans are white men, who don't know what it's like to be discriminated against.
This is true. But I gotta admit to being kinda confused on this whole issue. You note how awkward it must be to be transgendered and have to use a public restroom. I agree it must be. But wasn't the intent of this law to designate which bathroom to use? So that transgendered people don't have to wonder which one they should use or which one might offend people.Again, I'm of the understanding that this was the lawmakers intent. I don't think there was any malice behind it. But again, I'm not complete sure about all aspects of the issue.
you can read up on the law more on your own but basically it restricts restroom use to that which is on your birth certificate, which requires a whole lot of effort to change in NC.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph: The only proof he needed for the existence of God was music." KV Jr.
But wasn't the intent of this law to designate which bathroom to use? So that transgendered people don't have to wonder which one they should use or which one might offend people. Again, I'm of the understanding that this was the lawmakers intent. I don't think there was any malice behind it. But again, I'm not complete sure about all aspects of the issue.
It is the opposite, it makes trans people use the opposite bathroom than they want to use, and puts trans people at risk, such as a trans woman being forced to use a men's room against her will. It is a made up law based on no incidents of their sexual predator fantasies ever happening. The last thing a trans person in a bathroom wants it to be ID'd as a trans person in a bathroom.
As for malice, the group behind the bathroom bills is the Liberty Counsel, an evangelical Christian group that is also behind the "religious freedom" laws, so people who hate gay people get a special license to discriminate that supercedes the non-discrimination laws that exist to protect LGBT citizens. Definitely malice.
I've been looking forward to this concert ever since I saw pearl Jam last in Charlotte in 2013. Extremely heartbroken they have canceled two days prior. Sooner notice would have given me a chance to attend ones of the shows in SC or VA. Their music means so much to me. Maybe I'm selfish. I did not bring on HB2. I just wanted to see my favorite band live again.
Is there a case to be made that waiting till two days before the show was the right way to handle this? I've been racking my brain and can't come up with one. This really feels like a misstep.
Way more publicity. If the show was cancelled two weeks ago, we'd be talking about it here, but none of the casual fans--the majority filling up those thousands of seats to hear Even Flow--would take much notice. There would not be 300 articles on Google News, to be sure.
There's a greater potential for economic disruption as well, and nothing gets people politically motivated like impacts to business. The arena can't book something else on that date, hotels and rental car agencies will be inundated with cancellations and chargebacks, restaurants won't see the additional business, etc etc.
I disagree. I think this would have been exactly as big a story last week as it is this week. I don't think the two days notice plays any role in media attention. Only in fan anger.
99.9% of the fan base have no idea what it would be like to be transgendered and needing to use a public bathroom. The overwhelming amount of Pearl Jam fans are white men, who don't know what it's like to be discriminated against. You might not know what it's like to live in a city where the minimum wage doesn't cut it, but unlike other cities like Seattle, have a local government who can do nothing about it.
You live in your bubble focusing on what rock show you can no longer attend this week, when people have struggles and issues that are based in real life.
NO I attend a music concert to escape from "the real life" and try to have some enjoyment in life.
We are talking about bathrooms. That is what we are talking about freaking bathrooms.
Listen I have no argument that the law is non sense and needs to be changed but canceling a concert on two days notice is a poor decision.
99.9% of the fan base have no idea what it would be like to be transgendered and needing to use a public bathroom. The overwhelming amount of Pearl Jam fans are white men, who don't know what it's like to be discriminated against.
This is true. But I gotta admit to being kinda confused on this whole issue. You note how awkward it must be to be transgendered and have to use a public restroom. I agree it must be. But wasn't the intent of this law to designate which bathroom to use? So that transgendered people don't have to wonder which one they should use or which one might offend people.Again, I'm of the understanding that this was the lawmakers intent. I don't think there was any malice behind it. But again, I'm not complete sure about all aspects of the issue.
I really like that you looked at this from a different angle, one I hadn't even considered. Kudos to you. Very interesting opinion at the least
Well I just feel that no lawmaker, even the dumbest among them, is going to discriminate just for the sake of discriminating. Especially in today's PC culture. So I feel the lawmakers were probably acting in good faith...but just without much sensitivity or discretion
Is there a case to be made that waiting till two days before the show was the right way to handle this? I've been racking my brain and can't come up with one. This really feels like a misstep.
I racked my brain a bit too, am not certain, but believe by waiting only two days before, it's more impactful to the arena and local economy as there's no time to schedule something, or anything in it's place, and they were preparing for more commerce, security, & such, and now nothing. Schedules & preparations were surely set up by the latest, this morning, and now nothing with no time to schedule anything whatsoever. Probably more costly for the band to do it this way (& especially their fans) but I guess way more impactful???
I've been looking forward to this concert ever since I saw pearl Jam last in Charlotte in 2013. Extremely heartbroken they have canceled two days prior. Sooner notice would have given me a chance to attend ones of the shows in SC or VA. Their music means so much to me. Maybe I'm selfish. I did not bring on HB2. I just wanted to see my favorite band live again.
Oh, you are definitely selfish. As another person said earlier, you are collateral damage. Deal with it.
At least, that's the tenor of the posts I've read supporting PJ's decision.
When one does not see what one does not see, one does not even see that one is blind. -Paul Veyne
Louis CK went ahead with his shows and donated the proceeds to a Equality NC.
I'm referring to him canceling his Madison Square Garden shows 48 hours out before a winter storm last year, which makes me think that is some magic financial hurdle at an arena show where a decision has to be made. As to why you can't do it before then, I have no clue, heh.
I hope Pearl Jam reads this. Why? Because they need support in this too.
At first, I was little ticked, for the fans. Then I had to think.
Which is what I assume is a similar process Pearl Jam had to go through to make the decision they did.
I think some of the fans here owe Pearl Jam an apology. This band has everyone in mind. Not just you. To think they didn't consider your reaction and views is ludicrous.
Let's also be real. They are more than a rock band now. Middle aged men very advanced in their professional life, businessmen, activists, parents, role models, that have proven to live by principal. You know this, if you're a fan of them enough to travel by plane to see them. It's why they are as good as they are, why we follow them, and why we love them. Rhetorical questions: Do you expect they would compromise their principles, in order to not anger a few people, and more importantly, do you think they are at a stage in their career that they can't do what they want? In other words, I don't think they give a f**k if some don't understand, nor do I think they should. My opinion is, I'm betting their collective attitude is, 'if we haven't even earned that right and respect, especially after giving what we have, then what have we earned?' They are beyond just the music now. Accept it or don't.
Speaking of what they have given: hope, love ideas, inspiration and fucking awesome music to millions of people for over 20 years. And they make a decision, that we know wasn't easy for them, that they feel is best for everyone in the end (not to mention they have a track record of being on the right side), and the they get shit on by certain people. I say, f***ing see ya to those fans. I understand the frustration, but some here should do some thinking instead of reacting. Money comes and goes, is that the worst of it? So if you were refunded the total amount, Pearl Jam would be your best friends again? I think not. And I'll close this paragraph by stating, are you not entitled in your own life to make stands that hurt some but help others? Do you care as much as Pj does when making those decisions, or do you just do what's best for you and fuck the rest? If you're like the majority, you wouldn't care less about who it affects when making your stands. Pj does, trust that. I bet they want to offer refunds on planes etc, but shitty people would take advantage of it. It's not smart of them to open that door. Nor do they have to. Take them or leave them, it's always been that way. They aren't happy you lost money, this I believe.
Lastly, what really made me understand is when thought about this: imagine if someone you love, a son or daughter, parent or friend, or you yourself, were LGBT, and were being treated this way. Then, would you still be so mad? And, the life you will lead post cancelled concert, is it as bad as being LBGT and treated differently your whole life and up to this point in time? No, this move by them doesn't fix that. But history will note that they made a statement, and it will not note that you lost money. Further, if I was LBGT, I would feel like there is hope with any awareness of this bullshit, no matter how small. What moves have you made recently to change others lives? That is what Pj stands for now.
I applaud them. There are no winners in this. By the way, I'm not LGBT and I'm a registered republican. I am however impacted enough to investigate further and question what is going on, because I trust their decision.
Comments
Well maybe be nice first but don't be shy. Good luck getting refunds, and I hope you get some enjoyment in lieu of the show.
And I hope everyone can be respectful on the matter here. I know it's a frustrating issue, but come on with the name calling. Show some class guys
Ultimately, there was no way to handle this where you wouldn't have upset some people (I've been going back and forth with 10c for a week about not wanting to attend because of this law, for example), in which case they should do what felt appropriate for themselves, which I'm assuming they did.
Tons of respect for Pearl Jam today. You can compare this to laws in other states or conditions in other countries or whatever, but that's silly. The national focus is on this one. As it should be. Discrimination based on any factor in a government sanctioned form is no good.
99.9% of the fan base have no idea what it would be like to be transgendered and needing to use a public bathroom. The overwhelming amount of Pearl Jam fans are white men, who don't know what it's like to be discriminated against. You might not know what it's like to live in a city where the minimum wage doesn't cut it, but unlike other cities like Seattle, have a local government who can do nothing about it.
You live in your bubble focusing on what rock show you can no longer attend this week, when people have struggles and issues that are based in real life.
Discrimination is not a left vs right, Dem vs Republican debate, it's a human rights issue.
And it doesn't matter what you think Pearl Jam should do. They did what they thought they should do.
Additionally, I understand it sucks to be out money, but let this be a lesson. I don't travel for shows much, maybe once a year, but always make sure I can cancel.
If you travel for a rock show, there is always a small chance that something can happen. Flights are tricky/expensive to change but can be changed. Hotel reservations are generally able to be made and cancelled at no cost unless you use a bargain service, which maybe you shouldn't do for a show. Same with rental cars. Sure they have their place, but for concerts, sporting events, anything that is an event, you shouldn't try to save a couple of bucks and you should always chose the options with the ability to cancel.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Just a note, though, according to Google News, there are 296 articles for "Pearl Jam Cancels Raleigh"
Nuclear fission
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
6-16-93 University Theatre, UM
2-8-95 Adams Field House
6-20-98 Washington-Grizzly Stadium
5-28-03 Adams Field House
8-29-05 Adams Field House
7-22-06 Gorge Amphitheater
9-3-11 Alpine Valley
9-30-12 Adams Field House
10-31-12 The Pearl - Eddie Vedder
11-01-12 The Pearl - Eddie Vedder
9-6-13 Key Arena
6-20-14 Milan
6-22-14 Trieste
11-28-15 Mexico City
Nuclear fission
There's a greater potential for economic disruption as well, and nothing gets people politically motivated like impacts to business. The arena can't book something else on that date, hotels and rental car agencies will be inundated with cancellations and chargebacks, restaurants won't see the additional business, etc etc.
2008 Tampa - 2013 Buffalo - 2016 Tampa - 2016 Fenway II
Audioslave 2005 MSG
As for malice, the group behind the bathroom bills is the Liberty Counsel, an evangelical Christian group that is also behind the "religious freedom" laws, so people who hate gay people get a special license to discriminate that supercedes the non-discrimination laws that exist to protect LGBT citizens. Definitely malice.
http://www.advocate.com/religion/2016/4/14/liberty-counsel-admits-its-behind-bathroom-bills-nationwide-video
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I'll ride the wave where it takes me...
We are talking about bathrooms. That is what we are talking about freaking bathrooms.
Listen I have no argument that the law is non sense and needs to be changed but canceling a concert on two days notice is a poor decision.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
At least, that's the tenor of the posts I've read supporting PJ's decision.
At first, I was little ticked, for the fans. Then I had to think.
Which is what I assume is a similar process Pearl Jam had to go through to make the decision they did.
I think some of the fans here owe Pearl Jam an apology. This band has everyone in mind. Not just you. To think they didn't consider your reaction and views is ludicrous.
Let's also be real. They are more than a rock band now. Middle aged men very advanced in their professional life, businessmen, activists, parents, role models, that have proven to live by principal. You know this, if you're a fan of them enough to travel by plane to see them. It's why they are as good as they are, why we follow them, and why we love them. Rhetorical questions: Do you expect they would compromise their principles, in order to not anger a few people, and more importantly, do you think they are at a stage in their career that they can't do what they want? In other words, I don't think they give a f**k if some don't understand, nor do I think they should. My opinion is, I'm betting their collective attitude is, 'if we haven't even earned that right and respect, especially after giving what we have, then what have we earned?' They are beyond just the music now. Accept it or don't.
Speaking of what they have given: hope, love ideas, inspiration and fucking awesome music to millions of people for over 20 years. And they make a decision, that we know wasn't easy for them, that they feel is best for everyone in the end (not to mention they have a track record of being on the right side), and the they get shit on by certain people. I say, f***ing see ya to those fans. I understand the frustration, but some here should do some thinking instead of reacting. Money comes and goes, is that the worst of it? So if you were refunded the total amount, Pearl Jam would be your best friends again? I think not. And I'll close this paragraph by stating, are you not entitled in your own life to make stands that hurt some but help others? Do you care as much as Pj does when making those decisions, or do you just do what's best for you and fuck the rest? If you're like the majority, you wouldn't care less about who it affects when making your stands. Pj does, trust that. I bet they want to offer refunds on planes etc, but shitty people would take advantage of it. It's not smart of them to open that door. Nor do they have to. Take them or leave them, it's always been that way. They aren't happy you lost money, this I believe.
Lastly, what really made me understand is when thought about this: imagine if someone you love, a son or daughter, parent or friend, or you yourself, were LGBT, and were being treated this way. Then, would you still be so mad? And, the life you will lead post cancelled concert, is it as bad as being LBGT and treated differently your whole life and up to this point in time? No, this move by them doesn't fix that. But history will note that they made a statement, and it will not note that you lost money. Further, if I was LBGT, I would feel like there is hope with any awareness of this bullshit, no matter how small. What moves have you made recently to change others lives? That is what Pj stands for now.
I applaud them. There are no winners in this. By the way, I'm not LGBT and I'm a registered republican. I am however impacted enough to investigate further and question what is going on, because I trust their decision.
I believe that was their intention.