Springsteen Cancels NC Show PJ should too

jeffwalsh

In response, ACLU of North Carolina Acting Executive Director Sarah Preston said the following:

“Gov. McCrory’s actions today are a poor effort to save face after his sweeping attacks on the LGBT community, and they fall far short of correcting the damage done when he signed the harmful House Bill 2 into law which stigmatizes and mandates discrimination against gay and transgender people. With this executive order, LGBT individuals still lack legal protections from discrimination, and transgender people are still explicitly targeted by being forced to use the wrong restroom.

“An impressive and growing number of businesses, faith leaders, and public figures have come out to condemn House Bill 2 as an unnecessary and dangerous measure that unfairly targets gay and transgender people. Regardless of political affiliation, more and more political leaders also understand that discrimination is bad for business and politically toxic. The public believes in equality and fairness and House Bill 2 and measures like it are out of step with the values of most Americans.

“Efforts to divide the LGBT community by extending limited protections but leaving in place the rules mandating discrimination against the transgender community will only strengthen our resolve to fight back against this discriminatory and misguided legislative action. We call on Gov. McCrory and the North Carolina legislature to repeal House Bill 2 and replace it with full non-discrimination protections for all LGBT people.”

PJ_Soul

It hadn't occurred to me that it might divide the LGBT community. I would have thought they all would have stood pretty much in the same place on the issue.... Does anyone else feel that these limited protections would cause such a divide??

I can't believe such bills are still being passed this day and age btw. I feel like they are actually illegal laws, if the Constitution means anything.... And that the supreme court could be considered a risky intervenor is even more surprising. I like a lot of things about the USA, but damn, it's a strange land in some ways!

joseph33

Punishing the fans to get at state government seems to be a dickhead thing to do.

JP Losman

PJ_Soul said:

I don't think it was dismissive. Just true. That is what that kind of money would go to in this scenario. Taking things to court has a big role a lot of the time. But not this time. The boycotts got action immediately. If you really care about the issue, why aren't you expressing any kind of interest in the governor's actions today btw? I know it's not a cure for the issue, but still... I would have thought more people would be more enthused about the quick effectiveness of these protests. Instead, people still seem to be slagging them.

What effectiveness? What governor actions? HB2 is still the law and the door is still open for plenty of discrimination.

PJ_Soul

JP Losman said:

PJ_Soul said:

I don't think it was dismissive. Just true. That is what that kind of money would go to in this scenario. Taking things to court has a big role a lot of the time. But not this time. The boycotts got action immediately. If you really care about the issue, why aren't you expressing any kind of interest in the governor's actions today btw? I know it's not a cure for the issue, but still... I would have thought more people would be more enthused about the quick effectiveness of these protests. Instead, people still seem to be slagging them.

What effectiveness? What governor actions? HB2 is still the law and the door is still open for plenty of discrimination.

I know that, although you know what governor actions I'm talking about; they are right up there in an article that was posted. Anyway, you have to admit this is a step in the right direction that wouldn't have happened without the publicity of boycotts. It only took what? 3 days for the governor to make this move? If history is any indication, that will likely be the beginning of bigger things. Are you saying that this means absolutely nothing in your mind? That these boycotts, which basically forced the governor to start back tracking within only days, didn't have some impact? I can appreciate an all or nothing now stance on this, but it's not very realistic. I was actually very surprised to see that the state is already starting to back down. I thought it would take way longer for it to begin. No one who supports equality and the fight for civil rights thinks this is enough in the long run, but in the short term I see it as a positive turn. And it showed that boycotting could work to reverse the legislation altogether. The pressure works on them.

CountingSteps

I totally understand Bruce's point, and would support the band if they decide to do the same, but I too think playing the show and using it as a campaign against that particular issue would be way more effective. I mean, when I read the Trump thing Eddie did at Ft Lauderdale, I thought it was just Eddie being Eddie, nothing new. Well, two days later my grandma's sister sent me a message saying she had seen my boys making fun of Trump. It turns out it went viral even here in Chile, and not only in music circles (it's my grandma's sister we are talking about xD).
I guess what I'm trying to say is, they already have massive, international attention on them, so why not using it? A picture (or video) is worth a thousand words, specially nowadays.
Also, PJ is not Bruce. In 1996 they could've stayed home to show how they felt about the Grammys, but they decided to go all the way there.
And, to me, it's the same with Eddie's long, deep speeches in the audiences' languages throughout the world (which I was lucky enough to experience first hand last year). It's about saying what they have to say, and doing it in a way you won't forget.
So, I really hope they do the show, even though I will hate not being there

on2legs

CountingSteps said:

I totally understand Bruce's point, and would support the band if they decide to do the same, but I too think playing the show and using it as a campaign against that particular issue would be way more effective. I mean, when I read the Trump thing Eddie did at Ft Lauderdale, I thought it was just Eddie being Eddie, nothing new. Well, two days later my grandma's sister sent me a message saying she had seen my boys making fun of Trump. It turns out it went viral even here in Chile, and not only in music circles (it's my grandma's sister we are talking about xD).
I guess what I'm trying to say is, they already have massive, international attention on them, so why not using it? A picture (or video) is worth a thousand words, specially nowadays.
Also, PJ is not Bruce. In 1996 they could've stayed home to show how they felt about the Grammys, but they decided to go all the way there.
And, to me, it's the same with Eddie's long, deep speeches in the audiences' languages throughout the world (which I was lucky enough to experience first hand last year). It's about saying what they have to say, and doing it in a way you won't forget.
So, I really hope they do the show, even though I will hate not being there

Isn't your grandma's sister your aunt?

ComeToTX

Tennessee just passed a law that says mental health professionals can deny treatment to LGBT patients.

We'll see how many bands back out of Bonnaroo if it becomes law.

hedonist

on2legs said:

CountingSteps said:

I totally understand Bruce's point, and would support the band if they decide to do the same, but I too think playing the show and using it as a campaign against that particular issue would be way more effective. I mean, when I read the Trump thing Eddie did at Ft Lauderdale, I thought it was just Eddie being Eddie, nothing new. Well, two days later my grandma's sister sent me a message saying she had seen my boys making fun of Trump. It turns out it went viral even here in Chile, and not only in music circles (it's my grandma's sister we are talking about xD).
I guess what I'm trying to say is, they already have massive, international attention on them, so why not using it? A picture (or video) is worth a thousand words, specially nowadays.
Also, PJ is not Bruce. In 1996 they could've stayed home to show how they felt about the Grammys, but they decided to go all the way there.
And, to me, it's the same with Eddie's long, deep speeches in the audiences' languages throughout the world (which I was lucky enough to experience first hand last year). It's about saying what they have to say, and doing it in a way you won't forget.
So, I really hope they do the show, even though I will hate not being there

Isn't your grandma's sister your aunt?

I think that would be a great-aunt.

(mother's sister is an aunt )

Wma31394

Not cool Bruce.. What a dik

ikiT

Bruce Springsteen
Live 1975-85
Side 8
is on my turntable right now.

dpduke69

Cool he stood up for what he believes but he went about it wrong. 2 days before was a total dick move to fans who traveled. He knows his fans travel well.

Wma31394

dpduke69 said:

Cool he stood up for what he believes but he went about it wrong. 2 days before was a total dick move to fans who traveled. He knows his fans travel well.

Spot on

BN113707

I don't understand how "the strongest means I have to raise my voice in opposition" is valid. To me, you've only served yourself, Bruce. If you want to stand up and fight then STAND UP AND FIGHT! How are you possibly helping those who are being victimized by this law by simply refusing to play a show and not using that as an opportunity to speak out against it and bring people together who might share in your belief or others who may not have been aware? You don't get your way so you're taking your ball and going home? Playground logic, Bruce.

JP Losman

PJ_Soul said:

JP Losman said:

PJ_Soul said:

I know that, although you know what governor actions I'm talking about; they are right up there in an article that was posted. Anyway, you have to admit this is a step in the right direction that wouldn't have happened without the publicity of boycotts. It only took what? 3 days for the governor to make this move? If history is any indication, that will likely be the beginning of bigger things. Are you saying that this means absolutely nothing in your mind? That these boycotts, which basically forced the governor to start back tracking within only days, didn't have some impact? I can appreciate an all or nothing now stance on this, but it's not very realistic. I was actually very surprised to see that the state is already starting to back down. I thought it would take way longer for it to begin. No one who supports equality and the fight for civil rights thinks this is enough in the long run, but in the short term I see it as a positive turn. And it showed that boycotting could work to reverse the legislation altogether. The pressure works on them.

http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2016/04/12/mccrory-issues-executive-order-on-hb2-is-it-at-all-meaningful/

http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2016/04/13/mccrory-hb2-executive-order-fails-to-live-up-to-the-hype/

This is my sentiment to the governor's actions, which you seem impressed by

JTH

PJ_Soul said:

It only took what? 3 days for the governor to make this move?

Is that a typo? Did you mean 3 weeks? I believe he signed the bill into law on March 23.

on2legs

BN113707 said:

I don't understand how "the strongest means I have to raise my voice in opposition" is valid. To me, you've only served yourself, Bruce. If you want to stand up and fight then STAND UP AND FIGHT! How are you possibly helping those who are being victimized by this law by simply refusing to play a show and not using that as an opportunity to speak out against it and bring people together who might share in your belief or others who may not have been aware? You don't get your way so you're taking your ball and going home? Playground logic, Bruce.

Speaking out at the concert is preaching to the choir. Cancelling had a way bigger impact.

on2legs

This law is halfway to being repealed. No way that happens without companies pulling out of the state and Bruce cancelling his show.

on2legs

If anything, you guys should be kissing Bruce's ass. 5 days after he cancels the governor is already starting to back down. At this rate it won't be long before the wheels are in motion to repeal it altogether and PJ won't feel the need to cancel. Be happy Bruce did the dirty work and probably saved the show from being cancelled.

JTH

I get the feeling that some people in this thread really want the show to be cancelled just because they can't go to it anyway.

I also love the fact that some here seem to think that the only reason the governor did this half-assed backtrack is because of Springsteen's show being cancelled.

dignin

Bruce is still in the news here in Canada today for canceling in NC. I believe I heard the term "snowballing opposition".

If anyone thinks him making a speech during the concert would have had anywhere near the impact than his cancelling the concert, well, your in denial.

Well done Bruce, keep fighting the good fight.

lolobugg

JTH said:

I get the feeling that some people in this thread really want the show to be cancelled just because they can't go to it anyway.

I also love the fact that some here seem to think that the only reason the governor did this half-assed backtrack is because of Springsteen's show being cancelled.

It does look that way by some of the things people are saying on here.
Bruce's decision was just a small reason that the bastard backtracked. PayPal really hurt him.

on2legs

JTH said:

I get the feeling that some people in this thread really want the show to be cancelled just because they can't go to it anyway.

I also love the fact that some here seem to think that the only reason the governor did this half-assed backtrack is because of Springsteen's show being cancelled.

Why would anyone want the show to be cancelled?

Don't confuse people thinking that cancelling is the strongest message to send with people actively rooting for the show to be canned.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke

JP Losman

I don't think simply a speech during a concert would have that kind of impact. But donating proceeds to the people and organizations actually fighting it DOES make a difference. Fighting it takes time, money, resources and organization. And such a massive gesture of donating proceeds also makes big headlines too. By no means do I think any artist is obligated to do that but if you are going to cancel a show altogether (which has negative effects too), then this is a much better route to do. And the people who are being oppressed by the law in the state it is happening agree.

JP Losman

I also think this is just Bruce fans thinking Bruce can do no wrong. Imagine if Pearl Jam did this and it was being discussed on a Bruce forum in regards to whether Bruce should cancel an upcoming show.

jeffwalsh

JP Losman said:

And the people who are being oppressed by the law in the state it is happening agree.

They do? They all said that?! Also, I think you mean the people affected by the law, everyone in NC is oppressed by it.

on2legs

JP Losman said:

I don't think simply a speech during a concert would have that kind of impact. But donating proceeds to the people and organizations actually fighting it DOES make a difference. Fighting it takes time, money, resources and organization. And such a massive gesture of donating proceeds also makes big headlines too. By no means do I think any artist is obligated to do that but if you are going to cancel a show altogether (which has negative effects too), then this is a much better route to do. And the people who are being oppressed by the law in the state it is happening agree.

Not sure what you mean by time, money, resources and organization.

This has been a group effort by Bruce and many companies, but each acting independently, to bring pressure on the state and its working. It's been less than a week and the law is on the ropes.

JP Losman

The law is on the ropes? How so? Please explain. Please tell me what HB2 was before and after the governor's action. Also, please explain the procedure for how HB2 truly can be repealed. There's only 2 ways, if the legislature does it or if the courts do it. And the places where there is an economic impact from the businesses leaving or performers cancelling ALREADY are strongly against it and in fact this all started because Charlotte was trying to be pro-active. You are looking at 2022 before the district lines can be redrawn. It is a LONG battle in the legislature route. Courts take a long time too but almost certainly will decide this issue first.

JP Losman

jeffwalsh said:

JP Losman said:

And the people who are being oppressed by the law in the state it is happening agree.

They do? They all said that?! Also, I think you mean the people affected by the law, everyone in NC is oppressed by it.

I'm specifically talking about the LGBTQ community and statements released by their organizations that promote their civil rights advocates as well as LGBTQ artists too.

JP Losman

http://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/music/group-asks-artists-keep-n-c-shows-after-springsteen-pulls-n554831