“As is the case virtually every day, Donald Trump is showing the American people that he is a pathological liar. Obviously, while I appreciate that we had supporters at Trump’s rally in Chicago, our campaign did not organize the protests.
“What caused the protests at Trump’s rally is a candidate that has promoted hatred and division against Latinos, Muslims, women, and people with disabilities, and his birther attacks against the legitimacy of President Obama.
“What caused the violence at Trump’s rally is a campaign whose words and actions have encouraged it on the part of his supporters. He recently said of a protester, ‘I want to punch him in the face.’ Another time Trump yearned for the old days when the protester would have been punched and “carried out on a stretcher.’ Then just a few days ago a female reporter apparently was assaulted by his campaign manager.
“When that is what the Trump campaign is doing, we should not be surprised that there is a response.
“What Donald Trump must do now is stop provoking violence and make it clear to his supporters that people who attend his rallies or protest should not be assaulted, should not be punched, should not be kicked. In America people have a right to attend a political rally without fear of physical harm.”
what could that facial expression be a reaction to? who reacts to anything that way, other than Charles manson? shit gets funnier by the minute. the clips are almost identical.
^^^ He makes some good points. However when he says "this is what happens when people go around saying whatever they want". I think you should be able to say whatever you want all the time and if others don't like it then they have a choice of removing themselves from the rhetoric atmosphere all together. It is healthy to speak your mind. If it lands you in trouble well that's the way the cookie crumbles.
^^^ He makes some good points. However when he says "this is what happens when people go around saying whatever they want". I think you should be able to say whatever you want all the time and if others don't like it then they have a choice of removing themselves from the rhetoric atmosphere all together. It is healthy to speak your mind. If it lands you in trouble well that's the way the cookie crumbles.
^^^ He makes some good points. However when he says "this is what happens when people go around saying whatever they want". I think you should be able to say whatever you want all the time and if others don't like it then they have a choice of removing themselves from the rhetoric atmosphere all together. It is healthy to speak your mind. If it lands you in trouble well that's the way the cookie crumbles.
So hate speech is ok. Gotcha.
No it's not. But if you speak it, it will land you in hot water.
Right. Trump is actually inciting hate/violence at this point... Isn't that illegal?
Here's an article from last year about hate speech vs fight speech and their relationship to the first amendment. I would argue that Trump at times has crossed over into unprotected speech by pointing it directly at specific protesters, leading his followers to act on it. If a direct line could be drawn to a specific event where someone was placed in danger because of something he says, that would be considered "fight speech". Just being a hateful ass is still protected under the first amendment, which I agree with. Ideas shouldn't be allowed/disallowed by the government. Inciting or putting people in danger should be and is illegal. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/07/no-theres-no-hate-speech-exception-to-the-first-amendment/
If I were going to a website that has a MAJORITY of members that were Conservatives, then started baiting threads everyday, that I knew were going to create arguments, I would hope to begin to think just maybe I needed to rethink my need for attention.
I've asked the same questions you've asked a couple of times. myyoung, and never really gotten much a fix on it. Odd as it may seem, there are some very conservative people who enjoy the music made by a band that has been outspokenly liberal in their viewpoints. I sometimes wonder if there are very liberal minded folks who still listen to Ted Nugent. Yes, very perplexing.
Is it really perplexing? With all due respect this can be seen as making inferences towards the old "you're with us or you're against us" mentality. Perhaps people find solace in Pearl Jam's art in ways that transcend political views. You can care deeply about people/things despite not seeing eye to eye on things political. There's a lot more to life than that! I know you know this so please don't read this as uppity or preachy but this line of discussion has come up before and it kind of comes across as exclusionary. Beyond the band preaching any type of hatred (which they obviously don't) I don't see why people of all backgrounds, opinions, etc., can't find something from them. I think it is pretty awesome that people enjoy the band despite having differing opinions and coming from different walks of life.
What do you think the band members would say if asked whether they think it's cool to question fandom based purely on political views? Beyond basic human rights stuff, politics are but a small picture of what someone is and I think they know this (but who knows, maybe I'm wrong).
I'm not saying that people who are highly conservative should not be Pearl Jam fans. I never said that. I just find it odd. It's not like the band's liberal/progressive attributes are like their clothes of hair cuts which have changed numerous times during their career. Those progressive elements have been an integral part of they band all along. So yeah, it is perplexing... to me at least. But do I think conservatives should not be allowed to be fans? Of course they can.
C'mon Brian...you know I'm one of these conservative fans. It is not odd at all. I always say...I like left wing music and right wing literature. I may not agree with Pearl Jam on many political issues but I absolutely love their passion. Music should be about love, introspection, idealism and expression of thought...any thought... and it only works when the artist is honest with who he or she is. Pearl Jam does this better then anyone and as a real conservative I will defend their or any progressives artist ability to speak even when it offends. Take Bushleaguer for example...it is the complete opposite from my thoughts on Bush but I actually think it is fantastic both as a "protest" song and as a straight-up art piece when the Bush mask is worn. This shouldn't be "perplexing" to you. Conservatives don't need "safe spaces" or "trigger warnings". We don't see opposing view points as "hate speech" and can actually respect those view points and even enjoy them when they are delivered intelligently. Don't be perplexed man.
100%
"Must I keep explaining my decisions to you strangers of the Internet?" - Merch tent 8/19/16
"Imminent lawless action" is a standard currently used that was established by the United States Supreme Court in Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969), for defining the limits of freedom of speech. Brandenburg clarified what constituted a "clear and present danger", the standard established by Schenck v. United States (1919), and overruled Whitney v. California (1927), which had held that speech that merely advocated violence could be made illegal. Under the imminent lawless action test, speech is not protected by the First Amendment if the speaker intends to incite a violation of the law that is both imminent and likely. While the precise meaning of "imminent" may be ambiguous in some cases, the court provided later clarification in Hess v. Indiana (1973). In this case, the court found that Hess's words did not fall outside the limits of protected speech, in part, because his speech "amounted to nothing more than advocacy of illegal action at some indefinite future time,"[1] and therefore did not meet the imminence requirement.
If I were going to a website that has a MAJORITY of members that were Conservatives, then started baiting threads everyday, that I knew were going to create arguments, I would hope to begin to think just maybe I needed to rethink my need for attention.
I've asked the same questions you've asked a couple of times. myyoung, and never really gotten much a fix on it. Odd as it may seem, there are some very conservative people who enjoy the music made by a band that has been outspokenly liberal in their viewpoints. I sometimes wonder if there are very liberal minded folks who still listen to Ted Nugent. Yes, very perplexing.
Is it really perplexing? With all due respect this can be seen as making inferences towards the old "you're with us or you're against us" mentality. Perhaps people find solace in Pearl Jam's art in ways that transcend political views. You can care deeply about people/things despite not seeing eye to eye on things political. There's a lot more to life than that! I know you know this so please don't read this as uppity or preachy but this line of discussion has come up before and it kind of comes across as exclusionary. Beyond the band preaching any type of hatred (which they obviously don't) I don't see why people of all backgrounds, opinions, etc., can't find something from them. I think it is pretty awesome that people enjoy the band despite having differing opinions and coming from different walks of life.
What do you think the band members would say if asked whether they think it's cool to question fandom based purely on political views? Beyond basic human rights stuff, politics are but a small picture of what someone is and I think they know this (but who knows, maybe I'm wrong).
I'm not saying that people who are highly conservative should not be Pearl Jam fans. I never said that. I just find it odd. It's not like the band's liberal/progressive attributes are like their clothes of hair cuts which have changed numerous times during their career. Those progressive elements have been an integral part of they band all along. So yeah, it is perplexing... to me at least. But do I think conservatives should not be allowed to be fans? Of course they can.
As long as they don't yell at shows to "shut up and sing". Conservative fans are fully welcome being PJ fans, as long as they don't expect an openly politically and socially liberal band to be something they're not.
You don't see Vedder telling the other side to get lost like like Nugent has done at his shows.
If I were going to a website that has a MAJORITY of members that were Conservatives, then started baiting threads everyday, that I knew were going to create arguments, I would hope to begin to think just maybe I needed to rethink my need for attention.
I've asked the same questions you've asked a couple of times. myyoung, and never really gotten much a fix on it. Odd as it may seem, there are some very conservative people who enjoy the music made by a band that has been outspokenly liberal in their viewpoints. I sometimes wonder if there are very liberal minded folks who still listen to Ted Nugent. Yes, very perplexing.
Is it really perplexing? With all due respect this can be seen as making inferences towards the old "you're with us or you're against us" mentality. Perhaps people find solace in Pearl Jam's art in ways that transcend political views. You can care deeply about people/things despite not seeing eye to eye on things political. There's a lot more to life than that! I know you know this so please don't read this as uppity or preachy but this line of discussion has come up before and it kind of comes across as exclusionary. Beyond the band preaching any type of hatred (which they obviously don't) I don't see why people of all backgrounds, opinions, etc., can't find something from them. I think it is pretty awesome that people enjoy the band despite having differing opinions and coming from different walks of life.
What do you think the band members would say if asked whether they think it's cool to question fandom based purely on political views? Beyond basic human rights stuff, politics are but a small picture of what someone is and I think they know this (but who knows, maybe I'm wrong).
I'm not saying that people who are highly conservative should not be Pearl Jam fans. I never said that. I just find it odd. It's not like the band's liberal/progressive attributes are like their clothes of hair cuts which have changed numerous times during their career. Those progressive elements have been an integral part of they band all along. So yeah, it is perplexing... to me at least. But do I think conservatives should not be allowed to be fans? Of course they can.
As long as they don't yell at shows to "shut up and sing". Conservative fans are fully welcome being PJ fans, as long as they don't expect an openly politically and socially liberal band to be something they're not.
You don't see Vedder telling the other side to get lost like like Nugent has done at his shows.
It's official. Pearl Jam fans are nuts. Myself included.
The truest thing I heard last night at the Rally was from a tax paying citizen of the USA who said , "TRUMP should have called this Chicago rally a "JOB FAIR'…then none of these LOSERS would have shown up". The Worst quote I heard last night was from a UIC student w/ a megaphone with purple hair and more piercings and zits on her face then years living... " If you see someone walking around with a AMERICAN FLAG, take it from them and stomp it the ground with your feet".
The truest thing I heard last night at the Rally was from a tax paying citizen of the USA who said , "TRUMP should have called this Chicago rally a "JOB FAIR'…then none of these LOSERS would have shown up". The Worst quote I heard last night was from a UIC student w/ a megaphone with purple hair and more piercings and zits on her face then years living... " If you see someone walking around with a AMERICAN FLAG, take it from them and stomp it the ground with your feet".
Easy big fella Nevermind, you're correct in what you say.
The truest thing I heard last night at the Rally was from a tax paying citizen of the USA who said , "TRUMP should have called this Chicago rally a "JOB FAIR'…then none of these LOSERS would have shown up". The Worst quote I heard last night was from a UIC student w/ a megaphone with purple hair and more piercings and zits on her face then years living... " If you see someone walking around with a AMERICAN FLAG, take it from them and stomp it the ground with your feet".
Easy big fella Nevermind, you're correct in what you say.
I wish I could take credit for the first quote cause I was cracking everyone up sharing it with my Faithful last night.
The truest thing I heard last night at the Rally was from a tax paying citizen of the USA who said , "TRUMP should have called this Chicago rally a "JOB FAIR'…then none of these LOSERS would have shown up". The Worst quote I heard last night was from a UIC student w/ a megaphone with purple hair and more piercings and zits on her face then years living... " If you see someone walking around with a AMERICAN FLAG, take it from them and stomp it the ground with your feet".
Easy big fella Nevermind, you're correct in what you say.
I wish I could take credit for the first quote cause I was cracking everyone up sharing it with my Faithful last night.
Job Fair!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
FUCKING FANTASTIC!!
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
If I were going to a website that has a MAJORITY of members that were Conservatives, then started baiting threads everyday, that I knew were going to create arguments, I would hope to begin to think just maybe I needed to rethink my need for attention.
I've asked the same questions you've asked a couple of times. myyoung, and never really gotten much a fix on it. Odd as it may seem, there are some very conservative people who enjoy the music made by a band that has been outspokenly liberal in their viewpoints. I sometimes wonder if there are very liberal minded folks who still listen to Ted Nugent. Yes, very perplexing.
Is it really perplexing? With all due respect this can be seen as making inferences towards the old "you're with us or you're against us" mentality. Perhaps people find solace in Pearl Jam's art in ways that transcend political views. You can care deeply about people/things despite not seeing eye to eye on things political. There's a lot more to life than that! I know you know this so please don't read this as uppity or preachy but this line of discussion has come up before and it kind of comes across as exclusionary. Beyond the band preaching any type of hatred (which they obviously don't) I don't see why people of all backgrounds, opinions, etc., can't find something from them. I think it is pretty awesome that people enjoy the band despite having differing opinions and coming from different walks of life.
What do you think the band members would say if asked whether they think it's cool to question fandom based purely on political views? Beyond basic human rights stuff, politics are but a small picture of what someone is and I think they know this (but who knows, maybe I'm wrong).
I'm not saying that people who are highly conservative should not be Pearl Jam fans. I never said that. I just find it odd. It's not like the band's liberal/progressive attributes are like their clothes of hair cuts which have changed numerous times during their career. Those progressive elements have been an integral part of they band all along. So yeah, it is perplexing... to me at least. But do I think conservatives should not be allowed to be fans? Of course they can.
C'mon Brian...you know I'm one of these conservative fans. It is not odd at all. I always say...I like left wing music and right wing literature. I may not agree with Pearl Jam on many political issues but I absolutely love their passion. Music should be about love, introspection, idealism and expression of thought...any thought... and it only works when the artist is honest with who he or she is. Pearl Jam does this better then anyone and as a real conservative I will defend their or any progressives artist ability to speak even when it offends. Take Bushleaguer for example...it is the complete opposite from my thoughts on Bush but I actually think it is fantastic both as a "protest" song and as a straight-up art piece when the Bush mask is worn. This shouldn't be "perplexing" to you. Conservatives don't need "safe spaces" or "trigger warnings". We don't see opposing view points as "hate speech" and can actually respect those view points and even enjoy them when they are delivered intelligently. Don't be perplexed man.
100%
I'm glad you guys enjoy the music. I still think it's a bit strange that you come here to discuss politics. It's your perfect right, of course. But personally, I would not choose a band site that is so very much contrary to my beliefs on which to discuss politics. I might discuss the music or the weather or my cat or dog, but I would not have the slightest inclination to waste my time discussing politics. I don't see what you get out of it.
Just curious- besides A Moving Train, about what percentage of your time here do you guiys post on the various other forums sections- the Porch, Other Music, All Encompassing Trip, etc. Surely you must spend a majority of your posting time on PJ related forum sections since that's what it's about for you, correct?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
The truest thing I heard last night at the Rally was from a tax paying citizen of the USA who said , "TRUMP should have called this Chicago rally a "JOB FAIR'…then none of these LOSERS would have shown up". The Worst quote I heard last night was from a UIC student w/ a megaphone with purple hair and more piercings and zits on her face then years living... " If you see someone walking around with a AMERICAN FLAG, take it from them and stomp it the ground with your feet".
If I were going to a website that has a MAJORITY of members that were Conservatives, then started baiting threads everyday, that I knew were going to create arguments, I would hope to begin to think just maybe I needed to rethink my need for attention.
I've asked the same questions you've asked a couple of times. myyoung, and never really gotten much a fix on it. Odd as it may seem, there are some very conservative people who enjoy the music made by a band that has been outspokenly liberal in their viewpoints. I sometimes wonder if there are very liberal minded folks who still listen to Ted Nugent. Yes, very perplexing.
Is it really perplexing? With all due respect this can be seen as making inferences towards the old "you're with us or you're against us" mentality. Perhaps people find solace in Pearl Jam's art in ways that transcend political views. You can care deeply about people/things despite not seeing eye to eye on things political. There's a lot more to life than that! I know you know this so please don't read this as uppity or preachy but this line of discussion has come up before and it kind of comes across as exclusionary. Beyond the band preaching any type of hatred (which they obviously don't) I don't see why people of all backgrounds, opinions, etc., can't find something from them. I think it is pretty awesome that people enjoy the band despite having differing opinions and coming from different walks of life.
What do you think the band members would say if asked whether they think it's cool to question fandom based purely on political views? Beyond basic human rights stuff, politics are but a small picture of what someone is and I think they know this (but who knows, maybe I'm wrong).
I'm not saying that people who are highly conservative should not be Pearl Jam fans. I never said that. I just find it odd. It's not like the band's liberal/progressive attributes are like their clothes of hair cuts which have changed numerous times during their career. Those progressive elements have been an integral part of they band all along. So yeah, it is perplexing... to me at least. But do I think conservatives should not be allowed to be fans? Of course they can.
C'mon Brian...you know I'm one of these conservative fans. It is not odd at all. I always say...I like left wing music and right wing literature. I may not agree with Pearl Jam on many political issues but I absolutely love their passion. Music should be about love, introspection, idealism and expression of thought...any thought... and it only works when the artist is honest with who he or she is. Pearl Jam does this better then anyone and as a real conservative I will defend their or any progressives artist ability to speak even when it offends. Take Bushleaguer for example...it is the complete opposite from my thoughts on Bush but I actually think it is fantastic both as a "protest" song and as a straight-up art piece when the Bush mask is worn. This shouldn't be "perplexing" to you. Conservatives don't need "safe spaces" or "trigger warnings". We don't see opposing view points as "hate speech" and can actually respect those view points and even enjoy them when they are delivered intelligently. Don't be perplexed man.
100%
I'm glad you guys enjoy the music. I still think it's a bit strange that you come here to discuss politics. It's your perfect right, of course. But personally, I would not choose a band site that is so very much contrary to my beliefs on which to discuss politics. I might discuss the music or the weather or my cat or dog, but I would not have the slightest inclination to waste my time discussing politics. I don't see what you get out of it.
Just curious- besides A Moving Train, about what percentage of your time here do you guiys post on the various other forums sections- the Porch, Other Music, All Encompassing Trip, etc. Surely you must spend a majority of your posting time on PJ related forum sections since that's what it's about for you, correct?
When did you get kicked off the porch for posting so much there blux?
Comments
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
https://berniesanders.com/press-release/sanders-statement-donald-trump/
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
He makes some good points.
However when he says "this is what happens when people go around saying whatever they want".
I think you should be able to say whatever you want all the time and if others don't like it then they have a choice of removing themselves from the rhetoric atmosphere all together. It is healthy to speak your mind. If it lands you in trouble well that's the way the cookie crumbles.
But if you speak it, it will land you in hot water.
Trump is actually inciting hate/violence at this point... Isn't that illegal?
But who will make the charge?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/07/no-theres-no-hate-speech-exception-to-the-first-amendment/
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/03/05/in-free-speech-a-line-between-offputting-and-illegal/inciting-violence-is-not-protected-speech
'13: 10/27 Baltimore
'15: 9/26 New York City
'16: 4/16 Greenville (VS!), 4/26 Lexington, 4/28 Philly, 8/20 Wrigley
'18: 9/02 Fenway
'22: 9/16 Nashville
’24: 8/26 Noblesville, 9/12 Baltimore
I sit here watching this on tv and it now makes me sad..
Call it what it is... American Fascism
Pearl Jam fans are nuts.
Myself included.
The Worst quote I heard last night was from a UIC student w/ a megaphone with purple hair and more piercings and zits on her face then years living... " If you see someone walking around with a AMERICAN FLAG, take it from them and stomp it the ground with your feet".
Nevermind, you're correct in what you say.
another fact - in all actuality chicago fucking sucks
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
FUCKING FANTASTIC!!
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Just curious- besides A Moving Train, about what percentage of your time here do you guiys post on the various other forums sections- the Porch, Other Music, All Encompassing Trip, etc. Surely you must spend a majority of your posting time on PJ related forum sections since that's what it's about for you, correct?