If I were going to a website that has a MAJORITY of members that were Conservatives, then started baiting threads everyday, that I knew were going to create arguments, I would hope to begin to think just maybe I needed to rethink my need for attention.
I've asked the same questions you've asked a couple of times. myyoung, and never really gotten much a fix on it. Odd as it may seem, there are some very conservative people who enjoy the music made by a band that has been outspokenly liberal in their viewpoints. I sometimes wonder if there are very liberal minded folks who still listen to Ted Nugent. Yes, very perplexing.
Is it really perplexing? With all due respect this can be seen as making inferences towards the old "you're with us or you're against us" mentality. Perhaps people find solace in Pearl Jam's art in ways that transcend political views. You can care deeply about people/things despite not seeing eye to eye on things political. There's a lot more to life than that! I know you know this so please don't read this as uppity or preachy but this line of discussion has come up before and it kind of comes across as exclusionary. Beyond the band preaching any type of hatred (which they obviously don't) I don't see why people of all backgrounds, opinions, etc., can't find something from them. I think it is pretty awesome that people enjoy the band despite having differing opinions and coming from different walks of life.
What do you think the band members would say if asked whether they think it's cool to question fandom based purely on political views? Beyond basic human rights stuff, politics are but a small picture of what someone is and I think they know this (but who knows, maybe I'm wrong).
I'm not saying that people who are highly conservative should not be Pearl Jam fans. I never said that. I just find it odd. It's not like the band's liberal/progressive attributes are like their clothes of hair cuts which have changed numerous times during their career. Those progressive elements have been an integral part of they band all along. So yeah, it is perplexing... to me at least. But do I think conservatives should not be allowed to be fans? Of course they can.
I get where you're coming from Brian. I do find it somewhat strange. Not strange that people who disagree with their politics can still enjoy their music- that's completely understandable. But if you are on this forum, Pearl Jam must be your favorite band, or at least in your top 3. Of course I Iisten to and enjoy bands who I don't agree with politically but if PJ constantly mocked Obama and wrote songs stating he was an asshole I really don't think I would call them my favorite band and definitely wouldn't pay money to be part of their fan club. Music and politics have always been closely intertwined. I mean, how can anyone truly appreciate someone like Bob Dylan if you promote war and violence.
When I first found out that Ann Coulter listed The Grateful Dead as one of her favorite bands I had to do a double take. Ann Coulter represents everything The Grateful Dead were against. Maybe she just likes their jams but somehow I can't picture Ann Coulter at a Dead show.
I find it funny the crowds in that shit box called Chicago organize a massive protest against someone who will probably help give them more job opportunities than any president in the last quarter century, but seem to have zero interest in organizing massive protests in opposition to the fuckers that slaughter their fellow ctizens on a daily basis. What a bunch of dumbasses.
The citizens of Chicago who have watched their city turn in to the joke of America? Who have watched crime and murder hit an all time high? Who have watched their Public School System turn into a absolute joke? Who have watched a bunch of corrupt politicians run that city to the ground? Yet keep on electing the Democrats, for the last 80 years?
Those citizens?
You forgot the overly corrupt and inefficient police force.
If I were going to a website that has a MAJORITY of members that were Conservatives, then started baiting threads everyday, that I knew were going to create arguments, I would hope to begin to think just maybe I needed to rethink my need for attention.
I've asked the same questions you've asked a couple of times. myyoung, and never really gotten much a fix on it. Odd as it may seem, there are some very conservative people who enjoy the music made by a band that has been outspokenly liberal in their viewpoints. I sometimes wonder if there are very liberal minded folks who still listen to Ted Nugent. Yes, very perplexing.
Is it really perplexing? With all due respect this can be seen as making inferences towards the old "you're with us or you're against us" mentality. Perhaps people find solace in Pearl Jam's art in ways that transcend political views. You can care deeply about people/things despite not seeing eye to eye on things political. There's a lot more to life than that! I know you know this so please don't read this as uppity or preachy but this line of discussion has come up before and it kind of comes across as exclusionary. Beyond the band preaching any type of hatred (which they obviously don't) I don't see why people of all backgrounds, opinions, etc., can't find something from them. I think it is pretty awesome that people enjoy the band despite having differing opinions and coming from different walks of life.
What do you think the band members would say if asked whether they think it's cool to question fandom based purely on political views? Beyond basic human rights stuff, politics are but a small picture of what someone is and I think they know this (but who knows, maybe I'm wrong).
I'm not saying that people who are highly conservative should not be Pearl Jam fans. I never said that. I just find it odd. It's not like the band's liberal/progressive attributes are like their clothes of hair cuts which have changed numerous times during their career. Those progressive elements have been an integral part of they band all along. So yeah, it is perplexing... to me at least. But do I think conservatives should not be allowed to be fans? Of course they can.
I get where you're coming from Brian. I do find it somewhat strange. Not strange that people who disagree with their politics can still enjoy their music- that's completely understandable. But if you are on this forum, Pearl Jam must be your favorite band, or at least in your top 3. Of course I Iisten to and enjoy bands who I don't agree with politically but if PJ constantly mocked Obama and wrote songs stating he was an asshole I really don't think I would call them my favorite band and definitely wouldn't pay money to be part of their fan club. Music and politics have always been closely intertwined. I mean, how can anyone truly appreciate someone like Bob Dylan if you promote war and violence.
When I first found out that Ann Coulter listed The Grateful Dead as one of her favorite bands I had to do a double take. Ann Coulter represents everything The Grateful Dead were against. Maybe she just likes their jams but somehow I can't picture Ann Coulter at a Dead show.
Or how Paul Ryan said his favorite band was Rage, during his VP campaign. That astounded me.
If I were going to a website that has a MAJORITY of members that were Conservatives, then started baiting threads everyday, that I knew were going to create arguments, I would hope to begin to think just maybe I needed to rethink my need for attention.
I've asked the same questions you've asked a couple of times. myyoung, and never really gotten much a fix on it. Odd as it may seem, there are some very conservative people who enjoy the music made by a band that has been outspokenly liberal in their viewpoints. I sometimes wonder if there are very liberal minded folks who still listen to Ted Nugent. Yes, very perplexing.
Is it really perplexing? With all due respect this can be seen as making inferences towards the old "you're with us or you're against us" mentality. Perhaps people find solace in Pearl Jam's art in ways that transcend political views. You can care deeply about people/things despite not seeing eye to eye on things political. There's a lot more to life than that! I know you know this so please don't read this as uppity or preachy but this line of discussion has come up before and it kind of comes across as exclusionary. Beyond the band preaching any type of hatred (which they obviously don't) I don't see why people of all backgrounds, opinions, etc., can't find something from them. I think it is pretty awesome that people enjoy the band despite having differing opinions and coming from different walks of life.
What do you think the band members would say if asked whether they think it's cool to question fandom based purely on political views? Beyond basic human rights stuff, politics are but a small picture of what someone is and I think they know this (but who knows, maybe I'm wrong).
I'm not saying that people who are highly conservative should not be Pearl Jam fans. I never said that. I just find it odd. It's not like the band's liberal/progressive attributes are like their clothes of hair cuts which have changed numerous times during their career. Those progressive elements have been an integral part of they band all along. So yeah, it is perplexing... to me at least. But do I think conservatives should not be allowed to be fans? Of course they can.
I get where you're coming from Brian. I do find it somewhat strange. Not strange that people who disagree with their politics can still enjoy their music- that's completely understandable. But if you are on this forum, Pearl Jam must be your favorite band, or at least in your top 3. Of course I Iisten to and enjoy bands who I don't agree with politically but if PJ constantly mocked Obama and wrote songs stating he was an asshole I really don't think I would call them my favorite band and definitely wouldn't pay money to be part of their fan club. Music and politics have always been closely intertwined. I mean, how can anyone truly appreciate someone like Bob Dylan if you promote war and violence.
When I first found out that Ann Coulter listed The Grateful Dead as one of her favorite bands I had to do a double take. Ann Coulter represents everything The Grateful Dead were against. Maybe she just likes their jams but somehow I can't picture Ann Coulter at a Dead show.
Or how Paul Ryan said his favorite band was Rage, during his VP campaign. That astounded me.
If I were going to a website that has a MAJORITY of members that were Conservatives, then started baiting threads everyday, that I knew were going to create arguments, I would hope to begin to think just maybe I needed to rethink my need for attention.
I've asked the same questions you've asked a couple of times. myyoung, and never really gotten much a fix on it. Odd as it may seem, there are some very conservative people who enjoy the music made by a band that has been outspokenly liberal in their viewpoints. I sometimes wonder if there are very liberal minded folks who still listen to Ted Nugent. Yes, very perplexing.
Is it really perplexing? With all due respect this can be seen as making inferences towards the old "you're with us or you're against us" mentality. Perhaps people find solace in Pearl Jam's art in ways that transcend political views. You can care deeply about people/things despite not seeing eye to eye on things political. There's a lot more to life than that! I know you know this so please don't read this as uppity or preachy but this line of discussion has come up before and it kind of comes across as exclusionary. Beyond the band preaching any type of hatred (which they obviously don't) I don't see why people of all backgrounds, opinions, etc., can't find something from them. I think it is pretty awesome that people enjoy the band despite having differing opinions and coming from different walks of life.
What do you think the band members would say if asked whether they think it's cool to question fandom based purely on political views? Beyond basic human rights stuff, politics are but a small picture of what someone is and I think they know this (but who knows, maybe I'm wrong).
I'm not saying that people who are highly conservative should not be Pearl Jam fans. I never said that. I just find it odd. It's not like the band's liberal/progressive attributes are like their clothes of hair cuts which have changed numerous times during their career. Those progressive elements have been an integral part of they band all along. So yeah, it is perplexing... to me at least. But do I think conservatives should not be allowed to be fans? Of course they can.
As long as they don't yell at shows to "shut up and sing". Conservative fans are fully welcome being PJ fans, as long as they don't expect an openly politically and socially liberal band to be something they're not.
You don't see Vedder telling the other side to get lost like like Nugent has done at his shows.
Not true. Eddie specifically called conservative fans "idiots" at Molson Amphiteater show in Toronto on June 28 2003. I was there. Not exactly "get lost" but I thought it was in poor taste when it came to political discourse.
If I were going to a website that has a MAJORITY of members that were Conservatives, then started baiting threads everyday, that I knew were going to create arguments, I would hope to begin to think just maybe I needed to rethink my need for attention.
I've asked the same questions you've asked a couple of times. myyoung, and never really gotten much a fix on it. Odd as it may seem, there are some very conservative people who enjoy the music made by a band that has been outspokenly liberal in their viewpoints. I sometimes wonder if there are very liberal minded folks who still listen to Ted Nugent. Yes, very perplexing.
Is it really perplexing? With all due respect this can be seen as making inferences towards the old "you're with us or you're against us" mentality. Perhaps people find solace in Pearl Jam's art in ways that transcend political views. You can care deeply about people/things despite not seeing eye to eye on things political. There's a lot more to life than that! I know you know this so please don't read this as uppity or preachy but this line of discussion has come up before and it kind of comes across as exclusionary. Beyond the band preaching any type of hatred (which they obviously don't) I don't see why people of all backgrounds, opinions, etc., can't find something from them. I think it is pretty awesome that people enjoy the band despite having differing opinions and coming from different walks of life.
What do you think the band members would say if asked whether they think it's cool to question fandom based purely on political views? Beyond basic human rights stuff, politics are but a small picture of what someone is and I think they know this (but who knows, maybe I'm wrong).
I'm not saying that people who are highly conservative should not be Pearl Jam fans. I never said that. I just find it odd. It's not like the band's liberal/progressive attributes are like their clothes of hair cuts which have changed numerous times during their career. Those progressive elements have been an integral part of they band all along. So yeah, it is perplexing... to me at least. But do I think conservatives should not be allowed to be fans? Of course they can.
I get where you're coming from Brian. I do find it somewhat strange. Not strange that people who disagree with their politics can still enjoy their music- that's completely understandable. But if you are on this forum, Pearl Jam must be your favorite band, or at least in your top 3. Of course I Iisten to and enjoy bands who I don't agree with politically but if PJ constantly mocked Obama and wrote songs stating he was an asshole I really don't think I would call them my favorite band and definitely wouldn't pay money to be part of their fan club. Music and politics have always been closely intertwined. I mean, how can anyone truly appreciate someone like Bob Dylan if you promote war and violence.
When I first found out that Ann Coulter listed The Grateful Dead as one of her favorite bands I had to do a double take. Ann Coulter represents everything The Grateful Dead were against. Maybe she just likes their jams but somehow I can't picture Ann Coulter at a Dead show.
Or how Paul Ryan said his favorite band was Rage, during his VP campaign. That astounded me.
Why? Plenty of Rep rockers.
Sure but Paul Ryan is a conservative and total establishment. I can't think of one Rage songs that connects with a Paul Ryan budget plan.
If he would have said Zeppelin, Hendrix, even Nirvana, I would not have thought twice. But Rage? Even if true, it's silly.
If I were going to a website that has a MAJORITY of members that were Conservatives, then started baiting threads everyday, that I knew were going to create arguments, I would hope to begin to think just maybe I needed to rethink my need for attention.
I've asked the same questions you've asked a couple of times. myyoung, and never really gotten much a fix on it. Odd as it may seem, there are some very conservative people who enjoy the music made by a band that has been outspokenly liberal in their viewpoints. I sometimes wonder if there are very liberal minded folks who still listen to Ted Nugent. Yes, very perplexing.
Is it really perplexing? With all due respect this can be seen as making inferences towards the old "you're with us or you're against us" mentality. Perhaps people find solace in Pearl Jam's art in ways that transcend political views. You can care deeply about people/things despite not seeing eye to eye on things political. There's a lot more to life than that! I know you know this so please don't read this as uppity or preachy but this line of discussion has come up before and it kind of comes across as exclusionary. Beyond the band preaching any type of hatred (which they obviously don't) I don't see why people of all backgrounds, opinions, etc., can't find something from them. I think it is pretty awesome that people enjoy the band despite having differing opinions and coming from different walks of life.
What do you think the band members would say if asked whether they think it's cool to question fandom based purely on political views? Beyond basic human rights stuff, politics are but a small picture of what someone is and I think they know this (but who knows, maybe I'm wrong).
I'm not saying that people who are highly conservative should not be Pearl Jam fans. I never said that. I just find it odd. It's not like the band's liberal/progressive attributes are like their clothes of hair cuts which have changed numerous times during their career. Those progressive elements have been an integral part of they band all along. So yeah, it is perplexing... to me at least. But do I think conservatives should not be allowed to be fans? Of course they can.
I get where you're coming from Brian. I do find it somewhat strange. Not strange that people who disagree with their politics can still enjoy their music- that's completely understandable. But if you are on this forum, Pearl Jam must be your favorite band, or at least in your top 3. Of course I Iisten to and enjoy bands who I don't agree with politically but if PJ constantly mocked Obama and wrote songs stating he was an asshole I really don't think I would call them my favorite band and definitely wouldn't pay money to be part of their fan club. Music and politics have always been closely intertwined. I mean, how can anyone truly appreciate someone like Bob Dylan if you promote war and violence.
When I first found out that Ann Coulter listed The Grateful Dead as one of her favorite bands I had to do a double take. Ann Coulter represents everything The Grateful Dead were against. Maybe she just likes their jams but somehow I can't picture Ann Coulter at a Dead show.
Or how Paul Ryan said his favorite band was Rage, during his VP campaign. That astounded me.
Why? Plenty of Rep rockers.
Sure but Paul Ryan is a conservative and total establishment. I can't think of one Rage songs that connects with a Paul Ryan budget plan.
If he would have said Zeppelin, Hendrix, even Nirvana, I would not have thought twice. But Rage? Even if true, it's silly.
Again, some people aren't scared of others' ideas. Some people don't have a fragile shell that will collapse if they aren't surrounded by only things that are comfortable and agreeable to them.
I'm late to this party, but people on AMT know that I can't really shut the fuck up, so here's my take..
When I first what was happening, the visceral side of me said "fuck yeah", but soon after the brain took over. I think it was a mistake, a strategic mistake to shut down the rally. It creates a situation where it creates a moral equivalency between Trump supporters and the Democratic side. Both sides are now resorting mob action in the rallies. Democrats lose the moral high ground. It's the same strategic mistake Rubio made when he decided to lower himself to Trumps level on the stage.
A huge, peaceful rally outside the venue would have been more effective, coupled with a few protesters inside. Those protesters would be bound to get harassed, pushed around, sucker punched, etc. That again allows them to be on the moral high ground. sort of like that young man that was punched by the old fuck in NC.
Now you have a situation where Trump has the opportunity to try to be 'peace maker' as much BS as it is.
If I were going to a website that has a MAJORITY of members that were Conservatives, then started baiting threads everyday, that I knew were going to create arguments, I would hope to begin to think just maybe I needed to rethink my need for attention.
I've asked the same questions you've asked a couple of times. myyoung, and never really gotten much a fix on it. Odd as it may seem, there are some very conservative people who enjoy the music made by a band that has been outspokenly liberal in their viewpoints. I sometimes wonder if there are very liberal minded folks who still listen to Ted Nugent. Yes, very perplexing.
Is it really perplexing? With all due respect this can be seen as making inferences towards the old "you're with us or you're against us" mentality. Perhaps people find solace in Pearl Jam's art in ways that transcend political views. You can care deeply about people/things despite not seeing eye to eye on things political. There's a lot more to life than that! I know you know this so please don't read this as uppity or preachy but this line of discussion has come up before and it kind of comes across as exclusionary. Beyond the band preaching any type of hatred (which they obviously don't) I don't see why people of all backgrounds, opinions, etc., can't find something from them. I think it is pretty awesome that people enjoy the band despite having differing opinions and coming from different walks of life.
What do you think the band members would say if asked whether they think it's cool to question fandom based purely on political views? Beyond basic human rights stuff, politics are but a small picture of what someone is and I think they know this (but who knows, maybe I'm wrong).
I'm not saying that people who are highly conservative should not be Pearl Jam fans. I never said that. I just find it odd. It's not like the band's liberal/progressive attributes are like their clothes of hair cuts which have changed numerous times during their career. Those progressive elements have been an integral part of they band all along. So yeah, it is perplexing... to me at least. But do I think conservatives should not be allowed to be fans? Of course they can.
C'mon Brian...you know I'm one of these conservative fans. It is not odd at all. I always say...I like left wing music and right wing literature. I may not agree with Pearl Jam on many political issues but I absolutely love their passion. Music should be about love, introspection, idealism and expression of thought...any thought... and it only works when the artist is honest with who he or she is. Pearl Jam does this better then anyone and as a real conservative I will defend their or any progressives artist ability to speak even when it offends. Take Bushleaguer for example...it is the complete opposite from my thoughts on Bush but I actually think it is fantastic both as a "protest" song and as a straight-up art piece when the Bush mask is worn. This shouldn't be "perplexing" to you. Conservatives don't need "safe spaces" or "trigger warnings". We don't see opposing view points as "hate speech" and can actually respect those view points and even enjoy them when they are delivered intelligently. Don't be perplexed man.
100%
I'm glad you guys enjoy the music. I still think it's a bit strange that you come here to discuss politics. It's your perfect right, of course. But personally, I would not choose a band site that is so very much contrary to my beliefs on which to discuss politics. I might discuss the music or the weather or my cat or dog, but I would not have the slightest inclination to waste my time discussing politics. I don't see what you get out of it.
Just curious- besides A Moving Train, about what percentage of your time here do you guiys post on the various other forums sections- the Porch, Other Music, All Encompassing Trip, etc. Surely you must spend a majority of your posting time on PJ related forum sections since that's what it's about for you, correct?
Personally I post/comment on all the pages but I specifically post in here because it is important to enter this bubble of groupthink and show that alternative thought exists within the fanbase. For many years I ignored the AMT but eventually I got tired of every conservative being labelled as a rascist, dumb, christian, hateful, backwards biggot. If you spend a few minutes reading through these pages you will see it everywhere. This is a page that is all for tolerance except when it comes to conservative thought. What i get out of countering this argument is the hope that when some of you actually start to interact with a conservative you might actually realize that we are not the characiture you make us out too be. When you see we are good people with similar interests...music, love of this band etc maybe, just maybe some will open their minds and backoff on some of the hateful rhetoric.
I'm late to this party, but people on AMT know that I can't really shut the fuck up, so here's my take..
When I first what was happening, the visceral side of me said "fuck yeah", but soon after the brain took over. I think it was a mistake, a strategic mistake to shut down the rally. It creates a situation where it creates a moral equivalency between Trump supporters and the Democratic side. Both sides are now resorting mob action in the rallies. Democrats lose the moral high ground. It's the same strategic mistake Rubio made when he decided to lower himself to Trumps level on the stage.
A huge, peaceful rally outside the venue would have been more effective, coupled with a few protesters inside. Those protesters would be bound to get harassed, pushed around, sucker punched, etc. That again allows them to be on the moral high ground. sort of like that young man that was punched by the old fuck in NC.
Now you have a situation where Trump has the opportunity to try to be 'peace maker' as much BS as it is.
I tend to agree. The first reports I heard were that Trump supporters were "rioting" in Chicago due to the rally being cancelled. That turned about to be a mischaracterization at best and a deliberate falsehood at worst. By the end of the night my takeaway was that protestors did behave badly and did shutdown the free speech of someone whose opinion they don't like.
Trump's rhetoric is shameful, but it should be countered with a better message. That's how free speech should work.
If I were going to a website that has a MAJORITY of members that were Conservatives, then started baiting threads everyday, that I knew were going to create arguments, I would hope to begin to think just maybe I needed to rethink my need for attention.
I've asked the same questions you've asked a couple of times. myyoung, and never really gotten much a fix on it. Odd as it may seem, there are some very conservative people who enjoy the music made by a band that has been outspokenly liberal in their viewpoints. I sometimes wonder if there are very liberal minded folks who still listen to Ted Nugent. Yes, very perplexing.
Is it really perplexing? With all due respect this can be seen as making inferences towards the old "you're with us or you're against us" mentality. Perhaps people find solace in Pearl Jam's art in ways that transcend political views. You can care deeply about people/things despite not seeing eye to eye on things political. There's a lot more to life than that! I know you know this so please don't read this as uppity or preachy but this line of discussion has come up before and it kind of comes across as exclusionary. Beyond the band preaching any type of hatred (which they obviously don't) I don't see why people of all backgrounds, opinions, etc., can't find something from them. I think it is pretty awesome that people enjoy the band despite having differing opinions and coming from different walks of life.
What do you think the band members would say if asked whether they think it's cool to question fandom based purely on political views? Beyond basic human rights stuff, politics are but a small picture of what someone is and I think they know this (but who knows, maybe I'm wrong).
I'm not saying that people who are highly conservative should not be Pearl Jam fans. I never said that. I just find it odd. It's not like the band's liberal/progressive attributes are like their clothes of hair cuts which have changed numerous times during their career. Those progressive elements have been an integral part of they band all along. So yeah, it is perplexing... to me at least. But do I think conservatives should not be allowed to be fans? Of course they can.
I get where you're coming from Brian. I do find it somewhat strange. Not strange that people who disagree with their politics can still enjoy their music- that's completely understandable. But if you are on this forum, Pearl Jam must be your favorite band, or at least in your top 3. Of course I Iisten to and enjoy bands who I don't agree with politically but if PJ constantly mocked Obama and wrote songs stating he was an asshole I really don't think I would call them my favorite band and definitely wouldn't pay money to be part of their fan club. Music and politics have always been closely intertwined. I mean, how can anyone truly appreciate someone like Bob Dylan if you promote war and violence.
When I first found out that Ann Coulter listed The Grateful Dead as one of her favorite bands I had to do a double take. Ann Coulter represents everything The Grateful Dead were against. Maybe she just likes their jams but somehow I can't picture Ann Coulter at a Dead show.
Or how Paul Ryan said his favorite band was Rage, during his VP campaign. That astounded me.
I love Rage and have seen them multuple times. Again...true conservatives think freedom of speech is the ultimate right even when we disagree with it. Rage is the farthest from me politically but its message is delivered so intelligently with great passion. This is what I want in my music.
If I were going to a website that has a MAJORITY of members that were Conservatives, then started baiting threads everyday, that I knew were going to create arguments, I would hope to begin to think just maybe I needed to rethink my need for attention.
I've asked the same questions you've asked a couple of times. myyoung, and never really gotten much a fix on it. Odd as it may seem, there are some very conservative people who enjoy the music made by a band that has been outspokenly liberal in their viewpoints. I sometimes wonder if there are very liberal minded folks who still listen to Ted Nugent. Yes, very perplexing.
Is it really perplexing? With all due respect this can be seen as making inferences towards the old "you're with us or you're against us" mentality. Perhaps people find solace in Pearl Jam's art in ways that transcend political views. You can care deeply about people/things despite not seeing eye to eye on things political. There's a lot more to life than that! I know you know this so please don't read this as uppity or preachy but this line of discussion has come up before and it kind of comes across as exclusionary. Beyond the band preaching any type of hatred (which they obviously don't) I don't see why people of all backgrounds, opinions, etc., can't find something from them. I think it is pretty awesome that people enjoy the band despite having differing opinions and coming from different walks of life.
What do you think the band members would say if asked whether they think it's cool to question fandom based purely on political views? Beyond basic human rights stuff, politics are but a small picture of what someone is and I think they know this (but who knows, maybe I'm wrong).
I'm not saying that people who are highly conservative should not be Pearl Jam fans. I never said that. I just find it odd. It's not like the band's liberal/progressive attributes are like their clothes of hair cuts which have changed numerous times during their career. Those progressive elements have been an integral part of they band all along. So yeah, it is perplexing... to me at least. But do I think conservatives should not be allowed to be fans? Of course they can.
C'mon Brian...you know I'm one of these conservative fans. It is not odd at all. I always say...I like left wing music and right wing literature. I may not agree with Pearl Jam on many political issues but I absolutely love their passion. Music should be about love, introspection, idealism and expression of thought...any thought... and it only works when the artist is honest with who he or she is. Pearl Jam does this better then anyone and as a real conservative I will defend their or any progressives artist ability to speak even when it offends. Take Bushleaguer for example...it is the complete opposite from my thoughts on Bush but I actually think it is fantastic both as a "protest" song and as a straight-up art piece when the Bush mask is worn. This shouldn't be "perplexing" to you. Conservatives don't need "safe spaces" or "trigger warnings". We don't see opposing view points as "hate speech" and can actually respect those view points and even enjoy them when they are delivered intelligently. Don't be perplexed man.
100%
I'm glad you guys enjoy the music. I still think it's a bit strange that you come here to discuss politics. It's your perfect right, of course. But personally, I would not choose a band site that is so very much contrary to my beliefs on which to discuss politics. I might discuss the music or the weather or my cat or dog, but I would not have the slightest inclination to waste my time discussing politics. I don't see what you get out of it.
Just curious- besides A Moving Train, about what percentage of your time here do you guiys post on the various other forums sections- the Porch, Other Music, All Encompassing Trip, etc. Surely you must spend a majority of your posting time on PJ related forum sections since that's what it's about for you, correct?
Personally I post/comment on all the pages but I specifically post in here because it is important to enter this bubble of groupthink and show that alternative thought exists within the fanbase. For many years I ignored the AMT but eventually I got tired of every conservative being labelled as a rascist, dumb, christian, hateful, backwards biggot. If you spend a few minutes reading through these pages you will see it everywhere. This is a page that is all for tolerance except when it comes to conservative thought. What i get out of countering this argument is the hope that when some of you actually start to interact with a conservative you might actually realize that we are not the characiture you make us out too be. When you see we are good people with similar interests...music, love of this band etc maybe, just maybe some will open their minds and backoff on some of the hateful rhetoric.
I like a good, thoughtful conservative posting here. Otherwise it's just a bunch of people preaching to the choir. How fun is that? In fact, on some of the pages I specifically take the opposite opinion of what I really believe to challenge people's thought processes. You probably think I'm a raging liberal. JC and Free probably think I'm an asshole conservative considering some of our arguments. But it's all good. It's better than reading some of the comments sections on the National Review (psychopaths) or on some articles on HuffPo (almost, but not quite as psychopathic). Those make me sad...
Can someone please post a photo of the woman making the Nazi salute for our resident Trump fans? I can't technology.
You could put up Picts of these fools in full nazi uniforms and his fans wouldn't care he can do or say anything and his supporters will vote for him even his supporters here wouldn't show outrage at something like that !!
Very true, but it matters to me that their utter lack of shame be publicly documented. If Trump wins or loses we should remember who was on his side as a society and remember that they openly embraced (or conveniently looked away from) the rise of American facism.
If I were going to a website that has a MAJORITY of members that were Conservatives, then started baiting threads everyday, that I knew were going to create arguments, I would hope to begin to think just maybe I needed to rethink my need for attention.
I've asked the same questions you've asked a couple of times. myyoung, and never really gotten much a fix on it. Odd as it may seem, there are some very conservative people who enjoy the music made by a band that has been outspokenly liberal in their viewpoints. I sometimes wonder if there are very liberal minded folks who still listen to Ted Nugent. Yes, very perplexing.
Is it really perplexing? With all due respect this can be seen as making inferences towards the old "you're with us or you're against us" mentality. Perhaps people find solace in Pearl Jam's art in ways that transcend political views. You can care deeply about people/things despite not seeing eye to eye on things political. There's a lot more to life than that! I know you know this so please don't read this as uppity or preachy but this line of discussion has come up before and it kind of comes across as exclusionary. Beyond the band preaching any type of hatred (which they obviously don't) I don't see why people of all backgrounds, opinions, etc., can't find something from them. I think it is pretty awesome that people enjoy the band despite having differing opinions and coming from different walks of life.
What do you think the band members would say if asked whether they think it's cool to question fandom based purely on political views? Beyond basic human rights stuff, politics are but a small picture of what someone is and I think they know this (but who knows, maybe I'm wrong).
I'm not saying that people who are highly conservative should not be Pearl Jam fans. I never said that. I just find it odd. It's not like the band's liberal/progressive attributes are like their clothes of hair cuts which have changed numerous times during their career. Those progressive elements have been an integral part of they band all along. So yeah, it is perplexing... to me at least. But do I think conservatives should not be allowed to be fans? Of course they can.
I get where you're coming from Brian. I do find it somewhat strange. Not strange that people who disagree with their politics can still enjoy their music- that's completely understandable. But if you are on this forum, Pearl Jam must be your favorite band, or at least in your top 3. Of course I Iisten to and enjoy bands who I don't agree with politically but if PJ constantly mocked Obama and wrote songs stating he was an asshole I really don't think I would call them my favorite band and definitely wouldn't pay money to be part of their fan club. Music and politics have always been closely intertwined. I mean, how can anyone truly appreciate someone like Bob Dylan if you promote war and violence.
When I first found out that Ann Coulter listed The Grateful Dead as one of her favorite bands I had to do a double take. Ann Coulter represents everything The Grateful Dead were against. Maybe she just likes their jams but somehow I can't picture Ann Coulter at a Dead show.
Or how Paul Ryan said his favorite band was Rage, during his VP campaign. That astounded me.
Why? Plenty of Rep rockers.
Sure but Paul Ryan is a conservative and total establishment. I can't think of one Rage songs that connects with a Paul Ryan budget plan.
If he would have said Zeppelin, Hendrix, even Nirvana, I would not have thought twice. But Rage? Even if true, it's silly.
Again, some people aren't scared of others' ideas. Some people don't have a fragile shell that will collapse if they aren't surrounded by only things that are comfortable and agreeable to them.
I guess, but I can't listen to Toby Keith singing pro Iraq war songs and not want to puke. Seems strange that he could listen to Know Your Enemy without disagreeing with every verse. He's the enemy in the song.
If I were going to a website that has a MAJORITY of members that were Conservatives, then started baiting threads everyday, that I knew were going to create arguments, I would hope to begin to think just maybe I needed to rethink my need for attention.
I've asked the same questions you've asked a couple of times. myyoung, and never really gotten much a fix on it. Odd as it may seem, there are some very conservative people who enjoy the music made by a band that has been outspokenly liberal in their viewpoints. I sometimes wonder if there are very liberal minded folks who still listen to Ted Nugent. Yes, very perplexing.
Is it really perplexing? With all due respect this can be seen as making inferences towards the old "you're with us or you're against us" mentality. Perhaps people find solace in Pearl Jam's art in ways that transcend political views. You can care deeply about people/things despite not seeing eye to eye on things political. There's a lot more to life than that! I know you know this so please don't read this as uppity or preachy but this line of discussion has come up before and it kind of comes across as exclusionary. Beyond the band preaching any type of hatred (which they obviously don't) I don't see why people of all backgrounds, opinions, etc., can't find something from them. I think it is pretty awesome that people enjoy the band despite having differing opinions and coming from different walks of life.
What do you think the band members would say if asked whether they think it's cool to question fandom based purely on political views? Beyond basic human rights stuff, politics are but a small picture of what someone is and I think they know this (but who knows, maybe I'm wrong).
I'm not saying that people who are highly conservative should not be Pearl Jam fans. I never said that. I just find it odd. It's not like the band's liberal/progressive attributes are like their clothes of hair cuts which have changed numerous times during their career. Those progressive elements have been an integral part of they band all along. So yeah, it is perplexing... to me at least. But do I think conservatives should not be allowed to be fans? Of course they can.
I get where you're coming from Brian. I do find it somewhat strange. Not strange that people who disagree with their politics can still enjoy their music- that's completely understandable. But if you are on this forum, Pearl Jam must be your favorite band, or at least in your top 3. Of course I Iisten to and enjoy bands who I don't agree with politically but if PJ constantly mocked Obama and wrote songs stating he was an asshole I really don't think I would call them my favorite band and definitely wouldn't pay money to be part of their fan club. Music and politics have always been closely intertwined. I mean, how can anyone truly appreciate someone like Bob Dylan if you promote war and violence.
When I first found out that Ann Coulter listed The Grateful Dead as one of her favorite bands I had to do a double take. Ann Coulter represents everything The Grateful Dead were against. Maybe she just likes their jams but somehow I can't picture Ann Coulter at a Dead show.
Or how Paul Ryan said his favorite band was Rage, during his VP campaign. That astounded me.
Why? Plenty of Rep rockers.
Sure but Paul Ryan is a conservative and total establishment. I can't think of one Rage songs that connects with a Paul Ryan budget plan.
If he would have said Zeppelin, Hendrix, even Nirvana, I would not have thought twice. But Rage? Even if true, it's silly.
Again, some people aren't scared of others' ideas. Some people don't have a fragile shell that will collapse if they aren't surrounded by only things that are comfortable and agreeable to them.
I guess, but I can't listen to Toby Keith singing pro Iraq war songs and not want to puke. Seems strange that he could listen to Know Your Enemy without disagreeing with every verse. He's the enemy in the song.
I think this illustrates the difference pretty well. Right and left are not equal, there is more hate coming from the right, no matter how badly butthurt conservatives want to claim the opposite. Conservative values include warmongering and disdain for immigrants and those in poverty...there is no disputing that, direct quotes of these values can be found in droves from people who represent large swaths of conservatism. A song raging against the machine is NOT ever going to be equal in hate to a song that glorifies and supports unfounded wars that kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
and yes I'll say it... how the hell does a Fascist NeoCon become a fan of a band that is obviously Liberal in every possible way... Does it make you feel good to sing along to Glorified G?
Conservatives aren't scared of opposing viewpoints like liberals are. They may not agree, but they don't need opposing viewpoints eradicated from their existence like liberals seem to.
Oh contraire, conservatives hate opposing viewpoints cause they aren't then able to justify their selfish fairyland realities. Damn facts and logic. God science climate racism war hate.
Trump tweeting: Bernie Sanders is lying when he says his disruptors aren't told to go to my events. Be careful Bernie, or my supporters will go to yours!
If I were going to a website that has a MAJORITY of members that were Conservatives, then started baiting threads everyday, that I knew were going to create arguments, I would hope to begin to think just maybe I needed to rethink my need for attention.
I've asked the same questions you've asked a couple of times. myyoung, and never really gotten much a fix on it. Odd as it may seem, there are some very conservative people who enjoy the music made by a band that has been outspokenly liberal in their viewpoints. I sometimes wonder if there are very liberal minded folks who still listen to Ted Nugent. Yes, very perplexing.
Is it really perplexing? With all due respect this can be seen as making inferences towards the old "you're with us or you're against us" mentality. Perhaps people find solace in Pearl Jam's art in ways that transcend political views. You can care deeply about people/things despite not seeing eye to eye on things political. There's a lot more to life than that! I know you know this so please don't read this as uppity or preachy but this line of discussion has come up before and it kind of comes across as exclusionary. Beyond the band preaching any type of hatred (which they obviously don't) I don't see why people of all backgrounds, opinions, etc., can't find something from them. I think it is pretty awesome that people enjoy the band despite having differing opinions and coming from different walks of life.
What do you think the band members would say if asked whether they think it's cool to question fandom based purely on political views? Beyond basic human rights stuff, politics are but a small picture of what someone is and I think they know this (but who knows, maybe I'm wrong).
I'm not saying that people who are highly conservative should not be Pearl Jam fans. I never said that. I just find it odd. It's not like the band's liberal/progressive attributes are like their clothes of hair cuts which have changed numerous times during their career. Those progressive elements have been an integral part of they band all along. So yeah, it is perplexing... to me at least. But do I think conservatives should not be allowed to be fans? Of course they can.
C'mon Brian...you know I'm one of these conservative fans. It is not odd at all. I always say...I like left wing music and right wing literature. I may not agree with Pearl Jam on many political issues but I absolutely love their passion. Music should be about love, introspection, idealism and expression of thought...any thought... and it only works when the artist is honest with who he or she is. Pearl Jam does this better then anyone and as a real conservative I will defend their or any progressives artist ability to speak even when it offends. Take Bushleaguer for example...it is the complete opposite from my thoughts on Bush but I actually think it is fantastic both as a "protest" song and as a straight-up art piece when the Bush mask is worn. This shouldn't be "perplexing" to you. Conservatives don't need "safe spaces" or "trigger warnings". We don't see opposing view points as "hate speech" and can actually respect those view points and even enjoy them when they are delivered intelligently. Don't be perplexed man.
100%
I'm glad you guys enjoy the music. I still think it's a bit strange that you come here to discuss politics. It's your perfect right, of course. But personally, I would not choose a band site that is so very much contrary to my beliefs on which to discuss politics. I might discuss the music or the weather or my cat or dog, but I would not have the slightest inclination to waste my time discussing politics. I don't see what you get out of it.
Just curious- besides A Moving Train, about what percentage of your time here do you guiys post on the various other forums sections- the Porch, Other Music, All Encompassing Trip, etc. Surely you must spend a majority of your posting time on PJ related forum sections since that's what it's about for you, correct?
Personally I post/comment on all the pages but I specifically post in here because it is important to enter this bubble of groupthink and show that alternative thought exists within the fanbase. For many years I ignored the AMT but eventually I got tired of every conservative being labelled as a rascist, dumb, christian, hateful, backwards biggot. If you spend a few minutes reading through these pages you will see it everywhere. This is a page that is all for tolerance except when it comes to conservative thought. What i get out of countering this argument is the hope that when some of you actually start to interact with a conservative you might actually realize that we are not the characiture you make us out too be. When you see we are good people with similar interests...music, love of this band etc maybe, just maybe some will open their minds and backoff on some of the hateful rhetoric.
You realize many of us live within the world of conservatives on a daily bases and many of us are the lone liberal in the bunch. No bubble.PLENTY of interaction.
Now look at what the conservatives offer our country as way of politicians and policies!!!! Well speaks for itself.
Trump tweeting: Bernie Sanders is lying when he says his disruptors aren't told to go to my events. Be careful Bernie, or my supporters will go to yours!
If I were going to a website that has a MAJORITY of members that were Conservatives, then started baiting threads everyday, that I knew were going to create arguments, I would hope to begin to think just maybe I needed to rethink my need for attention.
I've asked the same questions you've asked a couple of times. myyoung, and never really gotten much a fix on it. Odd as it may seem, there are some very conservative people who enjoy the music made by a band that has been outspokenly liberal in their viewpoints. I sometimes wonder if there are very liberal minded folks who still listen to Ted Nugent. Yes, very perplexing.
Is it really perplexing? With all due respect this can be seen as making inferences towards the old "you're with us or you're against us" mentality. Perhaps people find solace in Pearl Jam's art in ways that transcend political views. You can care deeply about people/things despite not seeing eye to eye on things political. There's a lot more to life than that! I know you know this so please don't read this as uppity or preachy but this line of discussion has come up before and it kind of comes across as exclusionary. Beyond the band preaching any type of hatred (which they obviously don't) I don't see why people of all backgrounds, opinions, etc., can't find something from them. I think it is pretty awesome that people enjoy the band despite having differing opinions and coming from different walks of life.
What do you think the band members would say if asked whether they think it's cool to question fandom based purely on political views? Beyond basic human rights stuff, politics are but a small picture of what someone is and I think they know this (but who knows, maybe I'm wrong).
I'm not saying that people who are highly conservative should not be Pearl Jam fans. I never said that. I just find it odd. It's not like the band's liberal/progressive attributes are like their clothes of hair cuts which have changed numerous times during their career. Those progressive elements have been an integral part of they band all along. So yeah, it is perplexing... to me at least. But do I think conservatives should not be allowed to be fans? Of course they can.
I get where you're coming from Brian. I do find it somewhat strange. Not strange that people who disagree with their politics can still enjoy their music- that's completely understandable. But if you are on this forum, Pearl Jam must be your favorite band, or at least in your top 3. Of course I Iisten to and enjoy bands who I don't agree with politically but if PJ constantly mocked Obama and wrote songs stating he was an asshole I really don't think I would call them my favorite band and definitely wouldn't pay money to be part of their fan club. Music and politics have always been closely intertwined. I mean, how can anyone truly appreciate someone like Bob Dylan if you promote war and violence.
When I first found out that Ann Coulter listed The Grateful Dead as one of her favorite bands I had to do a double take. Ann Coulter represents everything The Grateful Dead were against. Maybe she just likes their jams but somehow I can't picture Ann Coulter at a Dead show.
Or how Paul Ryan said his favorite band was Rage, during his VP campaign. That astounded me.
Why? Plenty of Rep rockers.
Sure but Paul Ryan is a conservative and total establishment. I can't think of one Rage songs that connects with a Paul Ryan budget plan.
If he would have said Zeppelin, Hendrix, even Nirvana, I would not have thought twice. But Rage? Even if true, it's silly.
Again, some people aren't scared of others' ideas. Some people don't have a fragile shell that will collapse if they aren't surrounded by only things that are comfortable and agreeable to them.
I guess, but I can't listen to Toby Keith singing pro Iraq war songs and not want to puke. Seems strange that he could listen to Know Your Enemy without disagreeing with every verse. He's the enemy in the song.
I think this illustrates the difference pretty well. Right and left are not equal, there is more hate coming from the right, no matter how badly butthurt conservatives want to claim the opposite. Conservative values include warmongering and disdain for immigrants and those in poverty...there is no disputing that, direct quotes of these values can be found in droves from people who represent large swaths of conservatism. A song raging against the machine is NOT ever going to be equal in hate to a song that glorifies and supports unfounded wars that kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
There you go again... throwing around the word "hate" over and over again. You shout "hate" to silence opinion that you don't agree with. It is a political temper tantrum. Nobody is falling for it anymore. This is what the populace is tired of. This is what is leading to a movement that says enough!
Trump and Sanders supporters going to war with each other helps only the Republican and Democratic establishments. Bernie can't have his people getting dragged down into this muck.
Trump and Sanders supporters going to war with each other helps only the Republican and Democratic establishments. Bernie can't have his people getting dragged down into this muck.
You're right, it hurts Bernie. Strategic blunder by his fan base. Not that I'm drawing equivalency between the movements AT ALL, but that was what was so effective about the Civil Rights movement. It showed peace vs. violence. Democrats and left leaning people cannot respond with violence and disruption. They must stick with peaceful protests.
Trump and Sanders supporters going to war with each other helps only the Republican and Democratic establishments. Bernie can't have his people getting dragged down into this muck.
You're right, it hurts Bernie. Strategic blunder by his fan base. Not that I'm drawing equivalency between the movements AT ALL, but that was what was so effective about the Civil Rights movement. It showed peace vs. violence. Democrats and left leaning people cannot respond with violence and disruption. They must stick with peaceful protests.
I disagree. And I don't think it hurts Bernie supporters in particular. The revolution has started, the people aren't going to take tromp as a leader. Silent protest only do so much, and Trump has crossed the line, with his inciting hatred and violence .
If I were going to a website that has a MAJORITY of members that were Conservatives, then started baiting threads everyday, that I knew were going to create arguments, I would hope to begin to think just maybe I needed to rethink my need for attention.
I've asked the same questions you've asked a couple of times. myyoung, and never really gotten much a fix on it. Odd as it may seem, there are some very conservative people who enjoy the music made by a band that has been outspokenly liberal in their viewpoints. I sometimes wonder if there are very liberal minded folks who still listen to Ted Nugent. Yes, very perplexing.
Is it really perplexing? With all due respect this can be seen as making inferences towards the old "you're with us or you're against us" mentality. Perhaps people find solace in Pearl Jam's art in ways that transcend political views. You can care deeply about people/things despite not seeing eye to eye on things political. There's a lot more to life than that! I know you know this so please don't read this as uppity or preachy but this line of discussion has come up before and it kind of comes across as exclusionary. Beyond the band preaching any type of hatred (which they obviously don't) I don't see why people of all backgrounds, opinions, etc., can't find something from them. I think it is pretty awesome that people enjoy the band despite having differing opinions and coming from different walks of life.
What do you think the band members would say if asked whether they think it's cool to question fandom based purely on political views? Beyond basic human rights stuff, politics are but a small picture of what someone is and I think they know this (but who knows, maybe I'm wrong).
I'm not saying that people who are highly conservative should not be Pearl Jam fans. I never said that. I just find it odd. It's not like the band's liberal/progressive attributes are like their clothes of hair cuts which have changed numerous times during their career. Those progressive elements have been an integral part of they band all along. So yeah, it is perplexing... to me at least. But do I think conservatives should not be allowed to be fans? Of course they can.
I get where you're coming from Brian. I do find it somewhat strange. Not strange that people who disagree with their politics can still enjoy their music- that's completely understandable. But if you are on this forum, Pearl Jam must be your favorite band, or at least in your top 3. Of course I Iisten to and enjoy bands who I don't agree with politically but if PJ constantly mocked Obama and wrote songs stating he was an asshole I really don't think I would call them my favorite band and definitely wouldn't pay money to be part of their fan club. Music and politics have always been closely intertwined. I mean, how can anyone truly appreciate someone like Bob Dylan if you promote war and violence.
When I first found out that Ann Coulter listed The Grateful Dead as one of her favorite bands I had to do a double take. Ann Coulter represents everything The Grateful Dead were against. Maybe she just likes their jams but somehow I can't picture Ann Coulter at a Dead show.
Or how Paul Ryan said his favorite band was Rage, during his VP campaign. That astounded me.
Why? Plenty of Rep rockers.
Sure but Paul Ryan is a conservative and total establishment. I can't think of one Rage songs that connects with a Paul Ryan budget plan.
If he would have said Zeppelin, Hendrix, even Nirvana, I would not have thought twice. But Rage? Even if true, it's silly.
Again, some people aren't scared of others' ideas. Some people don't have a fragile shell that will collapse if they aren't surrounded by only things that are comfortable and agreeable to them.
I guess, but I can't listen to Toby Keith singing pro Iraq war songs and not want to puke. Seems strange that he could listen to Know Your Enemy without disagreeing with every verse. He's the enemy in the song.
I think this illustrates the difference pretty well. Right and left are not equal, there is more hate coming from the right, no matter how badly butthurt conservatives want to claim the opposite. Conservative values include warmongering and disdain for immigrants and those in poverty...there is no disputing that, direct quotes of these values can be found in droves from people who represent large swaths of conservatism. A song raging against the machine is NOT ever going to be equal in hate to a song that glorifies and supports unfounded wars that kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
There you go again... throwing around the word "hate" over and over again. You shout "hate" to silence opinion that you don't agree with. It is a political temper tantrum. Nobody is falling for it anymore. This is what the populace is tired of. This is what is leading to a movement that says enough!
I'm not trying to silence anything, I am trying to call it like it is. Are you trying to say that banning Muslims from entering the US, labeling them like Jews in Germany, and the rest of Trump's bullshit is not a form of hatred? Are you trying to say that white phosphorus, depleted uranium shells, and drone missiles don't feel like hate to the people who's children are blown apart? Or are you just trying to make a semantic argument to divert from the truth, conservative values are deliberately hurtful to large groups of people who aren't straight white Americans?
Trump and Sanders supporters going to war with each other helps only the Republican and Democratic establishments. Bernie can't have his people getting dragged down into this muck.
You're right, it hurts Bernie. Strategic blunder by his fan base. Not that I'm drawing equivalency between the movements AT ALL, but that was what was so effective about the Civil Rights movement. It showed peace vs. violence. Democrats and left leaning people cannot respond with violence and disruption. They must stick with peaceful protests.
Absolutely but the problem is that his supporters are populated by the same Social Justice Warriors that aim to shut down speech they don't agree with at college campuses across North America. These kids have grown up thinking this behaviour is ok and that they have a right to "not be offended". Nobody has ever taught them what correct political discourse is.
Comments
When I first found out that Ann Coulter listed The Grateful Dead as one of her favorite bands I had to do a double take. Ann Coulter represents everything The Grateful Dead were against. Maybe she just likes their jams but somehow I can't picture Ann Coulter at a Dead show.
Plenty of Rep rockers.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
If he would have said Zeppelin, Hendrix, even Nirvana, I would not have thought twice. But Rage? Even if true, it's silly.
Music Is the one thing we all agree on here.Or we wouldn't be debating world issues on a Rock bands fan site.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
When I first what was happening, the visceral side of me said "fuck yeah", but soon after the brain took over. I think it was a mistake, a strategic mistake to shut down the rally. It creates a situation where it creates a moral equivalency between Trump supporters and the Democratic side. Both sides are now resorting mob action in the rallies. Democrats lose the moral high ground. It's the same strategic mistake Rubio made when he decided to lower himself to Trumps level on the stage.
A huge, peaceful rally outside the venue would have been more effective, coupled with a few protesters inside. Those protesters would be bound to get harassed, pushed around, sucker punched, etc. That again allows them to be on the moral high ground. sort of like that young man that was punched by the old fuck in NC.
Now you have a situation where Trump has the opportunity to try to be 'peace maker' as much BS as it is.
http://www.forwardprogressives.com/10-questions-republicans-need-to-answer-concerning-the-rise-of-donald-trump/
Trump's rhetoric is shameful, but it should be countered with a better message. That's how free speech should work.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Conservative values include warmongering and disdain for immigrants and those in poverty...there is no disputing that, direct quotes of these values can be found in droves from people who represent large swaths of conservatism.
A song raging against the machine is NOT ever going to be equal in hate to a song that glorifies and supports unfounded wars that kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
Now look at what the conservatives offer our country as way of politicians and policies!!!! Well speaks for itself.
As to your war mongering, well ah ah ah........
So keep spreading g the joys of your side. Ha
So very presidential, he is not.
Let's remember that Trump and Sanders were to debate, but Trump pulled out. Who's the adult and who's the child, here?
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-almost-hosted-a-trumpsanders-debate-but-trump-backed-out/
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Are you trying to say that banning Muslims from entering the US, labeling them like Jews in Germany, and the rest of Trump's bullshit is not a form of hatred?
Are you trying to say that white phosphorus, depleted uranium shells, and drone missiles don't feel like hate to the people who's children are blown apart?
Or are you just trying to make a semantic argument to divert from the truth, conservative values are deliberately hurtful to large groups of people who aren't straight white Americans?