Okay, this is going to be a massive post, so I'm sorry. But for my liberal and conservative friends, please have the patience to spend 30 seconds reading this. It's from a conservative, but rational writer at the very astute American Conservative Magazine. I'm a Democrat, but he's right. Not on every point, but the broader point that having a mob break up a Trump rally costs us the moral high ground. Please think about this. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/social-justice-warriors-will-elect-trump/
Yesterday I wrote denouncing the air of thuggery around Trump rallies, in particular the old coot in Fayetteville who punched an anti-Trump demonstrator. I stand by that opinion. We cannot have a democracy if people are going to get physically assaulted at a political demonstration. That loudmouth protester was in the process of being removed from the building when that jerk old man sucker-punched him. He was arrested, the old man, and charged. I hope he pays a legal price for that behavior. We cannot have that.
Getting the Chicago news, though, gives me a strongly pro-Trump feeling. These left-wing demonstrators tried to shut down an American presidential candidate’s speech during the campaign — and they succeeded, through an implicit threat of violence. People who support Trump drove hours to hear him talk, and they were denied their constitutional rights by left-wing hotheads who believe that they are so righteous that they don’t have to observe basic civility. You come to a Trump rally and you start flipping people off? You should not be surprised if you get a sock in the face.
What happened tonight in Chicago is why we need Trump, as obnoxious as he is, to keep going. I am not a Trump supporter, and I reject much of his rhetoric. But he has a right to give a speech, even an obnoxious speech, without it being interrupted by demonstrators. All of us do. Trump is revealing how impossible it is to have a normal democracy with the activist left, who think their crying need for “safe spaces” gives them the right to silence their opponents.
No. This political correctness needs to be opposed, and it needs to be opposed with force. I don’t know why the police couldn’t handle this situation, but they had better be on it in the future, because many Americans will not stand for this. What those protesters have done tonight is create a lot more Trump voters out of people who are sick and tired of privileged leftists using thug tactics to silence their opponents.
I would feel exactly the same way if conservative protesters tried to shut down a Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders rally. Protest all you want, but do it outside the venue, or silently inside. Do not silence the speaker, because if you do that, you legitimize your opponents trying to silence the speakers from your side. Thuggish, illiberal tactics like this from the left call forth the same kind of thing from the right. When right-wing white nationalist types show up and make trouble at Democratic rallies, or BLM rallies, and get them cancelled, on what grounds will you on the left have to complain?
For me, it’s all about the mob. I despise the mob. Any mob, which I define as a crowd that acts in force to silence people by intimidation or actual violence. We have seen over the past few months how left-wing mobs on college campuses have gotten away with outrageous things, because men and women in authority on those campuses lacked the guts to stand up for the liberal civic order. This is why I cannot support Black Lives Matter, even though I support its goal of bringing critical attention to police brutality: because they believe that their cause is so righteous that they have the right to stomp over anybody who doesn’t share their vision.
Don’t y’all understand that people like you only feed the Trump beast?
Unlike the liberal New York Daily News — and, no doubt, the rest of the mainstream media — I do not blame Donald Trump for this tonight. I blame the left. You want to protest against Trump? Great — that’s your right as an American. But you do so silently and peaceably. You let the man speak. It’s his right as an American, and it’s the right of the people in the audience to hear his message, however offensive it may be to you, and make up their mind about it.
This has gone too far. When an American presidential candidate has to cancel his rally in a major city because protesters have made it too dangerous, we have a serious problem in this country. It’s infuriating. This is not America. Those disruptive protesters need to be made to understand that this is not how America works.
Keep at it, Black Lives Matter and fellow travelers. You are going to get Trump elected.
the guy uses twitter like a 13 year old... claims on twitter that the stage rusher is tied to ISIS. and his poorly educated supporters believe that nonsense and run with it. who makes that up and puts it on social media? what a fucking lowlife.
the guy uses twitter like a 13 year old... claims on twitter that the stage rusher is tied to ISIS. and his poorly educated supporters believe that nonsense and run with it. who makes that up and puts it on social media? what a fucking lowlife.
gambs, not intended in any way to preach - and sorry you took it that way, I thought you knew me better! - but to vent at some of the shit I've seen here. My comments in the post you quoted does show where I stand on some issues. I've been pretty clear in the past as well, not to mention when I don't have a stance, or still in the process of figuring shit out.
I may have back issues but I'm not spineless.
My skin is in though as I've said before, I answer to myself first and foremost.
Trump? Not a supporter (and think what his dumbass and/or misguided fans do is on them) but I do appreciate his saying what he thinks, PC or not, vs what the handlers and PR folks of others feed their cattle.
What is bolded is a contradiction. You support his voicing whatever, you support. So do you appreciate him saying he's not responsible for the hatred and violence that he's directly inciting yet, denying?
No it isn't. Appreciating someone speaking their mind and supporting what that mind says are two completely different things.
Ok, I was looking at it differently, clarification appreciated.
the guy uses twitter like a 13 year old... claims on twitter that the stage rusher is tied to ISIS. and his poorly educated supporters believe that nonsense and run with it. who makes that up and puts it on social media? what a fucking lowlife.
Okay, this is going to be a massive post, so I'm sorry. But for my liberal and conservative friends, please have the patience to spend 30 seconds reading this. It's from a conservative, but rational writer at the very astute American Conservative Magazine. I'm a Democrat, but he's right. Not on every point, but the broader point that having a mob break up a Trump rally costs us the moral high ground. Please think about this. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/social-justice-warriors-will-elect-trump/
Yesterday I wrote denouncing the air of thuggery around Trump rallies, in particular the old coot in Fayetteville who punched an anti-Trump demonstrator. I stand by that opinion. We cannot have a democracy if people are going to get physically assaulted at a political demonstration. That loudmouth protester was in the process of being removed from the building when that jerk old man sucker-punched him. He was arrested, the old man, and charged. I hope he pays a legal price for that behavior. We cannot have that.
Getting the Chicago news, though, gives me a strongly pro-Trump feeling. These left-wing demonstrators tried to shut down an American presidential candidate’s speech during the campaign — and they succeeded, through an implicit threat of violence. People who support Trump drove hours to hear him talk, and they were denied their constitutional rights by left-wing hotheads who believe that they are so righteous that they don’t have to observe basic civility. You come to a Trump rally and you start flipping people off? You should not be surprised if you get a sock in the face.
What happened tonight in Chicago is why we need Trump, as obnoxious as he is, to keep going. I am not a Trump supporter, and I reject much of his rhetoric. But he has a right to give a speech, even an obnoxious speech, without it being interrupted by demonstrators. All of us do. Trump is revealing how impossible it is to have a normal democracy with the activist left, who think their crying need for “safe spaces” gives them the right to silence their opponents.
No. This political correctness needs to be opposed, and it needs to be opposed with force. I don’t know why the police couldn’t handle this situation, but they had better be on it in the future, because many Americans will not stand for this. What those protesters have done tonight is create a lot more Trump voters out of people who are sick and tired of privileged leftists using thug tactics to silence their opponents.
I would feel exactly the same way if conservative protesters tried to shut down a Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders rally. Protest all you want, but do it outside the venue, or silently inside. Do not silence the speaker, because if you do that, you legitimize your opponents trying to silence the speakers from your side. Thuggish, illiberal tactics like this from the left call forth the same kind of thing from the right. When right-wing white nationalist types show up and make trouble at Democratic rallies, or BLM rallies, and get them cancelled, on what grounds will you on the left have to complain?
For me, it’s all about the mob. I despise the mob. Any mob, which I define as a crowd that acts in force to silence people by intimidation or actual violence. We have seen over the past few months how left-wing mobs on college campuses have gotten away with outrageous things, because men and women in authority on those campuses lacked the guts to stand up for the liberal civic order. This is why I cannot support Black Lives Matter, even though I support its goal of bringing critical attention to police brutality: because they believe that their cause is so righteous that they have the right to stomp over anybody who doesn’t share their vision.
Don’t y’all understand that people like you only feed the Trump beast?
Unlike the liberal New York Daily News — and, no doubt, the rest of the mainstream media — I do not blame Donald Trump for this tonight. I blame the left. You want to protest against Trump? Great — that’s your right as an American. But you do so silently and peaceably. You let the man speak. It’s his right as an American, and it’s the right of the people in the audience to hear his message, however offensive it may be to you, and make up their mind about it.
This has gone too far. When an American presidential candidate has to cancel his rally in a major city because protesters have made it too dangerous, we have a serious problem in this country. It’s infuriating. This is not America. Those disruptive protesters need to be made to understand that this is not how America works.
Keep at it, Black Lives Matter and fellow travelers. You are going to get Trump elected.
I don't think what happened in Chicago is an indication we need Trump to continue, and I don't think BLM is going to get him elected. But I do agree that the protest shutting down that rally isn't something to be celebrated.
Let people speak. Voice your opposition. Donald Trump is not that hard to discredit.
Trump? Not a supporter (and think what his dumbass and/or misguided fans do is on them) but I do appreciate his saying what he thinks, PC or not, vs what the handlers and PR folks of others feed their cattle.
So do you think Trump bears any responsibility for some of the things he says and how his supporters react?
gambs, not intended in any way to preach - and sorry you took it that way, I thought you knew me better! - but to vent at some of the shit I've seen here. My comments in the post you quoted does show where I stand on some issues. I've been pretty clear in the past as well, not to mention when I don't have a stance, or still in the process of figuring shit out.
I may have back issues but I'm not spineless.
My skin is in though as I've said before, I answer to myself first and foremost.
Trump? Not a supporter (and think what his dumbass and/or misguided fans do is on them) but I do appreciate his saying what he thinks, PC or not, vs what the handlers and PR folks of others feed their cattle.
What is bolded is a contradiction. You support his voicing whatever, you support. So do you appreciate him saying he's not responsible for the hatred and violence that he's directly inciting yet, denying?
No it isn't. Appreciating someone speaking their mind and supporting what that mind says are two completely different things.
Agreed there is a difference. But I'm not sure why feeling free to say something socially or morally unacceptable is something to be admired. Yelling the N word is certainly un-PC, but that's not a good thing either.
This kind of thing is only going to get worse. How many here would celebrate if Trump supporters showed up at a Sanders rally in a similar effort? They would be widely condemned, correct? And they would deserve to be. This is not how our political process is supposed to unfold.
Okay, this is going to be a massive post, so I'm sorry. But for my liberal and conservative friends, please have the patience to spend 30 seconds reading this. It's from a conservative, but rational writer at the very astute American Conservative Magazine. I'm a Democrat, but he's right. Not on every point, but the broader point that having a mob break up a Trump rally costs us the moral high ground. Please think about this. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/social-justice-warriors-will-elect-trump/
Yesterday I wrote denouncing the air of thuggery around Trump rallies, in particular the old coot in Fayetteville who punched an anti-Trump demonstrator. I stand by that opinion. We cannot have a democracy if people are going to get physically assaulted at a political demonstration. That loudmouth protester was in the process of being removed from the building when that jerk old man sucker-punched him. He was arrested, the old man, and charged. I hope he pays a legal price for that behavior. We cannot have that.
Getting the Chicago news, though, gives me a strongly pro-Trump feeling. These left-wing demonstrators tried to shut down an American presidential candidate’s speech during the campaign — and they succeeded, through an implicit threat of violence. People who support Trump drove hours to hear him talk, and they were denied their constitutional rights by left-wing hotheads who believe that they are so righteous that they don’t have to observe basic civility. You come to a Trump rally and you start flipping people off? You should not be surprised if you get a sock in the face.
What happened tonight in Chicago is why we need Trump, as obnoxious as he is, to keep going. I am not a Trump supporter, and I reject much of his rhetoric. But he has a right to give a speech, even an obnoxious speech, without it being interrupted by demonstrators. All of us do. Trump is revealing how impossible it is to have a normal democracy with the activist left, who think their crying need for “safe spaces” gives them the right to silence their opponents.
No. This political correctness needs to be opposed, and it needs to be opposed with force. I don’t know why the police couldn’t handle this situation, but they had better be on it in the future, because many Americans will not stand for this. What those protesters have done tonight is create a lot more Trump voters out of people who are sick and tired of privileged leftists using thug tactics to silence their opponents.
I would feel exactly the same way if conservative protesters tried to shut down a Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders rally. Protest all you want, but do it outside the venue, or silently inside. Do not silence the speaker, because if you do that, you legitimize your opponents trying to silence the speakers from your side. Thuggish, illiberal tactics like this from the left call forth the same kind of thing from the right. When right-wing white nationalist types show up and make trouble at Democratic rallies, or BLM rallies, and get them cancelled, on what grounds will you on the left have to complain?
For me, it’s all about the mob. I despise the mob. Any mob, which I define as a crowd that acts in force to silence people by intimidation or actual violence. We have seen over the past few months how left-wing mobs on college campuses have gotten away with outrageous things, because men and women in authority on those campuses lacked the guts to stand up for the liberal civic order. This is why I cannot support Black Lives Matter, even though I support its goal of bringing critical attention to police brutality: because they believe that their cause is so righteous that they have the right to stomp over anybody who doesn’t share their vision.
Don’t y’all understand that people like you only feed the Trump beast?
Unlike the liberal New York Daily News — and, no doubt, the rest of the mainstream media — I do not blame Donald Trump for this tonight. I blame the left. You want to protest against Trump? Great — that’s your right as an American. But you do so silently and peaceably. You let the man speak. It’s his right as an American, and it’s the right of the people in the audience to hear his message, however offensive it may be to you, and make up their mind about it.
This has gone too far. When an American presidential candidate has to cancel his rally in a major city because protesters have made it too dangerous, we have a serious problem in this country. It’s infuriating. This is not America. Those disruptive protesters need to be made to understand that this is not how America works.
Keep at it, Black Lives Matter and fellow travelers. You are going to get Trump elected.
I don't think what happened in Chicago is an indication we need Trump to continue, and I don't think BLM is going to get him elected. But I do agree that the protest shutting down that rally isn't something to be celebrated.
Let people speak. Voice your opposition. Donald Trump is not that hard to discredit.
I'm with you. I don't agree with each point, but we have to maintain the moral high ground. That's the most important part of the Trump phenomenon.
gambs, not intended in any way to preach - and sorry you took it that way, I thought you knew me better! - but to vent at some of the shit I've seen here. My comments in the post you quoted does show where I stand on some issues. I've been pretty clear in the past as well, not to mention when I don't have a stance, or still in the process of figuring shit out.
I may have back issues but I'm not spineless.
My skin is in though as I've said before, I answer to myself first and foremost.
Trump? Not a supporter (and think what his dumbass and/or misguided fans do is on them) but I do appreciate his saying what he thinks, PC or not, vs what the handlers and PR folks of others feed their cattle.
What is bolded is a contradiction. You support his voicing whatever, you support. So do you appreciate him saying he's not responsible for the hatred and violence that he's directly inciting yet, denying?
No it isn't. Appreciating someone speaking their mind and supporting what that mind says are two completely different things.
Ok, I was looking at it differently, clarification appreciated.
Okay, this is going to be a massive post, so I'm sorry. But for my liberal and conservative friends, please have the patience to spend 30 seconds reading this. It's from a conservative, but rational writer at the very astute American Conservative Magazine. I'm a Democrat, but he's right. Not on every point, but the broader point that having a mob break up a Trump rally costs us the moral high ground. Please think about this. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/social-justice-warriors-will-elect-trump/
Yesterday I wrote denouncing the air of thuggery around Trump rallies, in particular the old coot in Fayetteville who punched an anti-Trump demonstrator. I stand by that opinion. We cannot have a democracy if people are going to get physically assaulted at a political demonstration. That loudmouth protester was in the process of being removed from the building when that jerk old man sucker-punched him. He was arrested, the old man, and charged. I hope he pays a legal price for that behavior. We cannot have that.
Getting the Chicago news, though, gives me a strongly pro-Trump feeling. These left-wing demonstrators tried to shut down an American presidential candidate’s speech during the campaign — and they succeeded, through an implicit threat of violence. People who support Trump drove hours to hear him talk, and they were denied their constitutional rights by left-wing hotheads who believe that they are so righteous that they don’t have to observe basic civility. You come to a Trump rally and you start flipping people off? You should not be surprised if you get a sock in the face.
What happened tonight in Chicago is why we need Trump, as obnoxious as he is, to keep going. I am not a Trump supporter, and I reject much of his rhetoric. But he has a right to give a speech, even an obnoxious speech, without it being interrupted by demonstrators. All of us do. Trump is revealing how impossible it is to have a normal democracy with the activist left, who think their crying need for “safe spaces” gives them the right to silence their opponents.
No. This political correctness needs to be opposed, and it needs to be opposed with force. I don’t know why the police couldn’t handle this situation, but they had better be on it in the future, because many Americans will not stand for this. What those protesters have done tonight is create a lot more Trump voters out of people who are sick and tired of privileged leftists using thug tactics to silence their opponents.
I would feel exactly the same way if conservative protesters tried to shut down a Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders rally. Protest all you want, but do it outside the venue, or silently inside. Do not silence the speaker, because if you do that, you legitimize your opponents trying to silence the speakers from your side. Thuggish, illiberal tactics like this from the left call forth the same kind of thing from the right. When right-wing white nationalist types show up and make trouble at Democratic rallies, or BLM rallies, and get them cancelled, on what grounds will you on the left have to complain?
For me, it’s all about the mob. I despise the mob. Any mob, which I define as a crowd that acts in force to silence people by intimidation or actual violence. We have seen over the past few months how left-wing mobs on college campuses have gotten away with outrageous things, because men and women in authority on those campuses lacked the guts to stand up for the liberal civic order. This is why I cannot support Black Lives Matter, even though I support its goal of bringing critical attention to police brutality: because they believe that their cause is so righteous that they have the right to stomp over anybody who doesn’t share their vision.
Don’t y’all understand that people like you only feed the Trump beast?
Unlike the liberal New York Daily News — and, no doubt, the rest of the mainstream media — I do not blame Donald Trump for this tonight. I blame the left. You want to protest against Trump? Great — that’s your right as an American. But you do so silently and peaceably. You let the man speak. It’s his right as an American, and it’s the right of the people in the audience to hear his message, however offensive it may be to you, and make up their mind about it.
This has gone too far. When an American presidential candidate has to cancel his rally in a major city because protesters have made it too dangerous, we have a serious problem in this country. It’s infuriating. This is not America. Those disruptive protesters need to be made to understand that this is not how America works.
Keep at it, Black Lives Matter and fellow travelers. You are going to get Trump elected.
I don't think what happened in Chicago is an indication we need Trump to continue, and I don't think BLM is going to get him elected. But I do agree that the protest shutting down that rally isn't something to be celebrated.
Let people speak. Voice your opposition. Donald Trump is not that hard to discredit.
I'm with you. I don't agree with each point, but we have to maintain the moral high ground. That's the most important part of the Trump phenomenon.
Okay, this is going to be a massive post, so I'm sorry. But for my liberal and conservative friends, please have the patience to spend 30 seconds reading this. It's from a conservative, but rational writer at the very astute American Conservative Magazine. I'm a Democrat, but he's right. Not on every point, but the broader point that having a mob break up a Trump rally costs us the moral high ground. Please think about this. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/social-justice-warriors-will-elect-trump/
Yesterday I wrote denouncing the air of thuggery around Trump rallies, in particular the old coot in Fayetteville who punched an anti-Trump demonstrator. I stand by that opinion. We cannot have a democracy if people are going to get physically assaulted at a political demonstration. That loudmouth protester was in the process of being removed from the building when that jerk old man sucker-punched him. He was arrested, the old man, and charged. I hope he pays a legal price for that behavior. We cannot have that.
Getting the Chicago news, though, gives me a strongly pro-Trump feeling. These left-wing demonstrators tried to shut down an American presidential candidate’s speech during the campaign — and they succeeded, through an implicit threat of violence. People who support Trump drove hours to hear him talk, and they were denied their constitutional rights by left-wing hotheads who believe that they are so righteous that they don’t have to observe basic civility. You come to a Trump rally and you start flipping people off? You should not be surprised if you get a sock in the face.
What happened tonight in Chicago is why we need Trump, as obnoxious as he is, to keep going. I am not a Trump supporter, and I reject much of his rhetoric. But he has a right to give a speech, even an obnoxious speech, without it being interrupted by demonstrators. All of us do. Trump is revealing how impossible it is to have a normal democracy with the activist left, who think their crying need for “safe spaces” gives them the right to silence their opponents.
No. This political correctness needs to be opposed, and it needs to be opposed with force. I don’t know why the police couldn’t handle this situation, but they had better be on it in the future, because many Americans will not stand for this. What those protesters have done tonight is create a lot more Trump voters out of people who are sick and tired of privileged leftists using thug tactics to silence their opponents.
I would feel exactly the same way if conservative protesters tried to shut down a Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders rally. Protest all you want, but do it outside the venue, or silently inside. Do not silence the speaker, because if you do that, you legitimize your opponents trying to silence the speakers from your side. Thuggish, illiberal tactics like this from the left call forth the same kind of thing from the right. When right-wing white nationalist types show up and make trouble at Democratic rallies, or BLM rallies, and get them cancelled, on what grounds will you on the left have to complain?
For me, it’s all about the mob. I despise the mob. Any mob, which I define as a crowd that acts in force to silence people by intimidation or actual violence. We have seen over the past few months how left-wing mobs on college campuses have gotten away with outrageous things, because men and women in authority on those campuses lacked the guts to stand up for the liberal civic order. This is why I cannot support Black Lives Matter, even though I support its goal of bringing critical attention to police brutality: because they believe that their cause is so righteous that they have the right to stomp over anybody who doesn’t share their vision.
Don’t y’all understand that people like you only feed the Trump beast?
Unlike the liberal New York Daily News — and, no doubt, the rest of the mainstream media — I do not blame Donald Trump for this tonight. I blame the left. You want to protest against Trump? Great — that’s your right as an American. But you do so silently and peaceably. You let the man speak. It’s his right as an American, and it’s the right of the people in the audience to hear his message, however offensive it may be to you, and make up their mind about it.
This has gone too far. When an American presidential candidate has to cancel his rally in a major city because protesters have made it too dangerous, we have a serious problem in this country. It’s infuriating. This is not America. Those disruptive protesters need to be made to understand that this is not how America works.
Keep at it, Black Lives Matter and fellow travelers. You are going to get Trump elected.
I don't think what happened in Chicago is an indication we need Trump to continue, and I don't think BLM is going to get him elected. But I do agree that the protest shutting down that rally isn't something to be celebrated.
Let people speak. Voice your opposition. Donald Trump is not that hard to discredit.
I'm with you. I don't agree with each point, but we have to maintain the moral high ground. That's the most important part of the Trump phenomenon.
Walking tightrope high, over moral ground
I like that.. put that to a beat and you're onto something.
the guy uses twitter like a 13 year old... claims on twitter that the stage rusher is tied to ISIS. and his poorly educated supporters believe that nonsense and run with it. who makes that up and puts it on social media? what a fucking lowlife.
He misspoke.
Really?
If he did... his propensity to do so is far from fitting for the President of the United States.
If he didn't... his propensity to offend is far from fitting for the President of the United States.
Trump is doing a fantastic job fracturing the US. He's even managed to fracture this forum to some degree.
*And BS... come home from the fair, man. Trump is not racist? For all he's said to this point about Mexicans and Muslims... you're actually going to suggest he's not racist?
the guy uses twitter like a 13 year old... claims on twitter that the stage rusher is tied to ISIS. and his poorly educated supporters believe that nonsense and run with it. who makes that up and puts it on social media? what a fucking lowlife.
He misspoke.
Really?
If he did... his propensity to do so is far from fitting for the President of the United States.
If he didn't... his propensity to offend is far from fitting for the President of the United States.
Trump is doing a fantastic job fracturing the US. He's even managed to fracture this forum to some degree.
*And BS... come home from the fair, man. Trump is not racist? For all he's said to this point about Mexicans and Muslims... you're actually going to suggest he's not racist?
I said pages ago that Bernie's people cannot get dragged into this muck. I firmly believe that.
I agree.
I am kinda glad that the bullies at the Trump rallies got a little taste of their own shit. But tactically it was a mistake, not by Bernie....but his supporters.
This kind of thing is only going to get worse. How many here would celebrate if Trump supporters showed up at a Sanders rally in a similar effort? They would be widely condemned, correct? And they would deserve to be. This is not how our political process is supposed to unfold.
I don't know that it would be so widely condemned. I wouldn't condemn it if they weren't violent. I don't think shouting matches like this are going to take hold with any candidate less crazy than Goldwater or Trump.
This kind of thing is only going to get worse. How many here would celebrate if Trump supporters showed up at a Sanders rally in a similar effort? They would be widely condemned, correct? And they would deserve to be. This is not how our political process is supposed to unfold.
I don't know that it would be so widely condemned. I wouldn't condemn it if they weren't violent. I don't think shouting matches like this are going to take hold with any candidate less crazy than Goldwater or Trump.
Maybe. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next few weeks we see a counter case with which to compare.
Too many posts to reply to specifically but what I want to ask our conservative members here is, where do you draw the line on your conservatism? Do any of you really stand with Trump and his racist, neo-nazi agenda? If so, can you really expect the majority of others who post here to accept that as a reasonable and rational choice? I'm not talking about economics of abortion or other issues that could be interpreted as having grey areas. I'm talking about Donald Trump, a man who is running for POTUS on a racist, hate based platform. If you can say, "Yes, I support that agenda" then say so. Tell us why you hate blacks and Hispanics. Tell us why it's ok in your viewpoint for Trump to encourage his followers to use violence against his opponents. Tell us why its ok for Trump to refer to immigrants as “illegals” and the children of illegal immigrants as “anchor babies". Tell us why you think these things are ok. And after you do that, please stop arguing about why some of us wonder why the hell you want to argue those points here.
I don't care if you are fiscally conservative or you hate granola or believe those of us who are in favor of peace are naive but if you support someone like Trump who promotes hate you are not going to get one inch of slack from me. Sorry, but I don't buy that kind of bullshit. No way.
Who says that Trump and/or Trump's supporters hate blacks and Hispanics? What Trump and his supporters hate are ILLEGAL (meaning not allowed BY LAW) immigrants constantly coming into our country on a daily basis.
You must watch MSNBC too much as well as Rev. Al Sharpton's daily racist comments against whites and Republicans as a whole.
(See, we can talk smack about your 100% biased news station too)
Where do you get this stuff from? You really don't understand that Trump is a racist?
And why on earth do you think I watch MSNBC? WTF?
Or that I watch Rev. Al Sharpton? As best I can recall, I have never mentioned anything about Sharpton on AMT.
You want to talk smack about my 100% biased news station? WTF does that mean? What news station would that be?
Why are you making this shit up?
I'm using the stereotypical liberal station MSNBC just like you all like to knock Fox News for being "biased" when in fact it shows both sides of politics everyday.
And yes, I must not understand that Trump is a "racist". Please thoroughly educate me why.
And your question about what news station I'm talking about, is clearly about MSNBC since that's what I clearly said. Pay attention
Do you seriously not see any racism in the statement about Mexico? "...they're sending rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."
You don't see any racism in a Muslim ban? I know, I know, Muslim isn't a race...isn't really relevant though, only semantic.
In that statement he's not saying that all Mexicans are rapists, but that many rapists have come over our border.
And I'm not gonna lie, the Muslim ban did have me thinking for a bit if I supported it or not. But I soon realized that the majority of radical Islamic terrorists are Muslim. And there is a real threat hanging over our heads of secret members of ISIS flying in the US with a passport and getting in easily.
Desperate times call for desperate measures. And this is a temporary ban. A ban that will be put in place until the problem can be solved.
But many things that Trump wants to do is an impossibility. How can anyone seriously think that Trump would build a giant wall at the expense of Mexico? How could he ban a person of a certain faith from coming into the country? How could he force the military to break the law? How could he deport 11 million people out of the US? The list is long of the BS that Trump says.
I'm wondering where the disconnect is? These are not things that are possible......as long as you believe in a democracy that follows your constitution.
A dictator does these things...or tries to do these things.
FDR did similar things.
And I chuckled at your comment about breaking the law since Hillary has done just that. (And lied)
FDR did similar things, that's correct. The Japanese internment camps used the same logic as banning Muslims. But in retrospect, it was a terrible mistake. We learn from our mistakes, not repeat them.
America has brownophobia. There were a lot more Germans in the country than Japanese during WW2 but the Germans were white.
Really nicely framed here.
"My brain's a good brain!"
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
dignin, too many quotes in there fucked up my response.
So in answer to your question, no. Please re-read what I said if so inclined. Dumbass behavior is on the dumbasses in my mind. Just as I wouldn't say funeral homes or cemeteries burying vets killed while serving are responsible for the Westboro jackass protesters.
Okay, this is going to be a massive post, so I'm sorry. But for my liberal and conservative friends, please have the patience to spend 30 seconds reading this. It's from a conservative, but rational writer at the very astute American Conservative Magazine. I'm a Democrat, but he's right. Not on every point, but the broader point that having a mob break up a Trump rally costs us the moral high ground. Please think about this. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/social-justice-warriors-will-elect-trump/
Yesterday I wrote denouncing the air of thuggery around Trump rallies, in particular the old coot in Fayetteville who punched an anti-Trump demonstrator. I stand by that opinion. We cannot have a democracy if people are going to get physically assaulted at a political demonstration. That loudmouth protester was in the process of being removed from the building when that jerk old man sucker-punched him. He was arrested, the old man, and charged. I hope he pays a legal price for that behavior. We cannot have that.
Getting the Chicago news, though, gives me a strongly pro-Trump feeling. These left-wing demonstrators tried to shut down an American presidential candidate’s speech during the campaign — and they succeeded, through an implicit threat of violence. People who support Trump drove hours to hear him talk, and they were denied their constitutional rights by left-wing hotheads who believe that they are so righteous that they don’t have to observe basic civility. You come to a Trump rally and you start flipping people off? You should not be surprised if you get a sock in the face.
What happened tonight in Chicago is why we need Trump, as obnoxious as he is, to keep going. I am not a Trump supporter, and I reject much of his rhetoric. But he has a right to give a speech, even an obnoxious speech, without it being interrupted by demonstrators. All of us do. Trump is revealing how impossible it is to have a normal democracy with the activist left, who think their crying need for “safe spaces” gives them the right to silence their opponents.
No. This political correctness needs to be opposed, and it needs to be opposed with force. I don’t know why the police couldn’t handle this situation, but they had better be on it in the future, because many Americans will not stand for this. What those protesters have done tonight is create a lot more Trump voters out of people who are sick and tired of privileged leftists using thug tactics to silence their opponents.
I would feel exactly the same way if conservative protesters tried to shut down a Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders rally. Protest all you want, but do it outside the venue, or silently inside. Do not silence the speaker, because if you do that, you legitimize your opponents trying to silence the speakers from your side. Thuggish, illiberal tactics like this from the left call forth the same kind of thing from the right. When right-wing white nationalist types show up and make trouble at Democratic rallies, or BLM rallies, and get them cancelled, on what grounds will you on the left have to complain?
For me, it’s all about the mob. I despise the mob. Any mob, which I define as a crowd that acts in force to silence people by intimidation or actual violence. We have seen over the past few months how left-wing mobs on college campuses have gotten away with outrageous things, because men and women in authority on those campuses lacked the guts to stand up for the liberal civic order. This is why I cannot support Black Lives Matter, even though I support its goal of bringing critical attention to police brutality: because they believe that their cause is so righteous that they have the right to stomp over anybody who doesn’t share their vision.
Don’t y’all understand that people like you only feed the Trump beast?
Unlike the liberal New York Daily News — and, no doubt, the rest of the mainstream media — I do not blame Donald Trump for this tonight. I blame the left. You want to protest against Trump? Great — that’s your right as an American. But you do so silently and peaceably. You let the man speak. It’s his right as an American, and it’s the right of the people in the audience to hear his message, however offensive it may be to you, and make up their mind about it.
This has gone too far. When an American presidential candidate has to cancel his rally in a major city because protesters have made it too dangerous, we have a serious problem in this country. It’s infuriating. This is not America. Those disruptive protesters need to be made to understand that this is not how America works.
Keep at it, Black Lives Matter and fellow travelers. You are going to get Trump elected.
See, the problem with these kind of articles, is that they still divide. It's not the "protesters" that shut down his rally, it's We, the People; the people of Chicago that rejects Trump. Continuing to see this crisis as a us versus them mentality doesn't exactly help the problem, it just makes it worse.
Why aren't we acknowledging this as a people versus politics kind of perspective, not a protester versus supporter problem. Obviously there were more people that are against this person then are and support . It's a public event, and the public spoke.
And I didn't see anyone mention the pepper spraying of the demonstrators in Kansas City, MO Saturday night. Hello, it's also a police problem. Those demonstrators as you will see in the video were peaceful. This all just proves that there will be more of the continuing in the future.
I'm a white guy living in Texas...does it make me a racist if I support Trump's view on illegal immigration? Let me follow by saying I have a step brother that is Hispanic...a step sister that is Hispanic...connect the dots and now you realize that I have at least one step parent that is Hispanic. I also have a son-in-law who is African American. In other words, my family is pretty fucking diverse.
My view on the proposed wall is...it's actually racist and shows your full support of modern day slavery if you don't support immigration reform. And you are positively in denial...or just plain stupid...if you don't see that.
Why you ask? It's racist because the people that suffer the most are those that are coming from Mexico and South America. This isn't about the hillbilly rednecks who want to keep the "brown" guys out. It's about modern slavery. It's slavery because everyone that buys their tomatoes and other produce from the grocery store, has a house built, has a lawn mowed, and just about anything else requiring hard, manual labor, etc. etc. is doing so on the very backs of these poor people that come to this country wanting more.
You think these people are risking their lives to come here to make fifty fucking cents for every 32lbs of tomatoes they pick? How is this not slavery?!?!? How is this not racist?!?!? You think they come here brimming with excitement to work from 4am to 8pm to pick the produce you put on your sandwiches, salads, smoothies or whatever the fuck else you're loading it up on while their kids are either home alone or God knows where else all day?? But who are they going to complain to when they are here illegally??? As long as our border allows for an unfettered flow of cheap labor, NOTHING will stop these people from being abused.
You think it's fair and just that big companies like Facebook, Disney, Apple, etc. can just bring in low paid foreign workers just so the greedy bastards can save an average of $13,000 per displaced American worker? How is that not racist? Where is the fucking outrage there??? And yes, I am fully aware that H1B visa workers are required by law to be paid the same wage as other workers with similar skills. The reality however, is that it's been found most of these workers in the tech industry for example, are paid about $13,000 less than their American counterparts, for the same fucking job! Please tell me how this is not racism at it's very core??
Trump, for all his buffoonery, has actually come up with the best possible solution to this problem. Secure the border, vet the incoming immigrants, and make it easier to become a legal citizen. Only a complete asshole could be against having those measures in place.
Why would you not try to secure the southern border and maybe inhibit both drug and human trafficking? Why would you not verify those wishing to enter the country legally? Who in their right mind just wants anyone and everyone, no questions asked, felons, drug dealers and rapists I believe he called them...to just enter freely? How fucking stupid are you to support that? How does that help the immigrants coming here with families, looking to this country for hope, to have that shitty element following them here? And how could you not want a plan that makes it easier to come here legally?
So before you start throwing around racism, you should take a look at what you support, probably on a daily basis, that contributes to keeping immigrant workers in the steerage class of our society and enables a slave labor force that hasn't been seen in this country since the 1850's. If you don't see how reforming our immigration policies and securing our border doesn't benefit these people and everyone else for that matter, then you are truly lost.
This kind of thing is only going to get worse. How many here would celebrate if Trump supporters showed up at a Sanders rally in a similar effort? They would be widely condemned, correct? And they would deserve to be. This is not how our political process is supposed to unfold.
Drumpf has already threatened to do that. He would be personally responsible.
This kind of thing is only going to get worse. How many here would celebrate if Trump supporters showed up at a Sanders rally in a similar effort? They would be widely condemned, correct? And they would deserve to be. This is not how our political process is supposed to unfold.
Drumpf has already threatened to do that. He would be personally responsible.
aahhh politics. Nasty shit happens behind the scenes but when it comes affront people are aghast. People don't like when others tell it like it is.
Okay, this is going to be a massive post, so I'm sorry. But for my liberal and conservative friends, please have the patience to spend 30 seconds reading this. It's from a conservative, but rational writer at the very astute American Conservative Magazine. I'm a Democrat, but he's right. Not on every point, but the broader point that having a mob break up a Trump rally costs us the moral high ground. Please think about this. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/social-justice-warriors-will-elect-trump/
Yesterday I wrote denouncing the air of thuggery around Trump rallies, in particular the old coot in Fayetteville who punched an anti-Trump demonstrator. I stand by that opinion. We cannot have a democracy if people are going to get physically assaulted at a political demonstration. That loudmouth protester was in the process of being removed from the building when that jerk old man sucker-punched him. He was arrested, the old man, and charged. I hope he pays a legal price for that behavior. We cannot have that.
Getting the Chicago news, though, gives me a strongly pro-Trump feeling. These left-wing demonstrators tried to shut down an American presidential candidate’s speech during the campaign — and they succeeded, through an implicit threat of violence. People who support Trump drove hours to hear him talk, and they were denied their constitutional rights by left-wing hotheads who believe that they are so righteous that they don’t have to observe basic civility. You come to a Trump rally and you start flipping people off? You should not be surprised if you get a sock in the face.
What happened tonight in Chicago is why we need Trump, as obnoxious as he is, to keep going. I am not a Trump supporter, and I reject much of his rhetoric. But he has a right to give a speech, even an obnoxious speech, without it being interrupted by demonstrators. All of us do. Trump is revealing how impossible it is to have a normal democracy with the activist left, who think their crying need for “safe spaces” gives them the right to silence their opponents.
No. This political correctness needs to be opposed, and it needs to be opposed with force. I don’t know why the police couldn’t handle this situation, but they had better be on it in the future, because many Americans will not stand for this. What those protesters have done tonight is create a lot more Trump voters out of people who are sick and tired of privileged leftists using thug tactics to silence their opponents.
I would feel exactly the same way if conservative protesters tried to shut down a Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders rally. Protest all you want, but do it outside the venue, or silently inside. Do not silence the speaker, because if you do that, you legitimize your opponents trying to silence the speakers from your side. Thuggish, illiberal tactics like this from the left call forth the same kind of thing from the right. When right-wing white nationalist types show up and make trouble at Democratic rallies, or BLM rallies, and get them cancelled, on what grounds will you on the left have to complain?
For me, it’s all about the mob. I despise the mob. Any mob, which I define as a crowd that acts in force to silence people by intimidation or actual violence. We have seen over the past few months how left-wing mobs on college campuses have gotten away with outrageous things, because men and women in authority on those campuses lacked the guts to stand up for the liberal civic order. This is why I cannot support Black Lives Matter, even though I support its goal of bringing critical attention to police brutality: because they believe that their cause is so righteous that they have the right to stomp over anybody who doesn’t share their vision.
Don’t y’all understand that people like you only feed the Trump beast?
Unlike the liberal New York Daily News — and, no doubt, the rest of the mainstream media — I do not blame Donald Trump for this tonight. I blame the left. You want to protest against Trump? Great — that’s your right as an American. But you do so silently and peaceably. You let the man speak. It’s his right as an American, and it’s the right of the people in the audience to hear his message, however offensive it may be to you, and make up their mind about it.
This has gone too far. When an American presidential candidate has to cancel his rally in a major city because protesters have made it too dangerous, we have a serious problem in this country. It’s infuriating. This is not America. Those disruptive protesters need to be made to understand that this is not how America works.
Keep at it, Black Lives Matter and fellow travelers. You are going to get Trump elected.
I don't think what happened in Chicago is an indication we need Trump to continue, and I don't think BLM is going to get him elected. But I do agree that the protest shutting down that rally isn't something to be celebrated.
Let people speak. Voice your opposition. Donald Trump is not that hard to discredit.
I'm with you. I don't agree with each point, but we have to maintain the moral high ground. That's the most important part of the Trump phenomenon.
Which makes me realize that Trump probably loves this. If we treat him like a troll and just ignore him, rather then feed him, we would beat him much faster.
I'm a white guy living in Texas...does it make me a racist if I support Trump's view on illegal immigration? Let me follow by saying I have a step brother that is Hispanic...a step sister that is Hispanic...connect the dots and now you realize that I have at least one step parent that is Hispanic. I also have a son-in-law who is African American. In other words, my family is pretty fucking diverse.
My view on the proposed wall is...it's actually racist and shows your full support of modern day slavery if you don't support immigration reform. And you are positively in denial...or just plain stupid...if you don't see that.
Why you ask? It's racist because the people that suffer the most are those that are coming from Mexico and South America. This isn't about the hillbilly rednecks who want to keep the "brown" guys out. It's about modern slavery. It's slavery because everyone that buys their tomatoes and other produce from the grocery store, has a house built, has a lawn mowed, and just about anything else requiring hard, manual labor, etc. etc. is doing so on the very backs of these poor people that come to this country wanting more.
You think these people are risking their lives to come here to make fifty fucking cents for every 32lbs of tomatoes they pick? How is this not slavery?!?!? How is this not racist?!?!? You think they come here brimming with excitement to work from 4am to 8pm to pick the produce you put on your sandwiches, salads, smoothies or whatever the fuck else you're loading it up on while their kids are either home alone or God knows where else all day?? But who are they going to complain to when they are here illegally??? As long as our border allows for an unfettered flow of cheap labor, NOTHING will stop these people from being abused.
You think it's fair and just that big companies like Facebook, Disney, Apple, etc. can just bring in low paid foreign workers just so the greedy bastards can save an average of $13,000 per displaced American worker? How is that not racist? Where is the fucking outrage there??? And yes, I am fully aware that H1B visa workers are required by law to be paid the same wage as other workers with similar skills. The reality however, is that it's been found most of these workers in the tech industry for example, are paid about $13,000 less than their American counterparts, for the same fucking job! Please tell me how this is not racism at it's very core??
Trump, for all his buffoonery, has actually come up with the best possible solution to this problem. Secure the border, vet the incoming immigrants, and make it easier to become a legal citizen. Only a complete asshole could be against having those measures in place.
Why would you not try to secure the southern border and maybe inhibit both drug and human trafficking? Why would you not verify those wishing to enter the country legally? Who in their right mind just wants anyone and everyone, no questions asked, felons, drug dealers and rapists I believe he called them...to just enter freely? How fucking stupid are you to support that? How does that help the immigrants coming here with families, looking to this country for hope, to have that shitty element following them here? And how could you not want a plan that makes it easier to come here legally?
So before you start throwing around racism, you should take a look at what you support, probably on a daily basis, that contributes to keeping immigrant workers in the steerage class of our society and enables a slave labor force that hasn't been seen in this country since the 1850's. If you don't see how reforming our immigration policies and securing our border doesn't benefit these people and everyone else for that matter, then you are truly lost.
Sure, all of that, if making legal immigration easier is actually a goal. It isn't.
Okay, this is going to be a massive post, so I'm sorry. But for my liberal and conservative friends, please have the patience to spend 30 seconds reading this. It's from a conservative, but rational writer at the very astute American Conservative Magazine. I'm a Democrat, but he's right. Not on every point, but the broader point that having a mob break up a Trump rally costs us the moral high ground. Please think about this. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/social-justice-warriors-will-elect-trump/
Yesterday I wrote denouncing the air of thuggery around Trump rallies, in particular the old coot in Fayetteville who punched an anti-Trump demonstrator. I stand by that opinion. We cannot have a democracy if people are going to get physically assaulted at a political demonstration. That loudmouth protester was in the process of being removed from the building when that jerk old man sucker-punched him. He was arrested, the old man, and charged. I hope he pays a legal price for that behavior. We cannot have that.
Getting the Chicago news, though, gives me a strongly pro-Trump feeling. These left-wing demonstrators tried to shut down an American presidential candidate’s speech during the campaign — and they succeeded, through an implicit threat of violence. People who support Trump drove hours to hear him talk, and they were denied their constitutional rights by left-wing hotheads who believe that they are so righteous that they don’t have to observe basic civility. You come to a Trump rally and you start flipping people off? You should not be surprised if you get a sock in the face.
What happened tonight in Chicago is why we need Trump, as obnoxious as he is, to keep going. I am not a Trump supporter, and I reject much of his rhetoric. But he has a right to give a speech, even an obnoxious speech, without it being interrupted by demonstrators. All of us do. Trump is revealing how impossible it is to have a normal democracy with the activist left, who think their crying need for “safe spaces” gives them the right to silence their opponents.
No. This political correctness needs to be opposed, and it needs to be opposed with force. I don’t know why the police couldn’t handle this situation, but they had better be on it in the future, because many Americans will not stand for this. What those protesters have done tonight is create a lot more Trump voters out of people who are sick and tired of privileged leftists using thug tactics to silence their opponents.
I would feel exactly the same way if conservative protesters tried to shut down a Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders rally. Protest all you want, but do it outside the venue, or silently inside. Do not silence the speaker, because if you do that, you legitimize your opponents trying to silence the speakers from your side. Thuggish, illiberal tactics like this from the left call forth the same kind of thing from the right. When right-wing white nationalist types show up and make trouble at Democratic rallies, or BLM rallies, and get them cancelled, on what grounds will you on the left have to complain?
For me, it’s all about the mob. I despise the mob. Any mob, which I define as a crowd that acts in force to silence people by intimidation or actual violence. We have seen over the past few months how left-wing mobs on college campuses have gotten away with outrageous things, because men and women in authority on those campuses lacked the guts to stand up for the liberal civic order. This is why I cannot support Black Lives Matter, even though I support its goal of bringing critical attention to police brutality: because they believe that their cause is so righteous that they have the right to stomp over anybody who doesn’t share their vision.
Don’t y’all understand that people like you only feed the Trump beast?
Unlike the liberal New York Daily News — and, no doubt, the rest of the mainstream media — I do not blame Donald Trump for this tonight. I blame the left. You want to protest against Trump? Great — that’s your right as an American. But you do so silently and peaceably. You let the man speak. It’s his right as an American, and it’s the right of the people in the audience to hear his message, however offensive it may be to you, and make up their mind about it.
This has gone too far. When an American presidential candidate has to cancel his rally in a major city because protesters have made it too dangerous, we have a serious problem in this country. It’s infuriating. This is not America. Those disruptive protesters need to be made to understand that this is not how America works.
Keep at it, Black Lives Matter and fellow travelers. You are going to get Trump elected.
I don't think what happened in Chicago is an indication we need Trump to continue, and I don't think BLM is going to get him elected. But I do agree that the protest shutting down that rally isn't something to be celebrated.
Let people speak. Voice your opposition. Donald Trump is not that hard to discredit.
I'm with you. I don't agree with each point, but we have to maintain the moral high ground. That's the most important part of the Trump phenomenon.
Which makes me realize that Trump probably loves this. If we treat him like a troll and just ignore him, rather then feed him, we would beat him much faster.
Except Trump isn't a cyberspace avatar. He is real.
Okay, this is going to be a massive post, so I'm sorry. But for my liberal and conservative friends, please have the patience to spend 30 seconds reading this. It's from a conservative, but rational writer at the very astute American Conservative Magazine. I'm a Democrat, but he's right. Not on every point, but the broader point that having a mob break up a Trump rally costs us the moral high ground. Please think about this. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/social-justice-warriors-will-elect-trump/
Yesterday I wrote denouncing the air of thuggery around Trump rallies, in particular the old coot in Fayetteville who punched an anti-Trump demonstrator. I stand by that opinion. We cannot have a democracy if people are going to get physically assaulted at a political demonstration. That loudmouth protester was in the process of being removed from the building when that jerk old man sucker-punched him. He was arrested, the old man, and charged. I hope he pays a legal price for that behavior. We cannot have that.
Getting the Chicago news, though, gives me a strongly pro-Trump feeling. These left-wing demonstrators tried to shut down an American presidential candidate’s speech during the campaign — and they succeeded, through an implicit threat of violence. People who support Trump drove hours to hear him talk, and they were denied their constitutional rights by left-wing hotheads who believe that they are so righteous that they don’t have to observe basic civility. You come to a Trump rally and you start flipping people off? You should not be surprised if you get a sock in the face.
What happened tonight in Chicago is why we need Trump, as obnoxious as he is, to keep going. I am not a Trump supporter, and I reject much of his rhetoric. But he has a right to give a speech, even an obnoxious speech, without it being interrupted by demonstrators. All of us do. Trump is revealing how impossible it is to have a normal democracy with the activist left, who think their crying need for “safe spaces” gives them the right to silence their opponents.
No. This political correctness needs to be opposed, and it needs to be opposed with force. I don’t know why the police couldn’t handle this situation, but they had better be on it in the future, because many Americans will not stand for this. What those protesters have done tonight is create a lot more Trump voters out of people who are sick and tired of privileged leftists using thug tactics to silence their opponents.
I would feel exactly the same way if conservative protesters tried to shut down a Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders rally. Protest all you want, but do it outside the venue, or silently inside. Do not silence the speaker, because if you do that, you legitimize your opponents trying to silence the speakers from your side. Thuggish, illiberal tactics like this from the left call forth the same kind of thing from the right. When right-wing white nationalist types show up and make trouble at Democratic rallies, or BLM rallies, and get them cancelled, on what grounds will you on the left have to complain?
For me, it’s all about the mob. I despise the mob. Any mob, which I define as a crowd that acts in force to silence people by intimidation or actual violence. We have seen over the past few months how left-wing mobs on college campuses have gotten away with outrageous things, because men and women in authority on those campuses lacked the guts to stand up for the liberal civic order. This is why I cannot support Black Lives Matter, even though I support its goal of bringing critical attention to police brutality: because they believe that their cause is so righteous that they have the right to stomp over anybody who doesn’t share their vision.
Don’t y’all understand that people like you only feed the Trump beast?
Unlike the liberal New York Daily News — and, no doubt, the rest of the mainstream media — I do not blame Donald Trump for this tonight. I blame the left. You want to protest against Trump? Great — that’s your right as an American. But you do so silently and peaceably. You let the man speak. It’s his right as an American, and it’s the right of the people in the audience to hear his message, however offensive it may be to you, and make up their mind about it.
This has gone too far. When an American presidential candidate has to cancel his rally in a major city because protesters have made it too dangerous, we have a serious problem in this country. It’s infuriating. This is not America. Those disruptive protesters need to be made to understand that this is not how America works.
Keep at it, Black Lives Matter and fellow travelers. You are going to get Trump elected.
See, the problem with these kind of articles, is that they still divide. It's not the "protesters" that shut down his rally, it's We, the People; the people of Chicago that rejects Trump. Continuing to see this crisis as a us versus them mentality doesn't exactly help the problem, it just makes it worse.
Why aren't we acknowledging this as a people versus politics kind of perspective, not a protester versus supporter problem. Obviously there were more people that are against this person then are and support . It's a public event, and the public spoke.
And I didn't see anyone mention the pepper spraying of the demonstrators in Kansas City, MO Saturday night. Hello, it's also a police problem. Those demonstrators as you will see in the video were peaceful. This all just proves that there will be more of the continuing in the future.
no...it's not 'we the people'. Your assumption is that those protesters spoke for everyone. They didn't. They spoke for themselves. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But it was protester v. supporter. How can you possess so much hubris that you (the protesters) speak for all? Just like Trump doesn't speak for all white people, those protesters don't speak for Chicago or all Progressives.
And yes, I saw the KC thing. It was pretty shitty. I have no idea why those cops pulled that crap. Looked like what happened at Cal Berkley a few years ago.
Okay, this is going to be a massive post, so I'm sorry. But for my liberal and conservative friends, please have the patience to spend 30 seconds reading this. It's from a conservative, but rational writer at the very astute American Conservative Magazine. I'm a Democrat, but he's right. Not on every point, but the broader point that having a mob break up a Trump rally costs us the moral high ground. Please think about this. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/social-justice-warriors-will-elect-trump/
Yesterday I wrote denouncing the air of thuggery around Trump rallies, in particular the old coot in Fayetteville who punched an anti-Trump demonstrator. I stand by that opinion. We cannot have a democracy if people are going to get physically assaulted at a political demonstration. That loudmouth protester was in the process of being removed from the building when that jerk old man sucker-punched him. He was arrested, the old man, and charged. I hope he pays a legal price for that behavior. We cannot have that.
Getting the Chicago news, though, gives me a strongly pro-Trump feeling. These left-wing demonstrators tried to shut down an American presidential candidate’s speech during the campaign — and they succeeded, through an implicit threat of violence. People who support Trump drove hours to hear him talk, and they were denied their constitutional rights by left-wing hotheads who believe that they are so righteous that they don’t have to observe basic civility. You come to a Trump rally and you start flipping people off? You should not be surprised if you get a sock in the face.
What happened tonight in Chicago is why we need Trump, as obnoxious as he is, to keep going. I am not a Trump supporter, and I reject much of his rhetoric. But he has a right to give a speech, even an obnoxious speech, without it being interrupted by demonstrators. All of us do. Trump is revealing how impossible it is to have a normal democracy with the activist left, who think their crying need for “safe spaces” gives them the right to silence their opponents.
No. This political correctness needs to be opposed, and it needs to be opposed with force. I don’t know why the police couldn’t handle this situation, but they had better be on it in the future, because many Americans will not stand for this. What those protesters have done tonight is create a lot more Trump voters out of people who are sick and tired of privileged leftists using thug tactics to silence their opponents.
I would feel exactly the same way if conservative protesters tried to shut down a Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders rally. Protest all you want, but do it outside the venue, or silently inside. Do not silence the speaker, because if you do that, you legitimize your opponents trying to silence the speakers from your side. Thuggish, illiberal tactics like this from the left call forth the same kind of thing from the right. When right-wing white nationalist types show up and make trouble at Democratic rallies, or BLM rallies, and get them cancelled, on what grounds will you on the left have to complain?
For me, it’s all about the mob. I despise the mob. Any mob, which I define as a crowd that acts in force to silence people by intimidation or actual violence. We have seen over the past few months how left-wing mobs on college campuses have gotten away with outrageous things, because men and women in authority on those campuses lacked the guts to stand up for the liberal civic order. This is why I cannot support Black Lives Matter, even though I support its goal of bringing critical attention to police brutality: because they believe that their cause is so righteous that they have the right to stomp over anybody who doesn’t share their vision.
Don’t y’all understand that people like you only feed the Trump beast?
Unlike the liberal New York Daily News — and, no doubt, the rest of the mainstream media — I do not blame Donald Trump for this tonight. I blame the left. You want to protest against Trump? Great — that’s your right as an American. But you do so silently and peaceably. You let the man speak. It’s his right as an American, and it’s the right of the people in the audience to hear his message, however offensive it may be to you, and make up their mind about it.
This has gone too far. When an American presidential candidate has to cancel his rally in a major city because protesters have made it too dangerous, we have a serious problem in this country. It’s infuriating. This is not America. Those disruptive protesters need to be made to understand that this is not how America works.
Keep at it, Black Lives Matter and fellow travelers. You are going to get Trump elected.
I don't think what happened in Chicago is an indication we need Trump to continue, and I don't think BLM is going to get him elected. But I do agree that the protest shutting down that rally isn't something to be celebrated.
Let people speak. Voice your opposition. Donald Trump is not that hard to discredit.
I'm with you. I don't agree with each point, but we have to maintain the moral high ground. That's the most important part of the Trump phenomenon.
Which makes me realize that Trump probably loves this. If we treat him like a troll and just ignore him, rather then feed him, we would beat him much faster.
Except Trump isn't a cyberspace avatar. He is real.
But we treat them the same. Like that Trump thread that got closed; people love to bust on Trump. We cannot seem to ignore him as a country, we all love to hate him, EVERYONE talks about him. Now, what would happen if everybody just started to ignore him?
Okay, this is going to be a massive post, so I'm sorry. But for my liberal and conservative friends, please have the patience to spend 30 seconds reading this. It's from a conservative, but rational writer at the very astute American Conservative Magazine. I'm a Democrat, but he's right. Not on every point, but the broader point that having a mob break up a Trump rally costs us the moral high ground. Please think about this. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/social-justice-warriors-will-elect-trump/
Yesterday I wrote denouncing the air of thuggery around Trump rallies, in particular the old coot in Fayetteville who punched an anti-Trump demonstrator. I stand by that opinion. We cannot have a democracy if people are going to get physically assaulted at a political demonstration. That loudmouth protester was in the process of being removed from the building when that jerk old man sucker-punched him. He was arrested, the old man, and charged. I hope he pays a legal price for that behavior. We cannot have that.
Getting the Chicago news, though, gives me a strongly pro-Trump feeling. These left-wing demonstrators tried to shut down an American presidential candidate’s speech during the campaign — and they succeeded, through an implicit threat of violence. People who support Trump drove hours to hear him talk, and they were denied their constitutional rights by left-wing hotheads who believe that they are so righteous that they don’t have to observe basic civility. You come to a Trump rally and you start flipping people off? You should not be surprised if you get a sock in the face.
What happened tonight in Chicago is why we need Trump, as obnoxious as he is, to keep going. I am not a Trump supporter, and I reject much of his rhetoric. But he has a right to give a speech, even an obnoxious speech, without it being interrupted by demonstrators. All of us do. Trump is revealing how impossible it is to have a normal democracy with the activist left, who think their crying need for “safe spaces” gives them the right to silence their opponents.
No. This political correctness needs to be opposed, and it needs to be opposed with force. I don’t know why the police couldn’t handle this situation, but they had better be on it in the future, because many Americans will not stand for this. What those protesters have done tonight is create a lot more Trump voters out of people who are sick and tired of privileged leftists using thug tactics to silence their opponents.
I would feel exactly the same way if conservative protesters tried to shut down a Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders rally. Protest all you want, but do it outside the venue, or silently inside. Do not silence the speaker, because if you do that, you legitimize your opponents trying to silence the speakers from your side. Thuggish, illiberal tactics like this from the left call forth the same kind of thing from the right. When right-wing white nationalist types show up and make trouble at Democratic rallies, or BLM rallies, and get them cancelled, on what grounds will you on the left have to complain?
For me, it’s all about the mob. I despise the mob. Any mob, which I define as a crowd that acts in force to silence people by intimidation or actual violence. We have seen over the past few months how left-wing mobs on college campuses have gotten away with outrageous things, because men and women in authority on those campuses lacked the guts to stand up for the liberal civic order. This is why I cannot support Black Lives Matter, even though I support its goal of bringing critical attention to police brutality: because they believe that their cause is so righteous that they have the right to stomp over anybody who doesn’t share their vision.
Don’t y’all understand that people like you only feed the Trump beast?
Unlike the liberal New York Daily News — and, no doubt, the rest of the mainstream media — I do not blame Donald Trump for this tonight. I blame the left. You want to protest against Trump? Great — that’s your right as an American. But you do so silently and peaceably. You let the man speak. It’s his right as an American, and it’s the right of the people in the audience to hear his message, however offensive it may be to you, and make up their mind about it.
This has gone too far. When an American presidential candidate has to cancel his rally in a major city because protesters have made it too dangerous, we have a serious problem in this country. It’s infuriating. This is not America. Those disruptive protesters need to be made to understand that this is not how America works.
Keep at it, Black Lives Matter and fellow travelers. You are going to get Trump elected.
See, the problem with these kind of articles, is that they still divide. It's not the "protesters" that shut down his rally, it's We, the People; the people of Chicago that rejects Trump. Continuing to see this crisis as a us versus them mentality doesn't exactly help the problem, it just makes it worse.
Why aren't we acknowledging this as a people versus politics kind of perspective, not a protester versus supporter problem. Obviously there were more people that are against this person then are and support . It's a public event, and the public spoke.
And I didn't see anyone mention the pepper spraying of the demonstrators in Kansas City, MO Saturday night. Hello, it's also a police problem. Those demonstrators as you will see in the video were peaceful. This all just proves that there will be more of the continuing in the future.
no...it's not 'we the people'. Your assumption is that those protesters spoke for everyone. They didn't. They spoke for themselves. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But it was protester v. supporter. How can you possess so much hubris that you (the protesters) speak for all? Just like Trump doesn't speak for all white people, those protesters don't speak for Chicago or all Progressives.
And yes, I saw the KC thing. It was pretty shitty. I have no idea why those cops pulled that crap. Looked like what happened at Cal Berkley a few years ago.
It's like standing up for Backspacer on this forum. There is an us against them attitude. Weird.
Comments
Yesterday I wrote denouncing the air of thuggery around Trump rallies, in particular the old coot in Fayetteville who punched an anti-Trump demonstrator. I stand by that opinion. We cannot have a democracy if people are going to get physically assaulted at a political demonstration. That loudmouth protester was in the process of being removed from the building when that jerk old man sucker-punched him. He was arrested, the old man, and charged. I hope he pays a legal price for that behavior. We cannot have that.
Getting the Chicago news, though, gives me a strongly pro-Trump feeling. These left-wing demonstrators tried to shut down an American presidential candidate’s speech during the campaign — and they succeeded, through an implicit threat of violence. People who support Trump drove hours to hear him talk, and they were denied their constitutional rights by left-wing hotheads who believe that they are so righteous that they don’t have to observe basic civility. You come to a Trump rally and you start flipping people off? You should not be surprised if you get a sock in the face.
What happened tonight in Chicago is why we need Trump, as obnoxious as he is, to keep going. I am not a Trump supporter, and I reject much of his rhetoric. But he has a right to give a speech, even an obnoxious speech, without it being interrupted by demonstrators. All of us do. Trump is revealing how impossible it is to have a normal democracy with the activist left, who think their crying need for “safe spaces” gives them the right to silence their opponents.
No. This political correctness needs to be opposed, and it needs to be opposed with force. I don’t know why the police couldn’t handle this situation, but they had better be on it in the future, because many Americans will not stand for this. What those protesters have done tonight is create a lot more Trump voters out of people who are sick and tired of privileged leftists using thug tactics to silence their opponents.
I would feel exactly the same way if conservative protesters tried to shut down a Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders rally. Protest all you want, but do it outside the venue, or silently inside. Do not silence the speaker, because if you do that, you legitimize your opponents trying to silence the speakers from your side. Thuggish, illiberal tactics like this from the left call forth the same kind of thing from the right. When right-wing white nationalist types show up and make trouble at Democratic rallies, or BLM rallies, and get them cancelled, on what grounds will you on the left have to complain?
For me, it’s all about the mob. I despise the mob. Any mob, which I define as a crowd that acts in force to silence people by intimidation or actual violence. We have seen over the past few months how left-wing mobs on college campuses have gotten away with outrageous things, because men and women in authority on those campuses lacked the guts to stand up for the liberal civic order. This is why I cannot support Black Lives Matter, even though I support its goal of bringing critical attention to police brutality: because they believe that their cause is so righteous that they have the right to stomp over anybody who doesn’t share their vision.
Don’t y’all understand that people like you only feed the Trump beast?
Unlike the liberal New York Daily News — and, no doubt, the rest of the mainstream media — I do not blame Donald Trump for this tonight. I blame the left. You want to protest against Trump? Great — that’s your right as an American. But you do so silently and peaceably. You let the man speak. It’s his right as an American, and it’s the right of the people in the audience to hear his message, however offensive it may be to you, and make up their mind about it.
This has gone too far. When an American presidential candidate has to cancel his rally in a major city because protesters have made it too dangerous, we have a serious problem in this country. It’s infuriating. This is not America. Those disruptive protesters need to be made to understand that this is not how America works.
Keep at it, Black Lives Matter and fellow travelers. You are going to get Trump elected.
Let people speak. Voice your opposition. Donald Trump is not that hard to discredit.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
over moral ground
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
If he did... his propensity to do so is far from fitting for the President of the United States.
If he didn't... his propensity to offend is far from fitting for the President of the United States.
Trump is doing a fantastic job fracturing the US. He's even managed to fracture this forum to some degree.
*And BS... come home from the fair, man. Trump is not racist? For all he's said to this point about Mexicans and Muslims... you're actually going to suggest he's not racist?
I am kinda glad that the bullies at the Trump rallies got a little taste of their own shit. But tactically it was a mistake, not by Bernie....but his supporters.
I don't think shouting matches like this are going to take hold with any candidate less crazy than Goldwater or Trump.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
So in answer to your question, no. Please re-read what I said if so inclined. Dumbass behavior is on the dumbasses in my mind. Just as I wouldn't say funeral homes or cemeteries burying vets killed while serving are responsible for the Westboro jackass protesters.
Why aren't we acknowledging this as a people versus politics kind of perspective, not a protester versus supporter problem. Obviously there were more people that are against this person then are and support . It's a public event, and the public spoke.
And I didn't see anyone mention the pepper spraying of the demonstrators in Kansas City, MO Saturday night. Hello, it's also a police problem. Those demonstrators as you will see in the video were peaceful. This all just proves that there will be more of the continuing in the future.
My view on the proposed wall is...it's actually racist and shows your full support of modern day slavery if you don't support immigration reform. And you are positively in denial...or just plain stupid...if you don't see that.
Why you ask? It's racist because the people that suffer the most are those that are coming from Mexico and South America. This isn't about the hillbilly rednecks who want to keep the "brown" guys out. It's about modern slavery. It's slavery because everyone that buys their tomatoes and other produce from the grocery store, has a house built, has a lawn mowed, and just about anything else requiring hard, manual labor, etc. etc. is doing so on the very backs of these poor people that come to this country wanting more.
You think these people are risking their lives to come here to make fifty fucking cents for every 32lbs of tomatoes they pick? How is this not slavery?!?!? How is this not racist?!?!? You think they come here brimming with excitement to work from 4am to 8pm to pick the produce you put on your sandwiches, salads, smoothies or whatever the fuck else you're loading it up on while their kids are either home alone or God knows where else all day?? But who are they going to complain to when they are here illegally??? As long as our border allows for an unfettered flow of cheap labor, NOTHING will stop these people from being abused.
You think it's fair and just that big companies like Facebook, Disney, Apple, etc. can just bring in low paid foreign workers just so the greedy bastards can save an average of $13,000 per displaced American worker? How is that not racist? Where is the fucking outrage there??? And yes, I am fully aware that H1B visa workers are required by law to be paid the same wage as other workers with similar skills. The reality however, is that it's been found most of these workers in the tech industry for example, are paid about $13,000 less than their American counterparts, for the same fucking job! Please tell me how this is not racism at it's very core??
Trump, for all his buffoonery, has actually come up with the best possible solution to this problem. Secure the border, vet the incoming immigrants, and make it easier to become a legal citizen. Only a complete asshole could be against having those measures in place.
Why would you not try to secure the southern border and maybe inhibit both drug and human trafficking? Why would you not verify those wishing to enter the country legally? Who in their right mind just wants anyone and everyone, no questions asked, felons, drug dealers and rapists I believe he called them...to just enter freely? How fucking stupid are you to support that? How does that help the immigrants coming here with families, looking to this country for hope, to have that shitty element following them here? And how could you not want a plan that makes it easier to come here legally?
So before you start throwing around racism, you should take a look at what you support, probably on a daily basis, that contributes to keeping immigrant workers in the steerage class of our society and enables a slave labor force that hasn't been seen in this country since the 1850's. If you don't see how reforming our immigration policies and securing our border doesn't benefit these people and everyone else for that matter, then you are truly lost.
Nasty shit happens behind the scenes but when it comes affront people are aghast.
People don't like when others tell it like it is.
He is real.
And yes, I saw the KC thing. It was pretty shitty. I have no idea why those cops pulled that crap. Looked like what happened at Cal Berkley a few years ago.
There is an us against them attitude.
Weird.