2016 Republican Presidential Candidates.

Indifference

Free said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KiXBqCS_wg

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/tax-reform
I like this plan - some people today pay more then 1/2 their incomes in taxes that is too much IMO.

mrussel1

Indifference said:

Free said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KiXBqCS_wg

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/tax-reform
I like this plan - some people today pay more then 1/2 their incomes in taxes that is too much IMO.

There are some rational items in the Trump tax plan but the very important piece is... where does the 'very rich' start, in light of the phasing out of the deductions? If you start phasing out deductions at 200k while reducing the top rate to 25%, that actually will put a tremendous new financial burden on the middle class that lives on the coasts or Chicago where the cost of living is very high.

Second, without getting into the whole, we definitely should eliminate AMT. That's such bullshit today, considering it was established in the 60's I believe.

One new tax that I agree with on the Hillary plan, is taxing the high speed traders. I don't agree with Bernie's plan to tax all trades. That will hit anyone with a pension, 401k, IRA, etc.

Free

Obviously you don't care to remember or learned how it was before the Reagan era? Read up!

Indifference

Free said:

Obviously you don't care to remember or learned how it was before the Reagan era? Read up!

Sure lets go back in time then when rates where lower then even today - don't cherry pick when rates were higher. Yeah lets go back to 90% percent taxes as it doesn't effect me - so I think its fair!

mrussel1

Indifference said:

Free said:

Obviously you don't care to remember or learned how it was before the Reagan era? Read up!

Sure lets go back in time then when rates where lower then even today - don't cherry pick when rates were higher. Yeah lets go back to 90% percent taxes as it doesn't effect me - so I think its fair!

Right.. the 'malaise' period of the Carter administration.. Energy crisis, runaway inflation, etc. Let's campaign on that one.

jeffbr

mrussel1 said:

Indifference said:

Free said:

Obviously you don't care to remember or learned how it was before the Reagan era? Read up!

Sure lets go back in time then when rates where lower then even today - don't cherry pick when rates were higher. Yeah lets go back to 90% percent taxes as it doesn't effect me - so I think its fair!

Right.. the 'malaise' period of the Carter administration.. Energy crisis, runaway inflation, etc. Let's campaign on that one.

Right! That was so much fun! Waiting in lines for gas hoping there'd be some when you got to the pumps, Some states rationing gas (odd/even license plates). Double digit interest rates, double digit inflation. Good times! History has been kind to Carter because he's an amazing elder statesman and a genuinely great person, but his presidency was a fucking disaster. Free's nostalgia sounds like Trump. Make America great again!

mrussel1

jeffbr said:

mrussel1 said:

Indifference said:

Free said:

Obviously you don't care to remember or learned how it was before the Reagan era? Read up!

Sure lets go back in time then when rates where lower then even today - don't cherry pick when rates were higher. Yeah lets go back to 90% percent taxes as it doesn't effect me - so I think its fair!

Right.. the 'malaise' period of the Carter administration.. Energy crisis, runaway inflation, etc. Let's campaign on that one.

Right! That was so much fun! Waiting in lines for gas hoping there'd be some when you got to the pumps, Some states rationing gas (odd/even license plates). Double digit interest rates, double digit inflation. Good times! History has been kind to Carter because he's an amazing elder statesman and a genuinely great person, but his presidency was a fucking disaster. Free's nostalgia sounds like Trump. Make America great again!

And the worst part... taking Mustangs and Camaros from the awesome muscle cars into the giant vagina vehicles they were in the 70's... 4 cylinder engines, etc. It was a catastrophe!

Wobbie

we all hate ISIS....OK? hillary hates ISIS. bernie (i hope) hates ISIS. I hate ISIS.

but, "carpet bombing" (like they all hang out together) and/or saturating muslim neighborhoods won't work. don't let these tough talkers fool you. they have no real plan.

PJfanwillneverleave1

Wobbie said:

we all hate ISIS....OK? hillary hates ISIS. bernie (i hope) hates ISIS. I hate ISIS.

but, "carpet bombing" (like they all hang out together) and/or saturating muslim neighborhoods won't work. don't let these tough talkers fool you. they have no real plan.

You need a
Feel better?

Wobbie

don't need a

just saying, Ted's shit sounds good but it won't work.

mrussel1

Wobbie said:

don't need a

just saying, Ted's shit sounds good but it won't work.

I think he was just trying to get to the right on Trump on the issue.

brianlux

jeffbr said:

mrussel1 said:

Indifference said:

Free said:

Obviously you don't care to remember or learned how it was before the Reagan era? Read up!

Sure lets go back in time then when rates where lower then even today - don't cherry pick when rates were higher. Yeah lets go back to 90% percent taxes as it doesn't effect me - so I think its fair!

Right.. the 'malaise' period of the Carter administration.. Energy crisis, runaway inflation, etc. Let's campaign on that one.

Right! That was so much fun! Waiting in lines for gas hoping there'd be some when you got to the pumps, Some states rationing gas (odd/even license plates). Double digit interest rates, double digit inflation. Good times! History has been kind to Carter because he's an amazing elder statesman and a genuinely great person, but his presidency was a fucking disaster. Free's nostalgia sounds like Trump. Make America great again!

Every time Carter's presidency gets a bad rap I recommend Andrew Bacevich's book Limits of Power. I wish just once some of the Carter detractors would read that book and tell me what they think.

History does not always project and objective viewpoint. Besides, I would argue that the waiting in line for gas etc. (which all of us who adults at that time had to put up with) was not all a bad thing. We have taken gasoline for granted for 100 years as if there was no end to it, and in more recent years most of us are shielded from what happens in order to procure it. We also neatly tend to forget the impact burning all that gas is having on our planet, our only home. So during that era of gas lines and only being able to gas up every other day, guess what happened? People drove few miles. People began to car pool. Car companies began to produce more fuel efficient cars. These were not bad things at all!

In any case, some of Bacevich's views are expressed in this interview by Bill Moyers:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08152008/transcript1.html

"ANDREW BACEVICH: Well, I would be one of the first to confess that - I think that we have misunderstood and underestimated President Carter. He was the one President of our time who recognized, I think, the challenges awaiting us if we refused to get our house in order. "

"BILL MOYERS: You're the only author I have read, since I read Jimmy Carter, who gives so much time to the President's speech on July 15th, 1979. Why does that speech speak to you so strongly?

ANDREW BACEVICH: Well, this is the so-called Malaise Speech, even though he never used the word "malaise" in the text to the address. It's a very powerful speech, I think, because President Carter says in that speech, oil, our dependence on oil, poses a looming threat to the country. If we act now, we may be able to fix this problem. If we don't act now, we're headed down a path in which not only will we become increasingly dependent upon foreign oil, but we will have opted for a false model of freedom. A freedom of materialism, a freedom of self-indulgence, a freedom of collective recklessness. And what the President was saying at the time was, we need to think about what we mean by freedom. We need to choose a definition of freedom which is anchored in truth, and the way to manifest that choice, is by addressing our energy problem.

He had a profound understanding of the dilemma facing the country in the post Vietnam period. And of course, he was completely hooted, derided, disregarded."

The Juggler

Is it any surprise Trump fumbled the abortion question? He was pro choice until he decided to run for president.....but no no no, he's clearly not a politician.

rgambs

The Juggler said:

Is it any surprise Trump fumbled the abortion question? He was pro choice until he decided to run for president.....but no no no, he's clearly not a politician.

Well said.


Side note:
The Trump issue is obviously a very frustrating and invasive one, in my 3 years here on the boards this is the first post that I have seen by The Juggler that didn't have any humor to it at all!

mrussel1

brianlux said:

jeffbr said:

mrussel1 said:

Indifference said:

Free said:

Obviously you don't care to remember or learned how it was before the Reagan era? Read up!

Sure lets go back in time then when rates where lower then even today - don't cherry pick when rates were higher. Yeah lets go back to 90% percent taxes as it doesn't effect me - so I think its fair!

Right.. the 'malaise' period of the Carter administration.. Energy crisis, runaway inflation, etc. Let's campaign on that one.

Right! That was so much fun! Waiting in lines for gas hoping there'd be some when you got to the pumps, Some states rationing gas (odd/even license plates). Double digit interest rates, double digit inflation. Good times! History has been kind to Carter because he's an amazing elder statesman and a genuinely great person, but his presidency was a fucking disaster. Free's nostalgia sounds like Trump. Make America great again!

Every time Carter's presidency gets a bad rap I recommend Andrew Bacevich's book Limits of Power. I wish just once some of the Carter detractors would read that book and tell me what they think.

History does not always project and objective viewpoint. Besides, I would argue that the waiting in line for gas etc. (which all of us who adults at that time had to put up with) was not all a bad thing. We have taken gasoline for granted for 100 years as if there was no end to it, and in more recent years most of us are shielded from what happens in order to procure it. We also neatly tend to forget the impact burning all that gas is having on our planet, our only home. So during that era of gas lines and only being able to gas up every other day, guess what happened? People drove few miles. People began to car pool. Car companies began to produce more fuel efficient cars. These were not bad things at all!

In any case, some of Bacevich's views are expressed in this interview by Bill Moyers:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08152008/transcript1.html

"ANDREW BACEVICH: Well, I would be one of the first to confess that - I think that we have misunderstood and underestimated President Carter. He was the one President of our time who recognized, I think, the challenges awaiting us if we refused to get our house in order. "

"BILL MOYERS: You're the only author I have read, since I read Jimmy Carter, who gives so much time to the President's speech on July 15th, 1979. Why does that speech speak to you so strongly?

ANDREW BACEVICH: Well, this is the so-called Malaise Speech, even though he never used the word "malaise" in the text to the address. It's a very powerful speech, I think, because President Carter says in that speech, oil, our dependence on oil, poses a looming threat to the country. If we act now, we may be able to fix this problem. If we don't act now, we're headed down a path in which not only will we become increasingly dependent upon foreign oil, but we will have opted for a false model of freedom. A freedom of materialism, a freedom of self-indulgence, a freedom of collective recklessness. And what the President was saying at the time was, we need to think about what we mean by freedom. We need to choose a definition of freedom which is anchored in truth, and the way to manifest that choice, is by addressing our energy problem.

He had a profound understanding of the dilemma facing the country in the post Vietnam period. And of course, he was completely hooted, derided, disregarded."

All true Brian. And Carter was most certainly a good man and a smart man. Circumstances dealt him a bad hand. He took over in a very bad time for a lot of different reasons. Unfortunately he probably had the wrong disposition for that period. We probably needed someone a bit more inspirational. That wasn't really Carter's oral forte.

mrussel1

The Juggler said:

Is it any surprise Trump fumbled the abortion question? He was pro choice until he decided to run for president.....but no no no, he's clearly not a politician.

He just hasn't taken the time to think through any of his positions. His answers to the editorial boards of the WashPo and NYT are just as revealing and ignorant. Amazingly, he managed to offend the SINGLE position where the pro life and pro choice movement agree.... don't punish the woman. Very difficult to align Planned Parenthood and March of Life. Impressive.

The Juggler

rgambs said:

The Juggler said:

Is it any surprise Trump fumbled the abortion question? He was pro choice until he decided to run for president.....but no no no, he's clearly not a politician.

Well said.


Side note:
The Trump issue is obviously a very frustrating and invasive one, in my 3 years here on the boards this is the first post that I have seen by The Juggler that didn't have any humor to it at all!

haha....well, other than in the sports threads, you might be right.

Gern Blansten

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/rnc-contested-convention-website

LOL

PJ_Soul

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

Is it any surprise Trump fumbled the abortion question? He was pro choice until he decided to run for president.....but no no no, he's clearly not a politician.

He just hasn't taken the time to think through any of his positions. His answers to the editorial boards of the WashPo and NYT are just as revealing and ignorant. Amazingly, he managed to offend the SINGLE position where the pro life and pro choice movement agree.... don't punish the woman. Very difficult to align Planned Parenthood and March of Life. Impressive.

He hasn't taken the time to think through his fake positions for the sake of his brain dead supporters, anyway. He's made his real position as a pro-choicer pretty clear in the past.

cincybearcat

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

Is it any surprise Trump fumbled the abortion question? He was pro choice until he decided to run for president.....but no no no, he's clearly not a politician.

He just hasn't taken the time to think through any of his positions. His answers to the editorial boards of the WashPo and NYT are just as revealing and ignorant. Amazingly, he managed to offend the SINGLE position where the pro life and pro choice movement agree.... don't punish the woman. Very difficult to align Planned Parenthood and March of Life. Impressive.

Which is weird since if it's illegal, why wouldn't the doctor and the person purchasing the service both get arrested?

It's weird that people are up in arms about that statement. It's triple weird he changed his opinion so much.

Trump is an idiot but I have no issue with his first comment on the matter.