2016 Republican Presidential Candidates.

cincybearcat

and it would be awesome if people stopped using the ridiculously overused phrase : the terrorists have already won.....

mrussel1

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

Is it any surprise Trump fumbled the abortion question? He was pro choice until he decided to run for president.....but no no no, he's clearly not a politician.

He just hasn't taken the time to think through any of his positions. His answers to the editorial boards of the WashPo and NYT are just as revealing and ignorant. Amazingly, he managed to offend the SINGLE position where the pro life and pro choice movement agree.... don't punish the woman. Very difficult to align Planned Parenthood and March of Life. Impressive.

Which is weird since if it's illegal, why wouldn't the doctor and the person purchasing the service both get arrested?

It's weird that people are up in arms about that statement. It's triple weird he changed his opinion so much.

Trump is an idiot but I have no issue with his first comment on the matter.

The perspective on the Right for this issue is that they interested in saving babies, not punishing women. They understand that this isn't the typical argument for 'crimes' since you would normally have criminals and accessories: the woman, the doctor, the person who drove her to the clinic, the person who paid for it, etc. It could be a RICO case by the end. But that's not where their interest lies. They do believe in punishing doctors, sort of like putting away the drug dealer but not the user.

The appalling thing to the Right on this comment is that it is totally out of line with anyone in the pro-life movement. And it makes them think that he's either not really pro life, or that his 'conversion' has not led him to study the issue for a minute.

For the record, I'm pro choice, but I'm just relaying the perspective of a serious pro life person.

PJfanwillneverleave1

Trump was asked a standardized question if someone breaks the law should they be punished. No more, no less.
No matter the absurdity of the law in the state it is a law - so yes punishment is warranted.
Don't like it then change the laws.

mrussel1

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

Trump was asked a standardized question if someone breaks the law should they be punished. No more, no less.
No matter the absurdity of the law in the state it is a law - so yes punishment is warranted.
Don't like it then change the laws.

It's not nearly that simple for the pro-life movement. Here is a good quote from the American Conservative Magazine. I would encourage you to read the entire article as it articulate their position rather succinctly. FWIW, it's all hypothetical. There is no law that bans abortion completely in any state:

That while abortion is killing, while it is murder, it is also associated with a situation, pregnancy, that’s unlike any other in human affairs, and as such requires a distinctive legal response. No other potential murderer has his victim inside his body, no other potential murder victim is not in some sense fully physically visible and present to his assailant and the world, no other human person presents herself (initially, in the first trimester) to her potential killer in what amounts to a pre-conscious state. And again: no other human experience is like pregnancy, period, whether or it comes expectedly or not.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/trump-abortion-candidacy/

cincybearcat

I understand the pro-life's position. I just think it's really stupid. And I think this was simply another "gotcha" moment that trump was set up for and his opponents, out of party and in party, are attacking him with. And the public is too stupid to realize that what he said really wasn't wrong at all. As stupid as trump is and as scary as he can be, he is the only reasonable one in this...... Until of course he panicked and changed his opinion

mrussel1

cincybearcat said:

I understand the pro-life's position. I just think it's really stupid. And I think this was simply another "gotcha" moment that trump was set up for and his opponents, out of party and in party, are attacking him with. And the public is too stupid to realize that what he said really wasn't wrong at all. As stupid as trump is and as scary as he can be, he is the only reasonable one in this...... Until of course he panicked and changed his opinion

It was a trap, of course. But it represents two things: To the left, that he may actually think that women should be in jail for this. Otherwise, he would have said so. To the right, that he doesn't take their orthodoxy seriously. He managed to offend both wings with one statement. It's rather astounding. And to me, a moderate, it represents yet another position that he hasn't thought about for more than one minute. You can add that to the list.

PJfanwillneverleave1

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

I understand the pro-life's position. I just think it's really stupid. And I think this was simply another "gotcha" moment that trump was set up for and his opponents, out of party and in party, are attacking him with. And the public is too stupid to realize that what he said really wasn't wrong at all. As stupid as trump is and as scary as he can be, he is the only reasonable one in this...... Until of course he panicked and changed his opinion

It was a trap, of course. But it represents two things: To the left, that he may actually think that women should be in jail for this. Otherwise, he would have said so. To the right, that he doesn't take their orthodoxy seriously. He managed to offend both wings with one statement. It's rather astounding. And to me, a moderate, it represents yet another position that he hasn't thought about for more than one minute. You can add that to the list.

He never said women should be in jail for this at all nor did he imply that. He said there should be some form of punishment for breaking that theoretical law. On the orthodox side I could not care less if those brain dead zombie jebus loving hippies get offended they offend everyone when they speak.
Some people hate Trump but no one articulates why he would be a bad president ever on this train. That is what is rather astounding.

rgambs

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

I understand the pro-life's position. I just think it's really stupid. And I think this was simply another "gotcha" moment that trump was set up for and his opponents, out of party and in party, are attacking him with. And the public is too stupid to realize that what he said really wasn't wrong at all. As stupid as trump is and as scary as he can be, he is the only reasonable one in this...... Until of course he panicked and changed his opinion

It was a trap, of course. But it represents two things: To the left, that he may actually think that women should be in jail for this. Otherwise, he would have said so. To the right, that he doesn't take their orthodoxy seriously. He managed to offend both wings with one statement. It's rather astounding. And to me, a moderate, it represents yet another position that he hasn't thought about for more than one minute. You can add that to the list.

He never said women should be in jail for this at all nor did he imply that. He said there should be some form of punishment for breaking that theoretical law. On the orthodox side I could not care less if those brain dead zombie jebus loving hippies get offended they offend everyone when they speak.
Some people hate Trump but no one articulates why he would be a bad president ever on this train. That is what is rather astounding.

You have demonstrated many times that you don't read posts longer than a few sentences long, perhaps if you did you would find what you think is missing...perhaps you aren't capable of comprehension when you do see it.

Either way, maybe you won't think it's so funny when he threatens Canada with nuclear bombs like he did Europe...then again, if anyone could find that funny it would be our resident bridge-dweller.

mrussel1

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

I understand the pro-life's position. I just think it's really stupid. And I think this was simply another "gotcha" moment that trump was set up for and his opponents, out of party and in party, are attacking him with. And the public is too stupid to realize that what he said really wasn't wrong at all. As stupid as trump is and as scary as he can be, he is the only reasonable one in this...... Until of course he panicked and changed his opinion

It was a trap, of course. But it represents two things: To the left, that he may actually think that women should be in jail for this. Otherwise, he would have said so. To the right, that he doesn't take their orthodoxy seriously. He managed to offend both wings with one statement. It's rather astounding. And to me, a moderate, it represents yet another position that he hasn't thought about for more than one minute. You can add that to the list.

He never said women should be in jail for this at all nor did he imply that. He said there should be some form of punishment for breaking that theoretical law. On the orthodox side I could not care less if those brain dead zombie jebus loving hippies get offended they offend everyone when they speak.
Some people hate Trump but no one articulates why he would be a bad president ever on this train. That is what is rather astounding.

Zombie Jesus loving voters are Americans too, and there's a lot of them whether they are pro life or pro choice. And the POTUS represents all Americans, not just the ones he/she agrees with. So taking a orthodox plank of the party platform seriously is pretty important. And when a candidate doesn't, it shows that they are not taking this deal very seriously.

Gern Blansten

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

I understand the pro-life's position. I just think it's really stupid. And I think this was simply another "gotcha" moment that trump was set up for and his opponents, out of party and in party, are attacking him with. And the public is too stupid to realize that what he said really wasn't wrong at all. As stupid as trump is and as scary as he can be, he is the only reasonable one in this...... Until of course he panicked and changed his opinion

It was a trap, of course. But it represents two things: To the left, that he may actually think that women should be in jail for this. Otherwise, he would have said so. To the right, that he doesn't take their orthodoxy seriously. He managed to offend both wings with one statement. It's rather astounding. And to me, a moderate, it represents yet another position that he hasn't thought about for more than one minute. You can add that to the list.

He never said women should be in jail for this at all nor did he imply that. He said there should be some form of punishment for breaking that theoretical law. On the orthodox side I could not care less if those brain dead zombie jebus loving hippies get offended they offend everyone when they speak.
Some people hate Trump but no one articulates why he would be a bad president ever on this train. That is what is rather astounding.

huh? Punishment for what? In the pro-life mind the crime is murder.

And to answer your other statement....Trump would be a bad president because he is an idiot. Every gaff is evidence of why he would be a bad president. That is discussed plenty on here.

mrussel1

Gern Blansten said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

I understand the pro-life's position. I just think it's really stupid. And I think this was simply another "gotcha" moment that trump was set up for and his opponents, out of party and in party, are attacking him with. And the public is too stupid to realize that what he said really wasn't wrong at all. As stupid as trump is and as scary as he can be, he is the only reasonable one in this...... Until of course he panicked and changed his opinion

It was a trap, of course. But it represents two things: To the left, that he may actually think that women should be in jail for this. Otherwise, he would have said so. To the right, that he doesn't take their orthodoxy seriously. He managed to offend both wings with one statement. It's rather astounding. And to me, a moderate, it represents yet another position that he hasn't thought about for more than one minute. You can add that to the list.

He never said women should be in jail for this at all nor did he imply that. He said there should be some form of punishment for breaking that theoretical law. On the orthodox side I could not care less if those brain dead zombie jebus loving hippies get offended they offend everyone when they speak.
Some people hate Trump but no one articulates why he would be a bad president ever on this train. That is what is rather astounding.

huh? Punishment for what? In the pro-life mind the crime is murder.

It is, but the movement has never advocated for punishing the woman. It's always been for punishment of the provider only. I'm not saying it isn't hypocritical, but above I link to some of their reasoning on the matter.
Again, this would never happen in the US. So the question is an inane hypothetical. But it demonstrates lack of seriousness on the issues.

Gern Blansten

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

I understand the pro-life's position. I just think it's really stupid. And I think this was simply another "gotcha" moment that trump was set up for and his opponents, out of party and in party, are attacking him with. And the public is too stupid to realize that what he said really wasn't wrong at all. As stupid as trump is and as scary as he can be, he is the only reasonable one in this...... Until of course he panicked and changed his opinion

It was a trap, of course. But it represents two things: To the left, that he may actually think that women should be in jail for this. Otherwise, he would have said so. To the right, that he doesn't take their orthodoxy seriously. He managed to offend both wings with one statement. It's rather astounding. And to me, a moderate, it represents yet another position that he hasn't thought about for more than one minute. You can add that to the list.

He never said women should be in jail for this at all nor did he imply that. He said there should be some form of punishment for breaking that theoretical law. On the orthodox side I could not care less if those brain dead zombie jebus loving hippies get offended they offend everyone when they speak.
Some people hate Trump but no one articulates why he would be a bad president ever on this train. That is what is rather astounding.

huh? Punishment for what? In the pro-life mind the crime is murder.

It is, but the movement has never advocated for punishing the woman. It's always been for punishment of the provider only. I'm not saying it isn't hypocritical, but above I link to some of their reasoning on the matter.
Again, this would never happen in the US. So the question is an inane hypothetical. But it demonstrates lack of seriousness on the issues.

Right but Trump suggested that. I don't care that he's walking it back...at the time he was asked he was envisioning punishment for the woman.

PJfanwillneverleave1

rgambs said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

I understand the pro-life's position. I just think it's really stupid. And I think this was simply another "gotcha" moment that trump was set up for and his opponents, out of party and in party, are attacking him with. And the public is too stupid to realize that what he said really wasn't wrong at all. As stupid as trump is and as scary as he can be, he is the only reasonable one in this...... Until of course he panicked and changed his opinion

It was a trap, of course. But it represents two things: To the left, that he may actually think that women should be in jail for this. Otherwise, he would have said so. To the right, that he doesn't take their orthodoxy seriously. He managed to offend both wings with one statement. It's rather astounding. And to me, a moderate, it represents yet another position that he hasn't thought about for more than one minute. You can add that to the list.

He never said women should be in jail for this at all nor did he imply that. He said there should be some form of punishment for breaking that theoretical law. On the orthodox side I could not care less if those brain dead zombie jebus loving hippies get offended they offend everyone when they speak.
Some people hate Trump but no one articulates why he would be a bad president ever on this train. That is what is rather astounding.

You have demonstrated many times that you don't read posts longer than a few sentences long, perhaps if you did you would find what you think is missing...perhaps you aren't capable of comprehension when you do see it.

Either way, maybe you won't think it's so funny when he threatens Canada with nuclear bombs like he did Europe...then again, if anyone could find that funny it would be our resident bridge-dweller.

I have a Trump mind and I don't read or respond to anything that is seemingly designed to insult.
I have no time to play circular games anymore. If you think that other countries don't have their hand over the nuke button then perhaps you can't comprehend the scale at which the POTUS needs to play at.

PJfanwillneverleave1

Gern Blansten said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

I understand the pro-life's position. I just think it's really stupid. And I think this was simply another "gotcha" moment that trump was set up for and his opponents, out of party and in party, are attacking him with. And the public is too stupid to realize that what he said really wasn't wrong at all. As stupid as trump is and as scary as he can be, he is the only reasonable one in this...... Until of course he panicked and changed his opinion

It was a trap, of course. But it represents two things: To the left, that he may actually think that women should be in jail for this. Otherwise, he would have said so. To the right, that he doesn't take their orthodoxy seriously. He managed to offend both wings with one statement. It's rather astounding. And to me, a moderate, it represents yet another position that he hasn't thought about for more than one minute. You can add that to the list.

He never said women should be in jail for this at all nor did he imply that. He said there should be some form of punishment for breaking that theoretical law. On the orthodox side I could not care less if those brain dead zombie jebus loving hippies get offended they offend everyone when they speak.
Some people hate Trump but no one articulates why he would be a bad president ever on this train. That is what is rather astounding.

huh? Punishment for what? In the pro-life mind the crime is murder.

And to answer your other statement....Trump would be a bad president because he is an idiot. Every gaff is evidence of why he would be a bad president. That is discussed plenty on here.

If it was illegal, (stupid as it is) he was saying that yes there should be some form of punishment for breaking the law. That is all he said in regards to the question posed to him.
The law is the law, and I know the peaceful loving libby protesters like to oppose unjustness but it is useless unless they get their pot smoking lazy ass off the couch and into office and actually do something.

PJfanwillneverleave1

mrussel1 said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

I understand the pro-life's position. I just think it's really stupid. And I think this was simply another "gotcha" moment that trump was set up for and his opponents, out of party and in party, are attacking him with. And the public is too stupid to realize that what he said really wasn't wrong at all. As stupid as trump is and as scary as he can be, he is the only reasonable one in this...... Until of course he panicked and changed his opinion

It was a trap, of course. But it represents two things: To the left, that he may actually think that women should be in jail for this. Otherwise, he would have said so. To the right, that he doesn't take their orthodoxy seriously. He managed to offend both wings with one statement. It's rather astounding. And to me, a moderate, it represents yet another position that he hasn't thought about for more than one minute. You can add that to the list.

He never said women should be in jail for this at all nor did he imply that. He said there should be some form of punishment for breaking that theoretical law. On the orthodox side I could not care less if those brain dead zombie jebus loving hippies get offended they offend everyone when they speak.
Some people hate Trump but no one articulates why he would be a bad president ever on this train. That is what is rather astounding.

Zombie Jesus loving voters are Americans too, and there's a lot of them whether they are pro life or pro choice. And the POTUS represents all Americans, not just the ones he/she agrees with. So taking a orthodox plank of the party platform seriously is pretty important. And when a candidate doesn't, it shows that they are not taking this deal very seriously.

Well perhaps you need to examine why politics and religion should ever mix.

mrussel1

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

mrussel1 said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

I understand the pro-life's position. I just think it's really stupid. And I think this was simply another "gotcha" moment that trump was set up for and his opponents, out of party and in party, are attacking him with. And the public is too stupid to realize that what he said really wasn't wrong at all. As stupid as trump is and as scary as he can be, he is the only reasonable one in this...... Until of course he panicked and changed his opinion

It was a trap, of course. But it represents two things: To the left, that he may actually think that women should be in jail for this. Otherwise, he would have said so. To the right, that he doesn't take their orthodoxy seriously. He managed to offend both wings with one statement. It's rather astounding. And to me, a moderate, it represents yet another position that he hasn't thought about for more than one minute. You can add that to the list.

He never said women should be in jail for this at all nor did he imply that. He said there should be some form of punishment for breaking that theoretical law. On the orthodox side I could not care less if those brain dead zombie jebus loving hippies get offended they offend everyone when they speak.
Some people hate Trump but no one articulates why he would be a bad president ever on this train. That is what is rather astounding.

Zombie Jesus loving voters are Americans too, and there's a lot of them whether they are pro life or pro choice. And the POTUS represents all Americans, not just the ones he/she agrees with. So taking a orthodox plank of the party platform seriously is pretty important. And when a candidate doesn't, it shows that they are not taking this deal very seriously.

Well perhaps you need to examine why politics and religion should ever mix.

Can you expand on this? The gov't is forbidden to establish a religion or prefer one religion over another. It's not forbidden from representing the views of someone who is religious.

PJfanwillneverleave1

mrussel1 said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

mrussel1 said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

I understand the pro-life's position. I just think it's really stupid. And I think this was simply another "gotcha" moment that trump was set up for and his opponents, out of party and in party, are attacking him with. And the public is too stupid to realize that what he said really wasn't wrong at all. As stupid as trump is and as scary as he can be, he is the only reasonable one in this...... Until of course he panicked and changed his opinion

It was a trap, of course. But it represents two things: To the left, that he may actually think that women should be in jail for this. Otherwise, he would have said so. To the right, that he doesn't take their orthodoxy seriously. He managed to offend both wings with one statement. It's rather astounding. And to me, a moderate, it represents yet another position that he hasn't thought about for more than one minute. You can add that to the list.

He never said women should be in jail for this at all nor did he imply that. He said there should be some form of punishment for breaking that theoretical law. On the orthodox side I could not care less if those brain dead zombie jebus loving hippies get offended they offend everyone when they speak.
Some people hate Trump but no one articulates why he would be a bad president ever on this train. That is what is rather astounding.

Zombie Jesus loving voters are Americans too, and there's a lot of them whether they are pro life or pro choice. And the POTUS represents all Americans, not just the ones he/she agrees with. So taking a orthodox plank of the party platform seriously is pretty important. And when a candidate doesn't, it shows that they are not taking this deal very seriously.

Well perhaps you need to examine why politics and religion should ever mix.

Can you expand on this? The gov't is forbidden to establish a religion or prefer one religion over another. It's not forbidden from representing the views of someone who is religious.

Either you are religious or not. Representing the views of the other is pretty hypocritical and misleading because it would not be fully genuine.
Sorry a leader of a country should not have a god fearing bone in their body.

Gern Blansten

cincybearcat said:

and it would be awesome if people stopped using the ridiculously overused phrase : the terrorists have already won.....

The phrase I'm getting sick of is "and he/she/they won't say the words Radical Islamic Terrorists"

Cruz is probably the main offender...such a stupid thing to say

PJfanwillneverleave1

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

and it would be awesome if people stopped using the ridiculously overused phrase : the terrorists have already won.....

The phrase I'm getting sick of is "and he/she/they won't say the words Radical Islamic Terrorists"

Cruz is probably the main offender...such a stupid thing to say

What is wrong with wanting a presidential candidate to say that?

mrussel1

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

mrussel1 said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

mrussel1 said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

I understand the pro-life's position. I just think it's really stupid. And I think this was simply another "gotcha" moment that trump was set up for and his opponents, out of party and in party, are attacking him with. And the public is too stupid to realize that what he said really wasn't wrong at all. As stupid as trump is and as scary as he can be, he is the only reasonable one in this...... Until of course he panicked and changed his opinion

It was a trap, of course. But it represents two things: To the left, that he may actually think that women should be in jail for this. Otherwise, he would have said so. To the right, that he doesn't take their orthodoxy seriously. He managed to offend both wings with one statement. It's rather astounding. And to me, a moderate, it represents yet another position that he hasn't thought about for more than one minute. You can add that to the list.

He never said women should be in jail for this at all nor did he imply that. He said there should be some form of punishment for breaking that theoretical law. On the orthodox side I could not care less if those brain dead zombie jebus loving hippies get offended they offend everyone when they speak.
Some people hate Trump but no one articulates why he would be a bad president ever on this train. That is what is rather astounding.

Zombie Jesus loving voters are Americans too, and there's a lot of them whether they are pro life or pro choice. And the POTUS represents all Americans, not just the ones he/she agrees with. So taking a orthodox plank of the party platform seriously is pretty important. And when a candidate doesn't, it shows that they are not taking this deal very seriously.

Well perhaps you need to examine why politics and religion should ever mix.

Can you expand on this? The gov't is forbidden to establish a religion or prefer one religion over another. It's not forbidden from representing the views of someone who is religious.

Either you are religious or not. Representing the views of the other is pretty hypocritical and misleading because it would not be fully genuine.
Sorry a leader of a country should not have a god fearing bone in their body.

So you are implicitly bringing up an important question here. Do you feel that an elected official only represents the people that voted for him/her? By contrast, Sanders said he voted against the Brady Bill in the 90s several times because that's the view of his constituency in VT, not because he didn't agree with the bill. That's sort of the opposite view.