And going back historically, it's generally thought that the parties are split 40/40 with the rest independent, disinterested, unaffiliated, etc. That's why I say he has 35 of the 40%
As of a couple years ago, independents or unaffiliated are 43% of the electorate. According to Pew.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
@LukeRussert: Significant ISIS inspired terrorist attack in Europe and the top two contenders on the #GOP side are fighting over their wives on Twitter.
And going back historically, it's generally thought that the parties are split 40/40 with the rest independent, disinterested, unaffiliated, etc. That's why I say he has 35 of the 40%
As of a couple years ago, independents or unaffiliated are 43% of the electorate. According to Pew. I've seen that number too but I think it includes people that lean heavy in one direction or are on the extremes of the party. I don't believe that in 2012 43% of the electorate were open season for Obama or Romney coming out of the conventions. The numbers were firm and it was about turnout. Here is an interesting analysis.
^^^ Never has there been a press so engaged as to report %1 poll results and call a win.
That's not true. It means the exit polls are overwhelming. They could have called it two hours ago likely but after FL in 2000, they wait until closing.
^^^ Never has there been a press so engaged as to report %1 poll results and call a win.
That's not true. It means the exit polls are overwhelming. They could have called it two hours ago likely but after FL in 2000, they wait until closing.
There are some rational items in the Trump tax plan but the very important piece is... where does the 'very rich' start, in light of the phasing out of the deductions? If you start phasing out deductions at 200k while reducing the top rate to 25%, that actually will put a tremendous new financial burden on the middle class that lives on the coasts or Chicago where the cost of living is very high.
Second, without getting into the whole, we definitely should eliminate AMT. That's such bullshit today, considering it was established in the 60's I believe.
One new tax that I agree with on the Hillary plan, is taxing the high speed traders. I don't agree with Bernie's plan to tax all trades. That will hit anyone with a pension, 401k, IRA, etc.
Obviously you don't care to remember or learned how it was before the Reagan era? Read up!
Sure lets go back in time then when rates where lower then even today - don't cherry pick when rates were higher. Yeah lets go back to 90% percent taxes as it doesn't effect me - so I think its fair!
Obviously you don't care to remember or learned how it was before the Reagan era? Read up!
Sure lets go back in time then when rates where lower then even today - don't cherry pick when rates were higher. Yeah lets go back to 90% percent taxes as it doesn't effect me - so I think its fair!
Right.. the 'malaise' period of the Carter administration.. Energy crisis, runaway inflation, etc. Let's campaign on that one.
Obviously you don't care to remember or learned how it was before the Reagan era? Read up!
Sure lets go back in time then when rates where lower then even today - don't cherry pick when rates were higher. Yeah lets go back to 90% percent taxes as it doesn't effect me - so I think its fair!
Right.. the 'malaise' period of the Carter administration.. Energy crisis, runaway inflation, etc. Let's campaign on that one.
Right! That was so much fun! Waiting in lines for gas hoping there'd be some when you got to the pumps, Some states rationing gas (odd/even license plates). Double digit interest rates, double digit inflation. Good times! History has been kind to Carter because he's an amazing elder statesman and a genuinely great person, but his presidency was a fucking disaster. Free's nostalgia sounds like Trump. Make America great again!
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Obviously you don't care to remember or learned how it was before the Reagan era? Read up!
Sure lets go back in time then when rates where lower then even today - don't cherry pick when rates were higher. Yeah lets go back to 90% percent taxes as it doesn't effect me - so I think its fair!
Right.. the 'malaise' period of the Carter administration.. Energy crisis, runaway inflation, etc. Let's campaign on that one.
Right! That was so much fun! Waiting in lines for gas hoping there'd be some when you got to the pumps, Some states rationing gas (odd/even license plates). Double digit interest rates, double digit inflation. Good times! History has been kind to Carter because he's an amazing elder statesman and a genuinely great person, but his presidency was a fucking disaster. Free's nostalgia sounds like Trump. Make America great again!
And the worst part... taking Mustangs and Camaros from the awesome muscle cars into the giant vagina vehicles they were in the 70's... 4 cylinder engines, etc. It was a catastrophe!
we all hate ISIS....OK? hillary hates ISIS. bernie (i hope) hates ISIS. I hate ISIS.
but, "carpet bombing" (like they all hang out together) and/or saturating muslim neighborhoods won't work. don't let these tough talkers fool you. they have no real plan.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
we all hate ISIS....OK? hillary hates ISIS. bernie (i hope) hates ISIS. I hate ISIS.
but, "carpet bombing" (like they all hang out together) and/or saturating muslim neighborhoods won't work. don't let these tough talkers fool you. they have no real plan.
just saying, Ted's shit sounds good but it won't work.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Obviously you don't care to remember or learned how it was before the Reagan era? Read up!
Sure lets go back in time then when rates where lower then even today - don't cherry pick when rates were higher. Yeah lets go back to 90% percent taxes as it doesn't effect me - so I think its fair!
Right.. the 'malaise' period of the Carter administration.. Energy crisis, runaway inflation, etc. Let's campaign on that one.
Right! That was so much fun! Waiting in lines for gas hoping there'd be some when you got to the pumps, Some states rationing gas (odd/even license plates). Double digit interest rates, double digit inflation. Good times! History has been kind to Carter because he's an amazing elder statesman and a genuinely great person, but his presidency was a fucking disaster. Free's nostalgia sounds like Trump. Make America great again!
Every time Carter's presidency gets a bad rap I recommend Andrew Bacevich's book Limits of Power. I wish just once some of the Carter detractors would read that book and tell me what they think.
History does not always project and objective viewpoint. Besides, I would argue that the waiting in line for gas etc. (which all of us who adults at that time had to put up with) was not all a bad thing. We have taken gasoline for granted for 100 years as if there was no end to it, and in more recent years most of us are shielded from what happens in order to procure it. We also neatly tend to forget the impact burning all that gas is having on our planet, our only home. So during that era of gas lines and only being able to gas up every other day, guess what happened? People drove few miles. People began to car pool. Car companies began to produce more fuel efficient cars. These were not bad things at all!
In any case, some of Bacevich's views are expressed in this interview by Bill Moyers:
"ANDREW BACEVICH: Well, I would be one of the first to confess that - I think that we have misunderstood and underestimated President Carter. He was the one President of our time who recognized, I think, the challenges awaiting us if we refused to get our house in order. "
"BILL MOYERS: You're the only author I have read, since I read Jimmy Carter, who gives so much time to the President's speech on July 15th, 1979. Why does that speech speak to you so strongly?
ANDREW BACEVICH: Well, this is the so-called Malaise Speech, even though he never used the word "malaise" in the text to the address. It's a very powerful speech, I think, because President Carter says in that speech, oil, our dependence on oil, poses a looming threat to the country. If we act now, we may be able to fix this problem. If we don't act now, we're headed down a path in which not only will we become increasingly dependent upon foreign oil, but we will have opted for a false model of freedom. A freedom of materialism, a freedom of self-indulgence, a freedom of collective recklessness. And what the President was saying at the time was, we need to think about what we mean by freedom. We need to choose a definition of freedom which is anchored in truth, and the way to manifest that choice, is by addressing our energy problem.
He had a profound understanding of the dilemma facing the country in the post Vietnam period. And of course, he was completely hooted, derided, disregarded."
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,312
Is it any surprise Trump fumbled the abortion question? He was pro choice until he decided to run for president.....but no no no, he's clearly not a politician.
Is it any surprise Trump fumbled the abortion question? He was pro choice until he decided to run for president.....but no no no, he's clearly not a politician.
Well said.
Side note: The Trump issue is obviously a very frustrating and invasive one, in my 3 years here on the boards this is the first post that I have seen by The Juggler that didn't have any humor to it at all!
Obviously you don't care to remember or learned how it was before the Reagan era? Read up!
Sure lets go back in time then when rates where lower then even today - don't cherry pick when rates were higher. Yeah lets go back to 90% percent taxes as it doesn't effect me - so I think its fair!
Right.. the 'malaise' period of the Carter administration.. Energy crisis, runaway inflation, etc. Let's campaign on that one.
Right! That was so much fun! Waiting in lines for gas hoping there'd be some when you got to the pumps, Some states rationing gas (odd/even license plates). Double digit interest rates, double digit inflation. Good times! History has been kind to Carter because he's an amazing elder statesman and a genuinely great person, but his presidency was a fucking disaster. Free's nostalgia sounds like Trump. Make America great again!
Every time Carter's presidency gets a bad rap I recommend Andrew Bacevich's book Limits of Power. I wish just once some of the Carter detractors would read that book and tell me what they think.
History does not always project and objective viewpoint. Besides, I would argue that the waiting in line for gas etc. (which all of us who adults at that time had to put up with) was not all a bad thing. We have taken gasoline for granted for 100 years as if there was no end to it, and in more recent years most of us are shielded from what happens in order to procure it. We also neatly tend to forget the impact burning all that gas is having on our planet, our only home. So during that era of gas lines and only being able to gas up every other day, guess what happened? People drove few miles. People began to car pool. Car companies began to produce more fuel efficient cars. These were not bad things at all!
In any case, some of Bacevich's views are expressed in this interview by Bill Moyers:
"ANDREW BACEVICH: Well, I would be one of the first to confess that - I think that we have misunderstood and underestimated President Carter. He was the one President of our time who recognized, I think, the challenges awaiting us if we refused to get our house in order. "
"BILL MOYERS: You're the only author I have read, since I read Jimmy Carter, who gives so much time to the President's speech on July 15th, 1979. Why does that speech speak to you so strongly?
ANDREW BACEVICH: Well, this is the so-called Malaise Speech, even though he never used the word "malaise" in the text to the address. It's a very powerful speech, I think, because President Carter says in that speech, oil, our dependence on oil, poses a looming threat to the country. If we act now, we may be able to fix this problem. If we don't act now, we're headed down a path in which not only will we become increasingly dependent upon foreign oil, but we will have opted for a false model of freedom. A freedom of materialism, a freedom of self-indulgence, a freedom of collective recklessness. And what the President was saying at the time was, we need to think about what we mean by freedom. We need to choose a definition of freedom which is anchored in truth, and the way to manifest that choice, is by addressing our energy problem.
He had a profound understanding of the dilemma facing the country in the post Vietnam period. And of course, he was completely hooted, derided, disregarded."
All true Brian. And Carter was most certainly a good man and a smart man. Circumstances dealt him a bad hand. He took over in a very bad time for a lot of different reasons. Unfortunately he probably had the wrong disposition for that period. We probably needed someone a bit more inspirational. That wasn't really Carter's oral forte.
Is it any surprise Trump fumbled the abortion question? He was pro choice until he decided to run for president.....but no no no, he's clearly not a politician.
He just hasn't taken the time to think through any of his positions. His answers to the editorial boards of the WashPo and NYT are just as revealing and ignorant. Amazingly, he managed to offend the SINGLE position where the pro life and pro choice movement agree.... don't punish the woman. Very difficult to align Planned Parenthood and March of Life. Impressive.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,312
Is it any surprise Trump fumbled the abortion question? He was pro choice until he decided to run for president.....but no no no, he's clearly not a politician.
Well said.
Side note: The Trump issue is obviously a very frustrating and invasive one, in my 3 years here on the boards this is the first post that I have seen by The Juggler that didn't have any humor to it at all!
haha....well, other than in the sports threads, you might be right.
Is it any surprise Trump fumbled the abortion question? He was pro choice until he decided to run for president.....but no no no, he's clearly not a politician.
He just hasn't taken the time to think through any of his positions. His answers to the editorial boards of the WashPo and NYT are just as revealing and ignorant. Amazingly, he managed to offend the SINGLE position where the pro life and pro choice movement agree.... don't punish the woman. Very difficult to align Planned Parenthood and March of Life. Impressive.
He hasn't taken the time to think through his fake positions for the sake of his brain dead supporters, anyway. He's made his real position as a pro-choicer pretty clear in the past.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Is it any surprise Trump fumbled the abortion question? He was pro choice until he decided to run for president.....but no no no, he's clearly not a politician.
He just hasn't taken the time to think through any of his positions. His answers to the editorial boards of the WashPo and NYT are just as revealing and ignorant. Amazingly, he managed to offend the SINGLE position where the pro life and pro choice movement agree.... don't punish the woman. Very difficult to align Planned Parenthood and March of Life. Impressive.
Which is weird since if it's illegal, why wouldn't the doctor and the person purchasing the service both get arrested?
It's weird that people are up in arms about that statement. It's triple weird he changed his opinion so much.
Trump is an idiot but I have no issue with his first comment on the matter.
Comments
are you really that terrified of muslims that you would suspend their constitutionally guaranteed rights?
if you are, then the terrorists have already won.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I've seen that number too but I think it includes people that lean heavy in one direction or are on the extremes of the party. I don't believe that in 2012 43% of the electorate were open season for Obama or Romney coming out of the conventions. The numbers were firm and it was about turnout. Here is an interesting analysis.
http://republic3-0.com/myth-independent-voter-stefan-hankin/
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Never has there been a press so engaged as to report %1 poll results and call a win.
I like this plan - some people today pay more then 1/2 their incomes in taxes that is too much IMO.
SHOW COUNT: (149) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=89, US=109, CAN=15, Europe=19 ,New Zealand=2, Australia=2
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
Upcoming: Sacramento, Vegas x2, Manchester, London, Chicago x2, NYC x2, Fenway x2, Aucklandx2, Gold Coast, Melbournex2
There are some rational items in the Trump tax plan but the very important piece is... where does the 'very rich' start, in light of the phasing out of the deductions? If you start phasing out deductions at 200k while reducing the top rate to 25%, that actually will put a tremendous new financial burden on the middle class that lives on the coasts or Chicago where the cost of living is very high.
Second, without getting into the whole, we definitely should eliminate AMT. That's such bullshit today, considering it was established in the 60's I believe.
One new tax that I agree with on the Hillary plan, is taxing the high speed traders. I don't agree with Bernie's plan to tax all trades. That will hit anyone with a pension, 401k, IRA, etc.
SHOW COUNT: (149) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=89, US=109, CAN=15, Europe=19 ,New Zealand=2, Australia=2
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
Upcoming: Sacramento, Vegas x2, Manchester, London, Chicago x2, NYC x2, Fenway x2, Aucklandx2, Gold Coast, Melbournex2
but, "carpet bombing" (like they all hang out together) and/or saturating muslim neighborhoods won't work. don't let these tough talkers fool you. they have no real plan.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Feel better?
just saying, Ted's shit sounds good but it won't work.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
History does not always project and objective viewpoint. Besides, I would argue that the waiting in line for gas etc. (which all of us who adults at that time had to put up with) was not all a bad thing. We have taken gasoline for granted for 100 years as if there was no end to it, and in more recent years most of us are shielded from what happens in order to procure it. We also neatly tend to forget the impact burning all that gas is having on our planet, our only home. So during that era of gas lines and only being able to gas up every other day, guess what happened? People drove few miles. People began to car pool. Car companies began to produce more fuel efficient cars. These were not bad things at all!
In any case, some of Bacevich's views are expressed in this interview by Bill Moyers:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08152008/transcript1.html
"ANDREW BACEVICH: Well, I would be one of the first to confess that - I think that we have misunderstood and underestimated President Carter. He was the one President of our time who recognized, I think, the challenges awaiting us if we refused to get our house in order. "
"BILL MOYERS: You're the only author I have read, since I read Jimmy Carter, who gives so much time to the President's speech on July 15th, 1979. Why does that speech speak to you so strongly?
ANDREW BACEVICH: Well, this is the so-called Malaise Speech, even though he never used the word "malaise" in the text to the address. It's a very powerful speech, I think, because President Carter says in that speech, oil, our dependence on oil, poses a looming threat to the country. If we act now, we may be able to fix this problem. If we don't act now, we're headed down a path in which not only will we become increasingly dependent upon foreign oil, but we will have opted for a false model of freedom. A freedom of materialism, a freedom of self-indulgence, a freedom of collective recklessness. And what the President was saying at the time was, we need to think about what we mean by freedom. We need to choose a definition of freedom which is anchored in truth, and the way to manifest that choice, is by addressing our energy problem.
He had a profound understanding of the dilemma facing the country in the post Vietnam period. And of course, he was completely hooted, derided, disregarded."
Side note:
The Trump issue is obviously a very frustrating and invasive one, in my 3 years here on the boards this is the first post that I have seen by The Juggler that didn't have any humor to it at all!
LOL
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
It's weird that people are up in arms about that statement. It's triple weird he changed his opinion so much.
Trump is an idiot but I have no issue with his first comment on the matter.