I guess you're wrong, because I veer hard left, and I get belittled and ganged up on all the time around here (as I guess you would know!). I just don't bitch and whine about it constantly.
I don't actually think anybody bitches and moans about it as you like to consistently frame it.
Pointing out the inevitable trend of discourse that follows once someone offers something unpopular is hardly bitching as much as it is making a point regarding inherent tendencies that, quite frankly, make this place kind of shitty at times.
I've seen the same tactic by the 'left' (using your terminology) multiple times, yet have never seen you become indignant for it. Look at the gun threads which you frequent: I can't begin to recall the amount of times people have said, "Prepare for the inevitable if only someone there had a gun" comment... or "Cue the more people die by cars" comment.
How many extreme right people have you seen banned on here? I seriously can't think of any off the top of my head. I can think of numerous extreme left people that have been banned. Why is that? Is it because moderators are right wing and cannot tolerate the left attitudes... or is it because perhaps the tendency to attack with ruthlessness rests within the left contingency?
I think you know me and I'm not deliberately trying to polarize the community any more than what it already is. I think I probably rest right of the middle given my strong stance on crime and punishment... but I have been very vocal for many significant left ideals at the same time.
I'm not picking sides is what I'm saying here: I'm only supporting the right to voice your side without getting habitually shit on (extreme positions- which almost beg for an attack- aside).
bootlegger, for whatever it's worth, I don't think you're coming from a place of malice from what I've read. Seems pretty decent and straightforward from here.
bruce is a male not a female. he dresses as a woman. he may be feminine. he may take meds that enhance his breasts. dude's a guy w/ a samurai sword in his pocket. his innerness may feel womanly & that's fine & stuff. bruce isn't a full on woman at all & never will be. i am sorry but that's the way it is.
Brace yourself for the volley of eggs and rotten tomatoes.
I'm getting a bit sick of this line. Is that Victim thread still open?
In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics. To summarise:
Sorry. I pasted the wrong thing....something I was looking at earlier.
This is more clear.
The distinction between sex and gender differentiates sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity).[1][2] In some circumstances, an individual's assigned sex and gender do not align, and the person may be transgender,[1] or intersex.
The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably.[3][4] Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions while others do not.
Among scientists, the term sex differences (as compared to gender differences) is typically applied to sexually dimorphic traits that are hypothesized to be evolved consequences of sexual selection.[5][6]
Society has to make up our mind how to identify people Male, Female or Transgender
They are simply men and women born with the wrong bodies.
So we should just identify them as that? - "born with the wrong body"? Do you know how belittling that suggestion is? Male, Female or Transgender, simple.
No, you identify them as whatever they with to be identified as. What's belittling? No idea what you mean. That transgendered people feel like they were born with the wrong body is basically the defining feature of being transgendered.
OK, so Bruce Jenner was a man, married, has kids and loves women and was heterosexual.
Now Bruce is Caitlyn, has boobs, his man parts, still loves women and is now a woman...
So is she a lesbian now?
I don't know. Who cares? I don't see how that makes any difference.
Why comment if you don't care then?
I thought it was an interesting question to ask...
I think part of the point is that we as a society seem to have this obsession with labelling everything, which is part of the problem. are you hetero? homo? bi?
how about "I'm just me"?
No, we have a gutless society that placates to the extreme minority. Transgender is not normal. We don't have an obsession with labeling. We just know that people are born male and female. Whether one has a chemical imbalance in the brain shouldn't add a third gender type.
Are people like Jenner bad people? No, of course not. Should they be treated with respect? Of course. But should society have to adapt to them based on their decisions about their bodies? I don't think so.
Kinda like how being gay isn't normal? I wouldn't expect a post like this in 2015......blast from the past man.
Seriously. Is it 1991 again?
This board is so predictable. I went out of my way to say I had nothing against transgender people and get treated like a devil and someone who is going to discriminate like segregation. If anyone has any links to message boards that allow differing opinions let me know.
Yes, you very clearly stated that you have nothing against abnormal people who have chemical imbalances in their brain. We all got that.
I think we all would agree that the majority of people are born male or female and do not have urges to switch genders. It may be more than 1 in a million but it certainly isn't prevalent. So, what causes someone like Bruce Jenner to want to switch sexes? If it isn't a chemical imbalance it is something else that didn't develop normally. I didn't mean chemical imbalance as an attack but literally something genetically happened that it is causing this.
That is why I clearly went on to say that I wasn't attacking trans people but just trying to make a point we shouldn't abandon gender classifications. That is what I thought the poster ahead of me was indicating or referencing.
And clearly I indicated that it wasn't someone's choice but genetics, so you can put down the pitchforks.
It is exactly that. For example: Around 1 in 600 "males" are born with Klinefelter Syndrome, giving them an XXY chromosomal configuration, in most cases.
For those who are uneducated about gender and sex issues, do some reading, it might open your mind a bit.
There is lots of talk of "abnormalities, syndromes, mutations, imbalances and disorders" in these studies.
Klinefelter Syndrome Klinefelter syndrome (47XXY or XY/XXY mosaic) with male phenotype is the most pervasive sex chromosomal anomaly (26) affecting approximately 1:600 males. (27) Males with Klinefelter syndrome carry two or more X chromosomes which results in abnormal development of the testis, leading to hypogonadism and infertility. (28) Affected individuals are often tall and produce relatively small amounts of testosterone. As a result of this hormone imbalance, affected males have incompletely developed secondary male sex characteristics.
I read through most of this and learned lots of new words that I had to research that's for sure.
I guess you're wrong, because I veer hard left, and I get belittled and ganged up on all the time around here (as I guess you would know!). I just don't bitch and whine about it constantly.
I don't actually think anybody bitches and moans about it as you like to consistently frame it.
Pointing out the inevitable trend of discourse that follows once someone offers something unpopular is hardly bitching as much as it is making a point regarding inherent tendencies that, quite frankly, make this place kind of shitty at times.
I've seen the same tactic by the 'left' (using your terminology) multiple times, yet have never seen you become indignant for it. Look at the gun threads which you frequent: I can't begin to recall the amount of times people have said, "Prepare for the inevitable if only someone there had a gun" comment... or "Cue the more people die by cars" comment.
How many extreme right people have you seen banned on here? I seriously can't think of any off the top of my head. I can think of numerous extreme left people that have been banned. Why is that? Is it because moderators are right wing and cannot tolerate the left attitudes... or is it because perhaps the tendency to attack with ruthlessness rests within the left contingency?
I think you know me and I'm not deliberately trying to polarize the community any more than what it already is. I think I probably rest right of the middle given my strong stance on crime and punishment... but I have been very vocal for many significant left ideals at the same time.
I'm not picking sides is what I'm saying here: I'm only supporting the right to voice your side without getting habitually shit on (extreme positions- which almost beg for an attack- aside).
I am indignant about the hypocrisy, not the tactic. Yeah, lots of people pull that trick (it's tedious, but whatever) But the point is that people who do it themselves are repeatedly acting like victims of bias when it's done to them. And worse, acting like victims of plain old disdain, when the are regularly disdainful towards others.
A lot of extreme right people have been banned. Where people are on the political spectrum has nothing to do with that - it's been all over the board.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I guess you're wrong, because I veer hard left, and I get belittled and ganged up on all the time around here (as I guess you would know!). I just don't bitch and whine about it constantly.
I don't actually think anybody bitches and moans about it as you like to consistently frame it.
Pointing out the inevitable trend of discourse that follows once someone offers something unpopular is hardly bitching as much as it is making a point regarding inherent tendencies that, quite frankly, make this place kind of shitty at times.
I've seen the same tactic by the 'left' (using your terminology) multiple times, yet have never seen you become indignant for it. Look at the gun threads which you frequent: I can't begin to recall the amount of times people have said, "Prepare for the inevitable if only someone there had a gun" comment... or "Cue the more people die by cars" comment.
How many extreme right people have you seen banned on here? I seriously can't think of any off the top of my head. I can think of numerous extreme left people that have been banned. Why is that? Is it because moderators are right wing and cannot tolerate the left attitudes... or is it because perhaps the tendency to attack with ruthlessness rests within the left contingency?
I think you know me and I'm not deliberately trying to polarize the community any more than what it already is. I think I probably rest right of the middle given my strong stance on crime and punishment... but I have been very vocal for many significant left ideals at the same time.
I'm not picking sides is what I'm saying here: I'm only supporting the right to voice your side without getting habitually shit on (extreme positions- which almost beg for an attack- aside).
I am indignant about the hypocrisy, not the tactic. Yeah, lots of people pull that trick (it's tedious, but whatever) But the point is that people who do it themselves are repeatedly acting like victims of bias when it's done to them. And worse, acting like victims of plain old disdain, when the are regularly disdainful towards others.
A lot of extreme right people have been banned. Where people are on the political spectrum has nothing to do with that - it's been all over the board.
Really? Who?
I can seriously think of very prominent lefties, but am challenged to think of any rightie.
The one that keeps popping in my head is Unsung- but he simply walked away: tired of the stuff I'm getting at.It was rare when I agreed with him, but he was a very important voice here.
I guess you're wrong, because I veer hard left, and I get belittled and ganged up on all the time around here (as I guess you would know!). I just don't bitch and whine about it constantly.
I don't actually think anybody bitches and moans about it as you like to consistently frame it.
Pointing out the inevitable trend of discourse that follows once someone offers something unpopular is hardly bitching as much as it is making a point regarding inherent tendencies that, quite frankly, make this place kind of shitty at times.
I've seen the same tactic by the 'left' (using your terminology) multiple times, yet have never seen you become indignant for it. Look at the gun threads which you frequent: I can't begin to recall the amount of times people have said, "Prepare for the inevitable if only someone there had a gun" comment... or "Cue the more people die by cars" comment.
How many extreme right people have you seen banned on here? I seriously can't think of any off the top of my head. I can think of numerous extreme left people that have been banned. Why is that? Is it because moderators are right wing and cannot tolerate the left attitudes... or is it because perhaps the tendency to attack with ruthlessness rests within the left contingency?
I think you know me and I'm not deliberately trying to polarize the community any more than what it already is. I think I probably rest right of the middle given my strong stance on crime and punishment... but I have been very vocal for many significant left ideals at the same time.
I'm not picking sides is what I'm saying here: I'm only supporting the right to voice your side without getting habitually shit on (extreme positions- which almost beg for an attack- aside).
I am indignant about the hypocrisy, not the tactic. Yeah, lots of people pull that trick (it's tedious, but whatever) But the point is that people who do it themselves are repeatedly acting like victims of bias when it's done to them. And worse, acting like victims of plain old disdain, when the are regularly disdainful towards others.
A lot of extreme right people have been banned. Where people are on the political spectrum has nothing to do with that - it's been all over the board.
Really? Who?
I can seriously think of very prominent lefties, but am challenged to think of any rightie.
The one that keeps popping in my head is Unsung- but he simply walked away: tired of the stuff I'm getting at.It was rare when I agreed with him, but he was a very important voice here.
I agree. I know of five people banned and all tipped the scales towards the left.
I guess you're wrong, because I veer hard left, and I get belittled and ganged up on all the time around here (as I guess you would know!). I just don't bitch and whine about it constantly.
I don't actually think anybody bitches and moans about it as you like to consistently frame it.
Pointing out the inevitable trend of discourse that follows once someone offers something unpopular is hardly bitching as much as it is making a point regarding inherent tendencies that, quite frankly, make this place kind of shitty at times.
I've seen the same tactic by the 'left' (using your terminology) multiple times, yet have never seen you become indignant for it. Look at the gun threads which you frequent: I can't begin to recall the amount of times people have said, "Prepare for the inevitable if only someone there had a gun" comment... or "Cue the more people die by cars" comment.
How many extreme right people have you seen banned on here? I seriously can't think of any off the top of my head. I can think of numerous extreme left people that have been banned. Why is that? Is it because moderators are right wing and cannot tolerate the left attitudes... or is it because perhaps the tendency to attack with ruthlessness rests within the left contingency?
I think you know me and I'm not deliberately trying to polarize the community any more than what it already is. I think I probably rest right of the middle given my strong stance on crime and punishment... but I have been very vocal for many significant left ideals at the same time.
I'm not picking sides is what I'm saying here: I'm only supporting the right to voice your side without getting habitually shit on (extreme positions- which almost beg for an attack- aside).
I am indignant about the hypocrisy, not the tactic. Yeah, lots of people pull that trick (it's tedious, but whatever) But the point is that people who do it themselves are repeatedly acting like victims of bias when it's done to them. And worse, acting like victims of plain old disdain, when the are regularly disdainful towards others.
A lot of extreme right people have been banned. Where people are on the political spectrum has nothing to do with that - it's been all over the board.
Really? Who?
I can seriously think of very prominent lefties, but am challenged to think of any rightie.
The one that keeps popping in my head is Unsung- but he simply walked away: tired of the stuff I'm getting at.It was rare when I agreed with him, but he was a very important voice here.
I say this in all seriousness: I feel like the lefties are held to some higher standard here. The righties seem to be able to say and do whatever the fuck they want with nary a slap. The lefties get time outs and bans for less than the same. I have seen it all over this board over the years. it has happened to me. PM from a mod saying I was getting a time out for responding to a troll (defending myself against a personal attack, no less). The troll got nothing. I got a time out. More than once.
But also consider that this board is made up of probably 80% left, 10% moderate, and 10% right. You need to look at proportions of who gets banned, not the numbers.
I guess you're wrong, because I veer hard left, and I get belittled and ganged up on all the time around here (as I guess you would know!). I just don't bitch and whine about it constantly.
I don't actually think anybody bitches and moans about it as you like to consistently frame it.
Pointing out the inevitable trend of discourse that follows once someone offers something unpopular is hardly bitching as much as it is making a point regarding inherent tendencies that, quite frankly, make this place kind of shitty at times.
I've seen the same tactic by the 'left' (using your terminology) multiple times, yet have never seen you become indignant for it. Look at the gun threads which you frequent: I can't begin to recall the amount of times people have said, "Prepare for the inevitable if only someone there had a gun" comment... or "Cue the more people die by cars" comment.
How many extreme right people have you seen banned on here? I seriously can't think of any off the top of my head. I can think of numerous extreme left people that have been banned. Why is that? Is it because moderators are right wing and cannot tolerate the left attitudes... or is it because perhaps the tendency to attack with ruthlessness rests within the left contingency?
I think you know me and I'm not deliberately trying to polarize the community any more than what it already is. I think I probably rest right of the middle given my strong stance on crime and punishment... but I have been very vocal for many significant left ideals at the same time.
I'm not picking sides is what I'm saying here: I'm only supporting the right to voice your side without getting habitually shit on (extreme positions- which almost beg for an attack- aside).
I am indignant about the hypocrisy, not the tactic. Yeah, lots of people pull that trick (it's tedious, but whatever) But the point is that people who do it themselves are repeatedly acting like victims of bias when it's done to them. And worse, acting like victims of plain old disdain, when the are regularly disdainful towards others.
A lot of extreme right people have been banned. Where people are on the political spectrum has nothing to do with that - it's been all over the board.
Really? Who?
I can seriously think of very prominent lefties, but am challenged to think of any rightie.
The one that keeps popping in my head is Unsung- but he simply walked away: tired of the stuff I'm getting at.It was rare when I agreed with him, but he was a very important voice here.
I say this in all seriousness: I feel like the lefties are held to some higher standard here. The righties seem to be able to say and do whatever the fuck they want with nary a slap. The lefties get time outs and bans for less than the same. I have seen it all over this board over the years. it has happened to me. PM from a mod saying I was getting a time out for responding to a troll (defending myself against a personal attack, no less). The troll got nothing. I got a time out. More than once.
But also consider that this board is made up of probably 80% left, 10% moderate, and 10% right. You need to look at proportions of who gets banned, not the numbers.
anyway, back on the rails.....
In light of my assertion, those numbers can't be left to stand, Hugh. They're speculatory and a hunch.
I'm not sure about the higher standard item either. Using the current example... Unsung was exceptionally patient until, almost with a sigh, he lost patience and bowed out. He never went down in a flame of glory- lashing out at his opponents like I have seen from others who have been banned while propping up the left position.
I guess you're wrong, because I veer hard left, and I get belittled and ganged up on all the time around here (as I guess you would know!). I just don't bitch and whine about it constantly.
I don't actually think anybody bitches and moans about it as you like to consistently frame it.
Pointing out the inevitable trend of discourse that follows once someone offers something unpopular is hardly bitching as much as it is making a point regarding inherent tendencies that, quite frankly, make this place kind of shitty at times.
I've seen the same tactic by the 'left' (using your terminology) multiple times, yet have never seen you become indignant for it. Look at the gun threads which you frequent: I can't begin to recall the amount of times people have said, "Prepare for the inevitable if only someone there had a gun" comment... or "Cue the more people die by cars" comment.
How many extreme right people have you seen banned on here? I seriously can't think of any off the top of my head. I can think of numerous extreme left people that have been banned. Why is that? Is it because moderators are right wing and cannot tolerate the left attitudes... or is it because perhaps the tendency to attack with ruthlessness rests within the left contingency?
I think you know me and I'm not deliberately trying to polarize the community any more than what it already is. I think I probably rest right of the middle given my strong stance on crime and punishment... but I have been very vocal for many significant left ideals at the same time.
I'm not picking sides is what I'm saying here: I'm only supporting the right to voice your side without getting habitually shit on (extreme positions- which almost beg for an attack- aside).
I am indignant about the hypocrisy, not the tactic. Yeah, lots of people pull that trick (it's tedious, but whatever) But the point is that people who do it themselves are repeatedly acting like victims of bias when it's done to them. And worse, acting like victims of plain old disdain, when the are regularly disdainful towards others.
A lot of extreme right people have been banned. Where people are on the political spectrum has nothing to do with that - it's been all over the board.
Really? Who?
I can seriously think of very prominent lefties, but am challenged to think of any rightie.
The one that keeps popping in my head is Unsung- but he simply walked away: tired of the stuff I'm getting at.It was rare when I agreed with him, but he was a very important voice here.
I say this in all seriousness: I feel like the lefties are held to some higher standard here. The righties seem to be able to say and do whatever the fuck they want with nary a slap. The lefties get time outs and bans for less than the same. I have seen it all over this board over the years. it has happened to me. PM from a mod saying I was getting a time out for responding to a troll (defending myself against a personal attack, no less). The troll got nothing. I got a time out. More than once.
But also consider that this board is made up of probably 80% left, 10% moderate, and 10% right. You need to look at proportions of who gets banned, not the numbers.
anyway, back on the rails.....
In light of my assertion, those numbers can't be left to stand, Hugh. They're speculatory and a hunch.
I'm not sure about the higher standard item either. Using the current example... Unsung was exceptionally patient until, almost with a sigh, he lost patience and bowed out. He never went down in a flame of glory- lashing out at his opponents like I have seen from others who have been banned while propping up the left position.
Unsung was but one example. and not one I was referring to.
of course my numbers are speculatory. but I'd say probably fairly accurate amongst regular posters.
my point is I have seen many of the same behaviours and lashing out at "opponents", with only people of certain philosophical/political persuasions getting the brunt of the punishments.
You have numbers thirty? Because in my experience of over 10 years on here I would say the bans have been proportional to the amount of left vs. right on here. But that's my anecdotal thoughts.....same as yours. So why even bring it up?
You have numbers thirty? Because in my experience of over 10 years on here I would say the bans have been proportional to the amount of left vs. right on here. But that's my anecdotal thoughts.....same as yours. So why even bring it up?
If you have been following the flow of conversation... you'd know why I brought it up. I'm not prepared to summarize everything to the point in time when I made my assertion- which fits given the context.
I asked for an identity that would seem to represent 'right' political views that has been banned. Do you have one?
You have numbers thirty? Because in my experience of over 10 years on here I would say the bans have been proportional to the amount of left vs. right on here. But that's my anecdotal thoughts.....same as yours. So why even bring it up?
If you have been following the flow of conversation... you'd know why I brought it up. I'm not prepared to summarize everything to the point in time when I made my assertion- which fits given the context.
I asked for an identity that would seem to represent 'right' political views that has been banned. Do you have one?
I've been following. I can think of plenty that were way right that have been banned. I'm not going to drag up names.
And I'm also getting bored of all the "right" folks here crying victim when they get called on their BS. There was one particular "right wing" poster who played victim all the time, and they got banned. If you want to be a victim go post in the victim thread, cause nobody cares.
You have numbers thirty? Because in my experience of over 10 years on here I would say the bans have been proportional to the amount of left vs. right on here. But that's my anecdotal thoughts.....same as yours. So why even bring it up?
If you have been following the flow of conversation... you'd know why I brought it up. I'm not prepared to summarize everything to the point in time when I made my assertion- which fits given the context.
I asked for an identity that would seem to represent 'right' political views that has been banned. Do you have one?
I've been following. I can think of plenty that were way right that have been banned. I'm not going to drag up names.
And I'm also getting bored of all the "right" folks here crying victim when they get called on their BS. There was one particular "right wing" poster who played victim all the time, and they got banned. If you want to be a victim go post in the victim thread, cause nobody cares.
I'm not 'right' and I'm not crying victim.
You obviously care more than you let on because you're talking pretty strong here.
(and I don't think you can think of many at all... just saying)
You have numbers thirty? Because in my experience of over 10 years on here I would say the bans have been proportional to the amount of left vs. right on here. But that's my anecdotal thoughts.....same as yours. So why even bring it up?
If you have been following the flow of conversation... you'd know why I brought it up. I'm not prepared to summarize everything to the point in time when I made my assertion- which fits given the context.
I asked for an identity that would seem to represent 'right' political views that has been banned. Do you have one?
I've been following. I can think of plenty that were way right that have been banned. I'm not going to drag up names.
And I'm also getting bored of all the "right" folks here crying victim when they get called on their BS. There was one particular "right wing" poster who played victim all the time, and they got banned. If you want to be a victim go post in the victim thread, cause nobody cares.
I'm not 'right' and I'm not crying victim.
You obviously care more than you let on because you're talking pretty strong here.
(and I don't think you can think of many at all... just saying)
edit: I know who you're talking about. Okay... there was one.
2nd edit: I erroneously quoted myself instead of editing via the function- sorry.
I guess you're wrong, because I veer hard left, and I get belittled and ganged up on all the time around here (as I guess you would know!). I just don't bitch and whine about it constantly.
I don't actually think anybody bitches and moans about it as you like to consistently frame it.
Pointing out the inevitable trend of discourse that follows once someone offers something unpopular is hardly bitching as much as it is making a point regarding inherent tendencies that, quite frankly, make this place kind of shitty at times.
I've seen the same tactic by the 'left' (using your terminology) multiple times, yet have never seen you become indignant for it. Look at the gun threads which you frequent: I can't begin to recall the amount of times people have said, "Prepare for the inevitable if only someone there had a gun" comment... or "Cue the more people die by cars" comment.
How many extreme right people have you seen banned on here? I seriously can't think of any off the top of my head. I can think of numerous extreme left people that have been banned. Why is that? Is it because moderators are right wing and cannot tolerate the left attitudes... or is it because perhaps the tendency to attack with ruthlessness rests within the left contingency?
I think you know me and I'm not deliberately trying to polarize the community any more than what it already is. I think I probably rest right of the middle given my strong stance on crime and punishment... but I have been very vocal for many significant left ideals at the same time.
I'm not picking sides is what I'm saying here: I'm only supporting the right to voice your side without getting habitually shit on (extreme positions- which almost beg for an attack- aside).
I am indignant about the hypocrisy, not the tactic. Yeah, lots of people pull that trick (it's tedious, but whatever) But the point is that people who do it themselves are repeatedly acting like victims of bias when it's done to them. And worse, acting like victims of plain old disdain, when the are regularly disdainful towards others.
A lot of extreme right people have been banned. Where people are on the political spectrum has nothing to do with that - it's been all over the board.
Really? Who?
I can seriously think of very prominent lefties, but am challenged to think of any rightie.
The one that keeps popping in my head is Unsung- but he simply walked away: tired of the stuff I'm getting at.It was rare when I agreed with him, but he was a very important voice here.
Pandora was pretty hardcore. She actually flew a Confederate flag on her house. More than banned, I can think of more right people who SHOULD have been banned but weren't. What was Sawyer? Can't even remember now.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
bootlegger, for whatever it's worth, I don't think you're coming from a place of malice from what I've read. Seems pretty decent and straightforward from here.
I never suggested bootlegger was coming from a place of malice, fwiw.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I guess you're wrong, because I veer hard left, and I get belittled and ganged up on all the time around here (as I guess you would know!). I just don't bitch and whine about it constantly.
I don't actually think anybody bitches and moans about it as you like to consistently frame it.
Pointing out the inevitable trend of discourse that follows once someone offers something unpopular is hardly bitching as much as it is making a point regarding inherent tendencies that, quite frankly, make this place kind of shitty at times.
I've seen the same tactic by the 'left' (using your terminology) multiple times, yet have never seen you become indignant for it. Look at the gun threads which you frequent: I can't begin to recall the amount of times people have said, "Prepare for the inevitable if only someone there had a gun" comment... or "Cue the more people die by cars" comment.
How many extreme right people have you seen banned on here? I seriously can't think of any off the top of my head. I can think of numerous extreme left people that have been banned. Why is that? Is it because moderators are right wing and cannot tolerate the left attitudes... or is it because perhaps the tendency to attack with ruthlessness rests within the left contingency?
I think you know me and I'm not deliberately trying to polarize the community any more than what it already is. I think I probably rest right of the middle given my strong stance on crime and punishment... but I have been very vocal for many significant left ideals at the same time.
I'm not picking sides is what I'm saying here: I'm only supporting the right to voice your side without getting habitually shit on (extreme positions- which almost beg for an attack- aside).
I am indignant about the hypocrisy, not the tactic. Yeah, lots of people pull that trick (it's tedious, but whatever) But the point is that people who do it themselves are repeatedly acting like victims of bias when it's done to them. And worse, acting like victims of plain old disdain, when the are regularly disdainful towards others.
A lot of extreme right people have been banned. Where people are on the political spectrum has nothing to do with that - it's been all over the board.
Really? Who?
I can seriously think of very prominent lefties, but am challenged to think of any rightie.
The one that keeps popping in my head is Unsung- but he simply walked away: tired of the stuff I'm getting at.It was rare when I agreed with him, but he was a very important voice here.
I say this in all seriousness: I feel like the lefties are held to some higher standard here. The righties seem to be able to say and do whatever the fuck they want with nary a slap. The lefties get time outs and bans for less than the same. I have seen it all over this board over the years. it has happened to me. PM from a mod saying I was getting a time out for responding to a troll (defending myself against a personal attack, no less). The troll got nothing. I got a time out. More than once.
But also consider that this board is made up of probably 80% left, 10% moderate, and 10% right. You need to look at proportions of who gets banned, not the numbers.
anyway, back on the rails.....
Yeah, I agree with all of this.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
You have numbers thirty? Because in my experience of over 10 years on here I would say the bans have been proportional to the amount of left vs. right on here. But that's my anecdotal thoughts.....same as yours. So why even bring it up?
If you have been following the flow of conversation... you'd know why I brought it up. I'm not prepared to summarize everything to the point in time when I made my assertion- which fits given the context.
I asked for an identity that would seem to represent 'right' political views that has been banned. Do you have one?
I've been following. I can think of plenty that were way right that have been banned. I'm not going to drag up names.
And I'm also getting bored of all the "right" folks here crying victim when they get called on their BS. There was one particular "right wing" poster who played victim all the time, and they got banned. If you want to be a victim go post in the victim thread, cause nobody cares.
Just A Girl was banned??
So yeah, the issue still remains. The "rights" keep complaining about being vicitims. I assume this is simply because they feel outnumbered? Whatever it is, they are tending to play victim in reaction to behaviours that they do themselves. Very irritating, and very unfair, because they also tend to use this tactic as an actual part of the points they are debating, as though it somehow proves their points, which are actually unrelated. It boils down to being a cheap and easy way to try and "win" an argument.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I know you didn't mention malice, PJ; guess I used the word more toward the reactions to the perceived intent of his comments. Always appreciate when people clarify themselves, and do so well in the process.
As to right, left...this place is no different than anywhere else. All flavors. While I do catch myself occasionally pulling that label (ha!) shit in my mind, I really try to be aware of doing that and not allowing it to narrow my reception to the various thoughts tossed around on these forums.
bruce is a male not a female. he dresses as a woman. he may be feminine. he may take meds that enhance his breasts. dude's a guy w/ a samurai sword in his pocket. his innerness may feel womanly & that's fine & stuff. bruce isn't a full on woman at all & never will be. i am sorry but that's the way it is.
Brace yourself for the volley of eggs and rotten tomatoes.
I'm getting a bit sick of this line. Is that Victim thread still open?
In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics. To summarise:
Sorry. I pasted the wrong thing....something I was looking at earlier.
This is more clear.
The distinction between sex and gender differentiates sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity).[1][2] In some circumstances, an individual's assigned sex and gender do not align, and the person may be transgender,[1] or intersex.
The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably.[3][4] Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions while others do not.
Among scientists, the term sex differences (as compared to gender differences) is typically applied to sexually dimorphic traits that are hypothesized to be evolved consequences of sexual selection.[5][6]
Society has to make up our mind how to identify people Male, Female or Transgender
They are simply men and women born with the wrong bodies.
So we should just identify them as that? - "born with the wrong body"? Do you know how belittling that suggestion is? Male, Female or Transgender, simple.
No, you identify them as whatever they with to be identified as. What's belittling? No idea what you mean. That transgendered people feel like they were born with the wrong body is basically the defining feature of being transgendered.
OK, so Bruce Jenner was a man, married, has kids and loves women and was heterosexual.
Now Bruce is Caitlyn, has boobs, his man parts, still loves women and is now a woman...
So is she a lesbian now?
I don't know. Who cares? I don't see how that makes any difference.
Why comment if you don't care then?
I thought it was an interesting question to ask...
I think part of the point is that we as a society seem to have this obsession with labelling everything, which is part of the problem. are you hetero? homo? bi?
how about "I'm just me"?
No, we have a gutless society that placates to the extreme minority. Transgender is not normal. We don't have an obsession with labeling. We just know that people are born male and female. Whether one has a chemical imbalance in the brain shouldn't add a third gender type.
Are people like Jenner bad people? No, of course not. Should they be treated with respect? Of course. But should society have to adapt to them based on their decisions about their bodies? I don't think so.
Kinda like how being gay isn't normal? I wouldn't expect a post like this in 2015......blast from the past man.
Seriously. Is it 1991 again?
This board is so predictable. I went out of my way to say I had nothing against transgender people and get treated like a devil and someone who is going to discriminate like segregation. If anyone has any links to message boards that allow differing opinions let me know.
Yes, you very clearly stated that you have nothing against abnormal people who have chemical imbalances in their brain. We all got that.
I think we all would agree that the majority of people are born male or female and do not have urges to switch genders. It may be more than 1 in a million but it certainly isn't prevalent. So, what causes someone like Bruce Jenner to want to switch sexes? If it isn't a chemical imbalance it is something else that didn't develop normally. I didn't mean chemical imbalance as an attack but literally something genetically happened that it is causing this.
That is why I clearly went on to say that I wasn't attacking trans people but just trying to make a point we shouldn't abandon gender classifications. That is what I thought the poster ahead of me was indicating or referencing.
And clearly I indicated that it wasn't someone's choice but genetics, so you can put down the pitchforks.
It is exactly that. For example: Around 1 in 600 "males" are born with Klinefelter Syndrome, giving them an XXY chromosomal configuration, in most cases.
For those who are uneducated about gender and sex issues, do some reading, it might open your mind a bit.
There is lots of talk of "abnormalities, syndromes, mutations, imbalances and disorders" in these studies.
Klinefelter Syndrome Klinefelter syndrome (47XXY or XY/XXY mosaic) with male phenotype is the most pervasive sex chromosomal anomaly (26) affecting approximately 1:600 males. (27) Males with Klinefelter syndrome carry two or more X chromosomes which results in abnormal development of the testis, leading to hypogonadism and infertility. (28) Affected individuals are often tall and produce relatively small amounts of testosterone. As a result of this hormone imbalance, affected males have incompletely developed secondary male sex characteristics.
I read through most of this and learned lots of new words that I had to research that's for sure.
bruce is a male not a female. he dresses as a woman. he may be feminine. he may take meds that enhance his breasts. dude's a guy w/ a samurai sword in his pocket. his innerness may feel womanly & that's fine & stuff. bruce isn't a full on woman at all & never will be. i am sorry but that's the way it is.
Brace yourself for the volley of eggs and rotten tomatoes.
I'm getting a bit sick of this line. Is that Victim thread still open?
In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics. To summarise:
Sorry. I pasted the wrong thing....something I was looking at earlier.
This is more clear.
The distinction between sex and gender differentiates sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity).[1][2] In some circumstances, an individual's assigned sex and gender do not align, and the person may be transgender,[1] or intersex.
The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably.[3][4] Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions while others do not.
Among scientists, the term sex differences (as compared to gender differences) is typically applied to sexually dimorphic traits that are hypothesized to be evolved consequences of sexual selection.[5][6]
Society has to make up our mind how to identify people Male, Female or Transgender
They are simply men and women born with the wrong bodies.
So we should just identify them as that? - "born with the wrong body"? Do you know how belittling that suggestion is? Male, Female or Transgender, simple.
No, you identify them as whatever they with to be identified as. What's belittling? No idea what you mean. That transgendered people feel like they were born with the wrong body is basically the defining feature of being transgendered.
OK, so Bruce Jenner was a man, married, has kids and loves women and was heterosexual.
Now Bruce is Caitlyn, has boobs, his man parts, still loves women and is now a woman...
So is she a lesbian now?
I don't know. Who cares? I don't see how that makes any difference.
Why comment if you don't care then?
I thought it was an interesting question to ask...
I think part of the point is that we as a society seem to have this obsession with labelling everything, which is part of the problem. are you hetero? homo? bi?
how about "I'm just me"?
No, we have a gutless society that placates to the extreme minority. Transgender is not normal. We don't have an obsession with labeling. We just know that people are born male and female. Whether one has a chemical imbalance in the brain shouldn't add a third gender type.
Are people like Jenner bad people? No, of course not. Should they be treated with respect? Of course. But should society have to adapt to them based on their decisions about their bodies? I don't think so.
Kinda like how being gay isn't normal? I wouldn't expect a post like this in 2015......blast from the past man.
Seriously. Is it 1991 again?
This board is so predictable. I went out of my way to say I had nothing against transgender people and get treated like a devil and someone who is going to discriminate like segregation. If anyone has any links to message boards that allow differing opinions let me know.
Poor Bootlegger!
As far as I can tell, your opinion is allowed here, just like everyone else's. I guess you're really looking to find a message board where everyone agrees with you? You don't seem to appreciate others' opinions about your opinions. I've noticed that there are a whole lot of pots calling kettles black around here lately.
Look at Callen 's post below yours and tell me that he just didn't refer to people squirming as a "fuck". I have disagreed with the crowd on here on a couple subjects this week but I don't believe I have insulted any of them with name calling or a high level of personal disdain. Clearly I didn't make the point I wanted clearly (the protection of gender distinctions). People are quick to judge.
If gays, transgendered etc don't make you squirm then my message wasn't directed at you or really anyone particular or even on the board.
I say this in all seriousness: I feel like the lefties are held to some higher standard here. The righties seem to be able to say and do whatever the fuck they want with nary a slap. The lefties get time outs and bans for less than the same. I have seen it all over this board over the years. it has happened to me. PM from a mod saying I was getting a time out for responding to a troll (defending myself against a personal attack, no less). The troll got nothing. I got a time out. More than once.
i've mentioned before that a troll here once called me a pedophile and my angry response got deleted and Kat gave me some "you can't post for a week" bullshit or something.... but the accusation that I'm a pedophile was left up. I have my own theory as to why she felt that was an acceptable thing to say...
I've been called all sorts of names here (I'm a big boy, I can take it) but I once posted "Tea Bagger" and got a very terse message from Kat saying I was being "disrespectful" or some other bullshit.
I say I have my theories as to why she would leave up a comment accusing me of being a pedophile while deleting my response... or why all sorts of gross homophobic, racist, sexist things are left up when "Tea Bagger" is such a horrible thing to post...
but my solution is to not post here much and just post on the secret Facebook group where it's not a problem.
I say this in all seriousness: I feel like the lefties are held to some higher standard here. The righties seem to be able to say and do whatever the fuck they want with nary a slap. The lefties get time outs and bans for less than the same. I have seen it all over this board over the years. it has happened to me. PM from a mod saying I was getting a time out for responding to a troll (defending myself against a personal attack, no less). The troll got nothing. I got a time out. More than once.
i've mentioned before that a troll here once called me a pedophile and my angry response got deleted and Kat gave me some "you can't post for a week" bullshit or something.... but the accusation that I'm a pedophile was left up. I have my own theory as to why she felt that was an acceptable thing to say...
I've been called all sorts of names here (I'm a big boy, I can take it) but I once posted "Tea Bagger" and got a very terse message from Kat saying I was being "disrespectful" or some other bullshit.
I say I have my theories as to why she would leave up a comment accusing me of being a pedophile while deleting my response... or why all sorts of gross homophobic, racist, sexist things are left up when "Tea Bagger" is such a horrible thing to post...
but my solution is to not post here much and just post on the secret Facebook group where it's not a problem.
All true - I remember these instances - and that's a shame.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I say this in all seriousness: I feel like the lefties are held to some higher standard here. The righties seem to be able to say and do whatever the fuck they want with nary a slap. The lefties get time outs and bans for less than the same. I have seen it all over this board over the years. it has happened to me. PM from a mod saying I was getting a time out for responding to a troll (defending myself against a personal attack, no less). The troll got nothing. I got a time out. More than once.
i've mentioned before that a troll here once called me a pedophile and my angry response got deleted and Kat gave me some "you can't post for a week" bullshit or something.... but the accusation that I'm a pedophile was left up. I have my own theory as to why she felt that was an acceptable thing to say...
I've been called all sorts of names here (I'm a big boy, I can take it) but I once posted "Tea Bagger" and got a very terse message from Kat saying I was being "disrespectful" or some other bullshit.
I say I have my theories as to why she would leave up a comment accusing me of being a pedophile while deleting my response... or why all sorts of gross homophobic, racist, sexist things are left up when "Tea Bagger" is such a horrible thing to post...
but my solution is to not post here much and just post on the secret Facebook group where it's not a problem.
All true - I remember these instances - and that's a shame.
Such a shame that secret FB group censors people as well...fuck them.
The joy of life comes from our encounters with new experiences, and hence there is no greater joy than to have an endlessly changing horizon, for each day to have a new and different sun.
I say this in all seriousness: I feel like the lefties are held to some higher standard here. The righties seem to be able to say and do whatever the fuck they want with nary a slap. The lefties get time outs and bans for less than the same. I have seen it all over this board over the years. it has happened to me. PM from a mod saying I was getting a time out for responding to a troll (defending myself against a personal attack, no less). The troll got nothing. I got a time out. More than once.
i've mentioned before that a troll here once called me a pedophile and my angry response got deleted and Kat gave me some "you can't post for a week" bullshit or something.... but the accusation that I'm a pedophile was left up. I have my own theory as to why she felt that was an acceptable thing to say...
I've been called all sorts of names here (I'm a big boy, I can take it) but I once posted "Tea Bagger" and got a very terse message from Kat saying I was being "disrespectful" or some other bullshit.
I say I have my theories as to why she would leave up a comment accusing me of being a pedophile while deleting my response... or why all sorts of gross homophobic, racist, sexist things are left up when "Tea Bagger" is such a horrible thing to post...
but my solution is to not post here much and just post on the secret Facebook group where it's not a problem.
All true - I remember these instances - and that's a shame.
Such a shame that secret FB group censors people as well...fuck them.
Circle jerks.
Let's all come here to talk about how right we are and how shitty all those other people are.
I say this in all seriousness: I feel like the lefties are held to some higher standard here. The righties seem to be able to say and do whatever the fuck they want with nary a slap. The lefties get time outs and bans for less than the same. I have seen it all over this board over the years. it has happened to me. PM from a mod saying I was getting a time out for responding to a troll (defending myself against a personal attack, no less). The troll got nothing. I got a time out. More than once.
i've mentioned before that a troll here once called me a pedophile and my angry response got deleted and Kat gave me some "you can't post for a week" bullshit or something.... but the accusation that I'm a pedophile was left up. I have my own theory as to why she felt that was an acceptable thing to say...
I've been called all sorts of names here (I'm a big boy, I can take it) but I once posted "Tea Bagger" and got a very terse message from Kat saying I was being "disrespectful" or some other bullshit.
I say I have my theories as to why she would leave up a comment accusing me of being a pedophile while deleting my response... or why all sorts of gross homophobic, racist, sexist things are left up when "Tea Bagger" is such a horrible thing to post...
but my solution is to not post here much and just post on the secret Facebook group where it's not a problem.
All true - I remember these instances - and that's a shame.
Such a shame that secret FB group censors people as well...fuck them.
Circle jerks.
Let's all come here to talk about how right we are and how shitty all those other people are.
I say this in all seriousness: I feel like the lefties are held to some higher standard here. The righties seem to be able to say and do whatever the fuck they want with nary a slap. The lefties get time outs and bans for less than the same. I have seen it all over this board over the years. it has happened to me. PM from a mod saying I was getting a time out for responding to a troll (defending myself against a personal attack, no less). The troll got nothing. I got a time out. More than once.
i've mentioned before that a troll here once called me a pedophile and my angry response got deleted and Kat gave me some "you can't post for a week" bullshit or something.... but the accusation that I'm a pedophile was left up. I have my own theory as to why she felt that was an acceptable thing to say...
I've been called all sorts of names here (I'm a big boy, I can take it) but I once posted "Tea Bagger" and got a very terse message from Kat saying I was being "disrespectful" or some other bullshit.
I say I have my theories as to why she would leave up a comment accusing me of being a pedophile while deleting my response... or why all sorts of gross homophobic, racist, sexist things are left up when "Tea Bagger" is such a horrible thing to post...
but my solution is to not post here much and just post on the secret Facebook group where it's not a problem.
All true - I remember these instances - and that's a shame.
Such a shame that secret FB group censors people as well...fuck them.
Not sure which group you're talking about for sure, although i could take a guess... FB is a cess pool. WAY worse than here.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
Klinefelter Syndrome
Klinefelter syndrome (47XXY or XY/XXY mosaic) with male phenotype is the most pervasive sex chromosomal anomaly (26) affecting approximately 1:600 males. (27) Males with Klinefelter syndrome carry two or more X chromosomes which results in abnormal development of the testis, leading to hypogonadism and infertility. (28) Affected individuals are often tall and produce relatively small amounts of testosterone. As a result of this hormone imbalance, affected males have incompletely developed secondary male sex characteristics.
I read through most of this and learned lots of new words that I had to research that's for sure.
A lot of extreme right people have been banned. Where people are on the political spectrum has nothing to do with that - it's been all over the board.
I can seriously think of very prominent lefties, but am challenged to think of any rightie.
The one that keeps popping in my head is Unsung- but he simply walked away: tired of the stuff I'm getting at.It was rare when I agreed with him, but he was a very important voice here.
But also consider that this board is made up of probably 80% left, 10% moderate, and 10% right. You need to look at proportions of who gets banned, not the numbers.
anyway, back on the rails.....
www.headstonesband.com
I'm not sure about the higher standard item either. Using the current example... Unsung was exceptionally patient until, almost with a sigh, he lost patience and bowed out. He never went down in a flame of glory- lashing out at his opponents like I have seen from others who have been banned while propping up the left position.
of course my numbers are speculatory. but I'd say probably fairly accurate amongst regular posters.
my point is I have seen many of the same behaviours and lashing out at "opponents", with only people of certain philosophical/political persuasions getting the brunt of the punishments.
www.headstonesband.com
I asked for an identity that would seem to represent 'right' political views that has been banned. Do you have one?
What-Does-It-Mean-to-Be-Lesbian-Gay-Bisexual-or-Transgender http://www.journeyworks.com/What-Does-It-Mean-to-Be-Lesbian-Gay-Bisexual-or-Transgender/productinfo/5243/
Answers to Your Questions About Transgender People, Gender Identity, & Gender Expression http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.pdf
http://fenwayhealth.org/care/medical/transgender-health/
http://www.wpath.org/
Our Trans Loved Ones https://community.pflag.org/document.doc?id=921
Guide to Being a Trans Ally http://community.pflag.org/document.doc?id=904
Be Yourself see soft copy
Faith in our Families http://community.pflag.org/document.doc?id=494
http://www.glaad.org/transgender/resources
Transgender Visibility Guide http://issuu.com/humanrightscampaign/docs/transgender_visibility_guide_042013/1?e=1357809/2226681
Transitioning and Loving Life https://thetallgroup.wordpress.com/
And I'm also getting bored of all the "right" folks here crying victim when they get called on their BS. There was one particular "right wing" poster who played victim all the time, and they got banned. If you want to be a victim go post in the victim thread, cause nobody cares.
You obviously care more than you let on because you're talking pretty strong here.
(and I don't think you can think of many at all... just saying)
2nd edit: I erroneously quoted myself instead of editing via the function- sorry.
More than banned, I can think of more right people who SHOULD have been banned but weren't.
What was Sawyer? Can't even remember now.
So yeah, the issue still remains. The "rights" keep complaining about being vicitims. I assume this is simply because they feel outnumbered? Whatever it is, they are tending to play victim in reaction to behaviours that they do themselves. Very irritating, and very unfair, because they also tend to use this tactic as an actual part of the points they are debating, as though it somehow proves their points, which are actually unrelated. It boils down to being a cheap and easy way to try and "win" an argument.
I know you didn't mention malice, PJ; guess I used the word more toward the reactions to the perceived intent of his comments. Always appreciate when people clarify themselves, and do so well in the process.
As to right, left...this place is no different than anywhere else. All flavors. While I do catch myself occasionally pulling that label (ha!) shit in my mind, I really try to be aware of doing that and not allowing it to narrow my reception to the various thoughts tossed around on these forums.
I've been called all sorts of names here (I'm a big boy, I can take it) but I once posted "Tea Bagger" and got a very terse message from Kat saying I was being "disrespectful" or some other bullshit.
I say I have my theories as to why she would leave up a comment accusing me of being a pedophile while deleting my response... or why all sorts of gross homophobic, racist, sexist things are left up when "Tea Bagger" is such a horrible thing to post...
but my solution is to not post here much and just post on the secret Facebook group where it's not a problem.
- Christopher McCandless
Let's all come here to talk about how right we are and how shitty all those other people are.