bruce is a male not a female. he dresses as a woman. he may be feminine. he may take meds that enhance his breasts. dude's a guy w/ a samurai sword in his pocket. his innerness may feel womanly & that's fine & stuff. bruce isn't a full on woman at all & never will be. i am sorry but that's the way it is.
Brace yourself for the volley of eggs and rotten tomatoes.
I'm getting a bit sick of this line. Is that Victim thread still open?
In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics. To summarise:
Sorry. I pasted the wrong thing....something I was looking at earlier.
This is more clear.
The distinction between sex and gender differentiates sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity).[1][2] In some circumstances, an individual's assigned sex and gender do not align, and the person may be transgender,[1] or intersex.
The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably.[3][4] Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions while others do not.
Among scientists, the term sex differences (as compared to gender differences) is typically applied to sexually dimorphic traits that are hypothesized to be evolved consequences of sexual selection.[5][6]
Society has to make up our mind how to identify people Male, Female or Transgender
They are simply men and women born with the wrong bodies.
So we should just identify them as that? - "born with the wrong body"? Do you know how belittling that suggestion is? Male, Female or Transgender, simple.
No, you identify them as whatever they with to be identified as. What's belittling? No idea what you mean. That transgendered people feel like they were born with the wrong body is basically the defining feature of being transgendered.
OK, so Bruce Jenner was a man, married, has kids and loves women and was heterosexual.
Now Bruce is Caitlyn, has boobs, his man parts, still loves women and is now a woman...
So is she a lesbian now?
I don't know. Who cares? I don't see how that makes any difference.
Why comment if you don't care then?
I thought it was an interesting question to ask...
I think part of the point is that we as a society seem to have this obsession with labelling everything, which is part of the problem. are you hetero? homo? bi?
how about "I'm just me"?
No, we have a gutless society that placates to the extreme minority. Transgender is not normal. We don't have an obsession with labeling. We just know that people are born male and female. Whether one has a chemical imbalance in the brain shouldn't add a third gender type.
Are people like Jenner bad people? No, of course not. Should they be treated with respect? Of course. But should society have to adapt to them based on their decisions about their bodies? I don't think so.
Are not "normal" and "abnormal" labels as well? And what is normal or abnormal anyway? I've never understood that nor care.
bruce is a male not a female. he dresses as a woman. he may be feminine. he may take meds that enhance his breasts. dude's a guy w/ a samurai sword in his pocket. his innerness may feel womanly & that's fine & stuff. bruce isn't a full on woman at all & never will be. i am sorry but that's the way it is.
Brace yourself for the volley of eggs and rotten tomatoes.
I'm getting a bit sick of this line. Is that Victim thread still open?
In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics. To summarise:
Sorry. I pasted the wrong thing....something I was looking at earlier.
This is more clear.
The distinction between sex and gender differentiates sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity).[1][2] In some circumstances, an individual's assigned sex and gender do not align, and the person may be transgender,[1] or intersex.
The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably.[3][4] Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions while others do not.
Among scientists, the term sex differences (as compared to gender differences) is typically applied to sexually dimorphic traits that are hypothesized to be evolved consequences of sexual selection.[5][6]
Society has to make up our mind how to identify people Male, Female or Transgender
They are simply men and women born with the wrong bodies.
So we should just identify them as that? - "born with the wrong body"? Do you know how belittling that suggestion is? Male, Female or Transgender, simple.
No, you identify them as whatever they with to be identified as. What's belittling? No idea what you mean. That transgendered people feel like they were born with the wrong body is basically the defining feature of being transgendered.
OK, so Bruce Jenner was a man, married, has kids and loves women and was heterosexual.
Now Bruce is Caitlyn, has boobs, his man parts, still loves women and is now a woman...
So is she a lesbian now?
I don't know. Who cares? I don't see how that makes any difference.
Why comment if you don't care then?
I thought it was an interesting question to ask...
I think part of the point is that we as a society seem to have this obsession with labelling everything, which is part of the problem. are you hetero? homo? bi?
how about "I'm just me"?
No, we have a gutless society that placates to the extreme minority. Transgender is not normal. We don't have an obsession with labeling. We just know that people are born male and female. Whether one has a chemical imbalance in the brain shouldn't add a third gender type.
Are people like Jenner bad people? No, of course not. Should they be treated with respect? Of course. But should society have to adapt to them based on their decisions about their bodies? I don't think so.
Kinda like how being gay isn't normal? I wouldn't expect a post like this in 2015......blast from the past man.
Seriously. Is it 1991 again?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
bruce is a male not a female. he dresses as a woman. he may be feminine. he may take meds that enhance his breasts. dude's a guy w/ a samurai sword in his pocket. his innerness may feel womanly & that's fine & stuff. bruce isn't a full on woman at all & never will be. i am sorry but that's the way it is.
Brace yourself for the volley of eggs and rotten tomatoes.
I'm getting a bit sick of this line. Is that Victim thread still open?
In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics. To summarise:
Sorry. I pasted the wrong thing....something I was looking at earlier.
This is more clear.
The distinction between sex and gender differentiates sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity).[1][2] In some circumstances, an individual's assigned sex and gender do not align, and the person may be transgender,[1] or intersex.
The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably.[3][4] Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions while others do not.
Among scientists, the term sex differences (as compared to gender differences) is typically applied to sexually dimorphic traits that are hypothesized to be evolved consequences of sexual selection.[5][6]
Society has to make up our mind how to identify people Male, Female or Transgender
They are simply men and women born with the wrong bodies.
So we should just identify them as that? - "born with the wrong body"? Do you know how belittling that suggestion is? Male, Female or Transgender, simple.
No, you identify them as whatever they with to be identified as. What's belittling? No idea what you mean. That transgendered people feel like they were born with the wrong body is basically the defining feature of being transgendered.
OK, so Bruce Jenner was a man, married, has kids and loves women and was heterosexual.
Now Bruce is Caitlyn, has boobs, his man parts, still loves women and is now a woman...
So is she a lesbian now?
I don't know. Who cares? I don't see how that makes any difference.
Why comment if you don't care then?
I thought it was an interesting question to ask...
I think part of the point is that we as a society seem to have this obsession with labelling everything, which is part of the problem. are you hetero? homo? bi?
how about "I'm just me"?
No, we have a gutless society that placates to the extreme minority. Transgender is not normal. We don't have an obsession with labeling. We just know that people are born male and female. Whether one has a chemical imbalance in the brain shouldn't add a third gender type.
Are people like Jenner bad people? No, of course not. Should they be treated with respect? Of course. But should society have to adapt to them based on their decisions about their bodies? I don't think so.
WOW!!!! Really??
Okay here we go....
Transgender is waaaay more normal than you think or want to believe. YES there is an obsession with labeling in our society. It is NOT as simple as being born male or female. Transgender is NOT about a chemical imbalance. Their should absolutely be some adaptation in society. Not necessarily complete acquiescence. But some positive change would be nice.
Calling transgenderism a chemical imbalance is the same as calling it a mental illness. Calling transgenderism a decision is the same as calling it a choice.
Yes, it really does feel like we're just regurgitating a conversation about gay people back in the 90s when everyone was freaking out about gayness because of AIDS. But now the resistance is because of..... ?? Too many washroom types?? Btw, having a third washroom for transgendered people seems fairly offensive to me.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I really don't care what Caitlyn Jenner calls herself; my real issue is that she is only winning these awards because she's transgendered. I mean, how did she score an ESPY when she hasn't been an active athlete in decades? The same thing is true of this award. What redeeming qualities does Jenner bring to the table that would make her worthy of being declared woman of the year? Perhaps her intolerance towards same-sex marriage put her over the top.
bruce is a male not a female. he dresses as a woman. he may be feminine. he may take meds that enhance his breasts. dude's a guy w/ a samurai sword in his pocket. his innerness may feel womanly & that's fine & stuff. bruce isn't a full on woman at all & never will be. i am sorry but that's the way it is.
Brace yourself for the volley of eggs and rotten tomatoes.
I'm getting a bit sick of this line. Is that Victim thread still open?
In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics. To summarise:
Sorry. I pasted the wrong thing....something I was looking at earlier.
This is more clear.
The distinction between sex and gender differentiates sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity).[1][2] In some circumstances, an individual's assigned sex and gender do not align, and the person may be transgender,[1] or intersex.
The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably.[3][4] Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions while others do not.
Among scientists, the term sex differences (as compared to gender differences) is typically applied to sexually dimorphic traits that are hypothesized to be evolved consequences of sexual selection.[5][6]
Society has to make up our mind how to identify people Male, Female or Transgender
They are simply men and women born with the wrong bodies.
So we should just identify them as that? - "born with the wrong body"? Do you know how belittling that suggestion is? Male, Female or Transgender, simple.
No, you identify them as whatever they with to be identified as. What's belittling? No idea what you mean. That transgendered people feel like they were born with the wrong body is basically the defining feature of being transgendered.
OK, so Bruce Jenner was a man, married, has kids and loves women and was heterosexual.
Now Bruce is Caitlyn, has boobs, his man parts, still loves women and is now a woman...
So is she a lesbian now?
I don't know. Who cares? I don't see how that makes any difference.
Why comment if you don't care then?
I thought it was an interesting question to ask...
I think part of the point is that we as a society seem to have this obsession with labelling everything, which is part of the problem. are you hetero? homo? bi?
how about "I'm just me"?
No, we have a gutless society that placates to the extreme minority. Transgender is not normal. We don't have an obsession with labeling. We just know that people are born male and female. Whether one has a chemical imbalance in the brain shouldn't add a third gender type.
Are people like Jenner bad people? No, of course not. Should they be treated with respect? Of course. But should society have to adapt to them based on their decisions about their bodies? I don't think so.
Acceptance and tolerance is gutless? I'd say intolerance and ignorance are actually gutless. There is nothing to fear here.
bruce is a male not a female. he dresses as a woman. he may be feminine. he may take meds that enhance his breasts. dude's a guy w/ a samurai sword in his pocket. his innerness may feel womanly & that's fine & stuff. bruce isn't a full on woman at all & never will be. i am sorry but that's the way it is.
Brace yourself for the volley of eggs and rotten tomatoes.
I'm getting a bit sick of this line. Is that Victim thread still open?
In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics. To summarise:
Sorry. I pasted the wrong thing....something I was looking at earlier.
This is more clear.
The distinction between sex and gender differentiates sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity).[1][2] In some circumstances, an individual's assigned sex and gender do not align, and the person may be transgender,[1] or intersex.
The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably.[3][4] Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions while others do not.
Among scientists, the term sex differences (as compared to gender differences) is typically applied to sexually dimorphic traits that are hypothesized to be evolved consequences of sexual selection.[5][6]
Society has to make up our mind how to identify people Male, Female or Transgender
They are simply men and women born with the wrong bodies.
So we should just identify them as that? - "born with the wrong body"? Do you know how belittling that suggestion is? Male, Female or Transgender, simple.
No, you identify them as whatever they with to be identified as. What's belittling? No idea what you mean. That transgendered people feel like they were born with the wrong body is basically the defining feature of being transgendered.
OK, so Bruce Jenner was a man, married, has kids and loves women and was heterosexual.
Now Bruce is Caitlyn, has boobs, his man parts, still loves women and is now a woman...
So is she a lesbian now?
I don't know. Who cares? I don't see how that makes any difference.
Why comment if you don't care then?
I thought it was an interesting question to ask...
I think part of the point is that we as a society seem to have this obsession with labelling everything, which is part of the problem. are you hetero? homo? bi?
how about "I'm just me"?
No, we have a gutless society that placates to the extreme minority. Transgender is not normal. We don't have an obsession with labeling. We just know that people are born male and female. Whether one has a chemical imbalance in the brain shouldn't add a third gender type.
Are people like Jenner bad people? No, of course not. Should they be treated with respect? Of course. But should society have to adapt to them based on their decisions about their bodies? I don't think so.
Acceptance and tolerance is gutless? I'd say intolerance and ignorance are actually gutless. There is nothing to fear here.
The poster above you states not normal in describing transgender. I ask bootlegger10, to whom?
bruce is a male not a female. he dresses as a woman. he may be feminine. he may take meds that enhance his breasts. dude's a guy w/ a samurai sword in his pocket. his innerness may feel womanly & that's fine & stuff. bruce isn't a full on woman at all & never will be. i am sorry but that's the way it is.
Brace yourself for the volley of eggs and rotten tomatoes.
I'm getting a bit sick of this line. Is that Victim thread still open?
In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics. To summarise:
Sorry. I pasted the wrong thing....something I was looking at earlier.
This is more clear.
The distinction between sex and gender differentiates sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity).[1][2] In some circumstances, an individual's assigned sex and gender do not align, and the person may be transgender,[1] or intersex.
The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably.[3][4] Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions while others do not.
Among scientists, the term sex differences (as compared to gender differences) is typically applied to sexually dimorphic traits that are hypothesized to be evolved consequences of sexual selection.[5][6]
Society has to make up our mind how to identify people Male, Female or Transgender
They are simply men and women born with the wrong bodies.
So we should just identify them as that? - "born with the wrong body"? Do you know how belittling that suggestion is? Male, Female or Transgender, simple.
No, you identify them as whatever they with to be identified as. What's belittling? No idea what you mean. That transgendered people feel like they were born with the wrong body is basically the defining feature of being transgendered.
OK, so Bruce Jenner was a man, married, has kids and loves women and was heterosexual.
Now Bruce is Caitlyn, has boobs, his man parts, still loves women and is now a woman...
So is she a lesbian now?
I don't know. Who cares? I don't see how that makes any difference.
Why comment if you don't care then?
I thought it was an interesting question to ask...
I think part of the point is that we as a society seem to have this obsession with labelling everything, which is part of the problem. are you hetero? homo? bi?
how about "I'm just me"?
No, we have a gutless society that placates to the extreme minority. Transgender is not normal. We don't have an obsession with labeling. We just know that people are born male and female. Whether one has a chemical imbalance in the brain shouldn't add a third gender type.
Are people like Jenner bad people? No, of course not. Should they be treated with respect? Of course. But should society have to adapt to them based on their decisions about their bodies? I don't think so.
Kinda like how being gay isn't normal? I wouldn't expect a post like this in 2015......blast from the past man.
Seriously. Is it 1991 again?
This board is so predictable. I went out of my way to say I had nothing against transgender people and get treated like a devil and someone who is going to discriminate like segregation. If anyone has any links to message boards that allow differing opinions let me know.
bruce is a male not a female. he dresses as a woman. he may be feminine. he may take meds that enhance his breasts. dude's a guy w/ a samurai sword in his pocket. his innerness may feel womanly & that's fine & stuff. bruce isn't a full on woman at all & never will be. i am sorry but that's the way it is.
Brace yourself for the volley of eggs and rotten tomatoes.
I'm getting a bit sick of this line. Is that Victim thread still open?
In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics. To summarise:
Sorry. I pasted the wrong thing....something I was looking at earlier.
This is more clear.
The distinction between sex and gender differentiates sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity).[1][2] In some circumstances, an individual's assigned sex and gender do not align, and the person may be transgender,[1] or intersex.
The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably.[3][4] Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions while others do not.
Among scientists, the term sex differences (as compared to gender differences) is typically applied to sexually dimorphic traits that are hypothesized to be evolved consequences of sexual selection.[5][6]
Society has to make up our mind how to identify people Male, Female or Transgender
They are simply men and women born with the wrong bodies.
So we should just identify them as that? - "born with the wrong body"? Do you know how belittling that suggestion is? Male, Female or Transgender, simple.
No, you identify them as whatever they with to be identified as. What's belittling? No idea what you mean. That transgendered people feel like they were born with the wrong body is basically the defining feature of being transgendered.
OK, so Bruce Jenner was a man, married, has kids and loves women and was heterosexual.
Now Bruce is Caitlyn, has boobs, his man parts, still loves women and is now a woman...
So is she a lesbian now?
I don't know. Who cares? I don't see how that makes any difference.
Why comment if you don't care then?
I thought it was an interesting question to ask...
I think part of the point is that we as a society seem to have this obsession with labelling everything, which is part of the problem. are you hetero? homo? bi?
how about "I'm just me"?
No, we have a gutless society that placates to the extreme minority. Transgender is not normal. We don't have an obsession with labeling. We just know that people are born male and female. Whether one has a chemical imbalance in the brain shouldn't add a third gender type.
Are people like Jenner bad people? No, of course not. Should they be treated with respect? Of course. But should society have to adapt to them based on their decisions about their bodies? I don't think so.
Kinda like how being gay isn't normal? I wouldn't expect a post like this in 2015......blast from the past man.
Seriously. Is it 1991 again?
This board is so predictable. I went out of my way to say I had nothing against transgender people and get treated like a devil and someone who is going to discriminate like segregation. If anyone has any links to message boards that allow differing opinions let me know.
Yes, you very clearly stated that you have nothing against abnormal people who have chemical imbalances in their brain. We all got that.
bruce is a male not a female. he dresses as a woman. he may be feminine. he may take meds that enhance his breasts. dude's a guy w/ a samurai sword in his pocket. his innerness may feel womanly & that's fine & stuff. bruce isn't a full on woman at all & never will be. i am sorry but that's the way it is.
Brace yourself for the volley of eggs and rotten tomatoes.
I'm getting a bit sick of this line. Is that Victim thread still open?
In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics. To summarise:
Sorry. I pasted the wrong thing....something I was looking at earlier.
This is more clear.
The distinction between sex and gender differentiates sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity).[1][2] In some circumstances, an individual's assigned sex and gender do not align, and the person may be transgender,[1] or intersex.
The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably.[3][4] Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions while others do not.
Among scientists, the term sex differences (as compared to gender differences) is typically applied to sexually dimorphic traits that are hypothesized to be evolved consequences of sexual selection.[5][6]
Society has to make up our mind how to identify people Male, Female or Transgender
They are simply men and women born with the wrong bodies.
So we should just identify them as that? - "born with the wrong body"? Do you know how belittling that suggestion is? Male, Female or Transgender, simple.
No, you identify them as whatever they with to be identified as. What's belittling? No idea what you mean. That transgendered people feel like they were born with the wrong body is basically the defining feature of being transgendered.
OK, so Bruce Jenner was a man, married, has kids and loves women and was heterosexual.
Now Bruce is Caitlyn, has boobs, his man parts, still loves women and is now a woman...
So is she a lesbian now?
I don't know. Who cares? I don't see how that makes any difference.
Why comment if you don't care then?
I thought it was an interesting question to ask...
I think part of the point is that we as a society seem to have this obsession with labelling everything, which is part of the problem. are you hetero? homo? bi?
how about "I'm just me"?
No, we have a gutless society that placates to the extreme minority. Transgender is not normal. We don't have an obsession with labeling. We just know that people are born male and female. Whether one has a chemical imbalance in the brain shouldn't add a third gender type.
Are people like Jenner bad people? No, of course not. Should they be treated with respect? Of course. But should society have to adapt to them based on their decisions about their bodies? I don't think so.
Kinda like how being gay isn't normal? I wouldn't expect a post like this in 2015......blast from the past man.
Seriously. Is it 1991 again?
This board is so predictable. I went out of my way to say I had nothing against transgender people and get treated like a devil and someone who is going to discriminate like segregation. If anyone has any links to message boards that allow differing opinions let me know.
yeah, you said you respect her, yet called her mentally unstable.
I have no problem with people saying they believe they think it to be unnatural, that is your opinion, and can be stated in a respectful manner. but that's not what you did.
transgendered is not a third gender. it's what you call someone in the middle of their transition. once she is fully female, if she decides to do that, she will no longer be transgendered. she will be female.
Calling transgenderism a chemical imbalance is the same as calling it a mental illness. Calling transgenderism a decision is the same as calling it a choice.
Yes, it really does feel like we're just regurgitating a conversation about gay people back in the 90s when everyone was freaking out about gayness because of AIDS. But now the resistance is because of..... ?? Too many washroom types?? Btw, having a third washroom for transgendered people seems fairly offensive to me.
Yeah the third restroom idea is a tough one. As a father of three girls I can see being a little nervous that a man (technically) is occupying a restroom with my girls when it isn't acceptable for me to enter the restroom, etc.
At the same time I realize that this person (assuming a man transgenders to woman) has most likely no interest in anything other than using the restroom.
I know some people would consider a gay man using a men's restroom as creepy or unacceptable, etc. It's an odd argument for sure but in the end we don't really follow each other around and keep track of gender or sexual preference.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
bruce is a male not a female. he dresses as a woman. he may be feminine. he may take meds that enhance his breasts. dude's a guy w/ a samurai sword in his pocket. his innerness may feel womanly & that's fine & stuff. bruce isn't a full on woman at all & never will be. i am sorry but that's the way it is.
Brace yourself for the volley of eggs and rotten tomatoes.
I'm getting a bit sick of this line. Is that Victim thread still open?
In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics. To summarise:
Sorry. I pasted the wrong thing....something I was looking at earlier.
This is more clear.
The distinction between sex and gender differentiates sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity).[1][2] In some circumstances, an individual's assigned sex and gender do not align, and the person may be transgender,[1] or intersex.
The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably.[3][4] Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions while others do not.
Among scientists, the term sex differences (as compared to gender differences) is typically applied to sexually dimorphic traits that are hypothesized to be evolved consequences of sexual selection.[5][6]
Society has to make up our mind how to identify people Male, Female or Transgender
They are simply men and women born with the wrong bodies.
So we should just identify them as that? - "born with the wrong body"? Do you know how belittling that suggestion is? Male, Female or Transgender, simple.
No, you identify them as whatever they with to be identified as. What's belittling? No idea what you mean. That transgendered people feel like they were born with the wrong body is basically the defining feature of being transgendered.
OK, so Bruce Jenner was a man, married, has kids and loves women and was heterosexual.
Now Bruce is Caitlyn, has boobs, his man parts, still loves women and is now a woman...
So is she a lesbian now?
I don't know. Who cares? I don't see how that makes any difference.
Why comment if you don't care then?
I thought it was an interesting question to ask...
I think part of the point is that we as a society seem to have this obsession with labelling everything, which is part of the problem. are you hetero? homo? bi?
how about "I'm just me"?
No, we have a gutless society that placates to the extreme minority. Transgender is not normal. We don't have an obsession with labeling. We just know that people are born male and female. Whether one has a chemical imbalance in the brain shouldn't add a third gender type.
Are people like Jenner bad people? No, of course not. Should they be treated with respect? Of course. But should society have to adapt to them based on their decisions about their bodies? I don't think so.
Kinda like how being gay isn't normal? I wouldn't expect a post like this in 2015......blast from the past man.
Seriously. Is it 1991 again?
This board is so predictable. I went out of my way to say I had nothing against transgender people and get treated like a devil and someone who is going to discriminate like segregation. If anyone has any links to message boards that allow differing opinions let me know.
Poor Bootlegger!
As far as I can tell, your opinion is allowed here, just like everyone else's. I guess you're really looking to find a message board where everyone agrees with you? You don't seem to appreciate others' opinions about your opinions. I've noticed that there are a whole lot of pots calling kettles black around here lately.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
There is no difference between gay straight transgender whatever. All humans period. If you see any different your sad and insecure.
I love that gays and transgendered humans are getting the spot light and making fucks squirm. Squirm away and know you have the problem
Go Catlyn and Ellen and Rosie.
I love that there are differences in humans. If the world were all the same it would be bland and boring. This is the same concept as giving kids participation trophies. Differences have to be recognized. Discriminating the differences is another thing.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Too many characters to reply to posts and on my cell phone. To comment to BrianLux's post about normal and abnormal:
I didn't mean normal as good and abnormal as bad. If 95 out of 100 apples are red then it would be normal for apples to be red.
I wasn't trying to get rid of "labels" per se. I agree labels are bad in cases but was mainly saying we shouldn't be flippant by saying male and female are just labels. These are important distinctions. Certainly they don't dictate what people can do in life but we shouldn't discard them as male and female are generally quite different from each other.
bruce is a male not a female. he dresses as a woman. he may be feminine. he may take meds that enhance his breasts. dude's a guy w/ a samurai sword in his pocket. his innerness may feel womanly & that's fine & stuff. bruce isn't a full on woman at all & never will be. i am sorry but that's the way it is.
Brace yourself for the volley of eggs and rotten tomatoes.
I'm getting a bit sick of this line. Is that Victim thread still open?
In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics. To summarise:
Sorry. I pasted the wrong thing....something I was looking at earlier.
This is more clear.
The distinction between sex and gender differentiates sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity).[1][2] In some circumstances, an individual's assigned sex and gender do not align, and the person may be transgender,[1] or intersex.
The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably.[3][4] Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions while others do not.
Among scientists, the term sex differences (as compared to gender differences) is typically applied to sexually dimorphic traits that are hypothesized to be evolved consequences of sexual selection.[5][6]
Society has to make up our mind how to identify people Male, Female or Transgender
They are simply men and women born with the wrong bodies.
So we should just identify them as that? - "born with the wrong body"? Do you know how belittling that suggestion is? Male, Female or Transgender, simple.
No, you identify them as whatever they with to be identified as. What's belittling? No idea what you mean. That transgendered people feel like they were born with the wrong body is basically the defining feature of being transgendered.
OK, so Bruce Jenner was a man, married, has kids and loves women and was heterosexual.
Now Bruce is Caitlyn, has boobs, his man parts, still loves women and is now a woman...
So is she a lesbian now?
I don't know. Who cares? I don't see how that makes any difference.
Why comment if you don't care then?
I thought it was an interesting question to ask...
I think part of the point is that we as a society seem to have this obsession with labelling everything, which is part of the problem. are you hetero? homo? bi?
how about "I'm just me"?
No, we have a gutless society that placates to the extreme minority. Transgender is not normal. We don't have an obsession with labeling. We just know that people are born male and female. Whether one has a chemical imbalance in the brain shouldn't add a third gender type.
Are people like Jenner bad people? No, of course not. Should they be treated with respect? Of course. But should society have to adapt to them based on their decisions about their bodies? I don't think so.
Acceptance and tolerance is gutless? I'd say intolerance and ignorance are actually gutless. There is nothing to fear here.
No, I wasn't referring to acceptance and tolerance. It is trying to get rid of gender distinctions and gender classifications as a whole that I don't accept. Because some girls feel like boys doesn't mean we can't have the color pink in the girls toy section at a store (I read somewhere that one prominent store did this).
bruce is a male not a female. he dresses as a woman. he may be feminine. he may take meds that enhance his breasts. dude's a guy w/ a samurai sword in his pocket. his innerness may feel womanly & that's fine & stuff. bruce isn't a full on woman at all & never will be. i am sorry but that's the way it is.
Brace yourself for the volley of eggs and rotten tomatoes.
I'm getting a bit sick of this line. Is that Victim thread still open?
In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics. To summarise:
Sorry. I pasted the wrong thing....something I was looking at earlier.
This is more clear.
The distinction between sex and gender differentiates sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity).[1][2] In some circumstances, an individual's assigned sex and gender do not align, and the person may be transgender,[1] or intersex.
The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably.[3][4] Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions while others do not.
Among scientists, the term sex differences (as compared to gender differences) is typically applied to sexually dimorphic traits that are hypothesized to be evolved consequences of sexual selection.[5][6]
Society has to make up our mind how to identify people Male, Female or Transgender
They are simply men and women born with the wrong bodies.
So we should just identify them as that? - "born with the wrong body"? Do you know how belittling that suggestion is? Male, Female or Transgender, simple.
No, you identify them as whatever they with to be identified as. What's belittling? No idea what you mean. That transgendered people feel like they were born with the wrong body is basically the defining feature of being transgendered.
OK, so Bruce Jenner was a man, married, has kids and loves women and was heterosexual.
Now Bruce is Caitlyn, has boobs, his man parts, still loves women and is now a woman...
So is she a lesbian now?
I don't know. Who cares? I don't see how that makes any difference.
Why comment if you don't care then?
I thought it was an interesting question to ask...
I think part of the point is that we as a society seem to have this obsession with labelling everything, which is part of the problem. are you hetero? homo? bi?
how about "I'm just me"?
No, we have a gutless society that placates to the extreme minority. Transgender is not normal. We don't have an obsession with labeling. We just know that people are born male and female. Whether one has a chemical imbalance in the brain shouldn't add a third gender type.
Are people like Jenner bad people? No, of course not. Should they be treated with respect? Of course. But should society have to adapt to them based on their decisions about their bodies? I don't think so.
Kinda like how being gay isn't normal? I wouldn't expect a post like this in 2015......blast from the past man.
Seriously. Is it 1991 again?
This board is so predictable. I went out of my way to say I had nothing against transgender people and get treated like a devil and someone who is going to discriminate like segregation. If anyone has any links to message boards that allow differing opinions let me know.
Yes, you very clearly stated that you have nothing against abnormal people who have chemical imbalances in their brain. We all got that.
I think we all would agree that the majority of people are born male or female and do not have urges to switch genders. It may be more than 1 in a million but it certainly isn't prevalent. So, what causes someone like Bruce Jenner to want to switch sexes? If it isn't a chemical imbalance it is something else that didn't develop normally. I didn't mean chemical imbalance as an attack but literally something genetically happened that it is causing this.
That is why I clearly went on to say that I wasn't attacking trans people but just trying to make a point we shouldn't abandon gender classifications. That is what I thought the poster ahead of me was indicating or referencing.
And clearly I indicated that it wasn't someone's choice but genetics, so you can put down the pitchforks.
bruce is a male not a female. he dresses as a woman. he may be feminine. he may take meds that enhance his breasts. dude's a guy w/ a samurai sword in his pocket. his innerness may feel womanly & that's fine & stuff. bruce isn't a full on woman at all & never will be. i am sorry but that's the way it is.
Brace yourself for the volley of eggs and rotten tomatoes.
I'm getting a bit sick of this line. Is that Victim thread still open?
In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics. To summarise:
Sorry. I pasted the wrong thing....something I was looking at earlier.
This is more clear.
The distinction between sex and gender differentiates sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity).[1][2] In some circumstances, an individual's assigned sex and gender do not align, and the person may be transgender,[1] or intersex.
The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably.[3][4] Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions while others do not.
Among scientists, the term sex differences (as compared to gender differences) is typically applied to sexually dimorphic traits that are hypothesized to be evolved consequences of sexual selection.[5][6]
Society has to make up our mind how to identify people Male, Female or Transgender
They are simply men and women born with the wrong bodies.
So we should just identify them as that? - "born with the wrong body"? Do you know how belittling that suggestion is? Male, Female or Transgender, simple.
No, you identify them as whatever they with to be identified as. What's belittling? No idea what you mean. That transgendered people feel like they were born with the wrong body is basically the defining feature of being transgendered.
OK, so Bruce Jenner was a man, married, has kids and loves women and was heterosexual.
Now Bruce is Caitlyn, has boobs, his man parts, still loves women and is now a woman...
So is she a lesbian now?
I don't know. Who cares? I don't see how that makes any difference.
Why comment if you don't care then?
I thought it was an interesting question to ask...
I think part of the point is that we as a society seem to have this obsession with labelling everything, which is part of the problem. are you hetero? homo? bi?
how about "I'm just me"?
No, we have a gutless society that placates to the extreme minority. Transgender is not normal. We don't have an obsession with labeling. We just know that people are born male and female. Whether one has a chemical imbalance in the brain shouldn't add a third gender type.
Are people like Jenner bad people? No, of course not. Should they be treated with respect? Of course. But should society have to adapt to them based on their decisions about their bodies? I don't think so.
Kinda like how being gay isn't normal? I wouldn't expect a post like this in 2015......blast from the past man.
Seriously. Is it 1991 again?
This board is so predictable. I went out of my way to say I had nothing against transgender people and get treated like a devil and someone who is going to discriminate like segregation. If anyone has any links to message boards that allow differing opinions let me know.
Poor Bootlegger!
As far as I can tell, your opinion is allowed here, just like everyone else's. I guess you're really looking to find a message board where everyone agrees with you? You don't seem to appreciate others' opinions about your opinions. I've noticed that there are a whole lot of pots calling kettles black around here lately.
Look at Callen 's post below yours and tell me that he just didn't refer to people squirming as a "fuck". I have disagreed with the crowd on here on a couple subjects this week but I don't believe I have insulted any of them with name calling or a high level of personal disdain. Clearly I didn't make the point I wanted clearly (the protection of gender distinctions). People are quick to judge.
bruce is a male not a female. he dresses as a woman. he may be feminine. he may take meds that enhance his breasts. dude's a guy w/ a samurai sword in his pocket. his innerness may feel womanly & that's fine & stuff. bruce isn't a full on woman at all & never will be. i am sorry but that's the way it is.
Brace yourself for the volley of eggs and rotten tomatoes.
I'm getting a bit sick of this line. Is that Victim thread still open?
In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics. To summarise:
Sorry. I pasted the wrong thing....something I was looking at earlier.
This is more clear.
The distinction between sex and gender differentiates sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity).[1][2] In some circumstances, an individual's assigned sex and gender do not align, and the person may be transgender,[1] or intersex.
The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably.[3][4] Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions while others do not.
Among scientists, the term sex differences (as compared to gender differences) is typically applied to sexually dimorphic traits that are hypothesized to be evolved consequences of sexual selection.[5][6]
Society has to make up our mind how to identify people Male, Female or Transgender
They are simply men and women born with the wrong bodies.
So we should just identify them as that? - "born with the wrong body"? Do you know how belittling that suggestion is? Male, Female or Transgender, simple.
No, you identify them as whatever they with to be identified as. What's belittling? No idea what you mean. That transgendered people feel like they were born with the wrong body is basically the defining feature of being transgendered.
OK, so Bruce Jenner was a man, married, has kids and loves women and was heterosexual.
Now Bruce is Caitlyn, has boobs, his man parts, still loves women and is now a woman...
So is she a lesbian now?
I don't know. Who cares? I don't see how that makes any difference.
Why comment if you don't care then?
I thought it was an interesting question to ask...
I think part of the point is that we as a society seem to have this obsession with labelling everything, which is part of the problem. are you hetero? homo? bi?
how about "I'm just me"?
No, we have a gutless society that placates to the extreme minority. Transgender is not normal. We don't have an obsession with labeling. We just know that people are born male and female. Whether one has a chemical imbalance in the brain shouldn't add a third gender type.
Are people like Jenner bad people? No, of course not. Should they be treated with respect? Of course. But should society have to adapt to them based on their decisions about their bodies? I don't think so.
Kinda like how being gay isn't normal? I wouldn't expect a post like this in 2015......blast from the past man.
Seriously. Is it 1991 again?
This board is so predictable. I went out of my way to say I had nothing against transgender people and get treated like a devil and someone who is going to discriminate like segregation. If anyone has any links to message boards that allow differing opinions let me know.
Poor Bootlegger!
As far as I can tell, your opinion is allowed here, just like everyone else's. I guess you're really looking to find a message board where everyone agrees with you? You don't seem to appreciate others' opinions about your opinions. I've noticed that there are a whole lot of pots calling kettles black around here lately.
Look at Callen 's post below yours and tell me that he just didn't refer to people squirming as a "fuck". I have disagreed with the crowd on here on a couple subjects this week but I don't believe I have insulted any of them with name calling or a high level of personal disdain. Clearly I didn't make the point I wanted clearly (the protection of gender distinctions). People are quick to judge.
I do absolutely agree that harsh personal insults aren't cool (but Callen didn't say that to you personally. I think he's within his rights to say whatever he wants about non-specific groups or beliefs). Hey, it's the AMT. We all need reasonably thick skins here. For me, it's just kind of annoying to read complaints like that, and at the same time have the same people going after me for what I say (not talking about you specifically, but you do qualify). It seems fairly hypocritical. Hence the pot and kettle comment.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
bruce is a male not a female. he dresses as a woman. he may be feminine. he may take meds that enhance his breasts. dude's a guy w/ a samurai sword in his pocket. his innerness may feel womanly & that's fine & stuff. bruce isn't a full on woman at all & never will be. i am sorry but that's the way it is.
Brace yourself for the volley of eggs and rotten tomatoes.
I'm getting a bit sick of this line. Is that Victim thread still open?
In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics. To summarise:
Sorry. I pasted the wrong thing....something I was looking at earlier.
This is more clear.
The distinction between sex and gender differentiates sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity).[1][2] In some circumstances, an individual's assigned sex and gender do not align, and the person may be transgender,[1] or intersex.
The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably.[3][4] Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions while others do not.
Among scientists, the term sex differences (as compared to gender differences) is typically applied to sexually dimorphic traits that are hypothesized to be evolved consequences of sexual selection.[5][6]
Society has to make up our mind how to identify people Male, Female or Transgender
They are simply men and women born with the wrong bodies.
So we should just identify them as that? - "born with the wrong body"? Do you know how belittling that suggestion is? Male, Female or Transgender, simple.
No, you identify them as whatever they with to be identified as. What's belittling? No idea what you mean. That transgendered people feel like they were born with the wrong body is basically the defining feature of being transgendered.
OK, so Bruce Jenner was a man, married, has kids and loves women and was heterosexual.
Now Bruce is Caitlyn, has boobs, his man parts, still loves women and is now a woman...
So is she a lesbian now?
I don't know. Who cares? I don't see how that makes any difference.
Why comment if you don't care then?
I thought it was an interesting question to ask...
I think part of the point is that we as a society seem to have this obsession with labelling everything, which is part of the problem. are you hetero? homo? bi?
how about "I'm just me"?
No, we have a gutless society that placates to the extreme minority. Transgender is not normal. We don't have an obsession with labeling. We just know that people are born male and female. Whether one has a chemical imbalance in the brain shouldn't add a third gender type.
Are people like Jenner bad people? No, of course not. Should they be treated with respect? Of course. But should society have to adapt to them based on their decisions about their bodies? I don't think so.
Kinda like how being gay isn't normal? I wouldn't expect a post like this in 2015......blast from the past man.
Seriously. Is it 1991 again?
This board is so predictable. I went out of my way to say I had nothing against transgender people and get treated like a devil and someone who is going to discriminate like segregation. If anyone has any links to message boards that allow differing opinions let me know.
Yes, you very clearly stated that you have nothing against abnormal people who have chemical imbalances in their brain. We all got that.
I think we all would agree that the majority of people are born male or female and do not have urges to switch genders. It may be more than 1 in a million but it certainly isn't prevalent. So, what causes someone like Bruce Jenner to want to switch sexes? If it isn't a chemical imbalance it is something else that didn't develop normally. I didn't mean chemical imbalance as an attack but literally something genetically happened that it is causing this.
That is why I clearly went on to say that I wasn't attacking trans people but just trying to make a point we shouldn't abandon gender classifications. That is what I thought the poster ahead of me was indicating or referencing.
And clearly I indicated that it wasn't someone's choice but genetics, so you can put down the pitchforks.
It is exactly that. For example: Around 1 in 600 "males" are born with Klinefelter Syndrome, giving them an XXY chromosomal configuration, in most cases.
For those who are uneducated about gender and sex issues, do some reading, it might open your mind a bit.
bruce is a male not a female. he dresses as a woman. he may be feminine. he may take meds that enhance his breasts. dude's a guy w/ a samurai sword in his pocket. his innerness may feel womanly & that's fine & stuff. bruce isn't a full on woman at all & never will be. i am sorry but that's the way it is.
Brace yourself for the volley of eggs and rotten tomatoes.
I'm getting a bit sick of this line. Is that Victim thread still open?
In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics. To summarise:
Sorry. I pasted the wrong thing....something I was looking at earlier.
This is more clear.
The distinction between sex and gender differentiates sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity).[1][2] In some circumstances, an individual's assigned sex and gender do not align, and the person may be transgender,[1] or intersex.
The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably.[3][4] Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions while others do not.
Among scientists, the term sex differences (as compared to gender differences) is typically applied to sexually dimorphic traits that are hypothesized to be evolved consequences of sexual selection.[5][6]
Society has to make up our mind how to identify people Male, Female or Transgender
They are simply men and women born with the wrong bodies.
So we should just identify them as that? - "born with the wrong body"? Do you know how belittling that suggestion is? Male, Female or Transgender, simple.
No, you identify them as whatever they with to be identified as. What's belittling? No idea what you mean. That transgendered people feel like they were born with the wrong body is basically the defining feature of being transgendered.
OK, so Bruce Jenner was a man, married, has kids and loves women and was heterosexual.
Now Bruce is Caitlyn, has boobs, his man parts, still loves women and is now a woman...
So is she a lesbian now?
I don't know. Who cares? I don't see how that makes any difference.
Why comment if you don't care then?
I thought it was an interesting question to ask...
I think part of the point is that we as a society seem to have this obsession with labelling everything, which is part of the problem. are you hetero? homo? bi?
how about "I'm just me"?
No, we have a gutless society that placates to the extreme minority. Transgender is not normal. We don't have an obsession with labeling. We just know that people are born male and female. Whether one has a chemical imbalance in the brain shouldn't add a third gender type.
Are people like Jenner bad people? No, of course not. Should they be treated with respect? Of course. But should society have to adapt to them based on their decisions about their bodies? I don't think so.
Kinda like how being gay isn't normal? I wouldn't expect a post like this in 2015......blast from the past man.
Seriously. Is it 1991 again?
This board is so predictable. I went out of my way to say I had nothing against transgender people and get treated like a devil and someone who is going to discriminate like segregation. If anyone has any links to message boards that allow differing opinions let me know.
Poor Bootlegger!
As far as I can tell, your opinion is allowed here, just like everyone else's. I guess you're really looking to find a message board where everyone agrees with you? You don't seem to appreciate others' opinions about your opinions. I've noticed that there are a whole lot of pots calling kettles black around here lately.
Look at Callen 's post below yours and tell me that he just didn't refer to people squirming as a "fuck". I have disagreed with the crowd on here on a couple subjects this week but I don't believe I have insulted any of them with name calling or a high level of personal disdain. Clearly I didn't make the point I wanted clearly (the protection of gender distinctions). People are quick to judge.
I do absolutely agree that harsh personal insults aren't cool (but Callen didn't say that to you personally. I think he's within his rights to say whatever he wants about non-specific groups or beliefs). Hey, it's the AMT. We all need reasonably thick skins here. For me, it's just kind of annoying to read complaints like that, and at the same time have the same people going after me for what I say (not talking about you specifically, but you do qualify). It seems fairly hypocritical. Hence the pot and kettle comment.
Maybe I don't read enough threads but my perception is people with conservative or non-AMT mainstream views tend to get belittled or ganged up on. I get that is a political forum so it is going to get messy. It goes the other way too.
It would be nice to be able to post and go out of my way to say I am not discriminating or disrespecting people and not have to worry about being referred to as someone from the 50's which I took as calling me a bigot or racist. I can see why people took my chemical imbalance comment as an insult but didn't mean it that way. The pharmaceutical companies wouldn't be making all this money if there weren't chemical imbalances occurring.
I guess you're wrong, because I veer hard left, and I get belittled and ganged up on all the time around here (as I guess you would know!). I just don't bitch and whine about it constantly.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,733
Too many characters to reply to posts and on my cell phone. To comment to BrianLux's post about normal and abnormal:
I didn't mean normal as good and abnormal as bad. If 95 out of 100 apples are red then it would be normal for apples to be red.
I wasn't trying to get rid of "labels" per se. I agree labels are bad in cases but was mainly saying we shouldn't be flippant by saying male and female are just labels. These are important distinctions. Certainly they don't dictate what people can do in life but we shouldn't discard them as male and female are generally quite different from each other.
Perhaps the issue here is semantics. It's seems as though you are talking about averages or percentages. For example, it's "normal" for a man who feels like he is a woman trapped inside a man's body and who to consider being transgender. However, the majority of people probably do not think about making this decision. And yet it surely might be normal for the average person to wonder if they might be gay or wonder what it would be like too be gay. I've thought about those kinds of things. But then again, perhaps I'm not "normal".
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I guess you're wrong, because I veer hard left, and I get belittled and ganged up on all the time around here (as I guess you would know!). I just don't bitch and whine about it constantly.
I don't actually think anybody bitches and moans about it as you like to consistently frame it.
Pointing out the inevitable trend of discourse that follows once someone offers something unpopular is hardly bitching as much as it is making a point regarding inherent tendencies that, quite frankly, make this place kind of shitty at times.
I've seen the same tactic by the 'left' (using your terminology) multiple times, yet have never seen you become indignant for it. Look at the gun threads which you frequent: I can't begin to recall the amount of times people have said, "Prepare for the inevitable if only someone there had a gun" comment... or "Cue the more people die by cars" comment.
How many extreme right people have you seen banned on here? I seriously can't think of any off the top of my head. I can think of numerous extreme left people that have been banned. Why is that? Is it because moderators are right wing and cannot tolerate the left attitudes... or is it because perhaps the tendency to attack with ruthlessness rests within the left contingency?
I think you know me and I'm not deliberately trying to polarize the community any more than what it already is. I think I probably rest right of the middle given my strong stance on crime and punishment... but I have been very vocal for many significant left ideals at the same time.
I'm not picking sides is what I'm saying here: I'm only supporting the right to voice your side without getting habitually shit on (extreme positions- which almost beg for an attack- aside).
Comments
Okay here we go....
Transgender is waaaay more normal than you think or want to believe.
YES there is an obsession with labeling in our society.
It is NOT as simple as being born male or female.
Transgender is NOT about a chemical imbalance.
Their should absolutely be some adaptation in society. Not necessarily complete acquiescence. But some positive change would be nice.
Calling transgenderism a decision is the same as calling it a choice.
Yes, it really does feel like we're just regurgitating a conversation about gay people back in the 90s when everyone was freaking out about gayness because of AIDS.
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The poster above you states not normal in describing transgender.
I ask bootlegger10, to whom?
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I have no problem with people saying they believe they think it to be unnatural, that is your opinion, and can be stated in a respectful manner. but that's not what you did.
transgendered is not a third gender. it's what you call someone in the middle of their transition. once she is fully female, if she decides to do that, she will no longer be transgendered. she will be female.
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At the same time I realize that this person (assuming a man transgenders to woman) has most likely no interest in anything other than using the restroom.
I know some people would consider a gay man using a men's restroom as creepy or unacceptable, etc. It's an odd argument for sure but in the end we don't really follow each other around and keep track of gender or sexual preference.
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As far as I can tell, your opinion is allowed here, just like everyone else's. I guess you're really looking to find a message board where everyone agrees with you? You don't seem to appreciate others' opinions about your opinions.
I've noticed that there are a whole lot of pots calling kettles black around here lately.
I love that gays and transgendered humans are getting the spot light and making fucks squirm. Squirm away and know you have the problem
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I didn't mean normal as good and abnormal as bad. If 95 out of 100 apples are red then it would be normal for apples to be red.
I wasn't trying to get rid of "labels" per se. I agree labels are bad in cases but was mainly saying we shouldn't be flippant by saying male and female are just labels. These are important distinctions. Certainly they don't dictate what people can do in life but we shouldn't discard them as male and female are generally quite different from each other.
That is why I clearly went on to say that I wasn't attacking trans people but just trying to make a point we shouldn't abandon gender classifications. That is what I thought the poster ahead of me was indicating or referencing.
And clearly I indicated that it wasn't someone's choice but genetics, so you can put down the pitchforks.
Hey, it's the AMT. We all need reasonably thick skins here. For me, it's just kind of annoying to read complaints like that, and at the same time have the same people going after me for what I say (not talking about you specifically, but you do qualify). It seems fairly hypocritical. Hence the pot and kettle comment.
For example:
Around 1 in 600 "males" are born with Klinefelter Syndrome, giving them an XXY chromosomal configuration, in most cases.
For those who are uneducated about gender and sex issues, do some reading, it might open your mind a bit.
http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html#Klinefelter Syndrome
http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency
It would be nice to be able to post and go out of my way to say I am not discriminating or disrespecting people and not have to worry about being referred to as someone from the 50's which I took as calling me a bigot or racist. I can see why people took my chemical imbalance comment as an insult but didn't mean it that way. The pharmaceutical companies wouldn't be making all this money if there weren't chemical imbalances occurring.
Pointing out the inevitable trend of discourse that follows once someone offers something unpopular is hardly bitching as much as it is making a point regarding inherent tendencies that, quite frankly, make this place kind of shitty at times.
I've seen the same tactic by the 'left' (using your terminology) multiple times, yet have never seen you become indignant for it. Look at the gun threads which you frequent: I can't begin to recall the amount of times people have said, "Prepare for the inevitable if only someone there had a gun" comment... or "Cue the more people die by cars" comment.
How many extreme right people have you seen banned on here? I seriously can't think of any off the top of my head. I can think of numerous extreme left people that have been banned. Why is that? Is it because moderators are right wing and cannot tolerate the left attitudes... or is it because perhaps the tendency to attack with ruthlessness rests within the left contingency?
I think you know me and I'm not deliberately trying to polarize the community any more than what it already is. I think I probably rest right of the middle given my strong stance on crime and punishment... but I have been very vocal for many significant left ideals at the same time.
I'm not picking sides is what I'm saying here: I'm only supporting the right to voice your side without getting habitually shit on (extreme positions- which almost beg for an attack- aside).