Could You Kill a Baby Hitler?

rr165892

Brian,that was a very good movie.I liked it a lot when I saw it.

brianlux

rr165892 said:

Brian,that was a very good movie.I liked it a lot when I saw it.

Yeah, as i get older I more and more like movies based on true stories. Although I must say I would enjoy a good sci fi flick about someone going back in time and turning Hitler into a pumpkin.

Leezestarr313

PJ_Soul said:

No, he wasn't a puppet master of idiots. Those crazies were mostly smart men wth ideas of their own. That's why Hitler chose them. But i don't believe they would have gone ahead and committed the any of the atrocities that they did without Hitler bringing them together and creating the SS and facilitating them in what they did. And Hitler did indeed set himself up as the almighty ruler, and chose the men because of their unquestioning dedication to HIM as their leader. Yes, as Hitler went nuts towards tell end of the war several of them lost faith, but in wouldn't underestimate the strength of Hitler's power over them and their actions before that. Hitler worked hard at building a faithful SS and did use all of his skills of persuasion and dominance on them just like he did with the German military, just like he arranged for the Youth Nazis, etc. I do actually think you could look at it as indoctrination, even for his inner circle.

I would agree with that. It feels completely weird to us nowadays to read about the admiration people had for him. I read Goebbels' diaries, for example. He was known as a big womanizer, and at one point had a Jewish mistress. He fell so hard for her that he wanted to leave his wife and the five or how many they had children and go away with her. Then Hitler ordered him to end the relationship because the Goebbels' were such an example family for the Reich, and so he did. And yet he still admired him. They make it sound as if the had a magical aura around him. Which is something I cannot fathom, but of course my judgment is determined by what I learned. I am always happy to read about the resistance people, about those who acted good and helped people.
We just were in Amsterdam and visited the Anne Frank house. It was so haunting. I could not go through the concentration camp exhibition afterwards, it all became too much. If anyone ever can, go and see it, but order tickets before online. You can walk through the whole house and see the rooms they were hiding in. Darkened just as they were back then.
Fuck the brown shit, each and everyone of them. I would still kill a baby Hitler.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Leezestarr313 said:

PJ_Soul said:

No, he wasn't a puppet master of idiots. Those crazies were mostly smart men wth ideas of their own. That's why Hitler chose them. But i don't believe they would have gone ahead and committed the any of the atrocities that they did without Hitler bringing them together and creating the SS and facilitating them in what they did. And Hitler did indeed set himself up as the almighty ruler, and chose the men because of their unquestioning dedication to HIM as their leader. Yes, as Hitler went nuts towards tell end of the war several of them lost faith, but in wouldn't underestimate the strength of Hitler's power over them and their actions before that. Hitler worked hard at building a faithful SS and did use all of his skills of persuasion and dominance on them just like he did with the German military, just like he arranged for the Youth Nazis, etc. I do actually think you could look at it as indoctrination, even for his inner circle.

I would agree with that. It feels completely weird to us nowadays to read about the admiration people had for him. I read Goebbels' diaries, for example. He was known as a big womanizer, and at one point had a Jewish mistress. He fell so hard for her that he wanted to leave his wife and the five or how many they had children and go away with her. Then Hitler ordered him to end the relationship because the Goebbels' were such an example family for the Reich, and so he did. And yet he still admired him. They make it sound as if the had a magical aura around him. Which is something I cannot fathom, but of course my judgment is determined by what I learned. I am always happy to read about the resistance people, about those who acted good and helped people.
We just were in Amsterdam and visited the Anne Frank house. It was so haunting. I could not go through the concentration camp exhibition afterwards, it all became too much. If anyone ever can, go and see it, but order tickets before online. You can walk through the whole house and see the rooms they were hiding in. Darkened just as they were back then.
Fuck the brown shit, each and everyone of them. I would still kill a baby Hitler.

Hitler's charisma is a massive case study for leadership.

To this day, I don't get it. He wasn't the square jawed general with imposing biceps and good looks... he was kind of a rat like figure with the most ridiculous moustache in the history of moustaches. You would have thought people would have laughed at him instead of die for him.

Leezestarr313

Agreed. But that is where I wonder. Maybe we find him ugly and laughable because of history. The whole charisma thing seems utterly incomprehensible to me. The way he talked, the looks, the evil evil. I don't get it. Maybe even people from back then cannot explain it. Maybe you had to be there. I sometimes wonder if I would have fallen for that if I had lived back then. I do not think I would, but who knows.

callen

We rallied around a complete nincompoop after 9-11. Drilling for fear makes the job simple.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Leezestarr313 said:

Agreed. But that is where I wonder. Maybe we find him ugly and laughable because of history. The whole charisma thing seems utterly incomprehensible to me. The way he talked, the looks, the evil evil. I don't get it. Maybe even people from back then cannot explain it. Maybe you had to be there. I sometimes wonder if I would have fallen for that if I had lived back then. I do not think I would, but who knows.

A fair question you have asked yourself.

A German teacher I had expressed his remorse to me one day mentioning it was his generation that carried the burden of guilt for what their parents had done. I never stopped to think about that aspect of the aftermath.

Leezestarr313

Yeah I can see that in my parents. They were the ones to discover dirty secrets hidden from them by beloved relatives only to come out later and leading to a path of anger. I have a hard time dealing with the humourous / satirical way people from other countries are dealing with the nazis. To me it is no laughing matter. And even if I am a generation after my parents, the way I was raised and educated at school leaves me with some sort of feeling of guilt. I don't like flying the German flag, I feel no connection to the Bavarian style folkloristic German stuff, I would never say "I am proud to be German" (we had a discussion about this on our Europe trip and my Dad and I tried to explain it to my hubs who is American, we agreed that it would be ok to say "I am happy to be German").
Whenever someone here in America hears that I am German, they come with all these Bavarian things. They are not part of my culture, I am from the East. I went to a German / Austrian event here a couple of years ago and almost threw up in my mouth a bit. Flags everywhere, the anthems playing, it felt like at a meeting of the NSDAP. I told my hubs that I have not been long enough away from Germany to appreciate or embrace any of that Even though I think I never will.

Jason P

must. kill. baby. hitler.

Exterminate!

PJ_Soul

Leezestarr313 said:

Yeah I can see that in my parents. They were the ones to discover dirty secrets hidden from them by beloved relatives only to come out later and leading to a path of anger. I have a hard time dealing with the humourous / satirical way people from other countries are dealing with the nazis. To me it is no laughing matter. And even if I am a generation after my parents, the way I was raised and educated at school leaves me with some sort of feeling of guilt. I don't like flying the German flag, I feel no connection to the Bavarian style folkloristic German stuff, I would never say "I am proud to be German" (we had a discussion about this on our Europe trip and my Dad and I tried to explain it to my hubs who is American, we agreed that it would be ok to say "I am happy to be German").
Whenever someone here in America hears that I am German, they come with all these Bavarian things. They are not part of my culture, I am from the East. I went to a German / Austrian event here a couple of years ago and almost threw up in my mouth a bit. Flags everywhere, the anthems playing, it felt like at a meeting of the NSDAP. I told my hubs that I have not been long enough away from Germany to appreciate or embrace any of that Even though I think I never will.

Very interesting. You must really hate Oktoberfest in the US!

Leezestarr313

I never even liked it in Germany I have never went there, but I do not feel a desire to do so either. The typical view foreigners who never have been to Germany is what Bavaria is like. This is in no way typical for Germany, it is one facet of it. We are all kinds of things. We have a rich and diverse culture. It is weird to see all of that reduced to one region of a country. But oh well... What is also interesting in that respect is the whole discussion about patriotism. For a German, or at least people like me, patriotism is making you feel awkward. It gets too close to nationalism. I can see how American patriotism is a little bit different, but this is a level that I as a German will never get to about my motherland. I love Germany, don't get me wrong. But this whole patriotism thing for the country you come from is weird to me. We don't have to sing the national anthem at school. I don't even think I could get the lyrics right. It is just not as important. We do not grow up being fed that we live in the greatest country on earth. We are happy for everything we have, but we don't have to yell out the pride thing. Maybe all because of fucking Hitler. And I'd still kill a baby version of him.

PJfanwillneverleave1

Agree he was an -insert whatever you want to call him here-
Everyone is still full of shit in saying that they would kill a baby, hitler or otherwise.

rgambs

Leezestarr313 said:

Yeah I can see that in my parents. They were the ones to discover dirty secrets hidden from them by beloved relatives only to come out later and leading to a path of anger. I have a hard time dealing with the humourous / satirical way people from other countries are dealing with the nazis. To me it is no laughing matter. And even if I am a generation after my parents, the way I was raised and educated at school leaves me with some sort of feeling of guilt. I don't like flying the German flag, I feel no connection to the Bavarian style folkloristic German stuff, I would never say "I am proud to be German" (we had a discussion about this on our Europe trip and my Dad and I tried to explain it to my hubs who is American, we agreed that it would be ok to say "I am happy to be German").
Whenever someone here in America hears that I am German, they come with all these Bavarian things. They are not part of my culture, I am from the East. I went to a German / Austrian event here a couple of years ago and almost threw up in my mouth a bit. Flags everywhere, the anthems playing, it felt like at a meeting of the NSDAP. I told my hubs that I have not been long enough away from Germany to appreciate or embrace any of that Even though I think I never will.

Patriotism is bullshit anyway!

PJfanwillneverleave1

rgambs said:

Leezestarr313 said:

Yeah I can see that in my parents. They were the ones to discover dirty secrets hidden from them by beloved relatives only to come out later and leading to a path of anger. I have a hard time dealing with the humourous / satirical way people from other countries are dealing with the nazis. To me it is no laughing matter. And even if I am a generation after my parents, the way I was raised and educated at school leaves me with some sort of feeling of guilt. I don't like flying the German flag, I feel no connection to the Bavarian style folkloristic German stuff, I would never say "I am proud to be German" (we had a discussion about this on our Europe trip and my Dad and I tried to explain it to my hubs who is American, we agreed that it would be ok to say "I am happy to be German").
Whenever someone here in America hears that I am German, they come with all these Bavarian things. They are not part of my culture, I am from the East. I went to a German / Austrian event here a couple of years ago and almost threw up in my mouth a bit. Flags everywhere, the anthems playing, it felt like at a meeting of the NSDAP. I told my hubs that I have not been long enough away from Germany to appreciate or embrace any of that Even though I think I never will.

Patriotism is bullshit anyway!

Some would disagree!

rgambs

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

Leezestarr313 said:

Yeah I can see that in my parents. They were the ones to discover dirty secrets hidden from them by beloved relatives only to come out later and leading to a path of anger. I have a hard time dealing with the humourous / satirical way people from other countries are dealing with the nazis. To me it is no laughing matter. And even if I am a generation after my parents, the way I was raised and educated at school leaves me with some sort of feeling of guilt. I don't like flying the German flag, I feel no connection to the Bavarian style folkloristic German stuff, I would never say "I am proud to be German" (we had a discussion about this on our Europe trip and my Dad and I tried to explain it to my hubs who is American, we agreed that it would be ok to say "I am happy to be German").
Whenever someone here in America hears that I am German, they come with all these Bavarian things. They are not part of my culture, I am from the East. I went to a German / Austrian event here a couple of years ago and almost threw up in my mouth a bit. Flags everywhere, the anthems playing, it felt like at a meeting of the NSDAP. I told my hubs that I have not been long enough away from Germany to appreciate or embrace any of that Even though I think I never will.

Patriotism is bullshit anyway!

Some would disagree!

True, and some of those end up with grandkids that are very embarassed by their nationalistic actions.

PJfanwillneverleave1

^^^
Yes some.
Not all.

hedonist

Currently watching an episode of Anthony Bourdain visiting Istanbul; he's having a meal prepared by a local woman and her husband.

He asks her, "What do you say when people ask 'are you Turkish?' "

Her: "Yes, but it's not my fault".

Made me think of this thread and how it's weaved its way.

PJfanwillneverleave1

It could go on forever living in stigma.
At some point you have to stand up and say "this is where I am from"

hedonist

I've said that, always have and will. I get where others are coming from, though.

Leezestarr313

I always say where I am coming from. The fact that I feel awkward saying "I am proud to be German" does not mean that I am ashamed of where I come from. I am just aware of things and maybe a bit more sensitive when it comes to stuff like that. Because of where I am from