Could You Kill a Baby Hitler?

PJ_Soul

Margaret Sanger? That's a pretty huge leap you've made there. I don't believe for a second that she would have done what you're suggesting had the holocaust not occurred.

usamamasan1

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Israeli-Soldier-Costume-for-Kids-Size-M/45711518

PJ_Soul

usamamasan1 said:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Israeli-Soldier-Costume-for-Kids-Size-M/45711518

Holy crap. Well, the buying options have been removed.... I think Walmart might be in the process of correcting this idiotic mistake. I mean seriously, wtf?? Who was responsible for this being available? They need to be fired.

Godfather.

usamamasan1 said:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Israeli-Soldier-Costume-for-Kids-Size-M/45711518

ohhhhh that's classic....the little soldier even has a weapon.

Godfather.

gimmesometruth27

usamamasan1 said:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Israeli-Soldier-Costume-for-Kids-Size-M/45711518

it has been pulled. wanted to see how much it was going for. i could have used one more thing to be pissed about today.

they could have had one of an impoverished child, but if you go there on a saturday all the kids are already dressed like that.

gimmesometruth27

chadwick said:

Enkidu said:

After reading the KL concentration camp book, I looked up a photo of dead Himmler. He took a cyanide pill (hidden in his tooth) and the picture isn't grisly, he just looks like he's asleep. I like the idea of you, Chadwick, snipering his evil ass.

it made me sad when i found out himmler bit into a cyanide capsule. i mean i was hoping he was going to be hung or had suffered awhile but no, the bastard had to chomp down on a cyanide capsule taking his own life... easy way out for the chicken shit coward


dr. josef mengele, "the angel of death", this prick had a stroke while swimming & drowned at a vacation resort in brazil february 7, 1979. he's buried under the bullshit name "wolfgang gerhard”

this guy's the ultimate piece of shit who shoulda drowned a whole lot sooner

i think himmler was the worst of them all.

mengele was a monster. i read about some of his "experiments", and they were pretty much just torture for the sake of torture. he was the guy at auschwitz who greeted the trains and separated those who could work from those who went straight to the gas chambers. even if he had never physically hurt a single child the whole time he was there, he still would have been responsible for the worst pain of millions of people's lives.

brianlux

I've heard it said that a person only truly dies when somebody says their name for the last time. So I would suggest the best way to kill that guy would be to make no mention of him any more.

PJ_Soul

I do not at all agree with the idea of ignoring history or pretending something didn't happen. To me that is exactly the same as burying your head in the sand. Life is reality and craziness and the good and the bad. One of the most famous lines in history: "Never forget."

jnimhaoileoin

brianlux said:

I've heard it said that a person only truly dies when somebody says their name for the last time. So I would suggest the best way to kill that guy would be to make no mention of him any more.

Is this to be called the Voldemort approach?

jnimhaoileoin

I've hesitated to express an opinion on this thread as I don't really see any practical purpose in debating such hypotheticals. Although, perhaps it's simply that I would ask a different question. Rather than asking if you could murder a baby, which personally I know I could not, regardless of who I thought they might grow up to be, I would think it more interesting to ask what led Hitler to become the man he was and where he might have been prevented from going down that path.

Supposedly he had a normal childhood, though his father it seems did slap him about, so I'm not sure what passed as a normal childhood in early 20th century Austria. I was actually watching a documentary yesterday about his rise to power and was interested to hear that the family doctor who helped his mother was Jewish, as was someone who supported his attempts to become an artist. Why then his universal and boundless hatred of Jews?

Even if we could ascertain what it was that made him so evil and somehow turn him onto a different path, what of all those who supported him and were filled with the same hatred? Hitler did not brainwash these people, he did not have magical powers, no matter how skilled an orator he may have been. Granted, many Germans were swept along in the hysteria but the key players were intelligent men with minds of their own, Himmler, Goebbels etc. Not to mention the fact that the ease with which Hitler came to power and gained the support of a nation suggests that they were a people willing to be led in such a direction, indicating a far wider issue than a single madman.

I suppose I'm just wary of simplifying things down to the notion that Hitler was the source of all evil and that were we to wipe him from existence, such terrible events would never have occurred. It's impossible to say who else may have risen in his place, to lead a people only too ready to be led. Who's to say it mightn't even have been worse, hard as that is to imagine?

hedonist

Of course Hitler couldn't have done it alone. Many henchmen, planners, engineers, torturers, organizers, architects, shooters, decision-makers. Those who tossed families, gentle people, out of their homes. Who forced atrocities upon many with no mercy.

Honestly, from the heart, fuck them all.

I guess for me - knowing all of this - he just...represents, personifies...that evil. The depraved twisted sick fuckedupness I'll never understand, nor forget.

I actually feel it's incumbent upon me to not forget.

Whew! Good post, Jenny. Brought out something in me, for sure.

PJ_Soul

I just don't believe of those other psychos would have gotten together and done what they did without Hitler running the show and being their almighty leader. No way. Hitler handpicked those mental cases himself.

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

I do not at all agree with the idea of ignoring history or pretending something didn't happen. To me that is exactly the same as burying your head in the sand. Life is reality and craziness and the good and the bad. One of the most famous lines in history: "Never forget."

Good point and I agree and of course you know I don't stick my head in the sand. In the clouds sometimes... well .

But we have remembered A. H. long enough to build something new and better.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul said:

I just don't believe of those other psychos would have gotten together and done what they did without Hitler running the show and being their almighty leader. No way. Hitler handpicked those mental cases himself.

Wasn't the puppet master as much as he was the facilitator in my mind. He wasn't Charles Manson sitting around a fire convincing hippy idiots to go mutilate prominent white people to incite a race war.

Anti-Jewish sentiment was massive at the time.

* I wish to say that I understand there were many Germans who placed themselves and their family at great risk helping Jews during that awful time. As well... the were many others that never truly understood the magnitude of what was happening.

I referred to other genocides... but to be clear... this one is the standard for cold, ruthless, and inhuman depravity. Factory genocide. Un-freaking-believable. As awful as all events of WWII were... exposing the events of the Holocaust shocked the most hardened of people.

mickeyrat

gimmesometruth27 said:

usamamasan1 said:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Israeli-Soldier-Costume-for-Kids-Size-M/45711518

it has been pulled. wanted to see how much it was going for. i could have used one more thing to be pissed about today.

they could have had one of an impoverished child, but if you go there on a saturday all the kids are already dressed like that.

$27.44 on sale

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

I just don't believe of those other psychos would have gotten together and done what they did without Hitler running the show and being their almighty leader. No way. Hitler handpicked those mental cases himself.

Wasn't the puppet master as much as he was the facilitator in my mind. He wasn't Charles Manson sitting around a fire convincing hippy idiots to go mutilate prominent white people to incite a race war.

Anti-Jewish sentiment was massive at the time.

* I wish to say that I understand there were many Germans who placed themselves and their family at great risk helping Jews during that awful time. As well... the were many others that never truly understood the magnitude of what was happening.

I referred to other genocides... but to be clear... this one is the standard for cold, ruthless, and inhuman depravity. Factory genocide. Un-freaking-believable. As awful as all events of WWII were... exposing the events of the Holocaust shocked the most hardened of people.

No, he wasn't a puppet master of idiots. Those crazies were mostly smart men wth ideas of their own. That's why Hitler chose them. But i don't believe they would have gone ahead and committed the any of the atrocities that they did without Hitler bringing them together and creating the SS and facilitating them in what they did. And Hitler did indeed set himself up as the almighty ruler, and chose the men because of their unquestioning dedication to HIM as their leader. Yes, as Hitler went nuts towards tell end of the war several of them lost faith, but in wouldn't underestimate the strength of Hitler's power over them and their actions before that. Hitler worked hard at building a faithful SS and did use all of his skills of persuasion and dominance on them just like he did with the German military, just like he arranged for the Youth Nazis, etc. I do actually think you could look at it as indoctrination, even for his inner circle.

Enkidu

Baby Hitler is back. Jeb Bush weighs in. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jeb-bush-on-killing-baby-hitler_5640e1b6e4b0411d3071da54?eoy9zfr

brianlux

Last night we watched the movie "Woman in Gold", a really fine movie about a true story and one I recommend. After we watched it I thought about this thread a bit. The story is about Maria Altmann, a Jewish Austrian who fled Vienna when the Nazi Germany took over and terrorized Jewish residents and pillaged their homes. Later on life life, Altmann seeks to recover a beautiful, iconic Klimt painting that was stolen by Nazis. The film has a lot to do with the conflict between restitution and moving on.

After seeing the film I got to thinking about this thread and how stories like these are so much more relevant (at least to my way of thinking) than fantasizing about going back into the past and killing a baby. In fact, in the film the Altmann character visits the art school that turned down a young Hitler and she says "I wish they hadn't." So if anything, maybe it is more useful to wish that Hitler's life had taken a different turn. Maybe if he had gone to art school he would have poured his angst and emotion into works of art rather than works of cruelty and human suffering. But in the end, any wishing about the past will not change the past. It seems to me restitution and learning from history are the most useful acts.

PJ_Soul

Restitution and learning from history are definitely the most useful acts... at least until time travel is possible.
Brian, you keep trying to shoot down the game!

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

Restitution and learning from history are definitely the most useful acts... at least until time travel is possible.
Brian, you keep trying to shoot down the game!

A born rule breaker, what can I say?