Canadian Politics Redux

HughFreakingDillon

"shuttering our democracy". I just can't take things like that seriously. 

dignin

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Important information.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-carney-platform-shows-poilievre-was-right?tbref=hp

Carney is trying to appeal to as many voters as possible. That’s smart. Cutting taxes isn’t an original idea. Claiming PP “was right” is kind of funny.  

Why the sudden change in policy by the Liberals?

And why is Carney allowed to complain about the last five years of Liberal rule without a whiff of irony about his being one of Dear Justin’s advisors?

This is again the Liberals getting a sense of the wind and saying anything to keep power. With his well-established record for lying and manipulating facts, can anything Carney says be trusted (and by extension the Liberal party)?

Cuz their approval rating was in the toilet maybe? 

An advisor is just that-someone who advises another but ultimately is not the decision maker. 

All politicians get a sense of the wind. PP’s been doing this since day 1. He smelled the “we need someone like trump to lead us” blood in the water and ran with it. Now he’s sensing that wind change, so he’s trying to walk that stuff back. And he’s failing, as far as I can tell. We’ll know for sure on election night. 

Look, historically I haven’t been the type to excuse “my team” from misdeeds and lies, etc, but ever since the cons got all trumpy, I just can’t entertain voting for them. I know you’ve always tried to label JT as more trumpy than the right, but I, and I think most folks more objective than us (non-canadians), disagree with that. 

Put up a leader who doesn’t demonize immigrants, and “the left”, and I’d listen. Until then…

The Conservatives tried putting forward reasonable leaders but Canadians kept voting for Trudeau’s bombastic bullshit so the CPC decided to match Trudeau’s preaching style. Has nothing to do with Trump, despite everyone’s unsupported insinuations. It’s cute how now the PM’s resume is suddenly relevant.

Now events have turned and the Liberals went with a leader who has less charisma than Harper. By shuttering our democracy the Liberals also took away most of the attention from anything the other parties were trying to do. It was the Liberals who didn’t want a crisis to go unexploited when covid broke out, after all, and they have proven quite adept at manipulating the Canadian populace. Look at the continued hatred of your fellow citizens (the Freedom Convoy). They’re doing an excellent job of blurring the lines between Carney’s campaigning and his governing.

Do I get to laugh my ass off when others choose Carney as my Prime Minister and when his financials are finally disclosed you’ve elected a stooge for the Chinese government? That’s what I mean about voting for something, not just cock blocking someone else’s vote.

Yeah, you really were considering giving Carney a chance.

We're not stupid.

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Important information.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-carney-platform-shows-poilievre-was-right?tbref=hp

Carney is trying to appeal to as many voters as possible. That’s smart. Cutting taxes isn’t an original idea. Claiming PP “was right” is kind of funny.  

Why the sudden change in policy by the Liberals?

And why is Carney allowed to complain about the last five years of Liberal rule without a whiff of irony about his being one of Dear Justin’s advisors?

This is again the Liberals getting a sense of the wind and saying anything to keep power. With his well-established record for lying and manipulating facts, can anything Carney says be trusted (and by extension the Liberal party)?

Cuz their approval rating was in the toilet maybe? 

An advisor is just that-someone who advises another but ultimately is not the decision maker. 

All politicians get a sense of the wind. PP’s been doing this since day 1. He smelled the “we need someone like trump to lead us” blood in the water and ran with it. Now he’s sensing that wind change, so he’s trying to walk that stuff back. And he’s failing, as far as I can tell. We’ll know for sure on election night. 

Look, historically I haven’t been the type to excuse “my team” from misdeeds and lies, etc, but ever since the cons got all trumpy, I just can’t entertain voting for them. I know you’ve always tried to label JT as more trumpy than the right, but I, and I think most folks more objective than us (non-canadians), disagree with that. 

Put up a leader who doesn’t demonize immigrants, and “the left”, and I’d listen. Until then…

The Conservatives tried putting forward reasonable leaders but Canadians kept voting for Trudeau’s bombastic bullshit so the CPC decided to match Trudeau’s preaching style. Has nothing to do with Trump, despite everyone’s unsupported insinuations. It’s cute how now the PM’s resume is suddenly relevant.

Now events have turned and the Liberals went with a leader who has less charisma than Harper. By shuttering our democracy the Liberals also took away most of the attention from anything the other parties were trying to do. It was the Liberals who didn’t want a crisis to go unexploited when covid broke out, after all, and they have proven quite adept at manipulating the Canadian populace. Look at the continued hatred of your fellow citizens (the Freedom Convoy). They’re doing an excellent job of blurring the lines between Carney’s campaigning and his governing.

Do I get to laugh my ass off when others choose Carney as my Prime Minister and when his financials are finally disclosed you’ve elected a stooge for the Chinese government? That’s what I mean about voting for something, not just cock blocking someone else’s vote.

if the whole deal for you is an "I told you so", laugh away. 

If you think that’s what I want then you haven’t been paying attention.

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

"shuttering our democracy". I just can't take things like that seriously. 

Aside from the GST holiday/bribe, what legislation has passed through the House of Commons since September? And when was the last time the House sat? Leadership races have been held several times without prorogation (“shuttering our democracy”, without reasonable justification).

Maybe you should take it seriously.

DarthMaeglin

dignin said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Important information.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-carney-platform-shows-poilievre-was-right?tbref=hp

Carney is trying to appeal to as many voters as possible. That’s smart. Cutting taxes isn’t an original idea. Claiming PP “was right” is kind of funny.  

Why the sudden change in policy by the Liberals?

And why is Carney allowed to complain about the last five years of Liberal rule without a whiff of irony about his being one of Dear Justin’s advisors?

This is again the Liberals getting a sense of the wind and saying anything to keep power. With his well-established record for lying and manipulating facts, can anything Carney says be trusted (and by extension the Liberal party)?

Cuz their approval rating was in the toilet maybe? 

An advisor is just that-someone who advises another but ultimately is not the decision maker. 

All politicians get a sense of the wind. PP’s been doing this since day 1. He smelled the “we need someone like trump to lead us” blood in the water and ran with it. Now he’s sensing that wind change, so he’s trying to walk that stuff back. And he’s failing, as far as I can tell. We’ll know for sure on election night. 

Look, historically I haven’t been the type to excuse “my team” from misdeeds and lies, etc, but ever since the cons got all trumpy, I just can’t entertain voting for them. I know you’ve always tried to label JT as more trumpy than the right, but I, and I think most folks more objective than us (non-canadians), disagree with that. 

Put up a leader who doesn’t demonize immigrants, and “the left”, and I’d listen. Until then…

The Conservatives tried putting forward reasonable leaders but Canadians kept voting for Trudeau’s bombastic bullshit so the CPC decided to match Trudeau’s preaching style. Has nothing to do with Trump, despite everyone’s unsupported insinuations. It’s cute how now the PM’s resume is suddenly relevant.

Now events have turned and the Liberals went with a leader who has less charisma than Harper. By shuttering our democracy the Liberals also took away most of the attention from anything the other parties were trying to do. It was the Liberals who didn’t want a crisis to go unexploited when covid broke out, after all, and they have proven quite adept at manipulating the Canadian populace. Look at the continued hatred of your fellow citizens (the Freedom Convoy). They’re doing an excellent job of blurring the lines between Carney’s campaigning and his governing.

Do I get to laugh my ass off when others choose Carney as my Prime Minister and when his financials are finally disclosed you’ve elected a stooge for the Chinese government? That’s what I mean about voting for something, not just cock blocking someone else’s vote.

Yeah, you really were considering giving Carney a chance.

We're not stupid.

I may be an idiot, but I’m not stupid either, thanks.

Care to disprove or argue any of the substance of my post or just more put downs?

HughFreakingDillon

Cons have done the same. No one sounded the “shuttering democracy” alarm bells. 

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

Cons have done the same. No one sounded the “shuttering democracy” alarm bells. 

In one case the opposition parties weren’t going to allow the minority Conservatives to even try to govern, usurping the vote and mandate that had recently been delivered by the public.

Now, to be fair, I’m not as familiar with Harper’s second proroguing, so maybe you can educate me.

And again, Parliament doesn’t need to be closed for the governing party to run a leadership contest. Especially when we were facing fucking Trump.

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

Cons have done the same. No one sounded the “shuttering democracy” alarm bells. 

And many people cried foul then and are now seemingly using it to justify the most recent prorogation of OUR Parliament.

HughFreakingDillon

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Important information.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-carney-platform-shows-poilievre-was-right?tbref=hp

Carney is trying to appeal to as many voters as possible. That’s smart. Cutting taxes isn’t an original idea. Claiming PP “was right” is kind of funny.  

Why the sudden change in policy by the Liberals?

And why is Carney allowed to complain about the last five years of Liberal rule without a whiff of irony about his being one of Dear Justin’s advisors?

This is again the Liberals getting a sense of the wind and saying anything to keep power. With his well-established record for lying and manipulating facts, can anything Carney says be trusted (and by extension the Liberal party)?

Cuz their approval rating was in the toilet maybe? 

An advisor is just that-someone who advises another but ultimately is not the decision maker. 

All politicians get a sense of the wind. PP’s been doing this since day 1. He smelled the “we need someone like trump to lead us” blood in the water and ran with it. Now he’s sensing that wind change, so he’s trying to walk that stuff back. And he’s failing, as far as I can tell. We’ll know for sure on election night. 

Look, historically I haven’t been the type to excuse “my team” from misdeeds and lies, etc, but ever since the cons got all trumpy, I just can’t entertain voting for them. I know you’ve always tried to label JT as more trumpy than the right, but I, and I think most folks more objective than us (non-canadians), disagree with that. 

Put up a leader who doesn’t demonize immigrants, and “the left”, and I’d listen. Until then…

The Conservatives tried putting forward reasonable leaders but Canadians kept voting for Trudeau’s bombastic bullshit so the CPC decided to match Trudeau’s preaching style. Has nothing to do with Trump, despite everyone’s unsupported insinuations. It’s cute how now the PM’s resume is suddenly relevant.

Now events have turned and the Liberals went with a leader who has less charisma than Harper. By shuttering our democracy the Liberals also took away most of the attention from anything the other parties were trying to do. It was the Liberals who didn’t want a crisis to go unexploited when covid broke out, after all, and they have proven quite adept at manipulating the Canadian populace. Look at the continued hatred of your fellow citizens (the Freedom Convoy). They’re doing an excellent job of blurring the lines between Carney’s campaigning and his governing.

Do I get to laugh my ass off when others choose Carney as my Prime Minister and when his financials are finally disclosed you’ve elected a stooge for the Chinese government? That’s what I mean about voting for something, not just cock blocking someone else’s vote.

if the whole deal for you is an "I told you so", laugh away. 

If you think that’s what I want then you haven’t been paying attention.

I just found the comment out of character. That's all. 

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Important information.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-carney-platform-shows-poilievre-was-right?tbref=hp

Carney is trying to appeal to as many voters as possible. That’s smart. Cutting taxes isn’t an original idea. Claiming PP “was right” is kind of funny.  

Why the sudden change in policy by the Liberals?

And why is Carney allowed to complain about the last five years of Liberal rule without a whiff of irony about his being one of Dear Justin’s advisors?

This is again the Liberals getting a sense of the wind and saying anything to keep power. With his well-established record for lying and manipulating facts, can anything Carney says be trusted (and by extension the Liberal party)?

Cuz their approval rating was in the toilet maybe? 

An advisor is just that-someone who advises another but ultimately is not the decision maker. 

All politicians get a sense of the wind. PP’s been doing this since day 1. He smelled the “we need someone like trump to lead us” blood in the water and ran with it. Now he’s sensing that wind change, so he’s trying to walk that stuff back. And he’s failing, as far as I can tell. We’ll know for sure on election night. 

Look, historically I haven’t been the type to excuse “my team” from misdeeds and lies, etc, but ever since the cons got all trumpy, I just can’t entertain voting for them. I know you’ve always tried to label JT as more trumpy than the right, but I, and I think most folks more objective than us (non-canadians), disagree with that. 

Put up a leader who doesn’t demonize immigrants, and “the left”, and I’d listen. Until then…

The Conservatives tried putting forward reasonable leaders but Canadians kept voting for Trudeau’s bombastic bullshit so the CPC decided to match Trudeau’s preaching style. Has nothing to do with Trump, despite everyone’s unsupported insinuations. It’s cute how now the PM’s resume is suddenly relevant.

Now events have turned and the Liberals went with a leader who has less charisma than Harper. By shuttering our democracy the Liberals also took away most of the attention from anything the other parties were trying to do. It was the Liberals who didn’t want a crisis to go unexploited when covid broke out, after all, and they have proven quite adept at manipulating the Canadian populace. Look at the continued hatred of your fellow citizens (the Freedom Convoy). They’re doing an excellent job of blurring the lines between Carney’s campaigning and his governing.

Do I get to laugh my ass off when others choose Carney as my Prime Minister and when his financials are finally disclosed you’ve elected a stooge for the Chinese government? That’s what I mean about voting for something, not just cock blocking someone else’s vote.

if the whole deal for you is an "I told you so", laugh away. 

If you think that’s what I want then you haven’t been paying attention.

I just found the comment out of character. That's all. 

I think it’s a fair point all the same, and I’d be laughing through tears of dismay, just to be crystal clear.

HughFreakingDillon

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Cons have done the same. No one sounded the “shuttering democracy” alarm bells. 

And many people cried foul then and are now seemingly using it to justify the most recent prorogation of OUR Parliament.

It's all just strategy. Unfortunately, many of these rules, as we see down in the US, were intended for use only when absolutely necessary. There's no real verbiage that disallows it at the PM's discretion. He did it so he wouldn't face a confidence vote prior to being able to get a new leader in place. We both know that. He would have likely faced one and PP would be in power right now. So, while I fully understand the frustration of those who don't like it when "their side" is on the receiving end, these things tend not to rile me up so much as I know it's not illegal, and I know they all do it. I don't like to minimize it by saying it's a game, but it honestly really is. 

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Cons have done the same. No one sounded the “shuttering democracy” alarm bells. 

And many people cried foul then and are now seemingly using it to justify the most recent prorogation of OUR Parliament.

It's all just strategy. Unfortunately, many of these rules, as we see down in the US, were intended for use only when absolutely necessary. There's no real verbiage that disallows it at the PM's discretion. He did it so he wouldn't face a confidence vote prior to being able to get a new leader in place. We both know that. He would have likely faced one and PP would be in power right now. So, while I fully understand the frustration of those who don't like it when "their side" is on the receiving end, these things tend not to rile me up so much as I know it's not illegal, and I know they all do it. I don't like to minimize it by saying it's a game, but it honestly really is. 

In normal times I might agree with you, but we know it’s not and the Liberals move was entirely self-serving putting their party above country. Why? You nailed it, because with Trudeau as leader they would have been lucky to fit in a minivan after an election. But he hung on desperately so far beyond his due date that even many here started saying he had to go, so their only option was to deny the people proper representation during what could easily be described as a time of crisis.

Natural governing party of raping democracy is what this proves them to be beyond a doubt. If you want another clue, look at how much governing occurred through Orders-in-Council (our equivalent of the Executive Order) during the last decade. Hint, it’s A LOT, showing a disdain for the legislative process.

And yes, I’m being hyperbolic because simply presenting the facts gets ignored and draws putdowns.

HughFreakingDillon

yeah, I'm confident all political parties will be self serving in that regard if they believe it will succeed in retaining power. And I'm also confident all political parties cry foul when the other does it. 

I would imagine there'd naturally be an increase in OIC's when the governing party is in the minority. There are ways of overturning those, so those don't concern me as much. Trump's EO's did concern me mainly because they were 99% asshole moves. 

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

yeah, I'm confident all political parties will be self serving in that regard if they believe it will succeed in retaining power. And I'm also confident all political parties cry foul when the other does it. 

I would imagine there'd naturally be an increase in OIC's when the governing party is in the minority. There are ways of overturning those, so those don't concern me as much. Trump's EO's did concern me mainly because they were 99% asshole moves. 

They all do it so it’s no big deal it was done during a crisis? That’s when we MOST need a functioning democracy, not rule by edict with no oversight. But that’s the currently preferred method of governance for Canada’s Liberals.

Many people saw Trudeau’s excessive OICs as asshole moves, like his gun bans which have yet to be legislated and debated. He doubled Harper’s OICs which was who the article I read months ago compared Trudeau to. And lets not forget the stalemate the Liberals forced in Parliament prior to shuttering through prorogation. Why? Because the Liberals wouldn’t respect the will of the House and rulings against them by the Speaker. Yeah, business as usual in Canadian politics.

erebus

Who was holding things up in parliament before the shut down?

and question period is an absolute embarrassment on all sides

HughFreakingDillon

erebus said:

Who was holding things up in parliament before the shut down?

and question period is an absolute embarrassment on all sides

been saying this for years. an absolute performative waste. 

HughFreakingDillon

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yeah, I'm confident all political parties will be self serving in that regard if they believe it will succeed in retaining power. And I'm also confident all political parties cry foul when the other does it. 

I would imagine there'd naturally be an increase in OIC's when the governing party is in the minority. There are ways of overturning those, so those don't concern me as much. Trump's EO's did concern me mainly because they were 99% asshole moves. 

They all do it so it’s no big deal it was done during a crisis? That’s when we MOST need a functioning democracy, not rule by edict with no oversight. But that’s the currently preferred method of governance for Canada’s Liberals.

Many people saw Trudeau’s excessive OICs as asshole moves, like his gun bans which have yet to be legislated and debated. He doubled Harper’s OICs which was who the article I read months ago compared Trudeau to. And lets not forget the stalemate the Liberals forced in Parliament prior to shuttering through prorogation. Why? Because the Liberals wouldn’t respect the will of the House and rulings against them by the Speaker. Yeah, business as usual in Canadian politics.

do we respect the courts or not?

OTTAWA — A federal judge has dismissed a legal challenge of Justin Trudeau’s move to prorogue Parliament, concluding the prime minister did not exceed the bounds of his authority.

HughFreakingDillon

what would parliament had accomplished during this "crisis"? they would have bitched and argued and looked to get their sound bites on evening news. that's it. seems like it was handled as well as it could have been, prorogation or not. 

DarthMaeglin

erebus said:

Who was holding things up in parliament before the shut down?

and question period is an absolute embarrassment on all sides

You got me. It was the opposition parties, because the Liberal government wasn’t producing the unredacted documents they were ordered to by the will of the House and rulings against them by the Speaker of the House.

However, had the government produced the required documents then the logjam would have lifted.

Chicken or the egg?

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

what would parliament had accomplished during this "crisis"? they would have bitched and argued and looked to get their sound bites on evening news. that's it. seems like it was handled as well as it could have been, prorogation or not. 

Yes, The Anointed One has done quite well. Or has he? Who knows, honestly? I’d personally prefer democratic oversight of the government, not the edicts we currently call governing.

 I don’t understand this comfort with having no real representation in a time of crisis? And the same idiots who screwed up the country are acting like it was someone else, acting entitled to continue.

We’ll really be able to resist American influence when Carney’s Carbon Tariff gets enacted, won’t we? He’s sure to support getting our resources to international markets, especially after saying they should all stay in the ground, right?