Canadian Politics Redux

DarthMaeglin

Nothing to see here, obviously.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/brookfield-used-cayman-islands-to-register-3rd-fund-managed-by-carney-1.7506817

Original_Shifty

"Poilievre just called CTV News’ Judy Trinh a “protester” because she dared try to ask him a question outside of the incredibly rigid four-questions-no-follow-up process his party has."

PP trying his best to act like mini Trump. PP and the Cons showing their true facsist colours.

"A journalist shouted a question at Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre during a campaign stop in Sault Ste. Marie, Ont., on Wednesday. The journalist was not on the list of people allotted a question, which the Conservative Party limits to four per day. Poilievre had been asked previously by another reporter about donations the Conservatives received from groups associated with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi's political party."

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.6717169

dignin

Original_Shifty said:

"Poilievre just called CTV News’ Judy Trinh a “protester” because she dared try to ask him a question outside of the incredibly rigid four-questions-no-follow-up process his party has."

PP trying his best to act like mini Trump. PP and the Cons showing their true facsist colours.

"A journalist shouted a question at Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre during a campaign stop in Sault Ste. Marie, Ont., on Wednesday. The journalist was not on the list of people allotted a question, which the Conservative Party limits to four per day. Poilievre had been asked previously by another reporter about donations the Conservatives received from groups associated with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi's political party."

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.6717169

Yup, Trump playbook that plays well with the base.

Hopefully it continues to turn off normal people.

Parksy

DarthMaeglin said:

Nothing to see here, obviously.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/brookfield-used-cayman-islands-to-register-3rd-fund-managed-by-carney-1.7506817

Just curious... where do you see the problem here? Unless the news story is lying etc... everything done here was legal. 

What am I missing? 

DarthMaeglin

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Nothing to see here, obviously.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/brookfield-used-cayman-islands-to-register-3rd-fund-managed-by-carney-1.7506817

Just curious... where do you see the problem here? Unless the news story is lying etc... everything done here was legal. 

What am I missing? 

Again, as Hugh and I established the other day, legal doesn’t mean morally correct.

And in this case it raises the issue of a guy who’s currently claiming he’s “all in, elbows up” for Canada but has actively worked to deny the Canadian government substantial (billions of dollars it’s been reported) tax revenues. If his THREE offshore companies had paid the appropriate taxes then maybe the Trudeau Liberals wouldn’t have so easily blown past ALL their deficit predictions.

Carney still has some BIG questions to answer around his finances and when the press asks him he gets all Trumpian/Trudeauian in calling stories false.

Since I expect a quick deflection to Poilievre, I’ll ask two questions: has Poilievre disclosed his finances? And how many offshore (tax-evading) investment funds does he hold?

DarthMaeglin

I think this is an acceptable source around here and while it isn’t a full accounting it does give one a good sense of what the other leaders have disclosed.

Seems like everyone’s embracing transparency on this except for the current Prime Minister. But Carney’s following the rules so I suspect that will justify his lack of transparency.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/election-2025-leaders-assets-1.7499198

DarthMaeglin

This reads to me as a credible story, with the obvious gap of who’s directly responsible. But this is the riding Carney’s running in.

Did anyone ask the Chinese embassy where they were at the time of the incidents, lol?

https://torontosun.com/news/national/federal_elections/conservative-candidate-for-nepean-says-hundreds-of-election-signs-missing?tbref=hp

PJ_Soul

And this.

‘Discriminatory slurs’: RCMP investigating after NDP election signs vandalized in Alberta town

https://www.ctvnews.ca/calgary/article/discriminatory-slurs-rcmp-investigating-after-ndp-election-signs-vandalized-in-alberta-town/

I really can't imagine being a person who does stuff like this. And really, how much impact di these signs have? Have there been studies? Do people actually vote a certain way just because they see lawn signs? I wouldn't have really guessed that someone who would be influenced that way would also be someone who bothers to vote at all. Well actually, racists who put hate speech on the signs of a left party is something different altogether. They almost certainly vote for the party they think aligns with their racism best.

DarthMaeglin

PJ_Soul said:

And this.

‘Discriminatory slurs’: RCMP investigating after NDP election signs vandalized in Alberta town

https://www.ctvnews.ca/calgary/article/discriminatory-slurs-rcmp-investigating-after-ndp-election-signs-vandalized-in-alberta-town/

I really can't imagine being a person who does stuff like this. And really, how much impact di these signs have? Have there been studies? Do people actually vote a certain way just because they see lawn signs? I wouldn't have really guessed that someone who would be influenced that way would also be someone who bothers to vote at all. Well actually, racists who put hate speech on the signs of a left party is something different altogether. They almost certainly vote for the party they think aligns with their racism best.

While I don’t agree with your last sentence I agree that what was done is unacceptable. As a young punk I kicked over signs for all parties but I stopped doing that long ago and my friends and I never turned it racist.

As far as signs influencing the outcome it is hard to say how much it plays in (I do think it has some influence) but I also see another valid reason for putting up a sign: pride in the party one has chosen to support.

DarthMaeglin

Continuing the sad theme of election sign vandalism, as I was riding the bus to a friend’s place I noticed that virtually all of a Liberal candidate’s signs had been kicked out or something, rendering them unusable.

 I realize many here would characterize me as hating the Liberals, but all the cases cited so far are utterly unacceptable, I hope we can all agree on that.

As I rode along it became clear that the Conservative candidate’s signs were unmolested and eventually I spotted untouched NDP signs, making it clear this was a coordinated effort.

Now, to clarify an earlier article I posted, just like the Carney campaign’s shenanigans I don’t believe the candidate is directing their supporters to do this. Overzealousness on all sides is a common feature of elections and politics in general.

Hopefully the perpetrators in all cases (including PJ Soul’s report) are identified and charged. Here’s a shitty picture of what I saw.

DarthMaeglin

Seriously, what the fuck, Liberals? What are you, 6 years old? Plausible deniability means it was a couple rogue operatives of course.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberal-oppo-csfn-1.7509217

DarthMaeglin

Instead of firing the campaign workers who got “carried away” they just get reassigned within the campaign. What sort of message does that send about Carney’s future governance?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/livestory/canada-election-liberal-staffers-who-planted-trump-style-buttons-reassigned-within-campaign-carney-says-9.6722644

Parksy

DarthMaeglin said:

Instead of firing the campaign workers who got “carried away” they just get reassigned within the campaign. What sort of message does that send about Carney’s future governance?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/livestory/canada-election-liberal-staffers-who-planted-trump-style-buttons-reassigned-within-campaign-carney-says-9.6722644

Would it have even been feasible to straight up fire these folks?  It's a legit question after conversing with some friends over the weekend about their respective jobs and how difficult it is to fire employees within their organizations. 

That said as well...    and  while I get what you're getting at... it sends a poor message the other way as well when you have a leader who fires people willy nilly for something like this.  It's my understanding that they (Liberals) acknowledged the mistake and admitted wrong doing.  Just my take. 

Parksy

DarthMaeglin said:

Continuing the sad theme of election sign vandalism, as I was riding the bus to a friend’s place I noticed that virtually all of a Liberal candidate’s signs had been kicked out or something, rendering them unusable.

 I realize many here would characterize me as hating the Liberals, but all the cases cited so far are utterly unacceptable, I hope we can all agree on that.

As I rode along it became clear that the Conservative candidate’s signs were unmolested and eventually I spotted untouched NDP signs, making it clear this was a coordinated effort.

Now, to clarify an earlier article I posted, just like the Carney campaign’s shenanigans I don’t believe the candidate is directing their supporters to do this. Overzealousness on all sides is a common feature of elections and politics in general.

Hopefully the perpetrators in all cases (including PJ Soul’s report) are identified and charged. Here’s a shitty picture of what I saw.

I think a misstep the Conservatives are making here is not acknowledging the behaviour against Liberals. 

Not sure when.. but I want to say it was around a year ago or so.. former leader O'Toole wrote an Op-Ed condemning the "F Trudeau" flags. 

And while flags, signs etc. are well within freedoms of expression, Conservative leaders also have the ability and freedom to condemn that of which is completely poor judgement. 

I can only utilize my own personal observations here and without getting into a "what aboutism" debate... I can say that what I've been seeing personally over the last 5-6 years is vitriol from anti-Liberal actors.  Whether it's the F Trudeau signs... which some have become F Carney signs in my neighbourhood .... to folks online who share hatred and vitriol against the Liberals to people defacing Liberal signs.   None of this is good. Full stop. And I haven't seen PP condemn any of it.  Matter of fact.. to me he sides very much with those who are not so much Pro Conservative... but very much Anti-Liberal.   It's one of the main reasons I don't want to support him. 

It's bullying in a lot of ways. And it has become pattern and perpetuation. 

DarthMaeglin

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Instead of firing the campaign workers who got “carried away” they just get reassigned within the campaign. What sort of message does that send about Carney’s future governance?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/livestory/canada-election-liberal-staffers-who-planted-trump-style-buttons-reassigned-within-campaign-carney-says-9.6722644

Would it have even been feasible to straight up fire these folks?  It's a legit question after conversing with some friends over the weekend about their respective jobs and how difficult it is to fire employees within their organizations. 

That said as well...    and  while I get what you're getting at... it sends a poor message the other way as well when you have a leader who fires people willy nilly for something like this.  It's my understanding that they (Liberals) acknowledged the mistake and admitted wrong doing.  Just my take. 

My take is that this should be a clear case of dismissal with cause, unless the incident goes higher up the chain, in which case the campaign workers get the “I was ordered to do it” defence.

I strongly suspect there’s more to this story but the media cycle has seemingly already moved on, just as the Liberals wanted when they got caught.

The elections law was quoted in an article I read and a reasonable reading makes a strong case for charges, with penalties of fines or up to five years in prison. I can only trust the appropriate authorities are conducting a full investigation. 

DarthMaeglin

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Continuing the sad theme of election sign vandalism, as I was riding the bus to a friend’s place I noticed that virtually all of a Liberal candidate’s signs had been kicked out or something, rendering them unusable.

 I realize many here would characterize me as hating the Liberals, but all the cases cited so far are utterly unacceptable, I hope we can all agree on that.

As I rode along it became clear that the Conservative candidate’s signs were unmolested and eventually I spotted untouched NDP signs, making it clear this was a coordinated effort.

Now, to clarify an earlier article I posted, just like the Carney campaign’s shenanigans I don’t believe the candidate is directing their supporters to do this. Overzealousness on all sides is a common feature of elections and politics in general.

Hopefully the perpetrators in all cases (including PJ Soul’s report) are identified and charged. Here’s a shitty picture of what I saw.

I think a misstep the Conservatives are making here is not acknowledging the behaviour against Liberals. 

Not sure when.. but I want to say it was around a year ago or so.. former leader O'Toole wrote an Op-Ed condemning the "F Trudeau" flags. 

And while flags, signs etc. are well within freedoms of expression, Conservative leaders also have the ability and freedom to condemn that of which is completely poor judgement. 

I can only utilize my own personal observations here and without getting into a "what aboutism" debate... I can say that what I've been seeing personally over the last 5-6 years is vitriol from anti-Liberal actors.  Whether it's the F Trudeau signs... which some have become F Carney signs in my neighbourhood .... to folks online who share hatred and vitriol against the Liberals to people defacing Liberal signs.   None of this is good. Full stop. And I haven't seen PP condemn any of it.  Matter of fact.. to me he sides very much with those who are not so much Pro Conservative... but very much Anti-Liberal.   It's one of the main reasons I don't want to support him. 

It's bullying in a lot of ways. And it has become pattern and perpetuation. 

Going back a couple months there was a visceral disgust with Trudeau and his government, which went across political lines. So while it’s likely that the incident I saw was done by Conservative supporters, it’s entirely plausible that it was a random person or two who haven’t been won over by the “Under New Management” sign the Liberals put up.

There’s also the incident I pointed out in Carney’s own riding, seemingly done by his team (certainly we can say his supporters).

Which leads me to having to point out that the vitriol flows on all sides. The most obvious example to me is the continued hatred regularly expressed towards the Freedom Convoy (alternately referred to as the Occupation of Ottawa). At no point did Trudeau or his government do anything to ease the divide (that they themselves purposely aggravated during the event), and people still feel justified denigrating their fellow citizens.

And you’re right, it’s all a pattern of bullying.

dignin

DarthMaeglin said:

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Continuing the sad theme of election sign vandalism, as I was riding the bus to a friend’s place I noticed that virtually all of a Liberal candidate’s signs had been kicked out or something, rendering them unusable.

 I realize many here would characterize me as hating the Liberals, but all the cases cited so far are utterly unacceptable, I hope we can all agree on that.

As I rode along it became clear that the Conservative candidate’s signs were unmolested and eventually I spotted untouched NDP signs, making it clear this was a coordinated effort.

Now, to clarify an earlier article I posted, just like the Carney campaign’s shenanigans I don’t believe the candidate is directing their supporters to do this. Overzealousness on all sides is a common feature of elections and politics in general.

Hopefully the perpetrators in all cases (including PJ Soul’s report) are identified and charged. Here’s a shitty picture of what I saw.

I think a misstep the Conservatives are making here is not acknowledging the behaviour against Liberals. 

Not sure when.. but I want to say it was around a year ago or so.. former leader O'Toole wrote an Op-Ed condemning the "F Trudeau" flags. 

And while flags, signs etc. are well within freedoms of expression, Conservative leaders also have the ability and freedom to condemn that of which is completely poor judgement. 

I can only utilize my own personal observations here and without getting into a "what aboutism" debate... I can say that what I've been seeing personally over the last 5-6 years is vitriol from anti-Liberal actors.  Whether it's the F Trudeau signs... which some have become F Carney signs in my neighbourhood .... to folks online who share hatred and vitriol against the Liberals to people defacing Liberal signs.   None of this is good. Full stop. And I haven't seen PP condemn any of it.  Matter of fact.. to me he sides very much with those who are not so much Pro Conservative... but very much Anti-Liberal.   It's one of the main reasons I don't want to support him. 

It's bullying in a lot of ways. And it has become pattern and perpetuation. 

Which leads me to having to point out that the vitriol flows on all sides. The most obvious example to me is the continued hatred regularly expressed towards the Freedom Convoy (alternately referred to as the Occupation of Ottawa). At no point did Trudeau or his government do anything to ease the divide (that they themselves purposely aggravated during the event), and people still feel justified denigrating their fellow citizens.

You misspelled clown convoy, who also go by the term traitors.

HughFreakingDillon

I guess some wished Trudeau would have given his equivalent of "good people on both sides" speech? The freedom convoy was a small group of loons that virtually no one cared about, except people that hate JT, and harassed a large portion of the public just trying to live their lives, all for virtually nothing but right wing virtue signaling. Yes, let's encourage that behaviour by giving them an ear with the PM. He was right to call them out for what they were. When it's your side it's "speaking truth to power" when it's the other side it's "division" and "bullying". 

DE4173

HughFreakingDillon said:

I guess some wished Trudeau would have given his equivalent of "good people on both sides" speech? The freedom convoy was a small group of loons that virtually no one cared about, except people that hate JT, and harassed a large portion of the public just trying to live their lives, all for virtually nothing but right wing virtue signaling. Yes, let's encourage that behaviour by giving them an ear with the PM. He was right to call them out for what they were. When it's your side it's "speaking truth to power" when it's the other side it's "division" and "bullying". 

The edited version or full version from the press conference?

DarthMaeglin

Point proven, thank you.