Canadian Politics Redux

DarthMaeglin

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Maybe I am an outlier, having essentially grown up (moved here just before my 6th birthday) in multicultural Toronto. Ethnicity and race were always the lowest blows when cutting each other down. Being in French Immersion my class was mostly white (moreso than the English classes it seemed), but all the minorities were represented in my class and we all got along fine, fortunately.

Being interested in history also likely exposed me earlier to the offence black/brownface caused.

All that said, as a drama student, then teacher, Trudeau should have known the history of that practice. In my opinion, obviously.

Edit:  Forgot to give credit to my parents for raising me not to be racist as another influence.

If memory serves correct, there was a total of one black family in my town when I was growing up - a black Baptist preacher, who moved there from the US, and his family. I would not doubt that they experienced a bucketload of racism, but I don't actually know. Very few people of other nationalities at that time. It was very white, with the exception of First Nations people, and we all know the systemic racism that they face(d).

Lack of diversity gives fewer opportunities to learn about racism. 

I completely agree, time and place play a huge role in how one learns about the issue. I do count myself as fortunate in that regard, believe me!

oftenreading

DarthMaeglin said:

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Maybe I am an outlier, having essentially grown up (moved here just before my 6th birthday) in multicultural Toronto. Ethnicity and race were always the lowest blows when cutting each other down. Being in French Immersion my class was mostly white (moreso than the English classes it seemed), but all the minorities were represented in my class and we all got along fine, fortunately.

Being interested in history also likely exposed me earlier to the offence black/brownface caused.

All that said, as a drama student, then teacher, Trudeau should have known the history of that practice. In my opinion, obviously.

Edit:  Forgot to give credit to my parents for raising me not to be racist as another influence.

If memory serves correct, there was a total of one black family in my town when I was growing up - a black Baptist preacher, who moved there from the US, and his family. I would not doubt that they experienced a bucketload of racism, but I don't actually know. Very few people of other nationalities at that time. It was very white, with the exception of First Nations people, and we all know the systemic racism that they face(d).

Lack of diversity gives fewer opportunities to learn about racism. 

I completely agree, time and place play a huge role in how one learns about the issue. I do count myself as fortunate in that regard, believe me!

Whatever deficiencies there were in my upbringing, I doubt that I would have wanted them remedied by moving to Toronto  

DarthMaeglin

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Maybe I am an outlier, having essentially grown up (moved here just before my 6th birthday) in multicultural Toronto. Ethnicity and race were always the lowest blows when cutting each other down. Being in French Immersion my class was mostly white (moreso than the English classes it seemed), but all the minorities were represented in my class and we all got along fine, fortunately.

Being interested in history also likely exposed me earlier to the offence black/brownface caused.

All that said, as a drama student, then teacher, Trudeau should have known the history of that practice. In my opinion, obviously.

Edit:  Forgot to give credit to my parents for raising me not to be racist as another influence.

If memory serves correct, there was a total of one black family in my town when I was growing up - a black Baptist preacher, who moved there from the US, and his family. I would not doubt that they experienced a bucketload of racism, but I don't actually know. Very few people of other nationalities at that time. It was very white, with the exception of First Nations people, and we all know the systemic racism that they face(d).

Lack of diversity gives fewer opportunities to learn about racism. 

I completely agree, time and place play a huge role in how one learns about the issue. I do count myself as fortunate in that regard, believe me!

Whatever deficiencies there were in my upbringing, I doubt that I would have wanted them remedied by moving to Toronto  

Growing up here was...interesting, for sure, at times I wished we’d never moved from Picton (a small Ontario town with heavenly beaches), lol.

And I hope I didn’t imply your (or anyone’s) upbringing was deficient, different is all, lol.

Meltdown99

I grew up in a small town 99% white.  I knew it was wrong because my mom told us kids it was wrong...

Trudeau is not fit to lead.  

Meltdown99

If that was sheer or another conservative the entire Canadian media would be calling for his removal.  If I am a conservative premier I’d be smiling ear to ear.  That smug little prick  will not be admonish the conservative premiers anymore.

He is from Quebec.  Not exactly a tolerant place.

dignin

I don't believe anyone would have batted an eye at this back in 2001.  

This is not the same as a white man in blackface in the South, not the same problematic history.

So this is a big meh for me. A stupid embarrassing mistake, we've all made them.

HughFreakingDillon

dignin said:

I don't believe anyone would have batted an eye at this back in 2001.  

This is not the same as a white man in blackface in the South, not the same problematic history.

So this is a big meh for me. A stupid embarrassing mistake, we've all made them.

correct. the only outrage I see is from highly partisan folks, and people engaged in outrage culture. I have seen brown and black folks everywhere who have stated "this doesn't bother me". 

now, that douche "comedian" that got hired/fired from SNL. totally justified in my eyes. 

dignin

HughFreakingDillon said:

dignin said:

I don't believe anyone would have batted an eye at this back in 2001.  

This is not the same as a white man in blackface in the South, not the same problematic history.

So this is a big meh for me. A stupid embarrassing mistake, we've all made them.

correct. 

This is where I'm at.

HughFreakingDillon

dignin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

dignin said:

I don't believe anyone would have batted an eye at this back in 2001.  

This is not the same as a white man in blackface in the South, not the same problematic history.

So this is a big meh for me. A stupid embarrassing mistake, we've all made them.

correct. 

This is where I'm at.

what's funny is that scheer can't even legitimately use this as ammunition against trudeau after his "I forgive people who apologize and move on" statement about his mp's. 

oftenreading

dignin said:

I don't believe anyone would have batted an eye at this back in 2001.  

This is not the same as a white man in blackface in the South, not the same problematic history.

So this is a big meh for me. A stupid embarrassing mistake, we've all made them.

You may be right. Like I said, I don't have 2001 mores firmly fixed in my mind. 

I do also see "Blackface", with it's connections to the American south, slavery, etc., as having quite different historical roots than dressing up as a fictional character for a costume party (and Arabian Nights is fiction). You dressed up as an elf, as an orc, as Superman or as a djin or an "Arab prince" or whatever the hell that costume was supposed to be - almost no one would have seen a difference at that time. Now, of course, it’s seen differently, and rightly so. 

I do think that any Canadian older than about 40 who says that they would have seen this as racist in high school is bullshitting. 

rustneversleeps

this is appalling. 

Meltdown99

A 3rd incident has now been reported.  I lovee it when the turd who has no problem accusing others of being racist is, in fact, a racist...

Starting to make Harper look like the decent human and Trudeau is the creep most of us knew he was...

HughFreakingDillon

he already admitted to two incidents, one being when he was in high school. calling him a racist is funny shit. just so fucking stupid. 

oftenreading

Meltdown99 said:

A 3rd incident has now been reported.  I lovee it when the turd who has no problem accusing others of being racist is, in fact, a racist...

Starting to make Harper look like the decent human and Trudeau is the creep most of us knew he was...

I wonder what is more racist - dressing up as Aladdin in 2001, or saying in 2019 that Canada should not accept any more refugees because the country is “full” and we don’t need any more of the disruption those people bring? 

HughFreakingDillon

oftenreading said:

Meltdown99 said:

A 3rd incident has now been reported.  I lovee it when the turd who has no problem accusing others of being racist is, in fact, a racist...

Starting to make Harper look like the decent human and Trudeau is the creep most of us knew he was...

I wonder what is more racist - dressing up as Aladdin in 2001, or saying in 2019 that Canada should not accept any more refugees because the country is “full” and we don’t need any more of the disruption those people bring? 

all politicians are scum, don't ya know? so it makes sense to just come into this thread to post memes and do nothing but bitch about everything! 

DarthMaeglin

Maybe I need to clarify a bit. The costume itself was fine, it was the “makeup” that pushed it over the top.

I could maybe forgive the high school incident out of ignorance, but as a grown man (in a position of authority no less) he really should have known better.

The Liberals did do a good job of backing Scheer into a corner though.

oftenreading

DarthMaeglin said:

Maybe I need to clarify a bit. The costume itself was fine, it was the “makeup” that pushed it over the top.

I could maybe forgive the high school incident out of ignorance, but as a grown man (in a position of authority no less) he really should have known better.

The Liberals did do a good job of backing Scheer into a corner though.

That brings up a good question, though - is the costume itself “fine”, without the makeup? It still represents a (fictional) Arab person. Is it caricature? At what point, if any, is it innocent and at what point does it cross a line? 

HughFreakingDillon

DarthMaeglin said:

Maybe I need to clarify a bit. The costume itself was fine, it was the “makeup” that pushed it over the top.

I could maybe forgive the high school incident out of ignorance, but as a grown man (in a position of authority no less) he really should have known better.

The Liberals did do a good job of backing Scheer into a corner though.

ok, so forgive my ignorance on this issue, but why is the costume ok but the makeup not? shouldn't it be all or none? alladin has brown skin (although, not brown enough in the disney movie, which is ironic if you think about it now-he's imitating a character in the hue brown people wanted in the movie, and now he's vilified for portraying that character in kind), so why is the rest of the costume forgivable? it's no different than wearing a mask with a brown tint to it. 

I am now seeing Ted Danson being dragged through the mud "again" for wearing black face in 1993 (with Whoopi Goldberg laughing next to him, no less) and using this as "proof" that Trudeau should have known better. JT is 2 years older than me, and I don't recall anything about the Ted Danson incident. Not a whip. 

Again, I don't think people should be judged on past mistakes based on today's highly scrutinized new rules. If he did it now? Sure. or if he was wearing a white hood and his date was wearing black face, ok. But this is a fucking costume. he wasn't denigrating anyone. And all logic and common sense (and GASP! his political record with minorities!) tells us he is not a racist in the fucking least. anyone who claims otherwise just hates him for political reasons. 

But hey, justin haters don't like to go on his record. Unless it's unfavourable to him. But when it's favourable, it's ignored for something ridiculous. 

dignin

DarthMaeglin said:

Maybe I need to clarify a bit. The costume itself was fine, it was the “makeup” that pushed it over the top.

I could maybe forgive the high school incident out of ignorance, but as a grown man (in a position of authority no less) he really should have known better.

The Liberals did do a good job of backing Scheer into a corner though.

I don't disagree. But it was a long time ago and he has apologised. His actions as PM give me no indication that he is a racist, very much the opposite.

I put this down as a stupid forgivable mistake. One I could have seen myself make. Maybe I had a terrible mother who didn't teach me right! The world has changed a lot from 2001 to now.

I'm way more concerned with some of his broken promises from 2015. (Election reform)

dignin

oftenreading said:

Meltdown99 said:

A 3rd incident has now been reported.  I lovee it when the turd who has no problem accusing others of being racist is, in fact, a racist...

Starting to make Harper look like the decent human and Trudeau is the creep most of us knew he was...

I wonder what is more racist - dressing up as Aladdin in 2001, or saying in 2019 that Canada should not accept any more refugees because the country is “full” and we don’t need any more of the disruption those people bring? 

Ding ding ding.