If you can't see how she didn't actually campaign in all states, only giving celebrity fundraisers, not doing enough rallies, not listening to the real voters in middle America, hiding out and not doing press conferences nor talking to actual voters??? If you continue to think she ran a great campaign??
One word: DENIAL.
She didn't have to lose, but she was lazy. Her campaign and her party screwed Bernie Sanders. Assumed she was going to win no problem. how ultimately embarrassing.
Only three states (PA, MI, WI) didn't go as planned. It should have been an easy win. We all underestimated the stupidity of the american voter.
Yet the stupidity of the American voter does not supercede how lazy, weak and unpopular the Dem candidate was. The Dem party is at fault for President Trump.
If you can't see how she didn't actually campaign in all states, only giving celebrity fundraisers, not doing enough rallies, not listening to the real voters in middle America, hiding out and not doing press conferences nor talking to actual voters??? If you continue to think she ran a great campaign??
One word: DENIAL.
She didn't have to lose, but she was lazy. Her campaign and her party screwed Bernie Sanders. Assumed she was going to win no problem. how ultimately embarrassing.
Only three states (PA, MI, WI) didn't go as planned. It should have been an easy win. We all underestimated the stupidity of the american voter.
Yet the stupidity of the American voter does not supercede how lazy, weak and unpopular the Dem candidate was. The Dem party is at fault for President Trump.
So unpopular that she won the popular vote. That argument doesn't fly.
Dems fucked up for sure but the wildcard was Trump and his fucking mouth. People saw him as an outsider and believed his line of bullshit.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
If you can't see how she didn't actually campaign in all states, only giving celebrity fundraisers, not doing enough rallies, not listening to the real voters in middle America, hiding out and not doing press conferences nor talking to actual voters??? If you continue to think she ran a great campaign??
One word: DENIAL.
She didn't have to lose, but she was lazy. Her campaign and her party screwed Bernie Sanders. Assumed she was going to win no problem. how ultimately embarrassing.
Only three states (PA, MI, WI) didn't go as planned. It should have been an easy win. We all underestimated the stupidity of the american voter.
Yet the stupidity of the American voter does not supercede how lazy, weak and unpopular the Dem candidate was. The Dem party is at fault for President Trump.
So unpopular that she won the popular vote. That argument doesn't fly.
Dems fucked up for sure but the wildcard was Trump and his fucking mouth. People saw him as an outsider and believed his line of bullshit.
So unpopular that thousands of voters left the presidential option blank and only voted down ballot.
If you can't see how she didn't actually campaign in all states, only giving celebrity fundraisers, not doing enough rallies, not listening to the real voters in middle America, hiding out and not doing press conferences nor talking to actual voters??? If you continue to think she ran a great campaign??
One word: DENIAL.
She didn't have to lose, but she was lazy. Her campaign and her party screwed Bernie Sanders. Assumed she was going to win no problem. how ultimately embarrassing.
Only three states (PA, MI, WI) didn't go as planned. It should have been an easy win. We all underestimated the stupidity of the american voter.
Yet the stupidity of the American voter does not supercede how lazy, weak and unpopular the Dem candidate was. The Dem party is at fault for President Trump.
So unpopular that she won the popular vote. That argument doesn't fly.
Dems fucked up for sure but the wildcard was Trump and his fucking mouth. People saw him as an outsider and believed his line of bullshit.
So unpopular that thousands of voters left the presidential option blank and only voted down ballot.
Well now they have a Trump presidency and everything that comes with it. And you're the first person I've ever heard call Clinton lazy.
I don't think Clinton was lazy. I do think the campaign suffered from being misinformed, arrogant and stubborn. Misinformed in that they believed the Midwest was already won. Arrogant in thinking they didn't need to campaign there. And stubborn in thinking that demographics and gender alone were going to win the race for her. I can understand why they thought these things. I can understand why they made the strategic decisions they did. But I also know that they were wrong. This was a winnable race that they just didn't win.
I don't think Clinton was lazy. I do think the campaign suffered from being misinformed, arrogant and stubborn. Misinformed in that they believed the Midwest was already won. Arrogant in thinking they didn't need to campaign there. And stubborn in thinking that demographics and gender alone were going to win the race for her. I can understand why they thought these things. I can understand why they made the strategic decisions they did. But I also know that they were wrong. This was a winnable race that they just didn't win.
Ha! LAZY is assuming you had this election in the bag. And then, not campaigning or talking to voters, only hosting celebrity fundraisers.
You're actually the one that assumed the election was in the bag. You posted about it innumerable times. And she campaigned relentlessly, considering she's a 70 year old person.
Knowing your apologist behavior for Clinton before the election? Ha! Your STILL apologizing. How's that working?
Really? Are you just the king of invention or king of projection too? What am I apologizing for? Where am I apologizing? We have a lot in common... we both backed people who lost. The difference is that most of us are taking it like adults and trying to figure out where to go next, how to close the gap. I don't know what in the fuck you've been doing since Bernie's loss, certainly not trying to figure out how to influence people to your point of view. You've actually spent your time doing the opposite.
Knowing your apologist behavior for Clinton before the election? Ha! Your STILL apologizing. How's that working?
Really? Are you just the king of invention or king of projection too? What am I apologizing for? Where am I apologizing? We have a lot in common... we both backed people who lost. The difference is that most of us are taking it like adults and trying to figure out where to go next, how to close the gap. I don't know what in the fuck you've been doing since Bernie's loss, certainly not trying to figure out how to influence people to your point of view. You've actually spent your time doing the opposite.
Yeah, ok.
Bernie just happens to be the only politician actually speaking out and attempting to get anything done right now.
^^^ Is she really in hiding? I believe she is out in the pastures w/ all her followers searching for answers why they lost. Either way no one cares where she is right now.
Knowing your apologist behavior for Clinton before the election? Ha! Your STILL apologizing. How's that working?
Really? Are you just the king of invention or king of projection too? What am I apologizing for? Where am I apologizing? We have a lot in common... we both backed people who lost. The difference is that most of us are taking it like adults and trying to figure out where to go next, how to close the gap. I don't know what in the fuck you've been doing since Bernie's loss, certainly not trying to figure out how to influence people to your point of view. You've actually spent your time doing the opposite.
Yeah, ok.
Bernie just happens to be the only politician actually speaking out and attempting to get anything done right now.
Hillary's in hiding.
She's not an elected official. She's a private citizen and just lost the election. Sanders is still a sitting senator. Plus, you guys have been bitchin' about the old guard and how it's time for them to go. I'm confused what you want. Do you want Hillary on the scene or not?
i've voted democrat every year since 1996 and was actually hesitant to vote for hrc. I did in fact vote for her but totally get why she lost. bernie or joe biden run and this is a laughable race. Hillary was unfortunately a terrible candidate that was very hard to like. I hope the democrats can recover for the mid term elections.
Knowing your apologist behavior for Clinton before the election? Ha! Your STILL apologizing. How's that working?
Really? Are you just the king of invention or king of projection too? What am I apologizing for? Where am I apologizing? We have a lot in common... we both backed people who lost. The difference is that most of us are taking it like adults and trying to figure out where to go next, how to close the gap. I don't know what in the fuck you've been doing since Bernie's loss, certainly not trying to figure out how to influence people to your point of view. You've actually spent your time doing the opposite.
Yeah, ok.
Bernie just happens to be the only politician actually speaking out and attempting to get anything done right now.
Hillary's in hiding.
Um, no, she's not in hiding. I've heard two full Clinton speeches in the past two weeks. Great speeches. Still as thoughtful as ever in her analysis of our current reality.
Claiming investigating other countries for our election issues is nothing with deflecting andnot taking responsibility. Let's go ahead and spend our media, time and money on this.
So the country should only focus on what you perceived as corrupt and just turn an eye away from this Russia issue ?
When are you Dems going to stop blaming others for losing?
You need to step back and look at the big picture. Forget about political parties. If the Russians played a role in tampering/swaying the voting process in the US it is a major concern. It's not to reverse any decisions or make excuses. It's our old enemy, turned ally, turning enemy again influencing our politics at the voter level. Do you not see the problem with that?
It's the media using distraction and blame. I'm all for investigation, eat your heart out. But placing focus continually on the Dems to renig their own problems w/ their poorly run campaign and look elsewhere for blame is pretty fucking pathetic. They continue to keep their heads in the sand.
You're missing the point. This is about Trump, not Hillary. It's not about the election. That outcome will never change. The question now is what does this US Russia relationship mean for NATO countries, former Soviet Block countries, etc. How does Russia's alleged and apparent influence affect geopolitical relationships for the next four years?
If the entire Russia thing has nothing to do with Hillary, then it wouldn't even be in this thread. Hillary's camp involved Russia in the whole pre-election bullshit. It has everything to do with her and her campaign. Democrats will stop at nothing to look elsewhere for their problems. Meanwhile Bernie Sanders is the only one doing anything at this point speaking out against trump on behalf of the people of this country.
I guess I'm not thinking about it in context to this thread. I really don't care about the thread, it's just where the conversation was headed. I'll say this unequivocally so we are on the same page: I do not believe the Russians had a MATERIAL influence on the outcome of the election. I believe they tried with the wikileaks or whatever, but not materially.
I also dont' necessarily believe that HRC's campaign was poorly run. I thought, from an execution perspective, it was well run. She had weaknesses that she couldn't overcome and Comey's last minute bomb did not help in the least.
Could Bernie have beaten Trump? Maybe...we'll never know. I think he would have lost FL and NC just like she did. He wasn't very good with the minority votes. He may have even lost NV too. I don't think there's anyway he wins Ohio. Could he have won PA and MI? Maybe. Those are heavy minority states too. He probably would have done a bit better with white voters, but would that have just been a swap out for fewer minorities? We'll never know.
We don't know how Bernie would have done in the general. Maybe nothing would have changed in the Electoral College. However, I think Sanders would have competed for every vote of the Obama coalition. Hillary didn't do that. And Bernie wouldn't have spent August in the Hamptons. He would have barnstormed the Midwest where his genuineness would have been an asset. It's no guarantee of victory but I believe he would have fared better than she did.
Introspection from Democrats and an honest assessment of what happened here would be good to see. It's true, there has not been much of that yet.
Of course the aging old guard doesn't want to step down. Why would they? People's natural instincts is to protect themselves. The question is who is the new guard? Obama was ahead of the curve and his generation. But where are the other leaders? And how do the Dems stop being a coastal party, which really played out in this election. What are the policies that brings the older, white, lower to middle class mid westerners back into the fold?
Good questions. I'm curious to know what Obama will turn his attention to once out of office.
I'm willing to take a wait-and-see approach on the party's next steps. I'm not naive enough to think they haven't held internal conversations that we're unaware of. Their public comments are rightfully directed toward stopping the blood from running out of our democracy the next four years. The leadership pretty much has their hands full -- how to respond to the appointments, anticipating the onslaught of upcoming legislation, trying to regroup for 2018 and further down the road.
I don't really know why we have to keep beating up Clinton in the middle of it all. We really don't have time for that. We've got major shit about to rain/reign down on us. I'm focusing on that.
^^^ Had the party beat up Clinton w/ public outcry on how to stop Trump, it may have turned things. But instead they sat back because they had it in the bag. Liberal pothead laziness.
Leaked DNC e-mails show that Wasserman Schultz wrote to NBC anchor Chuck Todd in May, with the subject line, “Chuck, this must stop,”
Just minutes earlier, Wasserman Schultz wrote to DNC Communications Director Luis Miranda, saying: “This is the LAST straw . . . This is outrageous. She needs to apologize.”
Yes, how Putinesque. You're grasping or maybe you don't understand how a dictator acts if you're trying to make a parallel here.
"I’ll just say it: NBC got a call from the [Clinton] campaign. Like I had done something that was journalistically inappropriate or something and needed to be pulled off the air,” she added.
Didn't the evil dictator Saddam have journalists pulled off the air?
"I’ll just say it: NBC got a call from the [Clinton] campaign. Like I had done something that was journalistically inappropriate or something and needed to be pulled off the air,” she added.
Didn't the evil dictator Saddam have journalists pulled off the air?
Yeah... physically and put in prison. You are the king of false equivalency.
^^^ Had the party beat up Clinton w/ public outcry on how to stop Trump, it may have turned things. But instead they sat back because they had it in the bag. Liberal pothead laziness.
This is what the right wing is saying over and over but it isn't true. Clinton never talked like she had it in the bag. The polling suggested she did. The polls were correct except for MI, WI and PA. She won the popular vote by almost 3 million votes.
You need to look at the evidence and stop vomiting that bullshit over and over.
PLUS: It is now very clear that the Comey letter had a major impact on the election. It is also starting to become apparent that the Russian influence had an effect. We saw it on here...post after post about leaked emails that had no substance at all.
Post edited by Gern Blansten on
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
...and they shut out others around the party that called them out too. Just shut people down that criticize, not one inch of listening to the warnings.
...and they shut out others around the party that called them out too. Just shut people down that criticize, not one inch of listening to the warnings.
You didn't warn anyone. You posted that it was all a foregone conclusion. Trump didn't want to win. It is rigged, etc.
...and they shut out others around the party that called them out too. Just shut people down that criticize, not one inch of listening to the warnings.
The party that instead of campaigning in Wisconsin asked, why trump in Wisconsin. Trivia: can you name the last presidential elect that did not campaign in Wisconsin?
^^^ Had the party beat up Clinton w/ public outcry on how to stop Trump, it may have turned things. But instead they sat back because they had it in the bag. Liberal pothead laziness.
These kinds of comments just really piss me off because I volunteered locally and do not know one single volunteer who sat back and thought Clinton had it in the bag. The people on the ground working knew very well that we had to work hard for every single vote. That was the message coming from local, state, and national party leaders directed to volunteers: every vote will matter. We were told that over and over.
^^^ Had the party beat up Clinton w/ public outcry on how to stop Trump, it may have turned things. But instead they sat back because they had it in the bag. Liberal pothead laziness.
This is what the right wing is saying over and over but it isn't true. Clinton never talked like she had it in the bag. The polling suggested she did. The polls were correct except for MI, WI and PA. She won the popular vote by almost 3 million votes. You need to look at the evidence and stop vomiting that bullshit over and over. PLUS: It is now very clear that the Comey letter had a major impact on the election. It is also starting to become apparent that the Russian influence had an effect. We saw it on here...post after post about leaked emails that had no substance at all.
Clinton never talked like it no, she acted liked it. Polls are best friends to liberals hence the perception that Hillary would win. You need to look at the evidence that Hillary lost even w/ 3mil more votes than the current President-elect Trump. Stop and think about that. Trump had it in the bag the whole time and Hillary knew it but would not dare tell the people on the ground working for her.
Comments
Dems fucked up for sure but the wildcard was Trump and his fucking mouth. People saw him as an outsider and believed his line of bullshit.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Bernie just happens to be the only politician actually speaking out and attempting to get anything done right now.
Hillary's in hiding.
Is she really in hiding?
I believe she is out in the pastures w/ all her followers searching for answers why they lost.
Either way no one cares where she is right now.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I'm willing to take a wait-and-see approach on the party's next steps. I'm not naive enough to think they haven't held internal conversations that we're unaware of. Their public comments are rightfully directed toward stopping the blood from running out of our democracy the next four years. The leadership pretty much has their hands full -- how to respond to the appointments, anticipating the onslaught of upcoming legislation, trying to regroup for 2018 and further down the road.
I don't really know why we have to keep beating up Clinton in the middle of it all. We really don't have time for that. We've got major shit about to rain/reign down on us. I'm focusing on that.
Had the party beat up Clinton w/ public outcry on how to stop Trump, it may have turned things.
But instead they sat back because they had it in the bag.
Liberal pothead laziness.
http://nypost.com/2016/12/09/mika-brzezinski-says-clinton-camp-tried-to-pull-her-off-the-air/
Just minutes earlier, Wasserman Schultz wrote to DNC Communications Director Luis Miranda, saying: “This is the LAST straw . . . This is outrageous. She needs to apologize.”
Yes, how Putinesque. You're grasping or maybe you don't understand how a dictator acts if you're trying to make a parallel here.
Didn't the evil dictator Saddam have journalists pulled off the air?
You need to look at the evidence and stop vomiting that bullshit over and over.
PLUS: It is now very clear that the Comey letter had a major impact on the election. It is also starting to become apparent that the Russian influence had an effect. We saw it on here...post after post about leaked emails that had no substance at all.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Trivia: can you name the last presidential elect that did not campaign in Wisconsin?
Your perception is just your perception.
Polls are best friends to liberals hence the perception that Hillary would win.
You need to look at the evidence that Hillary lost even w/ 3mil more votes than the current President-elect Trump. Stop and think about that.
Trump had it in the bag the whole time and Hillary knew it but would not dare tell the people on the ground working for her.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."