Claiming investigating other countries for our election issues is nothing with deflecting andnot taking responsibility. Let's go ahead and spend our media, time and money on this.
So the country should only focus on what you perceived as corrupt and just turn an eye away from this Russia issue ?
When are you Dems going to stop blaming others for losing?
You need to step back and look at the big picture. Forget about political parties. If the Russians played a role in tampering/swaying the voting process in the US it is a major concern. It's not to reverse any decisions or make excuses. It's our old enemy, turned ally, turning enemy again influencing our politics at the voter level. Do you not see the problem with that?
It's the media using distraction and blame. I'm all for investigation, eat your heart out. But placing focus continually on the Dems to renig their own problems w/ their poorly run campaign and look elsewhere for blame is pretty fucking pathetic. They continue to keep their heads in the sand.
Claiming investigating other countries for our election issues is nothing with deflecting andnot taking responsibility. Let's go ahead and spend our media, time and money on this.
So the country should only focus on what you perceived as corrupt and just turn an eye away from this Russia issue ?
When are you Dems going to stop blaming others for losing?
You need to step back and look at the big picture. Forget about political parties. If the Russians played a role in tampering/swaying the voting process in the US it is a major concern. It's not to reverse any decisions or make excuses. It's our old enemy, turned ally, turning enemy again influencing our politics at the voter level. Do you not see the problem with that?
It's the media using distraction and blame. I'm all for investigation, eat your heart out. But placing focus continually on the Dems to renig their own problems w/ their poorly run campaign and look elsewhere for blame is pretty fucking pathetic. They continue to keep their heads in the sand.
You're missing the point. This is about Trump, not Hillary. It's not about the election. That outcome will never change. The question now is what does this US Russia relationship mean for NATO countries, former Soviet Block countries, etc. How does Russia's alleged and apparent influence affect geopolitical relationships for the next four years?
Claiming investigating other countries for our election issues is nothing with deflecting andnot taking responsibility. Let's go ahead and spend our media, time and money on this.
So the country should only focus on what you perceived as corrupt and just turn an eye away from this Russia issue ?
When are you Dems going to stop blaming others for losing?
You need to step back and look at the big picture. Forget about political parties. If the Russians played a role in tampering/swaying the voting process in the US it is a major concern. It's not to reverse any decisions or make excuses. It's our old enemy, turned ally, turning enemy again influencing our politics at the voter level. Do you not see the problem with that?
It's the media using distraction and blame. I'm all for investigation, eat your heart out. But placing focus continually on the Dems to renig their own problems w/ their poorly run campaign and look elsewhere for blame is pretty fucking pathetic. They continue to keep their heads in the sand.
You're missing the point. This is about Trump, not Hillary. It's not about the election. That outcome will never change. The question now is what does this US Russia relationship mean for NATO countries, former Soviet Block countries, etc. How does Russia's alleged and apparent influence affect geopolitical relationships for the next four years?
If the entire Russia thing has nothing to do with Hillary, then it wouldn't even be in this thread. Hillary's camp involved Russia in the whole pre-election bullshit. It has everything to do with her and her campaign. Democrats will stop at nothing to look elsewhere for their problems. Meanwhile Bernie Sanders is the only one doing anything at this point speaking out against trump on behalf of the people of this country.
Claiming investigating other countries for our election issues is nothing with deflecting andnot taking responsibility. Let's go ahead and spend our media, time and money on this.
So the country should only focus on what you perceived as corrupt and just turn an eye away from this Russia issue ?
When are you Dems going to stop blaming others for losing?
You need to step back and look at the big picture. Forget about political parties. If the Russians played a role in tampering/swaying the voting process in the US it is a major concern. It's not to reverse any decisions or make excuses. It's our old enemy, turned ally, turning enemy again influencing our politics at the voter level. Do you not see the problem with that?
It's the media using distraction and blame. I'm all for investigation, eat your heart out. But placing focus continually on the Dems to renig their own problems w/ their poorly run campaign and look elsewhere for blame is pretty fucking pathetic. They continue to keep their heads in the sand.
You're missing the point. This is about Trump, not Hillary. It's not about the election. That outcome will never change. The question now is what does this US Russia relationship mean for NATO countries, former Soviet Block countries, etc. How does Russia's alleged and apparent influence affect geopolitical relationships for the next four years?
If the entire Russia thing has nothing to do with Hillary, then it wouldn't even be in this thread. Hillary's camp involved Russia in the whole pre-election bullshit. It has everything to do with her and her campaign. Democrats will stop at nothing to look elsewhere for their problems. Meanwhile Bernie Sanders is the only one doing anything at this point speaking out against trump on behalf of the people of this country.
I guess I'm not thinking about it in context to this thread. I really don't care about the thread, it's just where the conversation was headed. I'll say this unequivocally so we are on the same page: I do not believe the Russians had a MATERIAL influence on the outcome of the election. I believe they tried with the wikileaks or whatever, but not materially.
I also dont' necessarily believe that HRC's campaign was poorly run. I thought, from an execution perspective, it was well run. She had weaknesses that she couldn't overcome and Comey's last minute bomb did not help in the least.
Could Bernie have beaten Trump? Maybe...we'll never know. I think he would have lost FL and NC just like she did. He wasn't very good with the minority votes. He may have even lost NV too. I don't think there's anyway he wins Ohio. Could he have won PA and MI? Maybe. Those are heavy minority states too. He probably would have done a bit better with white voters, but would that have just been a swap out for fewer minorities? We'll never know.
Of course you think it was well run, you refused to look at her or her campaign realistically without criticism that led a few of us to believe you were just a Hillbot. And in continuing to think it was well run? Pretty hilarious at this point.
Claiming investigating other countries for our election issues is nothing with deflecting andnot taking responsibility. Let's go ahead and spend our media, time and money on this.
So the country should only focus on what you perceived as corrupt and just turn an eye away from this Russia issue ?
When are you Dems going to stop blaming others for losing?
You need to step back and look at the big picture. Forget about political parties. If the Russians played a role in tampering/swaying the voting process in the US it is a major concern. It's not to reverse any decisions or make excuses. It's our old enemy, turned ally, turning enemy again influencing our politics at the voter level. Do you not see the problem with that?
It's the media using distraction and blame. I'm all for investigation, eat your heart out. But placing focus continually on the Dems to renig their own problems w/ their poorly run campaign and look elsewhere for blame is pretty fucking pathetic. They continue to keep their heads in the sand.
You're missing the point. This is about Trump, not Hillary. It's not about the election. That outcome will never change. The question now is what does this US Russia relationship mean for NATO countries, former Soviet Block countries, etc. How does Russia's alleged and apparent influence affect geopolitical relationships for the next four years?
If the entire Russia thing has nothing to do with Hillary, then it wouldn't even be in this thread. Hillary's camp involved Russia in the whole pre-election bullshit. It has everything to do with her and her campaign. Democrats will stop at nothing to look elsewhere for their problems. Meanwhile Bernie Sanders is the only one doing anything at this point speaking out against trump on behalf of the people of this country.
I guess I'm not thinking about it in context to this thread. I really don't care about the thread, it's just where the conversation was headed. I'll say this unequivocally so we are on the same page: I do not believe the Russians had a MATERIAL influence on the outcome of the election. I believe they tried with the wikileaks or whatever, but not materially.
I also dont' necessarily believe that HRC's campaign was poorly run. I thought, from an execution perspective, it was well run. She had weaknesses that she couldn't overcome and Comey's last minute bomb did not help in the least.
Could Bernie have beaten Trump? Maybe...we'll never know. I think he would have lost FL and NC just like she did. He wasn't very good with the minority votes. He may have even lost NV too. I don't think there's anyway he wins Ohio. Could he have won PA and MI? Maybe. Those are heavy minority states too. He probably would have done a bit better with white voters, but would that have just been a swap out for fewer minorities? We'll never know.
Of course you think it was well run, you refused to look at her or her campaign realistically without criticism that led a few of us to believe you were just a Hillbot.
Have a nice day.
You're missing the point again, about the tactics of the campaign and the candidate themselves, but I expect nothing less. It's just interesting that your candidate couldn't beat Hillary yet you think he is a deity. But I know you're going to say it was rigged. Yet didn't Trump overcome his party establishment? He had an entire wing of #NeverTrump against him yet succeeded. Why couldn't your candidate do the same? Trump proved that populism could overcome establishment. Your candidate failed in that regard.
Bernie's biggest national election problem is that NO ONE WINS ON A PLATFORM OF RAISING TAXES. It just...doesn't...happen. How would a midwestern auto worker vote when faced with....This guy promises to raise my taxes to give kids free education. This guy is promising to lower my taxes. Pretty easy.
If you can't see how she didn't actually campaign in all states, only giving celebrity fundraisers, not doing enough rallies, not listening to the real voters in middle America, hiding out and not doing press conferences nor talking to actual voters??? If you continue to think she ran a great campaign??
One word: DENIAL.
She didn't have to lose, but she was lazy. Her campaign and her party screwed Bernie Sanders. Assumed she was going to win no problem. how ultimately embarrassing.
Claiming investigating other countries for our election issues is nothing with deflecting andnot taking responsibility. Let's go ahead and spend our media, time and money on this.
Take a step back and imagine Bernie was the nominee and not Hillary. Would you be saying the same thing? Because I would. This needs to cut deeper than partisan divides and candidate preferences.
Any party intentionally squashing an opponent running on the same party ticket deserves scrutiny. Any party cheating to win the primary deserves the same and more including shame and calls to step down. And any candidate who refuses to accept and admit defeat deserves to be called on it. Obama is embarrassing himself and legacy when insisting on blaming Russia. Investigate all you want, The fools are the American people believing it all. We have MUCH bigger problems but let's focus on that!
Bernie would not, with his level of decency and integrity do half of what the Dem party has pulled and look the other way. You are comparing apples to oranges right there.
No, I'm comparing candidate to candidate and credibility to credibility. I would be saying the exact same things regardless of who the candidate was who may or may not have been disadvantaged by the Russians.
If you can't see how she didn't actually campaign in all states, only giving celebrity fundraisers, not doing enough rallies, not listening to the real voters in middle America, hiding out and not doing press conferences nor talking to actual voters??? If you continue to think she ran a great campaign??
One word: DENIAL.
You think she should have campaigned in ALL states? CA, NY, OR, WA, etc.? You would be a brilliant campaign strategist.
Her message clearly didn't resonate well enough in the Big 10 states. Obviously. But that's a policy/messaging issue, not about where they spent their time, money and resources. They put the time into the states that were important. She lost them. Like I said, I'm differentiating between the campaign strategy and the message.
If you can't see how she didn't actually campaign in all states, only giving celebrity fundraisers, not doing enough rallies, not listening to the real voters in middle America, hiding out and not doing press conferences nor talking to actual voters??? If you continue to think she ran a great campaign??
One word: DENIAL.
You think she should have campaigned in ALL states? CA, NY, OR, WA, etc.? You would be a brilliant campaign strategist.
Her message clearly didn't resonate well enough in the Big 10 states. Obviously. But that's a policy/messaging issue, not about where they spent their time, money and resources. They put the time into the states that were important. She lost them. Like I said, I'm differentiating between the campaign strategy and the message.
Pardon if this is something you've already pointed out. To your point I found it interesting that while she campaigned like crazy in PA, made a late push in MI and largely ignored WI, she lost them all by similar margins. That's clearly message related, not where she spent her time. I do think she should have made sure the blue wall was indeed a wall before she went for the blowout. But, it is possible the Midwest was already lost and there was nothing she could do.
If you can't see how she didn't actually campaign in all states, only giving celebrity fundraisers, not doing enough rallies, not listening to the real voters in middle America, hiding out and not doing press conferences nor talking to actual voters??? If you continue to think she ran a great campaign??
One word: DENIAL.
You think she should have campaigned in ALL states? CA, NY, OR, WA, etc.? You would be a brilliant campaign strategist.
Her message clearly didn't resonate well enough in the Big 10 states. Obviously. But that's a policy/messaging issue, not about where they spent their time, money and resources. They put the time into the states that were important. She lost them. Like I said, I'm differentiating between the campaign strategy and the message.
Pardon if this is something you've already pointed out. To your point I found it interesting that while she campaigned like crazy in PA, made a late push in MI and largely ignored WI, she lost them all by similar margins. That's clearly message related, not where she spent her time. I do think she should have made sure the blue wall was indeed a wall before she went for the blowout. But, it is possible the Midwest was already lost and there was nothing she could do.
I think the blue wall was already gone, but your point is accurate. Ironically the Democratic party has really changed over the past 20 years. It's become more urban, educated and coastal. Educated liberals leave the midwest. I grew up in Cleveland but would never go back because the jobs are not there (excluding Chicago of course). I'm not sure how the educated Democratic party meshes back with the blue collar part of the base.
Donald Trump, without any evidence, sides with Putin over the US Intelligence Community. That's a stunning development. He forgets which side he is on... oh wait, he doesn't. He's on HIS side.
Donald Trump, without any evidence, sides with Putin over the US Intelligence Community. That's a stunning development. He forgets which side he is on... oh wait, he doesn't. He's on HIS side.
Donald Trump, without any evidence, sides with Putin over the US Intelligence Community. That's a stunning development. He forgets which side he is on... oh wait, he doesn't. He's on HIS side.
It represents a shocking turnaround in American politics. I'm all for giving Trump a chance and judging him by his actions. These are his actions.
And for me, it's not even about Russia. His transition team is publicly bashing the professionals in the CIA and siding with the foreign power. And they are doing it by bringing up the Iraq war, in which the professional intelligence was politicized by the regime no longer there. The whole thing is super fucked up.
^^^ What is messed up is that everything that President-elect Trump is doing while in transition is being tarred and feathered. He hasn't even done anything yet under the official POTUS rank yet common libs/radlibs continue to hate him.
^^^ What is messed up is that everything that President-elect Trump is doing while in transition is being tarred and feathered. He hasn't even done anything yet under the official POTUS rank yet common libs/radlibs continue to hate him.
Well don't you think it's ironic that he ran under a populous platform but is nominating insiders? I could care less, but I would be aggravated if I voted for him under the "drain the swamp" mantra.
Plus, what has he done to make "common libs/radlibs" stop hating him? Democrats and liberals hated him before the election, why would anyone stop now?
^^^ What is messed up is that everything that President-elect Trump is doing while in transition is being tarred and feathered. He hasn't even done anything yet under the official POTUS rank yet common libs/radlibs continue to hate him.
What an interesting choice of words
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
^^^ What is messed up is that everything that President-elect Trump is doing while in transition is being tarred and feathered. He hasn't even done anything yet under the official POTUS rank yet common libs/radlibs continue to hate him.
Still waiting for tax docs.....
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,389
^^^ What is messed up is that everything that President-elect Trump is doing while in transition is being tarred and feathered. He hasn't even done anything yet under the official POTUS rank yet common libs/radlibs continue to hate him.
....and true conservatives, of which trump is not. gee, wonder why?
Repeating over and over again that Hillary has more votes is not working. Just accept that President-elect Trump won w/ less votes. This thread
"is not working" at what?
Is your reading comprehension really so poor that you don't understand what is written here or are you just trolling? I honestly don't know on this one.
It has been accepted. If you don't like this thread, you are free to fuck off, just like you are free to get the fuck out of all the other threads you only enter to talk shit in.
If you can't see how she didn't actually campaign in all states, only giving celebrity fundraisers, not doing enough rallies, not listening to the real voters in middle America, hiding out and not doing press conferences nor talking to actual voters??? If you continue to think she ran a great campaign??
One word: DENIAL.
She didn't have to lose, but she was lazy. Her campaign and her party screwed Bernie Sanders. Assumed she was going to win no problem. how ultimately embarrassing.
Only three states (PA, MI, WI) didn't go as planned. It should have been an easy win. We all underestimated the stupidity of the american voter.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Comments
Just accept that President-elect Trump won w/ less votes.
This thread
I also dont' necessarily believe that HRC's campaign was poorly run. I thought, from an execution perspective, it was well run. She had weaknesses that she couldn't overcome and Comey's last minute bomb did not help in the least.
Could Bernie have beaten Trump? Maybe...we'll never know. I think he would have lost FL and NC just like she did. He wasn't very good with the minority votes. He may have even lost NV too. I don't think there's anyway he wins Ohio. Could he have won PA and MI? Maybe. Those are heavy minority states too. He probably would have done a bit better with white voters, but would that have just been a swap out for fewer minorities? We'll never know.
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
Bernie's biggest national election problem is that NO ONE WINS ON A PLATFORM OF RAISING TAXES. It just...doesn't...happen. How would a midwestern auto worker vote when faced with....This guy promises to raise my taxes to give kids free education. This guy is promising to lower my taxes. Pretty easy.
One word: DENIAL.
She didn't have to lose, but she was lazy. Her campaign and her party screwed Bernie Sanders. Assumed she was going to win no problem. how ultimately embarrassing.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Her message clearly didn't resonate well enough in the Big 10 states. Obviously. But that's a policy/messaging issue, not about where they spent their time, money and resources. They put the time into the states that were important. She lost them. Like I said, I'm differentiating between the campaign strategy and the message.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
What is messed up is that everything that President-elect Trump is doing while in transition is being tarred and feathered.
He hasn't even done anything yet under the official POTUS rank yet common libs/radlibs continue to hate him.
Plus, what has he done to make "common libs/radlibs" stop hating him? Democrats and liberals hated him before the election, why would anyone stop now?
2,841,862
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Is your reading comprehension really so poor that you don't understand what is written here or are you just trolling?
I honestly don't know on this one.
It has been accepted.
If you don't like this thread, you are free to fuck off, just like you are free to get the fuck out of all the other threads you only enter to talk shit in.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana