FLIPPERS ON EBAY

dankind

OceansJenny said:

For those of us who don't want to stand in line for hours, what alternative do we have? I'll pay an up charge to not have to deal with the chaos.

Wait for them to be available in the shop/goods section of PearlJam.com. And then be fast!

given2fly23

dankind said:

OceansJenny said:

For those of us who don't want to stand in line for hours, what alternative do we have? I'll pay an up charge to not have to deal with the chaos.

Wait for them to be available in the shop/goods section of PearlJam.com. And then be fast!

Or realize that it's just stuff and doesnt (shouldn't) make the show you went to any less amazing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not the Dalai Lama or anything. I've been a victim of that desire too, but once I realized that I'm actually relieved when a poster is ugly b/c I dont have to spend the energy or money trying to get it, I had to take a step back and question the whole thing.

RS151862

given2fly23 said:

start a subscription service. Commit to releasing a show a month or quarter in lossless digital and/or CD and you can have my credit card. Release vinyl if/when you want as an extra.

This would be awesome.

PJ_Soul

Longest Road said:

I totally agree, the music has been overshadowed by an fing poster or a button. Enough, I will come for the music, not the merch line!

What do you mean overshadowed? How does other people standing in merch lines overshadow the music for you?
For some people, it seems like the merch ADDS to their enjoyment of the music IMO. I'm not one of those people, but I don't see why those who are can't enjoy merch and the music at the same time. There is room for both I'm sure.

2-feign-reluctance

It may be a preoccupation on the forums this week, but not for all fans. I have met huge Pearl Jam fans who don't give a shit about merch, vinyl, or these forums. So, maybe the discussion overshadowed regular chatter on this forum, it certainly doesn't overshadow the overall music and all fan's enjoyment of it (merch or not).

PJ_Soul

2-feign-reluctance said:

It may be a preoccupation on the forums this week, but not for all fans. I have met huge Pearl Jam fans who don't give a shit about merch, vinyl, or these forums. So, maybe the discussion overshadowed regular chatter on this forum, it certainly doesn't overshadow the overall music and all fan's enjoyment of it (merch or not).

Agreed.
I do think it's fun to talk about the merch, and I enjoy seeing people go nuts over it, lol. But it's nothing compared to the music (and the PJ vinyl IS the music, so in that way, since vinyl is mostly the only merch I buy, it truly compliments and highlights the music and my enjoyment of it rather than overshadow it). As for dog collars and mugs?.... It's fun for people (even just the voyeurs, haha), and fun is never bad.

Longest Road

PJ_Soul said:

Longest Road said:

I totally agree, the music has been overshadowed by an fing poster or a button. Enough, I will come for the music, not the merch line!

What do you mean overshadowed? How does other people standing in merch lines overshadow the music for you?
For some people, it seems like the merch ADDS to their enjoyment of the music IMO. I'm not one of those people, but I don't see why those who are can't enjoy merch and the music at the same time. There is room for both I'm sure.

Sure, some people want a souvenir from an epic show, myself included. That being said, do you want to pay $450.00 for a poster???? I think not. So yes, in a way it does in some cases overshadow the purity of the music. I have seen hundreds of people at merch booths pushing and shoving for a pin, while the band is BUSTING THEIR ASS for us. I own a record store, and have always found the purity of music critical in my life. No poster has ever saved my life or helped me deal with hard times, but the music sure has cured me. That being said, my beef is with the filthy cockroach flippers who hire kids to get in line at Volcom to scoop up what should truly go to die hard fans. So, if you wanna pay $500.00 for a poster, go for it, but I will ALWAYS have my memories, which are way more valuable than some piece of poster board.

PJ_Soul

Longest Road said:

PJ_Soul said:

Longest Road said:

I totally agree, the music has been overshadowed by an fing poster or a button. Enough, I will come for the music, not the merch line!

What do you mean overshadowed? How does other people standing in merch lines overshadow the music for you?
For some people, it seems like the merch ADDS to their enjoyment of the music IMO. I'm not one of those people, but I don't see why those who are can't enjoy merch and the music at the same time. There is room for both I'm sure.

Sure, some people want a souvenir from an epic show, myself included. That being said, do you want to pay $450.00 for a poster???? I think not. So yes, in a way it does in some cases overshadow the purity of the music. I have seen hundreds of people at merch booths pushing and shoving for a pin, while the band is BUSTING THEIR ASS for us. I own a record store, and have always found the purity of music critical in my life. No poster has ever saved my life or helped me deal with hard times, but the music sure has cured me. That being said, my beef is with the filthy cockroach flippers who hire kids to get in line at Volcom to scoop up what should truly go to die hard fans. So, if you wanna pay $500.00 for a poster, go for it, but I will ALWAYS have my memories, which are way more valuable than some piece of poster board.

I just don't see how it overshadows anything. Why can't both happen at the same time without anything being overshadowed?? Why would purchasing a poster on ebay interfere with the music at all? I just don't agree that that is the case, at least not necessarily. And as someone who has spent $400 on a record and traded a sealed Sevens for a poster, I really can't be shocked about the kind of money people will spend on stuff they really want, lol (well, to a point... I am still reeling from how much the latest Reenk Roink went for, hahaha). Same with the folks in the merch lines. Aside from the flippers who aren't even fans, why can't fans spend 5 hours in a merch line up and get worked up about it (I wouldn't, but that's just me), and then also go into the venue and feel that with complete intensity as well? I know people who are massive fans, who feel the music as strongly as any person can, and also have unbelievable merch collections. I just think you're wrong in assuming there isn't room for both.

As for the comment about the band BUSTING THEIR ASS for us.... It's not like they're doing it for free. So how come the band's huge earnings from both ticket sales and merch sales aren't overshadowing the music for them??? Some people think it is, actually, much more so than merch could be overshadowing the music for the fans in your view. Some people have even walked away because they thought the band's sold out.

OceansJenny

dankind said:

OceansJenny said:

For those of us who don't want to stand in line for hours, what alternative do we have? I'll pay an up charge to not have to deal with the chaos.

Wait for them to be available in the shop/goods section of PearlJam.com. And then be fast!

Yeah I hear that, but I don't have the patience to sit around on the pearl jam site the day the posters are being released. I will only do that for show tickets. I'd rather just pay the extra $90 and be done with it. If someone is willing to stand in those lines for hours, they can have my $90.

I've already complained about supply/demand but the merch ppl should take pre-orders or have unlimited supply if they want "No Flippers!". That sticker on the back is amusing.

Anyone who pays $450 for a poster has some issues. The current NYC ones on ebay are around $120. That's not unreasonable if you consider the opportunity cost of your time / taking paid time off to go stand in a line.

PJ_Soul

OceansJenny said:

dankind said:

OceansJenny said:

For those of us who don't want to stand in line for hours, what alternative do we have? I'll pay an up charge to not have to deal with the chaos.

Wait for them to be available in the shop/goods section of PearlJam.com. And then be fast!

Yeah I hear that, but I don't have the patience to sit around on the pearl jam site the day the posters are being released. I will only do that for show tickets. I'd rather just pay the extra $90 and be done with it. If someone is willing to stand in those lines for hours, they can have my $90.

I've already complained about supply/demand but the merch ppl should take pre-orders or have unlimited supply if they want "No Flippers!". That sticker on the back is amusing.

Anyone who pays $450 for a poster has some issues. The current NYC ones on ebay are around $120. That's not unreasonable if you consider the opportunity cost of your time / taking paid time off to go stand in a line.

Totally agree. I wish 10C would do pre-orders for all members (not just for people with 10C tix, but with a quality limit on everything), and then just let people pick them up at the venue AFTER the show, using a voucher or whatever. It would be so easy, no massive lines or dealing with cash, no one would have to deal with a poster (or whatever) during the show.... it's really a no-brainer IMO. Why they don't want to do this is a real mystery to me.

Longest Road

They did poster wristbands at MSG, and it went great. That being said, my problem is with the flippers, not the fans. I just don't see how you can justify flippers on eBay?? But each to their own. I will pay $30! How you buy, and how much you pay is your business, but supporting flippers only ruins it for others that can't afford $$$$$$$$ for a $30 poster.

PJ_Soul

Longest Road said:

They did poster wristbands at MSG, and it went great. That being said, my problem is with the flippers, not the fans. I just don't see how you can justify flippers on eBay?? But each to their own. I will pay $30! How you buy, and how much you pay is your business, but supporting flippers only ruins it for others that can't afford $$$$$$$$ for a $30 poster.

I don't justify flippers (I haven't been talking about flippers), but I do think that the flippers are not the ones to blame for prices. The BUYERS are solely responsible for the flipper prices. 100% (myself included, as someone who has spent a ton of money on all the PJ studio albums). No, I really can't blame anyone for trying to make a buck when fans are willing to throw money at them almost indiscriminately.

PSUS2H

I generally dont care about these posts, it is beating a dead horse, however, what makes me laugh is when someone is reselling a limited item and tries to charge more than what ebay will let them for shipping. There is a LP up right now for $150, they guy has $4.00 shipping indicated, but in the listing says shipping is actually $5.99. Dude, done be a cheap *** and take the $4.00 and use your profits to cover the extra $2. Ha ha, I'm surprised he isnt adding the $0.57 cents per mile for driving to the post office.

Longest Road

PSUS2H said:

I generally dont care about these posts, it is beating a dead horse, however, what makes me laugh is when someone is reselling a limited item and tries to charge more than what ebay will let them for shipping. There is a LP up right now for $150, they guy has $4.00 shipping indicated, but in the listing says shipping is actually $5.99. Dude, done be a cheap *** and take the $4.00 and use your profits to cover the extra $2. Ha ha, I'm surprised he isnt adding the $0.57 cents per mile for driving to the post office.

LOL, I'm a bit confused by PJ_Soul's mindset, but that's why we live in America, where we can peacefully discuss useless crap. LOL

ldent42

Longest Road said:

PSUS2H said:

I generally dont care about these posts, it is beating a dead horse, however, what makes me laugh is when someone is reselling a limited item and tries to charge more than what ebay will let them for shipping. There is a LP up right now for $150, they guy has $4.00 shipping indicated, but in the listing says shipping is actually $5.99. Dude, done be a cheap *** and take the $4.00 and use your profits to cover the extra $2. Ha ha, I'm surprised he isnt adding the $0.57 cents per mile for driving to the post office.

LOL, I'm a bit confused by PJ_Soul's mindset, but that's why we live in America, where we can peacefully discuss useless crap. LOL

It's just econ 101. Demand sets the pricing. If no one buys over face value, the secondary market will die out. That's how you blame the buyers.
If a poster costs $35 and sells for $100, it's because someone was willing to pay $100 for it. Tons of people are flooding the pages with "if you pick me up a poster I'll buy yours and pay for shipping!" That's not encouraging flippers, nor is it buying off flippers, but it affects the market price, effectively setting the minimum market value at $70.
If no one paid more than $35 for the posters, they wouldn't be selling for more than $35.

PJ_Soul

ldent42 said:

Longest Road said:

PSUS2H said:

I generally dont care about these posts, it is beating a dead horse, however, what makes me laugh is when someone is reselling a limited item and tries to charge more than what ebay will let them for shipping. There is a LP up right now for $150, they guy has $4.00 shipping indicated, but in the listing says shipping is actually $5.99. Dude, done be a cheap *** and take the $4.00 and use your profits to cover the extra $2. Ha ha, I'm surprised he isnt adding the $0.57 cents per mile for driving to the post office.

LOL, I'm a bit confused by PJ_Soul's mindset, but that's why we live in America, where we can peacefully discuss useless crap. LOL

It's just econ 101. Demand sets the pricing. If no one buys over face value, the secondary market will die out. That's how you blame the buyers.
If a poster costs $35 and sells for $100, it's because someone was willing to pay $100 for it. Tons of people are flooding the pages with "if you pick me up a poster I'll buy yours and pay for shipping!" That's not encouraging flippers, nor is it buying off flippers, but it affects the market price, effectively setting the minimum market value at $70.
If no one paid more than $35 for the posters, they wouldn't be selling for more than $35.

Exactly.

OceansJenny

Longest Road said:

PSUS2H said:

I generally dont care about these posts, it is beating a dead horse, however, what makes me laugh is when someone is reselling a limited item and tries to charge more than what ebay will let them for shipping. There is a LP up right now for $150, they guy has $4.00 shipping indicated, but in the listing says shipping is actually $5.99. Dude, done be a cheap *** and take the $4.00 and use your profits to cover the extra $2. Ha ha, I'm surprised he isnt adding the $0.57 cents per mile for driving to the post office.

LOL, I'm a bit confused by PJ_Soul's mindset, but that's why we live in America, where we can peacefully discuss useless crap. LOL

It's capitalism! Where there is a market for a good or service, providers will surface. I always wondered who was paying for the overpriced tickets/posters/whatever but after living in NY where people pay $1k for a LV tote bag, $100 for a poster seems incredibly reasonable.

jamburger

PSUS2H said:

I generally dont care about these posts, it is beating a dead horse, however, what makes me laugh is when someone is reselling a limited item and tries to charge more than what ebay will let them for shipping. There is a LP up right now for $150, they guy has $4.00 shipping indicated, but in the listing says shipping is actually $5.99. Dude, done be a cheap *** and take the $4.00 and use your profits to cover the extra $2. Ha ha, I'm surprised he isnt adding the $0.57 cents per mile for driving to the post office.

Kinda like how a Lost Dogs seller, who is neither a friend or family member, wants an extra 3% to conduct a secure PayPal transaction.

Zod

OceansJenny said:

It's capitalism! Where there is a market for a good or service, providers will surface. I always wondered who was paying for the overpriced tickets/posters/whatever but after living in NY where people pay $1k for a LV tote bag, $100 for a poster seems incredibly reasonable.

That's generally it. The value/price of something in a capitalist society is based on supply and demand. In this case the supply is low for these items and the demand is high. More people want them than are being made. This people have to try and buy other peoples posters to get one. The flippers take advantage of this by acquiring limited items and selling them.

It could easily be solved by making more items. I posted this in a thread and someone countered me by saying the 10c gets stuck with alot of useless merch (hence mystery sales). This is true, but there are certain items you know will sell out. Posters for any show when Pearl Jam plays the NorthEast or Seattle (Northwest isn't so bad outside of the seattle shows). Stickers, Tshirts etc.. too.

It really is to bad the 10c doesn't simply allow you to preorder posters online. They did this for the 09 tours (I remember being able to do it for the calgary show I went to). it was awesome. I didn't have to try and protect a poster at a GA show, I was guaranteed one, and It shows up at my house in mint condition. From a planning standpoint 10c would know precisely how many to print for users of the website. They could do extra runoff for the venue, but at least their would be a surefire way to get one. I wonder why the 10c abandoned it. It worked out awesome in '09.

Longest Road

I understand capitalism, I have a doctorate in philosophy, so that being said, there is a difference between "capitalism" and "greed". Why don't we go ahead and raise the price of milk by 500%, because people want milk, so why not......I'm sure the cow farmers will be happy...this is silly, people defending flippers