The right to bear arms

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Comments

  • mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mace1229 said:
    I always see these comments after a shooting. But the data doesn't back it up Mass shootings are not a "white" problem, but it is typically portrayed as one.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/

    Using the FBI definition of a mass shooting of 3 fatalities or more, only 58% are from white shooters.

    The number doesn't change by a lot using a different definition. 

    parse out the gang affiliated shooting from that. what do those numbers look like then?
    Moving the goal posts to fit a narrative then is what I'd call that.



    to start, mace inferred that Gern was saying all mass shootings are white guys. he didnt say that.

    2. breaking down the types of mass shootings are moving the goal posts? Given most of the white guy mass shootings used legal weapons or by those with access to same and most gang mass shootings use illegal guns , I think that becomes an important distinction between the two.

    so please explain how you see it as moving the goal posts.
    Yes, its been said before that mass shootings is a white person's problem.
    I interpreted Gern's comment of "Another white guy who had been "wronged" who takes it out on society. Pathetic." as implying the same thing. If not, then I apologize to Gern for misunderstanding his comment. 

    And yes, excluding an entire population so that it fits a narrative is exactly that, moving the goal posts. You either agree or not that it's mostly a white problem. If you look at the data, you'd say it's not. If you listen to comments of "another white guy..." and ignore the data, or cherry pick it, then you'd probably say it is. 
    Why exclude anyone? Why not exclude angry white guys then, and claim they are zero percent of the problem?

    a variety of problems to address.

    First we'll go with the illegal gun flow that begin as legal purchases. big problem, no? Seems there are simple things to address this, BUT NRA beholden politicians that pander to a subset of Americans looking at only half of the amendment that grants that right.

    Second lets address the disaffected white guy with access to legal guns. This LV shooting in particular,  a PROFESSOR got butthurt he didnt get a job there. Now the PD searched his apt. in Henderson. Feels like a sense of entitlement here. So it begs a couple questions, why in the fuck do you move across the country without employment in your chosen field? He left a university in NC. IDK enough of this part to i.e. why he left NC, under what circumstances,  when, how long in LV, etc to really comment but on the surface wtf. Cops arent saying type of weapon, but I wonder when purchased etc.


    doing nothing isn't tenable imo.
    UNLESS you specifically and politicians and others of like mind EXPLICITLY STATE the needless death is acceptable to maintain the Government granted Right.
    None of that seems to have anything to do with my comment though.
    I was responding specifically to calling out whites. Why bring race into it if that wasn't the point? So, sounds like the comment was implying white people are at fault more often.

    I provided data to support the claim that race is not a factor in mass shootings, it's an all races problem. You said it is, as long as we ignore the gang data. You can't just ignore entire populations to fit your narrative. None of what you just posted has anything to do with that.

    The link you provided confirms white people are at fault more often than not.
    Whites make up about 75% of the country, but less than 75% of mass shootings. 
    You complained that the comment was implying that white people are at fault more often. 

    They are. 
    Not any more than the percentage they make up the population. If you're going to blame a race for something, I would assume you factor in population. Of course LA has more homicides than Bakersfield. But compare the population of the 2 and Bakersfield is worse.
    With that logic, for you to admit there is say an Asian crime problem, Asian crime would have to rise to 51% of the overall crime? That makes no sense.
    Blaming white people for mass shootings doesn't make sense either when they make up more than 70% of the population, but less than 60% of the shootings. So why bring race into it?
    You’re looking at the broader label of mass shootings and concluding all the motives are the same. Gang violence is not in the same boat as violence perpetuated by someone who decides they’re going to kill random people in public in response to a trigger event. The latter category is disproportionately done by whites. 
    Just went through the top of this list:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

    I skipped the ones that were targeted, they were not random like you said. I didn't have time to go through the whole list, but out of the first 16 random shooters on this list, 10 of them were not white (4 of them were one single incident "working" together).

    Some people focus on race when its a white guy, and ignore it when its not. I'm not convinced the angry random shooter is mostly white.

    Dis you see how big the list is? There’s 27 entries just for this year. 
    “Didn’t have time.”
    I haven't seen you go through it
    Been there, done that. Do your own research.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    It's a factual statement. There's nothing wrong with it. 

    You can infer all you want, that's how infer and imply work. 
    I think I understand what you're saying, and I agree that at face value there is nothing wrong with calling a mass shooter pathetic and referring to him by his race. But it's not inferring when Gern confirms that's what he meant. 
    And nothing against Gern, because every time it is a white guy that seems to be a focus. But whits are no more responsible for mass shootings than any other group.
    Do we say whites are horrible drivers because they make up 70% of car accidents? No, they make up 70% of the population so it makes sense they are involved in 70% of accidents. But when they make up 58% of mass shootings, they are more at fault?
    Race is not a factor, we don't need to keep bringing race into it.
    Guns are a problem. Access to guns is a problem. White people are not. 
    Considering the way our country responded to it's first ever black president, I'm going to go ahead and disagree wholeheartedly that white people aren't a problem. 
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,884

    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

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    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
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    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
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    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,874

    Again, that is because they make up 71% of the population. They don't commit more mass shootings than their percentage of the population. Therefore it is not a white problem. 
    I didn't find this exact article, but according to Newsweek that committee 54% of mass shootings while making up 71% of the population.
    https://www.newsweek.com/white-men-have-committed-more-mass-shootings-any-other-group-675602

    If you ignore population, then you're ignoring a huge part of the statistic that makes it relevant. 
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,874
    If you ignore the total population, then you must be arguing Jewish hate crime isn't a problem. Despite Jews being victims of 7% of hate crimes, they only make up 2% of the population. But still, only 7% of hate crimes are against Jews, so there must not be a problem then?
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,022
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mace1229 said:
    I always see these comments after a shooting. But the data doesn't back it up Mass shootings are not a "white" problem, but it is typically portrayed as one.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/

    Using the FBI definition of a mass shooting of 3 fatalities or more, only 58% are from white shooters.

    The number doesn't change by a lot using a different definition. 

    parse out the gang affiliated shooting from that. what do those numbers look like then?
    Moving the goal posts to fit a narrative then is what I'd call that.



    to start, mace inferred that Gern was saying all mass shootings are white guys. he didnt say that.

    2. breaking down the types of mass shootings are moving the goal posts? Given most of the white guy mass shootings used legal weapons or by those with access to same and most gang mass shootings use illegal guns , I think that becomes an important distinction between the two.

    so please explain how you see it as moving the goal posts.
    Yes, its been said before that mass shootings is a white person's problem.
    I interpreted Gern's comment of "Another white guy who had been "wronged" who takes it out on society. Pathetic." as implying the same thing. If not, then I apologize to Gern for misunderstanding his comment. 

    And yes, excluding an entire population so that it fits a narrative is exactly that, moving the goal posts. You either agree or not that it's mostly a white problem. If you look at the data, you'd say it's not. If you listen to comments of "another white guy..." and ignore the data, or cherry pick it, then you'd probably say it is. 
    Why exclude anyone? Why not exclude angry white guys then, and claim they are zero percent of the problem?

    a variety of problems to address.

    First we'll go with the illegal gun flow that begin as legal purchases. big problem, no? Seems there are simple things to address this, BUT NRA beholden politicians that pander to a subset of Americans looking at only half of the amendment that grants that right.

    Second lets address the disaffected white guy with access to legal guns. This LV shooting in particular,  a PROFESSOR got butthurt he didnt get a job there. Now the PD searched his apt. in Henderson. Feels like a sense of entitlement here. So it begs a couple questions, why in the fuck do you move across the country without employment in your chosen field? He left a university in NC. IDK enough of this part to i.e. why he left NC, under what circumstances,  when, how long in LV, etc to really comment but on the surface wtf. Cops arent saying type of weapon, but I wonder when purchased etc.


    doing nothing isn't tenable imo.
    UNLESS you specifically and politicians and others of like mind EXPLICITLY STATE the needless death is acceptable to maintain the Government granted Right.
    None of that seems to have anything to do with my comment though.
    I was responding specifically to calling out whites. Why bring race into it if that wasn't the point? So, sounds like the comment was implying white people are at fault more often.

    I provided data to support the claim that race is not a factor in mass shootings, it's an all races problem. You said it is, as long as we ignore the gang data. You can't just ignore entire populations to fit your narrative. None of what you just posted has anything to do with that.

    The link you provided confirms white people are at fault more often than not.
    Whites make up about 75% of the country, but less than 75% of mass shootings. 
    You complained that the comment was implying that white people are at fault more often. 

    They are. 
    Not any more than the percentage they make up the population. If you're going to blame a race for something, I would assume you factor in population. Of course LA has more homicides than Bakersfield. But compare the population of the 2 and Bakersfield is worse.
    With that logic, for you to admit there is say an Asian crime problem, Asian crime would have to rise to 51% of the overall crime? That makes no sense.
    Blaming white people for mass shootings doesn't make sense either when they make up more than 70% of the population, but less than 60% of the shootings. So why bring race into it?
    You’re looking at the broader label of mass shootings and concluding all the motives are the same. Gang violence is not in the same boat as violence perpetuated by someone who decides they’re going to kill random people in public in response to a trigger event. The latter category is disproportionately done by whites. 
    Just went through the top of this list:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

    I skipped the ones that were targeted, they were not random like you said. I didn't have time to go through the whole list, but out of the first 16 random shooters on this list, 10 of them were not white (4 of them were one single incident "working" together).

    Some people focus on race when its a white guy, and ignore it when its not. I'm not convinced the angry random shooter is mostly white.

    Dis you see how big the list is? There’s 27 entries just for this year. 

    think we are up to 40 now?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,874
    mickeyrat said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mace1229 said:
    I always see these comments after a shooting. But the data doesn't back it up Mass shootings are not a "white" problem, but it is typically portrayed as one.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/

    Using the FBI definition of a mass shooting of 3 fatalities or more, only 58% are from white shooters.

    The number doesn't change by a lot using a different definition. 

    parse out the gang affiliated shooting from that. what do those numbers look like then?
    Moving the goal posts to fit a narrative then is what I'd call that.



    to start, mace inferred that Gern was saying all mass shootings are white guys. he didnt say that.

    2. breaking down the types of mass shootings are moving the goal posts? Given most of the white guy mass shootings used legal weapons or by those with access to same and most gang mass shootings use illegal guns , I think that becomes an important distinction between the two.

    so please explain how you see it as moving the goal posts.
    Yes, its been said before that mass shootings is a white person's problem.
    I interpreted Gern's comment of "Another white guy who had been "wronged" who takes it out on society. Pathetic." as implying the same thing. If not, then I apologize to Gern for misunderstanding his comment. 

    And yes, excluding an entire population so that it fits a narrative is exactly that, moving the goal posts. You either agree or not that it's mostly a white problem. If you look at the data, you'd say it's not. If you listen to comments of "another white guy..." and ignore the data, or cherry pick it, then you'd probably say it is. 
    Why exclude anyone? Why not exclude angry white guys then, and claim they are zero percent of the problem?

    a variety of problems to address.

    First we'll go with the illegal gun flow that begin as legal purchases. big problem, no? Seems there are simple things to address this, BUT NRA beholden politicians that pander to a subset of Americans looking at only half of the amendment that grants that right.

    Second lets address the disaffected white guy with access to legal guns. This LV shooting in particular,  a PROFESSOR got butthurt he didnt get a job there. Now the PD searched his apt. in Henderson. Feels like a sense of entitlement here. So it begs a couple questions, why in the fuck do you move across the country without employment in your chosen field? He left a university in NC. IDK enough of this part to i.e. why he left NC, under what circumstances,  when, how long in LV, etc to really comment but on the surface wtf. Cops arent saying type of weapon, but I wonder when purchased etc.


    doing nothing isn't tenable imo.
    UNLESS you specifically and politicians and others of like mind EXPLICITLY STATE the needless death is acceptable to maintain the Government granted Right.
    None of that seems to have anything to do with my comment though.
    I was responding specifically to calling out whites. Why bring race into it if that wasn't the point? So, sounds like the comment was implying white people are at fault more often.

    I provided data to support the claim that race is not a factor in mass shootings, it's an all races problem. You said it is, as long as we ignore the gang data. You can't just ignore entire populations to fit your narrative. None of what you just posted has anything to do with that.

    The link you provided confirms white people are at fault more often than not.
    Whites make up about 75% of the country, but less than 75% of mass shootings. 
    You complained that the comment was implying that white people are at fault more often. 

    They are. 
    Not any more than the percentage they make up the population. If you're going to blame a race for something, I would assume you factor in population. Of course LA has more homicides than Bakersfield. But compare the population of the 2 and Bakersfield is worse.
    With that logic, for you to admit there is say an Asian crime problem, Asian crime would have to rise to 51% of the overall crime? That makes no sense.
    Blaming white people for mass shootings doesn't make sense either when they make up more than 70% of the population, but less than 60% of the shootings. So why bring race into it?
    You’re looking at the broader label of mass shootings and concluding all the motives are the same. Gang violence is not in the same boat as violence perpetuated by someone who decides they’re going to kill random people in public in response to a trigger event. The latter category is disproportionately done by whites. 
    Just went through the top of this list:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

    I skipped the ones that were targeted, they were not random like you said. I didn't have time to go through the whole list, but out of the first 16 random shooters on this list, 10 of them were not white (4 of them were one single incident "working" together).

    Some people focus on race when its a white guy, and ignore it when its not. I'm not convinced the angry random shooter is mostly white.

    Dis you see how big the list is? There’s 27 entries just for this year. 

    think we are up to 40 now?
    Depends on the definition used. But if you expand the list on the wikipedia link, they used the definition of 4 or more people shot, and the list is well over 100.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,022

     
    Michigan teen gets life in prison for Oxford High School attack
    By ED WHITE and COREY WILLIAMS
    Today

    PONTIAC, Mich. (AP) — A judge sentenced a Michigan teenager to life in prison Friday for killing four students and terrorizing others at Oxford High School, after listening to hours of gripping anguish from parents and wounded survivors.

    Judge Kwame Rowe rejected pleas from defense lawyers for a shorter sentence and ensured that Ethan Crumbley, 17, will not get an opportunity for parole.

    Moments before learning his fate, the teen apologized and appeared to agree with his victims that the stiffest punishment was appropriate.

    “Any sentence that they ask for, I ask that you do impose it on me,” the shooter said. “I want them to be happy, and I want them to feel secure and safe. I do not want them to worry another day. I really am sorry for what I’ve done. ... But I can try my best in the future to help other people, and that is what I will do.”

    Life sentences for teenagers are rare in Michigan since the U.S. Supreme Court and the state’s highest court said the acts of minors must be viewed differently than the crimes of adults. But Oakland County prosecutor Karen McDonald said a no-parole order fit the Oxford case.

    “It’s not a moment to celebrate," McDonald said outside court. "It’s tragic. And the voices today, I think, profoundly show that.”

    Indeed, Rowe’s decision followed deeply emotional remarks by families of the deceased and survivors who said the tragedy had irreparably turned their lives upside down.

    Crumbley, who was 15 when he committed the shooting, pleaded guilty to first-degree murder and terrorism. He brought a gun to school, but his backpack was never checked, even after his parents were summoned that same day about their son's drawings, which included a gun and words: “The thoughts won’t stop. Help me.”

    “I am a really bad person. I’ve done terrible things,” Crumbley said in court Friday.

    The judge said the shooting was planned well in advance, and he noted that the shooter had plenty of time to stop as he walked through school.

    Rowe was especially troubled by how victim Hana St. Juliana was repeatedly shot and that another, Justin Shilling, was shot at point-blank range in a bathroom while another student was forced to watch. He described it as “execution” and “torture.”

    “The court cannot ignore the deep trauma caused to the state of Michigan and the Oxford community,” the judge said.

    Earlier, Rowe allowed a framed photo of Tate Myre to be placed near him while the slain teen's father spoke.

    “We are miserable. We miss Tate,” Buck Myre said. “Our family has a permanent hole in it that can never be fixed — ever.”

    Nicole Beausoleil recalled seeing the body of her daughter, Madisyn Baldwin, at the medical examiner's office, her hand with blue-painted fingernails sticking out from a covering.

    “I looked though the glass. My scream should have shattered it,” Beausoleil said.

    Shilling's mother, Jill Soave, told the shooter that he executed a boy who could have helped him navigate awkward teenage years.

    “If you were that lonely, that miserable and lost, and you really needed a friend, Justin would have been your friend — if only you had asked,” Soave said.

    Kylie Ossege explained how she had urged St. Juliana a “thousand times” to keep breathing while they waited for help on a blood-soaked carpet. Her classmate died.

    Ossege, now a college student, was shot and continues to struggle with daily pain from spinal injuries.

    “Being able to swing a leg over my horse is my therapy. It is pure joy,” she said of Blaze. “I have not been able to do it for two years.”

    Crumbley's defense team urged the judge to give him a chance to turn his life around and become eligible for parole. A court-appointed guardian, lawyer Deborah McKelvy, said the teen was not the same person, two years after the murders.

    “He is a bright young man,” she told the judge. “He is an artist. He is a historian. There are days I have been oblivious sitting in a cell for three hours just talking to him. His life is salvageable.”

    Defense lawyer Paulette Michel Loftin said Crumbley has improved with medication and mental health care.

    “He is remorseful. He has been able to keep out the dark voices and thoughts,” Loftin said.

    But victims weren't impressed.

    "There can be no rehabilitation,” St. Juliana's father, Steve St. Juliana, told the judge. “There is absolutely nothing the defendant can do to earn my forgiveness. His age plays no part.”

    In a journal, the shooter wrote about his desire to watch students suffer and the likelihood that he would spend his life in prison. He made a video on the eve of the shooting, declaring what he would do the next day.

    Linda Watson said her son Aiden, who was shot in the leg, still doesn't go to school for a full day. She recalled the family staying in a hotel because a nail gun being used in her neighborhood sounded like a real gun to him.

    “Aiden will be dealing with this for the rest of his life. ... This shooter — this monster — should have to feel everything hard and painful for the rest of his life," Watson said.

    Meanwhile, parents Jennifer and James Crumbley are locked up in the county jail. They are awaiting trial on involuntary manslaughter charges, accused of making a gun accessible at home and neglecting their son's mental health.

    The shooting happened in Oxford Township, about 40 miles (60 kilometers) north of Detroit. Besides the four students who were killed, six more students and a teacher also were wounded.

    The Oxford school district hired an outside group to conduct an independent investigation. A report released in October said “missteps at each level” — school board, administrators, staff — contributed to the tragedy.

    Crumbley's behavior in class, including looking at a shooting video and gun ammunition on his phone, should have identified him as a “potential threat of violence,” the report said.

    ___

    Follow Ed White at http://twitter.com/edwritez


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,884
    mickeyrat said:

     
    Michigan teen gets life in prison for Oxford High School attack
    By ED WHITE and COREY WILLIAMS
    Today

    PONTIAC, Mich. (AP) — A judge sentenced a Michigan teenager to life in prison Friday for killing four students and terrorizing others at Oxford High School, after listening to hours of gripping anguish from parents and wounded survivors.

    Judge Kwame Rowe rejected pleas from defense lawyers for a shorter sentence and ensured that Ethan Crumbley, 17, will not get an opportunity for parole.

    Moments before learning his fate, the teen apologized and appeared to agree with his victims that the stiffest punishment was appropriate.

    “Any sentence that they ask for, I ask that you do impose it on me,” the shooter said. “I want them to be happy, and I want them to feel secure and safe. I do not want them to worry another day. I really am sorry for what I’ve done. ... But I can try my best in the future to help other people, and that is what I will do.”

    Life sentences for teenagers are rare in Michigan since the U.S. Supreme Court and the state’s highest court said the acts of minors must be viewed differently than the crimes of adults. But Oakland County prosecutor Karen McDonald said a no-parole order fit the Oxford case.

    “It’s not a moment to celebrate," McDonald said outside court. "It’s tragic. And the voices today, I think, profoundly show that.”

    Indeed, Rowe’s decision followed deeply emotional remarks by families of the deceased and survivors who said the tragedy had irreparably turned their lives upside down.

    Crumbley, who was 15 when he committed the shooting, pleaded guilty to first-degree murder and terrorism. He brought a gun to school, but his backpack was never checked, even after his parents were summoned that same day about their son's drawings, which included a gun and words: “The thoughts won’t stop. Help me.”

    “I am a really bad person. I’ve done terrible things,” Crumbley said in court Friday.

    The judge said the shooting was planned well in advance, and he noted that the shooter had plenty of time to stop as he walked through school.

    Rowe was especially troubled by how victim Hana St. Juliana was repeatedly shot and that another, Justin Shilling, was shot at point-blank range in a bathroom while another student was forced to watch. He described it as “execution” and “torture.”

    “The court cannot ignore the deep trauma caused to the state of Michigan and the Oxford community,” the judge said.

    Earlier, Rowe allowed a framed photo of Tate Myre to be placed near him while the slain teen's father spoke.

    “We are miserable. We miss Tate,” Buck Myre said. “Our family has a permanent hole in it that can never be fixed — ever.”

    Nicole Beausoleil recalled seeing the body of her daughter, Madisyn Baldwin, at the medical examiner's office, her hand with blue-painted fingernails sticking out from a covering.

    “I looked though the glass. My scream should have shattered it,” Beausoleil said.

    Shilling's mother, Jill Soave, told the shooter that he executed a boy who could have helped him navigate awkward teenage years.

    “If you were that lonely, that miserable and lost, and you really needed a friend, Justin would have been your friend — if only you had asked,” Soave said.

    Kylie Ossege explained how she had urged St. Juliana a “thousand times” to keep breathing while they waited for help on a blood-soaked carpet. Her classmate died.

    Ossege, now a college student, was shot and continues to struggle with daily pain from spinal injuries.

    “Being able to swing a leg over my horse is my therapy. It is pure joy,” she said of Blaze. “I have not been able to do it for two years.”

    Crumbley's defense team urged the judge to give him a chance to turn his life around and become eligible for parole. A court-appointed guardian, lawyer Deborah McKelvy, said the teen was not the same person, two years after the murders.

    “He is a bright young man,” she told the judge. “He is an artist. He is a historian. There are days I have been oblivious sitting in a cell for three hours just talking to him. His life is salvageable.”

    Defense lawyer Paulette Michel Loftin said Crumbley has improved with medication and mental health care.

    “He is remorseful. He has been able to keep out the dark voices and thoughts,” Loftin said.

    But victims weren't impressed.

    "There can be no rehabilitation,” St. Juliana's father, Steve St. Juliana, told the judge. “There is absolutely nothing the defendant can do to earn my forgiveness. His age plays no part.”

    In a journal, the shooter wrote about his desire to watch students suffer and the likelihood that he would spend his life in prison. He made a video on the eve of the shooting, declaring what he would do the next day.

    Linda Watson said her son Aiden, who was shot in the leg, still doesn't go to school for a full day. She recalled the family staying in a hotel because a nail gun being used in her neighborhood sounded like a real gun to him.

    “Aiden will be dealing with this for the rest of his life. ... This shooter — this monster — should have to feel everything hard and painful for the rest of his life," Watson said.

    Meanwhile, parents Jennifer and James Crumbley are locked up in the county jail. They are awaiting trial on involuntary manslaughter charges, accused of making a gun accessible at home and neglecting their son's mental health.

    The shooting happened in Oxford Township, about 40 miles (60 kilometers) north of Detroit. Besides the four students who were killed, six more students and a teacher also were wounded.

    The Oxford school district hired an outside group to conduct an independent investigation. A report released in October said “missteps at each level” — school board, administrators, staff — contributed to the tragedy.

    Crumbley's behavior in class, including looking at a shooting video and gun ammunition on his phone, should have identified him as a “potential threat of violence,” the report said.

    ___

    Follow Ed White at http://twitter.com/edwritez


    Crazy thing is that the shooter in my city is out now. Why? No one died. 

    https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/hamilton-county/noblesville/2023/10/04/noblesville-west-middle-school-shooter-released-juvenile-detention-gps-monitoring-parents/71057809007/
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,022
    mickeyrat said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mace1229 said:
    I always see these comments after a shooting. But the data doesn't back it up Mass shootings are not a "white" problem, but it is typically portrayed as one.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/

    Using the FBI definition of a mass shooting of 3 fatalities or more, only 58% are from white shooters.

    The number doesn't change by a lot using a different definition. 

    parse out the gang affiliated shooting from that. what do those numbers look like then?
    Moving the goal posts to fit a narrative then is what I'd call that.



    to start, mace inferred that Gern was saying all mass shootings are white guys. he didnt say that.

    2. breaking down the types of mass shootings are moving the goal posts? Given most of the white guy mass shootings used legal weapons or by those with access to same and most gang mass shootings use illegal guns , I think that becomes an important distinction between the two.

    so please explain how you see it as moving the goal posts.
    Yes, its been said before that mass shootings is a white person's problem.
    I interpreted Gern's comment of "Another white guy who had been "wronged" who takes it out on society. Pathetic." as implying the same thing. If not, then I apologize to Gern for misunderstanding his comment. 

    And yes, excluding an entire population so that it fits a narrative is exactly that, moving the goal posts. You either agree or not that it's mostly a white problem. If you look at the data, you'd say it's not. If you listen to comments of "another white guy..." and ignore the data, or cherry pick it, then you'd probably say it is. 
    Why exclude anyone? Why not exclude angry white guys then, and claim they are zero percent of the problem?

    a variety of problems to address.

    First we'll go with the illegal gun flow that begin as legal purchases. big problem, no? Seems there are simple things to address this, BUT NRA beholden politicians that pander to a subset of Americans looking at only half of the amendment that grants that right.

    Second lets address the disaffected white guy with access to legal guns. This LV shooting in particular,  a PROFESSOR got butthurt he didnt get a job there. Now the PD searched his apt. in Henderson. Feels like a sense of entitlement here. So it begs a couple questions, why in the fuck do you move across the country without employment in your chosen field? He left a university in NC. IDK enough of this part to i.e. why he left NC, under what circumstances,  when, how long in LV, etc to really comment but on the surface wtf. Cops arent saying type of weapon, but I wonder when purchased etc.


    doing nothing isn't tenable imo.
    UNLESS you specifically and politicians and others of like mind EXPLICITLY STATE the needless death is acceptable to maintain the Government granted Right.


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,884


    I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 10,289
    edited December 2023


    I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?
    This is  America, guns are the solution to everything. 


  • I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?
    This is  America, guns are the solution to everything. 
    Even too many doors?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?
    This is  America, guns are the solution to everything. 
    Even too many doors?
    It depends... are the doors merely open carrying, or are they brandishing? 


  • I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?
    This is  America, guns are the solution to everything. 
    Even too many doors?
    It depends... are the doors merely open carrying, or are they brandishing? 
    Well, they should be full damn full of holes.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?
    This is  America, guns are the solution to everything. 
    Even too many doors?
    It depends... are the doors merely open carrying, or are they brandishing? 
    Well, they should be full damn full of holes.
    Holes in doors will make it easier for you to shoot people through them.  

    That's a big win for America. 


  • I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?
    This is  America, guns are the solution to everything. 
    Even too many doors?
    It depends... are the doors merely open carrying, or are they brandishing? 
    Well, they should be full damn full of holes.
    Holes in doors will make it easier for you to shoot people through them.  

    That's a big win for America. 
    I thought it was so you could see the bad guys with guns coming and when there were no bad guys, easier to close? Less resistance?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?
    This is  America, guns are the solution to everything. 
    Even too many doors?
    It depends... are the doors merely open carrying, or are they brandishing? 
    Well, they should be full damn full of holes.
    Holes in doors will make it easier for you to shoot people through them.  

    That's a big win for America. 
    I thought it was so you could see the bad guys with guns coming and when there were no bad guys, easier to close? Less resistance?
    Reservoirdogs Finger Guns GIF - Reservoirdogs Finger Guns Happy - Discover   Share GIFs
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,874


    I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?
    Or that Jews are bad?
  • mace1229 said:


    I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?
    Or that Jews are bad?
    Isn't Ohio a hotbed for alt rights?
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 10,505


    I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?
    Where did he learn that Jews needed to be killed?
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,184


    I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?
    Where did he learn that Jews needed to be killed?
    At home it all starts at home with mommy& daddy 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,022
    https://apnews.com/article/virginia-student-shot-teacher-mother-sentencing-9b99a00c2745dcbcd49b4c25f2a86f96   Mother of 6-year-old who shot teacher in Virginia gets 2 years in prison for child neglect

     
    Mother of 6-year-old who shot teacher in Virginia gets 2 years in prison for child neglect
    By BEN FINLEY and DENISE LAVOIE
    Today

    NEWPORT NEWS, Va. (AP) — The mother of a 6-year-old boy who shot his teacher in a Virginia classroom was sentenced Friday to two years in prison for felony child neglect by a judge who chastised her for abdicating her responsibilities as a parent.

    Deja Taylor's sentence was much harsher than the maximum six months prosecutors had agreed to recommend as part of a plea deal and also surpassed the high end of advisory state sentencing guidelines. Taylor, 26, pleaded guilty to a single count of felony neglect in August. As part of the plea agreement, prosecutors agreed to drop a misdemeanor count of recklessly storing a firearm.

    Circuit Court Judge Christopher Papile said the sentencing guidelines did not take into account the shooting's physical and psychological toll on first-grade teacher Abigail Zwerner or the emotional trauma it has wrought on other students and staff at Richneck Elementary School in Newport News.

    Zwerner was critically injured when the boy fired a single shot at her, striking her hand and chest, breaking bones and puncturing a lung. She spent weeks in the hospital, had five surgeries, and says she is so mentally scarred by the shooting that she does not plan to return to teaching.

    Papile noted that “we are lucky” someone wasn't killed at the elementary school. In admonishing Taylor, the judge said a parent's ultimately responsibility is to "protect the child, to keep them from bad influences, to keep them from dangerous situations, to keep them healthy and nurtured. Ms. Taylor has abdicated most, if not all, of those responsibilities.”

    The state sentence handed down Friday was the second time Taylor was held to account for the classroom shooting in January, which stunned the nation and shook this military shipbuilding city.

    Taylor was sentenced in November to 21 months in federal prison for using marijuana while owning a gun, which is illegal under U.S. law. Her state sentence will be served consecutively, making a combined state and federal sentence of nearly four years behind bars.

    Taylor’s son told authorities he got his mother’s 9 mm handgun by climbing onto a drawer to reach the top of a dresser, where the firearm was in his mom’s purse. He concealed the weapon in his backpack and then his pocket before shooting Zwerner in front of her first-grade class.

    Moments later, the boy told a reading specialist who restrained him, “I shot that (expletive) dead,” and “I got my mom’s gun last night,” according to search warrants.

    Taylor initially told police she had secured her gun with a trigger lock, but investigators said they never found one.

    Following the shooting, the boy was removed from his mother's custody and spent 227 days in inpatient treatment, during which he was attended to by a team of physicians, psychiatrists and other clinicians, prosecutor Travis White told the judge. The boy, now 7, had problems with “basic socialization” and suffered from post-traumatic stress syndrome and insomnia, among other disorders.

    “That is the depths of neglect that Deja Taylor inflicted on her child,” the prosecutor said, calling the shooting “a consequence and manifestation of that neglect.”

    The boy now lives with his great-grandfather, Calvin Taylor, who told reporters after the hearing that he believes the sentence handed down by Papile is “excessive.” He said Deja Taylor tried to get help for her son before the shooting but child protective services did not follow through on her request.

    The elder Taylor said the boy is now doing well in a structured environment. The child told him that he wanted “Santa to bring his mom home for Christmas.”

    Deja Taylor did not speak during Friday's hearing. Her attorney, James Ellenson, said Taylor struggled with addiction and domestic violence. He said Taylor, 26, smoked marijuana “all day, every day” since age 15.

    “Who knows what the effects were on that teenage brain?” he said.

    Ellenson said earlier this year there were “ mitigating circumstances,” including Taylor’s miscarriages and postpartum depression. She also has been diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder, a condition sharing symptoms with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, according to court documents.

    Taylor told ABC’s “Good Morning America” in May that she feels responsible and apologized to Zwerner.

    “That is my son, so I am, as a parent, obviously willing to take responsibility for him because he can’t take responsibility for himself,” Taylor said.

    During her sentencing in federal court last month, one of Taylor’s attorneys read aloud a brief statement in which Taylor said she would feel remorse “for the rest of my life.”

    Zwerner is suing Newport News Public Schools for $40 million, alleging administrators ignored multiple warnings the boy had a gun at school the day of the shooting.

    During the sentencing hearing Friday, Zwerner recounted the shooting, telling the judge: “I was not sure whether it would be my final moment on earth.”

    She said she suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder, anxiety and depression, and has difficulty sleeping.

    “The shooting has instilled many fears in me that will remain forever," she said.

    She said she will not return to teaching because she's now afraid to work with children.

    “Now, at 26 years old, what am I supposed to do?” she said. “My life will never be close to the same again.”


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
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  • StoveStove Posts: 310
    I've always been more partial to arming bears
    SSH
  • If they can’t be “responsible” with their firearms, should they lose their “right” to them? Fucking madness.

    https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/tsa-guns-carry-on-luggage-airport/index.html
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • If they can’t be “responsible” with their firearms, should they lose their “right” to them? Fucking madness.

    https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/tsa-guns-carry-on-luggage-airport/index.html
    Things like this aggravate the piss out of me.  The amount of signs stating "NO FIREARMS" is redundant.

    It's a felony and if convicted they will lose that right to bear arms.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,022
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

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    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
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    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,246
    mickeyrat said:
    Will he be convicted of a felony, as a responsible gun owner, and lose his right to possess? Nah, he’s suffered enough. But his 6 year old should spend a year or two in juvy.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,022
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,022
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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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