Just know if I was a black female getting pulled over after having to eat the shit sandwich I'm given due to color of my skin may be a bit pissed off as well.
If all you folks were born black you would all have a different tune. Yes her demeanor hurt her get that. Your all not rocket scientists stating that. Just pull yourself out of your shoes. Blacks have reason to be pissed off. I give and do my part daily to reach out and be nice to my fellow human. What are you all doing to make this a better world.
Still having a bad day. Would pull "rocket scientist" descriptor but leaving for affect.
The cops don't necessarily have an easy job. That one cop who was fired recently for pulling a gun on a girl at a pool party had just been to two suicide scenes earlier that day and should not have taken that last call. I get that a black individual may have the attitude "here we go again" when getting pulled over, but that cop may also say "here we go again" when he gets too much attidude at a simple vehicle stop when he or she has just had to deal with a far more difficult/sad issue than a traffic stop.
I'm not saying these facts apply to this case but if we are going to give people excuses to give cops attitude, then a cop may need the benefit of the doubt sometimes too as they see and have to deal with some very bad stuff. No one is perfect.
Agree and have many times stated the police are left to deal with our crap.
If the officer did what he is paid and trained to do we would not be having this discussion.Public tax dollars are paid to officers to have them serve and protect the public.They are trained to de-escalate agitated situations.This officer let his emotions taker over.Sandra Bland originally complied with his orders and followed his instructions until he started to bait her with unnecessary, irrelevant questions.He seemed to be instigating instead of handing her the ticket and ending it right there.He got what he wanted.In this instance .Even his employer stated that he did not follow protocol.Telling Sandra that he was going to light her up reeks of anger issues, incompetence and a complete lack of professionalism.And because of this, a tragic chain of events followed and a young woman who cared about our world and made positive contributions is now gone.Regardless of the differences of opinions, Sandra Bland is gone from this world and her friends and family are left to suffer and grieve.Heartbreaking to me.
Great Idea,let's blame the cop for her death.Its all his fault.Can we please have some personal responsibility.My gosh this board is Sooo bleeding heart sometimes it's unbelievable. He was a dick,we can all agree on that.She was troubled apparently and took her own life.Lets blame others,awesome Idea.Personal accountability!!!!!!!
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northern spirit
I'm not present, I'm a drug that makes you dream Posts: 186
Again Gern,all coulda been avoided if she(regardless of his actions) just complied with a simple request.Hedos point about the radio was spot on.
Why regardless of HIS actions? HE is the one being paid by tax money to protect citizens. SHE is exercising her rights (without brains or class, but class is not a requisite to rights), so why do you refuse to acknowledge his share of the blame?
His actions were a reaction to her stubbornness.If compliance had been quick coming he wouldn't have gone into douche mode in the first place.
Yes, you are correct. He reacted to her behavior.He should not have.He is paid not to.Trained not to. He had the power to control the situation.He failed at that.Instead of de-escalating, he engaged her.Completely pointless and his actions were called out by his own Police Force.He made the wrong choices and needs to be held to account.
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Just know if I was a black female getting pulled over after having to eat the shit sandwich I'm given due to color of my skin may be a bit pissed off as well.
If all you folks were born black you would all have a different tune. Yes her demeanor hurt her get that. Your all not rocket scientists stating that. Just pull yourself out of your shoes. Blacks have reason to be pissed off. I give and do my part daily to reach out and be nice to my fellow human. What are you all doing to make this a better world.
Still having a bad day. Would pull "rocket scientist" descriptor but leaving for affect.
Comes across as a little pompous.
And, your venom is a little misdirected. It's not the fault of the police that poverty exists in many minority groups resulting in a growing disconnect for, in this case, some blacks with the mainstream. Your country's dedication to and pursuit of ruthless capitalistic ideals and profit margins have created the situation police deal with at the point of the problem.
Blame your crusty old, white haired policy makers and their staunch supporters for the inequities that have led to the swell of civil unrest on the part of hopeless people that have grown angry realizing they have no chance.
The cop didn't handle the situation very well, but it was a challenging one given the amount of disrespect pouring out at him. None of what I saw should have him suspended. A little mentoring might be a better solution. I'd like to know if those who are arguing against the 'police apologists' ever screw up at their 'cushy' jobs. I say cushy because... let's get serious... there aren't many jobs with the vocational hazards and challenges a police job features.
Having said that, it seems like there are a few perfectly suited for the work. They seem to know exactly how to deal with all these situations that present themselves on this forum. With such an advanced skill set, I wish they would put their money where their mouths are, get active in the service, and offer the profession the leadership and wisdom they possess.
Yes acknowledged my tone and knew I could of used better words but alas.
My "venom" was not directed at the officer. Reread my posts.
The more I learn about this whole thing, the more I think this actually could have been outright murder by someone or other, for one reason or another. Just because someone is hanging by her neck, it doesn't automatically mean that she committed suicide. Everyone who knew her believes that she wasn't suicidal. Yes, of course it's still possible that she did. But there are enough questions about just that to warrant investigation.
Absolutely.So many assumptions being made without knowing all of the facts and what transpired.
That's the problem with most of the new reports on any subject. There is usually enough missing information that assumptions get drawn. Based on current, reported evidence, I'm assuming she did it to herself. She admitted being suicidal in the not so distant past on her intake forms when she was booked. I think that carries more weight than having her family say that they believe she wasn't suicidal. Sometimes those closest don't see what is right in front of them. So I'll go with that assumption until more facts are revealed, and in the meantime hope that a thorough investigation is done by the FBI and the Texas Rangers.
If the officer did what he is paid and trained to do we would not be having this discussion.Public tax dollars are paid to officers to have them serve and protect the public.They are trained to de-escalate agitated situations.This officer let his emotions taker over.Sandra Bland originally complied with his orders and followed his instructions until he started to bait her with unnecessary, irrelevant questions.He seemed to be instigating instead of handing her the ticket and ending it right there.He got what he wanted.In this instance .Even his employer stated that he did not follow protocol.Telling Sandra that he was going to light her up reeks of anger issues, incompetence and a complete lack of professionalism.And because of this, a tragic chain of events followed and a young woman who cared about our world and made positive contributions is now gone.Regardless of the differences of opinions, Sandra Bland is gone from this world and her friends and family are left to suffer and grieve.Heartbreaking to me.
What's also lost in all this is the fact that the officer asked her if she was okay... later stating she seemed agitated (essentially asking if she was okay again).
He never pulled her over and proceeded to badger her into a foul disposition- she had that from the outset. He became agitated when she blew a smoke cloud into his face after he asked her to put her cigarette out.
It's really disturbing how people demonize cops at every turn, while thinking the most of the people they are forced to deal with. It's f**king mind numbing.
30B,your forehead hurting yet from beating against the wall????sheesh
Again Gern,all coulda been avoided if she(regardless of his actions) just complied with a simple request.Hedos point about the radio was spot on.
Why regardless of HIS actions? HE is the one being paid by tax money to protect citizens. SHE is exercising her rights (without brains or class, but class is not a requisite to rights), so why do you refuse to acknowledge his share of the blame?
His actions were a reaction to her stubbornness.If compliance had been quick coming he wouldn't have gone into douche mode in the first place.
Yes, you are correct. He reacted to her behavior.He should not have.He is paid not to.Trained not to. He had the power to control the situation.He failed at that.Instead of de-escalating, he engaged her.Completely pointless and his actions were called out by his own Police Force.He made the wrong choices and needs to be held to account.
This has nothing to do with her self inflicted death and she did indeed create this situation with all of her actions.No signal,smoke,attitude and belligerence.
Just know if I was a black female getting pulled over after having to eat the shit sandwich I'm given due to color of my skin may be a bit pissed off as well.
If all you folks were born black you would all have a different tune. Yes her demeanor hurt her get that. Your all not rocket scientists stating that. Just pull yourself out of your shoes. Blacks have reason to be pissed off. I give and do my part daily to reach out and be nice to my fellow human. What are you all doing to make this a better world.
Still having a bad day. Would pull "rocket scientist" descriptor but leaving for affect.
The cops don't necessarily have an easy job. That one cop who was fired recently for pulling a gun on a girl at a pool party had just been to two suicide scenes earlier that day and should not have taken that last call. I get that a black individual may have the attitude "here we go again" when getting pulled over, but that cop may also say "here we go again" when he gets too much attidude at a simple vehicle stop when he or she has just had to deal with a far more difficult/sad issue than a traffic stop.
I'm not saying these facts apply to this case but if we are going to give people excuses to give cops attitude, then a cop may need the benefit of the doubt sometimes too as they see and have to deal with some very bad stuff. No one is perfect.
If you review my posts on that thread you will find I understood police officers situation and how he attempted to control situation. My comments aren't directed at the police officer though think he didn't follow procedures but understanding mindset of woman and how I would be a pretty pissed off black female if i was born as such and how us white folk have no fucking clue. That's it.
Again Gern,all coulda been avoided if she(regardless of his actions) just complied with a simple request.Hedos point about the radio was spot on.
Why regardless of HIS actions? HE is the one being paid by tax money to protect citizens. SHE is exercising her rights (without brains or class, but class is not a requisite to rights), so why do you refuse to acknowledge his share of the blame?
His actions were a reaction to her stubbornness.If compliance had been quick coming he wouldn't have gone into douche mode in the first place.
Yes, you are correct. He reacted to her behavior.He should not have.He is paid not to.Trained not to. He had the power to control the situation.He failed at that.Instead of de-escalating, he engaged her.Completely pointless and his actions were called out by his own Police Force.He made the wrong choices and needs to be held to account.
This has nothing to do with her self inflicted death and she did indeed create this situation with all of her actions.No signal,smoke,attitude and belligerence.
Why does he get a pass for attitude and belligerence and she does not? It only takes one to tango now?
I give in, it's all her fault, he didn't do anything to create the situation and anyone who gets agitated and tries to assert their rights should be assaulted by a police officer.
The more I learn about this whole thing, the more I think this actually could have been outright murder by someone or other, for one reason or another. Just because someone is hanging by her neck, it doesn't automatically mean that she committed suicide. Everyone who knew her believes that she wasn't suicidal. Yes, of course it's still possible that she did. But there are enough questions about just that to warrant investigation.
Absolutely.So many assumptions being made without knowing all of the facts and what transpired.
True, but the likelihood that someone went into her cell and did that to her is very small. It seemed like there were a lot of people around at least in the aftermath. Not to mention video surveillance. If someone did that to her intentionally, the optimist in me thinks somebody would come forward and not let that stand.
I wouldn't consider a cover-up particularly surprising. Much crazier things than that have happened, and with the mood in America when it comes to cops and race issues, there would actually be a motive for a cover-up. I'm not making any assumptions at all. Not rallying against the police or making accusations. It just has to be considered and investigated properly, not dismissed like the OP tries to do.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Gambs,he dosent get a pass.He did turn into a douche,but he started out fine.But he has zero to do with her death.
The woman was out of bounds by breaking traffic laws. In this situation, the woman was within her rights to be rude, but let's not forget the officer was within his rights to try and establish exactly what had this woman in such an intensified state of mind.
If she had acted reasonable and not pushed the envelope, all would likely be well right now (she may have even gotten a warning where she could have said, "Thank you!"). Because she was extremely agitated and belligerent, she opened the door for the officer to respond with heightened behaviour as well.
Once the situation escalated, it is unreasonable to expect the police officer to back down. It was incumbent upon the woman to back off instead of intensifying the brutal behaviour. She should have thought to herself, "Oh shit. Okay whoa. I'm sorry officer. I understand you are just doing your job. I'm out of line." But no... she continued to be increasingly outrageous.
That is not the typical behaviour of someone being pulled over. It is not out of the realm of possibilities that the cop may have developed some suspicions about the woman that he might have wanted to investigate as well (drug or alcohol use). He asked her, "Are you okay?" And later he also stated, "You seem really agitated."
Would it be good police work if a cop began to get suspicious about someone, but then simply shrugged it off?
Gambs,he dosent get a pass.He did turn into a douche,but he started out fine.But he has zero to do with her death.
The woman was out of bounds by breaking traffic laws. In this situation, the woman was within her rights to be rude, but let's not forget the officer was within his rights to try and establish exactly what had this woman in such an intensified state of mind.
If she had acted reasonable and not pushed the envelope, all would likely be well right now (she may have even gotten a warning where she could have said, "Thank you!"). Because she was extremely agitated and belligerent, she opened the door for the officer to respond with heightened behaviour as well.
Once the situation escalated, it is unreasonable to expect the police officer to back down. It was incumbent upon the woman to back off instead of intensifying the brutal behaviour. She should have thought to herself, "Oh shit. Okay whoa. I'm sorry officer. I understand you are just doing your job. I'm out of line." But no... she continued to be increasingly outrageous.
That is not the typical behaviour of someone being pulled over. It is not out of the realm of possibilities that the cop may have developed some suspicions about the woman that he might have wanted to investigate as well (drug or alcohol use). He asked her, "Are you okay?" And later he also stated, "You seem really agitated."
Would it be good police work if a cop began to get suspicious about someone, but then simply shrugged it off?
This is what happens when you don't respect the profession.
Where I come from, you don't demand respect, you earn it.
As I've said in several threads: you respect the profession. Personal respect is earned. If this woman respected the profession, she doesn't mouth off to the cop. I think even the cop haters can admit he was not initially the aggressor here. (Unless you say pulling the woman over was aggressive).
This is what happens when you don't respect the profession.
Where I come from, you don't demand respect, you earn it.
Sure. And exactly what did this woman do to 'earn' respect? What had the cop 'initially' done to lose respect? I say 'initially' because from all I could see, the cop was very courteous and patient. He eventually lost 'some' control and began yelling while taking the situation to the next level. I say 'some' because the bulk of this calamity rests on her shoulders- she reaped what she had sown.
We can agree that the cop could have handled it differently, but he didn't. He's not abusive for handling it the way he did though. The only abusive one in that video was the woman who became belligerent and rude over a simple traffic violation.
I think the cop was definitely an instigator of aggression. He had no reason to be grilling that woman the way he was, asking her those questions, and making her get out of the car. He approached the whole thing poorly, and the woman had what I see as an understandable reaction, taking into account the tension between cops and black people in America right now. The cop really should know better. Should she have bitten her tongue? Yes. Should the cop have approached her like a normal cop would during a routine traffic stop? Yes. If anyone should shoulder responsibility for doing something wrong, it should be the COP. He's doing a paid service. He has some responsibilities to meet as a trained, paid employee of the city and a keeper of the peace. The woman is under no such responsibility.
But that actually has nothing to do with the real problem here. I'm much more concerned about her death in police custody.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I think the cop was definitely an instigator of aggression. He had no reason to be grilling that woman the way he was, asking her those questions, and making her get out of the car. He approached the whole thing poorly, and the woman had what I see as an understandable reaction, taking into account the tension between cops and black people in America right now. The cop really should know better. Should she have bitten her tongue? Yes. Should the cop have approached her like a normal cop would during a routine traffic stop? Yes. If anyone should shoulder responsibility for doing something wrong, it should be the COP. He's doing a paid service. He has some responsibilities to meet as a trained, paid employee of the city and a keeper of the peace. The woman is under no such responsibility.
But that actually has nothing to do with the real problem here. I'm much more concerned about her death in police custody.
That's unbelievable. Your first sentence anyway. Even though I don't think cops should have to babysit all prisoners all the time, people should not be able to hang themselves in the cells.
Did anyone read the transcript that rgambs posted? It's pretty clear that when the officer asked Sandra if she was okay, he wasn't really asking out of concern; when she gave an honest answer of why she was upset, he replied with "are you done yet?", not exactly an answer that suggests he cared about her concerns. When he asked if she would "mind" putting out her cigarette, and she asked why she needed to - a legitimate question - he then demanded she get out of the car, something that there was no basis for. When she questioned why, thus asking a lawful question about procedure, he then proceeded to reach in and grab her and threaten to taser her.
The officer (1) needed to answer her lawful question about why she was being arrested, and (2) needed to have justification to proceed to physically remove her from the car. Even if an individual ignores, for instance, a police order to exit a vehicle the police do not have blanket authority to proceed to physical force, or "seizure". Force is only justified if it is not excessive and if there is a reason such as public safety, neither of which applied. Because he did neither of those, legal scholars and even his department have agreed that he exceeded his lawful authority.
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I think the cop was definitely an instigator of aggression. He had no reason to be grilling that woman the way he was, asking her those questions, and making her get out of the car. He approached the whole thing poorly, and the woman had what I see as an understandable reaction, taking into account the tension between cops and black people in America right now. The cop really should know better. Should she have bitten her tongue? Yes. Should the cop have approached her like a normal cop would during a routine traffic stop? Yes. If anyone should shoulder responsibility for doing something wrong, it should be the COP. He's doing a paid service. He has some responsibilities to meet as a trained, paid employee of the city and a keeper of the peace. The woman is under no such responsibility.
But that actually has nothing to do with the real problem here. I'm much more concerned about her death in police custody.
I may not have a responsibility to not eat a gallon of ice cream every night, but I don't do it because I don't want to get fat.
In the 10 times (I have a need for speed) that I've been pulled over in my life, I've always pulled over, kept my hands on the steering wheel, and waited until the cop arrived before I got into the glove compartment for vehicle registration. That is what I was taught in drivers' education and I still do it. I talk to the officer with respect. I get a ticket most times, but it is a fairly painless 20 minutes.
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mickeyrat
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I think the cop was definitely an instigator of aggression. He had no reason to be grilling that woman the way he was, asking her those questions, and making her get out of the car. He approached the whole thing poorly, and the woman had what I see as an understandable reaction, taking into account the tension between cops and black people in America right now. The cop really should know better. Should she have bitten her tongue? Yes. Should the cop have approached her like a normal cop would during a routine traffic stop? Yes. If anyone should shoulder responsibility for doing something wrong, it should be the COP. He's doing a paid service. He has some responsibilities to meet as a trained, paid employee of the city and a keeper of the peace. The woman is under no such responsibility.
But that actually has nothing to do with the real problem here. I'm much more concerned about her death in police custody.
That's unbelievable. Your first sentence anyway. Even though I don't think cops should have to babysit all prisoners all the time, people should be able to hang themselves in the cells.
But what if she didn't hang herself?? That is the entire point.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I think the cop was definitely an instigator of aggression. He had no reason to be grilling that woman the way he was, asking her those questions, and making her get out of the car. He approached the whole thing poorly, and the woman had what I see as an understandable reaction, taking into account the tension between cops and black people in America right now. The cop really should know better. Should she have bitten her tongue? Yes. Should the cop have approached her like a normal cop would during a routine traffic stop? Yes. If anyone should shoulder responsibility for doing something wrong, it should be the COP. He's doing a paid service. He has some responsibilities to meet as a trained, paid employee of the city and a keeper of the peace. The woman is under no such responsibility.
But that actually has nothing to do with the real problem here. I'm much more concerned about her death in police custody.
I may not have a responsibility to not eat a gallon of ice cream every night, but I don't do it because I don't want to get fat.
In the 10 times (I have a need for speed) that I've been pulled over in my life, I've always pulled over, kept my hands on the steering wheel, and waited until the cop arrived before I got into the glove compartment for vehicle registration. That is what I was taught in drivers' education and I still do it. I talk to the officer with respect. I get a ticket most times, but it is a fairly painless 20 minutes.
Yeah. I said she should have kept her mouth shut. I firmly believe that. But I think that our expectations should be directed at the police officer, who is on the job and should be using his training and behaving appropriately. The women is under no such obligation. Some random citizen has a lot more room to act stupid than a cop who's on the job does. And btw, it's not like the woman flipped out. She was obviously surprised and confused and mad about how the cop was treating her, and I don't blame her for any of those emotions. It was dumb of her to talk back, but it's not like she hit him or started screaming, or anything like that. She was slightly belligerent when a cop was treating her unfairly. It's not that bad IMO, and it also has nothing to do with her showing up dead in a cell three days later (when everyone she knows says she wasn't suicidal in any way, shape, or form).
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Did anyone read the transcript that rgambs posted? It's pretty clear that when the officer asked Sandra if she was okay, he wasn't really asking out of concern; when she gave an honest answer of why she was upset, he replied with "are you done yet?", not exactly an answer that suggests he cared about her concerns. When he asked if she would "mind" putting out her cigarette, and she asked why she needed to - a legitimate question - he then demanded she get out of the car, something that there was no basis for. When she questioned why, thus asking a lawful question about procedure, he then proceeded to reach in and grab her and threaten to taser her.
The officer (1) needed to answer her lawful question about why she was being arrested, and (2) needed to have justification to proceed to physically remove her from the car. Even if an individual ignores, for instance, a police order to exit a vehicle the police do not have blanket authority to proceed to physical force, or "seizure". Force is only justified if it is not excessive and if there is a reason such as public safety, neither of which applied. Because he did neither of those, legal scholars and even his department have agreed that he exceeded his lawful authority.
You she did nothing wrong guys and gals are missing the main point here.Police latitude in these situations is far reaching.A simple I thought I saw,I thought I smelled,I suspected she may have had a drink, give the officer not only the right but the authority to remove her from the vehicle.She can comply or not.Non compliance can get your stupid belligerent ass thrown in jail just because.Now we all know most won't hold up but it's a fact. If a cop wants to strip search your vehicle after a traffic stop he can do it wether you agree or not.The minute she broke the law with the very minor lane change infraction she was in the eyes of the law,breaking the law.The officer has most the cards here.Shutting your trap and complying is your best bet.
In my early 20's, I got pulled over a lot. Probably 15 times in three years. If I remember right, I was asked 5 or 6 times to step out of the vehicle. I didn't think anything of it. One time, at 4am, it was for a sobriety (I was on my way to work and not drinking). The others were to go into his car while he wrote the ticket or the warning.
During my time in the fire department, I have seen over 30 people get asked to step out of their car. One man refused. Turns out, he had about 9 pounds of weed in his trunk. I don't know why this woman would refuse other than simply to be a argumentative. It makes no sense to me.
I think the cop was definitely an instigator of aggression. He had no reason to be grilling that woman the way he was, asking her those questions, and making her get out of the car. He approached the whole thing poorly, and the woman had what I see as an understandable reaction, taking into account the tension between cops and black people in America right now. The cop really should know better. Should she have bitten her tongue? Yes. Should the cop have approached her like a normal cop would during a routine traffic stop? Yes. If anyone should shoulder responsibility for doing something wrong, it should be the COP. He's doing a paid service. He has some responsibilities to meet as a trained, paid employee of the city and a keeper of the peace. The woman is under no such responsibility.
But that actually has nothing to do with the real problem here. I'm much more concerned about her death in police custody.
That's unbelievable. Your first sentence anyway. Even though I don't think cops should have to babysit all prisoners all the time, people should be able to hang themselves in the cells.
But what if she didn't hang herself?? That is the entire point.
In my early 20's, I got pulled over a lot. Probably 15 times in three years. If I remember right, I was asked 5 or 6 times to step out of the vehicle. I didn't think anything of it. One time, at 4am, it was for a sobriety (I was on my way to work and not drinking). The others were to go into his car while he wrote the ticket or the warning.
During my time in the fire department, I have seen over 30 people get asked to step out of their car. One man refused. Turns out, he had about 9 pounds of weed in his trunk. I don't know why this woman would refuse other than simply to be a argumentative. It makes no sense to me.
You can't understand why a black woman doesn't want to get out of her car and put herself under the control of a male officer? Really?
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He was a dick,we can all agree on that.She was troubled apparently and took her own life.Lets blame others,awesome Idea.Personal accountability!!!!!!!
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2011 09-15 Hamilton ON Copps, 09-11 Toronto ON ACC, 09-12 Toronto ON ACC,
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2016 05-10, 05-12 Toronto ON ACC
My "venom" was not directed at the officer. Reread my posts.
It only takes one to tango now?
I give in, it's all her fault, he didn't do anything to create the situation and anyone who gets agitated and tries to assert their rights should be assaulted by a police officer.
If she had acted reasonable and not pushed the envelope, all would likely be well right now (she may have even gotten a warning where she could have said, "Thank you!"). Because she was extremely agitated and belligerent, she opened the door for the officer to respond with heightened behaviour as well.
Once the situation escalated, it is unreasonable to expect the police officer to back down. It was incumbent upon the woman to back off instead of intensifying the brutal behaviour. She should have thought to herself, "Oh shit. Okay whoa. I'm sorry officer. I understand you are just doing your job. I'm out of line." But no... she continued to be increasingly outrageous.
That is not the typical behaviour of someone being pulled over. It is not out of the realm of possibilities that the cop may have developed some suspicions about the woman that he might have wanted to investigate as well (drug or alcohol use). He asked her, "Are you okay?" And later he also stated, "You seem really agitated."
Would it be good police work if a cop began to get suspicious about someone, but then simply shrugged it off?
We can agree that the cop could have handled it differently, but he didn't. He's not abusive for handling it the way he did though. The only abusive one in that video was the woman who became belligerent and rude over a simple traffic violation.
But that actually has nothing to do with the real problem here. I'm much more concerned about her death in police custody.
The officer (1) needed to answer her lawful question about why she was being arrested, and (2) needed to have justification to proceed to physically remove her from the car. Even if an individual ignores, for instance, a police order to exit a vehicle the police do not have blanket authority to proceed to physical force, or "seizure". Force is only justified if it is not excessive and if there is a reason such as public safety, neither of which applied. Because he did neither of those, legal scholars and even his department have agreed that he exceeded his lawful authority.
In the 10 times (I have a need for speed) that I've been pulled over in my life, I've always pulled over, kept my hands on the steering wheel, and waited until the cop arrived before I got into the glove compartment for vehicle registration. That is what I was taught in drivers' education and I still do it. I talk to the officer with respect. I get a ticket most times, but it is a fairly painless 20 minutes.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
And btw, it's not like the woman flipped out. She was obviously surprised and confused and mad about how the cop was treating her, and I don't blame her for any of those emotions. It was dumb of her to talk back, but it's not like she hit him or started screaming, or anything like that. She was slightly belligerent when a cop was treating her unfairly. It's not that bad IMO, and it also has nothing to do with her showing up dead in a cell three days later (when everyone she knows says she wasn't suicidal in any way, shape, or form).
If a cop wants to strip search your vehicle after a traffic stop he can do it wether you agree or not.The minute she broke the law with the very minor lane change infraction she was in the eyes of the law,breaking the law.The officer has most the cards here.Shutting your trap and complying is your best bet.
During my time in the fire department, I have seen over 30 people get asked to step out of their car. One man refused. Turns out, he had about 9 pounds of weed in his trunk. I don't know why this woman would refuse other than simply to be a argumentative. It makes no sense to me.