Knowing what you know now would you still support the withdrawal of troops from Iraq

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  • BS44325 said:

    Please tell us what your sand table troop movements told you the appropriate troop levels were or are to pacify Iraq. Please?

    I'm sorry but I asked you a question first. Where did you come up with the number 170,000?
    You have repeatedly advocated for a surge level troop presence in Iraq. A number approximately north of 150,000. Now, you tell me what the surge level was. Talk about moving goal posts?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    And Iraq is a billion times worse since 2003.

    Yes that's what happens when you invade a country and then withdraw with no care for what happens after.
    Thank god you weren't secretary of war in 1972. We'd still be in Vietnam taking casualties.
    And thank god Iran isn't being more belligerent

    https://news.usni.org/2016/10/15/cno-richardson-uss-mason-attacked-cruise-missiles-off-yemen

    Iranian-backed Houthi rebels continue to fire on US ships. Most people consider attacks on the Navy an act of war. I wonder where these rebels got those missles. Just a little Iranian seed money via the US government.
    Perhaps, as a concerned citizen of Canada, you could call Ted Cruz and Paul Ryan and ask them to ask for a declaration of war. Seeing that you neocons want to do things by the constitution and all.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124

    BS44325 said:

    Please tell us what your sand table troop movements told you the appropriate troop levels were or are to pacify Iraq. Please?

    I'm sorry but I asked you a question first. Where did you come up with the number 170,000?
    You have repeatedly advocated for a surge level troop presence in Iraq. A number approximately north of 150,000. Now, you tell me what the surge level was. Talk about moving goal posts?
    See this is where your inattention to detail gets you into trouble. You mash up a whole bunch of conversations and topics without being able to maintain focus. You would not do well in one of my classes but on this point I am willing to slow down and make everyone in class wait for you to catch up.

    1) At the time of the surge there was about 110,000 or so troops in Iraq
    2) In the years prior to withdrawal those numbers came down to about 45-50000 troops
    3) At the time of withdrawal WHICH IS WHAT THIS GOSH DARN THREAD IS ABOUT the generals only wanted about 28000 troops to remain to maintain the peace. This is a number less then what is in South Korea today. Obama refused that number and considered maybe allowing 10000 to stay but decided against that during the SOFA fiasco.

    So nobody, no general, not me ever said a troop presence of 170000 was necessary to preserve the peace. A much "lighter footprint" of somewhere between 10000 - 28000 was argued for. Do you get that? Do you? Please say you do? If you cannot get the argument then you will have to go back and take reading comprehension 101 prior to enrolling in this course again. The other students cannot continue to wait for you to figure this material out.

    Now the second point which I hope doesn't confuse you but of course will...In terms of the surge force I argued for that was in reference to post-collapse Iraq more specifically around the time of when the Jordanian pilot was burned in January 2015. Now that death occured in Syria but it generated enough outrage that if the administration wanted to reengage it could have been an appropriate time. There was something still to salvage at that point. That window of opportunity was missed however and things are now so far gone that I am not even sure if there is any decent result left to salvage. In addition other powers such as Russia, Iran and Turkey are so entrenched that to reengage at this moment with a surge may in fact be an impossibility. The facts on the ground have changed. What hasn't change though is the argument that a small residual force could have prevented the horror that we see today.

    The end.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    And Iraq is a billion times worse since 2003.

    Yes that's what happens when you invade a country and then withdraw with no care for what happens after.
    Thank god you weren't secretary of war in 1972. We'd still be in Vietnam taking casualties.
    And thank god Iran isn't being more belligerent

    https://news.usni.org/2016/10/15/cno-richardson-uss-mason-attacked-cruise-missiles-off-yemen

    Iranian-backed Houthi rebels continue to fire on US ships. Most people consider attacks on the Navy an act of war. I wonder where these rebels got those missles. Just a little Iranian seed money via the US government.
    Perhaps, as a concerned citizen of Canada, you could call Ted Cruz and Paul Ryan and ask them to ask for a declaration of war. Seeing that you neocons want to do things by the constitution and all.
    At this point I'll probably just ask them to stop Obama from giving Iran all that cash.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    edited October 2016
    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    And Iraq is a billion times worse since 2003.

    Yes that's what happens when you invade a country and then withdraw with no care for what happens after.
    Thank god you weren't secretary of war in 1972. We'd still be in Vietnam taking casualties.
    And thank god Iran isn't being more belligerent

    https://news.usni.org/2016/10/15/cno-richardson-uss-mason-attacked-cruise-missiles-off-yemen

    Iranian-backed Houthi rebels continue to fire on US ships. Most people consider attacks on the Navy an act of war. I wonder where these rebels got those missles. Just a little Iranian seed money via the US government.
    Perhaps, as a concerned citizen of Canada, you could call Ted Cruz and Paul Ryan and ask them to ask for a declaration of war. Seeing that you neocons want to do things by the constitution and all.
    At this point I'll probably just ask them to stop Obama from giving Iran all that cash.
    Actually this made me realize what a track record this administration now has:

    1) They lose track of guns in the Fast and Furious scandal which end up being used against US border agents
    2) They lose track of weapons being sent to rebels in syria which come back in the hands of ISIS to Libya and result in the loss of US servicemen there
    3) They give money back to Iran which ends up backstopping Houthi rebels that like to fire missiles at US sailors

    It's all working!
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,016
    Tomorrow I start digging into Ryszard Kapuściński's book Shah of Shahs. Will be good to get some historical perspective on the middle east that does not come from a rock and roll fan site, haha!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    brianlux said:

    Tomorrow I start digging into Ryszard Kapuściński's book Shah of Shahs. Will be good to get some historical perspective on the middle east that does not come from a rock and roll fan site, haha!

    The Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright is a must read for perspective on al qaeda/ISIS etc and Circle in the Sand: Why We Went Back to Iraq by Christian Alfonsi is also pretty good on the subject of Iraq itself.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,016
    edited October 2016
    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    Tomorrow I start digging into Ryszard Kapuściński's book Shah of Shahs. Will be good to get some historical perspective on the middle east that does not come from a rock and roll fan site, haha!

    The Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright is a must read for perspective on al qaeda/ISIS etc and Circle in the Sand: Why We Went Back to Iraq by Christian Alfonsi is also pretty good on the subject of Iraq itself.
    Don't recall seeing those but will watch for them. Thanks BS.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    Please tell us what your sand table troop movements told you the appropriate troop levels were or are to pacify Iraq. Please?

    I'm sorry but I asked you a question first. Where did you come up with the number 170,000?
    You have repeatedly advocated for a surge level troop presence in Iraq. A number approximately north of 150,000. Now, you tell me what the surge level was. Talk about moving goal posts?
    See this is where your inattention to detail gets you into trouble. You mash up a whole bunch of conversations and topics without being able to maintain focus. You would not do well in one of my classes but on this point I am willing to slow down and make everyone in class wait for you to catch up.

    1) At the time of the surge there was about 110,000 or so troops in Iraq
    2) In the years prior to withdrawal those numbers came down to about 45-50000 troops
    3) At the time of withdrawal WHICH IS WHAT THIS GOSH DARN THREAD IS ABOUT the generals only wanted about 28000 troops to remain to maintain the peace. This is a number less then what is in South Korea today. Obama refused that number and considered maybe allowing 10000 to stay but decided against that during the SOFA fiasco.

    So nobody, no general, not me ever said a troop presence of 170000 was necessary to preserve the peace. A much "lighter footprint" of somewhere between 10000 - 28000 was argued for. Do you get that? Do you? Please say you do? If you cannot get the argument then you will have to go back and take reading comprehension 101 prior to enrolling in this course again. The other students cannot continue to wait for you to figure this material out.

    Now the second point which I hope doesn't confuse you but of course will...In terms of the surge force I argued for that was in reference to post-collapse Iraq more specifically around the time of when the Jordanian pilot was burned in January 2015. Now that death occured in Syria but it generated enough outrage that if the administration wanted to reengage it could have been an appropriate time. There was something still to salvage at that point. That window of opportunity was missed however and things are now so far gone that I am not even sure if there is any decent result left to salvage. In addition other powers such as Russia, Iran and Turkey are so entrenched that to reengage at this moment with a surge may in fact be an impossibility. The facts on the ground have changed. What hasn't change though is the argument that a small residual force could have prevented the horror that we see today.

    The end.
    Got a link? A source? You making shit up again? Revising history to justify your misadventure? What date does your surge begin? What source are you relying upon for your troop count? And why are you yelling? If you repeat it enough, or scream it, it doesn't make it true.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • The horror today is nothing like what was unleashed in 2003. How do you sleep at night?
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  • And I would never take a class from you. Ever.
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  • How's Yemen working out for you? You own that funeral bombing, right? You admit to that, right?
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  • The most naive rationale for expanding a misadventurous war? One Jordanian pilot? That's your argument? That was the act that would have turned the tide? You're desperate. And lack an understanding of the region. Your western arrogance rearing its ugly head again. Does 1953 mean anything to you? Let me guess? Reagan and Beruit was right?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • "A number less than what is in South Korea." After 60 fucking years! You're laughable. Since you're comparing South Korea to Iraq, what was the US troop commitment to South Korea in an equivelant passage of time? And what "generals?"
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    So many here were against Iraq war, but are silent on actions in Syria and Libya.


    Where'd you go antiwar left?
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,519
    BS44325 said:
    Who started this mess again I forget & since you're teaching history I need a refresher on this point ? Thanks
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124

    BS44325 said:
    Who started this mess again I forget & since you're teaching history I need a refresher on this point ? Thanks
    This current mess or the initial mess?
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,519
    edited October 2016
    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:
    Who started this mess again I forget & since you're teaching history I need a refresher on this point ? Thanks
    This current mess or the initial mess?
    C'mon you're the teacher you know exactly what I'm asking you ...

    It's easy just write it out ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:
    Who started this mess again I forget & since you're teaching history I need a refresher on this point ? Thanks
    This current mess or the initial mess?
    C'mon you're the teacher you know exactly what I'm asking you ...

    It's easy just write it out ...
    Well there were two separate "messes". These are facts you choose not to accept. The first "mess" which begun under George W Bush was predominantly solved as per Joe Biden.

    https://youtu.be/tLteUGkvpOc

    Mosul was not held by ISIS when US forces left. The second "mess" where an attempted clean up in under way now is due to the Obama withdrawal against the recommendations of pretty much everybody.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/10/21/president-obama-has-ended-war-iraq

    It's easy but I just wrote it out for you anyway.

  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    Well it didn't help that the US created and armed ISIS to fight Assad in Syria. The US needs the bogeyman to have a sound, strong, secure foreign policy.
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,519
    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:
    Who started this mess again I forget & since you're teaching history I need a refresher on this point ? Thanks
    This current mess or the initial mess?
    C'mon you're the teacher you know exactly what I'm asking you ...

    It's easy just write it out ...
    Well there were two separate "messes". These are facts you choose not to accept. The first "mess" which begun under George W Bush was predominantly solved as per Joe Biden.

    https://youtu.be/tLteUGkvpOc

    Mosul was not held by ISIS when US forces left. The second "mess" where an attempted clean up in under way now is due to the Obama withdrawal against the recommendations of pretty much everybody.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/10/21/president-obama-has-ended-war-iraq

    It's easy but I just wrote it out for you anyway.

    No no you know damn well Obama just followed the plan that was in place for the withdrawal of troops from Iraq that was set up by the previous administration .
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Jason P said:

    You should never make a decision just so you can claim you followed up on a campaign promise.

    Except it was GWB's decision and signature on the SOFA. See Article 25 in the link below:

    http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf

    Ryan Crocker's signature but the same thing. Give Turd Blossom credit for politicizing the SOFA for the 2012 election. Nothing like taking a nice big shit on America and wiping your ass with Iraq.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:
    Who started this mess again I forget & since you're teaching history I need a refresher on this point ? Thanks
    This current mess or the initial mess?
    C'mon you're the teacher you know exactly what I'm asking you ...

    It's easy just write it out ...
    Well there were two separate "messes". These are facts you choose not to accept. The first "mess" which begun under George W Bush was predominantly solved as per Joe Biden.

    https://youtu.be/tLteUGkvpOc

    Mosul was not held by ISIS when US forces left. The second "mess" where an attempted clean up in under way now is due to the Obama withdrawal against the recommendations of pretty much everybody.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/10/21/president-obama-has-ended-war-iraq

    It's easy but I just wrote it out for you anyway.

    No no you know damn well Obama just followed the plan that was in place for the withdrawal of troops from Iraq that was set up by the previous administration .
    No. That claim has already been awarded a number of pinnochios. See the washington post article and podesta emails linked above. Sorry buddy.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    Hopefully the war will be discussed at the debate tonight because the next President will likely inherit a mess

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/10/19/world/middleeast/mosul-iraq-isis.html
  • BS44325 said:
    Trump said in the debate last night that Mosul will be great. I'm sure you've made an early registration for a long weekend at Trump Tower Mosul.

    Yea, the war your neocon heroes started ain't over but the American footprint is drastically reduced and the Iraqis are taking the lead. Obama should be applauded for that but You neocons won't give him any credit.

    Please let me know when Canada commits as much blood and treasure to Iraq as the US has. Save us the US combat deaths are a sign the war isn't over yet posts. It's like you relish in this shit storm of wasted lives.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • BS44325 said:

    Hopefully the war will be discussed at the debate tonight because the next President will likely inherit a mess

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/10/19/world/middleeast/mosul-iraq-isis.html

    Trumps contribution? Mosul will be great.
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  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124

    BS44325 said:
    Trump said in the debate last night that Mosul will be great. I'm sure you've made an early registration for a long weekend at Trump Tower Mosul.

    Yea, the war your neocon heroes started ain't over but the American footprint is drastically reduced and the Iraqis are taking the lead. Obama should be applauded for that but You neocons won't give him any credit.

    Please let me know when Canada commits as much blood and treasure to Iraq as the US has. Save us the US combat deaths are a sign the war isn't over yet posts. It's like you relish in this shit storm of wasted lives.
    Yes. Keep applauding Obama for the success that now is Iraq. Obama lied. People died.
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