Baltimore

dignin

JimmyV said:

Obama was pitch-perfect on this.

I'm glad we agree on this, he was.

brianlux

dignin said:

Fuckin' Obama is such an "apologist". Backing all those rioters. Doesn't he know they are all just criminal thugs?


^^^^Again, sarcasim

Drowned Out

InHiding80 said:

callen said:

This thread a perfect example of whites living their lucky ass lives and looking down at the poor and weak and getting the superiority bug.

Again you aren't special. You aren't smarter. Your definitely not more aware or enlightened. Your just lucky.

Rather than looking at things and saying hmmm what the FK and why and how to change things you sit behind your keyboards in your safe little white neighborhoods and stroke yourselves

Think of the human condition along with some history of human behavior, and whites as well, and you will not only understand "Baltimore" but maybe think what we can do as humans to prevent situations such as this.

But alas stroking ones insecurities is easier and I expect from observing human behavior that the stroking and stroking each other will continue. Just get your hanky and windex before hand.

And thanks for proving my point about how going to the left of Chomsky is just as bad. Both you and the Fox News crowd are the same coin of ignorace.

Have you ever read any Chomsky? Referring to him as reciprocal to Cheney on the political spectrum is….disingenuous. He is an independent critic of both domestic and foreign policy, with political leanings that are idealist to the point of fantasy. He has been just as harsh in his criticisms of Obama as he was of Bush. Dick Cheney is 100% revolving-door-politician/corporate whore, with political leanings that are undermine democracy, and the power to make it happen.
No fuckin way people who read Chomsky are the reciprocal of those who learn politics via Fox News. Sorry, but if you wanna talk ignorance, that statement leaves you exposed.

dignin said:

Fuckin' Obama is such an "apologist". Backing all those rioters. Doesn't he know they are all just criminal thugs?


^^^^Again, sarcasim

Funny. This thread is annoying. Same shit as sooooo many other similar threads, with the usual suspects on either side of the aisle. Same accusations, same counter arguments. Yawn.
Everyone knows which side I fall on, so I won't say any more.
Except that civil disobedience needs to be organized to be effective. Shut down the whole fuckin city in protest, with stated goals, and I'd support it. But not like this.

JimmyV

To each their own.

Drowned Out

Or to each a zone?

badbrains

Drowned Out said:

InHiding80 said:

callen said:

This thread a perfect example of whites living their lucky ass lives and looking down at the poor and weak and getting the superiority bug.

Again you aren't special. You aren't smarter. Your definitely not more aware or enlightened. Your just lucky.

Rather than looking at things and saying hmmm what the FK and why and how to change things you sit behind your keyboards in your safe little white neighborhoods and stroke yourselves

Think of the human condition along with some history of human behavior, and whites as well, and you will not only understand "Baltimore" but maybe think what we can do as humans to prevent situations such as this.

But alas stroking ones insecurities is easier and I expect from observing human behavior that the stroking and stroking each other will continue. Just get your hanky and windex before hand.

And thanks for proving my point about how going to the left of Chomsky is just as bad. Both you and the Fox News crowd are the same coin of ignorace.

Have you ever read any Chomsky? Referring to him as reciprocal to Cheney on the political spectrum is….disingenuous. He is an independent critic of both domestic and foreign policy, with political leanings that are idealist to the point of fantasy. He has been just as harsh in his criticisms of Obama as he was of Bush. Dick Cheney is 100% revolving-door-politician/corporate whore, with political leanings that are undermine democracy, and the power to make it happen.
No fuckin way people who read Chomsky are the reciprocal of those who learn politics via Fox News. Sorry, but if you wanna talk ignorance, that statement leaves you exposed.

dignin said:

Fuckin' Obama is such an "apologist". Backing all those rioters. Doesn't he know they are all just criminal thugs?


^^^^Again, sarcasim

Funny. This thread is annoying. Same shit as sooooo many other similar threads, with the usual suspects on either side of the aisle. Same accusations, same counter arguments. Yawn.
Everyone knows which side I fall on, so I won't say any more.
Except that civil disobedience needs to be organized to be effective. Shut down the whole fuckin city in protest, with stated goals, and I'd support it. But not like this.

Who's side is winning? And on a diff topic, what you guys trading us for talbot Kyle? Hahaha

hedonist

badbrains said:

Who's side is winning? And on a diff topic, what you guys trading us for talbot Kyle? Hahaha

Not about winning or sides, BB. More - to me - about trying to come together.

The divide is getting wider for some, unfortunately.

Hope you dig that carne asada while in my fair (?) state!

brianlux

Drowned Out said:

InHiding80 said:

callen said:

This thread a perfect example of whites living their lucky ass lives and looking down at the poor and weak and getting the superiority bug.

Again you aren't special. You aren't smarter. Your definitely not more aware or enlightened. Your just lucky.

Rather than looking at things and saying hmmm what the FK and why and how to change things you sit behind your keyboards in your safe little white neighborhoods and stroke yourselves

Think of the human condition along with some history of human behavior, and whites as well, and you will not only understand "Baltimore" but maybe think what we can do as humans to prevent situations such as this.

But alas stroking ones insecurities is easier and I expect from observing human behavior that the stroking and stroking each other will continue. Just get your hanky and windex before hand.

And thanks for proving my point about how going to the left of Chomsky is just as bad. Both you and the Fox News crowd are the same coin of ignorace.

Have you ever read any Chomsky? Referring to him as reciprocal to Cheney on the political spectrum is….disingenuous. He is an independent critic of both domestic and foreign policy, with political leanings that are idealist to the point of fantasy. He has been just as harsh in his criticisms of Obama as he was of Bush. Dick Cheney is 100% revolving-door-politician/corporate whore, with political leanings that are undermine democracy, and the power to make it happen.
No fuckin way people who read Chomsky are the reciprocal of those who learn politics via Fox News. Sorry, but if you wanna talk ignorance, that statement leaves you exposed.

dignin said:

Fuckin' Obama is such an "apologist". Backing all those rioters. Doesn't he know they are all just criminal thugs?


^^^^Again, sarcasim

Funny. This thread is annoying. Same shit as sooooo many other similar threads, with the usual suspects on either side of the aisle. Same accusations, same counter arguments. Yawn.
Everyone knows which side I fall on, so I won't say any more.
Except that civil disobedience needs to be organized to be effective. Shut down the whole fuckin city in protest, with stated goals, and I'd support it. But not like this.

Best idea I've heard yet. I would add to that the idea that you would need strong leadership and people on both sides willing to negotiate. I'm sorry to keep going back to the same example, but those were the best features of the Pine Ridge/ Wounded Knee siege in 1973 and the reason it was at least partially successful. Today's riots bring on the attention but with few if any results.

hedonist

Shut down a whole city? Keep power out, fires burning without communication about how to put them out, idiots doing their thing despite organization because assholes are always around, 911 service disabled for those who legitimately need it, hospitals unable to keep their patients safe, help an accident victim, and on.

Doesn't seem like a good idea, unless I'm missing something.

Drowned Out

badbrains said:

Drowned Out said:

InHiding80 said:

callen said:

This thread a perfect example of whites living their lucky ass lives and looking down at the poor and weak and getting the superiority bug.

Again you aren't special. You aren't smarter. Your definitely not more aware or enlightened. Your just lucky.

Rather than looking at things and saying hmmm what the FK and why and how to change things you sit behind your keyboards in your safe little white neighborhoods and stroke yourselves

Think of the human condition along with some history of human behavior, and whites as well, and you will not only understand "Baltimore" but maybe think what we can do as humans to prevent situations such as this.

But alas stroking ones insecurities is easier and I expect from observing human behavior that the stroking and stroking each other will continue. Just get your hanky and windex before hand.

And thanks for proving my point about how going to the left of Chomsky is just as bad. Both you and the Fox News crowd are the same coin of ignorace.

Have you ever read any Chomsky? Referring to him as reciprocal to Cheney on the political spectrum is….disingenuous. He is an independent critic of both domestic and foreign policy, with political leanings that are idealist to the point of fantasy. He has been just as harsh in his criticisms of Obama as he was of Bush. Dick Cheney is 100% revolving-door-politician/corporate whore, with political leanings that are undermine democracy, and the power to make it happen.
No fuckin way people who read Chomsky are the reciprocal of those who learn politics via Fox News. Sorry, but if you wanna talk ignorance, that statement leaves you exposed.

dignin said:

Fuckin' Obama is such an "apologist". Backing all those rioters. Doesn't he know they are all just criminal thugs?


^^^^Again, sarcasim

Funny. This thread is annoying. Same shit as sooooo many other similar threads, with the usual suspects on either side of the aisle. Same accusations, same counter arguments. Yawn.
Everyone knows which side I fall on, so I won't say any more.
Except that civil disobedience needs to be organized to be effective. Shut down the whole fuckin city in protest, with stated goals, and I'd support it. But not like this.

Who's side is winning? And on a diff topic, what you guys trading us for talbot Kyle? Hahaha

We keep going with guys who are supposedly ready to take the reigns and it never works out. We better sign a bona fide #1 or there will be rio....never mind.
I'm thinking we take a run at Ward.


I shouldn't have used the word 'sides', but it's not far off. Every thread here that deals with any sort of police action, or is justice related, sees the same people taking the same positions, regardless of the story. I just don't see any progress being made on these topics, and I just spent four days in Scottsdale obliterating my brain, so I'm gonna avoid getting into it with anyone on this one (Only posted because of the Chomsky aside).

brianlux

hedonist said:

Shut down a whole city? Keep power out, fires burning without communication about how to put them out, idiots doing their thing despite organization because assholes are always around, 911 service disabled for those who legitimately need it, hospitals unable to keep their patients safe, help an accident victim, and on.

Doesn't seem like a good idea, unless I'm missing something.

Good point- would not want essential services shut down- but that would not likely happen anyway. But some form of disruption that is well planned, minimize danger and maximize results and would get attention would be the goal. Something like this would not work like a few lines tossed off on a forum somewhere. It would probably not even happen. Today it would have to be more symbolic than anything.

Ideas?

hedonist

brianlux said:

hedonist said:

Shut down a whole city? Keep power out, fires burning without communication about how to put them out, idiots doing their thing despite organization because assholes are always around, 911 service disabled for those who legitimately need it, hospitals unable to keep their patients safe, help an accident victim, and on.

Doesn't seem like a good idea, unless I'm missing something.

Good point- would not want essential services shut down- but that would not likely happen anyway. But some form of disruption that is well planned, minimize danger and maximize results and would get attention would be the goal. Something like this would not work like a few lines tossed off on a forum somewhere. It would probably not even happen. Today it would have to be more symbolic than anything.

Ideas?

I'm not sure what some form of disruption would minimize danger? Not likely? Shit, parts of Turkey were recently fucked with by Iran.

Maybe it should be a Twitter-palooza, if we're talking about attention.

Me, I have no idea and at this point, my brain is cool with setting that supposed goal aside.

Drowned Out

hedonist said:

Shut down a whole city? Keep power out, fires burning without communication about how to put them out, idiots doing their thing despite organization because assholes are always around, 911 service disabled for those who legitimately need it, hospitals unable to keep their patients safe, help an accident victim, and on.

Doesn't seem like a good idea, unless I'm missing something.

You're missing clarification...which you could have asked for before building your scenario from my words. but then, I did say 'not like this'. Which would mean I don't support destruction, looting, and arson. And of course I'd want essential services running. I'll be sure to post my entire revolutionary plan and manifesto next time

brianlux

hedonist said:

brianlux said:

hedonist said:

Shut down a whole city? Keep power out, fires burning without communication about how to put them out, idiots doing their thing despite organization because assholes are always around, 911 service disabled for those who legitimately need it, hospitals unable to keep their patients safe, help an accident victim, and on.

Doesn't seem like a good idea, unless I'm missing something.

Good point- would not want essential services shut down- but that would not likely happen anyway. But some form of disruption that is well planned, minimize danger and maximize results and would get attention would be the goal. Something like this would not work like a few lines tossed off on a forum somewhere. It would probably not even happen. Today it would have to be more symbolic than anything.

Ideas?

I'm not sure what some form of disruption would minimize danger? Not likely? Shit, parts of Turkey were recently fucked with by Iran.

Maybe it should be a Twitter-palooza, if we're talking about attention.

Me, I have no idea and at this point, my brain is cool with setting that supposed goal aside.

Not sure how that would work- I have to think about this one. Two things I can say for sure offhand- I would not find a violent response preferable (peaceful, sensible and effective is far better) and, for poor people living in big cities, being racially profiled and brutalized, I'm guessing pretty much every day is either physically or psychically dangerous.

Drowned Out

hedonist said:

brianlux said:

hedonist said:

Shut down a whole city? Keep power out, fires burning without communication about how to put them out, idiots doing their thing despite organization because assholes are always around, 911 service disabled for those who legitimately need it, hospitals unable to keep their patients safe, help an accident victim, and on.

Doesn't seem like a good idea, unless I'm missing something.

Good point- would not want essential services shut down- but that would not likely happen anyway. But some form of disruption that is well planned, minimize danger and maximize results and would get attention would be the goal. Something like this would not work like a few lines tossed off on a forum somewhere. It would probably not even happen. Today it would have to be more symbolic than anything.

Ideas?

I'm not sure what some form of disruption would minimize danger? Not likely? Shit, parts of Turkey were recently fucked with by Iran.

Maybe it should be a Twitter-palooza, if we're talking about attention.

Me, I have no idea and at this point, my brain is cool with setting that supposed goal aside.

So stick with the status quo?
The U.S. Needs a good old fashioned general strike. But then, unemployment is high enough and organized labour thought of lowly enough, that scabs would gladly fill the positions.

Halifax2TheMax

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

josevolution said:

rr165892 said:

backseatLover12 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

backseatLover12 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

I did respond to Brian post. I guess since it isn't your view point, it doesn't count. But you're correct, it is a race issue. But my question is why the black youth decided to vandalize, steal, assault police, and commit arson rather than peacefully protest.

If you bothered to care to learn about human behavior from the perspective of a black youth, living in inner-city neighborhoods, constantly at odds with the police with a bad reputation for brutality, poor socio-economic class, you'd maybe comprehend life is so very different for them. But you'd rather classify those of us that can maybe understand that life is different for them, as "apologists" and that we excuse them for their actions. Which is completely false. My question to you, is why there is such a huge problem with police and minorities in the first place.

I've haven't once called you or anyone else an apologist. I'm also not sure why you think I don't understand race relations. I do understand why the black community is upset with the lack of explanation from the police. Probably better than you do. You have no clue what my background is to make such an absurd assumption.

No matter what the lack of explanation is, it doesn't excuse the thug behavior exhibited by the black youth of Baltimore. Period.

Because that's all you're willing to focus on. "Thug behavior" and not Police behavior.

Again, My question to you, is why there is such a huge problem with police and minorities in the first place.

BSL,have you ever heard the term"Comply and Complain"?

I don't know where it started,but it basically is saying "Hey,don't run,comply with the officers requests and if anything is not kosher you will still be alive to complain or file a complaint about how you were treated"
I heard this today and I makes all of this seem so simple.All the recent cases of death that have been publicized have had suspects who have resisted or ran.I know the kid in the cop car was a different story,but you get what I'm saying right?

Well thats good & dandy but its to late for that minorities have lost all trust in the police force , its hard for us the lucky one's to understand this but it's true believe me i work with alot of black folks and they all say the same thing do not trust the police it's gonna take a monumental effort from both parties to come together on this problem in this country .....

"Its to late for that"? Are you kidding me Jose? "And All minorities have lost all trust". Please.

I have plenty of minority friends.A lot of them would have liked a fire hose to be directed at the looters yesterday. Because they are not criminals or they don't put themselves in a position to be at the receiving end of that kind of harassment.Are there isolated incidents of rascism? Of course.Are there bad cops yes there is.
But I bet you can't even count the amount of white cops who risk there life every day to save a minority in trouble.Or Black cops saving a white kid.
This new movement throwing the police under the bus because of the actions of a few is assinine.

I saw a plane with a banner flying over a festival this weekend that said "Always film the police"Really wtf is wrong this this?

No let's just let them continue to create victims daily with impunity...after all, it's only a few victims in the grand scheme of things, it won't happen to me so what do I care?

Courts are witnessed, most government dealings, legal procedings, major business deals, hell, you can't even buy a $200 jjunkercar without a notary witness...but lets let the folks who carry guns and have authority to kill do their work in the dark. Makes a lot of sense. Not.

Point being you can't just throw out all the good 99.9 percent of police do for the .01 percent of bad seeds.You know that Gambsy.And if we are keeping it real,almost every case we have debated did indeed have a victim who was breaking the law in one way or another(not the kid in the park).Maybe a good start to creating a more just system should start with not commiting a crime in the first place?Pretty sure that will eliminate a lot of it(not all granted).

It's not throwing out the good, it's holding the bad accountable for their actions. Rioters have personal responsibility to be accountable but police dont?

Rekia Boyd, Tamir Rice, John Crawford. All 3 black people killed by police without a crime committed, without resisting arrest, in the last year or so. Only 1 indictment, no convictions. There are more out there that we haven't heard of, you can be sure of that.

Eric Garner sold self-rolled cigarettes and didn't want to be bullied anymore, killed by cops, no indictment.

You forgot the black couple in either Cincy, Cleveland or Columbus, Ohio who were driving around, minding their own business when the car they were in backfired while passing a cop. He or they mistook the backfire as shots fired and made a panicked radio call. A police chase and over a 100 shots later, they both died in the front seat of the car. No weapons, no drugs.

hedonist

Drowned Out said:

hedonist said:

Shut down a whole city? Keep power out, fires burning without communication about how to put them out, idiots doing their thing despite organization because assholes are always around, 911 service disabled for those who legitimately need it, hospitals unable to keep their patients safe, help an accident victim, and on.

Doesn't seem like a good idea, unless I'm missing something.

You're missing clarification...which you could have asked for before building your scenario from my words. but then, I did say 'not like this'. Which would mean I don't support destruction, looting, and arson. And of course I'd want essential services running. I'll be sure to post my entire revolutionary plan and manifesto next time

Drowned, I went by what you said - shut down the whole city. That has ramifications in itself, and seemed clear to me through your words.

And to the post just before this, NO. Perhaps I've been making as many assumptions or mis-speakings as others here. Will step up to it, if founded.

Feels like an impasse, so I'm taking my toys and stomping home for the time being.

I shall return later on with a Whoopie Cushion and we'll all have a good hearty laugh.



Mods - can this quoting shit please be fixed or at least let us know it's being worked on? Thanks.

muskydan

Hope and Change has involved a lot more rioting and looting than I expected

badbrains

muskydan said:

Hope and Change has involved a lot more rioting and looting than I expected

No shit? Really? Nah, you're just used to seeing the rioting done in the streets of bagdad and other brown people countries when your buddy georgie was in office. You see, your Not used to seeing the rioting at home.

Wma31394

Glad to see the streets were quiet last night and the cops didn't have to start "busting heads"..