Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Lerxst I think the treatment of the Palestinians by the Israelis is terrorism and has been going on for far too long. I am not surprised that some people are getting fed up enough to mount more successful insurgencies. Is it great that this will lead to more and further bloodshed? No.
As far as comparing this to Natives or saying that all land is occupied, that is hogwash. We know better at this point, arguably we did back then as well. However, just because the US did it in the past doesn't make it right for Israel to do now.
Hey we are gonna force you out of your land, and when you inevitably fight back we are going to take more of your land with our superior fire power in the name of security, and when you fight back again we will call you terrorists etc... What a fucked up carousel.
Israel seized land because of constant invasion from every direction after the Nakba in 1948.
Really 1948? wow. I guess the land was never Israeli before 1948? Or Mick will come in soon and explain what happened four thousand years ago never really happened. Thats three thousand and eight hundred years before the US seized its land. But according to that comment, the US gets a free pass, Australia gets a free pass, Canada gets a free pass , everyone gets a free pass, except Israel. Wonder why. Wonder what makes Israel so different.
We’ve argued this before, except now, Iran has started a war. They are not interested in peace, and if the Dems start talking like this, it probably will get trump elected.
palestine has always been supportive of ethnic cleansing of israelis and never been interested in peace. Today is obviously Iran destroying the Saudi peace talks. Any attempt to deny that is a joke.
Before 1948 the land was Mandatory Palestine and part of the Great Britain's colonial empire. Now I'm unclear where the US and Australia or Canada for that matter get a free pass. I think we can all agree that what was done in the past should not ever be repeated, but we have been and are seeing it repeated in Palestine. Israel telling Palestinians to leave so they won't be targeted by the retaliation well where are they supposed to go?, certainly not to the homes of their ancestors, or even living dependents if they don't want to be slaughtered. People literally had homes and land taken from them for over 50 years and are expected to be docile.
As for your earlier myth about natives deciding to peacefully coexist with European conquerers, I'm pretty sure Custer and thousands of others that fell to native resistance would beg to differ. Or was Native American resistance just terrorism and a wish for ethic cleansing in your mind? Coexisting only happened once military superiority and the white mans boundless cruelty were well established.
How many unarmed Palestinians have been killed trying to return home? But sure it all must be anti-semitism as you are seemingly trying to infer. Anytime something like this happens it is wrong and no one gets a pass. The founding fathers gave themselves a pass, GB gave Australia a pass after starting a penal colony on aboriginal land, but that don't mean shit if the natives never co signed, just a bunch of legalese.
No one gets a pass. America has an original sin and it isn't slavery. If you can go through life and think this is A ok because the world is just one occupied territory, well that's sad for you. Seeing this continually unfold in real time over my whole life as long as it has is sad.
Israel just keeps penning in the Palestinians and striking with a harder and harder fist after nearly decimating an entire culture.
Wrong is wrong. But please tell me how America and Australia and Canada get a pass and why it's ok to just continue this type of shit in Israel or anywhere else for that matter because previous generations of wealthy white men got away with it.
I'm glad I don't view history through a one way street.
No culture has been decimated or cleaned more than that of the people of Israel. It’s the height of absurdity to suggest otherwise. Had hitter won, these people would have been wiped from the planet. And hitler followed thousands of years or Israelis being forcibly displaced from this very land. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_captivity. That’s one page of many. The links above are like starting a thousand chapter book on chapter 950.
WWII was the last straw of this four thousand year old story, that’s why the UN put together its Partition Plan, which was met immediately with violence from the Arab nations. No bargaining table no negotiations. That’s how the Arabs have handled this complex process since their “beginning” which is really chapter 950. The Arabs start wars, and don’t like how they end.
Look at what happened in WWII and how the arab states responded to these people cleansed by hitler. That violence is their legacy. They stand for hatred and violence, decade after decade, right from the ashes of Hitlers war.
Regarding Canada, we had a recent topic here, the phrase is literally First Nations, plural , and that doesn’t apply to the Canadian immigrants from Europe. There were other peoples living there who were violently displaced. Australia also has issues with its indigenous populations.
Israel occupies key strategic lands in the West Bank because these lands were used to attack Israeli civilians , including women and children, and were seized when Israel was attacked in the 1967 war. The US, Canada, Australia and many other countries get to keep land won after conflict to try to secure peace , yet Israel does not?
Israel occupies other lands in the West Bank that was theirs thousands of years ago. It’s Sunday, you are free to go to church now in multiple religions and read about this in the Bible.
Israel has a list of peace deals with Arab nations. Todays war is about Iran not liking the Saudi talks and destroying the peace process. Go ahead and support Iran.
Is anyone suggesting otherwise?
Second bolded. Why didn't the UN give Germany to the Israelis, It seems to me like it would have been much less destabilizing.
I understand that Palestine was Israels a thousand years ago, but when the partition happened it was a majority Palestinian state and villages and mosques were decimated to repurpose the land for the Israelis. Also Palestinians had been living there for a thousand years as well. It's not like this was some peaceful thing where the UN came in and said here are the new borders and managed everyones previous property rights etc. It was a disaster that has continued to present day.
I also understand that there I likely Iranian intervention behind the scenes here, but if I was Palestinian I would be looking anywhere I could for help if it meant finally not living in an open air prison.
All in it is a crap situation for all involved. It isn't realistic to expect the Palestinians to not try to take back their family homes and lands, and it isn't realistic to expect Israelis to just wait for the next rocket to drop. It's a complex situation and I don't think either side is in the right.
Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,746
Lerxst I think the treatment of the Palestinians by the Israelis is terrorism and has been going on for far too long. I am not surprised that some people are getting fed up enough to mount more successful insurgencies. Is it great that this will lead to more and further bloodshed? No.
As far as comparing this to Natives or saying that all land is occupied, that is hogwash. We know better at this point, arguably we did back then as well. However, just because the US did it in the past doesn't make it right for Israel to do now.
Hey we are gonna force you out of your land, and when you inevitably fight back we are going to take more of your land with our superior fire power in the name of security, and when you fight back again we will call you terrorists etc... What a fucked up carousel.
Israel seized land because of constant invasion from every direction after the Nakba in 1948.
Really 1948? wow. I guess the land was never Israeli before 1948? Or Mick will come in soon and explain what happened four thousand years ago never really happened. Thats three thousand and eight hundred years before the US seized its land. But according to that comment, the US gets a free pass, Australia gets a free pass, Canada gets a free pass , everyone gets a free pass, except Israel. Wonder why. Wonder what makes Israel so different.
We’ve argued this before, except now, Iran has started a war. They are not interested in peace, and if the Dems start talking like this, it probably will get trump elected.
palestine has always been supportive of ethnic cleansing of israelis and never been interested in peace. Today is obviously Iran destroying the Saudi peace talks. Any attempt to deny that is a joke.
Before 1948 the land was Mandatory Palestine and part of the Great Britain's colonial empire. Now I'm unclear where the US and Australia or Canada for that matter get a free pass. I think we can all agree that what was done in the past should not ever be repeated, but we have been and are seeing it repeated in Palestine. Israel telling Palestinians to leave so they won't be targeted by the retaliation well where are they supposed to go?, certainly not to the homes of their ancestors, or even living dependents if they don't want to be slaughtered. People literally had homes and land taken from them for over 50 years and are expected to be docile.
As for your earlier myth about natives deciding to peacefully coexist with European conquerers, I'm pretty sure Custer and thousands of others that fell to native resistance would beg to differ. Or was Native American resistance just terrorism and a wish for ethic cleansing in your mind? Coexisting only happened once military superiority and the white mans boundless cruelty were well established.
How many unarmed Palestinians have been killed trying to return home? But sure it all must be anti-semitism as you are seemingly trying to infer. Anytime something like this happens it is wrong and no one gets a pass. The founding fathers gave themselves a pass, GB gave Australia a pass after starting a penal colony on aboriginal land, but that don't mean shit if the natives never co signed, just a bunch of legalese.
No one gets a pass. America has an original sin and it isn't slavery. If you can go through life and think this is A ok because the world is just one occupied territory, well that's sad for you. Seeing this continually unfold in real time over my whole life as long as it has is sad.
Israel just keeps penning in the Palestinians and striking with a harder and harder fist after nearly decimating an entire culture.
Wrong is wrong. But please tell me how America and Australia and Canada get a pass and why it's ok to just continue this type of shit in Israel or anywhere else for that matter because previous generations of wealthy white men got away with it.
I'm glad I don't view history through a one way street.
No culture has been decimated or cleaned more than that of the people of Israel. It’s the height of absurdity to suggest otherwise. Had hitter won, these people would have been wiped from the planet. And hitler followed thousands of years or Israelis being forcibly displaced from this very land. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_captivity. That’s one page of many. The links above are like starting a thousand chapter book on chapter 950.
WWII was the last straw of this four thousand year old story, that’s why the UN put together its Partition Plan, which was met immediately with violence from the Arab nations. No bargaining table no negotiations. That’s how the Arabs have handled this complex process since their “beginning” which is really chapter 950. The Arabs start wars, and don’t like how they end.
Look at what happened in WWII and how the arab states responded to these people cleansed by hitler. That violence is their legacy. They stand for hatred and violence, decade after decade, right from the ashes of Hitlers war.
Regarding Canada, we had a recent topic here, the phrase is literally First Nations, plural , and that doesn’t apply to the Canadian immigrants from Europe. There were other peoples living there who were violently displaced. Australia also has issues with its indigenous populations.
Israel occupies key strategic lands in the West Bank because these lands were used to attack Israeli civilians , including women and children, and were seized when Israel was attacked in the 1967 war. The US, Canada, Australia and many other countries get to keep land won after conflict to try to secure peace , yet Israel does not?
Israel occupies other lands in the West Bank that was theirs thousands of years ago. It’s Sunday, you are free to go to church now in multiple religions and read about this in the Bible.
Israel has a list of peace deals with Arab nations. Todays war is about Iran not liking the Saudi talks and destroying the peace process. Go ahead and support Iran.
Is anyone suggesting otherwise?
Second bolded. Why didn't the UN give Germany to the Israelis, It seems to me like it would have been much less destabilizing.
I understand that Palestine was Israels a thousand years ago, but when the partition happened it was a majority Palestinian state and villages and mosques were decimated to repurpose the land for the Israelis. Also Palestinians had been living there for a thousand years as well. It's not like this was some peaceful thing where the UN came in and said here are the new borders and managed everyones previous property rights etc. It was a disaster that has continued to present day.
I also understand that there I likely Iranian intervention behind the scenes here, but if I was Palestinian I would be looking anywhere I could for help if it meant finally not living in an open air prison.
All in it is a crap situation for all involved. It isn't realistic to expect the Palestinians to not try to take back their family homes and lands, and it isn't realistic to expect Israelis to just wait for the next rocket to drop. It's a complex situation and I don't think either side is in the right.
"All in it is a crap situation for all involved. It isn't realistic to
expect the Palestinians to not try to take back their family homes and
lands, and it isn't realistic to expect Israelis to just wait for the
next rocket to drop. It's a complex situation and I don't think either
side is in the right. "
That's pretty much how I see it. I have to wonder though, if Israel wasn't so adamant about confining Palestinians, would some of them have not become so radicalized that they eventually formed Hamas? In other words, how much of the radicalization of some of the Palestinians was caused by Israel itself? Seems to me that has to be a factor.
But in the bigger picture, it really does seem- like so often is the case- it's bad guy against bad guy with a shit load of people who cannot lead normal lives as they are caught in between this tennis match between high power leaders with weapons.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
“There is today in the Palestinian territory occupied by Israel since
1967 a deeply discriminatory dual legal and political system that
privileges the 700,000 Israeli Jewish settlers living in the 300 illegal
Israeli settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank,” said Michael
Lynk, the UN Special Rapporteur for the situation of human rights in the
Palestinian territory occupied since 1967.
“Living in the same geographic space, but separated by walls,
checkpoints, roads and an entrenched military presence, are more than
three million Palestinians, who are without rights, living under an
oppressive rule of institutional discrimination and without a path to a
genuine Palestinian state that the world has long promised is their
right.
“Another two million Palestinians live in Gaza, described regularly
as an ‘open-air prison’, without adequate access to power, water or
health, with a collapsing economy and with no ability to freely travel
to the rest of Palestine or the outside world.”
The Special Rapporteur said that a political regime which so
intentionally and clearly prioritizes fundamental political, legal and
social rights to one group over another within the same geographic unit
on the basis of one’s racial-national-ethnic identity satisfies the
international legal definition of apartheid.
I think it’s dangerous and offensive to refer to Palestine as occupied, especially when so many here do not understand the brutality of Hamas and their history. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 (yes withdrew) and Hamas seized control in 2006. Yes Hamas won an election, but used brutality to intimidate the Gaza people to vote for them. The US immediately objected because Hamas was widely viewed as a terrorist organization, meaning they target civilians for death, as they did yesterday.
After taking control, Hamas refused to negotiate any attempt at peace , refused to recognize the right of Israel exist, and immediately began attacking Israel. If this were the US and say the Bahamas, would the US allow repeated attacks without taking full control? Israel never occupied Gaza in the manner that is widely viewed as an occupation. They never exercised full control of Gaza after 2005. What they tried to do there is limit social interaction, because since the day Hamas was formed, meeting like that were simple, they involved chants of death to Israel.
If the Israeli failure to defend its borders yesterday brings an end to Netanyahu, great because IMO he is too hardline. I’d love for Israel to be able to negotiate peace, but this is something Hamas and most Palestinians have been against from their inception
What would the US do if they were attacked repeatedly like this?
this is not what happened, but please, continue to make ill informed and stupid posts.
It’s close enough because if this is a drawn out war, and if there is any chit chat on the left in support of Hamas, it will greatly increase trumps chances to become the next president.
It’s true the US didn’t give Iran money, but they allowed Iran more access to their own money. Good luck splicing that point to Americans in the general election next year while the trumpsters show videos of the young women being abducted at gunpoint against their will yesterday on sovereign Israeli soil.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,830
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Lerxst I think the treatment of the Palestinians by the Israelis is terrorism and has been going on for far too long. I am not surprised that some people are getting fed up enough to mount more successful insurgencies. Is it great that this will lead to more and further bloodshed? No.
As far as comparing this to Natives or saying that all land is occupied, that is hogwash. We know better at this point, arguably we did back then as well. However, just because the US did it in the past doesn't make it right for Israel to do now.
Hey we are gonna force you out of your land, and when you inevitably fight back we are going to take more of your land with our superior fire power in the name of security, and when you fight back again we will call you terrorists etc... What a fucked up carousel.
Israel seized land because of constant invasion from every direction after the Nakba in 1948.
Really 1948? wow. I guess the land was never Israeli before 1948? Or Mick will come in soon and explain what happened four thousand years ago never really happened. Thats three thousand and eight hundred years before the US seized its land. But according to that comment, the US gets a free pass, Australia gets a free pass, Canada gets a free pass , everyone gets a free pass, except Israel. Wonder why. Wonder what makes Israel so different.
We’ve argued this before, except now, Iran has started a war. They are not interested in peace, and if the Dems start talking like this, it probably will get trump elected.
palestine has always been supportive of ethnic cleansing of israelis and never been interested in peace. Today is obviously Iran destroying the Saudi peace talks. Any attempt to deny that is a joke.
Before 1948 the land was Mandatory Palestine and part of the Great Britain's colonial empire. Now I'm unclear where the US and Australia or Canada for that matter get a free pass. I think we can all agree that what was done in the past should not ever be repeated, but we have been and are seeing it repeated in Palestine. Israel telling Palestinians to leave so they won't be targeted by the retaliation well where are they supposed to go?, certainly not to the homes of their ancestors, or even living dependents if they don't want to be slaughtered. People literally had homes and land taken from them for over 50 years and are expected to be docile.
As for your earlier myth about natives deciding to peacefully coexist with European conquerers, I'm pretty sure Custer and thousands of others that fell to native resistance would beg to differ. Or was Native American resistance just terrorism and a wish for ethic cleansing in your mind? Coexisting only happened once military superiority and the white mans boundless cruelty were well established.
How many unarmed Palestinians have been killed trying to return home? But sure it all must be anti-semitism as you are seemingly trying to infer. Anytime something like this happens it is wrong and no one gets a pass. The founding fathers gave themselves a pass, GB gave Australia a pass after starting a penal colony on aboriginal land, but that don't mean shit if the natives never co signed, just a bunch of legalese.
No one gets a pass. America has an original sin and it isn't slavery. If you can go through life and think this is A ok because the world is just one occupied territory, well that's sad for you. Seeing this continually unfold in real time over my whole life as long as it has is sad.
Israel just keeps penning in the Palestinians and striking with a harder and harder fist after nearly decimating an entire culture.
Wrong is wrong. But please tell me how America and Australia and Canada get a pass and why it's ok to just continue this type of shit in Israel or anywhere else for that matter because previous generations of wealthy white men got away with it.
I'm glad I don't view history through a one way street.
No culture has been decimated or cleaned more than that of the people of Israel. It’s the height of absurdity to suggest otherwise. Had hitter won, these people would have been wiped from the planet. And hitler followed thousands of years or Israelis being forcibly displaced from this very land. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_captivity. That’s one page of many. The links above are like starting a thousand chapter book on chapter 950.
WWII was the last straw of this four thousand year old story, that’s why the UN put together its Partition Plan, which was met immediately with violence from the Arab nations. No bargaining table no negotiations. That’s how the Arabs have handled this complex process since their “beginning” which is really chapter 950. The Arabs start wars, and don’t like how they end.
Look at what happened in WWII and how the arab states responded to these people cleansed by hitler. That violence is their legacy. They stand for hatred and violence, decade after decade, right from the ashes of Hitlers war.
Regarding Canada, we had a recent topic here, the phrase is literally First Nations, plural , and that doesn’t apply to the Canadian immigrants from Europe. There were other peoples living there who were violently displaced. Australia also has issues with its indigenous populations.
Israel occupies key strategic lands in the West Bank because these lands were used to attack Israeli civilians , including women and children, and were seized when Israel was attacked in the 1967 war. The US, Canada, Australia and many other countries get to keep land won after conflict to try to secure peace , yet Israel does not?
Israel occupies other lands in the West Bank that was theirs thousands of years ago. It’s Sunday, you are free to go to church now in multiple religions and read about this in the Bible.
Israel has a list of peace deals with Arab nations. Todays war is about Iran not liking the Saudi talks and destroying the peace process. Go ahead and support Iran.
Is anyone suggesting otherwise?
Second bolded. Why didn't the UN give Germany to the Israelis, It seems to me like it would have been much less destabilizing.
I understand that Palestine was Israels a thousand years ago, but when the partition happened it was a majority Palestinian state and villages and mosques were decimated to repurpose the land for the Israelis. Also Palestinians had been living there for a thousand years as well. It's not like this was some peaceful thing where the UN came in and said here are the new borders and managed everyones previous property rights etc. It was a disaster that has continued to present day.
I also understand that there I likely Iranian intervention behind the scenes here, but if I was Palestinian I would be looking anywhere I could for help if it meant finally not living in an open air prison.
All in it is a crap situation for all involved. It isn't realistic to expect the Palestinians to not try to take back their family homes and lands, and it isn't realistic to expect Israelis to just wait for the next rocket to drop. It's a complex situation and I don't think either side is in the right.
A lot of your comment here is fair, but there are two huge facts missing.
1. Israel has a proven track record, decades long, of negotiating peace deals with Arab states, including the recent attempt with the Saudis, which is what gave Iran desperation to act now.
2. The people of Palestine never displayed an interest in negotiating peace, as they never even recognized Israel’s right to exist.
as a footnote, had Israelis never been forcefully removed from this land, they would have surely outnumbered Palestinians there in 1948.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,830
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,830
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,830
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,830
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,746
“There is today in the Palestinian territory occupied by Israel since
1967 a deeply discriminatory dual legal and political system that
privileges the 700,000 Israeli Jewish settlers living in the 300 illegal
Israeli settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank,” said Michael
Lynk, the UN Special Rapporteur for the situation of human rights in the
Palestinian territory occupied since 1967.
“Living in the same geographic space, but separated by walls,
checkpoints, roads and an entrenched military presence, are more than
three million Palestinians, who are without rights, living under an
oppressive rule of institutional discrimination and without a path to a
genuine Palestinian state that the world has long promised is their
right.
“Another two million Palestinians live in Gaza, described regularly
as an ‘open-air prison’, without adequate access to power, water or
health, with a collapsing economy and with no ability to freely travel
to the rest of Palestine or the outside world.”
The Special Rapporteur said that a political regime which so
intentionally and clearly prioritizes fundamental political, legal and
social rights to one group over another within the same geographic unit
on the basis of one’s racial-national-ethnic identity satisfies the
international legal definition of apartheid.
I think it’s dangerous and offensive to refer to Palestine as occupied, especially when so many here do not understand the brutality of Hamas and their history. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 (yes withdrew) and Hamas seized control in 2006. Yes Hamas won an election, but used brutality to intimidate the Gaza people to vote for them. The US immediately objected because Hamas was widely viewed as a terrorist organization, meaning they target civilians for death, as they did yesterday.
After taking control, Hamas refused to negotiate any attempt at peace , refused to recognize the right of Israel exist, and immediately began attacking Israel. If this were the US and say the Bahamas, would the US allow repeated attacks without taking full control? Israel never occupied Gaza in the manner that is widely viewed as an occupation. They never exercised full control of Gaza after 2005. What they tried to do there is limit social interaction, because since the day Hamas was formed, meeting like that were simple, they involved chants of death to Israel.
If the Israeli failure to defend its borders yesterday brings an end to Netanyahu, great because IMO he is too hardline. I’d love for Israel to be able to negotiate peace, but this is something Hamas and most Palestinians have been against from their inception
What would the US do if they were attacked repeatedly like this?
If you don't want to call keeping people corralled in a space in a highly restrictive manner, what else would you call it?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting the Hamas. No way. (See what I said in my 4:39 PM post above.)
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,746
Here is the response of several countries to the present events in Israel.
President Joe Biden said US support for Israel was “rock solid and unwavering”.
On Sunday, he ordered US ships and warplanes to move closer to Israel.
Washington also promised to provide munitions and equipment to Israel, US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said in a statement Sunday.
“Several
US citizens” were among those killed in Hamas’s surprise attack,
according to a US National Security Council spokesperson.
Iran
President Ebrahim Raisi
said on Sunday that Iran supported the Palestinians’ right to
self-defence and warned Israel must be held accountable for endangering
the region.
A senior adviser to Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei had already backed the attack Saturday, calling it a “proud operation”.
Saudi Arabia
Saudi
Arabia’s foreign ministry called for “an immediate halt to the
escalation between the two sides, protection of civilians, and
self-control”.
United Nations
The United Nations Security Council held an emergency meeting Sunday, a day after secretary-general Antonio Guterres urged diplomatic efforts in the Middle East to prevent wider conflict.
Diplomats
said the Security Council did not consider any joint statement, let
alone a binding resolution, with members led by Russia hoping for a
broader focus than condemning Hamas.
European Union
EU chief Ursula von der Leyen had already condemned the attack by Hamas on Saturday.
On Sunday, she posted on X, formerly Twitter: “The full scale of the brutality of the Hamas terror attack leaves us breathless.
“Defenceless
people, brutally murdered in cold blood on the streets. We stand strong
with Israel and its people. Today the EU and Israeli flags fly side by
side.”
China
“China
is deeply concerned about the current escalation of tension and
violence between Palestine and Israel,” said a foreign ministry
statement Sunday.
Beijing “calls on all
parties concerned to remain calm and exercise restraint, cease fire
immediately, protect civilians and prevent further deterioration of the
situation”, it added.
Russia
Russia’s foreign ministry called for an “immediate ceasefire” and negotiations towards “a comprehensive, lasting and long-awaited peace,” spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said.
Ukraine
Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky, whose country is fending off a Russian invasion, said Sunday he had spoken with Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu to offer condolences “for the numerous casualties caused by the terrorist attack”.
He said on Saturday that Israel had an “indisputable” right to defend itself, adding that “terror is always a crime”.
South Africa
The ruling African National Congress
issued a statement Sunday saying: “It can no longer be disputed that
Apartheid South Africa’s history is occupied Palestine’s reality.
“As a result, the decision by Palestinians to respond to the brutality of the settler Israeli apartheid regime is unsurprising.”
The
statement added that it was clear that “the degenerating security
situation is directly linked to the unlawful Israeli occupation”.
France
French foreign minister Catherine Colonna
held talks by telephone with several of her counterparts in the Middle
East in a bid to “prevent the conflict degenerating” by spreading to
other parts of the region, a ministry statement Sunday.
France’s foreign ministry also called for the immediate release of the hostages taken by Hamas.
Germany
German chancellor Olaf Scholz
said Sunday Israel has the right to defend itself against “barbaric
attacks” and “to protect its citizens and to pursue the attackers.”
He called Netanyahu to tell him Germany stands “firmly and unwaveringly by Israel’s side”.
German-Israeli nationals are among the hostages taken by Hamas, a foreign ministry source confirmed.
United Kingdom
British prime minister Rishi Sunak said Sunday he had assured Netanyahu of London’s “steadfast support”.
“We will do everything that we can to help. Terrorism will not prevail,” he added in a statement.
Turkey
Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Sunday urged Israel and the Palestinian militant group Hamas “to support peace” and refrain from harming civilians.
“There is no good in (attacking) civilians,” Erdogan said. “We are ready to do everything to reduce the tensions.”
Italy
Italian prime minister Giorgia Meloni has called Netanyahu to reaffirm “Rome’s full solidarity” following the Hamas offensive.
“Italy stands by the Israeli people at this difficult time,” said a government statement.
Japan
Japan “strongly condemns” the attacks, foreign minister Yoko Kamikawa said Sunday, as well as the taking of hostages by Hamas.
“Meanwhile,
we are seriously concerned about the large number of casualties in the
Gaza Strip as a result of attacks by the Israel Defence Forces,” her
statement continued, calling for restraint.
Vatican City
Pope Francis
on Sunday said that “terrorism and war do not lead to any resolutions,
but only to the death and suffering of so many innocent people.
“War is a defeat! Every war is a defeat! Let us pray that there be peace in Israel and in Palestine.”
ndia
Prime minister Narendra Modi said India stood “in solidarity with Israel at this difficult hour”.
“Deeply shocked by the news of terrorist attacks in Israel,” Modi said.
Venezuela
Venezuela’s government expressed its “deep concern” over the clashes.
In
a statement on X, it said the fighting was “the result of the
impossibility of the Palestinian people to find in multilateral
international legality a space to assert their historic rights”.
Yemen
In Yemen, Huthi rebels who control the capital Sanaa expressed their support for “the heroic jihadist operation”.
In
a statement on the website of the Huthi-controlled SABA news agency,
the Iran-aligned militant group said the attack “revealed the weakness,
fragility and impotence” of Israel.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Lerxst I think the treatment of the Palestinians by the Israelis is terrorism and has been going on for far too long. I am not surprised that some people are getting fed up enough to mount more successful insurgencies. Is it great that this will lead to more and further bloodshed? No.
As far as comparing this to Natives or saying that all land is occupied, that is hogwash. We know better at this point, arguably we did back then as well. However, just because the US did it in the past doesn't make it right for Israel to do now.
Hey we are gonna force you out of your land, and when you inevitably fight back we are going to take more of your land with our superior fire power in the name of security, and when you fight back again we will call you terrorists etc... What a fucked up carousel.
Israel seized land because of constant invasion from every direction after the Nakba in 1948.
Really 1948? wow. I guess the land was never Israeli before 1948? Or Mick will come in soon and explain what happened four thousand years ago never really happened. Thats three thousand and eight hundred years before the US seized its land. But according to that comment, the US gets a free pass, Australia gets a free pass, Canada gets a free pass , everyone gets a free pass, except Israel. Wonder why. Wonder what makes Israel so different.
We’ve argued this before, except now, Iran has started a war. They are not interested in peace, and if the Dems start talking like this, it probably will get trump elected.
palestine has always been supportive of ethnic cleansing of israelis and never been interested in peace. Today is obviously Iran destroying the Saudi peace talks. Any attempt to deny that is a joke.
Before 1948 the land was Mandatory Palestine and part of the Great Britain's colonial empire. Now I'm unclear where the US and Australia or Canada for that matter get a free pass. I think we can all agree that what was done in the past should not ever be repeated, but we have been and are seeing it repeated in Palestine. Israel telling Palestinians to leave so they won't be targeted by the retaliation well where are they supposed to go?, certainly not to the homes of their ancestors, or even living dependents if they don't want to be slaughtered. People literally had homes and land taken from them for over 50 years and are expected to be docile.
As for your earlier myth about natives deciding to peacefully coexist with European conquerers, I'm pretty sure Custer and thousands of others that fell to native resistance would beg to differ. Or was Native American resistance just terrorism and a wish for ethic cleansing in your mind? Coexisting only happened once military superiority and the white mans boundless cruelty were well established.
How many unarmed Palestinians have been killed trying to return home? But sure it all must be anti-semitism as you are seemingly trying to infer. Anytime something like this happens it is wrong and no one gets a pass. The founding fathers gave themselves a pass, GB gave Australia a pass after starting a penal colony on aboriginal land, but that don't mean shit if the natives never co signed, just a bunch of legalese.
No one gets a pass. America has an original sin and it isn't slavery. If you can go through life and think this is A ok because the world is just one occupied territory, well that's sad for you. Seeing this continually unfold in real time over my whole life as long as it has is sad.
Israel just keeps penning in the Palestinians and striking with a harder and harder fist after nearly decimating an entire culture.
Wrong is wrong. But please tell me how America and Australia and Canada get a pass and why it's ok to just continue this type of shit in Israel or anywhere else for that matter because previous generations of wealthy white men got away with it.
I'm glad I don't view history through a one way street.
No culture has been decimated or cleaned more than that of the people of Israel. It’s the height of absurdity to suggest otherwise. Had hitter won, these people would have been wiped from the planet. And hitler followed thousands of years or Israelis being forcibly displaced from this very land. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_captivity. That’s one page of many. The links above are like starting a thousand chapter book on chapter 950.
WWII was the last straw of this four thousand year old story, that’s why the UN put together its Partition Plan, which was met immediately with violence from the Arab nations. No bargaining table no negotiations. That’s how the Arabs have handled this complex process since their “beginning” which is really chapter 950. The Arabs start wars, and don’t like how they end.
Look at what happened in WWII and how the arab states responded to these people cleansed by hitler. That violence is their legacy. They stand for hatred and violence, decade after decade, right from the ashes of Hitlers war.
Regarding Canada, we had a recent topic here, the phrase is literally First Nations, plural , and that doesn’t apply to the Canadian immigrants from Europe. There were other peoples living there who were violently displaced. Australia also has issues with its indigenous populations.
Israel occupies key strategic lands in the West Bank because these lands were used to attack Israeli civilians , including women and children, and were seized when Israel was attacked in the 1967 war. The US, Canada, Australia and many other countries get to keep land won after conflict to try to secure peace , yet Israel does not?
Israel occupies other lands in the West Bank that was theirs thousands of years ago. It’s Sunday, you are free to go to church now in multiple religions and read about this in the Bible.
Israel has a list of peace deals with Arab nations. Todays war is about Iran not liking the Saudi talks and destroying the peace process. Go ahead and support Iran.
Is anyone suggesting otherwise?
Second bolded. Why didn't the UN give Germany to the Israelis, It seems to me like it would have been much less destabilizing.
I understand that Palestine was Israels a thousand years ago, but when the partition happened it was a majority Palestinian state and villages and mosques were decimated to repurpose the land for the Israelis. Also Palestinians had been living there for a thousand years as well. It's not like this was some peaceful thing where the UN came in and said here are the new borders and managed everyones previous property rights etc. It was a disaster that has continued to present day.
I also understand that there I likely Iranian intervention behind the scenes here, but if I was Palestinian I would be looking anywhere I could for help if it meant finally not living in an open air prison.
All in it is a crap situation for all involved. It isn't realistic to expect the Palestinians to not try to take back their family homes and lands, and it isn't realistic to expect Israelis to just wait for the next rocket to drop. It's a complex situation and I don't think either side is in the right.
A lot of your comment here is fair, but there are two huge facts missing.
1. Israel has a proven track record, decades long, of negotiating peace deals with Arab states, including the recent attempt with the Saudis, which is what gave Iran desperation to act now.
2. The people of Palestine never displayed an interest in negotiating peace, as they never even recognized Israel’s right to exist.
as a footnote, had Israelis never been forcefully removed from this land, they would have surely outnumbered Palestinians there in 1948.
Can you give me a timeline of when Israelis were forcibly removed?I'm ignorant of that. I understand there was still a large israeli presence (44%) before the partitioning which is a rather sizable minority. Wondering what conditions were like for them pre 1948?
Please stop spreading lies that Israel occupies the West Bank as they have had claims to much of that land thousands of years before Muslim religion was founded. It is the Arabs who have refused to negotiate peace.
Lerxst I think the treatment of the Palestinians by the Israelis is terrorism and has been going on for far too long. I am not surprised that some people are getting fed up enough to mount more successful insurgencies. Is it great that this will lead to more and further bloodshed? No.
As far as comparing this to Natives or saying that all land is occupied, that is hogwash. We know better at this point, arguably we did back then as well. However, just because the US did it in the past doesn't make it right for Israel to do now.
Hey we are gonna force you out of your land, and when you inevitably fight back we are going to take more of your land with our superior fire power in the name of security, and when you fight back again we will call you terrorists etc... What a fucked up carousel.
Israel seized land because of constant invasion from every direction after the Nakba in 1948.
Really 1948? wow. I guess the land was never Israeli before 1948? Or Mick will come in soon and explain what happened four thousand years ago never really happened. Thats three thousand and eight hundred years before the US seized its land. But according to that comment, the US gets a free pass, Australia gets a free pass, Canada gets a free pass , everyone gets a free pass, except Israel. Wonder why. Wonder what makes Israel so different.
We’ve argued this before, except now, Iran has started a war. They are not interested in peace, and if the Dems start talking like this, it probably will get trump elected.
palestine has always been supportive of ethnic cleansing of israelis and never been interested in peace. Today is obviously Iran destroying the Saudi peace talks. Any attempt to deny that is a joke.
Before 1948 the land was Mandatory Palestine and part of the Great Britain's colonial empire. Now I'm unclear where the US and Australia or Canada for that matter get a free pass. I think we can all agree that what was done in the past should not ever be repeated, but we have been and are seeing it repeated in Palestine. Israel telling Palestinians to leave so they won't be targeted by the retaliation well where are they supposed to go?, certainly not to the homes of their ancestors, or even living dependents if they don't want to be slaughtered. People literally had homes and land taken from them for over 50 years and are expected to be docile.
As for your earlier myth about natives deciding to peacefully coexist with European conquerers, I'm pretty sure Custer and thousands of others that fell to native resistance would beg to differ. Or was Native American resistance just terrorism and a wish for ethic cleansing in your mind? Coexisting only happened once military superiority and the white mans boundless cruelty were well established.
How many unarmed Palestinians have been killed trying to return home? But sure it all must be anti-semitism as you are seemingly trying to infer. Anytime something like this happens it is wrong and no one gets a pass. The founding fathers gave themselves a pass, GB gave Australia a pass after starting a penal colony on aboriginal land, but that don't mean shit if the natives never co signed, just a bunch of legalese.
No one gets a pass. America has an original sin and it isn't slavery. If you can go through life and think this is A ok because the world is just one occupied territory, well that's sad for you. Seeing this continually unfold in real time over my whole life as long as it has is sad.
Israel just keeps penning in the Palestinians and striking with a harder and harder fist after nearly decimating an entire culture.
Wrong is wrong. But please tell me how America and Australia and Canada get a pass and why it's ok to just continue this type of shit in Israel or anywhere else for that matter because previous generations of wealthy white men got away with it.
I'm glad I don't view history through a one way street.
No culture has been decimated or cleaned more than that of the people of Israel. It’s the height of absurdity to suggest otherwise. Had hitter won, these people would have been wiped from the planet. And hitler followed thousands of years or Israelis being forcibly displaced from this very land. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_captivity. That’s one page of many. The links above are like starting a thousand chapter book on chapter 950.
WWII was the last straw of this four thousand year old story, that’s why the UN put together its Partition Plan, which was met immediately with violence from the Arab nations. No bargaining table no negotiations. That’s how the Arabs have handled this complex process since their “beginning” which is really chapter 950. The Arabs start wars, and don’t like how they end.
Look at what happened in WWII and how the arab states responded to these people cleansed by hitler. That violence is their legacy. They stand for hatred and violence, decade after decade, right from the ashes of Hitlers war.
Regarding Canada, we had a recent topic here, the phrase is literally First Nations, plural , and that doesn’t apply to the Canadian immigrants from Europe. There were other peoples living there who were violently displaced. Australia also has issues with its indigenous populations.
Israel occupies key strategic lands in the West Bank because these lands were used to attack Israeli civilians , including women and children, and were seized when Israel was attacked in the 1967 war. The US, Canada, Australia and many other countries get to keep land won after conflict to try to secure peace , yet Israel does not?
Israel occupies other lands in the West Bank that was theirs thousands of years ago. It’s Sunday, you are free to go to church now in multiple religions and read about this in the Bible.
Israel has a list of peace deals with Arab nations. Todays war is about Iran not liking the Saudi talks and destroying the peace process. Go ahead and support Iran.
Is anyone suggesting otherwise?
Second bolded. Why didn't the UN give Germany to the Israelis, It seems to me like it would have been much less destabilizing.
I understand that Palestine was Israels a thousand years ago, but when the partition happened it was a majority Palestinian state and villages and mosques were decimated to repurpose the land for the Israelis. Also Palestinians had been living there for a thousand years as well. It's not like this was some peaceful thing where the UN came in and said here are the new borders and managed everyones previous property rights etc. It was a disaster that has continued to present day.
I also understand that there I likely Iranian intervention behind the scenes here, but if I was Palestinian I would be looking anywhere I could for help if it meant finally not living in an open air prison.
All in it is a crap situation for all involved. It isn't realistic to expect the Palestinians to not try to take back their family homes and lands, and it isn't realistic to expect Israelis to just wait for the next rocket to drop. It's a complex situation and I don't think either side is in the right.
A lot of your comment here is fair, but there are two huge facts missing.
1. Israel has a proven track record, decades long, of negotiating peace deals with Arab states, including the recent attempt with the Saudis, which is what gave Iran desperation to act now.
2. The people of Palestine never displayed an interest in negotiating peace, as they never even recognized Israel’s right to exist.
as a footnote, had Israelis never been forcefully removed from this land, they would have surely outnumbered Palestinians there in 1948.
Can you give me a timeline of when Israelis were forcibly removed?I'm ignorant of that. I understand there was still a large israeli presence (44%) before the partitioning which is a rather sizable minority. Wondering what conditions were like for them pre 1948?
From the link in my comment above, “ In 722 BCE, around ten years after the initial deportations, the ruling city of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, Samaria, was finally taken by Sargon II after a three-year siege started by Shalmaneser V.”
much of the history of Israel and the West Bank is in the Old Testament.
The reality is both cultures have claims to this land (one far longer than the other) yet only one refuses to recognize the other, refuses to negotiate peace, insists on the full deportation of the other, believes the other should be removed from the earth, and has a long history of targeting civilians for murder, after their numerous military invasions pre 1974 yielded no results.
“There is today in the Palestinian territory occupied by Israel since
1967 a deeply discriminatory dual legal and political system that
privileges the 700,000 Israeli Jewish settlers living in the 300 illegal
Israeli settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank,” said Michael
Lynk, the UN Special Rapporteur for the situation of human rights in the
Palestinian territory occupied since 1967.
“Living in the same geographic space, but separated by walls,
checkpoints, roads and an entrenched military presence, are more than
three million Palestinians, who are without rights, living under an
oppressive rule of institutional discrimination and without a path to a
genuine Palestinian state that the world has long promised is their
right.
“Another two million Palestinians live in Gaza, described regularly
as an ‘open-air prison’, without adequate access to power, water or
health, with a collapsing economy and with no ability to freely travel
to the rest of Palestine or the outside world.”
The Special Rapporteur said that a political regime which so
intentionally and clearly prioritizes fundamental political, legal and
social rights to one group over another within the same geographic unit
on the basis of one’s racial-national-ethnic identity satisfies the
international legal definition of apartheid.
I think it’s dangerous and offensive to refer to Palestine as occupied, especially when so many here do not understand the brutality of Hamas and their history. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 (yes withdrew) and Hamas seized control in 2006. Yes Hamas won an election, but used brutality to intimidate the Gaza people to vote for them. The US immediately objected because Hamas was widely viewed as a terrorist organization, meaning they target civilians for death, as they did yesterday.
After taking control, Hamas refused to negotiate any attempt at peace , refused to recognize the right of Israel exist, and immediately began attacking Israel. If this were the US and say the Bahamas, would the US allow repeated attacks without taking full control? Israel never occupied Gaza in the manner that is widely viewed as an occupation. They never exercised full control of Gaza after 2005. What they tried to do there is limit social interaction, because since the day Hamas was formed, meeting like that were simple, they involved chants of death to Israel.
If the Israeli failure to defend its borders yesterday brings an end to Netanyahu, great because IMO he is too hardline. I’d love for Israel to be able to negotiate peace, but this is something Hamas and most Palestinians have been against from their inception
What would the US do if they were attacked repeatedly like this?
If you don't want to call keeping people corralled in a space in a highly restrictive manner, what else would you call it?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting the Hamas. No way. (See what I said in my 4:39 PM post above.)
Cmon, look at the videos of how the murderers freely broke thru the chain link fence Saturday and launched a massive invasion. If Gaza were truly occupied, as eastern Ukraine is now, activity massive like that would be impossible. Israel has a limited blockade of Gaza, attempting to limit its importation of weapons from Iran and tries to limit certain social gatherings, which is obviously used to recruit the youth for terrorism.
israel withdrew its military from Gaza fifteen years ago and Hamas used military force and intimidation to seize control of the territory and intimidate voters to support them. The categorization of this by Amnesty as an occupation has been a disaster for the peace process that Israel wants and has a proven track record of trying to achieve. Hamas has no such track record.
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mickeyrat
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Please stop spreading lies that Israel occupies the West Bank as they have had claims to much of that land thousands of years before Muslim religion was founded. It is the Arabs who have refused to negotiate peace.
israel as a state existed before 1948? is that your argument?
then why, pray tell, did they confine themselves after 1948 to the borders established at that time until 1967?
pssst......
Jews were not the first in that area as prehistory CLEARLY SHOWS.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,830
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,830
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,830
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I always wonder why the UN didn't just give Germany to the Israelis, it seems more fitting and like it would have been much easier to protect globally especially coming out of WWII
Please stop spreading lies that Israel occupies the West Bank as they have had claims to much of that land thousands of years before Muslim religion was founded. It is the Arabs who have refused to negotiate peace.
I feel like this would be like Russia complaining that Ukraine doesn’t want to negotiate.
Lerxst I think the treatment of the Palestinians by the Israelis is terrorism and has been going on for far too long. I am not surprised that some people are getting fed up enough to mount more successful insurgencies. Is it great that this will lead to more and further bloodshed? No.
As far as comparing this to Natives or saying that all land is occupied, that is hogwash. We know better at this point, arguably we did back then as well. However, just because the US did it in the past doesn't make it right for Israel to do now.
Hey we are gonna force you out of your land, and when you inevitably fight back we are going to take more of your land with our superior fire power in the name of security, and when you fight back again we will call you terrorists etc... What a fucked up carousel.
Israel seized land because of constant invasion from every direction after the Nakba in 1948.
Really 1948? wow. I guess the land was never Israeli before 1948? Or Mick will come in soon and explain what happened four thousand years ago never really happened. Thats three thousand and eight hundred years before the US seized its land. But according to that comment, the US gets a free pass, Australia gets a free pass, Canada gets a free pass , everyone gets a free pass, except Israel. Wonder why. Wonder what makes Israel so different.
We’ve argued this before, except now, Iran has started a war. They are not interested in peace, and if the Dems start talking like this, it probably will get trump elected.
palestine has always been supportive of ethnic cleansing of israelis and never been interested in peace. Today is obviously Iran destroying the Saudi peace talks. Any attempt to deny that is a joke.
Before 1948 the land was Mandatory Palestine and part of the Great Britain's colonial empire. Now I'm unclear where the US and Australia or Canada for that matter get a free pass. I think we can all agree that what was done in the past should not ever be repeated, but we have been and are seeing it repeated in Palestine. Israel telling Palestinians to leave so they won't be targeted by the retaliation well where are they supposed to go?, certainly not to the homes of their ancestors, or even living dependents if they don't want to be slaughtered. People literally had homes and land taken from them for over 50 years and are expected to be docile.
As for your earlier myth about natives deciding to peacefully coexist with European conquerers, I'm pretty sure Custer and thousands of others that fell to native resistance would beg to differ. Or was Native American resistance just terrorism and a wish for ethic cleansing in your mind? Coexisting only happened once military superiority and the white mans boundless cruelty were well established.
How many unarmed Palestinians have been killed trying to return home? But sure it all must be anti-semitism as you are seemingly trying to infer. Anytime something like this happens it is wrong and no one gets a pass. The founding fathers gave themselves a pass, GB gave Australia a pass after starting a penal colony on aboriginal land, but that don't mean shit if the natives never co signed, just a bunch of legalese.
No one gets a pass. America has an original sin and it isn't slavery. If you can go through life and think this is A ok because the world is just one occupied territory, well that's sad for you. Seeing this continually unfold in real time over my whole life as long as it has is sad.
Israel just keeps penning in the Palestinians and striking with a harder and harder fist after nearly decimating an entire culture.
Wrong is wrong. But please tell me how America and Australia and Canada get a pass and why it's ok to just continue this type of shit in Israel or anywhere else for that matter because previous generations of wealthy white men got away with it.
I'm glad I don't view history through a one way street.
No culture has been decimated or cleaned more than that of the people of Israel. It’s the height of absurdity to suggest otherwise. Had hitter won, these people would have been wiped from the planet. And hitler followed thousands of years or Israelis being forcibly displaced from this very land. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_captivity. That’s one page of many. The links above are like starting a thousand chapter book on chapter 950.
WWII was the last straw of this four thousand year old story, that’s why the UN put together its Partition Plan, which was met immediately with violence from the Arab nations. No bargaining table no negotiations. That’s how the Arabs have handled this complex process since their “beginning” which is really chapter 950. The Arabs start wars, and don’t like how they end.
Look at what happened in WWII and how the arab states responded to these people cleansed by hitler. That violence is their legacy. They stand for hatred and violence, decade after decade, right from the ashes of Hitlers war.
Regarding Canada, we had a recent topic here, the phrase is literally First Nations, plural , and that doesn’t apply to the Canadian immigrants from Europe. There were other peoples living there who were violently displaced. Australia also has issues with its indigenous populations.
Israel occupies key strategic lands in the West Bank because these lands were used to attack Israeli civilians , including women and children, and were seized when Israel was attacked in the 1967 war. The US, Canada, Australia and many other countries get to keep land won after conflict to try to secure peace , yet Israel does not?
Israel occupies other lands in the West Bank that was theirs thousands of years ago. It’s Sunday, you are free to go to church now in multiple religions and read about this in the Bible.
Israel has a list of peace deals with Arab nations. Todays war is about Iran not liking the Saudi talks and destroying the peace process. Go ahead and support Iran.
Is anyone suggesting otherwise?
Second bolded. Why didn't the UN give Germany to the Israelis, It seems to me like it would have been much less destabilizing.
I understand that Palestine was Israels a thousand years ago, but when the partition happened it was a majority Palestinian state and villages and mosques were decimated to repurpose the land for the Israelis. Also Palestinians had been living there for a thousand years as well. It's not like this was some peaceful thing where the UN came in and said here are the new borders and managed everyones previous property rights etc. It was a disaster that has continued to present day.
I also understand that there I likely Iranian intervention behind the scenes here, but if I was Palestinian I would be looking anywhere I could for help if it meant finally not living in an open air prison.
All in it is a crap situation for all involved. It isn't realistic to expect the Palestinians to not try to take back their family homes and lands, and it isn't realistic to expect Israelis to just wait for the next rocket to drop. It's a complex situation and I don't think either side is in the right.
A lot of your comment here is fair, but there are two huge facts missing.
1. Israel has a proven track record, decades long, of negotiating peace deals with Arab states, including the recent attempt with the Saudis, which is what gave Iran desperation to act now.
2. The people of Palestine never displayed an interest in negotiating peace, as they never even recognized Israel’s right to exist.
as a footnote, had Israelis never been forcefully removed from this land, they would have surely outnumbered Palestinians there in 1948.
Can you give me a timeline of when Israelis were forcibly removed?I'm ignorant of that. I understand there was still a large israeli presence (44%) before the partitioning which is a rather sizable minority. Wondering what conditions were like for them pre 1948?
From the link in my comment above, “ In 722 BCE, around ten years after the initial deportations, the ruling city of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, Samaria, was finally taken by Sargon II after a three-year siege started by Shalmaneser V.”
much of the history of Israel and the West Bank is in the Old Testament.
The reality is both cultures have claims to this land (one far longer than the other) yet only one refuses to recognize the other, refuses to negotiate peace, insists on the full deportation of the other, believes the other should be removed from the earth, and has a long history of targeting civilians for murder, after their numerous military invasions pre 1974 yielded no results.
Honestly, I’ve seen this fairly same argument on the other side.
I don’t think citing the bible as accurate historical record really helps any argument.
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mickeyrat
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you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,830
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Second bolded. Why didn't the UN give Germany to the Israelis, It seems to me like it would have been much less destabilizing.
I understand that Palestine was Israels a thousand years ago, but when the partition happened it was a majority Palestinian state and villages and mosques were decimated to repurpose the land for the Israelis. Also Palestinians had been living there for a thousand years as well. It's not like this was some peaceful thing where the UN came in and said here are the new borders and managed everyones previous property rights etc. It was a disaster that has continued to present day.
I also understand that there I likely Iranian intervention behind the scenes here, but if I was Palestinian I would be looking anywhere I could for help if it meant finally not living in an open air prison.
All in it is a crap situation for all involved. It isn't realistic to expect the Palestinians to not try to take back their family homes and lands, and it isn't realistic to expect Israelis to just wait for the next rocket to drop. It's a complex situation and I don't think either side is in the right.
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
After taking control, Hamas refused to negotiate any attempt at peace , refused to recognize the right of Israel exist, and immediately began attacking Israel. If this were the US and say the Bahamas, would the US allow repeated attacks without taking full control? Israel never occupied Gaza in the manner that is widely viewed as an occupation. They never exercised full control of Gaza after 2005. What they tried to do there is limit social interaction, because since the day Hamas was formed, meeting like that were simple, they involved chants of death to Israel.
If the Israeli failure to defend its borders yesterday brings an end to Netanyahu, great because IMO he is too hardline. I’d love for Israel to be able to negotiate peace, but this is something Hamas and most Palestinians have been against from their inception
What would the US do if they were attacked repeatedly like this?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
1. Israel has a proven track record, decades long, of negotiating peace deals with Arab states, including the recent attempt with the Saudis, which is what gave Iran desperation to act now.
as a footnote, had Israelis never been forcefully removed from this land, they would have surely outnumbered Palestinians there in 1948.
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
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United States
President Joe Biden said US support for Israel was “rock solid and unwavering”.
On Sunday, he ordered US ships and warplanes to move closer to Israel.
Washington also promised to provide munitions and equipment to Israel, US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said in a statement Sunday.
“Several US citizens” were among those killed in Hamas’s surprise attack, according to a US National Security Council spokesperson.
Iran
President Ebrahim Raisi said on Sunday that Iran supported the Palestinians’ right to self-defence and warned Israel must be held accountable for endangering the region.
A senior adviser to Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei had already backed the attack Saturday, calling it a “proud operation”.
Saudi Arabia
Saudi Arabia’s foreign ministry called for “an immediate halt to the escalation between the two sides, protection of civilians, and self-control”.
United Nations
The United Nations Security Council held an emergency meeting Sunday, a day after secretary-general Antonio Guterres urged diplomatic efforts in the Middle East to prevent wider conflict.
Diplomats said the Security Council did not consider any joint statement, let alone a binding resolution, with members led by Russia hoping for a broader focus than condemning Hamas.
European Union
EU chief Ursula von der Leyen had already condemned the attack by Hamas on Saturday.
On Sunday, she posted on X, formerly Twitter: “The full scale of the brutality of the Hamas terror attack leaves us breathless.
“Defenceless people, brutally murdered in cold blood on the streets. We stand strong with Israel and its people. Today the EU and Israeli flags fly side by side.”
China
“China is deeply concerned about the current escalation of tension and violence between Palestine and Israel,” said a foreign ministry statement Sunday.
Beijing “calls on all parties concerned to remain calm and exercise restraint, cease fire immediately, protect civilians and prevent further deterioration of the situation”, it added.
Russia
Russia’s foreign ministry called for an “immediate ceasefire” and negotiations towards “a comprehensive, lasting and long-awaited peace,” spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said.
Ukraine
Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky, whose country is fending off a Russian invasion, said Sunday he had spoken with Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu to offer condolences “for the numerous casualties caused by the terrorist attack”.
He said on Saturday that Israel had an “indisputable” right to defend itself, adding that “terror is always a crime”.
South Africa
The ruling African National Congress issued a statement Sunday saying: “It can no longer be disputed that Apartheid South Africa’s history is occupied Palestine’s reality.
“As a result, the decision by Palestinians to respond to the brutality of the settler Israeli apartheid regime is unsurprising.”
The statement added that it was clear that “the degenerating security situation is directly linked to the unlawful Israeli occupation”.
France
French foreign minister Catherine Colonna held talks by telephone with several of her counterparts in the Middle East in a bid to “prevent the conflict degenerating” by spreading to other parts of the region, a ministry statement Sunday.
France’s foreign ministry also called for the immediate release of the hostages taken by Hamas.
Germany
German chancellor Olaf Scholz said Sunday Israel has the right to defend itself against “barbaric attacks” and “to protect its citizens and to pursue the attackers.”
He called Netanyahu to tell him Germany stands “firmly and unwaveringly by Israel’s side”.
German-Israeli nationals are among the hostages taken by Hamas, a foreign ministry source confirmed.
United Kingdom
British prime minister Rishi Sunak said Sunday he had assured Netanyahu of London’s “steadfast support”.
“We will do everything that we can to help. Terrorism will not prevail,” he added in a statement.
Turkey
Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Sunday urged Israel and the Palestinian militant group Hamas “to support peace” and refrain from harming civilians.
“There is no good in (attacking) civilians,” Erdogan said. “We are ready to do everything to reduce the tensions.”
Italy
Italian prime minister Giorgia Meloni has called Netanyahu to reaffirm “Rome’s full solidarity” following the Hamas offensive.
“Italy stands by the Israeli people at this difficult time,” said a government statement.
Japan
Japan “strongly condemns” the attacks, foreign minister Yoko Kamikawa said Sunday, as well as the taking of hostages by Hamas.
“Meanwhile, we are seriously concerned about the large number of casualties in the Gaza Strip as a result of attacks by the Israel Defence Forces,” her statement continued, calling for restraint.
Vatican City
Pope Francis on Sunday said that “terrorism and war do not lead to any resolutions, but only to the death and suffering of so many innocent people.
“War is a defeat! Every war is a defeat! Let us pray that there be peace in Israel and in Palestine.”
ndia
Prime minister Narendra Modi said India stood “in solidarity with Israel at this difficult hour”.
“Deeply shocked by the news of terrorist attacks in Israel,” Modi said.
Venezuela
Venezuela’s government expressed its “deep concern” over the clashes.
In a statement on X, it said the fighting was “the result of the impossibility of the Palestinian people to find in multilateral international legality a space to assert their historic rights”.
Yemen
In Yemen, Huthi rebels who control the capital Sanaa expressed their support for “the heroic jihadist operation”.
In a statement on the website of the Huthi-controlled SABA news agency, the Iran-aligned militant group said the attack “revealed the weakness, fragility and impotence” of Israel.
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
much of the history of Israel and the West Bank is in the Old Testament.
The reality is both cultures have claims to this land (one far longer than the other) yet only one refuses to recognize the other, refuses to negotiate peace, insists on the full deportation of the other, believes the other should be removed from the earth, and has a long history of targeting civilians for murder, after their numerous military invasions pre 1974 yielded no results.
israel withdrew its military from Gaza fifteen years ago and Hamas used military force and intimidation to seize control of the territory and intimidate voters to support them. The categorization of this by Amnesty as an occupation has been a disaster for the peace process that Israel wants and has a proven track record of trying to achieve. Hamas has no such track record.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14