Meanwhile back in Israel

hedonist

I'm responsible for my own ass; second in line over that heart-shaped domain is my husband.

Anyone else? I'd ask that they ever so gently back off.

Leave it to me to find a way to be.

It is so weird but maybe not to post this song here.

Happy 'ween.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcQ7fTH_pOE





BOO.

hedonist

Actually, I decided to edit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ7z57qrZU8

L'Chaim!

HughFreakingDillon

mickeyrat said:

not exactly sure what that really has to do with the creation of Israel, the occupation BY Israel of lands not within its established recohgnized borders, the allowance of homes to be razed, olive groes bulldozed or otherwise destroyed, the extrajudiicial executions. the disproportionate retaliation against innocents for the actions of grouup seeking to resist this occupation with any means at their disposal. the lack of any real justice in the defense of these innocents when victims of crimes against them by Israeli citizens living outside of their recognized borders in settlements built by the occupying power in violation of internaional law.


Kindlly begin your own thread on the topic you wish.

I agree. Back to topic.

JohnnieBeBlue

Halifax2TheMax said:

JohnnieBeBlue said:

At what point do any of you form a substantive thought and actually respond to my post from yesterday rather than continuing to cut and paste Arab propaganda?

Got a source for your cut and paste or are you claiming the work as your own? I'd like to know before I set off on a "fact finding" inquiry or would you like to admit it's Israeli apologist propaganda? What happened in 1948 when the Zionist terrorized the British and got them to leave? What did the Zionists do to the Palestinians on the land and in the houses that the Zionists wanted? What happened? Were they justly compensated or did they have their throats slit and their olive groves bulldozed? I think you know Johnny, I think you know but I don't think you'll admit to it. Also, why was the USS Liberty attacked and what was occurring that prompted the attack? Again, I think you know but your heartless soul will never admit to it, will it Johnny?

Yes, back to topic.

Halifax wants to know what happened. So what happened? The Arabs in Palestine launched a wave of terror during the years 1936 to 1939, and to appease them, the British, acting as the Mandatory Authority under the League of Nations Mandate, issued the White Paper in 1939 that severely restricted Jews from entering Palestine, leaving millions of Jews trapped in Europe under Hitler’s jackboot. Meanwhile, Arabs flocked into Palestine during the 1930s and 1940s as Palestine’s economy was spurred by Jewish development.

As the UN voted, on Nov. 29, 1947, to partition Palestine into a state for Jews and a state for Arabs, the Arabs in and out of Palestine rejected that proposal. Jamal Husseini, the Arab Higher Committee’s spokesman, told the UN that the Arabs would drench the soil of our beloved country with that last drop of our blood. The holy men of Al Azhar University in Cairo called on the Muslim world to proclaim a jihad against the Jews. On January 9, 1948, approximately 1,000 Arabs attacked Jewish communities in northern Palestine. By February, the British said that so many Arabs had infiltrated that they lacked the forces to run them back. On April 16, 1948, Jamal Husseini told the UN: “The representatives of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this. We told the whole world that we were going to fight.”

What happened you ask? The Arabs attacked and they lost. There was an Arab exodus from Palestine, beginning in January 1948. Instead of listening to false narratives cooked up by propagandists, why not look at what Arabs themselves said decades ago. On January 30, 1948, a Jaffa newspaper, Ash Sha’ab, reported: “The first of our fifth column consists of those who abandon their houses and their businesses and go to live elsewhere. . . At the first signs of trouble they take to their heels to escape sharing the burden of the struggle.” John Bagot Glubb, a British citizen who commanded Jordan’s Arab Legion fighting against the Jews, said: “Villages were frequently abandoned even before they were threatened by the progress of the war.” After Jews were successful in battle in Haifa, a British police report from Haifa dated April 26, 1948 stated that “every effort is being made by the Jews to persuade the Arab populace to stay and carry on with their normal lives, to get their shops and businesses open and to be assured that their lives and interests will be safe.”

But Arab leaders actually urged Palestinian Arabs to leave as Arab armies were invading to kill the Jews of Palestine. The U.S. Consul General in Haifa, Aubrey Lippincott, wrote on April 22, 1948 that the local mufti-dominated Arab leaders were urging all Arabs to leave the city. The Arab National Committee in Jerusalem, following instructions from the Arab Higher Committee, ordered women, children and the elderly to leave, so they would not be an obstacle to the holy war. In his memoirs, Haled al Azm, the Prime Minister of Syria in 1948-49, wrote: “Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave. Only a few months separated our call to them to leave and our appeal to the United Nations to resolve on their return.” The Jordanian newspaper Filastin wrote on February 19, 1949, that: The Arab States encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies. There are many more similar quotes made by Arabs, and there are no media reports by any of the countless international journalists who were present during the fighting of any mass forced expulsion of Palestinian Arabs from Palestine to other countries. It just didn’t happen that way.

What did Israel, the winner of the war, do? In 1949, Israel offered to allow families that had been separated during the war to return, it offered to release refugee accounts in Israeli banks, it offered to pay compensation for abandoned lands, and to repatriate 100,000 refugees. The Arabs rejected these offers.

Israel also passed a law that created a Custodian of Abandoned Property to prevent unlawful occupation of empty houses and business premises and to secure the tilling of deserted fields. But you wont read about that in any Palestinian Arab narrative of the events of 1948-1949. Israel actually did release funds from bank accounts of Arab refugees, paid money to over 11,000 claimants for lost land, and granted more than 20,000 acres as alternative land holdings. Did you know that? No you didn't.

In contrast, after World War II, over 12.5 million ethnic Germans were expelled from Poland and Czechoslovakia, and they were only allowed to take what they could carry. Finland was forced to cede almost 1/8th of its land and it was forced to accept over 400,000 refugees from the Soviet Union. In 1947, about 8 million Hindus fled Pakistan and 6 million Muslims fled India. These people wanted to avoid being trapped during war, just like the Palestinian Arabs. There was never an international call for repatriating those who left, and no special international relief organization was established for them. We just don’t hear anything about them.

Nor does one hear calls for justice for the 750,000 Jews who were expelled from Arab lands as a result of the Arab-Israeli conflict. Instead, we hear about the need for Justice for Palestine, even though their problems are self-inflicted, and they are the aggressors who lost the war.
---
It is shocking that you bring up the Liberty Incident that occurred during the Six Day War of 1967. It has nothing to do with the issues previously discussed. That is a common tactic of the propagandist for Palestinian Arabs – throw out as many accusations as you can, ignore facts, and argue based upon a distorted narrative. The Liberty Incident was a tragedy that deserves a separate response which will be forthcoming. Stay tuned.

Halifax2TheMax

JohnnieBeBlue said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

JohnnieBeBlue said:

At what point do any of you form a substantive thought and actually respond to my post from yesterday rather than continuing to cut and paste Arab propaganda?

Got a source for your cut and paste or are you claiming the work as your own? I'd like to know before I set off on a "fact finding" inquiry or would you like to admit it's Israeli apologist propaganda? What happened in 1948 when the Zionist terrorized the British and got them to leave? What did the Zionists do to the Palestinians on the land and in the houses that the Zionists wanted? What happened? Were they justly compensated or did they have their throats slit and their olive groves bulldozed? I think you know Johnny, I think you know but I don't think you'll admit to it. Also, why was the USS Liberty attacked and what was occurring that prompted the attack? Again, I think you know but your heartless soul will never admit to it, will it Johnny?

Yes, back to topic.

Halifax wants to know what happened. So what happened? The Arabs in Palestine launched a wave of terror during the years 1936 to 1939, and to appease them, the British, acting as the Mandatory Authority under the League of Nations Mandate, issued the White Paper in 1939 that severely restricted Jews from entering Palestine, leaving millions of Jews trapped in Europe under Hitler’s jackboot. Meanwhile, Arabs flocked into Palestine during the 1930s and 1940s as Palestine’s economy was spurred by Jewish development.

As the UN voted, on Nov. 29, 1947, to partition Palestine into a state for Jews and a state for Arabs, the Arabs in and out of Palestine rejected that proposal. Jamal Husseini, the Arab Higher Committee’s spokesman, told the UN that the Arabs would drench the soil of our beloved country with that last drop of our blood. The holy men of Al Azhar University in Cairo called on the Muslim world to proclaim a jihad against the Jews. On January 9, 1948, approximately 1,000 Arabs attacked Jewish communities in northern Palestine. By February, the British said that so many Arabs had infiltrated that they lacked the forces to run them back. On April 16, 1948, Jamal Husseini told the UN: “The representatives of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this. We told the whole world that we were going to fight.”

What happened you ask? The Arabs attacked and they lost. There was an Arab exodus from Palestine, beginning in January 1948. Instead of listening to false narratives cooked up by propagandists, why not look at what Arabs themselves said decades ago. On January 30, 1948, a Jaffa newspaper, Ash Sha’ab, reported: “The first of our fifth column consists of those who abandon their houses and their businesses and go to live elsewhere. . . At the first signs of trouble they take to their heels to escape sharing the burden of the struggle.” John Bagot Glubb, a British citizen who commanded Jordan’s Arab Legion fighting against the Jews, said: “Villages were frequently abandoned even before they were threatened by the progress of the war.” After Jews were successful in battle in Haifa, a British police report from Haifa dated April 26, 1948 stated that “every effort is being made by the Jews to persuade the Arab populace to stay and carry on with their normal lives, to get their shops and businesses open and to be assured that their lives and interests will be safe.”

But Arab leaders actually urged Palestinian Arabs to leave as Arab armies were invading to kill the Jews of Palestine. The U.S. Consul General in Haifa, Aubrey Lippincott, wrote on April 22, 1948 that the local mufti-dominated Arab leaders were urging all Arabs to leave the city. The Arab National Committee in Jerusalem, following instructions from the Arab Higher Committee, ordered women, children and the elderly to leave, so they would not be an obstacle to the holy war. In his memoirs, Haled al Azm, the Prime Minister of Syria in 1948-49, wrote: “Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave. Only a few months separated our call to them to leave and our appeal to the United Nations to resolve on their return.” The Jordanian newspaper Filastin wrote on February 19, 1949, that: The Arab States encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies. There are many more similar quotes made by Arabs, and there are no media reports by any of the countless international journalists who were present during the fighting of any mass forced expulsion of Palestinian Arabs from Palestine to other countries. It just didn’t happen that way.

What did Israel, the winner of the war, do? In 1949, Israel offered to allow families that had been separated during the war to return, it offered to release refugee accounts in Israeli banks, it offered to pay compensation for abandoned lands, and to repatriate 100,000 refugees. The Arabs rejected these offers.

Israel also passed a law that created a Custodian of Abandoned Property to prevent unlawful occupation of empty houses and business premises and to secure the tilling of deserted fields. But you wont read about that in any Palestinian Arab narrative of the events of 1948-1949. Israel actually did release funds from bank accounts of Arab refugees, paid money to over 11,000 claimants for lost land, and granted more than 20,000 acres as alternative land holdings. Did you know that? No you didn't.

In contrast, after World War II, over 12.5 million ethnic Germans were expelled from Poland and Czechoslovakia, and they were only allowed to take what they could carry. Finland was forced to cede almost 1/8th of its land and it was forced to accept over 400,000 refugees from the Soviet Union. In 1947, about 8 million Hindus fled Pakistan and 6 million Muslims fled India. These people wanted to avoid being trapped during war, just like the Palestinian Arabs. There was never an international call for repatriating those who left, and no special international relief organization was established for them. We just don’t hear anything about them.

Nor does one hear calls for justice for the 750,000 Jews who were expelled from Arab lands as a result of the Arab-Israeli conflict. Instead, we hear about the need for Justice for Palestine, even though their problems are self-inflicted, and they are the aggressors who lost the war.
---
It is shocking that you bring up the Liberty Incident that occurred during the Six Day War of 1967. It has nothing to do with the issues previously discussed. That is a common tactic of the propagandist for Palestinian Arabs – throw out as many accusations as you can, ignore facts, and argue based upon a distorted narrative. The Liberty Incident was a tragedy that deserves a separate response which will be forthcoming. Stay tuned.

Care to cite your source or would you like me to believe that you "pulled this from your head ?"

Halifax2TheMax

Did Bibi write that for you?

JohnnieBeBlue

Cite my sources? Which part would you like to contest? Would you like to take a field trip to the library with me? It's sad when you need to resort to these responses rather than responding with something substantive.

Drowned Out

JohnnieBeBlue said:

At what point do any of you form a substantive thought and actually respond to my post from yesterday rather than continuing to cut and paste Arab propaganda?

Cut and paste Arab propaganda? Now that's funny. At least we're linking our sources. Is it somehow better to go the Dershowitz route and plagiarize books, changing a few words, then call them your own? Does that make you feel intelligent or something?

JohnnieBeBlue said:

The source is my head buddy. I'm sure you've already tried fact finding. As to the rest of your allegations, I will answer them all over the weekend.

Your head? Do these books ring any bells?

Crossovers: Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism
By Shlomo Sharan, Dāwid Bûqay

The Complete Idiot's Guide to Middle East Conflict, 4th Edition
By Mitchell G. Bard, Ph.D.


I'm also finding hits from the Jewish virtual library. You're a fraud and a liar.

i wish I had time to reply to all this revisionist drivel.

JohnnieBeBlue

I did not use a single website to write any of the above. Perhaps they use the same sources. What continues to occur is attacking the messenger and not once submitting a substantive argument. Fact are inconvenient things for the Palestinian position.

mickeyrat

Then citations. The information came from somewhere specific.

JohnnieBeBlue

I have a huge library of books I've read on the topic. You know, to actually be informed on the issues. If you would like to dispute any of the facts then go right ahead.

Drowned Out

JohnnieBeBlue said:

I did not use a single website to write any of the above. Perhaps they use the same sources. What continues to occur is attacking the messenger and not once submitting a substantive argument. Fact are inconvenient things for the Palestinian position.

Which sources? I thought this was all from your head? are you talking about the books that came up when googling excerts from your post? Which messenger am I attacking? Not hard to name a book and page number...

mickeyrat

JohnnieBeBlue said:

I have a huge library of books I've read on the topic. You know, to actually be informed on the issues. If you would like to dispute any of the facts then go right ahead.

then perhaps some of us may be inclined to read the same?
from which publications have your drawn your posted information from?

mickeyrat

Extrajudicial killing.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/israeli-soldiers-kill-palestinian-hebron-151101125204578.html

JohnnieBeBlue

Drowned Out said:

JohnnieBeBlue said:

I did not use a single website to write any of the above. Perhaps they use the same sources. What continues to occur is attacking the messenger and not once submitting a substantive argument. Fact are inconvenient things for the Palestinian position.

Which sources? I thought this was all from your head? are you talking about the books that came up when googling excerts from your post? Which messenger am I attacking? Not hard to name a book and page number...

By "my head" I meant that it was not a cut and paste job as the person I was responding to had alleged. I've asked which parts you dispute and I hear back are calls for sources as if I completely rewrote the actual history of the region. I guarantee that any book I would cite would be immediately written off as Zionist propaganda or an Israeli shill author. That's how you guys roll. I repeat for the third time, which part of what I wrote do you take issue with? Which part is inaccurate? Which part is made up? Let's talk facts. Which part is factually inaccurate?

HughFreakingDillon

JohnnieBeBlue said:

Drowned Out said:

JohnnieBeBlue said:

I did not use a single website to write any of the above. Perhaps they use the same sources. What continues to occur is attacking the messenger and not once submitting a substantive argument. Fact are inconvenient things for the Palestinian position.

Which sources? I thought this was all from your head? are you talking about the books that came up when googling excerts from your post? Which messenger am I attacking? Not hard to name a book and page number...

By "my head" I meant that it was not a cut and paste job as the person I was responding to had alleged. I've asked which parts you dispute and I hear back are calls for sources as if I completely rewrote the actual history of the region. I guarantee that any book I would cite would be immediately written off as Zionist propaganda or an Israeli shill author. That's how you guys roll. I repeat for the third time, which part of what I wrote do you take issue with? Which part is inaccurate? Which part is made up? Let's talk facts. Which part is factually inaccurate?

part of researching the legitimacy of facts is knowing the source. it wastes a lot less time if you know where to look.

Drowned Out

JohnnieBeBlue said:

Drowned Out said:

JohnnieBeBlue said:

I did not use a single website to write any of the above. Perhaps they use the same sources. What continues to occur is attacking the messenger and not once submitting a substantive argument. Fact are inconvenient things for the Palestinian position.

Which sources? I thought this was all from your head? are you talking about the books that came up when googling excerts from your post? Which messenger am I attacking? Not hard to name a book and page number...

By "my head" I meant that it was not a cut and paste job as the person I was responding to had alleged. I've asked which parts you dispute and I hear back are calls for sources as if I completely rewrote the actual history of the region. I guarantee that any book I would cite would be immediately written off as Zionist propaganda or an Israeli shill author. That's how you guys roll. I repeat for the third time, which part of what I wrote do you take issue with? Which part is inaccurate? Which part is made up? Let's talk facts. Which part is factually inaccurate?

No, typing paragraphs from books and adding your own commentary to it is not copy/paste. But it's hardly from your head. You can't talk your way out of this. I can go back to google books and copy/paste the paragraphs i searched if you'd like. Hint: it's easy to find your sources when you include strings of stats and specific dates. It's not like you have all of that memorized, so stop side stepping the fact that you're posting information and not giving us the opportunity to vet your sources to help verify or refute your claims.

The only place I sit in front of a PC these days is at work, and it's our busiest time of year....it would take hours to pick apart the sheer volume of crap you've posted here. Virtually every paragraph in the 4-5 posts of your book transcription/commentary lacks context, or contains such twisted versions of history that it would take hours to refute it. Its funny that you demand this of us, yet when I posted the information earlier in the thread about zionists abandoning European Jews in the war to further their agenda, your response was that it was a 'such a backassed view of history I don't even know what to say. Where the hell do you guys find this stuff?'...when the article gave citations and direct quotes.....I actually posted information about where I found that stuff (the sources were zionist leaders, btw). You chose to 'attack the messenger' and skirt the topic. That's a single claim. You post pages and pages of books mixed with your opinions, then claim some kind of victory because we won't spend two days picking it apart? lol....
I could copy/paste/transcribe a shit ton of hardcore anti- Zionist, anti-jew literature, claim it as my own, and demand you refute it piece by piece, just as easily as you've done. But then I'd be a liar and a fraud, with an intellectually dishonest approach to the morally reprehensible agenda of ethnic cleansing. I'll leave that tactic to you....

JohnnieBeBlue

Drowned Out said:

JohnnieBeBlue said:

Drowned Out said:

JohnnieBeBlue said:

I did not use a single website to write any of the above. Perhaps they use the same sources. What continues to occur is attacking the messenger and not once submitting a substantive argument. Fact are inconvenient things for the Palestinian position.

Which sources? I thought this was all from your head? are you talking about the books that came up when googling excerts from your post? Which messenger am I attacking? Not hard to name a book and page number...

By "my head" I meant that it was not a cut and paste job as the person I was responding to had alleged. I've asked which parts you dispute and I hear back are calls for sources as if I completely rewrote the actual history of the region. I guarantee that any book I would cite would be immediately written off as Zionist propaganda or an Israeli shill author. That's how you guys roll. I repeat for the third time, which part of what I wrote do you take issue with? Which part is inaccurate? Which part is made up? Let's talk facts. Which part is factually inaccurate?

No, typing paragraphs from books and adding your own commentary to it is not copy/paste. But it's hardly from your head. You can't talk your way out of this. I can go back to google books and copy/paste the paragraphs i searched if you'd like. Hint: it's easy to find your sources when you include strings of stats and specific dates. It's not like you have all of that memorized, so stop side stepping the fact that you're posting information and not giving us the opportunity to vet your sources to help verify or refute your claims.

The only place I sit in front of a PC these days is at work, and it's our busiest time of year....it would take hours to pick apart the sheer volume of crap you've posted here. Virtually every paragraph in the 4-5 posts of your book transcription/commentary lacks context, or contains such twisted versions of history that it would take hours to refute it. Its funny that you demand this of us, yet when I posted the information earlier in the thread about zionists abandoning European Jews in the war to further their agenda, your response was that it was a 'such a backassed view of history I don't even know what to say. Where the hell do you guys find this stuff?'...when the article gave citations and direct quotes.....I actually posted information about where I found that stuff (the sources were zionist leaders, btw). You chose to 'attack the messenger' and skirt the topic. That's a single claim. You post pages and pages of books mixed with your opinions, then claim some kind of victory because we won't spend two days picking it apart? lol....
I could copy/paste/transcribe a shit ton of hardcore anti- Zionist, anti-jew literature, claim it as my own, and demand you refute it piece by piece, just as easily as you've done. But then I'd be a liar and a fraud, with an intellectually dishonest approach to the morally reprehensible agenda of ethnic cleansing. I'll leave that tactic to you....

Fair enough. I'll go back and deconstruct your post piece by piece. Stay tuned...

mickeyrat

Funny thing about history and its telling of it. Can get vastly different narritives depending on which side of an events or events you ask.

I have no doubt the native peoples of America have their own perspective about our shared history.

So please, for the sake of clarity and allowance of informed opinion, cite the texts you draw from.

gimmesometruth27

history is written by the powerful and it is written by the winners. that is why we never get the palestinian view of anything in the media. and when we do get the palestinian side of the story, it is dismissed as propaganda by the israel apologists.