Meanwhile back in Israel

HughFreakingDillon

gimmesometruth27 said:

history is written by the powerful and it is written by the winners. that is why we never get the palestinian view of anything in the media. and when we do get the palestinian side of the story, it is dismissed as propaganda by the israel apologists.

I am a novice on this subject compared to you...I have tried to research it,but it is so incredibly complicated, not to mention differentiating fact from partisan fiction.....however, do you feel the Palestinian people/leaders' hands are clean in this conflict? Can we excuse everything they've done as simply "reasonable self defence"? Is the US on the Israeli side for no other reason than their Jewish population and/or prejudice of the Arabian people? I know that may sound simplistic, just trying to get a handle on it and wondering why the rest of the world sees Israel as the evildoers and the US is the opposite.

rgambs

It's a shame those with expertise on the Palestinian perspective have all been banned...

BS44325

rgambs said:

It's a shame those with expertise on the Palestinian perspective have all been banned...

I don't think this guy thinks it is a shame

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/opinion/the-facebook-intifada.html?_r=0&referer=http://www.powerlineblog.com/

rgambs

Ok, not sure how that relates...

mickeyrat

BS44325 said:

rgambs said:

It's a shame those with expertise on the Palestinian perspective have all been banned...

I don't think this guy thinks it is a shame

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/opinion/the-facebook-intifada.html?_r=0&referer=http://www.powerlineblog.com/

Damn shame the tImes doesnt present something of the same sort in reference to settler on occupied Palestinians violence. Like say that family that was burned alive in the dark of night?

PJfanwillneverleave1

.

gimmesometruth27

HughFreakingDillon said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

history is written by the powerful and it is written by the winners. that is why we never get the palestinian view of anything in the media. and when we do get the palestinian side of the story, it is dismissed as propaganda by the israel apologists.

I am a novice on this subject compared to you...I have tried to research it,but it is so incredibly complicated, not to mention differentiating fact from partisan fiction.....however, do you feel the Palestinian people/leaders' hands are clean in this conflict? Can we excuse everything they've done as simply "reasonable self defence"? Is the US on the Israeli side for no other reason than their Jewish population and/or prejudice of the Arabian people? I know that may sound simplistic, just trying to get a handle on it and wondering why the rest of the world sees Israel as the evildoers and the US is the opposite.

no, it is not a complicated issue. people (not you by the way) that don't know a lot about the conflict try to inflate it and make it seem all complicated. it is not complicated at all. it boils down to one issue.

the issue is, you have one country that has been stealing land since 1967, in direct violation or international law. they have been displacing the rightful owners of the land, bulldozing their homes, burning their olive groves, depriving them water, building materials, and basic human dignity. they have killed aid workers like rachel corrie. on the land they acquire, they build jewish only settlements for hardcore, ultra right wing settlers. these people hate arabs and view arabs as below them. the presence of these settlers inflames and angers the arabs living just outside these areas. these settlers have kept the arabs from going to holy sites to pray. these settlements are in direct violation of international law as well. this country has imposed a blockade of the land and the sea. this country has killed people on boats who have tried to break the blockade to deliver medicine and building materials. this country has been sanctioned by the UN on multiple occasions, only to have it vetoed, most often by the united states. everything i have stated has been posted on here dozens of times. when you look at it as purely a humanitarian issue, one country is guilty. when you look at it in the eyes of international law, one country is guilty. so you see, it is a very simple issue.

the palestinan leaders do not have clean hands. they have the incredible task of trying to keep their people in line while the occupation continues and it expands. the palestinians have lost faith in the international community. they have lost hope. and what happens when a people lose hope? they act out the way some of the palestinians have done. they fire rockets. they throw stones at settlers. they commit suicide by idf. these people have lost hope and the vast majority of the attacks are in direct result of the occupation. they fire rockets because they know that israel will respond with overwhelming force, and that use of force will become a world wide front page story. at this point, i think that is the only strategy they have. the longer they can keep the conflict in the news, the harder it is for the rest of the world, especially americans to ignore. the palestinan attacks are a symptom of the occupation, not the cause of it.

the rest of the world sees the israeli government as criminal. the americans give them billions of dollars a year in military aid. americans do this because they need a friendly foothold in the region. at some point, america will be unable to excuse and defend the occupation any longer.

gimmesometruth27

rgambs said:

It's a shame those with expertise on the Palestinian perspective have all been banned...

it is not just here. it happens on forums all over the web.

PJfanwillneverleave1

gimmesometruth27 said:

rgambs said:

It's a shame those with expertise on the Palestinian perspective have all been banned...

it is not just here. it happens on forums all over the web.

I think it's because the big turd of this conflict is starting to be inedible on the rest of the public.
No one gives a fuck about this conflict and if they do it's because they are a politician.

edit - No one cares about this shit

gimmesometruth27

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

rgambs said:

It's a shame those with expertise on the Palestinian perspective have all been banned...

it is not just here. it happens on forums all over the web.

I think it's because the big turd of this conflict is starting to be inedible on the rest of the public.
No one gives a fuck about this conflict and if they do it's because they are a politician.

edit - No one cares about this shit

since when does everyone else think the way you do?

you don't give a shit. a lot of people do.

if you don't care, why do you read the thread and then bump it for no other reason than to voice the fact that you don't care?

yosi

A very interesting interview with George Deek, a Christian Arab Israeli diplomat. He has a unique perspective, and really speaks to many of the subtleties and complexities of the Israeli state and the Israeli-Arab conflict. I'm sure you'll all hate it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXD2C6r564o

HughFreakingDillon

gimmesometruth27 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

history is written by the powerful and it is written by the winners. that is why we never get the palestinian view of anything in the media. and when we do get the palestinian side of the story, it is dismissed as propaganda by the israel apologists.

I am a novice on this subject compared to you...I have tried to research it,but it is so incredibly complicated, not to mention differentiating fact from partisan fiction.....however, do you feel the Palestinian people/leaders' hands are clean in this conflict? Can we excuse everything they've done as simply "reasonable self defence"? Is the US on the Israeli side for no other reason than their Jewish population and/or prejudice of the Arabian people? I know that may sound simplistic, just trying to get a handle on it and wondering why the rest of the world sees Israel as the evildoers and the US is the opposite.

no, it is not a complicated issue. people (not you by the way) that don't know a lot about the conflict try to inflate it and make it seem all complicated. it is not complicated at all. it boils down to one issue.

the issue is, you have one country that has been stealing land since 1967, in direct violation or international law. they have been displacing the rightful owners of the land, bulldozing their homes, burning their olive groves, depriving them water, building materials, and basic human dignity. they have killed aid workers like rachel corrie. on the land they acquire, they build jewish only settlements for hardcore, ultra right wing settlers. these people hate arabs and view arabs as below them. the presence of these settlers inflames and angers the arabs living just outside these areas. these settlers have kept the arabs from going to holy sites to pray. these settlements are in direct violation of international law as well. this country has imposed a blockade of the land and the sea. this country has killed people on boats who have tried to break the blockade to deliver medicine and building materials. this country has been sanctioned by the UN on multiple occasions, only to have it vetoed, most often by the united states. everything i have stated has been posted on here dozens of times. when you look at it as purely a humanitarian issue, one country is guilty. when you look at it in the eyes of international law, one country is guilty. so you see, it is a very simple issue.

the palestinan leaders do not have clean hands. they have the incredible task of trying to keep their people in line while the occupation continues and it expands. the palestinians have lost faith in the international community. they have lost hope. and what happens when a people lose hope? they act out the way some of the palestinians have done. they fire rockets. they throw stones at settlers. they commit suicide by idf. these people have lost hope and the vast majority of the attacks are in direct result of the occupation. they fire rockets because they know that israel will respond with overwhelming force, and that use of force will become a world wide front page story. at this point, i think that is the only strategy they have. the longer they can keep the conflict in the news, the harder it is for the rest of the world, especially americans to ignore. the palestinan attacks are a symptom of the occupation, not the cause of it.

the rest of the world sees the israeli government as criminal. the americans give them billions of dollars a year in military aid. americans do this because they need a friendly foothold in the region. at some point, america will be unable to excuse and defend the occupation any longer.

ok, I do understand the post-1967 border issue. however, who is to know who is historically the true owner of the land? from everything I've read, both sides have a reasonable claim to it.

sorry if I'm making you rehash things that have been said here, gimme. I'm currently in over my head on this one, just trying to keep afloat! LOL

mickeyrat

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2015/11/haram-al-sharif-palestinians-jerusalem-intifada-151101102056252.html

PJ_Soul

gimmesometruth27 said:

mickeyrat said:

Someone care to explain to me how this is in anyway helpful or a path to peace?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/10/21/netanyahu-says-palestinian-gave-hitler-idea-for-the-holocaust/?tid=sm_fb

when all else fails, rewrite history.

Heh. Yeah, well.... Netanyahu doesn't have the world's best interests in mind, nor the best interests of the Israeli people. Clearly. I'm surprised some smart Israeli hasn't assassinated him by now (not that I'm advocating it). The Israeli people must be quite brainwashed at this point or something, because it seems like they don't really like him, but keep standing behind him anyway. I suppose out of fear? Same reason Americans reelected Bush I figure... People don't like to change leaders during a war (because their leader convinces them that they need him).

JWPearl

this is really sad to me :(

PJfanwillneverleave1

gimmesometruth27 said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

rgambs said:

It's a shame those with expertise on the Palestinian perspective have all been banned...

it is not just here. it happens on forums all over the web.

I think it's because the big turd of this conflict is starting to be inedible on the rest of the public.
No one gives a fuck about this conflict and if they do it's because they are a politician.

edit - No one cares about this shit

since when does everyone else think the way you do?

you don't give a shit. a lot of people do.

if you don't care, why do you read the thread and then bump it for no other reason than to voice the fact that you don't care?

.

mickeyrat

Its not about religion.

PJ_Soul

mickeyrat said:

Its not about religion.

I think religion has a fair bit to do with the mindset that's embedded, both with the leaders and the citizens on both sides. It's not the only thing it's about. But it's definitely a factor.

HughFreakingDillon

isn't the whole claim to the land on Israel's side ALL about it being the holy land?

callen

rr165892 said:

Your always solid.I didn't think you were.Cheers buddy!

Get a freakin room.