"You say the problem is occupation? There has never been a nation called Palestine. Ever. The Ottoman Turks ruled this area for approximately 400 years, until World War I. After World War I, after the San Remo conference of 1920, the League of Nations was formed, and it wrote the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine in July 1922, giving Great Britain control over the mandate. I recommend you read this document." You also claimed that, "It recognizes the historic connection of the Jewish people with the land of Palestine, which is a crucial point that Palestinian Arab leaders emphatically deny. The Mandate called for the re-establishment of the Jewish national home in Palestine." True it did. But you failed to mention that it also guaranteed the rights of the current inhabitants:
The Palestine Mandate
The Council of the League of Nations:
Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them; and
Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and
Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and
Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and
Whereas the mandate in respect of Palestine has been formulated in the following terms and submitted to the Council of the League for approval; and
Whereas His Britannic Majesty has accepted the mandate in respect of Palestine and undertaken to exercise it on behalf of the League of Nations in conformity with the following provisions; and
Whereas by the afore-mentioned Article 22 (paragraph 8), it is provided that the degree of authority, control or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory, not having been previously agreed upon by the Members of the League, shall be explicitly defined by the Council of the League Of Nations;
confirming the said Mandate, defines its terms as follows:
ART. 2.
The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
ART. 25.
In the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined, the Mandatory shall be entitled, with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as he may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions, and to make such provision for the administration of the territories as he may consider suitable to those conditions, provided that no action shall be taken which is inconsistent with the provisions of Articles 15, 16 and 18.
ART. 15.
The Mandatory shall see that complete freedom of conscience and the free exercise of all forms of worship, subject only to the maintenance of public order and morals, are ensured to all. No discrimination of any kind shall be made between the inhabitants of Palestine on the ground of race, religion or language. No person shall be excluded from Palestine on the sole ground of his religious belief.
The right of each community to maintain its own schools for the education of its own members in its own language, while conforming to such educational requirements of a general nature as the Administration may impose, shall not be denied or impaired.
ART. 16.
The Mandatory shall be responsible for exercising such supervision over religious or eleemosynary bodies of all faiths in Palestine as may be required for the maintenance of public order and good government. Subject to such supervision, no measures shall be taken in Palestine to obstruct or interfere with the enterprise of such bodies or to discriminate against any representative or member of them on the ground of his religion or nationality.
ART. 18.
The Mandatory shall see that there is no discrimination in Palestine against the nationals of any State Member of the League of Nations (including companies incorporated under its laws) as compared with those of the Mandatory or of any foreign State in matters concerning taxation, commerce or navigation, the exercise of industries or professions, or in the treatment of merchant vessels or civil aircraft. Similarly, there shall be no discrimination in Palestine against goods originating in or destined for any of the said States, and there shall be freedom of transit under equitable conditions across the mandated area.
Subject as aforesaid and to the other provisions of this mandate, the Administration of Palestine may, on the advice of the Mandatory, impose such taxes and customs duties as it may consider necessary, and take such steps as it may think best to promote the development of the natural resources of the country and to safeguard the interests of the population. It may also, on the advice of the Mandatory, conclude a special customs agreement with any State the territory of which in 1914 was wholly included in Asiatic Turkey or Arabia.
So, while you reference Article 25, you fail to mention the other provisions that shouldn't be violated, Articles 15, 16 and 18. But I would also ask why you only go as far back as 410 years ago in making your argument? Is it because doing so bolsters the Zionist position that you're espousing? Your argument is completely one sided, no mention of the rights of Arabs, Palestinians or others who already occupied the land that was to be turned into a Jewish State upon imposition by western powers.
You also claimed, "Palestinian Arabs perpetrated massacres of Jews on the pretext that the Jews were trying to take over the Temple Mount—in 1929. Palestinian Arabs conducted a campaign of terror between 1936 and 1939, and the British acquiesced by severely restricting Jews from entering Palestine shortly before Hitler proceeded with the Final Solution."
However, a different narrative provided by David Ben-Gurion exists:
Arab resistance to Pre-Israeli Zionism
“In 1936-9, the Palestinian Arabs attempted a nationalist revolt... David Ben-Gurion, eminently a realist, recognized its nature. In internal discussion, he noted that ‘in our political argument abroad, we minimize Arab opposition to us,’ but he urged, ‘let us not ignore the truth among ourselves.’ The truth was that ‘politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country, while we are still outside’... The revolt was crushed by the British, with considerable brutality.” Noam Chomsky, “The Fateful Triangle.”
You also stated, "The British Peel Commission proposed in 1937 dividing the land between Jews and Arabs, and the Arabs rejected that offer." The Arabs didn't "reject the offer." Rather the Peel Commission reported that the division of the land was untenable and the recommendations were rejected by the British government:
Peel Commission, in full Royal Commission of Inquiry to Palestine, Peel Commission: partition plan proposed by the Peel Commission report, 1937 [Credit: Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.]group headed by Lord Robert Peel, appointed in 1936 by the British government to investigate the causes of unrest among Palestinian Arabs and Jews.
Discontent in Palestine intensified after 1920, when the Conference of San Remo awarded the British government a mandate to control Palestine. With its formal approval by the League of Nations in 1922, this mandate incorporated the Balfour Declaration of 1917, which provided for both the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine and the preservation of the civil and religious (but not the political or national) rights of non-Jewish Palestinian communities. Palestinian Arabs, desiring political autonomy and resenting the continued Jewish immigration into Palestine, disapproved of the mandate, and by 1936 their dissatisfaction had grown into open rebellion.
The Peel Commission published its report in July 1937. The report admitted that the mandate was unworkable because Jewish and Arab objectives in Palestine were incompatible, and it proposed that Palestine be partitioned into three zones: an Arab state, a Jewish state, and a neutral territory containing the holy places. Although the British government initially accepted these proposals, by 1938 it had recognized that such partitioning would be infeasible, and it ultimately rejected the commission’s report.
You also claim that, "In May 1967, Muslims across the Arab world demonstrated calling for the destruction of Israel. Egypt and Jordan formed a united military command, and the King of Saudi Arabia declared that the liquidation of Israel was at hand. Nasser closed the Straits of Tiran to Israel, an act of war b any definition. King Hussein of Jordan (which changed its name in 1949), shelled Jewish neighborhoods of Jerusalem despite pleas from Golda Meir that he stay out of the war. To the world’s shock, thank Heaven, Israel won the war."
While it may be true that Arabs demonstrated for the destruction of Israel, Israel was the aggressor in the war of 1967, which can only be described as a war of choice and a land grab:
The 1967 War and the Israeli Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza
Did the Egyptians actually start the 1967 war, as Israel originally claimed?
“The former Commander of the Air Force, General Ezer Weitzman, regarded as a hawk, stated that there was ‘no threat of destruction’ but that the attack on Egypt, Jordan and Syria was nevertheless justified so that Israel could ‘exist according the scale, spirit, and quality she now embodies.’...Menahem Begin had the following remarks to make: ‘In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.’“ Noam Chomsky, “The Fateful Triangle.”
Was the 1967 war defenisve? — continued
“I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it.” Yitzhak Rabin, Israel’s Chief of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68
Moshe Dayan posthumously speaks out on the Golan Heights
“Moshe Dayan, the celebrated commander who, as Defense Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the Golan...[said] many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland...[Dayan stated] ‘They didn’t even try to hide their greed for the land...We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn’t possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn’t shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot.
And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that’s how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us.’” The New York Times, May 11, 1997
The history of Israeli expansionism
“The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan; one does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today. But the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concern of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them.” David Ben-Gurion, in 1936, quoted in Noam Chomsky, “The Fateful Triangle.”
Expansionism — continued
“The main danger which Israel, as a ‘Jewish state’, poses to its own people, to other Jews and to its neighbors, is its ideologically motivated pursuit of territorial expansion and the inevitable series of wars resulting from this aim...No zionist politician has ever repudiated Ben-Gurion’s idea that Israeli policies must be based (within the limits of practical considerations) on the restoration of Biblical borders as the borders of the Jewish state.” Israeli professor, Israel Shahak, “Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of 3000 Years.”
Expansionism — continued
In Israeli Prime Minister Moshe Sharatt’s personal diaries, there is an excerpt from May of 1955 in which he quotes Moshe Dayan as follows: “[Israel] must see the sword as the main, if not the only, instrument with which to keep its morale high and to retain its moral tension. Toward this end it may, no — it must — invent dangers, and to do this it must adopt the method of provocation-and-revenge...And above all — let us hope for a new war with the Arab countries, so that we may finally get rid of our troubles and acquire our space.” Quoted in Livia Rokach, “Israel’s Sacred Terrorism.”
But wasn’t the occupation of Arab lands necessary to protect Israel’s security?
“Senator [J.William Fulbright] proposed in 1970 that America should guarantee Israel’s security in a formal treaty, protecting her with armed forces if necessary. In return, Israel would retire to the borders of 1967. The UN Security Council would guarantee this arrangement, and thereby bring the Soviet Union — then a supplier of arms and political aid to the Arabs — into compliance. As Israeli troops were withdrawn from the Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank they would be replaced by a UN peacekeeping force. Israel would agree to accept a certain number of Palestinians and the rest would be settled in a Palestinian state outside Israel.
“The plan drew favorable editorial support in the United States. The proposal, however, was flatly rejected by Israel. ‘The whole affair disgusted Fulbright,’ writes [his biographer Randall] Woods. ‘The Israelis were not even willing to act in their own self-interest.’” Allan Brownfield in “Issues of the American Council for Judaism.” Fall 1997.[Ed.—This was one of many such proposals]
What happened after the 1967 war ended?
“In violation of international law, Israel has confiscated over 52 percent of the land in the West Bank and 30 percent of the Gaza Strip for military use or for settlement by Jewish civilians...From 1967 to 1982, Israel’s military government demolished 1,338 Palestinian homes on the West Bank. Over this period, more than 300,000 Palestinians were detained without trial for various periods by Israeli security forces. “Intifada: The Palestinian Uprising Against Israeli Occupation,” ed. Lockman and Beinin.
Please ask yourself one question: What would happen if Zionists would say – the Palestinians have a historic connection to this land, Palestine has a right to exist as the permanent national Palestinian homeland, the murder of Palestinian and Arab men, women and children in disproportionate military responses to attacks or suicide bombings is repugnant, and Jews should strive to live at peace with their Arab and Palestinian neighbors. Imagine if a Jewish leader actually said that to his people. Just imagine . . .
I don't have the time nor inclination to fact check every word of your made up shit in your head. The bottom line for me is this: Israel is a nuclear power, enjoys close to $3.5 billion in US aid every year and continues to expand their settlements and oppress the Palestinian people. And no, they're not a "democracy" in the middle east as evidenced by the following:
JERUSALEM – An Israeli proposal that could potentially strip tens of thousands of Palestinians in Jerusalem of their residency rights has sent shudders through the targeted Arab neighborhoods — areas that were dumped outside Israel's separation barrier a decade ago, even though they are within the city's boundaries.
The government's review of the status of these neighborhoods, home to tens of thousands of people, illustrates the fragile position of Palestinians in a city where they have long suffered discrimination and are caught between the pragmatic conveniences of living under Israeli control and the loyalties to the Palestinian cause.
With few exceptions, Jerusalem's Palestinians are not Israeli citizens, and instead hold residency status that can be revoked. Removing residency rights en masse appears highly unlikely due to legal hurdles and domestic and international opposition. But government critics said the fact that it is even being discussed sent an ominous message to Palestinians.
RAMALLAH, West Bank — Israeli forces on Saturday destroyed the family homes of three Palestinian men charged with carrying out a drive-by shooting last month that killed a couple in front of their four children, and the forces also demolished the home of a man accused of fatally shooting an Israeli in June.
It was the most sweeping use of a controversial antiterrorism measure since a wave of unrest escalated last month, mostly through demonstrations, stabbing attacks against Israeli soldiers and civilians and attempts to hit Israelis with vehicles.
Israel’s Supreme Court approved the demolitions, all in the West Bank, on Thursday after days of debate. Hawkish Israeli politicians and bereaved relatives had accused the court of dragging its feet after it delayed a decision on Oct. 30. An Israeli human rights group, HaMoked, lost an appeal trying to prevent the demolitions.
When will Israel grow up and stop being the victim? Probably never because we both know their long range goal is the elimination of the Palestinians on "Jewish" land.
And for someone who was outraged about another's poster's comment that appeared to advocate the assassination of Bibi, where's your outrage for the rabbi who advocated for the death of Rabin and Bibi's appointment who made a equally disturbing comment about the president of Israel?
What upset many Israelis most was the way Mr. Baratz lashed out at President Rivlin, calling him “a marginal figure” unworthy of assassination, and suggesting that he “could be sent in a paraglider” into Syria, where the Islamic State would retreat if only Israel would take him back.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Denying medical services? Literally thousands of Palestinians are treated in Israeli hospitals on a daily basis, including terrorists themselves after attacks. The family of Hamas and Fatah leadership have been treated in Israeli hospitals. Meanwhile, a Red Crescent ambulance recently stopped by an attack scene and drove away when they realized the victims were Jews.
Denying medical services? Literally thousands of Palestinians are treated in Israeli hospitals on a daily basis, including terrorists themselves after attacks. The family of Hamas and Fatah leadership have been treated in Israeli hospitals. Meanwhile, a Red Crescent ambulance recently stopped by an attack scene and drove away when they realized the victims were Jews.
Yes, both sides are certainly completely fucked up. No point in playing he said/she said when it comes to this war; there can be no real winner in that debate.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,700
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,700
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Did you buy one so that you could dress your GI Joe in an IDF uniform and have it shoot the rock throwing doll?
But why not post drivel like this when there are more weighty issues to consider? It appears Israel may be buying ISIS oil. How's that for an ally to the tune of $3.4BB per year. But then again, when it comes to Israel's national security, there are no ethics. See USS Liberty, attack; Also, Pollard, John, recruitment of, hero worship of and Israel.
Multiple reports claim that Israel is the top purchaser of smuggled ISIS oil
ISIS oil is transported to Israel via Turkey, according to reports
Citing multiple sources, the Israeli business press are now reporting that Israel is the main recipient of ISIS oil:
Kurdish and Turkish smugglers are transporting oil from ISIS controlled territory in Syria and Iraq and selling it to Israel, according to several reports in the Arab and Russian media. An estimated 20,000-40,000 barrels of oil are produced daily in ISIS controlled territory generating $1-1.5 million daily profit for the terrorist organization.
The oil is extracted from Dir A-Zur in Syria and two fields in Iraq and transported to the Kurdish city of Zakhu in a triangle of land near the borders of Syria, Iraq and Turkey. Israeli and Turkish mediators come to the city and when prices are agreed, the oil is smuggled to the Turkish city of Silop marked as originating from Kurdish regions of Iraq and sold for $15-18 per barrel (WTI and Brent Crude currently sell for $41 and $45 per barrel) to the Israeli mediator, a man in his 50s with dual Greek-Israeli citizenship known as Dr. Farid. He transports the oil via several Turkish ports and then onto other ports, with Israel among the main destinations.
In August, the “Financial Times” reported that Israel obtained 75% of its oil supplies from Iraqi Kurdistan. More than a third of such exports go through the port of Ceyhan, which the FT describe as a “potential gateway for ISIS-smuggled crude.”
Pathetic that at this point in the game we're still saying 'that story is starting to gain traction'. Indy media has been saying this since ISIS was born, and I've been saying it here in the Syria threads and other ME related threads since day one. Israel and Turkey both buying oil from ISIS. Israel treating 'rebels' in Golan. Turkey is allowing flow of supplies through their border. 'Rebels' trained by US in Jordan. Funding from Saudi Arabia. All widely known for over a year....and widely dismissed/ignored (or at least not acknowledged) on this board and in the lamestream. Still mostly ignored after the f'n leader of Russia gives the 'for dummies' version at an international conference. If it's 'starting to gain traction', this situation is a perfect examples of how pathetic our media is, and how much we let our allies get away with, and points to our true intentions in the conflict....
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Pathetic that at this point in the game we're still saying 'that story is starting to gain traction'. Indy media has been saying this since ISIS was born, and I've been saying it here in the Syria threads and other ME related threads since day one. Israel and Turkey both buying oil from ISIS. Israel treating 'rebels' in Golan. Turkey is allowing flow of supplies through their border. 'Rebels' trained by US in Jordan. Funding from Saudi Arabia. All widely known for over a year....and widely dismissed/ignored (or at least not acknowledged) on this board and in the lamestream. Still mostly ignored after the f'n leader of Russia gives the 'for dummies' version at an international conference. If it's 'starting to gain traction', this situation is a perfect examples of how pathetic our media is, and how much we let our allies get away with, and points to our true intentions in the conflict....
Did you buy one so that you could dress your GI Joe in an IDF uniform and have it shoot the rock throwing doll?
But why not post drivel like this when there are more weighty issues to consider? It appears Israel may be buying ISIS oil. How's that for an ally to the tune of $3.4BB per year. But then again, when it comes to Israel's national security, there are no ethics. See USS Liberty, attack; Also, Pollard, John, recruitment of, hero worship of and Israel.
Multiple reports claim that Israel is the top purchaser of smuggled ISIS oil
ISIS oil is transported to Israel via Turkey, according to reports
Citing multiple sources, the Israeli business press are now reporting that Israel is the main recipient of ISIS oil:
Kurdish and Turkish smugglers are transporting oil from ISIS controlled territory in Syria and Iraq and selling it to Israel, according to several reports in the Arab and Russian media. An estimated 20,000-40,000 barrels of oil are produced daily in ISIS controlled territory generating $1-1.5 million daily profit for the terrorist organization.
The oil is extracted from Dir A-Zur in Syria and two fields in Iraq and transported to the Kurdish city of Zakhu in a triangle of land near the borders of Syria, Iraq and Turkey. Israeli and Turkish mediators come to the city and when prices are agreed, the oil is smuggled to the Turkish city of Silop marked as originating from Kurdish regions of Iraq and sold for $15-18 per barrel (WTI and Brent Crude currently sell for $41 and $45 per barrel) to the Israeli mediator, a man in his 50s with dual Greek-Israeli citizenship known as Dr. Farid. He transports the oil via several Turkish ports and then onto other ports, with Israel among the main destinations.
In August, the “Financial Times” reported that Israel obtained 75% of its oil supplies from Iraqi Kurdistan. More than a third of such exports go through the port of Ceyhan, which the FT describe as a “potential gateway for ISIS-smuggled crude.”
Over a week and the sound of silence is deafening. Nothing but crickets. Must be true then? Seems Israel has a lot of blood on their hands from the attacks in Paris. But hey, what's a few more dead civilians when you can buy oil for pennies on the dollar, strengthen your aparthied regime, exploit the region's conflicts to your advantage and expand illegal settlements? And some would want you to believe the BDS movement bears responsibility for the attack on the Bataclan Music Hall. Chirp, chirp, chirp, chirp.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I wish EV would take a stand on this topic instead of singing Imagine and wishing it all away.... There is zero doubt in my mind that his Milton Keynes rant was about Israel...the reaction of Israel's supporters and media confirmed as much. His backpedal afterward (saying he is anti-war and referencing other US conflicts) makes me wonder if the backlash had him concerned for his safety......or if there is dissent within the band on the topic....or if his bandmates just want him not to get involved. His seemingly burgeoning friendship with Roger Waters, the fact PJ hasn't played there and has not replied to the campaigns to play there make me think he has taken a side...why won't he speak up?
The 'hidden hand' backdoor government policy fucks that brought us "Which Path to Persia" and all their other democratic slew-footing, have now set their sights on BDS....
Last June, Haim Saban and Sheldon Adelson held a secret summit in Las Vegas to come up with ways of fighting the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions campaign on college campuses. They raised a reported $50 million to do so.
Well now that secret process seems to have moved on to far more influential turf; Washington, D.C., and a leading liberal thinktank: last week the Brookings Institution held a secret panel on BDS, sponsored by Haim Saban. By all appearances, the intent of the panel was to counter the BDS campaign.
The panel took place during the weekend-long annual Saban Forum, which brings Israeli leaders and US leaders together to talk about “the future for Israelis and Palestinians”–without any Palestinians in attendance. The BDS panel was among many meetings December 4-6 not mentioned on the Saban Forum’s public agenda.
On Saturday night, journalist Jeffrey Goldberg said at a public panel: “This morning at the BDS panel–” But he was promptly hushed.
“Which was off the record,” a woman’s voice says; my guess is it’s the same voice who just introduced Goldberg, Tamara Cofman Wittes, the conference leader.
Goldberg jokingly called the BDS panel the “Dimona” of panels, a reference to Israel’s secret nuclear program, and reported on its dire mood:
“If the BDS panel took place, there would have been a feeling that the Israeli participant in the panel was the object of a lot of yearning and anxiety from some Americans who felt as if Israel was not paying sufficient attention to what’s going on on campuses and beyond.”
Goldberg wasn’t the only journalist at the panel. Chemi Shalev of Haaretz was there and referred elliptically to it in print when he described the mood of the Saban forum as being one of “anxiety and anguish” on the part of Americans.
I asked Shalev why he had agreed to treat a newsworthy panel as off the record, and I said I found it unseemly that Brookings was performing an “AIPAC-like function” in fighting the BDS movement, and doing so in secret. He responded to me:
“The Saban inviters lay down the ground rules for the entire forum and one can either choose to accept and attend or reject and not attend. I chose the former… I don’t agree with characterization of what was going on at Saban, re ‘AIPAC like function’; in fact, I would say the opposite: criticism of Israeli government and deep frustration with its policies overwhelmingly outstripped praise or support, as I myself have written.”
When I asked Shalev whether any supporter of BDS was on the panel, he declined to answer, but said my guess on that score was probably right. That means no one was advocating for BDS.
I wrote to Wittes, director of Brookings Center for Middle East Policy, and to a Brookings spokesperson to ask who was on the panel and what its title was, and if any advocates for BDS were on the panel. Neither responded to my questions.
Brookings would surely defend the secret panel by saying it’s part of a largely off-the-record conference among Israeli and American leaders. Shalev described the gathering in his article as a meeting of “[Haim] Saban’s American contingent of Brookings scholars, former Democratic administration officials and members of Congress” and an “Israeli delegation of mainstream Israeli politicians, journalists and businessmen.”
Americans should be asking why such a conference is taking place behind closed doors at a leading liberal thinktank– and why it’s tackling BDS, which Israeli leaders have termed an “existential” threat to Israel.
The gathering is a reflection of the power of the Israel lobby in Washington. Saban successfully pressured President Obama to stop putting pressure on Israel over settlements, by coming out for the president in 2012 and giving a Democratic SuperPAC a $1 million donation. Both Wittes and Goldberg referred affectionately to Israeli politicians Yitzhak Herzog– who opposed the Iran Deal– and Avigdor Lieberman–who called for the transfer of Palestinians– by their nicknames, “Boogie” and “Yvet.”
In the Saban Forum transcript of Goldberg’s public comments on Saturday night (the audio is more inclusive), Goldberg brought up the BDS panel as evidence of the “pervasive unease on the part of many Americans” about Israel’s conduct: “trying to warn their Israeli friends that a train is coming barreling down the tracks” and they’re just standing there.
Many of those Americans are Jewish Zionists. Shalev reported that the American group at the conference were reassured by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s statement to the conference that he still favored the “two-state solution.” That might be hypocritical, Shalev observed, but it’s how the game works:
Armed with this facade, American Jews can lobby the administration to support Israel, protest against unwarranted bias in Europe and the United Nations, and, most importantly, look themselves in the mirror.
Brookings might defend a secret panel on BDS by pointing out that countless US politicians are opposing BDS. Many Republicans have come out against BDS. And in her speech to the Saban conference the day after the BDS panel, Hillary Clinton asserted — laughably– that BDS is hurting the American ability to counter terrorism in the Middle East, because it is hurting our closest ally in the fight against extremism. She was surely pandering to Haim Saban. Clinton wrote a letter to Saban last summer that she promptly published, promising to work with Republican politicians to oppose BDS.
I find the whole matter unseemly. BDS is one of the chief threats to Israel, Netanyahu has said. So a leading liberal American thinktank is aligning itself with Israel on that battle? And if it is, why can’t it do so openly? One can fairly ask if Saban’s largesse is dictating the Brookings position, and that of the Democratic Party too.
BDS is clearly coming on strong despite all these efforts. At that event on December 5, Goldberg went on about the BDS panel that dare not speak its name, and related an anecdote from his daughter’s college campus.
Goldberg: Our oldest daughter is a freshman at a liberal arts college in New England, a pretty well-known school. And she reports to us that J Street at that street represents the Zionist right–”
[Haim Saban seems to break in on Goldberg]
“I wish it were funny, Haim. I wish it were funny. I mean, it’s funny, but it’s not funny. It could be both funny and not funny at the same time. Have you ever heard of a tragic comedy? You live in Hollywood. She reports that the largest Jewish organization — 25 percent of this campus is Jewish — the largest Jewish organization is a group called Jewish Voice for Peace, which is an Orwellian name for a group that opposes Israeli’s existence.
HERZOG: We saw a huge write up it in Israel. It’s a huge BDS group.
Goldberg said that sentiment toward Israel in the American Jewish comunity was “radically shifting,” and asked Lieberman if he cared. Lieberman said, “To speak frankly, I don’t care.” He called for better hasbara and Zionist education.
Later a woman in the audience, evidently Jewish, implored Lieberman to care.
you are also missing something if you think that any amount of education is going to change the fact that the millennials today do not relate to the narrative that you’re expressing. And so my question for you is simple. Do you care if we lose the young Jews in the diaspora?
Jewish Voice for Peace is surely the fastest-growing Jewish group in the country and the largest Jewish peace and justice organization in the US. It has 200,000 supporters. It has no place at Brookings– and it wasn’t invited to the Haaretz New Israel Fund conference last weekend either.
"No country would accept the threat against its civilian population that these rockets and tunnels present to Israeli population centres. Members of the High Level Military Group, some of whom had never visited the country prior to our fact-finding visits, were united in our view that Israel’s efforts were entirely necessary and justified in the defence of that country’s national security.
We can further be categorically clear that Israel’s conduct in the 2014 Gaza Conflict met and in some respects exceeded the highest standards we set for our own nations’ militaries. It is our view that Israel fought an exemplary campaign, adequately conceived with appropriately limited objectives, displaying both a very high level of operational capability as well as a total commitment to the Law of Armed Conflict. The IDF not only met its obligations under the Law of Armed Conflict, but often exceeded these on the battlefield at significant tactical cost, as well as in the humanitarian relief efforts that accompanied its operation."
There you have it folks
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,700
Sounds like they focused exclusively on interviews and briefing from Israel and the IDF. Reads as apologist or excuse making to me.
No doubt Hamas acts in ways detrimental to their own people, as many can admit in this conflict, but to deny Israel any culpability is irresponsible on its face.
It needs noted that the UN has yet to issue its conclusions based on this report and others. So this isn't the final word.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,700
edited December 2015
Copied from the bottom of the page from the link provided above.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,700
edited December 2015
I was in error above. Turns out there was a final assessment given by teh UN.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Always check the BS sources, they're used to obsfucate and detract from the truth, all in support of a hidden agenda. How much ISIS oil did Israel buy today? With my tax dollars?
So this isn't really an independent review by an outside party.
I'm sorry but any thorough study of the Gaza conflict would ultimately require Israel's help. That is how you do a "fact finding" mission. This document shows a deep investigation by international experts who came to conclusions on their own. The bio of every individual in the group is attached.
From the foreward:
"We relied on well respected professionals chosen for their extensive relevant experience. They drew their own conclusions contained in this report, with FoII’s sole responsibility being to make the necessary means available to the High Level Military Group to conduct its research"
But if you would like to dismiss it out of hand as propaganda be my guest. From here on out I shall dismiss all other points as being written by "Not Friends of Israel".
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,700
So this isn't really an independent review by an outside party.
I'm sorry but any thorough study of the Gaza conflict would ultimately require Israel's help. That is how you do a "fact finding" mission. This document shows a deep investigation by international experts who came to conclusions on their own. The bio of every individual in the group is attached.
From the foreward:
"We relied on well respected professionals chosen for their extensive relevant experience. They drew their own conclusions contained in this report, with FoII’s sole responsibility being to make the necessary means available to the High Level Military Group to conduct its research"
But if you would like to dismiss it out of hand as propaganda be my guest. From here on out I shall dismiss all other points as being written by "Not Friends of Israel".
I read it. You see what I said in the post prior to the quoted one. That was before I looked through more thoroughly that web site linked.
Must be a reason why Israel would be "open" with this group but not the U.N.. the two reports are striking in the differences of the final conclusions.
I trust the U.N. report more. Seems to show a more balanced assessment in calling out BOTH sides. Thats just me though I guess.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
The Palestine Mandate
The Council of the League of Nations:
Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them; and
Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and
Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and
Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and
Whereas the mandate in respect of Palestine has been formulated in the following terms and submitted to the Council of the League for approval; and
Whereas His Britannic Majesty has accepted the mandate in respect of Palestine and undertaken to exercise it on behalf of the League of Nations in conformity with the following provisions; and
Whereas by the afore-mentioned Article 22 (paragraph 8), it is provided that the degree of authority, control or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory, not having been previously agreed upon by the Members of the League, shall be explicitly defined by the Council of the League Of Nations;
confirming the said Mandate, defines its terms as follows:
ART. 2.
The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
ART. 25.
In the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined, the Mandatory shall be entitled, with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as he may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions, and to make such provision for the administration of the territories as he may consider suitable to those conditions, provided that no action shall be taken which is inconsistent with the provisions of Articles 15, 16 and 18.
ART. 15.
The Mandatory shall see that complete freedom of conscience and the free exercise of all forms of worship, subject only to the maintenance of public order and morals, are ensured to all. No discrimination of any kind shall be made between the inhabitants of Palestine on the ground of race, religion or language. No person shall be excluded from Palestine on the sole ground of his religious belief.
The right of each community to maintain its own schools for the education of its own members in its own language, while conforming to such educational requirements of a general nature as the Administration may impose, shall not be denied or impaired.
ART. 16.
The Mandatory shall be responsible for exercising such supervision over religious or eleemosynary bodies of all faiths in Palestine as may be required for the maintenance of public order and good government. Subject to such supervision, no measures shall be taken in Palestine to obstruct or interfere with the enterprise of such bodies or to discriminate against any representative or member of them on the ground of his religion or nationality.
ART. 18.
The Mandatory shall see that there is no discrimination in Palestine against the nationals of any State Member of the League of Nations (including companies incorporated under its laws) as compared with those of the Mandatory or of any foreign State in matters concerning taxation, commerce or navigation, the exercise of industries or professions, or in the treatment of merchant vessels or civil aircraft. Similarly, there shall be no discrimination in Palestine against goods originating in or destined for any of the said States, and there shall be freedom of transit under equitable conditions across the mandated area.
Subject as aforesaid and to the other provisions of this mandate, the Administration of Palestine may, on the advice of the Mandatory, impose such taxes and customs duties as it may consider necessary, and take such steps as it may think best to promote the development of the natural resources of the country and to safeguard the interests of the population. It may also, on the advice of the Mandatory, conclude a special customs agreement with any State the territory of which in 1914 was wholly included in Asiatic Turkey or Arabia.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/palmanda.asp
So, while you reference Article 25, you fail to mention the other provisions that shouldn't be violated, Articles 15, 16 and 18. But I would also ask why you only go as far back as 410 years ago in making your argument? Is it because doing so bolsters the Zionist position that you're espousing? Your argument is completely one sided, no mention of the rights of Arabs, Palestinians or others who already occupied the land that was to be turned into a Jewish State upon imposition by western powers.
Continued
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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However, a different narrative provided by David Ben-Gurion exists:
Arab resistance to Pre-Israeli Zionism
“In 1936-9, the Palestinian Arabs attempted a nationalist revolt... David Ben-Gurion, eminently a realist, recognized its nature. In internal discussion, he noted that ‘in our political argument abroad, we minimize Arab opposition to us,’ but he urged, ‘let us not ignore the truth among ourselves.’ The truth was that ‘politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country, while we are still outside’... The revolt was crushed by the British, with considerable brutality.” Noam Chomsky, “The Fateful Triangle.”
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html
You also stated, "The British Peel Commission proposed in 1937 dividing the land between Jews and Arabs, and the Arabs rejected that offer." The Arabs didn't "reject the offer." Rather the Peel Commission reported that the division of the land was untenable and the recommendations were rejected by the British government:
Peel Commission, in full Royal Commission of Inquiry to Palestine, Peel Commission: partition plan proposed by the Peel Commission report, 1937 [Credit: Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.]group headed by Lord Robert Peel, appointed in 1936 by the British government to investigate the causes of unrest among Palestinian Arabs and Jews.
Discontent in Palestine intensified after 1920, when the Conference of San Remo awarded the British government a mandate to control Palestine. With its formal approval by the League of Nations in 1922, this mandate incorporated the Balfour Declaration of 1917, which provided for both the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine and the preservation of the civil and religious (but not the political or national) rights of non-Jewish Palestinian communities. Palestinian Arabs, desiring political autonomy and resenting the continued Jewish immigration into Palestine, disapproved of the mandate, and by 1936 their dissatisfaction had grown into open rebellion.
The Peel Commission published its report in July 1937. The report admitted that the mandate was unworkable because Jewish and Arab objectives in Palestine were incompatible, and it proposed that Palestine be partitioned into three zones: an Arab state, a Jewish state, and a neutral territory containing the holy places. Although the British government initially accepted these proposals, by 1938 it had recognized that such partitioning would be infeasible, and it ultimately rejected the commission’s report.
http://www.britannica.com/event/Peel-Commission
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While it may be true that Arabs demonstrated for the destruction of Israel, Israel was the aggressor in the war of 1967, which can only be described as a war of choice and a land grab:
The 1967 War and the Israeli Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza
Did the Egyptians actually start the 1967 war, as Israel originally claimed?
“The former Commander of the Air Force, General Ezer Weitzman, regarded as a hawk, stated that there was ‘no threat of destruction’ but that the attack on Egypt, Jordan and Syria was nevertheless justified so that Israel could ‘exist according the scale, spirit, and quality she now embodies.’...Menahem Begin had the following remarks to make: ‘In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.’“ Noam Chomsky, “The Fateful Triangle.”
Was the 1967 war defenisve? — continued
“I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it.” Yitzhak Rabin, Israel’s Chief of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68
Moshe Dayan posthumously speaks out on the Golan Heights
“Moshe Dayan, the celebrated commander who, as Defense Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the Golan...[said] many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland...[Dayan stated] ‘They didn’t even try to hide their greed for the land...We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn’t possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn’t shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot.
And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that’s how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us.’” The New York Times, May 11, 1997
The history of Israeli expansionism
“The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan; one does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today. But the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concern of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them.” David Ben-Gurion, in 1936, quoted in Noam Chomsky, “The Fateful Triangle.”
Expansionism — continued
“The main danger which Israel, as a ‘Jewish state’, poses to its own people, to other Jews and to its neighbors, is its ideologically motivated pursuit of territorial expansion and the inevitable series of wars resulting from this aim...No zionist politician has ever repudiated Ben-Gurion’s idea that Israeli policies must be based (within the limits of practical considerations) on the restoration of Biblical borders as the borders of the Jewish state.” Israeli professor, Israel Shahak, “Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of 3000 Years.”
Expansionism — continued
In Israeli Prime Minister Moshe Sharatt’s personal diaries, there is an excerpt from May of 1955 in which he quotes Moshe Dayan as follows: “[Israel] must see the sword as the main, if not the only, instrument with which to keep its morale high and to retain its moral tension. Toward this end it may, no — it must — invent dangers, and to do this it must adopt the method of provocation-and-revenge...And above all — let us hope for a new war with the Arab countries, so that we may finally get rid of our troubles and acquire our space.” Quoted in Livia Rokach, “Israel’s Sacred Terrorism.”
But wasn’t the occupation of Arab lands necessary to protect Israel’s security?
“Senator [J.William Fulbright] proposed in 1970 that America should guarantee Israel’s security in a formal treaty, protecting her with armed forces if necessary. In return, Israel would retire to the borders of 1967. The UN Security Council would guarantee this arrangement, and thereby bring the Soviet Union — then a supplier of arms and political aid to the Arabs — into compliance. As Israeli troops were withdrawn from the Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank they would be replaced by a UN peacekeeping force. Israel would agree to accept a certain number of Palestinians and the rest would be settled in a Palestinian state outside Israel.
“The plan drew favorable editorial support in the United States. The proposal, however, was flatly rejected by Israel. ‘The whole affair disgusted Fulbright,’ writes [his biographer Randall] Woods. ‘The Israelis were not even willing to act in their own self-interest.’” Allan Brownfield in “Issues of the American Council for Judaism.” Fall 1997.[Ed.—This was one of many such proposals]
What happened after the 1967 war ended?
“In violation of international law, Israel has confiscated over 52 percent of the land in the West Bank and 30 percent of the Gaza Strip for military use or for settlement by Jewish civilians...From 1967 to 1982, Israel’s military government demolished 1,338 Palestinian homes on the West Bank. Over this period, more than 300,000 Palestinians were detained without trial for various periods by Israeli security forces. “Intifada: The Palestinian Uprising Against Israeli Occupation,” ed. Lockman and Beinin.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html
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I don't have the time nor inclination to fact check every word of your made up shit in your head. The bottom line for me is this: Israel is a nuclear power, enjoys close to $3.5 billion in US aid every year and continues to expand their settlements and oppress the Palestinian people. And no, they're not a "democracy" in the middle east as evidenced by the following:
JERUSALEM – An Israeli proposal that could potentially strip tens of thousands of Palestinians in Jerusalem of their residency rights has sent shudders through the targeted Arab neighborhoods — areas that were dumped outside Israel's separation barrier a decade ago, even though they are within the city's boundaries.
The government's review of the status of these neighborhoods, home to tens of thousands of people, illustrates the fragile position of Palestinians in a city where they have long suffered discrimination and are caught between the pragmatic conveniences of living under Israeli control and the loyalties to the Palestinian cause.
With few exceptions, Jerusalem's Palestinians are not Israeli citizens, and instead hold residency status that can be revoked. Removing residency rights en masse appears highly unlikely due to legal hurdles and domestic and international opposition. But government critics said the fact that it is even being discussed sent an ominous message to Palestinians.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/27/israeli-residency-proposal-leaves-jerusalem-palestinians-worried-about-their/
And this:
RAMALLAH, West Bank — Israeli forces on Saturday destroyed the family homes of three Palestinian men charged with carrying out a drive-by shooting last month that killed a couple in front of their four children, and the forces also demolished the home of a man accused of fatally shooting an Israeli in June.
It was the most sweeping use of a controversial antiterrorism measure since a wave of unrest escalated last month, mostly through demonstrations, stabbing attacks against Israeli soldiers and civilians and attempts to hit Israelis with vehicles.
Israel’s Supreme Court approved the demolitions, all in the West Bank, on Thursday after days of debate. Hawkish Israeli politicians and bereaved relatives had accused the court of dragging its feet after it delayed a decision on Oct. 30. An Israeli human rights group, HaMoked, lost an appeal trying to prevent the demolitions.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/world/middleeast/israel-palestinians-home-demolitions-west-bank.html?_r=0
Some democracy, huh?
When will Israel grow up and stop being the victim? Probably never because we both know their long range goal is the elimination of the Palestinians on "Jewish" land.
And for someone who was outraged about another's poster's comment that appeared to advocate the assassination of Bibi, where's your outrage for the rabbi who advocated for the death of Rabin and Bibi's appointment who made a equally disturbing comment about the president of Israel?
What upset many Israelis most was the way Mr. Baratz lashed out at President Rivlin, calling him “a marginal figure” unworthy of assassination, and suggesting that he “could be sent in a paraglider” into Syria, where the Islamic State would retreat if only Israel would take him back.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/06/world/middleeast/ran-baratz-israel-netanyahu.html
I'm embarrassed my tax dollars support this regime.
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http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/11/19/at-least-5-dead-in-west-bank-and-tel-aviv-terrorist-attacks/
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/11/19/medical-permits-tied-to-intelligence-gathering.html
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Palestinian-ambulance-drove-by-scene-without-helping-Israeli-gunshot-victims-432955
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Pretty serious assertions.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-seizes-thousands-of-plush-rock-thrower-dolls-headed-for-pa/
Peace process should be back on any day now.
But why not post drivel like this when there are more weighty issues to consider? It appears Israel may be buying ISIS oil. How's that for an ally to the tune of $3.4BB per year. But then again, when it comes to Israel's national security, there are no ethics. See USS Liberty, attack; Also, Pollard, John, recruitment of, hero worship of and Israel.
Multiple reports claim that Israel is the top purchaser of smuggled ISIS oil
ISIS oil is transported to Israel via Turkey, according to reports
Citing multiple sources, the Israeli business press are now reporting that Israel is the main recipient of ISIS oil:
Kurdish and Turkish smugglers are transporting oil from ISIS controlled territory in Syria and Iraq and selling it to Israel, according to several reports in the Arab and Russian media. An estimated 20,000-40,000 barrels of oil are produced daily in ISIS controlled territory generating $1-1.5 million daily profit for the terrorist organization.
The oil is extracted from Dir A-Zur in Syria and two fields in Iraq and transported to the Kurdish city of Zakhu in a triangle of land near the borders of Syria, Iraq and Turkey. Israeli and Turkish mediators come to the city and when prices are agreed, the oil is smuggled to the Turkish city of Silop marked as originating from Kurdish regions of Iraq and sold for $15-18 per barrel (WTI and Brent Crude currently sell for $41 and $45 per barrel) to the Israeli mediator, a man in his 50s with dual Greek-Israeli citizenship known as Dr. Farid. He transports the oil via several Turkish ports and then onto other ports, with Israel among the main destinations.
In August, the “Financial Times” reported that Israel obtained 75% of its oil supplies from Iraqi Kurdistan. More than a third of such exports go through the port of Ceyhan, which the FT describe as a “potential gateway for ISIS-smuggled crude.”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-is-the-main-purchaser-of-isis-oil/5493738
http://www.globes.co.il/en/article.aspx?did=1001084873
Where's the lamestream media when you need them?
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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Indy media has been saying this since ISIS was born, and I've been saying it here in the Syria threads and other ME related threads since day one. Israel and Turkey both buying oil from ISIS. Israel treating 'rebels' in Golan. Turkey is allowing flow of supplies through their border. 'Rebels' trained by US in Jordan. Funding from Saudi Arabia. All widely known for over a year....and widely dismissed/ignored (or at least not acknowledged) on this board and in the lamestream. Still mostly ignored after the f'n leader of Russia gives the 'for dummies' version at an international conference. If it's 'starting to gain traction', this situation is a perfect examples of how pathetic our media is, and how much we let our allies get away with, and points to our true intentions in the conflict....
http://www.timesofisrael.com/how-a-gay-iranian-poet-fleeing-persecution-fell-in-love-with-israel/
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inpictures/2015/12/winter-gaza-makeshift-homes-151208081734131.html
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/12/israel-bans-anti-war-veterans-classrooms-151216140545899.html
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I wish EV would take a stand on this topic instead of singing Imagine and wishing it all away....
There is zero doubt in my mind that his Milton Keynes rant was about Israel...the reaction of Israel's supporters and media confirmed as much. His backpedal afterward (saying he is anti-war and referencing other US conflicts) makes me wonder if the backlash had him concerned for his safety......or if there is dissent within the band on the topic....or if his bandmates just want him not to get involved. His seemingly burgeoning friendship with Roger Waters, the fact PJ hasn't played there and has not replied to the campaigns to play there make me think he has taken a side...why won't he speak up?
http://mondoweiss.net/2015/12/brookings-institution-counter
Last June, Haim Saban and Sheldon Adelson held a secret summit in Las Vegas to come up with ways of fighting the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions campaign on college campuses. They raised a reported $50 million to do so.
Well now that secret process seems to have moved on to far more influential turf; Washington, D.C., and a leading liberal thinktank: last week the Brookings Institution held a secret panel on BDS, sponsored by Haim Saban. By all appearances, the intent of the panel was to counter the BDS campaign.
The panel took place during the weekend-long annual Saban Forum, which brings Israeli leaders and US leaders together to talk about “the future for Israelis and Palestinians”–without any Palestinians in attendance. The BDS panel was among many meetings December 4-6 not mentioned on the Saban Forum’s public agenda.
On Saturday night, journalist Jeffrey Goldberg said at a public panel: “This morning at the BDS panel–” But he was promptly hushed.
“Which was off the record,” a woman’s voice says; my guess is it’s the same voice who just introduced Goldberg, Tamara Cofman Wittes, the conference leader.
Goldberg jokingly called the BDS panel the “Dimona” of panels, a reference to Israel’s secret nuclear program, and reported on its dire mood:
“If the BDS panel took place, there would have been a feeling that the Israeli participant in the panel was the object of a lot of yearning and anxiety from some Americans who felt as if Israel was not paying sufficient attention to what’s going on on campuses and beyond.”
Goldberg wasn’t the only journalist at the panel. Chemi Shalev of Haaretz was there and referred elliptically to it in print when he described the mood of the Saban forum as being one of “anxiety and anguish” on the part of Americans.
I asked Shalev why he had agreed to treat a newsworthy panel as off the record, and I said I found it unseemly that Brookings was performing an “AIPAC-like function” in fighting the BDS movement, and doing so in secret. He responded to me:
“The Saban inviters lay down the ground rules for the entire forum and one can either choose to accept and attend or reject and not attend. I chose the former… I don’t agree with characterization of what was going on at Saban, re ‘AIPAC like function’; in fact, I would say the opposite: criticism of Israeli government and deep frustration with its policies overwhelmingly outstripped praise or support, as I myself have written.”
When I asked Shalev whether any supporter of BDS was on the panel, he declined to answer, but said my guess on that score was probably right. That means no one was advocating for BDS.
I wrote to Wittes, director of Brookings Center for Middle East Policy, and to a Brookings spokesperson to ask who was on the panel and what its title was, and if any advocates for BDS were on the panel. Neither responded to my questions.
Brookings would surely defend the secret panel by saying it’s part of a largely off-the-record conference among Israeli and American leaders. Shalev described the gathering in his article as a meeting of “[Haim] Saban’s American contingent of Brookings scholars, former Democratic administration officials and members of Congress” and an “Israeli delegation of mainstream Israeli politicians, journalists and businessmen.”
Americans should be asking why such a conference is taking place behind closed doors at a leading liberal thinktank– and why it’s tackling BDS, which Israeli leaders have termed an “existential” threat to Israel.
The gathering is a reflection of the power of the Israel lobby in Washington. Saban successfully pressured President Obama to stop putting pressure on Israel over settlements, by coming out for the president in 2012 and giving a Democratic SuperPAC a $1 million donation. Both Wittes and Goldberg referred affectionately to Israeli politicians Yitzhak Herzog– who opposed the Iran Deal– and Avigdor Lieberman–who called for the transfer of Palestinians– by their nicknames, “Boogie” and “Yvet.”
In the Saban Forum transcript of Goldberg’s public comments on Saturday night (the audio is more inclusive), Goldberg brought up the BDS panel as evidence of the “pervasive unease on the part of many Americans” about Israel’s conduct: “trying to warn their Israeli friends that a train is coming barreling down the tracks” and they’re just standing there.
Many of those Americans are Jewish Zionists. Shalev reported that the American group at the conference were reassured by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s statement to the conference that he still favored the “two-state solution.” That might be hypocritical, Shalev observed, but it’s how the game works:
Armed with this facade, American Jews can lobby the administration to support Israel, protest against unwarranted bias in Europe and the United Nations, and, most importantly, look themselves in the mirror.
Brookings might defend a secret panel on BDS by pointing out that countless US politicians are opposing BDS. Many Republicans have come out against BDS. And in her speech to the Saban conference the day after the BDS panel, Hillary Clinton asserted — laughably– that BDS is hurting the American ability to counter terrorism in the Middle East, because it is hurting our closest ally in the fight against extremism. She was surely pandering to Haim Saban. Clinton wrote a letter to Saban last summer that she promptly published, promising to work with Republican politicians to oppose BDS.
I find the whole matter unseemly. BDS is one of the chief threats to Israel, Netanyahu has said. So a leading liberal American thinktank is aligning itself with Israel on that battle? And if it is, why can’t it do so openly? One can fairly ask if Saban’s largesse is dictating the Brookings position, and that of the Democratic Party too.
BDS is clearly coming on strong despite all these efforts. At that event on December 5, Goldberg went on about the BDS panel that dare not speak its name, and related an anecdote from his daughter’s college campus.
Goldberg: Our oldest daughter is a freshman at a liberal arts college in New England, a pretty well-known school. And she reports to us that J Street at that street
represents the Zionist right–”
[Haim Saban seems to break in on Goldberg]
“I wish it were funny, Haim. I wish it were funny. I mean, it’s funny, but it’s not funny. It could be both funny and not funny at the same time. Have you ever heard of a tragic comedy? You live in Hollywood. She reports that the largest Jewish organization — 25 percent of this campus is Jewish — the largest Jewish organization is a group called Jewish Voice for Peace, which is an Orwellian name for a group that opposes Israeli’s existence.
HERZOG: We saw a huge write up it in Israel. It’s a huge BDS group.
Goldberg said that sentiment toward Israel in the American Jewish comunity was “radically shifting,” and asked Lieberman if he cared. Lieberman said, “To speak frankly, I don’t care.” He called for better hasbara and Zionist education.
Later a woman in the audience, evidently Jewish, implored Lieberman to care.
you are also missing something if you think that any amount of education is going to change the fact that the millennials today do not relate to the narrative that you’re expressing. And so my question for you is simple. Do you care if we lose the young Jews in the diaspora?
Jewish Voice for Peace is surely the fastest-growing Jewish group in the country and the largest Jewish peace and justice organization in the US. It has 200,000 supporters. It has no place at Brookings– and it wasn’t invited to the Haaretz New Israel Fund conference last weekend either.
http://www.high-level-military-group.org/pdf/hlmg-assessment-2014-gaza-conflict.pdf
It's a long read but here's the key take away:
"No country would accept the threat against its civilian population that these rockets and tunnels present to Israeli population centres. Members of the High Level Military Group, some of whom had never visited the country prior to our fact-finding visits, were united in our view that Israel’s efforts were entirely necessary and justified in the defence of that country’s national security.
We can further be categorically clear that Israel’s conduct in the 2014 Gaza Conflict met and in some respects exceeded the highest standards we set for our own nations’ militaries. It is our view that Israel fought an exemplary campaign, adequately conceived with appropriately limited objectives, displaying both a very high level of operational capability as well as a total commitment to the Law of Armed Conflict. The IDF not only met its obligations under the Law of Armed Conflict, but often exceeded these on the battlefield at significant tactical cost, as well as in the humanitarian relief efforts that accompanied its operation."
There you have it folks
No doubt Hamas acts in ways detrimental to their own people, as many can admit in this conflict, but to deny Israel any culpability is irresponsible on its face.
It needs noted that the UN has yet to issue its conclusions based on this report and others. So this isn't the final word.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
AN ASSESSMENT OF THE 2014 GAZA CONFLICT
Copyright © 2015 by Friends of Israel Initiative
All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced, distributed, or transmitted in any form or by any means, including photocopying, recording, or other electronic or mechanical methods, without the prior written permission of the publisher, except in the case of brief quotations embodied in critical reviews and certain other non-commercial uses permitted by copyright law.
So this isn't really an independent review by an outside party.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
http://www.ohchr.org/en/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=16119&LangID=E
Interesting reading here.
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/CoIGazaConflict/Pages/CommissionOfInquiry.aspx
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
From the foreward:
"We relied on well respected professionals chosen for their extensive relevant experience. They drew their own conclusions contained in this report, with FoII’s sole responsibility being to make the necessary means available to the High Level Military Group to conduct its research"
But if you would like to dismiss it out of hand as propaganda be my guest. From here on out I shall dismiss all other points as being written by "Not Friends of Israel".
Must be a reason why Israel would be "open" with this group but not the U.N.. the two reports are striking in the differences of the final conclusions.
I trust the U.N. report more. Seems to show a more balanced assessment in calling out BOTH sides. Thats just me though I guess.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14