Meanwhile back in Israel

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Comments

  • benjs said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Tread carefully? Eddie isn't an antisemite. He has nothing to tread carefully about unless his goal is to kowtow to idiots.

    and that's the thing, right? We have people saying that criticizing Israel is anti-Semitic, while others remind us that it's anti-Semitic to lump the Jewish people in with the 'Jewish state'. You can't win. Does that mean we should just shut up? The anti Semite card should not give Israel carte Blanche in their foreign policy.
    So ya...tread carefully if your goal is not to offend anyone.

    'If I offended you? I'm sorry but maybe you need to be offended. Here's my apology, and one more thing....fuck you!'
    Hehe. ST

    When it comes to Israel, no matter your opinion, some will support you, others will contort your words, and inevitably, you will either start a supportive mob, or an angry outraged riot: there are no quiet people in this discussion, and words are conflated or deflated either strategically or impulsively. The biggest problem as I see it is that when it comes to Israeli politics, most have made up their minds to the point where they have lost their definition of what being open-minded truly is.

    I'm praying to the universe for something closer to justice in Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank this year. It starts with being a lot quieter, and listening a lot more critically. It also means a serious attempt to induce 'label-blindness': imagine what would happen if Israeli or Palestinian news articles referred to what people are doing to people, rather than Palestinians to Jews or Jews to Palestinians? I think you'd see a lot more empathy and understanding come out of a simple experiment. For that matter, stripping the news anywhere of mentions of wrongs from one demographic to another would be a valuable way to minimize confirmation bias.
    I agree that focusing on the actions instead of the actors would make things much easier to digest.

    Can one fairly remove motives to do this?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 16,052

    benjs said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Tread carefully? Eddie isn't an antisemite. He has nothing to tread carefully about unless his goal is to kowtow to idiots.

    and that's the thing, right? We have people saying that criticizing Israel is anti-Semitic, while others remind us that it's anti-Semitic to lump the Jewish people in with the 'Jewish state'. You can't win. Does that mean we should just shut up? The anti Semite card should not give Israel carte Blanche in their foreign policy.
    So ya...tread carefully if your goal is not to offend anyone.

    'If I offended you? I'm sorry but maybe you need to be offended. Here's my apology, and one more thing....fuck you!'
    Hehe. ST

    When it comes to Israel, no matter your opinion, some will support you, others will contort your words, and inevitably, you will either start a supportive mob, or an angry outraged riot: there are no quiet people in this discussion, and words are conflated or deflated either strategically or impulsively. The biggest problem as I see it is that when it comes to Israeli politics, most have made up their minds to the point where they have lost their definition of what being open-minded truly is.

    I'm praying to the universe for something closer to justice in Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank this year. It starts with being a lot quieter, and listening a lot more critically. It also means a serious attempt to induce 'label-blindness': imagine what would happen if Israeli or Palestinian news articles referred to what people are doing to people, rather than Palestinians to Jews or Jews to Palestinians? I think you'd see a lot more empathy and understanding come out of a simple experiment. For that matter, stripping the news anywhere of mentions of wrongs from one demographic to another would be a valuable way to minimize confirmation bias.
    I agree that focusing on the actions instead of the actors would make things much easier to digest.

    Can one fairly remove motives to do this?
    With a willingness to describe own failings as well, lends to a more credible assessment IMO.In fact more may be accomplished in sticking to own wrongdoing and correcting that. One needs the courage to do so without expectation of reciprocity.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,813
    PJ_Soul said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Tread carefully? Eddie isn't an antisemite. He has nothing to tread carefully about unless his goal is to kowtow to idiots.

    um, no one said he was. I just said that wading into this debate isn't something to do lightly, especially as a celebrity. that is all.

    I hear what you're saying Hugh. It's disappointing that he backed down...that's my point.
    I haven't read everything so might be missing something... did EV back down? Or do you just mean that it's disappointing that he didn't continue pushing the issue? If the latter I would agree. I have always found EV to be a bit perplexing in this way. He has strong opinions and unique ideas and a desire to get creative (musically, too), he seems to understand the special opportunity he has as a person with a stage and a voice and principles he thinks are worth pushing, and he seems to acknowledge the importance of calling it as he sees it and exposing the issue, whatever that may be). Yet he also seems hyper-concerned about how people react to what he says. You can't have it both ways though, and i think his concern about offending people (or even just about people not liking what he's doing when it comes to musical experimentation) makes him weaker and ultimately ineffectual.
    how do you know he cares what people think?

    if he is concerned, maybe it all started with Bushleaguer at Nassau.

    12/29/19
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,927
    edited January 2016

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Tread carefully? Eddie isn't an antisemite. He has nothing to tread carefully about unless his goal is to kowtow to idiots.

    um, no one said he was. I just said that wading into this debate isn't something to do lightly, especially as a celebrity. that is all.

    I hear what you're saying Hugh. It's disappointing that he backed down...that's my point.
    I haven't read everything so might be missing something... did EV back down? Or do you just mean that it's disappointing that he didn't continue pushing the issue? If the latter I would agree. I have always found EV to be a bit perplexing in this way. He has strong opinions and unique ideas and a desire to get creative (musically, too), he seems to understand the special opportunity he has as a person with a stage and a voice and principles he thinks are worth pushing, and he seems to acknowledge the importance of calling it as he sees it and exposing the issue, whatever that may be). Yet he also seems hyper-concerned about how people react to what he says. You can't have it both ways though, and i think his concern about offending people (or even just about people not liking what he's doing when it comes to musical experimentation) makes him weaker and ultimately ineffectual.
    how do you know he cares what people think?

    if he is concerned, maybe it all started with Bushleaguer at Nassau.

    Well for one thing, he specifically stated so in the extras on the PJ20 DVD. He said he wished he was more like Neil Young, who just goes for it and doesn't worry about what everything thinks so much. But I can also just see this in the way he talks on stage. The way he stops himself when he's starting to rant for fear of offending, etc. You hear this on several boots.
    If it started with Bu$hleaguer in Nassau I'd be disappointed in him, frankly. I'd be disappointed in anyone who let something like that shut them up about something they care about and think is important. More than most things, I respect when people stand up and speak up for what they really believe in, and all the more when it's met with resistance (assuming the beliefs aren't evil or something, obviously).
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,949
    edited January 2016
    mickeyrat said:

    benjs said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Tread carefully? Eddie isn't an antisemite. He has nothing to tread carefully about unless his goal is to kowtow to idiots.

    and that's the thing, right? We have people saying that criticizing Israel is anti-Semitic, while others remind us that it's anti-Semitic to lump the Jewish people in with the 'Jewish state'. You can't win. Does that mean we should just shut up? The anti Semite card should not give Israel carte Blanche in their foreign policy.
    So ya...tread carefully if your goal is not to offend anyone.

    'If I offended you? I'm sorry but maybe you need to be offended. Here's my apology, and one more thing....fuck you!'
    Hehe. ST

    When it comes to Israel, no matter your opinion, some will support you, others will contort your words, and inevitably, you will either start a supportive mob, or an angry outraged riot: there are no quiet people in this discussion, and words are conflated or deflated either strategically or impulsively. The biggest problem as I see it is that when it comes to Israeli politics, most have made up their minds to the point where they have lost their definition of what being open-minded truly is.

    I'm praying to the universe for something closer to justice in Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank this year. It starts with being a lot quieter, and listening a lot more critically. It also means a serious attempt to induce 'label-blindness': imagine what would happen if Israeli or Palestinian news articles referred to what people are doing to people, rather than Palestinians to Jews or Jews to Palestinians? I think you'd see a lot more empathy and understanding come out of a simple experiment. For that matter, stripping the news anywhere of mentions of wrongs from one demographic to another would be a valuable way to minimize confirmation bias.
    I agree that focusing on the actions instead of the actors would make things much easier to digest.

    Can one fairly remove motives to do this?
    With a willingness to describe own failings as well, lends to a more credible assessment IMO.In fact more may be accomplished in sticking to own wrongdoing and correcting that. One needs the courage to do so without expectation of reciprocity.
    What I'm proposing is we don't differentiate between our own actions and the actions of others, and that you do this by simply not broadcasting whose actions these were in the first place. In this way, a person or group is forced to either be bilaterally reasonable or unreasonable; and even if the outcome is the latter, at least there's uniform mistreatment, which would create indisputable grounds for external condemnation.

    I also believe that in time, this would create a psychological change in the way people opine - perhaps even inducing a more permanent diminishing of bias.
    Post edited by benjs on
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    EV
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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,813
    PJ_Soul said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Tread carefully? Eddie isn't an antisemite. He has nothing to tread carefully about unless his goal is to kowtow to idiots.

    um, no one said he was. I just said that wading into this debate isn't something to do lightly, especially as a celebrity. that is all.

    I hear what you're saying Hugh. It's disappointing that he backed down...that's my point.
    I haven't read everything so might be missing something... did EV back down? Or do you just mean that it's disappointing that he didn't continue pushing the issue? If the latter I would agree. I have always found EV to be a bit perplexing in this way. He has strong opinions and unique ideas and a desire to get creative (musically, too), he seems to understand the special opportunity he has as a person with a stage and a voice and principles he thinks are worth pushing, and he seems to acknowledge the importance of calling it as he sees it and exposing the issue, whatever that may be). Yet he also seems hyper-concerned about how people react to what he says. You can't have it both ways though, and i think his concern about offending people (or even just about people not liking what he's doing when it comes to musical experimentation) makes him weaker and ultimately ineffectual.
    how do you know he cares what people think?

    if he is concerned, maybe it all started with Bushleaguer at Nassau.

    Well for one thing, he specifically stated so in the extras on the PJ20 DVD. He said he wished he was more like Neil Young, who just goes for it and doesn't worry about what everything thinks so much. But I can also just see this in the way he talks on stage. The way he stops himself when he's starting to rant for fear of offending, etc. You hear this on several boots.
    If it started with Bu$hleaguer in Nassau I'd be disappointed in him, frankly. I'd be disappointed in anyone who let something like that shut them up about something they care about and think is important. More than most things, I respect when people stand up and speak up for what they really believe in, and all the more when it's met with resistance (assuming the beliefs aren't evil or something, obviously).
    but wasn't that thing in PJ20 more related to musical endeavors?

    I don't think anyone should judge him if it started at Nassau, unless you've also been up in front of 15,000 people stating your views and you hear nothing but boos and fuck yous. Seriously, Matt even said it was pretty scarey being up there with all of that negative energy coming from the crowd. I know Jeff said he loved it, but he also mentoined he doesn't have outside forces to worry about. I think that type of thing might be enough to make anyone think twice about doing such things, putting it especially in the context of some of Ed's past fan experiences.

    12/29/19
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,927
    edited January 2016

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Tread carefully? Eddie isn't an antisemite. He has nothing to tread carefully about unless his goal is to kowtow to idiots.

    um, no one said he was. I just said that wading into this debate isn't something to do lightly, especially as a celebrity. that is all.

    I hear what you're saying Hugh. It's disappointing that he backed down...that's my point.
    I haven't read everything so might be missing something... did EV back down? Or do you just mean that it's disappointing that he didn't continue pushing the issue? If the latter I would agree. I have always found EV to be a bit perplexing in this way. He has strong opinions and unique ideas and a desire to get creative (musically, too), he seems to understand the special opportunity he has as a person with a stage and a voice and principles he thinks are worth pushing, and he seems to acknowledge the importance of calling it as he sees it and exposing the issue, whatever that may be). Yet he also seems hyper-concerned about how people react to what he says. You can't have it both ways though, and i think his concern about offending people (or even just about people not liking what he's doing when it comes to musical experimentation) makes him weaker and ultimately ineffectual.
    how do you know he cares what people think?

    if he is concerned, maybe it all started with Bushleaguer at Nassau.

    Well for one thing, he specifically stated so in the extras on the PJ20 DVD. He said he wished he was more like Neil Young, who just goes for it and doesn't worry about what everything thinks so much. But I can also just see this in the way he talks on stage. The way he stops himself when he's starting to rant for fear of offending, etc. You hear this on several boots.
    If it started with Bu$hleaguer in Nassau I'd be disappointed in him, frankly. I'd be disappointed in anyone who let something like that shut them up about something they care about and think is important. More than most things, I respect when people stand up and speak up for what they really believe in, and all the more when it's met with resistance (assuming the beliefs aren't evil or something, obviously).
    but wasn't that thing in PJ20 more related to musical endeavors?

    I don't think anyone should judge him if it started at Nassau, unless you've also been up in front of 15,000 people stating your views and you hear nothing but boos and fuck yous. Seriously, Matt even said it was pretty scarey being up there with all of that negative energy coming from the crowd. I know Jeff said he loved it, but he also mentoined he doesn't have outside forces to worry about. I think that type of thing might be enough to make anyone think twice about doing such things, putting it especially in the context of some of Ed's past fan experiences.

    I did include music in my original comment. "Desire to get creative (musically, too).

    But yeah, everything I already said I still think. I don't know if that incident in Nassau had an impact on him or not, but if it did, yes, it would disappoint me. I figure something like that would actually strengthen a person's resolve, not weaken it. I mean, the crowd reaction totally proved a point - people were acting like IDIOTS about Bu$hleaguer and Bush back then. If I'd been up there I would have taken the crowd reaction as a fucking compliment and as a reason to speak up even more.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,813
    PJ_Soul said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Tread carefully? Eddie isn't an antisemite. He has nothing to tread carefully about unless his goal is to kowtow to idiots.

    um, no one said he was. I just said that wading into this debate isn't something to do lightly, especially as a celebrity. that is all.

    I hear what you're saying Hugh. It's disappointing that he backed down...that's my point.
    I haven't read everything so might be missing something... did EV back down? Or do you just mean that it's disappointing that he didn't continue pushing the issue? If the latter I would agree. I have always found EV to be a bit perplexing in this way. He has strong opinions and unique ideas and a desire to get creative (musically, too), he seems to understand the special opportunity he has as a person with a stage and a voice and principles he thinks are worth pushing, and he seems to acknowledge the importance of calling it as he sees it and exposing the issue, whatever that may be). Yet he also seems hyper-concerned about how people react to what he says. You can't have it both ways though, and i think his concern about offending people (or even just about people not liking what he's doing when it comes to musical experimentation) makes him weaker and ultimately ineffectual.
    how do you know he cares what people think?

    if he is concerned, maybe it all started with Bushleaguer at Nassau.

    Well for one thing, he specifically stated so in the extras on the PJ20 DVD. He said he wished he was more like Neil Young, who just goes for it and doesn't worry about what everything thinks so much. But I can also just see this in the way he talks on stage. The way he stops himself when he's starting to rant for fear of offending, etc. You hear this on several boots.
    If it started with Bu$hleaguer in Nassau I'd be disappointed in him, frankly. I'd be disappointed in anyone who let something like that shut them up about something they care about and think is important. More than most things, I respect when people stand up and speak up for what they really believe in, and all the more when it's met with resistance (assuming the beliefs aren't evil or something, obviously).
    but wasn't that thing in PJ20 more related to musical endeavors?

    I don't think anyone should judge him if it started at Nassau, unless you've also been up in front of 15,000 people stating your views and you hear nothing but boos and fuck yous. Seriously, Matt even said it was pretty scarey being up there with all of that negative energy coming from the crowd. I know Jeff said he loved it, but he also mentoined he doesn't have outside forces to worry about. I think that type of thing might be enough to make anyone think twice about doing such things, putting it especially in the context of some of Ed's past fan experiences.

    I did include music in my original comment. "Desire to get creative (musically, too).

    But yeah, everything I already said I still think. I don't know if that incident in Nassau had an impact on him or not, but if it did, yes, it would disappoint me. I figure something like that would actually strengthen a person's resolve, not weaken it. I mean, the crowd reaction totally proved a point - people were acting like IDIOTS about Bu$hleaguer and Bush back then. If I'd been up there I would have taken the crowd reaction as a fucking compliment and as a reason to speak up even more.
    all I'm saying is that yeah, we both say that now, as I'm the same way, but given Ed's past "nutjob" experiences, it MAY change your answer if in his shoes. that's all I'm saying.

    12/29/19
  • I wonder what the price of gas per liter is in Tel Aviv? Anyone know?
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  • Our lonely eyes turn to you Joe.
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  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,967
    Big firestorm over Israeli BDS activist who is sending Palestinians to their deaths for selling land to jews.

    http://forward.com/news/breaking-news/329161/israeli-activist-says-he-helps-kill-palestinians-who-sell-land-to-jews/#ixzz3wnWaTRPP

    Just a peaceful resistance movement.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 16,052
    BS44325 said:

    Big firestorm over Israeli BDS activist who is sending Palestinians to their deaths for selling land to jews.

    http://forward.com/news/breaking-news/329161/israeli-activist-says-he-helps-kill-palestinians-who-sell-land-to-jews/#ixzz3wnWaTRPP

    Just a peaceful resistance movement.

    Where does it say BDS ANYWHERE in that article?

    Thanks for the bs BS.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,967
    mickeyrat said:

    BS44325 said:

    Big firestorm over Israeli BDS activist who is sending Palestinians to their deaths for selling land to jews.

    http://forward.com/news/breaking-news/329161/israeli-activist-says-he-helps-kill-palestinians-who-sell-land-to-jews/#ixzz3wnWaTRPP

    Just a peaceful resistance movement.

    Where does it say BDS ANYWHERE in that article?

    Thanks for the bs BS.
    Nawi is a member of Ta'ayush. He's part of the movement. I understand how this is uncomfortable for you.
  • What's the price per barrel of ISIS oil today? On the spot market? You know Israel is buying it right? Supporters of and perpetrators of terrorism. Yea, sure, keep blaming the BDS movement for the Paris attacks and ISIS' outreach. Or Obama. No shame. Are you comfortable with that? Sure you are.
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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 16,052
    BS44325 said:

    mickeyrat said:

    BS44325 said:

    Big firestorm over Israeli BDS activist who is sending Palestinians to their deaths for selling land to jews.

    http://forward.com/news/breaking-news/329161/israeli-activist-says-he-helps-kill-palestinians-who-sell-land-to-jews/#ixzz3wnWaTRPP

    Just a peaceful resistance movement.

    Where does it say BDS ANYWHERE in that article?

    Thanks for the bs BS.
    Nawi is a member of Ta'ayush. He's part of the movement. I understand how this is uncomfortable for you.
    First, give me tbe respct by not condescending with that last comment. We have never met. You dont know what would or wouldn't be uncomfortable for me.

    Second, veracity if your source?

    See, theres nothing I saw on this website that supports BDS. You would think there would be SOME reference to it no?
    http://www.taayush.org/?page_id=49
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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 16,052
    BS just how many of YOUR tax dollars blindly support an apartheid regime? And this Aparthied regime in particular?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 16,052
    Israel. A State you can get behind.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/01/israeli-rights-group-hit-suspected-arson-attack-160111031938296.html


    Seems that's the safest place, behind them.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,040
    callen said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Tread carefully? Eddie isn't an antisemite. He has nothing to tread carefully about unless his goal is to kowtow to idiots.

    um, no one said he was. I just said that wading into this debate isn't something to do lightly, especially as a celebrity. that is all.

    I hear what you're saying Hugh. It's disappointing that he backed down...that's my point.
    He's an entertainer. Makes great music. Nothing more. If he wants to take a stand on injustices, fine. If not well I'm good as well. Love to get some new music or some concerts but sure as hell don't want to give Ed Powers and responsibilities.
    Nothing more? I'm sure the WM3 would disagree. I'm not assigning responsibilities - no one should tell another person which causes to support or not support. But if you are going to take the time to publicly emotionally comment on a topic, you should be willing and prepared to back it up. I think it's unfortunate that he wasnt willing to in this case.
    PJ_Soul said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Tread carefully? Eddie isn't an antisemite. He has nothing to tread carefully about unless his goal is to kowtow to idiots.

    um, no one said he was. I just said that wading into this debate isn't something to do lightly, especially as a celebrity. that is all.

    I hear what you're saying Hugh. It's disappointing that he backed down...that's my point.
    I haven't read everything so might be missing something... did EV back down? Or do you just mean that it's disappointing that he didn't continue pushing the issue? If the latter I would agree. I have always found EV to be a bit perplexing in this way. He has strong opinions and unique ideas and a desire to get creative (musically, too), he seems to understand the special opportunity he has as a person with a stage and a voice and principles he thinks are worth pushing, and he seems to acknowledge the importance of calling it as he sees it and exposing the issue, whatever that may be). Yet he also seems hyper-concerned about how people react to what he says. You can't have it both ways though, and i think his concern about offending people (or even just about people not liking what he's doing when it comes to musical experimentation) makes him weaker and ultimately ineffectual.
    He went from screaming 'no more' about people crossing borders and stealing land, to saying 'just because you're anti-war doesnt' mean youre pro one side or the other'...I would call that backing down.
    benjs said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Tread carefully? Eddie isn't an antisemite. He has nothing to tread carefully about unless his goal is to kowtow to idiots.

    and that's the thing, right? We have people saying that criticizing Israel is anti-Semitic, while others remind us that it's anti-Semitic to lump the Jewish people in with the 'Jewish state'. You can't win. Does that mean we should just shut up? The anti Semite card should not give Israel carte Blanche in their foreign policy.
    So ya...tread carefully if your goal is not to offend anyone.

    'If I offended you? I'm sorry but maybe you need to be offended. Here's my apology, and one more thing....fuck you!'
    Hehe. ST

    When it comes to Israel, no matter your opinion, some will support you, others will contort your words, and inevitably, you will either start a supportive mob, or an angry outraged riot: there are no quiet people in this discussion, and words are conflated or deflated either strategically or impulsively. The biggest problem as I see it is that when it comes to Israeli politics, most have made up their minds to the point where they have lost their definition of what being open-minded truly is.

    I'm praying to the universe for something closer to justice in Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank this year. It starts with being a lot quieter, and listening a lot more critically. It also means a serious attempt to induce 'label-blindness': imagine what would happen if Israeli or Palestinian news articles referred to what people are doing to people, rather than Palestinians to Jews or Jews to Palestinians? I think you'd see a lot more empathy and understanding come out of a simple experiment. For that matter, stripping the news anywhere of mentions of wrongs from one demographic to another would be a valuable way to minimize confirmation bias.
    I think that's an idealist view, similar to what EV did with his obtuse follow up after the MK show. To say 'a teenager was shot at a checkpoint today' in a news story may eventually change the way people view the conflict...eventually....if every outlet in the world did the same. Which I don't think is realistic. And honestly, in a conflict as one-sided as this one, I think it may be a disservice to the victims. Removing bias in the presentation is important, but ignoring the motivations works to shelter the perpetrators.


  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,040
    BS44325 said:

    mickeyrat said:

    BS44325 said:

    Big firestorm over Israeli BDS activist who is sending Palestinians to their deaths for selling land to jews.

    http://forward.com/news/breaking-news/329161/israeli-activist-says-he-helps-kill-palestinians-who-sell-land-to-jews/#ixzz3wnWaTRPP

    Just a peaceful resistance movement.

    Where does it say BDS ANYWHERE in that article?

    Thanks for the bs BS.
    Nawi is a member of Ta'ayush. He's part of the movement. I understand how this is uncomfortable for you.
    So I guess 10C is a hateful organization because they let you post unfettered disinformation and propaganda here....right?

    Anyone, from any walk of life can support a movement. It doesn't discredit the entire movement. So what is your point?

    The Palestinian Civil Society made the boycott call in 2005. If you're not familiar with the call, here it is:
    http://bdsmovement.net/call

    Please point out to me where it says they support death sentences for selling land to jews...

  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,967

    What's the price per barrel of ISIS oil today? On the spot market? You know Israel is buying it right? Supporters of and perpetrators of terrorism. Yea, sure, keep blaming the BDS movement for the Paris attacks and ISIS' outreach. Or Obama. No shame. Are you comfortable with that? Sure you are.

    mickeyrat said:

    BS just how many of YOUR tax dollars blindly support an apartheid regime? And this Aparthied regime in particular?

    Since I don't consider it to be an apartheid regime my answer is none.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,967

    BS44325 said:

    mickeyrat said:

    BS44325 said:

    Big firestorm over Israeli BDS activist who is sending Palestinians to their deaths for selling land to jews.

    http://forward.com/news/breaking-news/329161/israeli-activist-says-he-helps-kill-palestinians-who-sell-land-to-jews/#ixzz3wnWaTRPP

    Just a peaceful resistance movement.

    Where does it say BDS ANYWHERE in that article?

    Thanks for the bs BS.
    Nawi is a member of Ta'ayush. He's part of the movement. I understand how this is uncomfortable for you.
    So I guess 10C is a hateful organization because they let you post unfettered disinformation and propaganda here....right?

    Anyone, from any walk of life can support a movement. It doesn't discredit the entire movement. So what is your point?

    The Palestinian Civil Society made the boycott call in 2005. If you're not familiar with the call, here it is:
    http://bdsmovement.net/call

    Please point out to me where it says they support death sentences for selling land to jews...

    Venn Diagram.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 16,052
    BS44325 said:

    What's the price per barrel of ISIS oil today? On the spot market? You know Israel is buying it right? Supporters of and perpetrators of terrorism. Yea, sure, keep blaming the BDS movement for the Paris attacks and ISIS' outreach. Or Obama. No shame. Are you comfortable with that? Sure you are.

    mickeyrat said:

    BS just how many of YOUR tax dollars blindly support an apartheid regime? And this Aparthied regime in particular?

    Since I don't consider it to be an apartheid regime my answer is none.
    How much of your dollars go to Israel. Couldnt give a fuck less what you consider that state.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,967
    mickeyrat said:

    BS44325 said:

    What's the price per barrel of ISIS oil today? On the spot market? You know Israel is buying it right? Supporters of and perpetrators of terrorism. Yea, sure, keep blaming the BDS movement for the Paris attacks and ISIS' outreach. Or Obama. No shame. Are you comfortable with that? Sure you are.

    mickeyrat said:

    BS just how many of YOUR tax dollars blindly support an apartheid regime? And this Aparthied regime in particular?

    Since I don't consider it to be an apartheid regime my answer is none.
    How much of your dollars go to Israel. Couldnt give a fuck less what you consider that state.
    I think you give plenty of fucks. If you didn't why would you care how much of my money goes there?
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 16,052
    BS44325 said:

    mickeyrat said:

    BS44325 said:

    What's the price per barrel of ISIS oil today? On the spot market? You know Israel is buying it right? Supporters of and perpetrators of terrorism. Yea, sure, keep blaming the BDS movement for the Paris attacks and ISIS' outreach. Or Obama. No shame. Are you comfortable with that? Sure you are.

    mickeyrat said:

    BS just how many of YOUR tax dollars blindly support an apartheid regime? And this Aparthied regime in particular?

    Since I don't consider it to be an apartheid regime my answer is none.
    How much of your dollars go to Israel. Couldnt give a fuck less what you consider that state.
    I think you give plenty of fucks. If you didn't why would you care how much of my money goes there?
    Answer the question
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,967
    mickeyrat said:

    BS44325 said:

    mickeyrat said:

    BS44325 said:

    What's the price per barrel of ISIS oil today? On the spot market? You know Israel is buying it right? Supporters of and perpetrators of terrorism. Yea, sure, keep blaming the BDS movement for the Paris attacks and ISIS' outreach. Or Obama. No shame. Are you comfortable with that? Sure you are.

    mickeyrat said:

    BS just how many of YOUR tax dollars blindly support an apartheid regime? And this Aparthied regime in particular?

    Since I don't consider it to be an apartheid regime my answer is none.
    How much of your dollars go to Israel. Couldnt give a fuck less what you consider that state.
    I think you give plenty of fucks. If you didn't why would you care how much of my money goes there?
    Answer the question
    No
  • I guess all Methodists are now terrorists with blood on their hands, huh BS?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 5,967

    I guess all Methodists are now terrorists with blood on their hands, huh BS?

    Why would you guess that?
  • Seeing they voted to divest some of their $10-$20BB pension fund from 6 Israeli banks and a few companies involved with financing or building illegal settlements. Guess your news sources don't report such things? Kind of like good 'ol Poppy Koch building refineries for the Nazis. Wonder how the Israeli government feels about that?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,040
    edited January 2016
    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    mickeyrat said:

    BS44325 said:

    Big firestorm over Israeli BDS activist who is sending Palestinians to their deaths for selling land to jews.

    http://forward.com/news/breaking-news/329161/israeli-activist-says-he-helps-kill-palestinians-who-sell-land-to-jews/#ixzz3wnWaTRPP

    Just a peaceful resistance movement.

    Where does it say BDS ANYWHERE in that article?

    Thanks for the bs BS.
    Nawi is a member of Ta'ayush. He's part of the movement. I understand how this is uncomfortable for you.
    So I guess 10C is a hateful organization because they let you post unfettered disinformation and propaganda here....right?

    Anyone, from any walk of life can support a movement. It doesn't discredit the entire movement. So what is your point?

    The Palestinian Civil Society made the boycott call in 2005. If you're not familiar with the call, here it is:
    http://bdsmovement.net/call

    Please point out to me where it says they support death sentences for selling land to jews...

    Venn Diagram.
    A Venn diagram would support what I said. There are many different approaches to Palestinian resistance. Just because there is overlap in their agendas doesn't mean all of the movements are invalid, or that the non-violent means can be discredited by the violent ones.
    In your world, converging black and white circles don't create grey areas, they create black within the white...By that logic, the Zionist movement is at its core a racist, genocidal one...right? All jews support violence against Palestinians and burning babies alive and celebrate it at weddings? Hey, it's a Venn diagram, right?
    I know you will accept nothing less than full subservience from the Palestinian population to their Israeli overlords, so this conversation is meaningless and will accomplish nothing. I only reply to your posts because your extremist views should never be the last word.
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