10 little fucking douchebags burned a church down So tell me what fucking solutions do you have? mine is to cut that government loose. Fuck em. Stop blocking UN resolutions and hold them accountable.
Wont be long til a sunni government aquires a bomb. We'll see what happens then. maybe the moderates get to win out when that happens.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I wish I had solutions. I've already told you what I think ought to happen. As for cutting the government loose - only the ICC (if they do at all) possess the power to make that happen.
I'm sure this is fraught with issues, but my first thought on it goes like this.
1) Using the BDS movement and the ICC examination, exert global pressure to force Israeli attention to the situation at hand. America should withhold military funds from Israel, and stop sending arms to Saudi Arabia as well in the interest of impartiality. The contingency should be that any forms of aggression from external parties will resume the military funding America brings Israel. Alternatively, any aggression from Israel should sever the American/Israeli alliance. 2) Insist on a legally binding definition of the Jewish identity of Israel. If Israel is here to stay (a non-negotiable for most Israelis), then Israel as a Jewish state is here to stay. If the Jewish state is here to stay, what makes it Jewish must be defined. 3) Audit the Jewish identity of Israel. If any portion of it presents inequalities, they must be minimized first, then stricken. 4) Once the Jewish identity is defined, audit the rights that a Jew has in Israel, a non-Jew has in Israel, and a Palestinian has in the Palestinian regions. Lay out plans to normalize these rights with specific deadlines.
This is all before even discussing self-determination for the Palestinian people: this is about granting basic human rights to all humans in the region.
As an aside - of those ten little douchebags who burnt down the church, I'd bet not a single one of them had government ties, so sadly after all of this is said and done - Israel's likely in store for a civil war when those who are racist to their core will not accept each other's presence. As I've said too many times to count, this fact is likely exacerbated by the reiteration of the shit (or at least perception of shit) that each has suffered at the other's hands.
Post edited by benjs on
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Sorry, but you can't compare the 2 sides when it comes to suffering. No way
This is a real problem, Nart. I specifically said perception of suffering for that reason: I seriously hope at this point you know I don't think for a second their suffering is comparable. It's not relevant whether or not the suffering is real, just the perception. And the perception is 100% there in the minds of all. And if you'd like, disagree with me on that, but please don't disregard everything else I said there just because of one sentence that honestly was practically an aside compared to my main point (i.e. find solutions, not problems).
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Yosi, I'm curious to hear your response to what I had written above. If you're reading this, please let me know. Happy to talk here, or you're always welcome to message me. Same for anyone else who wants to discuss, of course!
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I'm also curious to hear opinions on this editorial. The last paragraph sums it up for me. I think what's been missing is a 'plan' agreed upon by Fatah, Hamas, and the Israeli government.
-Hamas won't relinquish security control, nor actively condemn anti-Israeli violence or rhetoric, if these actions create perceived certain stagnation in a solution and/or statehood for the Palestinians. Until word from Israel comes that a solution is to be agreed upon - in writing - the violence will continue, because the resistance force will be in full throttle -Fatah won't assist the restoration and rehabilitation of Gaza and its citizens until Hamas relinquishes security control, or actively condemns anti-Israeli violence or rhetoric -Israel won't back a two-state solution until it perceives its situation to be safe and secure
If the national unity government is redefined with what's likely to be a Hamas/Fatah split, Here's what I think ought to happen:
1) All three parties must sit down and arrange for Hamas and Fatah to join forces and crack down on anti-Israeli violence and rhetoric, and for Israel to crack down on anti-Arab/Palestinian violence and rhetoric. An agreement on the locations of the borders of a new state of Palestine should be negotiated and defined by both the Israeli government, and Fatah and Hamas. Settlement construction must be ceased, border crossing policies must be relaxed, and restoration efforts in Gaza must be increased. BDS campaigns should be halted. 2) There must be a deadline where the security efforts of all three parties is thoroughly audited. 3) Contingent on validating significant efforts worthy of further faith from all parties, and ensuring border controls on both the Palestinian and Israeli side, the Palestinian state should be recognized by Israel and the world alike. 3a) Should Israel's efforts be deemed unacceptable by a global governing board (possibly the UN), the ongoing ramifications should be a permanent cessation of settlement construction, the cessation of condemning BDS campaigns, and a regrouping of the three parties, at the UN, to discuss a permanent solution. Essentially, it's a reset switch on this idea, with a green light for global economically unenviable sanctions, and a hard halt to expansionism in the region. 3b) Should the Palestinians' efforts be deemed unacceptable by the same global governing board, the ramifications should be the nullification of the above. Life is hard enough as a Palestinian that the maintaining of the status quo should be punishment enough.
Not one of these steps works on its own: this must be a written plan, agreed upon by all parties involved. With exceptions to any one of them, I don't see it working. With all agreed upon, its odds of success are probably just above 'crapshoot' which is better than the current 'nil'.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Thurston Moore cancels Israel concert and joins the BDS movement. Wonder if pearl jam will ever have the balls to make their stance official like Thurston.
Such tired bullshit.... Who are you talking to? Who supports Hamas? These kinds of posts really do a disservice to your cause, Johnnie. You might not realize it, but anyone with a basic understanding of the occupation has an adverse reaction to people screaming anti-semite and terrorist. The constant portrayal of Israelis as victims, when there is a large and growing opinion that Israel's hawks are oppressors and war criminals (state terrorists), only reinforces that opinion. Most people with a basic understanding of current events see right thru this posturing, and recognize it as the 'politics of fear'. Which in turn makes them suspicious of ulterior motives and full of doubt about the legitimacy of the claim. So really....You are fostering support for the Palestinians when you do this. Nice work.
Oh, and.....once again, your post is more proof that PJ should never play Israel. As I continue to say....their appearance in Israel would be politicized and paraded around by the worst of Israel's apologists as a victory for Israel. Most of these people couldn't give a shit about the band coming to play, nor their music - they just want to be able to use the concert as proof of how 'normal' Israel is. When challenged, Israel's apologists turn around and say 'Israel's fans are no different than you - it's just a concert and they deserve to see their fav bands as much as anyone else'. But the next time BDS is mentioned, they parade out a list of bands that have played there like some kind of feather in their cap. The concert is politicized by the same people who previously claimed it was about the music and the fans - people like you. I'm sure most artists would prefer to avoid that, because this politicization 110% gives the appearance of support for the regime in Tel Aviv, regardless of their reasons for playing there.
Welp, given where I am from and what I believe is a duty as a citizen of this country, criticism of government is essential. To criticize a foreign government who receives 3billion in military aid to in part oppress innocents , you are god damned right I will criticize. Call me what the fuck you want. I dont care. Right is right.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Right, mickey.... Israel's apologists have managed to water down that accusation to the point that I don't really care if I'm called it any longer. If they define criticism of Israel and supporting non-violent means of protest as anti-semitism, then I guess that makes me an anti-semite. Whatever - sticks n stones. I know what's in my heart, and it is not hate of Jews. But if this is how they want the world to think - to accept the label of anti-semite as a condition of supporting equality.....then they need to accept that as the BDS movement continues to grow with every new settlement, every new bombing campaign (and international support for israel showing an equal/opposite effect) , that they are degrading the power of the anti-semite card they love so much to play. My children understood the parable of The Boy That Cried Wolf by about age 5....yet so many adult supporters of the Israeli govt cant seem to grasp the concept.
It's hilarious that the cons call others anti semite but hate it when Jews are liberal Americans like Spielberg or Lewis Black. Oh, it's because they're not war loving douchebags!
No wonder the anti-semite card is being pulled in regards to BDS....
Foreign direct investment in Israel dropped by 50% in 2014 and expert says it’s due to the Gaza war and BDS http://mondoweiss.net/2015/06/foreign-investment-dropped#sthash.v1kCy0zZ.dpuf Foreign direct investment in Israel dropped by 50% in 2014 according to a 2015 World Investment Report issued yesterday by the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development.
Newsweek reports: Foreign investment in Israel drops by 50%
Foreign direct investment (FDI) in Israel dropped by almost 50% last year in comparison to the year before as the country continues to feel the effects of last summer’s Gaza conflict, a new UN report has revealed.
The report, published by the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD), shows that only €5.7bn was invested into the country in 2014 in comparison with €10.5bn in 2013, a decrease of €4.8bn, or 46%. Israel’s FDI in other countries also decreased by 15%, from €4.2bn in in 2013 to €3.5bn last year.
Newsweek cites one of the authors of the report, Dr. Ronny Manos from the Open University of Israel, as speculating the declining investment is fallout from the Israeli military onslaught on Gaza last summer and “international boycotts” against Israel for “alleged violations of international law.” Ynet adds that, according to Manos, “these are only conjectures that can explain the sharp decline”
As we reported in 2013 investment committees for European banks were considering recommending their institutions bar loans to Israeli companies that have economic links with the Palestinian occupied territories. At the time Haaretz reported the investment committees “submit a report to their clients with recommendations about where to invest − and where not to invest. The process of examining the Israeli companies that operate in West Bank settlements involved the exercise of due diligence.”
From Haaretz:
According to the report that landed on the relevant desks here, a large number of those investment committees considered recommending to the banks to prohibit loans or aid of any kind to Israeli companies that operate in the West Bank − manufacturing there, selling their products, building homes and so forth − and also to Israeli banks that grant mortgages to home builders or buyers across the Green Line
Investment committees do not issue recommendations to boycott or sanction per se. They make prudent investment recommendations and in the case of Israel, a recommendation of this nature functions more as a warning to investors that profiting off the occupation, a business could become ensnared in being complicit and held legally responsible for crimes against international law.
Speaking of which, Palestine’s foreign minister Riad Malki visited the Hague today in his official capacity and submitted files to prosecutors at the International Criminal Court (ICC) charging Israeli with war crimes, the crime of apartheid, and other charges.
As an investor, it’s merely a matter of common sense not attaching your business to a potential minefield of liability.
Criticizing Israel is not antisemitic. Criticizing Israel while you remain silent on every other world wide atrocity is the definition of antisemitic. The Israel-Palestinian conflict is way way more complicated than Israel = bad, Palestinians = oppressed innocents. I have multiple times admitted that Israel is far from perfect. I have multiple times written that Israel needs to get back to the bargaining table and nail out a solution to this mess. You viewing it so amazingly one sided, constantly coming to a band's website day after day to post this shit just begs the question of what exactly your motives are. A true freedom fighter looking out for the welfare of the innocent oppressed Palestinians! What a bunch of bullshit.
What do all of you geniuses think would happen if Israel pulled out of the entire West Bank and removed every last Israeli citizen? (The fact that Arabs are allowed to remain in Israel but the Palestinians are allowed to keep their areas Judenrein smacks of REAL apartheid, but I digress.)
Well, let's examine what happened when Israel pulled out of Gaza. What did they get? Did they get a step closer to peace? Did they get "this is a nice start, let's get back to the table for serious talks?" No. They got Islamic Fascism. The type that launches 12,000 rockets, the type that hangs and tortures gays, that supports "honor killings" of women, arrests or murders political dissenters, destroys sites holy to other religions. Don't you think Israel should hesitate just for a moment before turning over more land to these people?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
What's this about silence on other world atrocities?...that's a fantasy concocted by your victim complex, and projected onto anyone who doesn't agree with you. The longer Israel hesitates, the more desperate Palestinians get, the more support Hamas gets. What is so difficult to understand here? How did the withdrawal affect quality of life in Gaza? You talk as if the withdrawal resulted in an autonomous state with everything a person could ask for, and those ungrateful animals decided they'd rather have war than peace in their own little utopia. Would it make you feel better if I said I don't support religious extremism? That includes those who use it to promote indiscriminate attacks, torture of gays, honor killings, arrest of political dissenters, and destroyers of holy sites....which btw, applies to Jewish extremists as well - many of whom reside in the Knesset. If you go to the bottom of the previous page, you'll see an article about Jews destroying a holy site....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? Further back in the article, there are quotes I posted from knesset members which call for ethnic cleansing and denial of rights to palestinians....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? A dissenting politician is going to joint the current Gaza flotilla....a knesset commitee just voted to 'punish' him....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? And your outrage over the first flotilla? 19 members of the US congress just sent a letter telling John Kerry to pressure ISrael to release Palestinian CHILD prisoners....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? And for the thousands of children killed by Israeli bombs n bullets over the last few years? Take a look in the mirror, genius. I can own the fact that I do not generally find much sympathy for Israel. Why? Because they have ZERO moral high ground. Other world atrocities, on the other hand, are not something I'm silent about. Do I speak out against every atrocity? Probably not. Do you? Nice try tho. Obfuscate all you want with your claims of complexity, no one is buying that excuse any longer. The israeli government has zero interest in negotiations - pure stall tactics every time they come to the table. So we're left with anti-semetic BDS. According to the above, it looks like 50% of the world business community (who dealt with Israel before last year) is anti-semetic. Sucks for ISrael, eh?
Wait. Turning over more land? Look at a map of borders in 1966 then one of israels current version. Big fucking difference.
Not much better than fucking squatters.
So history begins in 1966? Why doesn't it begin in 1947? That is what Hamas is out to achieve. Great way to completely ignore my points though. See, it's a lot easier for you to act like an indignant blowhard when commenting from 5000 miles away.
What's this about silence on other world atrocities?...that's a fantasy concocted by your victim complex, and projected onto anyone who doesn't agree with you. The longer Israel hesitates, the more desperate Palestinians get, the more support Hamas gets. What is so difficult to understand here? How did the withdrawal affect quality of life in Gaza? You talk as if the withdrawal resulted in an autonomous state with everything a person could ask for, and those ungrateful animals decided they'd rather have war than peace in their own little utopia. Would it make you feel better if I said I don't support religious extremism? That includes those who use it to promote indiscriminate attacks, torture of gays, honor killings, arrest of political dissenters, and destroyers of holy sites....which btw, applies to Jewish extremists as well - many of whom reside in the Knesset. If you go to the bottom of the previous page, you'll see an article about Jews destroying a holy site....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? Further back in the article, there are quotes I posted from knesset members which call for ethnic cleansing and denial of rights to palestinians....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? A dissenting politician is going to joint the current Gaza flotilla....a knesset commitee just voted to 'punish' him....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? And your outrage over the first flotilla? 19 members of the US congress just sent a letter telling John Kerry to pressure ISrael to release Palestinian CHILD prisoners....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? And for the thousands of children killed by Israeli bombs n bullets over the last few years? Take a look in the mirror, genius. I can own the fact that I do not generally find much sympathy for Israel. Why? Because they have ZERO moral high ground. Other world atrocities, on the other hand, are not something I'm silent about. Do I speak out against every atrocity? Probably not. Do you? Nice try tho. Obfuscate all you want with your claims of complexity, no one is buying that excuse any longer. The israeli government has zero interest in negotiations - pure stall tactics every time they come to the table. So we're left with anti-semetic BDS. According to the above, it looks like 50% of the world business community (who dealt with Israel before last year) is anti-semetic. Sucks for ISrael, eh?
So much propaganda and ignorance here. Not even worth answering. Keep yelling in your echo chamber.
Wait. Turning over more land? Look at a map of borders in 1966 then one of israels current version. Big fucking difference.
Not much better than fucking squatters.
So history begins in 1966? Why doesn't it begin in 1947? That is what Hamas is out to achieve. Great way to completely ignore my points though. See, it's a lot easier for you to act like an indignant blowhard when commenting from 5000 miles away.
no history doesnt begin in 66 , what does is the last full year when israel stayed within it borders, since , you'd be hard pressed to find any map delineating these same borders.
and unless you are stalking me throughout the enitre internet , you have no idea what I am passionate about or comment on. so blow hard on that.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
What's this about silence on other world atrocities?...that's a fantasy concocted by your victim complex, and projected onto anyone who doesn't agree with you. The longer Israel hesitates, the more desperate Palestinians get, the more support Hamas gets. What is so difficult to understand here? How did the withdrawal affect quality of life in Gaza? You talk as if the withdrawal resulted in an autonomous state with everything a person could ask for, and those ungrateful animals decided they'd rather have war than peace in their own little utopia. Would it make you feel better if I said I don't support religious extremism? That includes those who use it to promote indiscriminate attacks, torture of gays, honor killings, arrest of political dissenters, and destroyers of holy sites....which btw, applies to Jewish extremists as well - many of whom reside in the Knesset. If you go to the bottom of the previous page, you'll see an article about Jews destroying a holy site....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? Further back in the article, there are quotes I posted from knesset members which call for ethnic cleansing and denial of rights to palestinians....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? A dissenting politician is going to joint the current Gaza flotilla....a knesset commitee just voted to 'punish' him....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? And your outrage over the first flotilla? 19 members of the US congress just sent a letter telling John Kerry to pressure ISrael to release Palestinian CHILD prisoners....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? And for the thousands of children killed by Israeli bombs n bullets over the last few years? Take a look in the mirror, genius. I can own the fact that I do not generally find much sympathy for Israel. Why? Because they have ZERO moral high ground. Other world atrocities, on the other hand, are not something I'm silent about. Do I speak out against every atrocity? Probably not. Do you? Nice try tho. Obfuscate all you want with your claims of complexity, no one is buying that excuse any longer. The israeli government has zero interest in negotiations - pure stall tactics every time they come to the table. So we're left with anti-semetic BDS. According to the above, it looks like 50% of the world business community (who dealt with Israel before last year) is anti-semetic. Sucks for ISrael, eh?
So much propaganda and ignorance here. Not even worth answering. Keep yelling in your echo chamber.
What? Propaganda? Drowned out?? Ya right. You act like he's being paid to spread propaganda. Oh wait, that's what Israel does. My bad.
Wait. Turning over more land? Look at a map of borders in 1966 then one of israels current version. Big fucking difference.
Not much better than fucking squatters.
So history begins in 1966? Why doesn't it begin in 1947? That is what Hamas is out to achieve. Great way to completely ignore my points though. See, it's a lot easier for you to act like an indignant blowhard when commenting from 5000 miles away.
and unless you are stalking me throughout the enitre internet , you have no idea what I am passionate about or comment on. so blow hard on that.
The guy has not posted in a single thread on the train that doesn't involve Israel. Not one. yet he accuses us of being singular in our criticism. I sometimes wonder if Israel's supporters all took some kind of course on doublethink....
Palestinian Authority submits evidence of alleged Israeli crimes to ICC The PA submitted dossiers on the Gaza conflict, Israeli settlements and the treatment of Palestinian prisoners in Israel June 25, 2015 1:29PM ET
The Palestinian Authority made its first submission of evidence of alleged Israeli war crimes to the International Criminal Court on Thursday, trying to speed up an ICC inquiry into abuses committed during last year's Gaza conflict.
The move may leave Israel in a quandary since it must decide whether to cooperate with the ICC investigation or find itself isolated as one of a very few countries that have declined to work with its prosecutors.
Israel denies allegations of war crimes by its forces during the 2014 Gaza war and accuses Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip, of atrocities in firing thousands of rockets at Israeli population centers.
Standing outside the ICC after meeting the court's chief prosecutor Fatou Bensouda, Palestinian Foreign Minister Riyad al-Maliki said he had submitted dossiers on the Gaza conflict, Israeli settlements on occupied land where Palestinians seek a state and treatment of Palestinian prisoners held by Israel. Thumbnail image for How does ICC membership change Palestinian legal options? How does ICC membership change Palestinian legal options?
As Palestine joins the international court, Al Jazeera explains the legal implications for both sides of the conflict
"Palestine is a test for the credibility of international mechanisms ... a test the world cannot afford to fail. Palestine has decided to seek justice, not vengeance," Maliki said.
An Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman said, "The Palestinian move is nothing more than an attempt to manipulate the ICC, and we hope that the prosecutor will not fall into the trap."
A cease-fire in August ended 50 days of fighting between Palestinian groups and Israel in which health officials said more than 2,100 Palestinians, mostly civilians, were killed. Israel put the number of its dead at 67 soldiers and six civilians.
U.N. investigators said Monday that Israel and Palestinian groups committed grave abuses of international humanitarian law during the conflict that may amount to war crimes.
The Hague-based ICC, with no police force or enforcement powers of its own, is looking into alleged crimes by both sides of the conflict but cannot compel Israel to give it information. Preliminary inquiry underway
The Palestinian Authority, which exercises limited self-rule in parts of the West Bank, joined the court in April and Bensouda has opened a preliminary investigation related to Gaza.
But Israel has substantial leverage over the course of ICC inquiries since court investigators can access sites in Gaza generally only via Israel since Gaza's one border crossing with Egypt is largely closed for security reasons. Israel also controls all crossings into the West Bank.
Maliki said he had agreed with prosecutors on a date for them to visit Palestinian territories, but did not say when. "It depends on their ability to enter Palestinian territory without problems," he said. ICC prosecutors told Reuters earlier they aimed to make field trips to both the Palestinian and Israeli sides but had not yet sought formal Israeli permission.
Israel disputed the U.N. report on possible war crimes, saying its forces had upheld the "highest international standards." Gaza's dominant Hamas group ignored the accusations against it and called for prosecutions of Israeli leaders.
As a non-member of the ICC, Israel is under no obligation to cooperate, regardless of international pressure to do so. But a boycott of prosecutors could put Israel in awkward company.
Even Russia, a foe of the ICC, has met court prosecutors related to their inquiry into alleged crimes in Russia's 2008 war with Georgia and over the events leading up to the 2014 overthrow of Ukraine's pro-Russian president.
Israel has been an outspoken critic of the ICC, saying the Palestinian Authority is not a state and should never have been admitted as an ICC member.
Israel also argues that the ICC inquiry will make it harder to reach a peace settlement with the Palestinians. Talks on a Palestinian state in territory Israel captured in a 1967 war collapsed last year, and there is little prospect of reviving them.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
The Vatican on Friday signed a historic accord with Palestine, two years after officially recognizing it as a state, in a move criticized by the Israeli Foreign Ministry.
The accord, a treaty covering the life and activity of the Church in Palestine, was the first since the Vatican recognized the Palestinian state in February 2013. The step was agreed in principle last month and condemned by Israel as a setback for the peace process.
The Foreign Ministry said Friday in response that it “regrets” the Vatican’s decision to sign the “one-sided” text.
“This hasty step damages the prospects for advancing a peace agreement, and harms the international effort to convince the PA to return to direct negotiations with Israel,” the Foreign Ministry said in a statement.
“We also regret the one-sided texts in the agreement which ignore the historic rights of the Jewish people in the Land of Israel and to the places holy to Judaism in Jerusalem. Israel cannot accept the unilateral determinations in the agreement which do not take into account Israel’s essential interests and the special historic status of the Jewish people in Jerusalem,” the statement added.
“The Palestinians continue to act unilaterally which distances us from any chance of holding direct dialogue,” said Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely.
“I regret that the Vatican decided to participate in a step that blatantly ignores the history of the Jewish people in Israel and Jerusalem. Any attempt by the Palestinians, or any other actor to undermine our historic right to Jerusalem and our country will met by staunch opposition by us,” she said.
The treaty makes clear that the Holy See has switched its diplomatic relations from the Palestinian Liberation Organization to the State of Palestine.
The Vatican had welcomed the decision by the UN General Assembly in 2012 to recognize a Palestinian state. But the treaty is the first legal document negotiated between the Holy See and the Palestinian state and constitutes an official recognition.
“Yes, it’s a recognition that the state exists,” said Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi last month.
Israeli officials criticized the Vatican announcement in May.
“We’re disappointed by the decision taken by the Holy See. We believe that such a decision is not conducive to bringing the Palestinians back to the negotiating table,” Foreign Ministry spokesperson Emmanuel Nahshon told The Times of Israel at the time.
“Israel will study the agreement and consider its next steps accordingly,” a brief statement from the ministry said.
The text of the treaty deals with essential aspects of the life and activity of the Catholic Church in Palestine, a Vatican statement said in May.
“Both parties agreed that the work of the Commission on the text of the Agreement has been concluded, and that the agreement will be submitted to the respective authorities for approval ahead of setting a date in the near future for the signing,” it noted.
The Vatican has been referring unofficially to the state of Palestine for at least a year.
During Pope Francis’ 2014 visit to the Holy Land, the Vatican’s official program referred to Abbas as the president of the “state of Palestine.” In the Vatican’s latest yearbook, the Palestinian ambassador to the Holy See is listed as representing “Palestine (state of).”
The Vatican’s foreign minister, Monsignor Antoine Camilleri, acknowledged the change in status, given that the treaty was initially inked with the PLO and is now being finalized with the “state of Palestine.” But he said the shift was simply in line with the Holy See’s position.
The Holy See clearly tried to underplay the development, suggesting that its 2012 press statement welcoming the UN vote constituted its first official recognition. Nowhere in that statement does the Vatican say it recognizes the state of Palestine, and the Holy See couldn’t vote for the UN resolution because it doesn’t have voting rights at the General Assembly.
The 2012 UN vote recognized Palestine as a non-member observer state, made up of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem, lands Israel captured in the 1967 Mideast war.
The Palestinians celebrated the vote as a milestone in their quest for international recognition. Most countries in Africa, Asia and South America have individually recognized Palestine. In Western Europe, Sweden took the step last year, while several parliaments have approved non-binding motions urging recognition.
This isn’t the first time that the Vatican under Francis has taken diplomatic moves knowing that it would please some quarters and ruffle feathers elsewhere: Just last month, he referred to the slaughter of Armenians by Turkish Ottomans a century ago as a “genocide,” prompting Turkey to recall its ambassador.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
So tell me what fucking solutions do you have?
mine is to cut that government loose. Fuck em. Stop blocking UN resolutions and hold them accountable.
Wont be long til a sunni government aquires a bomb. We'll see what happens then. maybe the moderates get to win out when that happens.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I'm sure this is fraught with issues, but my first thought on it goes like this.
1) Using the BDS movement and the ICC examination, exert global pressure to force Israeli attention to the situation at hand. America should withhold military funds from Israel, and stop sending arms to Saudi Arabia as well in the interest of impartiality. The contingency should be that any forms of aggression from external parties will resume the military funding America brings Israel. Alternatively, any aggression from Israel should sever the American/Israeli alliance.
2) Insist on a legally binding definition of the Jewish identity of Israel. If Israel is here to stay (a non-negotiable for most Israelis), then Israel as a Jewish state is here to stay. If the Jewish state is here to stay, what makes it Jewish must be defined.
3) Audit the Jewish identity of Israel. If any portion of it presents inequalities, they must be minimized first, then stricken.
4) Once the Jewish identity is defined, audit the rights that a Jew has in Israel, a non-Jew has in Israel, and a Palestinian has in the Palestinian regions. Lay out plans to normalize these rights with specific deadlines.
This is all before even discussing self-determination for the Palestinian people: this is about granting basic human rights to all humans in the region.
As an aside - of those ten little douchebags who burnt down the church, I'd bet not a single one of them had government ties, so sadly after all of this is said and done - Israel's likely in store for a civil war when those who are racist to their core will not accept each other's presence. As I've said too many times to count, this fact is likely exacerbated by the reiteration of the shit (or at least perception of shit) that each has suffered at the other's hands.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/6/19/palestinian-political-crisis-deepens-with-collapse-of-unity-government.html
My thoughts after reading the article:
-Hamas won't relinquish security control, nor actively condemn anti-Israeli violence or rhetoric, if these actions create perceived certain stagnation in a solution and/or statehood for the Palestinians. Until word from Israel comes that a solution is to be agreed upon - in writing - the violence will continue, because the resistance force will be in full throttle
-Fatah won't assist the restoration and rehabilitation of Gaza and its citizens until Hamas relinquishes security control, or actively condemns anti-Israeli violence or rhetoric
-Israel won't back a two-state solution until it perceives its situation to be safe and secure
If the national unity government is redefined with what's likely to be a Hamas/Fatah split, Here's what I think ought to happen:
1) All three parties must sit down and arrange for Hamas and Fatah to join forces and crack down on anti-Israeli violence and rhetoric, and for Israel to crack down on anti-Arab/Palestinian violence and rhetoric. An agreement on the locations of the borders of a new state of Palestine should be negotiated and defined by both the Israeli government, and Fatah and Hamas. Settlement construction must be ceased, border crossing policies must be relaxed, and restoration efforts in Gaza must be increased. BDS campaigns should be halted.
2) There must be a deadline where the security efforts of all three parties is thoroughly audited.
3) Contingent on validating significant efforts worthy of further faith from all parties, and ensuring border controls on both the Palestinian and Israeli side, the Palestinian state should be recognized by Israel and the world alike.
3a) Should Israel's efforts be deemed unacceptable by a global governing board (possibly the UN), the ongoing ramifications should be a permanent cessation of settlement construction, the cessation of condemning BDS campaigns, and a regrouping of the three parties, at the UN, to discuss a permanent solution. Essentially, it's a reset switch on this idea, with a green light for global economically unenviable sanctions, and a hard halt to expansionism in the region.
3b) Should the Palestinians' efforts be deemed unacceptable by the same global governing board, the ramifications should be the nullification of the above. Life is hard enough as a Palestinian that the maintaining of the status quo should be punishment enough.
Not one of these steps works on its own: this must be a written plan, agreed upon by all parties involved. With exceptions to any one of them, I don't see it working. With all agreed upon, its odds of success are probably just above 'crapshoot' which is better than the current 'nil'.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
http://english.pnn.ps/2015/06/24/sonic-youth-frontman-thurston-moore-cancels-concert-in-israel-in-support-of-bds/
http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/22/news/economy/john-calvin-hamas-deported/index.html?sr=fbmoney0622johncalvin0600video
Such tired bullshit....
Who are you talking to? Who supports Hamas?
These kinds of posts really do a disservice to your cause, Johnnie. You might not realize it, but anyone with a basic understanding of the occupation has an adverse reaction to people screaming anti-semite and terrorist. The constant portrayal of Israelis as victims, when there is a large and growing opinion that Israel's hawks are oppressors and war criminals (state terrorists), only reinforces that opinion. Most people with a basic understanding of current events see right thru this posturing, and recognize it as the 'politics of fear'. Which in turn makes them suspicious of ulterior motives and full of doubt about the legitimacy of the claim. So really....You are fostering support for the Palestinians when you do this. Nice work.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Foreign direct investment in Israel dropped by 50% in 2014 and expert says it’s due to the Gaza war and BDS
http://mondoweiss.net/2015/06/foreign-investment-dropped#sthash.v1kCy0zZ.dpuf
Foreign direct investment in Israel dropped by 50% in 2014 according to a 2015 World Investment Report issued yesterday by the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development.
Newsweek reports: Foreign investment in Israel drops by 50%
Foreign direct investment (FDI) in Israel dropped by almost 50% last year in comparison to the year before as the country continues to feel the effects of last summer’s Gaza conflict, a new UN report has revealed.
The report, published by the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD), shows that only €5.7bn was invested into the country in 2014 in comparison with €10.5bn in 2013, a decrease of €4.8bn, or 46%. Israel’s FDI in other countries also decreased by 15%, from €4.2bn in in 2013 to €3.5bn last year.
Newsweek cites one of the authors of the report, Dr. Ronny Manos from the Open University of Israel, as speculating the declining investment is fallout from the Israeli military onslaught on Gaza last summer and “international boycotts” against Israel for “alleged violations of international law.” Ynet adds that, according to Manos, “these are only conjectures that can explain the sharp decline”
As we reported in 2013 investment committees for European banks were considering recommending their institutions bar loans to Israeli companies that have economic links with the Palestinian occupied territories. At the time Haaretz reported the investment committees “submit a report to their clients with recommendations about where to invest − and where not to invest. The process of examining the Israeli companies that operate in West Bank settlements involved the exercise of due diligence.”
From Haaretz:
According to the report that landed on the relevant desks here, a large number of those investment committees considered recommending to the banks to prohibit loans or aid of any kind to Israeli companies that operate in the West Bank − manufacturing there, selling their products, building homes and so forth − and also to Israeli banks that grant mortgages to home builders or buyers across the Green Line
Investment committees do not issue recommendations to boycott or sanction per se. They make prudent investment recommendations and in the case of Israel, a recommendation of this nature functions more as a warning to investors that profiting off the occupation, a business could become ensnared in being complicit and held legally responsible for crimes against international law.
Speaking of which, Palestine’s foreign minister Riad Malki visited the Hague today in his official capacity and submitted files to prosecutors at the International Criminal Court (ICC) charging Israeli with war crimes, the crime of apartheid, and other charges.
As an investor, it’s merely a matter of common sense not attaching your business to a potential minefield of liability.
What do all of you geniuses think would happen if Israel pulled out of the entire West Bank and removed every last Israeli citizen? (The fact that Arabs are allowed to remain in Israel but the Palestinians are allowed to keep their areas Judenrein smacks of REAL apartheid, but I digress.)
Well, let's examine what happened when Israel pulled out of Gaza. What did they get? Did they get a step closer to peace? Did they get "this is a nice start, let's get back to the table for serious talks?" No. They got Islamic Fascism. The type that launches 12,000 rockets, the type that hangs and tortures gays, that supports "honor killings" of women, arrests or murders political dissenters, destroys sites holy to other religions. Don't you think Israel should hesitate just for a moment before turning over more land to these people?
Not much better than fucking squatters.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
The longer Israel hesitates, the more desperate Palestinians get, the more support Hamas gets. What is so difficult to understand here?
How did the withdrawal affect quality of life in Gaza? You talk as if the withdrawal resulted in an autonomous state with everything a person could ask for, and those ungrateful animals decided they'd rather have war than peace in their own little utopia.
Would it make you feel better if I said I don't support religious extremism? That includes those who use it to promote indiscriminate attacks, torture of gays, honor killings, arrest of political dissenters, and destroyers of holy sites....which btw, applies to Jewish extremists as well - many of whom reside in the Knesset.
If you go to the bottom of the previous page, you'll see an article about Jews destroying a holy site....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? Further back in the article, there are quotes I posted from knesset members which call for ethnic cleansing and denial of rights to palestinians....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? A dissenting politician is going to joint the current Gaza flotilla....a knesset commitee just voted to 'punish' him....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? And your outrage over the first flotilla? 19 members of the US congress just sent a letter telling John Kerry to pressure ISrael to release Palestinian CHILD prisoners....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? And for the thousands of children killed by Israeli bombs n bullets over the last few years? Take a look in the mirror, genius. I can own the fact that I do not generally find much sympathy for Israel. Why? Because they have ZERO moral high ground. Other world atrocities, on the other hand, are not something I'm silent about. Do I speak out against every atrocity? Probably not. Do you? Nice try tho.
Obfuscate all you want with your claims of complexity, no one is buying that excuse any longer. The israeli government has zero interest in negotiations - pure stall tactics every time they come to the table. So we're left with anti-semetic BDS. According to the above, it looks like 50% of the world business community (who dealt with Israel before last year) is anti-semetic. Sucks for ISrael, eh?
and unless you are stalking me throughout the enitre internet , you have no idea what I am passionate about or comment on. so blow hard on that.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Semite
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/6/25/palestinian-authority-submits-first-case-material-against-israel-to-icc.html?utm_content=nobylines&utm_campaign=ajam&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=SocialFlow
Palestinian Authority submits evidence of alleged Israeli crimes to ICC
The PA submitted dossiers on the Gaza conflict, Israeli settlements and the treatment of Palestinian prisoners in Israel
June 25, 2015 1:29PM ET
The Palestinian Authority made its first submission of evidence of alleged Israeli war crimes to the International Criminal Court on Thursday, trying to speed up an ICC inquiry into abuses committed during last year's Gaza conflict.
The move may leave Israel in a quandary since it must decide whether to cooperate with the ICC investigation or find itself isolated as one of a very few countries that have declined to work with its prosecutors.
Israel denies allegations of war crimes by its forces during the 2014 Gaza war and accuses Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip, of atrocities in firing thousands of rockets at Israeli population centers.
Standing outside the ICC after meeting the court's chief prosecutor Fatou Bensouda, Palestinian Foreign Minister Riyad al-Maliki said he had submitted dossiers on the Gaza conflict, Israeli settlements on occupied land where Palestinians seek a state and treatment of Palestinian prisoners held by Israel.
Thumbnail image for How does ICC membership change Palestinian legal options?
How does ICC membership change Palestinian legal options?
As Palestine joins the international court, Al Jazeera explains the legal implications for both sides of the conflict
"Palestine is a test for the credibility of international mechanisms ... a test the world cannot afford to fail. Palestine has decided to seek justice, not vengeance," Maliki said.
An Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman said, "The Palestinian move is nothing more than an attempt to manipulate the ICC, and we hope that the prosecutor will not fall into the trap."
A cease-fire in August ended 50 days of fighting between Palestinian groups and Israel in which health officials said more than 2,100 Palestinians, mostly civilians, were killed. Israel put the number of its dead at 67 soldiers and six civilians.
U.N. investigators said Monday that Israel and Palestinian groups committed grave abuses of international humanitarian law during the conflict that may amount to war crimes.
The Hague-based ICC, with no police force or enforcement powers of its own, is looking into alleged crimes by both sides of the conflict but cannot compel Israel to give it information.
Preliminary inquiry underway
The Palestinian Authority, which exercises limited self-rule in parts of the West Bank, joined the court in April and Bensouda has opened a preliminary investigation related to Gaza.
But Israel has substantial leverage over the course of ICC inquiries since court investigators can access sites in Gaza generally only via Israel since Gaza's one border crossing with Egypt is largely closed for security reasons. Israel also controls all crossings into the West Bank.
Maliki said he had agreed with prosecutors on a date for them to visit Palestinian territories, but did not say when. "It depends on their ability to enter Palestinian territory without problems," he said. ICC prosecutors told Reuters earlier they aimed to make field trips to both the Palestinian and Israeli sides but had not yet sought formal Israeli permission.
Israel disputed the U.N. report on possible war crimes, saying its forces had upheld the "highest international standards." Gaza's dominant Hamas group ignored the accusations against it and called for prosecutions of Israeli leaders.
As a non-member of the ICC, Israel is under no obligation to cooperate, regardless of international pressure to do so. But a boycott of prosecutors could put Israel in awkward company.
Even Russia, a foe of the ICC, has met court prosecutors related to their inquiry into alleged crimes in Russia's 2008 war with Georgia and over the events leading up to the 2014 overthrow of Ukraine's pro-Russian president.
Israel has been an outspoken critic of the ICC, saying the Palestinian Authority is not a state and should never have been admitted as an ICC member.
Israel also argues that the ICC inquiry will make it harder to reach a peace settlement with the Palestinians. Talks on a Palestinian state in territory Israel captured in a 1967 war collapsed last year, and there is little prospect of reviving them.
Reuters
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
http://www.timesofisrael.com/vatican-signs-treaty-recognizing-state-of-palestine/
The Vatican on Friday signed a historic accord with Palestine, two years after officially recognizing it as a state, in a move criticized by the Israeli Foreign Ministry.
The accord, a treaty covering the life and activity of the Church in Palestine, was the first since the Vatican recognized the Palestinian state in February 2013. The step was agreed in principle last month and condemned by Israel as a setback for the peace process.
The Foreign Ministry said Friday in response that it “regrets” the Vatican’s decision to sign the “one-sided” text.
“This hasty step damages the prospects for advancing a peace agreement, and harms the international effort to convince the PA to return to direct negotiations with Israel,” the Foreign Ministry said in a statement.
“We also regret the one-sided texts in the agreement which ignore the historic rights of the Jewish people in the Land of Israel and to the places holy to Judaism in Jerusalem. Israel cannot accept the unilateral determinations in the agreement which do not take into account Israel’s essential interests and the special historic status of the Jewish people in Jerusalem,” the statement added.
“The Palestinians continue to act unilaterally which distances us from any chance of holding direct dialogue,” said Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely.
“I regret that the Vatican decided to participate in a step that blatantly ignores the history of the Jewish people in Israel and Jerusalem. Any attempt by the Palestinians, or any other actor to undermine our historic right to Jerusalem and our country will met by staunch opposition by us,” she said.
The treaty makes clear that the Holy See has switched its diplomatic relations from the Palestinian Liberation Organization to the State of Palestine.
The Vatican had welcomed the decision by the UN General Assembly in 2012 to recognize a Palestinian state. But the treaty is the first legal document negotiated between the Holy See and the Palestinian state and constitutes an official recognition.
“Yes, it’s a recognition that the state exists,” said Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi last month.
Israeli officials criticized the Vatican announcement in May.
“We’re disappointed by the decision taken by the Holy See. We believe that such a decision is not conducive to bringing the Palestinians back to the negotiating table,” Foreign Ministry spokesperson Emmanuel Nahshon told The Times of Israel at the time.
“Israel will study the agreement and consider its next steps accordingly,” a brief statement from the ministry said.
The text of the treaty deals with essential aspects of the life and activity of the Catholic Church in Palestine, a Vatican statement said in May.
“Both parties agreed that the work of the Commission on the text of the Agreement has been concluded, and that the agreement will be submitted to the respective authorities for approval ahead of setting a date in the near future for the signing,” it noted.
The Vatican has been referring unofficially to the state of Palestine for at least a year.
During Pope Francis’ 2014 visit to the Holy Land, the Vatican’s official program referred to Abbas as the president of the “state of Palestine.” In the Vatican’s latest yearbook, the Palestinian ambassador to the Holy See is listed as representing “Palestine (state of).”
The Vatican’s foreign minister, Monsignor Antoine Camilleri, acknowledged the change in status, given that the treaty was initially inked with the PLO and is now being finalized with the “state of Palestine.” But he said the shift was simply in line with the Holy See’s position.
The Holy See clearly tried to underplay the development, suggesting that its 2012 press statement welcoming the UN vote constituted its first official recognition. Nowhere in that statement does the Vatican say it recognizes the state of Palestine, and the Holy See couldn’t vote for the UN resolution because it doesn’t have voting rights at the General Assembly.
The 2012 UN vote recognized Palestine as a non-member observer state, made up of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem, lands Israel captured in the 1967 Mideast war.
The Palestinians celebrated the vote as a milestone in their quest for international recognition. Most countries in Africa, Asia and South America have individually recognized Palestine. In Western Europe, Sweden took the step last year, while several parliaments have approved non-binding motions urging recognition.
This isn’t the first time that the Vatican under Francis has taken diplomatic moves knowing that it would please some quarters and ruffle feathers elsewhere: Just last month, he referred to the slaughter of Armenians by Turkish Ottomans a century ago as a “genocide,” prompting Turkey to recall its ambassador.
Raphael Ahren, AP contributed to this report.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14