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Meanwhile back in Israel

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  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,389
    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    Nart, he's right. You need to take a step back and consider the posts, not the poster. I get that there's animosity between the two of you (and I refuse to read into it any more than that), but this is a discussion about facts. The statement that I posted, which BS agreed to, suggested a few things:

    -Obama believes in the right to criticize Israel for everything except its right to exist in some fashion
    -Those who criticize Israel do so just loudly enough as not to be morally reprehensible humans, and just quietly enough as not to actually drive change
    -There is precedent in the notion that Israel does not have concern for the well-being of the Palestinian people
    -The Palestinian people exist today (at all) because Israel fears the global isolation which would stem from a genocide at their hands
    -Israel's assistance in repairing a society crippled by Israel itself has been no better than the bare acceptable minimum

    You may not like his tone, or the way he goes about making his points, but BS just agreed with things that I had always assumed you and I agree on (at least partially). This was not said with any arrogance, or any bigotry - it was just a simple "I agree".

    I thought this "I agree" was pretty clear but I do take tissue with any critique of my "tone". My tone is tight.
    I personally don't mind your tone for the most part. I also don't think criticisms of one's tone are out of line, however... I assume people have issue with mine and that's totally cool with me.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    yosi said:

    badbrains said:
    You do realize, don't you, that these are all just links to the journalism that the article I posted was discussing. It's like responding to a critique of the Rolling Stone UVA rape story by posting a link to the Rolling Stone UVA rape story.
    Wait, they admit they did it, got some flack for it, changes their story so that means it DIDNT happen now? All is good now? We should forget the shit that's happening now to NOT only the Palestinians but also the Ethiopian Jews in Israel? Everything's ok because yosi says so. Because yosi posts some links to retract a story that they themselves admitted doing not long ago. Amazing. People of other countries ought to start doing the same thing when it comes to their own history. Don't like a story about your country, fuck it, rewrite it to benefit your goals. Smart. Other countries need to follow.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    yosi said:

    So interested to see what you all do with this story:

    Likud Lawmaker Sponsors Bill Mandating Arabic Education in Israeli Schools
    Support pours in from left and right, as well as Israeli President Rivlin

    By Yair Rosenberg|May 29, 2015

    It’s safe to say that Likud MK Oren Hazan never expected to be in the Knesset at all. Ranked 30th on his party’s list, in a slot reserved for a youth candidate, Hazan was never projected by any pre-election polls to make it into Israel’s parliament. But after Likud’s surprisingly decisive victory garnered it 30 seats, Hazan found himself the beneficiary of the party’s electoral fortune. And this week, he began to flex his legislative muscles with a surprising proposal that has garnered support across the political spectrum: a bill that mandates early Arabic language education in Israeli schools.

    Hazan, 33, is a bit of a loose cannon, and certainly no bleeding heart. He lives in the controversial settlement city of Ariel, and is the son of conservative former Knesset member Yehiel Hazan. Earlier this year, the younger Hazan submitted a false Gaza war testimony to the anti-occupation group Breaking the Silence, with the aim of exposing their purportedly poor collection methods. (The ruse failed.) This background makes Hazan an unlikely champion for coexistence education reform, but that is the subject of his first major bill.

    Hazan’s legislation would require Arabic to be taught in Jewish schools beginning in the first grade. “Just as you won’t find an Arab citizen who doesn’t know Hebrew after completing 12 years of formal education,” he said, “so too, it’s inconceivable that we maintain a status quo in which a Jew who has completed 12 years schooling doesn’t know how to speak Arabic.”

    Hazan’s proposal also includes a parallel Hebrew program for Arab schools, though as he noted, most Arab citizens of Israel learn Hebrew as a manner of course.

    Learning Arabic, Hazan wrote in the bill’s text, “will allow students and citizens to understand one another.” Moreover, he added, “knowing the language of the other is the basis for understanding and mutual respect, which are necessary in the current situation in Israel.”

    Hazan explicitly linked the impetus for his bill to a recently aborted program to separate Jews and Palestinians on buses in the West Bank, chalking the push for the widely-panned plan down to fear. “In our daily reality, with Jews riding the buses in Judea and Samaria and hearing the Palestinians, they are usually afraid,” Hazan said. “With global terrorism and radical Islam on the rise, the lack of knowledge and understanding leads to fear.” Hazan’s hope is that Arabic education would enable Israelis to talk to Palestinians and dispel debilitating misconceptions. “Knowing the language and being able to communicate with different people can increase our sense of security and serve as a bridge between people,” he said.

    If adopted, Hazan’s proposal would dramatically bolster Arabic study among Israeli Jews from an early age. As the Times of Israel noted, “under the Israeli educational guidelines, Jewish schools are supposed to teach three hours of Arabic a week to 7th-10th graders. However, the directive is not strictly enforced and many institutions do not offer classes.”

    The Likud lawmaker’s bill has been endorsed by a wide array of figures across Israel’s ideological map, and has been signed by Knesset members from the far-left Meretz to the far-right Jewish Home. Yesterday, Israeli President Reuven Rivlin, who is a former Likud Speaker of the Knesset, came out in favor of the legislation’s essence in a speech before the leadership of Israel’s Center for a Shared Society.

    “When we seek confidence-building measures between Jews and Arabs, we must work to nurture the positive identities of each side, and from within these identities, reach out to the other’s culture and story,” he said. “Such outreach is first and foremost found in language. The Hebrew language must be learned to perfection by the Arabic population, but the time has come, that also the Arabic language will be learned by the Jewish population. Language leads from the ear to the heart.” (Rivlin, who speaks Arabic, made multiple references in his speech to Palestinian national poet Mahmoud Darwish, in a clear effort to model the discourse he hoped to see.)

    Given its diverse backing, Hazan’s bill appears likely to pass, though its details are still being negotiated. Its enactment would mark a rare bright spot in what has been a trying year for Jewish-Arab relations in Israel.

    Meanwhile, more settlements are being built. Bravo, hey, let's pass a law mandating Arabic being taught in Israeli schools. That'll shut them up while we steal more of their land. Awesome
  • yosiyosi Posts: 2,213
    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:
    You do realize, don't you, that these are all just links to the journalism that the article I posted was discussing. It's like responding to a critique of the Rolling Stone UVA rape story by posting a link to the Rolling Stone UVA rape story.
    Wait, they admit they did it, got some flack for it, changes their story so that means it DIDNT happen now? All is good now? We should forget the shit that's happening now to NOT only the Palestinians but also the Ethiopian Jews in Israel? Everything's ok because yosi says so. Because yosi posts some links to retract a story that they themselves admitted doing not long ago. Amazing. People of other countries ought to start doing the same thing when it comes to their own history. Don't like a story about your country, fuck it, rewrite it to benefit your goals. Smart. Other countries need to follow.
    Do you bother to read the articles? The government never admitted anything. It issued a directive to doctors instructing them to make certain they had informed consent from their patients. Haaretz misreported this and then issued a correction. Please try to actually read the articles or (shocker) do just a little bit of research before posting on subjects you evidently don't know about.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • yosiyosi Posts: 2,213
    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    So interested to see what you all do with this story:

    Likud Lawmaker Sponsors Bill Mandating Arabic Education in Israeli Schools
    Support pours in from left and right, as well as Israeli President Rivlin

    By Yair Rosenberg|May 29, 2015

    It’s safe to say that Likud MK Oren Hazan never expected to be in the Knesset at all. Ranked 30th on his party’s list, in a slot reserved for a youth candidate, Hazan was never projected by any pre-election polls to make it into Israel’s parliament. But after Likud’s surprisingly decisive victory garnered it 30 seats, Hazan found himself the beneficiary of the party’s electoral fortune. And this week, he began to flex his legislative muscles with a surprising proposal that has garnered support across the political spectrum: a bill that mandates early Arabic language education in Israeli schools.

    Hazan, 33, is a bit of a loose cannon, and certainly no bleeding heart. He lives in the controversial settlement city of Ariel, and is the son of conservative former Knesset member Yehiel Hazan. Earlier this year, the younger Hazan submitted a false Gaza war testimony to the anti-occupation group Breaking the Silence, with the aim of exposing their purportedly poor collection methods. (The ruse failed.) This background makes Hazan an unlikely champion for coexistence education reform, but that is the subject of his first major bill.

    Hazan’s legislation would require Arabic to be taught in Jewish schools beginning in the first grade. “Just as you won’t find an Arab citizen who doesn’t know Hebrew after completing 12 years of formal education,” he said, “so too, it’s inconceivable that we maintain a status quo in which a Jew who has completed 12 years schooling doesn’t know how to speak Arabic.”

    Hazan’s proposal also includes a parallel Hebrew program for Arab schools, though as he noted, most Arab citizens of Israel learn Hebrew as a manner of course.

    Learning Arabic, Hazan wrote in the bill’s text, “will allow students and citizens to understand one another.” Moreover, he added, “knowing the language of the other is the basis for understanding and mutual respect, which are necessary in the current situation in Israel.”

    Hazan explicitly linked the impetus for his bill to a recently aborted program to separate Jews and Palestinians on buses in the West Bank, chalking the push for the widely-panned plan down to fear. “In our daily reality, with Jews riding the buses in Judea and Samaria and hearing the Palestinians, they are usually afraid,” Hazan said. “With global terrorism and radical Islam on the rise, the lack of knowledge and understanding leads to fear.” Hazan’s hope is that Arabic education would enable Israelis to talk to Palestinians and dispel debilitating misconceptions. “Knowing the language and being able to communicate with different people can increase our sense of security and serve as a bridge between people,” he said.

    If adopted, Hazan’s proposal would dramatically bolster Arabic study among Israeli Jews from an early age. As the Times of Israel noted, “under the Israeli educational guidelines, Jewish schools are supposed to teach three hours of Arabic a week to 7th-10th graders. However, the directive is not strictly enforced and many institutions do not offer classes.”

    The Likud lawmaker’s bill has been endorsed by a wide array of figures across Israel’s ideological map, and has been signed by Knesset members from the far-left Meretz to the far-right Jewish Home. Yesterday, Israeli President Reuven Rivlin, who is a former Likud Speaker of the Knesset, came out in favor of the legislation’s essence in a speech before the leadership of Israel’s Center for a Shared Society.

    “When we seek confidence-building measures between Jews and Arabs, we must work to nurture the positive identities of each side, and from within these identities, reach out to the other’s culture and story,” he said. “Such outreach is first and foremost found in language. The Hebrew language must be learned to perfection by the Arabic population, but the time has come, that also the Arabic language will be learned by the Jewish population. Language leads from the ear to the heart.” (Rivlin, who speaks Arabic, made multiple references in his speech to Palestinian national poet Mahmoud Darwish, in a clear effort to model the discourse he hoped to see.)

    Given its diverse backing, Hazan’s bill appears likely to pass, though its details are still being negotiated. Its enactment would mark a rare bright spot in what has been a trying year for Jewish-Arab relations in Israel.

    Meanwhile, more settlements are being built. Bravo, hey, let's pass a law mandating Arabic being taught in Israeli schools. That'll shut them up while we steal more of their land. Awesome
    The expected and utterly depressing response. Can't you please try to say something surprising? Everything you say is so distressingly predictable. It's almost as if you're writing without doing any thinking first.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    So interested to see what you all do with this story:

    Likud Lawmaker Sponsors Bill Mandating Arabic Education in Israeli Schools
    Support pours in from left and right, as well as Israeli President Rivlin

    By Yair Rosenberg|May 29, 2015

    It’s safe to say that Likud MK Oren Hazan never expected to be in the Knesset at all. Ranked 30th on his party’s list, in a slot reserved for a youth candidate, Hazan was never projected by any pre-election polls to make it into Israel’s parliament. But after Likud’s surprisingly decisive victory garnered it 30 seats, Hazan found himself the beneficiary of the party’s electoral fortune. And this week, he began to flex his legislative muscles with a surprising proposal that has garnered support across the political spectrum: a bill that mandates early Arabic language education in Israeli schools.

    Hazan, 33, is a bit of a loose cannon, and certainly no bleeding heart. He lives in the controversial settlement city of Ariel, and is the son of conservative former Knesset member Yehiel Hazan. Earlier this year, the younger Hazan submitted a false Gaza war testimony to the anti-occupation group Breaking the Silence, with the aim of exposing their purportedly poor collection methods. (The ruse failed.) This background makes Hazan an unlikely champion for coexistence education reform, but that is the subject of his first major bill.

    Hazan’s legislation would require Arabic to be taught in Jewish schools beginning in the first grade. “Just as you won’t find an Arab citizen who doesn’t know Hebrew after completing 12 years of formal education,” he said, “so too, it’s inconceivable that we maintain a status quo in which a Jew who has completed 12 years schooling doesn’t know how to speak Arabic.”

    Hazan’s proposal also includes a parallel Hebrew program for Arab schools, though as he noted, most Arab citizens of Israel learn Hebrew as a manner of course.

    Learning Arabic, Hazan wrote in the bill’s text, “will allow students and citizens to understand one another.” Moreover, he added, “knowing the language of the other is the basis for understanding and mutual respect, which are necessary in the current situation in Israel.”

    Hazan explicitly linked the impetus for his bill to a recently aborted program to separate Jews and Palestinians on buses in the West Bank, chalking the push for the widely-panned plan down to fear. “In our daily reality, with Jews riding the buses in Judea and Samaria and hearing the Palestinians, they are usually afraid,” Hazan said. “With global terrorism and radical Islam on the rise, the lack of knowledge and understanding leads to fear.” Hazan’s hope is that Arabic education would enable Israelis to talk to Palestinians and dispel debilitating misconceptions. “Knowing the language and being able to communicate with different people can increase our sense of security and serve as a bridge between people,” he said.

    If adopted, Hazan’s proposal would dramatically bolster Arabic study among Israeli Jews from an early age. As the Times of Israel noted, “under the Israeli educational guidelines, Jewish schools are supposed to teach three hours of Arabic a week to 7th-10th graders. However, the directive is not strictly enforced and many institutions do not offer classes.”

    The Likud lawmaker’s bill has been endorsed by a wide array of figures across Israel’s ideological map, and has been signed by Knesset members from the far-left Meretz to the far-right Jewish Home. Yesterday, Israeli President Reuven Rivlin, who is a former Likud Speaker of the Knesset, came out in favor of the legislation’s essence in a speech before the leadership of Israel’s Center for a Shared Society.

    “When we seek confidence-building measures between Jews and Arabs, we must work to nurture the positive identities of each side, and from within these identities, reach out to the other’s culture and story,” he said. “Such outreach is first and foremost found in language. The Hebrew language must be learned to perfection by the Arabic population, but the time has come, that also the Arabic language will be learned by the Jewish population. Language leads from the ear to the heart.” (Rivlin, who speaks Arabic, made multiple references in his speech to Palestinian national poet Mahmoud Darwish, in a clear effort to model the discourse he hoped to see.)

    Given its diverse backing, Hazan’s bill appears likely to pass, though its details are still being negotiated. Its enactment would mark a rare bright spot in what has been a trying year for Jewish-Arab relations in Israel.

    Meanwhile, more settlements are being built. Bravo, hey, let's pass a law mandating Arabic being taught in Israeli schools. That'll shut them up while we steal more of their land. Awesome
    The expected and utterly depressing response. Can't you please try to say something surprising? Everything you say is so distressingly predictable. It's almost as if you're writing without doing any thinking first.
    Speaking of predictable.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    So interested to see what you all do with this story:

    Likud Lawmaker Sponsors Bill Mandating Arabic Education in Israeli Schools
    Support pours in from left and right, as well as Israeli President Rivlin

    By Yair Rosenberg|May 29, 2015

    It’s safe to say that Likud MK Oren Hazan never expected to be in the Knesset at all. Ranked 30th on his party’s list, in a slot reserved for a youth candidate, Hazan was never projected by any pre-election polls to make it into Israel’s parliament. But after Likud’s surprisingly decisive victory garnered it 30 seats, Hazan found himself the beneficiary of the party’s electoral fortune. And this week, he began to flex his legislative muscles with a surprising proposal that has garnered support across the political spectrum: a bill that mandates early Arabic language education in Israeli schools.

    Hazan, 33, is a bit of a loose cannon, and certainly no bleeding heart. He lives in the controversial settlement city of Ariel, and is the son of conservative former Knesset member Yehiel Hazan. Earlier this year, the younger Hazan submitted a false Gaza war testimony to the anti-occupation group Breaking the Silence, with the aim of exposing their purportedly poor collection methods. (The ruse failed.) This background makes Hazan an unlikely champion for coexistence education reform, but that is the subject of his first major bill.

    Hazan’s legislation would require Arabic to be taught in Jewish schools beginning in the first grade. “Just as you won’t find an Arab citizen who doesn’t know Hebrew after completing 12 years of formal education,” he said, “so too, it’s inconceivable that we maintain a status quo in which a Jew who has completed 12 years schooling doesn’t know how to speak Arabic.”

    Hazan’s proposal also includes a parallel Hebrew program for Arab schools, though as he noted, most Arab citizens of Israel learn Hebrew as a manner of course.

    Learning Arabic, Hazan wrote in the bill’s text, “will allow students and citizens to understand one another.” Moreover, he added, “knowing the language of the other is the basis for understanding and mutual respect, which are necessary in the current situation in Israel.”

    Hazan explicitly linked the impetus for his bill to a recently aborted program to separate Jews and Palestinians on buses in the West Bank, chalking the push for the widely-panned plan down to fear. “In our daily reality, with Jews riding the buses in Judea and Samaria and hearing the Palestinians, they are usually afraid,” Hazan said. “With global terrorism and radical Islam on the rise, the lack of knowledge and understanding leads to fear.” Hazan’s hope is that Arabic education would enable Israelis to talk to Palestinians and dispel debilitating misconceptions. “Knowing the language and being able to communicate with different people can increase our sense of security and serve as a bridge between people,” he said.

    If adopted, Hazan’s proposal would dramatically bolster Arabic study among Israeli Jews from an early age. As the Times of Israel noted, “under the Israeli educational guidelines, Jewish schools are supposed to teach three hours of Arabic a week to 7th-10th graders. However, the directive is not strictly enforced and many institutions do not offer classes.”

    The Likud lawmaker’s bill has been endorsed by a wide array of figures across Israel’s ideological map, and has been signed by Knesset members from the far-left Meretz to the far-right Jewish Home. Yesterday, Israeli President Reuven Rivlin, who is a former Likud Speaker of the Knesset, came out in favor of the legislation’s essence in a speech before the leadership of Israel’s Center for a Shared Society.

    “When we seek confidence-building measures between Jews and Arabs, we must work to nurture the positive identities of each side, and from within these identities, reach out to the other’s culture and story,” he said. “Such outreach is first and foremost found in language. The Hebrew language must be learned to perfection by the Arabic population, but the time has come, that also the Arabic language will be learned by the Jewish population. Language leads from the ear to the heart.” (Rivlin, who speaks Arabic, made multiple references in his speech to Palestinian national poet Mahmoud Darwish, in a clear effort to model the discourse he hoped to see.)

    Given its diverse backing, Hazan’s bill appears likely to pass, though its details are still being negotiated. Its enactment would mark a rare bright spot in what has been a trying year for Jewish-Arab relations in Israel.

    Meanwhile, more settlements are being built. Bravo, hey, let's pass a law mandating Arabic being taught in Israeli schools. That'll shut them up while we steal more of their land. Awesome
    The expected and utterly depressing response. Can't you please try to say something surprising? Everything you say is so distressingly predictable. It's almost as if you're writing without doing any thinking first.
    You baited with the article, I took the bait and bit. You got butt hurt at my response. You posted the article with "so interested to see what you all do with this".
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082
    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    Nart, he's right. You need to take a step back and consider the posts, not the poster. I get that there's animosity between the two of you (and I refuse to read into it any more than that), but this is a discussion about facts. The statement that I posted, which BS agreed to, suggested a few things:

    -Obama believes in the right to criticize Israel for everything except its right to exist in some fashion
    -Those who criticize Israel do so just loudly enough as not to be morally reprehensible humans, and just quietly enough as not to actually drive change
    -There is precedent in the notion that Israel does not have concern for the well-being of the Palestinian people
    -The Palestinian people exist today (at all) because Israel fears the global isolation which would stem from a genocide at their hands
    -Israel's assistance in repairing a society crippled by Israel itself has been no better than the bare acceptable minimum

    You may not like his tone, or the way he goes about making his points, but BS just agreed with things that I had always assumed you and I agree on (at least partially). This was not said with any arrogance, or any bigotry - it was just a simple "I agree".

    I thought this "I agree" was pretty clear but I do take tissue with any critique of my "tone". My tone is tight.
    I personally don't mind your tone for the most part. I also don't think criticisms of one's tone are out of line, however... I assume people have issue with mine and that's totally cool with me.
    I don't have an issue with yours and I certainly don't mind the criticism. That comment was for the most part a joke.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    edited May 2015
    And then you have this. So much for being allowed to criticize Israel.

    http://www.carbonated.tv/news/website-targets-pro-palestinian-students-to-thwart-job-prospects
    Post edited by badbrains on
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,048
    yosi said:

    yosi said:

    You're amazing. Someone makes a wild assertion, unsupported by any evidence, based on an utterly false and discredited story, and you immediately accept it as the truth because it confirms your hateful biases. The article below is from 2013. I especially like the prophetic bit at the end, which is especially apt here:




    Is it utterly false and discredited? I wrote my last post lying in bed last night, and fell asleep before I could confirm or deny the allegations....I remembered the birth control story when reading your post about israel being 'normal' in their handling of ethiopian immigrants. I googled to confirm I was remembering the story correctly....found versions of the initial Haaretz story that had been carried by many 'credible' major outlets, and posted in haste. Of course, with any unproven story, I'd have been wise to have checked for more recent updates. Once I realized I hadn't followed up the story, I tried googling to see if the claims were ever investigated...because yes, I only remembered the initial allegations, and yes, I'm fully aware of the way this kind of thing grows legs and sticks around even if it is challenged. I did find articles that said Haaretz had walked back the claim that the Israeli government had admitted that birth control was forced on ethiopian immigrants. At that time, Israel did issue a statement to doctors to tell them not to administer birth control unless the women knew exactly what it was they were receiving....an odd statement to make (common sense?) at that particular time....even if the statement was not an admission, it still smelled like trying to 'get in front' of a problem...and that is what led to the poor overreach by Haaretz. The correction does show that the article wasn't substantiated by the government, but it doesn't make the allegations false. I found articles that said an investigation would be undertaken by a rabbi from Likud, complaining that the man they put in charge had opposed bringing the ethiopians to israel from the start...but then the trail went cold. I read a number of articles before passing out....I never did find my answer, and don't have time to keep digging today at work. Was this investigation ever completed? Not that I would trust an internal investigation by any government agency. Still, it was apparent from the minute I started googling that I had to add a caveat to my post, so I did. Was this a policy initiative? Highly unlikely. Could it have been an unofficial undertaking in the transfer camps? Possibly. Could it have been a few racist doctors, manipulating these women? Possibly. And could it have been an overzealous documentarian looking for a sensational story? Again, possibly.
    For the record - i never inferred anything about forced sterilization. although I am aware that some news outlets 'went there' after that documentary aired. I also knew that you would waste no time discrediting the story and I would be raked over the coals by the time I woke up...funny (but not surprising) considering how long it took you to answer mickey's question, and how often you post here these days.
    I have to wonder what the incentive was for Israel's ethiopian migrant initiatives. Was it a demographic thing? Whole-hearted benevolence?
    Or maybe just warm bodies for settlement expansion projects? I'd be curious to see where the public housing they received was located...couldn't find any info on that, either.


    I saw another story from Haaretz last night when googling discussing the results of a Knesset study undertaken in the wake of these accusations. I should have posted a link when I found it cause for some reason since last night it seems to have gone behind the paywall. I was half asleep so I don't really remember the details, but the gist of it was that there definitely was no official government policy, and that to the extent that there may have been any wrongdoing by individual doctors and health providers, which there didn't seem to be any hard evidence of, it would have occurred in health clinics that the government didn't have any direct hand in running.
    Well if you ever come across it again, let me know. Seems the entire world media dropped the subject...(probably from the mud on their faces of carrying a misleading, sensationalized story). all I can find are recycled articles of the initial allegations. I'd like to watch the documentary in question and get a feel for the line of questioning from the documentarian. It's not like it was just a couple women making these claims. I don't think Israel would be stupid enough to make this policy, but...id be interested to know if it was a concerted effort, possibly done at arms length, or just a bunch of racist doctors. Again, I wouldn't expect those answers to come from a government investigation led by a rabbi with an alleged conflict of interest (haven't researched him either).
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,048
    Is there really any hope for peace with the current government in Israel? When will the world admit that israel's internal politics will never allow Palestinian autonomy?
    This is a small sampling of comments from cabinet ministers...the most powerful people in israel.

    In Their Own Words: Senior Israeli Officials on the Palestinian Question

    Prime Minister & Minister of Foreign Affairs Benjamin Netanyahu (Likud Party Leader)
    [Question: If you are reelected prime minister, there will be no Palestinian state?] “Indeed.” - March 2015

    “[A]s long as Likud is in power, we won't divide Jerusalem, we won't make concessions, we won't withdraw from land." - March 2015

    “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan [the occupied West Bank].” - July 2014

    Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Tzipi Hotovely (Likud)
    “We are opposed to a Palestinian state... [Netanyahu's 2009 declaration of support for a Palestinian state at Bar-Ilan University was] a tactical speech for the rest of the world." - December 2012

    Minister of Education & Minister of Jerusalem and Diaspora Affairs Naftali Bennett (Jewish Home Party Leader)
    "I will do everything in my power, forever, to fight against a Palestinian state being founded in the Land of Israel." - January 2013

    Minister of Interior Silvan Shalom (Likud)
    "We are all against a Palestinian state, there is no question about it." - May 2012

    Deputy Minister of Defense (Rabbi) Eli Ben-Dahan (Jewish Home)
    “We oppose a Palestinian state completely... As our party advocates, we need to take full control of Area C [60% of the occupied West Bank] and impose Israeli law there.” - February 2013

    “[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” - August 2013.

    Minister of Internal Security, Minister of Tourism & Cabinet Liaison to the Knesset Yariv Levin (Likud)
    “We will act to strengthen our hold on all parts of Eretz Israel, and will safeguard the settlement enterprise out of faith and the knowledge that exercising our rights to this land is our duty but also the best guarantee for Israel’s security.” - June 2013

    “In this way, we will try, slowly but surely, to expand the circle of settlements, and to afterwards extend the roads that lead to them, and so forth. At the end of this process, the facts on the ground will be that whatever remains [of the occupied West Bank] will be merely marginal appendages… We fully agree and are completely united behind the prime minister’s position, which is to strengthen our foothold in the Land of Israel, to build in [occupied East] Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]." - January 2013

    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    I'm sure there will be some response posts with "but".
  • yosiyosi Posts: 2,213

    Is there really any hope for peace with the current government in Israel? When will the world admit that israel's internal politics will never allow Palestinian autonomy?
    This is a small sampling of comments from cabinet ministers...the most powerful people in israel.

    In Their Own Words: Senior Israeli Officials on the Palestinian Question

    Prime Minister & Minister of Foreign Affairs Benjamin Netanyahu (Likud Party Leader)
    [Question: If you are reelected prime minister, there will be no Palestinian state?] “Indeed.” - March 2015

    “[A]s long as Likud is in power, we won't divide Jerusalem, we won't make concessions, we won't withdraw from land." - March 2015

    “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan [the occupied West Bank].” - July 2014

    Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Tzipi Hotovely (Likud)
    “We are opposed to a Palestinian state... [Netanyahu's 2009 declaration of support for a Palestinian state at Bar-Ilan University was] a tactical speech for the rest of the world." - December 2012

    Minister of Education & Minister of Jerusalem and Diaspora Affairs Naftali Bennett (Jewish Home Party Leader)
    "I will do everything in my power, forever, to fight against a Palestinian state being founded in the Land of Israel." - January 2013

    Minister of Interior Silvan Shalom (Likud)
    "We are all against a Palestinian state, there is no question about it." - May 2012

    Deputy Minister of Defense (Rabbi) Eli Ben-Dahan (Jewish Home)
    “We oppose a Palestinian state completely... As our party advocates, we need to take full control of Area C [60% of the occupied West Bank] and impose Israeli law there.” - February 2013

    “[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” - August 2013.

    Minister of Internal Security, Minister of Tourism & Cabinet Liaison to the Knesset Yariv Levin (Likud)
    “We will act to strengthen our hold on all parts of Eretz Israel, and will safeguard the settlement enterprise out of faith and the knowledge that exercising our rights to this land is our duty but also the best guarantee for Israel’s security.” - June 2013

    “In this way, we will try, slowly but surely, to expand the circle of settlements, and to afterwards extend the roads that lead to them, and so forth. At the end of this process, the facts on the ground will be that whatever remains [of the occupied West Bank] will be merely marginal appendages… We fully agree and are completely united behind the prime minister’s position, which is to strengthen our foothold in the Land of Israel, to build in [occupied East] Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]." - January 2013

    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question

    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    yosi said:

    Is there really any hope for peace with the current government in Israel? When will the world admit that israel's internal politics will never allow Palestinian autonomy?
    This is a small sampling of comments from cabinet ministers...the most powerful people in israel.

    In Their Own Words: Senior Israeli Officials on the Palestinian Question

    Prime Minister & Minister of Foreign Affairs Benjamin Netanyahu (Likud Party Leader)
    [Question: If you are reelected prime minister, there will be no Palestinian state?] “Indeed.” - March 2015

    “[A]s long as Likud is in power, we won't divide Jerusalem, we won't make concessions, we won't withdraw from land." - March 2015

    “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan [the occupied West Bank].” - July 2014

    Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Tzipi Hotovely (Likud)
    “We are opposed to a Palestinian state... [Netanyahu's 2009 declaration of support for a Palestinian state at Bar-Ilan University was] a tactical speech for the rest of the world." - December 2012

    Minister of Education & Minister of Jerusalem and Diaspora Affairs Naftali Bennett (Jewish Home Party Leader)
    "I will do everything in my power, forever, to fight against a Palestinian state being founded in the Land of Israel." - January 2013

    Minister of Interior Silvan Shalom (Likud)
    "We are all against a Palestinian state, there is no question about it." - May 2012

    Deputy Minister of Defense (Rabbi) Eli Ben-Dahan (Jewish Home)
    “We oppose a Palestinian state completely... As our party advocates, we need to take full control of Area C [60% of the occupied West Bank] and impose Israeli law there.” - February 2013

    “[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” - August 2013.

    Minister of Internal Security, Minister of Tourism & Cabinet Liaison to the Knesset Yariv Levin (Likud)
    “We will act to strengthen our hold on all parts of Eretz Israel, and will safeguard the settlement enterprise out of faith and the knowledge that exercising our rights to this land is our duty but also the best guarantee for Israel’s security.” - June 2013

    “In this way, we will try, slowly but surely, to expand the circle of settlements, and to afterwards extend the roads that lead to them, and so forth. At the end of this process, the facts on the ground will be that whatever remains [of the occupied West Bank] will be merely marginal appendages… We fully agree and are completely united behind the prime minister’s position, which is to strengthen our foothold in the Land of Israel, to build in [occupied East] Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]." - January 2013

    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question

    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.
    It's been over 65 years and no governement of Israel has. When? And if not this regime, which one? Don't you think it's time? Mistake after mistake, land after land theft, innocent dead civilians like they mean nothing, when will Israel allow the Palestinians to live "somewhat" dignified lives? And plz don't tell me when they stop launching missiles at Israel. Give me something "real."
  • yosiyosi Posts: 2,213
    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Is there really any hope for peace with the current government in Israel? When will the world admit that israel's internal politics will never allow Palestinian autonomy?
    This is a small sampling of comments from cabinet ministers...the most powerful people in israel.

    In Their Own Words: Senior Israeli Officials on the Palestinian Question

    Prime Minister & Minister of Foreign Affairs Benjamin Netanyahu (Likud Party Leader)
    [Question: If you are reelected prime minister, there will be no Palestinian state?] “Indeed.” - March 2015

    “[A]s long as Likud is in power, we won't divide Jerusalem, we won't make concessions, we won't withdraw from land." - March 2015

    “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan [the occupied West Bank].” - July 2014

    Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Tzipi Hotovely (Likud)
    “We are opposed to a Palestinian state... [Netanyahu's 2009 declaration of support for a Palestinian state at Bar-Ilan University was] a tactical speech for the rest of the world." - December 2012

    Minister of Education & Minister of Jerusalem and Diaspora Affairs Naftali Bennett (Jewish Home Party Leader)
    "I will do everything in my power, forever, to fight against a Palestinian state being founded in the Land of Israel." - January 2013

    Minister of Interior Silvan Shalom (Likud)
    "We are all against a Palestinian state, there is no question about it." - May 2012

    Deputy Minister of Defense (Rabbi) Eli Ben-Dahan (Jewish Home)
    “We oppose a Palestinian state completely... As our party advocates, we need to take full control of Area C [60% of the occupied West Bank] and impose Israeli law there.” - February 2013

    “[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” - August 2013.

    Minister of Internal Security, Minister of Tourism & Cabinet Liaison to the Knesset Yariv Levin (Likud)
    “We will act to strengthen our hold on all parts of Eretz Israel, and will safeguard the settlement enterprise out of faith and the knowledge that exercising our rights to this land is our duty but also the best guarantee for Israel’s security.” - June 2013

    “In this way, we will try, slowly but surely, to expand the circle of settlements, and to afterwards extend the roads that lead to them, and so forth. At the end of this process, the facts on the ground will be that whatever remains [of the occupied West Bank] will be merely marginal appendages… We fully agree and are completely united behind the prime minister’s position, which is to strengthen our foothold in the Land of Israel, to build in [occupied East] Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]." - January 2013

    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question

    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.
    It's been over 65 years and no governement of Israel has. When? And if not this regime, which one? Don't you think it's time? Mistake after mistake, land after land theft, innocent dead civilians like they mean nothing, when will Israel allow the Palestinians to live "somewhat" dignified lives? And plz don't tell me when they stop launching missiles at Israel. Give me something "real."
    Your math is pretty interesting given that the occupation is only 48 years old. I wasn't aware that Israel was responsible for the lack of Palestinian autonomy while the West Bank was under Jordanian occupation (learn a new thing every day!).

    I don't know when. I hope tomorrow.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,389
    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    BS44325 said:

    benjs said:

    Nart, he's right. You need to take a step back and consider the posts, not the poster. I get that there's animosity between the two of you (and I refuse to read into it any more than that), but this is a discussion about facts. The statement that I posted, which BS agreed to, suggested a few things:

    -Obama believes in the right to criticize Israel for everything except its right to exist in some fashion
    -Those who criticize Israel do so just loudly enough as not to be morally reprehensible humans, and just quietly enough as not to actually drive change
    -There is precedent in the notion that Israel does not have concern for the well-being of the Palestinian people
    -The Palestinian people exist today (at all) because Israel fears the global isolation which would stem from a genocide at their hands
    -Israel's assistance in repairing a society crippled by Israel itself has been no better than the bare acceptable minimum

    You may not like his tone, or the way he goes about making his points, but BS just agreed with things that I had always assumed you and I agree on (at least partially). This was not said with any arrogance, or any bigotry - it was just a simple "I agree".

    I thought this "I agree" was pretty clear but I do take tissue with any critique of my "tone". My tone is tight.
    I personally don't mind your tone for the most part. I also don't think criticisms of one's tone are out of line, however... I assume people have issue with mine and that's totally cool with me.
    I don't have an issue with yours and I certainly don't mind the criticism. That comment was for the most part a joke.
    My apologies, BS. Sometimes I take myself (or clearly others) too seriously! Jokes are often hard to detect for me when they're just written in plain text. Much easier when you see a cheeky grin on a person's face, etc.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082
    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Is there really any hope for peace with the current government in Israel? When will the world admit that israel's internal politics will never allow Palestinian autonomy?
    This is a small sampling of comments from cabinet ministers...the most powerful people in israel.

    In Their Own Words: Senior Israeli Officials on the Palestinian Question

    Prime Minister & Minister of Foreign Affairs Benjamin Netanyahu (Likud Party Leader)
    [Question: If you are reelected prime minister, there will be no Palestinian state?] “Indeed.” - March 2015

    “[A]s long as Likud is in power, we won't divide Jerusalem, we won't make concessions, we won't withdraw from land." - March 2015

    “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan [the occupied West Bank].” - July 2014

    Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Tzipi Hotovely (Likud)
    “We are opposed to a Palestinian state... [Netanyahu's 2009 declaration of support for a Palestinian state at Bar-Ilan University was] a tactical speech for the rest of the world." - December 2012

    Minister of Education & Minister of Jerusalem and Diaspora Affairs Naftali Bennett (Jewish Home Party Leader)
    "I will do everything in my power, forever, to fight against a Palestinian state being founded in the Land of Israel." - January 2013

    Minister of Interior Silvan Shalom (Likud)
    "We are all against a Palestinian state, there is no question about it." - May 2012

    Deputy Minister of Defense (Rabbi) Eli Ben-Dahan (Jewish Home)
    “We oppose a Palestinian state completely... As our party advocates, we need to take full control of Area C [60% of the occupied West Bank] and impose Israeli law there.” - February 2013

    “[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” - August 2013.

    Minister of Internal Security, Minister of Tourism & Cabinet Liaison to the Knesset Yariv Levin (Likud)
    “We will act to strengthen our hold on all parts of Eretz Israel, and will safeguard the settlement enterprise out of faith and the knowledge that exercising our rights to this land is our duty but also the best guarantee for Israel’s security.” - June 2013

    “In this way, we will try, slowly but surely, to expand the circle of settlements, and to afterwards extend the roads that lead to them, and so forth. At the end of this process, the facts on the ground will be that whatever remains [of the occupied West Bank] will be merely marginal appendages… We fully agree and are completely united behind the prime minister’s position, which is to strengthen our foothold in the Land of Israel, to build in [occupied East] Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]." - January 2013

    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question

    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.
    It's been over 65 years and no governement of Israel has. When? And if not this regime, which one? Don't you think it's time? Mistake after mistake, land after land theft, innocent dead civilians like they mean nothing, when will Israel allow the Palestinians to live "somewhat" dignified lives? And plz don't tell me when they stop launching missiles at Israel. Give me something "real."
    Your math is pretty interesting given that the occupation is only 48 years old. I wasn't aware that Israel was responsible for the lack of Palestinian autonomy while the West Bank was under Jordanian occupation (learn a new thing every day!).

    I don't know when. I hope tomorrow.
    That math gives away the game. It's not "the occupation" that bugs him...it's the existance of Israel at all.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Is there really any hope for peace with the current government in Israel? When will the world admit that israel's internal politics will never allow Palestinian autonomy?
    This is a small sampling of comments from cabinet ministers...the most powerful people in israel.

    In Their Own Words: Senior Israeli Officials on the Palestinian Question

    Prime Minister & Minister of Foreign Affairs Benjamin Netanyahu (Likud Party Leader)
    [Question: If you are reelected prime minister, there will be no Palestinian state?] “Indeed.” - March 2015

    “[A]s long as Likud is in power, we won't divide Jerusalem, we won't make concessions, we won't withdraw from land." - March 2015

    “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan [the occupied West Bank].” - July 2014

    Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Tzipi Hotovely (Likud)
    “We are opposed to a Palestinian state... [Netanyahu's 2009 declaration of support for a Palestinian state at Bar-Ilan University was] a tactical speech for the rest of the world." - December 2012

    Minister of Education & Minister of Jerusalem and Diaspora Affairs Naftali Bennett (Jewish Home Party Leader)
    "I will do everything in my power, forever, to fight against a Palestinian state being founded in the Land of Israel." - January 2013

    Minister of Interior Silvan Shalom (Likud)
    "We are all against a Palestinian state, there is no question about it." - May 2012

    Deputy Minister of Defense (Rabbi) Eli Ben-Dahan (Jewish Home)
    “We oppose a Palestinian state completely... As our party advocates, we need to take full control of Area C [60% of the occupied West Bank] and impose Israeli law there.” - February 2013

    “[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” - August 2013.

    Minister of Internal Security, Minister of Tourism & Cabinet Liaison to the Knesset Yariv Levin (Likud)
    “We will act to strengthen our hold on all parts of Eretz Israel, and will safeguard the settlement enterprise out of faith and the knowledge that exercising our rights to this land is our duty but also the best guarantee for Israel’s security.” - June 2013

    “In this way, we will try, slowly but surely, to expand the circle of settlements, and to afterwards extend the roads that lead to them, and so forth. At the end of this process, the facts on the ground will be that whatever remains [of the occupied West Bank] will be merely marginal appendages… We fully agree and are completely united behind the prime minister’s position, which is to strengthen our foothold in the Land of Israel, to build in [occupied East] Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]." - January 2013

    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question

    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.
    It's been over 65 years and no governement of Israel has. When? And if not this regime, which one? Don't you think it's time? Mistake after mistake, land after land theft, innocent dead civilians like they mean nothing, when will Israel allow the Palestinians to live "somewhat" dignified lives? And plz don't tell me when they stop launching missiles at Israel. Give me something "real."
    Your math is pretty interesting given that the occupation is only 48 years old. I wasn't aware that Israel was responsible for the lack of Palestinian autonomy while the West Bank was under Jordanian occupation (learn a new thing every day!).

    I don't know when. I hope tomorrow.
    Oh god, so my math is the problem? You 2 apologist never surprise me. Keep apologizing for Israel, the world is watching. And BS keep frothing at the mouth whenever someone critizies Israel.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Is there really any hope for peace with the current government in Israel? When will the world admit that israel's internal politics will never allow Palestinian autonomy?
    This is a small sampling of comments from cabinet ministers...the most powerful people in israel.

    In Their Own Words: Senior Israeli Officials on the Palestinian Question

    Prime Minister & Minister of Foreign Affairs Benjamin Netanyahu (Likud Party Leader)
    [Question: If you are reelected prime minister, there will be no Palestinian state?] “Indeed.” - March 2015

    “[A]s long as Likud is in power, we won't divide Jerusalem, we won't make concessions, we won't withdraw from land." - March 2015

    “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan [the occupied West Bank].” - July 2014

    Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Tzipi Hotovely (Likud)
    “We are opposed to a Palestinian state... [Netanyahu's 2009 declaration of support for a Palestinian state at Bar-Ilan University was] a tactical speech for the rest of the world." - December 2012

    Minister of Education & Minister of Jerusalem and Diaspora Affairs Naftali Bennett (Jewish Home Party Leader)
    "I will do everything in my power, forever, to fight against a Palestinian state being founded in the Land of Israel." - January 2013

    Minister of Interior Silvan Shalom (Likud)
    "We are all against a Palestinian state, there is no question about it." - May 2012

    Deputy Minister of Defense (Rabbi) Eli Ben-Dahan (Jewish Home)
    “We oppose a Palestinian state completely... As our party advocates, we need to take full control of Area C [60% of the occupied West Bank] and impose Israeli law there.” - February 2013

    “[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” - August 2013.

    Minister of Internal Security, Minister of Tourism & Cabinet Liaison to the Knesset Yariv Levin (Likud)
    “We will act to strengthen our hold on all parts of Eretz Israel, and will safeguard the settlement enterprise out of faith and the knowledge that exercising our rights to this land is our duty but also the best guarantee for Israel’s security.” - June 2013

    “In this way, we will try, slowly but surely, to expand the circle of settlements, and to afterwards extend the roads that lead to them, and so forth. At the end of this process, the facts on the ground will be that whatever remains [of the occupied West Bank] will be merely marginal appendages… We fully agree and are completely united behind the prime minister’s position, which is to strengthen our foothold in the Land of Israel, to build in [occupied East] Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]." - January 2013

    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question

    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.
    It's been over 65 years and no governement of Israel has. When? And if not this regime, which one? Don't you think it's time? Mistake after mistake, land after land theft, innocent dead civilians like they mean nothing, when will Israel allow the Palestinians to live "somewhat" dignified lives? And plz don't tell me when they stop launching missiles at Israel. Give me something "real."
    Your math is pretty interesting given that the occupation is only 48 years old. I wasn't aware that Israel was responsible for the lack of Palestinian autonomy while the West Bank was under Jordanian occupation (learn a new thing every day!).

    I don't know when. I hope tomorrow.
    That math gives away the game. It's not "the occupation" that bugs him...it's the existance of Israel at all.
    My math gives it away? Hahaha, because since the day Israel was created, the Palestinians have been suffering since day 1. As I've said BEFORE, see if YOU, BS, can follow, I know it's fucken hard for you because you're slow, but try. Israel has the right to exist, and WILL exist. So do the Palestinians and Palestine. Here, I'll say it again, Israel has the right to exit and will exist. Now put your hard on away.
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,389
    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:


    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.
    It's been over 65 years and no governement of Israel has. When? And if not this regime, which one? Don't you think it's time? Mistake after mistake, land after land theft, innocent dead civilians like they mean nothing, when will Israel allow the Palestinians to live "somewhat" dignified lives? And plz don't tell me when they stop launching missiles at Israel. Give me something "real."
    Your math is pretty interesting given that the occupation is only 48 years old. I wasn't aware that Israel was responsible for the lack of Palestinian autonomy while the West Bank was under Jordanian occupation (learn a new thing every day!).

    I don't know when. I hope tomorrow.
    Nart, I think it's time to abandon this binary standpoint.

    I went to a life coach once, and they stressed the importance of making long-term goals (Step One). They then stressed the importance of breaking down the long-term goals into smaller chunks of progress that bring a person to that point (Step Two). They finally stressed the importance of chasing the smaller chunks of progress, which are tangible, can be measured, and are often not so daunting and quite realistic rather than the long-term goal which may not seem to be (Step Three). Emperors didn't simply wake up and aim to dominate the world - they planned, and claimed strategic locations which their end goal deemed necessary to reach that point.

    You have claimed here that Israel is a broken and racist society. I'd tend to agree. It is also a democracy, that some (myself included) would argue still manages to cater to Jews above others (often in ways beyond the power by numbers a Jewish state affords them, and in ways that simply aren't democratic). This being said, change in favour of equality is an insurmountably large struggle when there is a minority empowered to change in ways that continue to empower them. There is no equality switch in Israel and the Palestinian territories which can be toggled to bring justice. There is a rope ladder to a better and more equal situation, where each rung, if haphazardously installed, threatens to destroy all progress thus far however minuscule it might seem.

    To negate the value of steps like a Likud MK proposing Arabic as a second language in Israel to open both cultures to debate is akin to torching a rung.

    I can't say I believe this peace can be mass manufactured - but it can be built in the garages of those who give a shit. And they're growing in number, both within Israel and outside of it.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082
    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Is there really any hope for peace with the current government in Israel? When will the world admit that israel's internal politics will never allow Palestinian autonomy?
    This is a small sampling of comments from cabinet ministers...the most powerful people in israel.

    In Their Own Words: Senior Israeli Officials on the Palestinian Question

    Prime Minister & Minister of Foreign Affairs Benjamin Netanyahu (Likud Party Leader)
    [Question: If you are reelected prime minister, there will be no Palestinian state?] “Indeed.” - March 2015

    “[A]s long as Likud is in power, we won't divide Jerusalem, we won't make concessions, we won't withdraw from land." - March 2015

    “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan [the occupied West Bank].” - July 2014

    Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Tzipi Hotovely (Likud)
    “We are opposed to a Palestinian state... [Netanyahu's 2009 declaration of support for a Palestinian state at Bar-Ilan University was] a tactical speech for the rest of the world." - December 2012

    Minister of Education & Minister of Jerusalem and Diaspora Affairs Naftali Bennett (Jewish Home Party Leader)
    "I will do everything in my power, forever, to fight against a Palestinian state being founded in the Land of Israel." - January 2013

    Minister of Interior Silvan Shalom (Likud)
    "We are all against a Palestinian state, there is no question about it." - May 2012

    Deputy Minister of Defense (Rabbi) Eli Ben-Dahan (Jewish Home)
    “We oppose a Palestinian state completely... As our party advocates, we need to take full control of Area C [60% of the occupied West Bank] and impose Israeli law there.” - February 2013

    “[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” - August 2013.

    Minister of Internal Security, Minister of Tourism & Cabinet Liaison to the Knesset Yariv Levin (Likud)
    “We will act to strengthen our hold on all parts of Eretz Israel, and will safeguard the settlement enterprise out of faith and the knowledge that exercising our rights to this land is our duty but also the best guarantee for Israel’s security.” - June 2013

    “In this way, we will try, slowly but surely, to expand the circle of settlements, and to afterwards extend the roads that lead to them, and so forth. At the end of this process, the facts on the ground will be that whatever remains [of the occupied West Bank] will be merely marginal appendages… We fully agree and are completely united behind the prime minister’s position, which is to strengthen our foothold in the Land of Israel, to build in [occupied East] Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]." - January 2013

    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question

    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.
    It's been over 65 years and no governement of Israel has. When? And if not this regime, which one? Don't you think it's time? Mistake after mistake, land after land theft, innocent dead civilians like they mean nothing, when will Israel allow the Palestinians to live "somewhat" dignified lives? And plz don't tell me when they stop launching missiles at Israel. Give me something "real."
    Your math is pretty interesting given that the occupation is only 48 years old. I wasn't aware that Israel was responsible for the lack of Palestinian autonomy while the West Bank was under Jordanian occupation (learn a new thing every day!).

    I don't know when. I hope tomorrow.
    That math gives away the game. It's not "the occupation" that bugs him...it's the existance of Israel at all.
    My math gives it away? Hahaha, because since the day Israel was created, the Palestinians have been suffering since day 1. As I've said BEFORE, see if YOU, BS, can follow, I know it's fucken hard for you because you're slow, but try. Israel has the right to exist, and WILL exist. So do the Palestinians and Palestine. Here, I'll say it again, Israel has the right to exit and will exist. Now put your hard on away.
    So now you're a zionist too?
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Is there really any hope for peace with the current government in Israel? When will the world admit that israel's internal politics will never allow Palestinian autonomy?
    This is a small sampling of comments from cabinet ministers...the most powerful people in israel.

    In Their Own Words: Senior Israeli Officials on the Palestinian Question

    Prime Minister & Minister of Foreign Affairs Benjamin Netanyahu (Likud Party Leader)
    [Question: If you are reelected prime minister, there will be no Palestinian state?] “Indeed.” - March 2015

    “[A]s long as Likud is in power, we won't divide Jerusalem, we won't make concessions, we won't withdraw from land." - March 2015

    “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan [the occupied West Bank].” - July 2014

    Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Tzipi Hotovely (Likud)
    “We are opposed to a Palestinian state... [Netanyahu's 2009 declaration of support for a Palestinian state at Bar-Ilan University was] a tactical speech for the rest of the world." - December 2012

    Minister of Education & Minister of Jerusalem and Diaspora Affairs Naftali Bennett (Jewish Home Party Leader)
    "I will do everything in my power, forever, to fight against a Palestinian state being founded in the Land of Israel." - January 2013

    Minister of Interior Silvan Shalom (Likud)
    "We are all against a Palestinian state, there is no question about it." - May 2012

    Deputy Minister of Defense (Rabbi) Eli Ben-Dahan (Jewish Home)
    “We oppose a Palestinian state completely... As our party advocates, we need to take full control of Area C [60% of the occupied West Bank] and impose Israeli law there.” - February 2013

    “[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” - August 2013.

    Minister of Internal Security, Minister of Tourism & Cabinet Liaison to the Knesset Yariv Levin (Likud)
    “We will act to strengthen our hold on all parts of Eretz Israel, and will safeguard the settlement enterprise out of faith and the knowledge that exercising our rights to this land is our duty but also the best guarantee for Israel’s security.” - June 2013

    “In this way, we will try, slowly but surely, to expand the circle of settlements, and to afterwards extend the roads that lead to them, and so forth. At the end of this process, the facts on the ground will be that whatever remains [of the occupied West Bank] will be merely marginal appendages… We fully agree and are completely united behind the prime minister’s position, which is to strengthen our foothold in the Land of Israel, to build in [occupied East] Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]." - January 2013

    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question

    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.
    It's been over 65 years and no governement of Israel has. When? And if not this regime, which one? Don't you think it's time? Mistake after mistake, land after land theft, innocent dead civilians like they mean nothing, when will Israel allow the Palestinians to live "somewhat" dignified lives? And plz don't tell me when they stop launching missiles at Israel. Give me something "real."
    Your math is pretty interesting given that the occupation is only 48 years old. I wasn't aware that Israel was responsible for the lack of Palestinian autonomy while the West Bank was under Jordanian occupation (learn a new thing every day!).

    I don't know when. I hope tomorrow.
    That math gives away the game. It's not "the occupation" that bugs him...it's the existance of Israel at all.
    My math gives it away? Hahaha, because since the day Israel was created, the Palestinians have been suffering since day 1. As I've said BEFORE, see if YOU, BS, can follow, I know it's fucken hard for you because you're slow, but try. Israel has the right to exist, and WILL exist. So do the Palestinians and Palestine. Here, I'll say it again, Israel has the right to exit and will exist. Now put your hard on away.
    So now you're a zionist too?
    Nah, just a human who cares about other people. Unlike your ass
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082
    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Is there really any hope for peace with the current government in Israel? When will the world admit that israel's internal politics will never allow Palestinian autonomy?
    This is a small sampling of comments from cabinet ministers...the most powerful people in israel.

    In Their Own Words: Senior Israeli Officials on the Palestinian Question

    Prime Minister & Minister of Foreign Affairs Benjamin Netanyahu (Likud Party Leader)
    [Question: If you are reelected prime minister, there will be no Palestinian state?] “Indeed.” - March 2015

    “[A]s long as Likud is in power, we won't divide Jerusalem, we won't make concessions, we won't withdraw from land." - March 2015

    “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan [the occupied West Bank].” - July 2014

    Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Tzipi Hotovely (Likud)
    “We are opposed to a Palestinian state... [Netanyahu's 2009 declaration of support for a Palestinian state at Bar-Ilan University was] a tactical speech for the rest of the world." - December 2012

    Minister of Education & Minister of Jerusalem and Diaspora Affairs Naftali Bennett (Jewish Home Party Leader)
    "I will do everything in my power, forever, to fight against a Palestinian state being founded in the Land of Israel." - January 2013

    Minister of Interior Silvan Shalom (Likud)
    "We are all against a Palestinian state, there is no question about it." - May 2012

    Deputy Minister of Defense (Rabbi) Eli Ben-Dahan (Jewish Home)
    “We oppose a Palestinian state completely... As our party advocates, we need to take full control of Area C [60% of the occupied West Bank] and impose Israeli law there.” - February 2013

    “[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” - August 2013.

    Minister of Internal Security, Minister of Tourism & Cabinet Liaison to the Knesset Yariv Levin (Likud)
    “We will act to strengthen our hold on all parts of Eretz Israel, and will safeguard the settlement enterprise out of faith and the knowledge that exercising our rights to this land is our duty but also the best guarantee for Israel’s security.” - June 2013

    “In this way, we will try, slowly but surely, to expand the circle of settlements, and to afterwards extend the roads that lead to them, and so forth. At the end of this process, the facts on the ground will be that whatever remains [of the occupied West Bank] will be merely marginal appendages… We fully agree and are completely united behind the prime minister’s position, which is to strengthen our foothold in the Land of Israel, to build in [occupied East] Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]." - January 2013

    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question

    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.
    It's been over 65 years and no governement of Israel has. When? And if not this regime, which one? Don't you think it's time? Mistake after mistake, land after land theft, innocent dead civilians like they mean nothing, when will Israel allow the Palestinians to live "somewhat" dignified lives? And plz don't tell me when they stop launching missiles at Israel. Give me something "real."
    Your math is pretty interesting given that the occupation is only 48 years old. I wasn't aware that Israel was responsible for the lack of Palestinian autonomy while the West Bank was under Jordanian occupation (learn a new thing every day!).

    I don't know when. I hope tomorrow.
    That math gives away the game. It's not "the occupation" that bugs him...it's the existance of Israel at all.
    My math gives it away? Hahaha, because since the day Israel was created, the Palestinians have been suffering since day 1. As I've said BEFORE, see if YOU, BS, can follow, I know it's fucken hard for you because you're slow, but try. Israel has the right to exist, and WILL exist. So do the Palestinians and Palestine. Here, I'll say it again, Israel has the right to exit and will exist. Now put your hard on away.
    So now you're a zionist too?
    Nah, just a human who cares about other people. Unlike your ass
    Well which is it? Please explain. I'm slooooooooow.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,987
    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Is there really any hope for peace with the current government in Israel? When will the world admit that israel's internal politics will never allow Palestinian autonomy?
    This is a small sampling of comments from cabinet ministers...the most powerful people in israel.

    In Their Own Words: Senior Israeli Officials on the Palestinian Question

    Prime Minister & Minister of Foreign Affairs Benjamin Netanyahu (Likud Party Leader)
    [Question: If you are reelected prime minister, there will be no Palestinian state?] “Indeed.” - March 2015

    “[A]s long as Likud is in power, we won't divide Jerusalem, we won't make concessions, we won't withdraw from land." - March 2015

    “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan [the occupied West Bank].” - July 2014

    Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Tzipi Hotovely (Likud)
    “We are opposed to a Palestinian state... [Netanyahu's 2009 declaration of support for a Palestinian state at Bar-Ilan University was] a tactical speech for the rest of the world." - December 2012

    Minister of Education & Minister of Jerusalem and Diaspora Affairs Naftali Bennett (Jewish Home Party Leader)
    "I will do everything in my power, forever, to fight against a Palestinian state being founded in the Land of Israel." - January 2013

    Minister of Interior Silvan Shalom (Likud)
    "We are all against a Palestinian state, there is no question about it." - May 2012

    Deputy Minister of Defense (Rabbi) Eli Ben-Dahan (Jewish Home)
    “We oppose a Palestinian state completely... As our party advocates, we need to take full control of Area C [60% of the occupied West Bank] and impose Israeli law there.” - February 2013

    “[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” - August 2013.

    Minister of Internal Security, Minister of Tourism & Cabinet Liaison to the Knesset Yariv Levin (Likud)
    “We will act to strengthen our hold on all parts of Eretz Israel, and will safeguard the settlement enterprise out of faith and the knowledge that exercising our rights to this land is our duty but also the best guarantee for Israel’s security.” - June 2013

    “In this way, we will try, slowly but surely, to expand the circle of settlements, and to afterwards extend the roads that lead to them, and so forth. At the end of this process, the facts on the ground will be that whatever remains [of the occupied West Bank] will be merely marginal appendages… We fully agree and are completely united behind the prime minister’s position, which is to strengthen our foothold in the Land of Israel, to build in [occupied East] Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]." - January 2013

    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question

    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.
    It's been over 65 years and no governement of Israel has. When? And if not this regime, which one? Don't you think it's time? Mistake after mistake, land after land theft, innocent dead civilians like they mean nothing, when will Israel allow the Palestinians to live "somewhat" dignified lives? And plz don't tell me when they stop launching missiles at Israel. Give me something "real."
    Your math is pretty interesting given that the occupation is only 48 years old. I wasn't aware that Israel was responsible for the lack of Palestinian autonomy while the West Bank was under Jordanian occupation (learn a new thing every day!).

    I don't know when. I hope tomorrow.
    That math gives away the game. It's not "the occupation" that bugs him...it's the existance of Israel at all.
    My math gives it away? Hahaha, because since the day Israel was created, the Palestinians have been suffering since day 1. As I've said BEFORE, see if YOU, BS, can follow, I know it's fucken hard for you because you're slow, but try. Israel has the right to exist, and WILL exist. So do the Palestinians and Palestine. Here, I'll say it again, Israel has the right to exit and will exist. Now put your hard on away.
    So now you're a zionist too?
    I know you are. So, what am I?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Is there really any hope for peace with the current government in Israel? When will the world admit that israel's internal politics will never allow Palestinian autonomy?
    This is a small sampling of comments from cabinet ministers...the most powerful people in israel.

    In Their Own Words: Senior Israeli Officials on the Palestinian Question

    Prime Minister & Minister of Foreign Affairs Benjamin Netanyahu (Likud Party Leader)
    [Question: If you are reelected prime minister, there will be no Palestinian state?] “Indeed.” - March 2015

    “[A]s long as Likud is in power, we won't divide Jerusalem, we won't make concessions, we won't withdraw from land." - March 2015

    “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan [the occupied West Bank].” - July 2014

    Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Tzipi Hotovely (Likud)
    “We are opposed to a Palestinian state... [Netanyahu's 2009 declaration of support for a Palestinian state at Bar-Ilan University was] a tactical speech for the rest of the world." - December 2012

    Minister of Education & Minister of Jerusalem and Diaspora Affairs Naftali Bennett (Jewish Home Party Leader)
    "I will do everything in my power, forever, to fight against a Palestinian state being founded in the Land of Israel." - January 2013

    Minister of Interior Silvan Shalom (Likud)
    "We are all against a Palestinian state, there is no question about it." - May 2012

    Deputy Minister of Defense (Rabbi) Eli Ben-Dahan (Jewish Home)
    “We oppose a Palestinian state completely... As our party advocates, we need to take full control of Area C [60% of the occupied West Bank] and impose Israeli law there.” - February 2013

    “[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” - August 2013.

    Minister of Internal Security, Minister of Tourism & Cabinet Liaison to the Knesset Yariv Levin (Likud)
    “We will act to strengthen our hold on all parts of Eretz Israel, and will safeguard the settlement enterprise out of faith and the knowledge that exercising our rights to this land is our duty but also the best guarantee for Israel’s security.” - June 2013

    “In this way, we will try, slowly but surely, to expand the circle of settlements, and to afterwards extend the roads that lead to them, and so forth. At the end of this process, the facts on the ground will be that whatever remains [of the occupied West Bank] will be merely marginal appendages… We fully agree and are completely united behind the prime minister’s position, which is to strengthen our foothold in the Land of Israel, to build in [occupied East] Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]." - January 2013

    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question

    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.
    It's been over 65 years and no governement of Israel has. When? And if not this regime, which one? Don't you think it's time? Mistake after mistake, land after land theft, innocent dead civilians like they mean nothing, when will Israel allow the Palestinians to live "somewhat" dignified lives? And plz don't tell me when they stop launching missiles at Israel. Give me something "real."
    Your math is pretty interesting given that the occupation is only 48 years old. I wasn't aware that Israel was responsible for the lack of Palestinian autonomy while the West Bank was under Jordanian occupation (learn a new thing every day!).

    I don't know when. I hope tomorrow.
    That math gives away the game. It's not "the occupation" that bugs him...it's the existance of Israel at all.
    My math gives it away? Hahaha, because since the day Israel was created, the Palestinians have been suffering since day 1. As I've said BEFORE, see if YOU, BS, can follow, I know it's fucken hard for you because you're slow, but try. Israel has the right to exist, and WILL exist. So do the Palestinians and Palestine. Here, I'll say it again, Israel has the right to exit and will exist. Now put your hard on away.
    So now you're a zionist too?
    I know you are. So, what am I?
    Are you guys for real?
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Is there really any hope for peace with the current government in Israel? When will the world admit that israel's internal politics will never allow Palestinian autonomy?
    This is a small sampling of comments from cabinet ministers...the most powerful people in israel.

    In Their Own Words: Senior Israeli Officials on the Palestinian Question

    Prime Minister & Minister of Foreign Affairs Benjamin Netanyahu (Likud Party Leader)
    [Question: If you are reelected prime minister, there will be no Palestinian state?] “Indeed.” - March 2015

    “[A]s long as Likud is in power, we won't divide Jerusalem, we won't make concessions, we won't withdraw from land." - March 2015

    “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan [the occupied West Bank].” - July 2014

    Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Tzipi Hotovely (Likud)
    “We are opposed to a Palestinian state... [Netanyahu's 2009 declaration of support for a Palestinian state at Bar-Ilan University was] a tactical speech for the rest of the world." - December 2012

    Minister of Education & Minister of Jerusalem and Diaspora Affairs Naftali Bennett (Jewish Home Party Leader)
    "I will do everything in my power, forever, to fight against a Palestinian state being founded in the Land of Israel." - January 2013

    Minister of Interior Silvan Shalom (Likud)
    "We are all against a Palestinian state, there is no question about it." - May 2012

    Deputy Minister of Defense (Rabbi) Eli Ben-Dahan (Jewish Home)
    “We oppose a Palestinian state completely... As our party advocates, we need to take full control of Area C [60% of the occupied West Bank] and impose Israeli law there.” - February 2013

    “[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” - August 2013.

    Minister of Internal Security, Minister of Tourism & Cabinet Liaison to the Knesset Yariv Levin (Likud)
    “We will act to strengthen our hold on all parts of Eretz Israel, and will safeguard the settlement enterprise out of faith and the knowledge that exercising our rights to this land is our duty but also the best guarantee for Israel’s security.” - June 2013

    “In this way, we will try, slowly but surely, to expand the circle of settlements, and to afterwards extend the roads that lead to them, and so forth. At the end of this process, the facts on the ground will be that whatever remains [of the occupied West Bank] will be merely marginal appendages… We fully agree and are completely united behind the prime minister’s position, which is to strengthen our foothold in the Land of Israel, to build in [occupied East] Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]." - January 2013

    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question

    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.
    It's been over 65 years and no governement of Israel has. When? And if not this regime, which one? Don't you think it's time? Mistake after mistake, land after land theft, innocent dead civilians like they mean nothing, when will Israel allow the Palestinians to live "somewhat" dignified lives? And plz don't tell me when they stop launching missiles at Israel. Give me something "real."
    Your math is pretty interesting given that the occupation is only 48 years old. I wasn't aware that Israel was responsible for the lack of Palestinian autonomy while the West Bank was under Jordanian occupation (learn a new thing every day!).

    I don't know when. I hope tomorrow.
    That math gives away the game. It's not "the occupation" that bugs him...it's the existance of Israel at all.
    My math gives it away? Hahaha, because since the day Israel was created, the Palestinians have been suffering since day 1. As I've said BEFORE, see if YOU, BS, can follow, I know it's fucken hard for you because you're slow, but try. Israel has the right to exist, and WILL exist. So do the Palestinians and Palestine. Here, I'll say it again, Israel has the right to exit and will exist. Now put your hard on away.
    So now you're a zionist too?
    Nah, just a human who cares about other people. Unlike your ass
    Well which is it? Please explain. I'm slooooooooow.
    that's evident
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082
    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Is there really any hope for peace with the current government in Israel? When will the world admit that israel's internal politics will never allow Palestinian autonomy?
    This is a small sampling of comments from cabinet ministers...the most powerful people in israel.


    Minister of Interior Silvan Shalom (Likud)
    "We are all against a Palestinian state, there is no question about it." - May 2012

    Deputy Minister of Defense (Rabbi) Eli Ben-Dahan (Jewish Home)
    “We oppose a Palestinian state completely... As our party advocates, we need to take full control of Area C [60% of the occupied West Bank] and impose Israeli law there.” - February 2013

    “[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” - August 2013.

    Minister of Internal Security, Minister of Tourism & Cabinet Liaison to the Knesset Yariv Levin (Likud)
    “We will act to strengthen our hold on all parts of Eretz Israel, and will safeguard the settlement enterprise out of faith and the knowledge that exercising our rights to this land is our duty but also the best guarantee for Israel’s security.” - June 2013

    “In this way, we will try, slowly but surely, to expand the circle of settlements, and to afterwards extend the roads that lead to them, and so forth. At the end of this process, the facts on the ground will be that whatever remains [of the occupied West Bank] will be merely marginal appendages… We fully agree and are completely united behind the prime minister’s position, which is to strengthen our foothold in the Land of Israel, to build in [occupied East] Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]." - January 2013

    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question

    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.
    It's been over 65 years and no governement of Israel has. When? And if not this regime, which one? Don't you think it's time? Mistake after mistake, land after land theft, innocent dead civilians like they mean nothing, when will Israel allow the Palestinians to live "somewhat" dignified lives? And plz don't tell me when they stop launching missiles at Israel. Give me something "real."
    Your math is pretty interesting given that the occupation is only 48 years old. I wasn't aware that Israel was responsible for the lack of Palestinian autonomy while the West Bank was under Jordanian occupation (learn a new thing every day!).

    I don't know when. I hope tomorrow.
    That math gives away the game. It's not "the occupation" that bugs him...it's the existance of Israel at all.
    My math gives it away? Hahaha, because since the day Israel was created, the Palestinians have been suffering since day 1. As I've said BEFORE, see if YOU, BS, can follow, I know it's fucken hard for you because you're slow, but try. Israel has the right to exist, and WILL exist. So do the Palestinians and Palestine. Here, I'll say it again, Israel has the right to exit and will exist. Now put your hard on away.
    So now you're a zionist too?
    Nah, just a human who cares about other people. Unlike your ass
    Well which is it? Please explain. I'm slooooooooow.
    that's evident
    Are you choosing to dodge the question? If it wasn't clear please explain how your belief in the right for Israel to exist doesn't make you a zionist? I have heard other people make that claim before but I'm curious how you personally explain it.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,987


    In Their Own Words: Senior Israeli Officials on the Palestinian Question

    Prime Minister & Minister of Foreign Affairs Benjamin Netanyahu (Likud Party Leader)
    [Question: If you are reelected prime minister, there will be no Palestinian state?] “Indeed.” - March 2015

    “[A]s long as Likud is in power, we won't divide Jerusalem, we won't make concessions, we won't withdraw from land." - March 2015

    “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan [the occupied West Bank].” - July 2014

    Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Tzipi Hotovely (Likud)
    “We are opposed to a Palestinian state... [Netanyahu's 2009 declaration of support for a Palestinian state at Bar-Ilan University was] a tactical speech for the rest of the world." - December 2012

    Minister of Education & Minister of Jerusalem and Diaspora Affairs Naftali Bennett (Jewish Home Party Leader)
    "I will do everything in my power, forever, to fight against a Palestinian state being founded in the Land of Israel." - January 2013

    Minister of Interior Silvan Shalom (Likud)
    "We are all against a Palestinian state, there is no question about it." - May 2012

    Deputy Minister of Defense (Rabbi) Eli Ben-Dahan (Jewish Home)
    “We oppose a Palestinian state completely... As our party advocates, we need to take full control of Area C [60% of the occupied West Bank] and impose Israeli law there.” - February 2013

    “[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” - August 2013.

    Minister of Internal Security, Minister of Tourism & Cabinet Liaison to the Knesset Yariv Levin (Likud)
    “We will act to strengthen our hold on all parts of Eretz Israel, and will safeguard the settlement enterprise out of faith and the knowledge that exercising our rights to this land is our duty but also the best guarantee for Israel’s security.” - June 2013

    “In this way, we will try, slowly but surely, to expand the circle of settlements, and to afterwards extend the roads that lead to them, and so forth. At the end of this process, the facts on the ground will be that whatever remains [of the occupied West Bank] will be merely marginal appendages… We fully agree and are completely united behind the prime minister’s position, which is to strengthen our foothold in the Land of Israel, to build in [occupied East] Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]." - January 2013

    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question

    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.

    It's been over 65 years and no governement of Israel has. When? And if not this regime, which one? Don't you think it's time? Mistake after mistake, land after land theft, innocent dead civilians like they mean nothing, when will Israel allow the Palestinians to live "somewhat" dignified lives? And plz don't tell me when they stop launching missiles at Israel. Give me something "real."

    Your math is pretty interesting given that the occupation is only 48 years old. I wasn't aware that Israel was responsible for the lack of Palestinian autonomy while the West Bank was under Jordanian occupation (learn a new thing every day!).

    I don't know when. I hope tomorrow.

    That math gives away the game. It's not "the occupation" that bugs him...it's the existance of Israel at all.

    My math gives it away? Hahaha, because since the day Israel was created, the Palestinians have been suffering since day 1. As I've said BEFORE, see if YOU, BS, can follow, I know it's fucken hard for you because you're slow, but try. Israel has the right to exist, and WILL exist. So do the Palestinians and Palestine. Here, I'll say it again, Israel has the right to exit and will exist. Now put your hard on away.

    So now you're a zionist too?

    I know you are. So, what am I?

    Are you guys for real?

    Yea, I'm for real. What are you? A Zionist? If not, what? Are you embarrassed of yourself? It's okay if you are and if so, at least admit it. And if not, then what are you? An apologist? A neo-conservative evangelical? Why the embarrassment?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082
    edited June 2015



    I know you are. So, what am I?

    Are you guys for real?

    Halifax - Yea, I'm for real. What are you? A Zionist? If not, what? Are you embarrassed of yourself? It's okay if you are and if so, at least admit it. And if not, then what are you? An apologist? A neo-conservative evangelical? Why the embarrassment?

    BS - As I have said many times I believe Israel should be able to exist as a Jewish state with protections for minorities. If that makes me a Zionist so be it. I don't think it's a bad word. I also believe a Palestinian state should exist. Nothing to be embarrassed about. I don't understand the premise of your question?

    edit - quotes busted again?
    Post edited by BS44325 on
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Is there really any hope for peace with the current government in Israel? When will the world admit that israel's internal politics will never allow Palestinian autonomy?
    This is a small sampling of comments from cabinet ministers...the most powerful people in israel.


    Minister of Interior Silvan Shalom (Likud)
    "We are all against a Palestinian state, there is no question about it." - May 2012

    Deputy Minister of Defense (Rabbi) Eli Ben-Dahan (Jewish Home)
    “We oppose a Palestinian state completely... As our party advocates, we need to take full control of Area C [60% of the occupied West Bank] and impose Israeli law there.” - February 2013

    “[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” - August 2013.

    Minister of Internal Security, Minister of Tourism & Cabinet Liaison to the Knesset Yariv Levin (Likud)
    “We will act to strengthen our hold on all parts of Eretz Israel, and will safeguard the settlement enterprise out of faith and the knowledge that exercising our rights to this land is our duty but also the best guarantee for Israel’s security.” - June 2013

    “In this way, we will try, slowly but surely, to expand the circle of settlements, and to afterwards extend the roads that lead to them, and so forth. At the end of this process, the facts on the ground will be that whatever remains [of the occupied West Bank] will be merely marginal appendages… We fully agree and are completely united behind the prime minister’s position, which is to strengthen our foothold in the Land of Israel, to build in [occupied East] Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]." - January 2013

    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question

    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.
    It's been over 65 years and no governement of Israel has. When? And if not this regime, which one? Don't you think it's time? Mistake after mistake, land after land theft, innocent dead civilians like they mean nothing, when will Israel allow the Palestinians to live "somewhat" dignified lives? And plz don't tell me when they stop launching missiles at Israel. Give me something "real."
    Your math is pretty interesting given that the occupation is only 48 years old. I wasn't aware that Israel was responsible for the lack of Palestinian autonomy while the West Bank was under Jordanian occupation (learn a new thing every day!).

    I don't know when. I hope tomorrow.
    That math gives away the game. It's not "the occupation" that bugs him...it's the existance of Israel at all.
    My math gives it away? Hahaha, because since the day Israel was created, the Palestinians have been suffering since day 1. As I've said BEFORE, see if YOU, BS, can follow, I know it's fucken hard for you because you're slow, but try. Israel has the right to exist, and WILL exist. So do the Palestinians and Palestine. Here, I'll say it again, Israel has the right to exit and will exist. Now put your hard on away.
    So now you're a zionist too?
    Nah, just a human who cares about other people. Unlike your ass
    Well which is it? Please explain. I'm slooooooooow.
    that's evident
    Are you choosing to dodge the question? If it wasn't clear please explain how your belief in the right for Israel to exist doesn't make you a zionist? I have heard other people make that claim before but I'm curious how you personally explain it.
    Wait, let me get this straight. Because I know reality and know that Israel isn't going anywhere, and have "accepted" that, that makes me a Zionist? Really? you take the yellow cake BS.
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