Auto-Save Draft feature temporarily disabled. Please be sure you manually save your post by selecting "Save Draft" if you have that need.

Meanwhile back in Israel

18911131457

Comments

  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,379
    Well, your asking if I'm real which makes me think by asking the question that you are dismissing me and my views. So, I'll ask you again, are you a Zionist? Because if you are, you don't believe in the right of Palestine to exist. What protections would you give minorities and would minorities include those who are not jewish?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082
    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Is there really any hope for peace with the current government in Israel? When will the world admit that israel's internal politics will never allow Palestinian autonomy?
    This is a small sampling of comments from cabinet ministers...the most powerful people in israel.


    Minister of Interior Silvan Shalom (Likud)
    "We are all against a Palestinian state, there is no question about it." - May 2012

    Deputy Minister of Defense (Rabbi) Eli Ben-Dahan (Jewish Home)
    “We oppose a Palestinian state completely... As our party advocates, we need to take full control of Area C [60% of the occupied West Bank] and impose Israeli law there.” - February 2013

    “[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” - August 2013.

    Minister of Internal Security, Minister of Tourism & Cabinet Liaison to the Knesset Yariv Levin (Likud)
    “We will act to strengthen our hold on all parts of Eretz Israel, and will safeguard the settlement enterprise out of faith and the knowledge that exercising our rights to this land is our duty but also the best guarantee for Israel’s security.” - June 2013

    “In this way, we will try, slowly but surely, to expand the circle of settlements, and to afterwards extend the roads that lead to them, and so forth. At the end of this process, the facts on the ground will be that whatever remains [of the occupied West Bank] will be merely marginal appendages… We fully agree and are completely united behind the prime minister’s position, which is to strengthen our foothold in the Land of Israel, to build in [occupied East] Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]." - January 2013

    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question

    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.
    It's been over 65 years and no governement of Israel has. When? And if not this regime, which one? Don't you think it's time? Mistake after mistake, land after land theft, innocent dead civilians like they mean nothing, when will Israel allow the Palestinians to live "somewhat" dignified lives? And plz don't tell me when they stop launching missiles at Israel. Give me something "real."
    Your math is pretty interesting given that the occupation is only 48 years old. I wasn't aware that Israel was responsible for the lack of Palestinian autonomy while the West Bank was under Jordanian occupation (learn a new thing every day!).

    I don't know when. I hope tomorrow.
    That math gives away the game. It's not "the occupation" that bugs him...it's the existance of Israel at all.
    My math gives it away? Hahaha, because since the day Israel was created, the Palestinians have been suffering since day 1. As I've said BEFORE, see if YOU, BS, can follow, I know it's fucken hard for you because you're slow, but try. Israel has the right to exist, and WILL exist. So do the Palestinians and Palestine. Here, I'll say it again, Israel has the right to exit and will exist. Now put your hard on away.
    So now you're a zionist too?
    Nah, just a human who cares about other people. Unlike your ass
    Well which is it? Please explain. I'm slooooooooow.
    that's evident
    Are you choosing to dodge the question? If it wasn't clear please explain how your belief in the right for Israel to exist doesn't make you a zionist? I have heard other people make that claim before but I'm curious how you personally explain it.
    Wait, let me get this straight. Because I know reality and know that Israel isn't going anywhere, and have "accepted" that, that makes me a Zionist? Really? you take the yellow cake BS.
    You said specifically that "Israel has the right to exist". That is more then just accepting reality and I applaud you for it. Now that you have said it though I want to actually hear how you now differ from the average zionist. There are many zionists who criticize Israel so it can't just be that?
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082

    Well, your asking if I'm real which makes me think by asking the question that you are dismissing me and my views. So, I'll ask you again, are you a Zionist? Because if you are, you don't believe in the right of Palestine to exist. What protections would you give minorities and would minorities include those who are not jewish?

    But I do believe in the right for Palestine to exist. Does this mean that I am now not a zionist? The definition seems to evolve.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,379
    But while you may believe that Palestine has the right to exist, you'll not advocate for anything nor support elected or representatives that will or would make it a reality. Talk is cheap. Why so long? Particularly since Israel holds all the cards. Why the perpetual mantra of weakness? When will Israel do the right thing?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Is there really any hope for peace with the current government in Israel? When will the world admit that israel's internal politics will never allow Palestinian autonomy?
    This is a small sampling of comments from cabinet ministers...the most powerful people in israel.


    Minister of Interior Silvan Shalom (Likud)
    "We are all against a Palestinian state, there is no question about it." - May 2012

    Deputy Minister of Defense (Rabbi) Eli Ben-Dahan (Jewish Home)
    “We oppose a Palestinian state completely... As our party advocates, we need to take full control of Area C [60% of the occupied West Bank] and impose Israeli law there.” - February 2013

    “[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” - August 2013.

    Minister of Internal Security, Minister of Tourism & Cabinet Liaison to the Knesset Yariv Levin (Likud)
    “We will act to strengthen our hold on all parts of Eretz Israel, and will safeguard the settlement enterprise out of faith and the knowledge that exercising our rights to this land is our duty but also the best guarantee for Israel’s security.” - June 2013

    “In this way, we will try, slowly but surely, to expand the circle of settlements, and to afterwards extend the roads that lead to them, and so forth. At the end of this process, the facts on the ground will be that whatever remains [of the occupied West Bank] will be merely marginal appendages… We fully agree and are completely united behind the prime minister’s position, which is to strengthen our foothold in the Land of Israel, to build in [occupied East] Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]." - January 2013

    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question

    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.
    It's been over 65 years and no governement of Israel has. When? And if not this regime, which one? Don't you think it's time? Mistake after mistake, land after land theft, innocent dead civilians like they mean nothing, when will Israel allow the Palestinians to live "somewhat" dignified lives? And plz don't tell me when they stop launching missiles at Israel. Give me something "real."
    Your math is pretty interesting given that the occupation is only 48 years old. I wasn't aware that Israel was responsible for the lack of Palestinian autonomy while the West Bank was under Jordanian occupation (learn a new thing every day!).

    I don't know when. I hope tomorrow.
    That math gives away the game. It's not "the occupation" that bugs him...it's the existance of Israel at all.
    My math gives it away? Hahaha, because since the day Israel was created, the Palestinians have been suffering since day 1. As I've said BEFORE, see if YOU, BS, can follow, I know it's fucken hard for you because you're slow, but try. Israel has the right to exist, and WILL exist. So do the Palestinians and Palestine. Here, I'll say it again, Israel has the right to exit and will exist. Now put your hard on away.
    So now you're a zionist too?
    Nah, just a human who cares about other people. Unlike your ass
    Well which is it? Please explain. I'm slooooooooow.
    that's evident
    Are you choosing to dodge the question? If it wasn't clear please explain how your belief in the right for Israel to exist doesn't make you a zionist? I have heard other people make that claim before but I'm curious how you personally explain it.
    Wait, let me get this straight. Because I know reality and know that Israel isn't going anywhere, and have "accepted" that, that makes me a Zionist? Really? you take the yellow cake BS.
    You said specifically that "Israel has the right to exist". That is more then just accepting reality and I applaud you for it. Now that you have said it though I want to actually hear how you now differ from the average zionist. There are many zionists who criticize Israel so it can't just be that?
    Well, for one, I believe that Palestine does have the right to exist and has existed for some time. Once you can get over that, then maybe I'll elaborate some more.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082

    But while you may believe that Palestine has the right to exist, you'll not advocate for anything nor support elected or representatives that will or would make it a reality. Talk is cheap. Why so long? Particularly since Israel holds all the cards. Why the perpetual mantra of weakness? When will Israel do the right thing?

    That is just a false portrayal of my positions.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,379
    So what is your position? Spell it out. Be clear. Help me understand your true portrayal of your position.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082
    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Is there really any hope for peace with the current government in Israel? When will the world admit that israel's internal politics will never allow Palestinian autonomy?
    This is a small sampling of comments from cabinet ministers...the most powerful people in israel.



    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question

    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.
    It's been over 65 years and no governement of Israel has. When? And if not this regime, which one? Don't you think it's time? Mistake after mistake, land after land theft, innocent dead civilians like they mean nothing, when will Israel allow the Palestinians to live "somewhat" dignified lives? And plz don't tell me when they stop launching missiles at Israel. Give me something "real."
    Your math is pretty interesting given that the occupation is only 48 years old. I wasn't aware that Israel was responsible for the lack of Palestinian autonomy while the West Bank was under Jordanian occupation (learn a new thing every day!).

    I don't know when. I hope tomorrow.
    That math gives away the game. It's not "the occupation" that bugs him...it's the existance of Israel at all.
    My math gives it away? Hahaha, because since the day Israel was created, the Palestinians have been suffering since day 1. As I've said BEFORE, see if YOU, BS, can follow, I know it's fucken hard for you because you're slow, but try. Israel has the right to exist, and WILL exist. So do the Palestinians and Palestine. Here, I'll say it again, Israel has the right to exit and will exist. Now put your hard on away.
    So now you're a zionist too?
    Nah, just a human who cares about other people. Unlike your ass
    Well which is it? Please explain. I'm slooooooooow.
    that's evident
    Are you choosing to dodge the question? If it wasn't clear please explain how your belief in the right for Israel to exist doesn't make you a zionist? I have heard other people make that claim before but I'm curious how you personally explain it.
    Wait, let me get this straight. Because I know reality and know that Israel isn't going anywhere, and have "accepted" that, that makes me a Zionist? Really? you take the yellow cake BS.
    You said specifically that "Israel has the right to exist". That is more then just accepting reality and I applaud you for it. Now that you have said it though I want to actually hear how you now differ from the average zionist. There are many zionists who criticize Israel so it can't just be that?
    Well, for one, I believe that Palestine does have the right to exist and has existed for some time. Once you can get over that, then maybe I'll elaborate some more.
    I have always believed that as well so please continue...
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Is there really any hope for peace with the current government in Israel? When will the world admit that israel's internal politics will never allow Palestinian autonomy?
    This is a small sampling of comments from cabinet ministers...the most powerful people in israel.



    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question

    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.
    It's been over 65 years and no governement of Israel has. When? And if not this regime, which one? Don't you think it's time? Mistake after mistake, land after land theft, innocent dead civilians like they mean nothing, when will Israel allow the Palestinians to live "somewhat" dignified lives? And plz don't tell me when they stop launching missiles at Israel. Give me something "real."
    Your math is pretty interesting given that the occupation is only 48 years old. I wasn't aware that Israel was responsible for the lack of Palestinian autonomy while the West Bank was under Jordanian occupation (learn a new thing every day!).

    I don't know when. I hope tomorrow.
    That math gives away the game. It's not "the occupation" that bugs him...it's the existance of Israel at all.
    My math gives it away? Hahaha, because since the day Israel was created, the Palestinians have been suffering since day 1. As I've said BEFORE, see if YOU, BS, can follow, I know it's fucken hard for you because you're slow, but try. Israel has the right to exist, and WILL exist. So do the Palestinians and Palestine. Here, I'll say it again, Israel has the right to exit and will exist. Now put your hard on away.
    So now you're a zionist too?
    Nah, just a human who cares about other people. Unlike your ass
    Well which is it? Please explain. I'm slooooooooow.
    that's evident
    Are you choosing to dodge the question? If it wasn't clear please explain how your belief in the right for Israel to exist doesn't make you a zionist? I have heard other people make that claim before but I'm curious how you personally explain it.
    Wait, let me get this straight. Because I know reality and know that Israel isn't going anywhere, and have "accepted" that, that makes me a Zionist? Really? you take the yellow cake BS.
    You said specifically that "Israel has the right to exist". That is more then just accepting reality and I applaud you for it. Now that you have said it though I want to actually hear how you now differ from the average zionist. There are many zionists who criticize Israel so it can't just be that?
    Well, for one, I believe that Palestine does have the right to exist and has existed for some time. Once you can get over that, then maybe I'll elaborate some more.
    I have always believed that as well so please continue...
    By all means, you first. I believe H2M has asked you a valid question that I'm sure the rest of us would like to know as well. Go on...
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    I see BS has went back into hiding. Ask him a tough question and he bounces. He'll be back prob some time tomorrow with some other bullshit article, dodging the question H2M has asked him.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255

    So what is your position? Spell it out. Be clear. Help me understand your true portrayal of your position.

    Still waiting........
  • InHiding80InHiding80 Upland,CAPosts: 7,623
    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    yosi said:

    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    Is there really any hope for peace with the current government in Israel? When will the world admit that israel's internal politics will never allow Palestinian autonomy?
    This is a small sampling of comments from cabinet ministers...the most powerful people in israel.

    In Their Own Words: Senior Israeli Officials on the Palestinian Question

    Prime Minister & Minister of Foreign Affairs Benjamin Netanyahu (Likud Party Leader)
    [Question: If you are reelected prime minister, there will be no Palestinian state?] “Indeed.” - March 2015

    “[A]s long as Likud is in power, we won't divide Jerusalem, we won't make concessions, we won't withdraw from land." - March 2015

    “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan [the occupied West Bank].” - July 2014

    Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Tzipi Hotovely (Likud)
    “We are opposed to a Palestinian state... [Netanyahu's 2009 declaration of support for a Palestinian state at Bar-Ilan University was] a tactical speech for the rest of the world." - December 2012

    Minister of Education & Minister of Jerusalem and Diaspora Affairs Naftali Bennett (Jewish Home Party Leader)
    "I will do everything in my power, forever, to fight against a Palestinian state being founded in the Land of Israel." - January 2013

    Minister of Interior Silvan Shalom (Likud)
    "We are all against a Palestinian state, there is no question about it." - May 2012

    Deputy Minister of Defense (Rabbi) Eli Ben-Dahan (Jewish Home)
    “We oppose a Palestinian state completely... As our party advocates, we need to take full control of Area C [60% of the occupied West Bank] and impose Israeli law there.” - February 2013

    “[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” - August 2013.

    Minister of Internal Security, Minister of Tourism & Cabinet Liaison to the Knesset Yariv Levin (Likud)
    “We will act to strengthen our hold on all parts of Eretz Israel, and will safeguard the settlement enterprise out of faith and the knowledge that exercising our rights to this land is our duty but also the best guarantee for Israel’s security.” - June 2013

    “In this way, we will try, slowly but surely, to expand the circle of settlements, and to afterwards extend the roads that lead to them, and so forth. At the end of this process, the facts on the ground will be that whatever remains [of the occupied West Bank] will be merely marginal appendages… We fully agree and are completely united behind the prime minister’s position, which is to strengthen our foothold in the Land of Israel, to build in [occupied East] Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]." - January 2013

    “Even when the prime minister [Netanyahu] spoke about the issue of two states, he didn’t speak about a [Palestinian] state in the full sense. He spoke about a long range of conditions that he himself says there is no chance that they will be fulfilled in the near future due to the actions of the other side." - January 2013

    Minister of Immigration and Absorption & Minister for Jerusalem Affairs Zeev Elkin (Likud)
    “I certainly think a Palestinian state is no solution. And if I think a Palestinian state is no solution, that means I do want a Jewish presence here. Which raises the question: What do you do with the Palestinian population? And I don’t think the answer to that question can be found right now. But a Palestinian state is no solution, not for us and I don’t think for them either.” - July 2013

    “We will try to apply sovereignty over the maximum [of the occupied West Bank] that we can at any given moment… It will take time to change people’s awareness but in the end this will penetrate. And then, what seems today like a fairy tale will eventually become political reality, and the reality on the ground.” - January 2013

    Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Uri Ariel (Jewish Home)
    “…not even one settlement in Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] will be uprooted... Israeli citizens [settlers] will only be under full Israeli sovereignty. And west of the Jordan River there will only be one state and that is the state of Israel." - March 2014

    “With God’s help we will continue building all the land of Israel and Jerusalem the capital… It must be made clear that this is only the beginning. This melody can’t be stopped… We can and will market thousands of [settlement] apartments in [occupied East] Jerusalem and there are more than 10,000 apartments ready for marketing in Judea and Samaria.” - August 2013

    Minister of Transportation and Road Safety & Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy Yisrael Katz (Likud)

    "I am opposed to a Palestinian state. It is unacceptable, mainly because of our rights to this land." - July 2013

    Minister of Science, Technology, and Space Danny Danon (Likud)
    “A deal giving up most of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank] – the current Likud leadership will not accept that... We [who oppose such steps] are the majority in the party.” - September 2013

    “Look at the government: there was never a government discussion, resolution or vote about the two-state solution... If you will bring it to a vote in the government... you will see the majority of Likud ministers, along with the Jewish Home [party], will be against it… Today we’re not fighting it, but if there will be a move to promote a two-state solution, you will see forces blocking it within the [Likud] party and the government." - June 2013

    "The long-term vision is to apply Jewish sovereignty over the Jewish communities [settlements] of Judea and Samaria, and I am proud of it.” - November 2012

    http://imeu.org/article/in-their-own-words-senior-israeli-officials-on-the-palestinian-question

    I don't agree that Israel's internal politics will categorically never allow Palestinian autonomy, BUT I do agree that the current coalition government isn't going to do it.
    It's been over 65 years and no governement of Israel has. When? And if not this regime, which one? Don't you think it's time? Mistake after mistake, land after land theft, innocent dead civilians like they mean nothing, when will Israel allow the Palestinians to live "somewhat" dignified lives? And plz don't tell me when they stop launching missiles at Israel. Give me something "real."
    Your math is pretty interesting given that the occupation is only 48 years old. I wasn't aware that Israel was responsible for the lack of Palestinian autonomy while the West Bank was under Jordanian occupation (learn a new thing every day!).

    I don't know when. I hope tomorrow.
    That math gives away the game. It's not "the occupation" that bugs him...it's the existance of Israel at all.
    My math gives it away? Hahaha, because since the day Israel was created, the Palestinians have been suffering since day 1. As I've said BEFORE, see if YOU, BS, can follow, I know it's fucken hard for you because you're slow, but try. Israel has the right to exist, and WILL exist. So do the Palestinians and Palestine. Here, I'll say it again, Israel has the right to exit and will exist. Now put your hard on away.
    So now you're a zionist too?
    I know you are. So, what am I?
    Are you guys for real?
    Hi, Pot. Have we met? My name is Kettle.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    badbrains said:

    So what is your position? Spell it out. Be clear. Help me understand your true portrayal of your position.

    Still waiting........
    And still waiting.......
  • yosiyosi Posts: 2,213
    I can't speak to what BS believes, but as far as I can tell from what I've read on just this thread, you're both misrepresenting his position (and mine, for that matter) insofar as you both assume that a tenet of Zionism is the denial of Palestinian rights. He's very clearly stated that that is not his position, and I haven't seen him post anything on this thread that is obviously to the contrary.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    yosi said:

    I can't speak to what BS believes, but as far as I can tell from what I've read on just this thread, you're both misrepresenting his position (and mine, for that matter) insofar as you both assume that a tenet of Zionism is the denial of Palestinian rights. He's very clearly stated that that is not his position, and I haven't seen him post anything on this thread that is obviously to the contrary.

    He can speak for himself yosi. He doesn't need a big brother to speak for him. He obviously thinks he's a big boy on numerous occasions. I want to hear it from himself. I'd like to know his answer to H2M question.
  • yosiyosi Posts: 2,213
    I agree. He can certainly speak for himself, and has done so repeatedly and, to my mind, coherently. Which is why I neither understand your confusion nor your objections to what he has said, except insofar as you have intentionally misstated or misunderstood his positions.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    edited June 2015
    BS said:
    That math gives away the game. It's not "the occupation" that bugs him...it's the existance of Israel at all.

    I'd like to add, if I may. Let me explain something to you BS. My people come from the Caucasus mountains of Russia. Here's a little history on my people:


    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing_of_Circassians

    So as you can see, if you read what I linked, my people know exactly what it's like to be "cleansed" or attempted genocide. We can relate to the Jewish people, basically more so then most people. There's no exact number for how many of my people were killed or cleansed. Some say 500,000-2 million over the years. We migrated over the world. From the Middle East to North America and Europe. Here's something that's gonna blow your head. We even migrated to Israel. Yup, that's right, Israel.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kfar_Kama

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rehaniya

    Israel has been real good to my people. They live lives great in Israel. They have 2 villages (links up), serve in the idf and basically live almost as good as the Jewish people in Israel. So the existence of Israel is important to my people and I don't take that for granted. Have friends there and would love to visit those places some day.

    What I'm trying to get at, is your game of trying to make me look like an anti-Semite or Jew hater is ridiculous. My issue is and always will be with the regimes that control that country. You keep trying like its your end game to make me look like some racist anti-Semite when I'm not. You're trying to slander me on the internet like a fucken loser. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't like you and it's clear you don't like me. I wouldn't waste my piss on you if you were on fire. I can tell id never enjoy a beer with you or God forbid a bowl. You come on to annoy and you do that well. It's not what you say, because your posts have been shredded to pieces.(I know, you think otherwise) its just you. Me having to defend myself because some idiot keeps trying to make me look like an anti-Semite is ridiculous. But hey, keep trying. And I'll keep chirping at you till the sun rises on the west and sets in the east.

    Sorry everyone else reading this, the blueberry KUSH has me rolling tonight and I felt like I needed to post this stoners rant. Please carry on....
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    yosi said:

    I agree. He can certainly speak for himself, and has done so repeatedly and, to my mind, coherently. Which is why I neither understand your confusion nor your objections to what he has said, except insofar as you have intentionally misstated or misunderstood his positions.

    You're talking about one issue, maybe it's you who's confused. Oh wait, yosi is never wrong, sorry.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    yosi said:

    I agree. He can certainly speak for himself, and has done so repeatedly and, to my mind, coherently. Which is why I neither understand your confusion nor your objections to what he has said, except insofar as you have intentionally misstated or misunderstood his positions.

    I see he has gone back and edited his post yesterday. Didn't see that part until I went back. I apologize for not seeing it.
  • yosiyosi Posts: 2,213
    Dude, chill out. You're acting like a bully and a jerk. I don't know where your animosity is coming from. Clearly it's got a long history, cause I haven't seen BS say anything on this thread that would warrant the kind of rage you're throwing his way, which, by the way, he seems to be doing a pretty good job of not reciprocating.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    yosi said:

    Dude, chill out. You're acting like a bully and a jerk. I don't know where your animosity is coming from. Clearly it's got a long history, cause I haven't seen BS say anything on this thread that would warrant the kind of rage you're throwing his way, which, by the way, he seems to be doing a pretty good job of not reciprocating.

    First, I posted that I didn't see he answered because he went back and edited an earlier post. I was waiting for his response, thinking it would be a new post not an old posted edited with his answer.

    as for my rage, you must of not saw his remark about me wanting all Israel and Jewish supporters to wear yellow stars. I'm not gonna let that go. I'm not gonna have some clown try to slander me on the Internet and turn a cheek. Would you? So sorry if my rage bothers you. Know the whole story before chiming in.
  • yosiyosi Posts: 2,213
    You're right, I didn't see that. And if you don't want to let that go that's fine. But he hasn't been saying anything like that on this thread, and you ignoring what he's actually writing and instead responding to an old slight isn't doing anything other than souring the conversation.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    edited June 2015
    yosi said:

    You're right, I didn't see that. And if you don't want to let that go that's fine. But he hasn't been saying anything like that on this thread, and you ignoring what he's actually writing and instead responding to an old slight isn't doing anything other than souring the conversation.

    Oh, see you didn't see that part where I offered an olive branch to him after he made that remark. He couldn't just accept it, he had to mock it. So I'll let it go when I feel is the time. Again, how would you feel? Don't give me no Mumbo jumbo bullshit "you'd let it go". Like ive said, I'd just about share a beer or smoke a toke with anyone in here but him. That says a lot.
    Post edited by badbrains on
  • yosiyosi Posts: 2,213
    Again, I don't care whether you let it go. That's your business. I'm just saying that if you can't bring yourself to respond rationally to what he's actually writing NOW, then maybe you just shouldn't respond to him at all. Cause at this point you're not accomplishing anything other than injecting uncalled-for negativity into the conversation.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082
    Holy crap. Sorry for working today boys. I didn't realize this forum required instantaneous replies. Tight rant though badbrains...it added a lot of depth to the conversation.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    Lol, the 2 apologists are trying to Eiffel Tower me.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 20,627
    Simple solution, quote people. You may still get ignored but they cant edit.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • yosiyosi Posts: 2,213
    badbrains said:

    Lol, the 2 apologists are trying to Eiffel Tower me.

    You sling an awful lot of mud without provocation for someone so upset about how someone else characterized him.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,331
    badbrains said:

    yosi said:

    You're right, I didn't see that. And if you don't want to let that go that's fine. But he hasn't been saying anything like that on this thread, and you ignoring what he's actually writing and instead responding to an old slight isn't doing anything other than souring the conversation.

    Oh, see you didn't see that part where I offered an olive branch to him after he made that remark. He couldn't just accept it, he had to mock it. So I'll let it go when I feel is the time. Again, how would you feel? Don't give me no Mumbo jumbo bullshit "you'd let it go". Like ive said, I'd just about share a beer or smoke a toke with anyone in here but him. That says a lot.
    Nart, two Jews are here suggesting you let go of a comment we both recognize as absurd, about Jews wearing yellow stars. If anyone would be unlikely to let it go - it would be either of us. I want this conversation to move forward, not go backwards. Until this conversation moves to become about the topic again as opposed to those discussing it, I'm sorry to say that I honestly don't see that happening. Don't you think if we thought his statement had ANY credence whatsoever we'd be holding him to a validating statement, and you to an apology?

    Here's the original statement from BS (because most of us except for the internet archival tools have forgotten. The context - BS was being inquired about his religion, and had been for some time): "Well I guess I am not sure why it matters? Do different religions carry different weight on here? What if I am not religious at all? Would life be easier for you if some forum members wore a yellow star?"

    This seems very obviously an extreme example to display the historical dangers of categorically linking a person to a sect, lest their opinion be put on a pedestal or in a hole whether consciously or subconsciously. This is not a statement suggesting you would do this in any way, shape or form, but the reality is, it is hard for any of us to strip ourselves of an inherent prejudice based on what we know, which is based on what we've been taught, which is based on who has indoctrinated us, which is based on where their prejudices came from.

    The message I took out of it was as I stated above, and that it validates one's right to keep his or her religious affiliations to his or her self. Nart, you and I have readily offered our religious affiliations, but that is by choice, not obligation, and that's the way it should be. Not to mention, there are Zionists who aren't Jews, there are Jews who are anti-Zionism. I honestly could care less. We are talking about human issues.

    Now, please, I am begging here, can we move the fuck on and talk about things that matter? I come here to learn, not to argue.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SCPosts: 8,661
    I didn't know insofar was one word.
Sign In or Register to comment.