as a band gets bigger......they have more to do. more to do means more people to employ. more people to employ means..........you see where I'm going with this? it's really not hard to understand.
all bands are a business. they have been from day 1. whether you sell 3 records or 3 million. and business decisions have to be made. marketing your music has to be done. make no mistake about that.
anyway, we get a thread or two about this every few months, and it always goes nowhere, since the person starting is merely looking for a soapbox and not a real discussion, so let's just call this one, shall we?
I shall end with one final thought: if you truly believe the band goes against their (and it seems, your) social beliefs, doesn't your support of that band make you a hypocrite or a part of the problem?
your like the ultimate voice of reason, very hard to argue your points. I guess I'm struggling with my support or "fandom" and instead of a soapbox, I'm using this forum to gauge wether I should continue supporting what I believe has become more of a corporation (seeking my yearly membership dues and merchandise consumption) and less like band.
my personal opinion, is that the band is actually partially responsible for the nutbar consumerism of their merch. But not because they put out too much, it's because of the limited status of the shit they put out. show specific everything, which is great, but they don't guage the interest properly. do they do that in order to generate buzz so people will buy the less desireable merch in CASE it increases in value? like someone buying a dog collar for no other reason than they might profit off it later? who knows. I doubt it.
in my personal opinion, if you like the music, that's all that should matter. did you enjoy Ten more because of Ed's anti-fur stance? did you spin Vitalogy more because you also hated ticketmaster?
i doubt it.
but you respected the band. i get it. it was part of their allure for some. just forget about that shit and listen to the music.
And you believe that one of the band members posted this... or the person responsible to drive sales into their shop?
I really love the "discover more in the shop" part! Really good salesmanship!
That's just somebody working at the 10C warehouse who posted that, FYI. The band would have had absolutely nothing to do with that message.
lol, "somebody" in the warehouse has the ability to make posts on their official twitter page? lol! now that is the funniest shit I have ever read!
Hold on, you actually think the band members are the ones posting to the social media accounts?????
Did I say that? Obviously not, but it's certainly someone with more authority than "somebody" in the warehouse!
Huh? There are only like 7 people working for 10C altogether, and they all work at the warehouse. One of them would have posted the message.... That's the "somebody" I was referring to.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I am aware of what Eddie said at the Grammys. Eddie has since expressed real regret for doing that btw, and not recently. He said he was in a really pissy mood, was nic'ing out for a smoke, and admitted that was pretty rude of him to do that. Especially since he opted to actually be at the Grammys to accept the award. Did you see the really nice and gracious acceptance speech from the guy who accepted the most recent Grammy?
I didn't know he had since expressed regret. But I did always think it was weird that he made that statement, yet bothered to show up to the show. if you hate awards shows, why go to an awards show?
He was also drunk, lol.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,435
All I got to say is if the band's intent is to be greedy they have the worst business plan in the history of finance. They keep ticket prices low, they only sell limited amounts of merch, and their quality control leaves much to be desired. Amazon.com they are not.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
All I got to say is if the band's intent is to be greedy they have the worst business plan in the history of finance. They keep ticket prices low, they only sell limited amounts of merch, and their quality control leaves much to be desired. Amazon.com they are not.
It's true, I have been convinced that my feelings/views are untoward. Thank-you. earnest!
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on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,435
They also donate tons of money to charity. Which I think is the exact opposite of greed.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
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WhatYouTaughtMe
I have no idea what's going on right now! Posts: 4,957
Ok so I have had some questions myself and ultimately came to the following conclusion which is strictly my opinion and I cannot speak for the band. It always seemed to me they were against people co-opting an image or sound and trading on it when they had no involvement other than making money off of someone else's work. They do most things in house and aren't backed by a major label. I think over the years they have probably learned a lot about the costs in promoting and distributing an album they might not have realized when someone else was doing it. That as well as touring, which would be a reason they actually do have sponsors these days when in the past they avoided it. I remember Jeff years ago saying one of the biggest misconceptions about the band is they hate money. I also think they are not marketing or PR experts and sometimes things do come off as cheesy because of that in house aspect. At one point for a couple years they were arguably the biggest band in the world and didn't require a lot of these things to generate revenue. Those days are long gone and if they require a lot of this extra stuff to generate revenue, I'm good with that. As long as they keep spreading dollars and overall goodness in the world, a-fucking-men! That being said, the quality control of some of this stuff is shotty and I'd like to see that get better. I'd also like to see people chill the fuck out and not act like a two dollar sticker is gold, but hey whatever melts your butter.
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on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,435
On another note... it's interesting that Ed spat on the Grammy but fully embraced the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame by playing with the Doors and inducting Neil. Kinda of similar things with both requiring one to judge the worthiness of a piece of art.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
It's called the "music business" for a reason. Because music/bands are a business.
I don't think PJ has ever once said they don't want to make money or be a business, I really can't think of a band that has.
They just aren't a profit first business, I would say they aren't even a profit second or third business either. Profit may be fourth or fifth on the list. But based on their size and popularity, that probably still means a lot scratch.
If you want to separate music from business then you have to support the guy on the street playing for the love of it. But even he/she accepts donations.
Even going to see a small indie band play at a club, the club has them there to put butts in the bar who will also buy drinks, pay cover etc... The band is playing to get exposure to their music and hopefully sell some shirts, records, CDs etc... to be able to tour more, or record more, and make a living.
Does it gross you out when you go to a small show and the band mentions they're selling shirts and CDs in the back? That's business.
This is no different, just on a larger scale with employees, charities etc... to pay for.
On another note... it's interesting that Ed spat on the Grammy but fully embraced the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame by playing with the Doors and inducting Neil. Kinda of similar things with both requiring one to judge the worthiness of a piece of art.
I've always found that kind of hypocritical as well. it's not like the RRHOF is voted on by peers. it's a bunch of old white guys, just like the grammys. he just likes it when his friends get awarded! LOL
I think he's probably just having a little fun just like anyone else. The RRHOF inductions are an excuse for all of the best muscians to get together and get drunk and talk about old times and bands, acknowledge some of the greats, etc etc. I see no reason to take it so seriously.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I think he's probably just having a little fun just like anyone else. The RRHOF inductions are an excuse for all of the best muscians to get together and get drunk and talk about old times and bands, acknowledge some of the greats, etc etc. I see no reason to take it so seriously.
That answer makes the most sense.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
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on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,435
I am aware of what Eddie said at the Grammys. Eddie has since expressed real regret for doing that btw, and not recently. He said he was in a really pissy mood, was nic'ing out for a smoke, and admitted that was pretty rude of him to do that. Especially since he opted to actually be at the Grammys to accept the award. Did you see the really nice and gracious acceptance speech from the guy who accepted the most recent Grammy?
Eddie has expressed regret? Do you have a link to back that up? It would be interesting to read if that is the case, because all I remember is Pearl Jam 20 and how he said he should have started a fight instead. Not really regretting anything.
I am aware of what Eddie said at the Grammys. Eddie has since expressed real regret for doing that btw, and not recently. He said he was in a really pissy mood, was nic'ing out for a smoke, and admitted that was pretty rude of him to do that. Especially since he opted to actually be at the Grammys to accept the award. Did you see the really nice and gracious acceptance speech from the guy who accepted the most recent Grammy?
Eddie has expressed regret? Do you have a link to back that up? It would be interesting to read if that is the case, because all I remember is Pearl Jam 20 and how he said he should have started a fight instead. Not really regretting anything.
There is a video where he says it during some random interview. I know 100% that I've seen it, but I can't remember what interview it was. It was earlier than PJ20. I just randomly landed on it on youtube a couple of years ago. Sorry. Surely someone else reading this who has a better memory has seen it. I remember he specifically talked about how he hadn't been allowed to smoke inside, so that made him pissy, so he figured that had something to do with him acting like that.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
And I will wait patiently for you to name another major act that charges $80 for front of house seats.
Tool
Sounds like they're in the top 1% of fan friendly ticket prices.
Believe me, I'm just as surprised cuz they do charge a lot for their mercy products. But I believe I actually paid $79.50 back in 09?? At Nokia theater LA.
In my opinion, there would be no reason to buy something from a band's website if you don't currently have money available for it.
Band merchandise is so extremely optional, if a person needs to lay-it-away, he or she probably shouldn't be buying it!!
It doesn't matter to me how much anybody charges for optional merchandise because I have the choice to buy it or not. It bothers me when people can't afford food or shoes or a place to live, but posters and trinkets are not something I worry about.
And I will wait patiently for you to name another major act that charges $80 for front of house seats.
Tool
Tool tours the eat coast seemingly once a decade and hasn't put out a record in 9 years
And their show is 1.5 hours. Saw em about 3-4 years ago. Good show but less than two hours long and a pretty standard setlist. Not one song off Opiate and not one "rarity". There is just no comparison vs a PJ live show.
And I will wait patiently for you to name another major act that charges $80 for front of house seats.
Tool
Tool tours the eat coast seemingly once a decade and hasn't put out a record in 9 years
A long outstanding legal battle with their record label is why they haven't put a new record out. It's still going on. From what I've read, they have plenty of music put together to make an album, they just can't legally make it the way they would like to do it.
The only reason I think this subject needs dialogue is because the band was so vocal about some of the things they hated, which they now do as well. When someone or something uses their fame to make a point and then without explanation reverses course, don't you feel that deserves calling out?
name one SPECIFIC thing the band spoke out against but now does.
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
What other outlet do they have besides TM though? Tickets.com? Same racket, different name. Sure, they spoke out about TM, but the Supreme Court determined that TM wasn't in the wrong despite everyone who's ever bought a ticket to anything knowing differently. They fought for us, they lost. They tried to do it on their own terms and failed. We've all heard the horror stories of the 94-96 tours. Jeff even said himself that it almost killed their career. We all know TM still uses shady business practices (holding back tickets, reselling thru their own service) but at least they disclose all fees now. That's one of the things PJ was fighting for.
Comments
in my personal opinion, if you like the music, that's all that should matter. did you enjoy Ten more because of Ed's anti-fur stance? did you spin Vitalogy more because you also hated ticketmaster?
i doubt it.
but you respected the band. i get it. it was part of their allure for some. just forget about that shit and listen to the music.
www.headstonesband.com
I don't think PJ has ever once said they don't want to make money or be a business, I really can't think of a band that has.
They just aren't a profit first business, I would say they aren't even a profit second or third business either. Profit may be fourth or fifth on the list. But based on their size and popularity, that probably still means a lot scratch.
If you want to separate music from business then you have to support the guy on the street playing for the love of it. But even he/she accepts donations.
Even going to see a small indie band play at a club, the club has them there to put butts in the bar who will also buy drinks, pay cover etc... The band is playing to get exposure to their music and hopefully sell some shirts, records, CDs etc... to be able to tour more, or record more, and make a living.
Does it gross you out when you go to a small show and the band mentions they're selling shirts and CDs in the back? That's business.
This is no different, just on a larger scale with employees, charities etc... to pay for.
www.headstonesband.com
Jaaaaaaaaaaysus.
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“I think you won, but I enjoyed the fight” - EV
Band merchandise is so extremely optional, if a person needs to lay-it-away, he or she probably shouldn't be buying it!!
It doesn't matter to me how much anybody charges for optional merchandise because I have the choice to buy it or not. It bothers me when people can't afford food or shoes or a place to live, but posters and trinkets are not something I worry about.
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
1995- New Orleans, LA : New Orleans, LA
1996- Charleston, SC
1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore