Let's say that a bunch of white college kids are drunk & harassing people as they walk around a city. Someone calls the cops because drunk college kids are causing a problem. Cops show up & one white college kid mouths off at cop because he's drunk & his self entitlement is in overdrive. Starts yelling about his constitutional rights & starts to walk towards officer. Does the cop shoot him because he fears the kid will take his gun or assault him? He has no idea if the kid is armed. Does the cop shoot the kid; should he? Now, let's say a black kid is harassing people as he walks around his neighborhood, which is several miles away from where the college kids are getting drunk. He runs into his house when he knows the cops are coming.. He leaves in a body bag cause cop said he was in fear of his life AND HE REACHED FOR HIS GUN. No one saw this, but the police officer says that's what happened. (And really, we all know how these kids are, right? The black kid may or may not be an angel, just as the drunk white college kid may or may not be angels. Not many kids that age are angels. Do they deserve to die? The white college kids do not have an ingrained fear of being harassed or killed by police. They have never been stopped on the road just because they look suspicious to a particular police officer. They can't even imagine anything worse than being possibly taken down to the station & having to explain their behavior to their parents. The black kid has grown up knowing that police officers shoot as a first resort instead of last resort. He knows people, or has personally experienced, being profiled. He has every expectation that the police officer is going to hurt or kill him. He is unarmed. But the cop has a gun, pepper spray, taser, club AND training on how to de-escalate dangerous situations. He is trained to use only the appropriate amount of force, if any, to get the situation under control. Yet, he uses the most lethal weapon in the most lethal way within minutes. Most cops are good people who want to protect & serve. Some cops are trigger happy yahoo's with pre conceived notions about certain types of people. Some people are extremely dangerous, gun carrying lunatics, most are not. No one should be shot dead for the crime of acting like a teen age asshole. No one.
in both examples, the cop should only use lethal force if he feels like he is in mortal danger or if he feels those around him might be. you reach for a cop's gun? you risk getting killed. no sympathy here.
and if you had presented the exact same scenario for both black and white victims, yes, i would agree that some cops would shoot the black kid a bit earlier than the white kid. it's human nature to form prejudices based on experience. it's unfortunate that it happens, but it does. lesson: listen to the cops. it's really just that simple.
and about your "growing up white kids don't know harassment" is just not true. me and my friends (white middle class) got stopped COUNTLESS times for no reason other than it was 6 teenage metalheads who were cruising around. they would search our car, yank us out of the car and search us. all the time. we didn't know our rights at the time. they had zero reason to stop us, let alone search us. I wanted to be a cop as a kid, as many kids do. after my teen years, I changed my mind. I didn't want to be a dick for a career. And as much as I fucking hated what they did, I never once lipped off or did anything that might cause an issue with those cops.
I now realize that was just a small fraction of cops, and most are good.
in both examples, the cop should only use lethal force if he feels like he is in mortal danger or if he feels those around him might be. you reach for a cop's gun? you risk getting killed. no sympathy here.
and if you had presented the exact same scenario for both black and white victims, yes, i would agree that some cops would shoot the black kid a bit earlier than the white kid. it's human nature to form prejudices based on experience. it's unfortunate that it happens, but it does. lesson: listen to the cops. it's really just that simple.
and about your "growing up white kids don't know harassment" is just not true. me and my friends (white middle class) got stopped COUNTLESS times for no reason other than it was 6 teenage metalheads who were cruising around. they would search our car, yank us out of the car and search us. all the time. we didn't know our rights at the time. they had zero reason to stop us, let alone search us. I wanted to be a cop as a kid, as many kids do. after my teen years, I changed my mind. I didn't want to be a dick for a career. And as much as I fucking hated what they did, I never once lipped off or did anything that might cause an issue with those cops.
I now realize that was just a small fraction of cops, and most are good.
Let's say that a bunch of white college kids are drunk & harassing people as they walk around a city. Someone calls the cops because drunk college kids are causing a problem. Cops show up & one white college kid mouths off at cop because he's drunk & his self entitlement is in overdrive. Starts yelling about his constitutional rights & starts to walk towards officer. Does the cop shoot him because he fears the kid will take his gun or assault him? He has no idea if the kid is armed. Does the cop shoot the kid; should he? Now, let's say a black kid is harassing people as he walks around his neighborhood, which is several miles away from where the college kids are getting drunk. He runs into his house when he knows the cops are coming.. He leaves in a body bag cause cop said he was in fear of his life AND HE REACHED FOR HIS GUN. No one saw this, but the police officer says that's what happened. (And really, we all know how these kids are, right? The black kid may or may not be an angel, just as the drunk white college kid may or may not be angels. Not many kids that age are angels. Do they deserve to die? The white college kids do not have an ingrained fear of being harassed or killed by police. They have never been stopped on the road just because they look suspicious to a particular police officer. They can't even imagine anything worse than being possibly taken down to the station & having to explain their behavior to their parents. The black kid has grown up knowing that police officers shoot as a first resort instead of last resort. He knows people, or has personally experienced, being profiled. He has every expectation that the police officer is going to hurt or kill him. He is unarmed. But the cop has a gun, pepper spray, taser, club AND training on how to de-escalate dangerous situations. He is trained to use only the appropriate amount of force, if any, to get the situation under control. Yet, he uses the most lethal weapon in the most lethal way within minutes. Most cops are good people who want to protect & serve. Some cops are trigger happy yahoo's with pre conceived notions about certain types of people. Some people are extremely dangerous, gun carrying lunatics, most are not. No one should be shot dead for the crime of acting like a teen age asshole. No one.
in both examples, the cop should only use lethal force if he feels like he is in mortal danger or if he feels those around him might be. you reach for a cop's gun? you risk getting killed. no sympathy here.
and if you had presented the exact same scenario for both black and white victims, yes, i would agree that some cops would shoot the black kid a bit earlier than the white kid. it's human nature to form prejudices based on experience. it's unfortunate that it happens, but it does. lesson: listen to the cops. it's really just that simple.
and about your "growing up white kids don't know harassment" is just not true. me and my friends (white middle class) got stopped COUNTLESS times for no reason other than it was 6 teenage metalheads who were cruising around. they would search our car, yank us out of the car and search us. all the time. we didn't know our rights at the time. they had zero reason to stop us, let alone search us. I wanted to be a cop as a kid, as many kids do. after my teen years, I changed my mind. I didn't want to be a dick for a career. And as much as I fucking hated what they did, I never once lipped off or did anything that might cause an issue with those cops.
I now realize that was just a small fraction of cops, and most are good.
A buddy if mine used to play NCAA football- he always has been huge and shredded. He's also got a bit of a mean streak in him.
Little guys used to antagonize him- provoking him thinking he wouldn't do anything because he was bigger. There were times when he never afforded such a courtesy and the small guy got smacked.
These pests initiated the interaction, wanted to come across as looking competent and cool (why else antagonize a gorilla that can clearly smash you?) and then became indignant and surprised when the big guy wasn't patient with their obnoxious behavior.
This reminds me of the disrespect some have for cops: act like an ass expecting nice treatment. Guess what... you're making a bold and dangerous presumption. If you mess with the bull... sometimes you get the horn.
As you have said: don't mess with the bull. Easy as that.
Drunk or not, listen to fucking cops, you probably won't leave in a body bag. White or black.
I agree with that! While there are cops who are just fucked up, I never understood the need for people to act crazy around them, lol.
Being drunk and stupid should not be a death sentence.
no one is claiming otherwise. all I am saying is, if you put yourself in a position to make the cop feel as if his or others' safety may be at risk, you run the risk of being gunned down.
we're not talking about some douche just mouthing off with a beer in his hand. this is people charging the police when their weapon has already been drawn, and the idiot decides to charge the cop, or reach into his coat pocket when told to remain still, etc. not sure how you can defend that.
if you feel differently, tell me how you, as a cop, would avert this each and every single time so there is a guarantee that you and those around you are kept safe.
Let's say that a bunch of white college kids are drunk & harassing people as they walk around a city. Someone calls the cops because drunk college kids are causing a problem. Cops show up & one white college kid mouths off at cop because he's drunk & his self entitlement is in overdrive. Starts yelling about his constitutional rights & starts to walk towards officer. Does the cop shoot him because he fears the kid will take his gun or assault him? He has no idea if the kid is armed. Does the cop shoot the kid; should he? Now, let's say a black kid is harassing people as he walks around his neighborhood, which is several miles away from where the college kids are getting drunk. He runs into his house when he knows the cops are coming.. He leaves in a body bag cause cop said he was in fear of his life AND HE REACHED FOR HIS GUN. No one saw this, but the police officer says that's what happened. (And really, we all know how these kids are, right? The black kid may or may not be an angel, just as the drunk white college kid may or may not be angels. Not many kids that age are angels. Do they deserve to die? The white college kids do not have an ingrained fear of being harassed or killed by police. They have never been stopped on the road just because they look suspicious to a particular police officer. They can't even imagine anything worse than being possibly taken down to the station & having to explain their behavior to their parents. The black kid has grown up knowing that police officers shoot as a first resort instead of last resort. He knows people, or has personally experienced, being profiled. He has every expectation that the police officer is going to hurt or kill him. He is unarmed. But the cop has a gun, pepper spray, taser, club AND training on how to de-escalate dangerous situations. He is trained to use only the appropriate amount of force, if any, to get the situation under control. Yet, he uses the most lethal weapon in the most lethal way within minutes. Most cops are good people who want to protect & serve. Some cops are trigger happy yahoo's with pre conceived notions about certain types of people. Some people are extremely dangerous, gun carrying lunatics, most are not. No one should be shot dead for the crime of acting like a teen age asshole. No one.
in both examples, the cop should only use lethal force if he feels like he is in mortal danger or if he feels those around him might be. you reach for a cop's gun? you risk getting killed. no sympathy here.
and if you had presented the exact same scenario for both black and white victims, yes, i would agree that some cops would shoot the black kid a bit earlier than the white kid. it's human nature to form prejudices based on experience. it's unfortunate that it happens, but it does. lesson: listen to the cops. it's really just that simple.
and about your "growing up white kids don't know harassment" is just not true. me and my friends (white middle class) got stopped COUNTLESS times for no reason other than it was 6 teenage metalheads who were cruising around. they would search our car, yank us out of the car and search us. all the time. we didn't know our rights at the time. they had zero reason to stop us, let alone search us. I wanted to be a cop as a kid, as many kids do. after my teen years, I changed my mind. I didn't want to be a dick for a career. And as much as I fucking hated what they did, I never once lipped off or did anything that might cause an issue with those cops.
I now realize that was just a small fraction of cops, and most are good.
Hugh, with all due respect your brief encounters of being profiled doesn't compare to lifelong sentence. And think you and your buddies could cut your hair. Drive better car and norms get extra special treatment.
I know I get VIP treatment compared to my minority neighbors.
Let's say that a bunch of white college kids are drunk & harassing people as they walk around a city. Someone calls the cops because drunk college kids are causing a problem. Cops show up & one white college kid mouths off at cop because he's drunk & his self entitlement is in overdrive. Starts yelling about his constitutional rights & starts to walk towards officer. Does the cop shoot him because he fears the kid will take his gun or assault him? He has no idea if the kid is armed. Does the cop shoot the kid; should he? Now, let's say a black kid is harassing people as he walks around his neighborhood, which is several miles away from where the college kids are getting drunk. He runs into his house when he knows the cops are coming.. He leaves in a body bag cause cop said he was in fear of his life AND HE REACHED FOR HIS GUN. No one saw this, but the police officer says that's what happened. (And really, we all know how these kids are, right? The black kid may or may not be an angel, just as the drunk white college kid may or may not be angels. Not many kids that age are angels. Do they deserve to die? The white college kids do not have an ingrained fear of being harassed or killed by police. They have never been stopped on the road just because they look suspicious to a particular police officer. They can't even imagine anything worse than being possibly taken down to the station & having to explain their behavior to their parents. The black kid has grown up knowing that police officers shoot as a first resort instead of last resort. He knows people, or has personally experienced, being profiled. He has every expectation that the police officer is going to hurt or kill him. He is unarmed. But the cop has a gun, pepper spray, taser, club AND training on how to de-escalate dangerous situations. He is trained to use only the appropriate amount of force, if any, to get the situation under control. Yet, he uses the most lethal weapon in the most lethal way within minutes. Most cops are good people who want to protect & serve. Some cops are trigger happy yahoo's with pre conceived notions about certain types of people. Some people are extremely dangerous, gun carrying lunatics, most are not. No one should be shot dead for the crime of acting like a teen age asshole. No one.
in both examples, the cop should only use lethal force if he feels like he is in mortal danger or if he feels those around him might be. you reach for a cop's gun? you risk getting killed. no sympathy here.
and if you had presented the exact same scenario for both black and white victims, yes, i would agree that some cops would shoot the black kid a bit earlier than the white kid. it's human nature to form prejudices based on experience. it's unfortunate that it happens, but it does. lesson: listen to the cops. it's really just that simple.
and about your "growing up white kids don't know harassment" is just not true. me and my friends (white middle class) got stopped COUNTLESS times for no reason other than it was 6 teenage metalheads who were cruising around. they would search our car, yank us out of the car and search us. all the time. we didn't know our rights at the time. they had zero reason to stop us, let alone search us. I wanted to be a cop as a kid, as many kids do. after my teen years, I changed my mind. I didn't want to be a dick for a career. And as much as I fucking hated what they did, I never once lipped off or did anything that might cause an issue with those cops.
I now realize that was just a small fraction of cops, and most are good.
Hugh, with all due respect your brief encounters of being profiled doesn't compare to lifelong sentence. And think you and your buddies could cut your hair. Drive better car and norms get extra special treatment.
I know I get VIP treatment compared to my minority neighbors.
yes, I understand that constant harassment would be much different than what many minorities face on a daily basis. I wasn't trying to dimish that. All I was saying was that you just have to say "you know what, these guys are fuckers, but if I mess with them, how is that going to BENEFIT me?". It NEVER WILL.
I can only imagine how tough that would be given the level of indiginity some people face, and how that anger would inevitibly build. But what else do you do?
Yes, I think the old motto of "don't fuck with the police" is still a good one no matter what your opinion is when it comes to police brutality and excessive force.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
lesson: listen to the cops. it's really just that simple.
I now realize that was just a small fraction of cops, and most are good.
Ya know, I do listen when I get pulled over. It's just a duh move to not to. But I feel that aside from the rest of your post that I didn't quote (but which I appreciate), all the other police supporters here don't ever comment on the topic of police respecting the people they are paid to protect, black or white. I don't feel you guys ever address the NEED to kill, shoot for the chest, and not the shoulder or leg. Where is the backup argument for this. You, Hedonist, 30 bills, Musky, LastExit, etc. I'm talking to you. All you guys do is flat out support with no justification for KILLING another human, when it is supposed to be a last resort. For the sake of humanity, where is your conscience? Do you honestly feel we should obey or else death becomes us, because we dare to question the police?
You reach for a cop's gun, when there are 4 cops and one of you? Death should not be in that equation. The fact that 4 grown men can't handle that scene without killing another man makes the police look BAD. And we are supposed to trust police when they go back and tell their supervisors that THEIR lives were in danger? If there are no witnesses, we are to blankly assume they're telling the truth? That is what's happening and it in no way justifies the death of another human being.
The police of yesteryear were cool, decent people who were in it for the right reasons (meaning, not for the power trip). We never heard of police brutality, and in dealing with cops busting up our parties, or being pulled over for speeding, or anything else for that matter, it was never a problem. They treated us with respect as fellow human beings, we got along, and ultimately we tried to stay away from them. We didn't question them because, due to our mutual respect, they sometimes gave us a break for speeding once in a while, or getting into some other kind of trouble, having beer parties, etc.
The reason cops have a bad name now is because they overall stopped being those same decent people who gave us a break once in a while. Suddenly, some cops have a bone to pick with everyone, they have huge egos and they like carrying around a gun legally, and they like to show everyone who's boss. They stopped showing us respect, especially the white cops with minorities. They became more belligerent. They stopped letting us go with having a headlight out. Suddenly, now the police are using their gun to kill rather than to disarm and capture.
Does anyone see the trend here. One day we have Ponch and Jon of Chips patrolling our highway - the nice guys keeping our area safe, the next - we have a cop, first one, then another, and another... killing because "he can". He has "the authority to". So it seems to me that the supporters are supporters of a police state. Because that's pretty much what we've become.
lesson: listen to the cops. it's really just that simple.
I now realize that was just a small fraction of cops, and most are good.
Ya know, I do listen when I get pulled over. It's just a duh move to not to. But I feel that aside from the rest of your post that I didn't quote (but which I appreciate), all the other police supporters here don't ever comment on the topic of police respecting the people they are paid to protect, black or white. I don't feel you guys ever address the NEED to kill, shoot for the chest, and not the shoulder or leg. Where is the backup argument for this. You, Hedonist, 30 bills, Musky, LastExit, etc. I'm talking to you. All you guys do is flat out support with no justification for KILLING another human, when it is supposed to be a last resort. For the sake of humanity, where is your conscience? Do you honestly feel we should obey or else death becomes us, because we dare to question the police?
You reach for a cop's gun, when there are 4 cops and one of you? Death should not be in that equation. The fact that 4 grown men can't handle that scene without killing another man makes the police look BAD. And we are supposed to trust police when they go back and tell their supervisors that THEIR lives were in danger? If there are no witnesses, we are to blankly assume they're telling the truth? That is what's happening and it in no way justifies the death of another human being.
The NEED has been definitively detailed over and over again: in a life and death situation, a cop is trained to put down his assailant decisively- not 'inch up' to the level necessary or take a 'wait and see' tactic. If an assailant reaches for a cop's gun, the officers there fail to disarm them, and a cop or civilian is killed... that's a problem. This is not hard to understand.
The burden of responsibility in the 'bad guy assaults police officer and gets shot' cases lies with the assailant. Don't blame the cop for defending themselves.
Cop abuse is inexcusable. Cop self-defense is excusable.
lesson: listen to the cops. it's really just that simple.
I now realize that was just a small fraction of cops, and most are good.
Ya know, I do listen when I get pulled over. It's just a duh move to not to. But I feel that aside from the rest of your post that I didn't quote (but which I appreciate), all the other police supporters here don't ever comment on the topic of police respecting the people they are paid to protect, black or white. I don't feel you guys ever address the NEED to kill, shoot for the chest, and not the shoulder or leg. Where is the backup argument for this. You, Hedonist, 30 bills, Musky, LastExit, etc. I'm talking to you. All you guys do is flat out support with no justification for KILLING another human, when it is supposed to be a last resort. For the sake of humanity, where is your conscience? Do you honestly feel we should obey or else death becomes us, because we dare to question the police?
You reach for a cop's gun, when there are 4 cops and one of you? Death should not be in that equation. The fact that 4 grown men can't handle that scene without killing another man makes the police look BAD. And we are supposed to trust police when they go back and tell their supervisors that THEIR lives were in danger? If there are no witnesses, we are to blankly assume they're telling the truth? That is what's happening and it in no way justifies the death of another human being.
Really? Never EVER offer genuine criticism toward the officers who've fucked up?
Who are you to insult some well-spoken (and pretty open-minded) members by questioning conscience and "humanity".
Yes, black hearts we are, the lot of us.
Excuse me, gonna get some dark shades now to cover these blind eyes of mine.
(and maybe you have missed some of the comments that have previously been made, which tie into some of those ridiculous accusations made up there)
Hedonist, with all due respect, I really don't remember one post where you gave a reasonable backup to how actually taking one's life is acceptable. Did you comment why shooting to kill is more acceptable than shooting to disarm?
I've made a number of comments about this (as well as praising situations where lethal force wasn't used) over the course of I don't know how many threads. Whether you've seen them (or consider them unreasonable), I don't know.
Well, then can you repeat. How is taking a life acceptable? Please don't simply say, because cops are the authorita' and we need to always simply listen to them. or else.
Who are you to insult some well-spoken (and pretty open-minded) members by questioning conscience and "humanity".
Then tell me. How is it conscionable to say that death is a reasonable punishment - for reaching for a gun, with four men on you? How it it conscionable to say that death is a reasonable punishment - when a 12 year old is playing with a toy gun? How it it conscionable to say that death is a reasonable punishment - when the victim is telling the 2-3 cops that he can't breathe?
Who are you to insult some well-spoken (and pretty open-minded) members by questioning conscience and "humanity".
Then tell me. How is it conscionable to say that death is a reasonable punishment - for reaching for a gun, with four men on you? How it it conscionable to say that death is a reasonable punishment - when a 12 year old is playing with a toy gun? How it it conscionable to say that death is a reasonable punishment - when the victim is telling the 2-3 cops that he can't breathe?
There's not one member on this forum that isn't appalled by the Rice case.
On the contrary, there are several that stubbornly cling to the notion that knife wielding maniacs or beatdowns with attempts made to grab an officer's gun are not enough justification to render lethal force in self defense.
Is it within the realm of possibilities that these situations could have ended tragically for the officers on the scene? The answer to this question is obviously 'yes'. Fortunately, no officers were killed or seriously hurt in the line of duty dealing with these people and incidents: it's far better it being the offender versus the alternative.
Could things have gone differently? Maybe. Maybe even quite possibly. But your life wasn't the life on the line... soooo... easy to say, huh?
So… the life of the police is more important than of the public? And why is one person's life more important than another? I'm still waiting for hedonist, and a comment on my society post I'm looking forward to as well.
If you're so comfortable, please repeat your stance on how it's all very conscionable, then. Otherwise, I feel you're deflecting the question.
Not deflecting at all but not willing to recite my thoughts - yet again - because you request so. I'm saying if you're so interested, do the legwork and use the search function.
Comments
and if you had presented the exact same scenario for both black and white victims, yes, i would agree that some cops would shoot the black kid a bit earlier than the white kid. it's human nature to form prejudices based on experience. it's unfortunate that it happens, but it does. lesson: listen to the cops. it's really just that simple.
and about your "growing up white kids don't know harassment" is just not true. me and my friends (white middle class) got stopped COUNTLESS times for no reason other than it was 6 teenage metalheads who were cruising around. they would search our car, yank us out of the car and search us. all the time. we didn't know our rights at the time. they had zero reason to stop us, let alone search us. I wanted to be a cop as a kid, as many kids do. after my teen years, I changed my mind. I didn't want to be a dick for a career. And as much as I fucking hated what they did, I never once lipped off or did anything that might cause an issue with those cops.
I now realize that was just a small fraction of cops, and most are good.
www.headstonesband.com
Little guys used to antagonize him- provoking him thinking he wouldn't do anything because he was bigger. There were times when he never afforded such a courtesy and the small guy got smacked.
These pests initiated the interaction, wanted to come across as looking competent and cool (why else antagonize a gorilla that can clearly smash you?) and then became indignant and surprised when the big guy wasn't patient with their obnoxious behavior.
This reminds me of the disrespect some have for cops: act like an ass expecting nice treatment. Guess what... you're making a bold and dangerous presumption. If you mess with the bull... sometimes you get the horn.
As you have said: don't mess with the bull. Easy as that.
we're not talking about some douche just mouthing off with a beer in his hand. this is people charging the police when their weapon has already been drawn, and the idiot decides to charge the cop, or reach into his coat pocket when told to remain still, etc. not sure how you can defend that.
if you feel differently, tell me how you, as a cop, would avert this each and every single time so there is a guarantee that you and those around you are kept safe.
www.headstonesband.com
I know I get VIP treatment compared to my minority neighbors.
I can only imagine how tough that would be given the level of indiginity some people face, and how that anger would inevitibly build. But what else do you do?
www.headstonesband.com
You reach for a cop's gun, when there are 4 cops and one of you? Death should not be in that equation. The fact that 4 grown men can't handle that scene without killing another man makes the police look BAD. And we are supposed to trust police when they go back and tell their supervisors that THEIR lives were in danger? If there are no witnesses, we are to blankly assume they're telling the truth? That is what's happening and it in no way justifies the death of another human being.
The reason cops have a bad name now is because they overall stopped being those same decent people who gave us a break once in a while. Suddenly, some cops have a bone to pick with everyone, they have huge egos and they like carrying around a gun legally, and they like to show everyone who's boss. They stopped showing us respect, especially the white cops with minorities. They became more belligerent. They stopped letting us go with having a headlight out. Suddenly, now the police are using their gun to kill rather than to disarm and capture.
Does anyone see the trend here. One day we have Ponch and Jon of Chips patrolling our highway - the nice guys keeping our area safe, the next - we have a cop, first one, then another, and another... killing because "he can". He has "the authority to". So it seems to me that the supporters are supporters of a police state. Because that's pretty much what we've become.
Good 'ol USA society.
The burden of responsibility in the 'bad guy assaults police officer and gets shot' cases lies with the assailant. Don't blame the cop for defending themselves.
Cop abuse is inexcusable. Cop self-defense is excusable.
Who are you to insult some well-spoken (and pretty open-minded) members by questioning conscience and "humanity".
Yes, black hearts we are, the lot of us.
Excuse me, gonna get some dark shades now to cover these blind eyes of mine.
(and maybe you have missed some of the comments that have previously been made, which tie into some of those ridiculous accusations made up there)
Still...
I've made my views known many a time, so feel free to search my previous comments. And please keep the context of each situation in mind; I have.
I'm comfortable with my conscience, and common-sense stance.
On the contrary, there are several that stubbornly cling to the notion that knife wielding maniacs or beatdowns with attempts made to grab an officer's gun are not enough justification to render lethal force in self defense.
Is it within the realm of possibilities that these situations could have ended tragically for the officers on the scene? The answer to this question is obviously 'yes'. Fortunately, no officers were killed or seriously hurt in the line of duty dealing with these people and incidents: it's far better it being the offender versus the alternative.
Could things have gone differently? Maybe. Maybe even quite possibly. But your life wasn't the life on the line... soooo... easy to say, huh?
It's all there, and I've got nothing to hide.