What the hell happened in Wisconsin?

backseatLover12

Jesus, hedonist, if you nothing to hide, you'd just say it. I have read this thread since it started, and the only thing that sticks out is that you support the police using deadly force. Prove me wrong.

backseatLover12

PJ_Soul said:

I think he means the life of the person not being threatening and crazy, and instead trying to protect the public, wins, if one must die.

Ok, I see what you mean. But what if, in turn, it's the cop that's being threatening and crazy. I feel that notion is never discussed, almost as if it's voodoo to even discuss that the police may be the bad guys in some situations. But we now know they can be. So who's life is more valuable? Why is it, we support those in authority with no questions asked? Well, I'm asking that question.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

backseatLover12 said:

PJ_Soul said:

I think he means the life of the person not being threatening and crazy, and instead trying to protect the public, wins, if one must die.

Ok, I see what you mean. But what if, in turn, it's the cop that's being threatening and crazy. I feel that notion is never discussed, almost as if it's voodoo to even discuss that the police may be the bad guys in some situations. But we now know they can be. So who's life is more valuable? Why is it, we support those in authority with no questions asked? Well, I'm asking that question.

If a cop has acted badly, people are more than willing to condemn.

backseatLover12

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

backseatLover12 said:

PJ_Soul said:

I think he means the life of the person not being threatening and crazy, and instead trying to protect the public, wins, if one must die.

Ok, I see what you mean. But what if, in turn, it's the cop that's being threatening and crazy. I feel that notion is never discussed, almost as if it's voodoo to even discuss that the police may be the bad guys in some situations. But we now know they can be. So who's life is more valuable? Why is it, we support those in authority with no questions asked? Well, I'm asking that question.

If a cop has acted badly, people are more than willing to condemn.

Unless the cop is wrong. Which is exactly what's been happening lately.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

backseatLover12 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

backseatLover12 said:

PJ_Soul said:

I think he means the life of the person not being threatening and crazy, and instead trying to protect the public, wins, if one must die.

Ok, I see what you mean. But what if, in turn, it's the cop that's being threatening and crazy. I feel that notion is never discussed, almost as if it's voodoo to even discuss that the police may be the bad guys in some situations. But we now know they can be. So who's life is more valuable? Why is it, we support those in authority with no questions asked? Well, I'm asking that question.

If a cop has acted badly, people are more than willing to condemn.

Unless the cop is wrong. Which is exactly what's been happening lately.

I'm not sure what you mean by this?

PJ_Soul

Me neither.... Do you mean that you think people are leaping to the defense of guilty cops? ... I would agree if you're talking about other cops, the justice system, etc. But definitely not if you mean the general public.

backseatLover12

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

backseatLover12 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

backseatLover12 said:

PJ_Soul said:

I think he means the life of the person not being threatening and crazy, and instead trying to protect the public, wins, if one must die.

Ok, I see what you mean. But what if, in turn, it's the cop that's being threatening and crazy. I feel that notion is never discussed, almost as if it's voodoo to even discuss that the police may be the bad guys in some situations. But we now know they can be. So who's life is more valuable? Why is it, we support those in authority with no questions asked? Well, I'm asking that question.

If a cop has acted badly, people are more than willing to condemn.

Unless the cop is wrong. Which is exactly what's been happening lately.

I'm not sure what you mean by this?

Sorry, misunderstood your post initially.

But the public is not entirely up in arms about the poor actions on behalf of the cops lately. Still many defend their actions regardless.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

backseatLover12 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

backseatLover12 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

backseatLover12 said:

PJ_Soul said:

I think he means the life of the person not being threatening and crazy, and instead trying to protect the public, wins, if one must die.

Ok, I see what you mean. But what if, in turn, it's the cop that's being threatening and crazy. I feel that notion is never discussed, almost as if it's voodoo to even discuss that the police may be the bad guys in some situations. But we now know they can be. So who's life is more valuable? Why is it, we support those in authority with no questions asked? Well, I'm asking that question.

If a cop has acted badly, people are more than willing to condemn.

Unless the cop is wrong. Which is exactly what's been happening lately.

I'm not sure what you mean by this?

Sorry, misunderstood your post initially.

But the public is not entirely up in arms about the poor actions on behalf of the cops lately. Still many defend their actions regardless.

It depends on which case you refer to.

If you are referring to the Brown case, the public was incensed... but wrongly so. If you are referring to the Rice case... I hear you. This has been expressed before: the anti-establishment people would have fared very well rallying around Tamir Rice instead of Brown.

The other case that makes me seethe is the Kelly Thomas case. Hearing him cry out for his father as he was getting assaulted by those asshole cops choked me up. Those cops can suffer in Hell for all I care.

Backseat... there are simply way too many good cops that provide an outstanding service while placing their lives on the line for us to condemn them with blanket statements. When one defends themselves against some dickhead trying to assault them... I'm on their side. Period. When one acts out of line and abuses their position of power... I am not.

I think I speak for many when I say such (probably even the ones you listed earlier).

muskydan

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

backseatLover12 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

lesson: listen to the cops. it's really just that simple.

I now realize that was just a small fraction of cops, and most are good.

Ya know, I do listen when I get pulled over. It's just a duh move to not to. But I feel that aside from the rest of your post that I didn't quote (but which I appreciate), all the other police supporters here don't ever comment on the topic of police respecting the people they are paid to protect, black or white. I don't feel you guys ever address the NEED to kill, shoot for the chest, and not the shoulder or leg. Where is the backup argument for this. You, Hedonist, 30 bills, Musky, LastExit, etc. I'm talking to you. All you guys do is flat out support with no justification for KILLING another human, when it is supposed to be a last resort. For the sake of humanity, where is your conscience? Do you honestly feel we should obey or else death becomes us, because we dare to question the police?

You reach for a cop's gun, when there are 4 cops and one of you? Death should not be in that equation. The fact that 4 grown men can't handle that scene without killing another man makes the police look BAD. And we are supposed to trust police when they go back and tell their supervisors that THEIR lives were in danger? If there are no witnesses, we are to blankly assume they're telling the truth? That is what's happening and it in no way justifies the death of another human being.

The NEED has been definitively detailed over and over again: in a life and death situation, a cop is trained to put down his assailant decisively- not 'inch up' to the level necessary or take a 'wait and see' tactic. If an assailant reaches for a cop's gun, the officers there fail to disarm them, and a cop or civilian is killed... that's a problem. This is not hard to understand.

The burden of responsibility in the 'bad guy assaults police officer and gets shot' cases lies with the assailant. Don't blame the cop for defending themselves.

Cop abuse is inexcusable. Cop self-defense is excusable.

Bingo….I concur with everything said here from thirty, other than I would replace Cop self-defense is Excusable with EXPECTED.

Let me just share this. After a combination of 15 interviews, aptitude tests, physical tests, psyche tests, drug tests, interviews w/ family and friends, and a Full FBI background check I was asked during my final interview in front of a police board one simple question. And if you hesitate answering this question with a immediate YES you will be escorted off the premises. So here is the question…..Can you KILL another human being who is a threat to your life or another's life?? Think about that for a second…….Can you do it?????
Well if you think about it for more than a second you are DEAD. As much as some of you will hate hearing that, its a trait that is a absolute in Law enforcement and absolutely necessary.

I will answer Backseats last question with……..YES, my life is more important than anyone who is trying to kill me or another….

hedonist

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

It depends on which case you refer to.

If you are referring to the Brown case, the public was incensed... but wrongly so. If you are referring to the Rice case... I hear you. This has been expressed before: the anti-establishment people would have fared very well rallying around Tamir Rice instead of Brown.

The other case that makes me seethe is the Kelly Thomas case. Hearing him cry out for his father as he was getting assaulted by those asshole cops choked me up. Those cops can suffer in Hell for all I care.

Backseat... there are simply way too many good cops that provide an outstanding service while placing their lives on the line for us to condemn them with blanket statements. When one defends themselves against some dickhead trying to assault them... I'm on their side. Period. When one acts out of line and abuses their position of power... I am not.

I think I speak for many when I say such (probably even the ones you listed earlier).

Thirty, you covered it pretty well. Thank you.

Indifference71

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

backseatLover12 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

backseatLover12 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

backseatLover12 said:

PJ_Soul said:

I think he means the life of the person not being threatening and crazy, and instead trying to protect the public, wins, if one must die.

Ok, I see what you mean. But what if, in turn, it's the cop that's being threatening and crazy. I feel that notion is never discussed, almost as if it's voodoo to even discuss that the police may be the bad guys in some situations. But we now know they can be. So who's life is more valuable? Why is it, we support those in authority with no questions asked? Well, I'm asking that question.

If a cop has acted badly, people are more than willing to condemn.

Unless the cop is wrong. Which is exactly what's been happening lately.

I'm not sure what you mean by this?

Sorry, misunderstood your post initially.

But the public is not entirely up in arms about the poor actions on behalf of the cops lately. Still many defend their actions regardless.

Backseat... there are simply way too many good cops that provide an outstanding service while placing their lives on the line for us to condemn them with blanket statements. When one defends themselves against some dickhead trying to assault them... I'm on their side. Period. When one acts out of line and abuses their position of power... I am not.

.

This is stated perfectly. I couldn't agree more.

jeffbr

backseatLover12 said:

All you guys do is flat out support with no justification for KILLING another human, when it is supposed to be a last resort. For the sake of humanity, where is your conscience? Do you honestly feel we should obey or else death becomes us, because we dare to question the police?

I don't support cops killing people for arguing. I do justify cops shooting people who are putting others in imminent danger. Cops shoot to STOP not shoot to kill. The way you shoot to stop is to aim for center mass. Death is often the unfortunate outcome. But it is an outcome directly caused by the suspect escalating it to that point. You want to excuse criminals for their unlawful behavior and handcuff cops who are trying to protect themselves and others.

And to explicitly answer you latest query, I don't value all life the same, and I think that a scumbag, anti-social, criminals life is less valuable than mine or than the people protecting mine.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

hedonist said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

It depends on which case you refer to.

If you are referring to the Brown case, the public was incensed... but wrongly so. If you are referring to the Rice case... I hear you. This has been expressed before: the anti-establishment people would have fared very well rallying around Tamir Rice instead of Brown.

The other case that makes me seethe is the Kelly Thomas case. Hearing him cry out for his father as he was getting assaulted by those asshole cops choked me up. Those cops can suffer in Hell for all I care.

Backseat... there are simply way too many good cops that provide an outstanding service while placing their lives on the line for us to condemn them with blanket statements. When one defends themselves against some dickhead trying to assault them... I'm on their side. Period. When one acts out of line and abuses their position of power... I am not.

I think I speak for many when I say such (probably even the ones you listed earlier).

Thirty, you covered it pretty well. Thank you.

Cheers.

* People's Court. Too funny. Don't mess with judge Judy.

rgambs

Over and over and over and over I hear "reach for the cops gun"...rarely with any evidence beyond the word of the cop.

Aren't any of you concerned that cops can just lie and say "he reached for my gun" after they shoot someone unjustly by mistake?...and there is no eevidence but words, but that is enough for everyone to move on, even if it happens over and over in a cops career.
It's insane. It's the get out of jail free card for cops.

hedonist

gambs, the recent incident out here showed the person was indeed reaching for the officer's weapon.

And...absolutely not a fan of lying. I don't excuse the police doing so any more than I do for those not on the force.

backseatLover12

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

backseatLover12 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

backseatLover12 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

backseatLover12 said:

PJ_Soul said:

I think he means the life of the person not being threatening and crazy, and instead trying to protect the public, wins, if one must die.

Ok, I see what you mean. But what if, in turn, it's the cop that's being threatening and crazy. I feel that notion is never discussed, almost as if it's voodoo to even discuss that the police may be the bad guys in some situations. But we now know they can be. So who's life is more valuable? Why is it, we support those in authority with no questions asked? Well, I'm asking that question.

If a cop has acted badly, people are more than willing to condemn.

Unless the cop is wrong. Which is exactly what's been happening lately.

I'm not sure what you mean by this?

Sorry, misunderstood your post initially.

But the public is not entirely up in arms about the poor actions on behalf of the cops lately. Still many defend their actions regardless.

It depends on which case you refer to.

If you are referring to the Brown case, the public was incensed... but wrongly so. If you are referring to the Rice case... I hear you. This has been expressed before: the anti-establishment people would have fared very well rallying around Tamir Rice instead of Brown.

The other case that makes me seethe is the Kelly Thomas case. Hearing him cry out for his father as he was getting assaulted by those asshole cops choked me up. Those cops can suffer in Hell for all I care.

Backseat... there are simply way too many good cops that provide an outstanding service while placing their lives on the line for us to condemn them with blanket statements. When one defends themselves against some dickhead trying to assault them... I'm on their side. Period. When one acts out of line and abuses their position of power... I am not.

I think I speak for many when I say such (probably even the ones you listed earlier).

I think you should stop speaking for many, as the "many" tend to sheepishly piggyback your quotes with an "I agree" rather than speaking for themselves (you know who you are).

Again, looking at the problem optimistically rather than taking ALL of the stories that have been released in the last 10 months alone for what they're worth (many police brutality cases), is pretty much not looking realistic at the problem. It's denying that there is a major problem in this country with minorities and the Police. You may not be living in denial, but others are very much so.

backseatLover12

rgambs said:

Over and over and over and over I hear "reach for the cops gun"...rarely with any evidence beyond the word of the cop.

Aren't any of you concerned that cops can just lie and say "he reached for my gun" after they shoot someone unjustly by mistake?...and there is no eevidence but words, but that is enough for everyone to move on, even if it happens over and over in a cops career.
It's insane. It's the get out of jail free card for cops.

And what cop doesn't want a Get out of Jail Free Card?

hedonist

Oh for the love of Pete. I speak for myself - and my goodness gracious! - will acknowledge those who better articulate my thoughts at the moment.

Let's leave the personal shots at the door, yeah?

backseatLover12

jeffbr said:

backseatLover12 said:

All you guys do is flat out support with no justification for KILLING another human, when it is supposed to be a last resort. For the sake of humanity, where is your conscience? Do you honestly feel we should obey or else death becomes us, because we dare to question the police?

I don't support cops killing people for arguing. I do justify cops shooting people who are putting others in imminent danger. Cops shoot to STOP not shoot to kill. The way you shoot to stop is to aim for center mass. Death is often the unfortunate outcome. But it is an outcome directly caused by the suspect escalating it to that point. You want to excuse criminals for their unlawful behavior and handcuff cops who are trying to protect themselves and others.

And to explicitly answer you latest query, I don't value all life the same, and I think that a scumbag, anti-social, criminals life is less valuable than mine or than the people protecting mine.

Cops aiming for the center mass is NOT shooting to stop, and you know it. Shooting for center mass is aiming for the heart. You're doing nothing but making excuses for murder. I can see what that says about your conscience.

And sometimes that scumbag, anti-social criminal grows up to enter the police academy to become a cop.

backseatLover12

hedonist said:

Oh for the love of Pete. I speak for myself - and my goodness gracious! - will acknowledge those who better articulate my thoughts at the moment.

Let's leave the personal shots at the door, yeah?

Then actually speak for yourself, then, dammit! If all you can do is piggy back, you add not much to the conversation. I asked you a question and you told me to look up your posts. That's the worse cop out ever.