"I don't know if the president loves the United States..."

brianlux

rr165892 said:

brianlux said:

rr165892 said:

I couldn't disagree more with BSLs bleak take on life in America.
Where apparently there is no path to success by working hard and all cops are non human Nazi thugs.The only path to higher learning is with crippling debt,And there are no jobs that pay a living wage.You say the Rich don't want to pay their fare share of taxes while pining for Deeper entitlements.Arent you complaining you have to pay aTON for healthcare while simultaneously wanting others to cover the bill?
BSL,You say you are forced to eat constantly with huge portions because food is everywhere you look , you have to be wary of non whites.Arent these internal personal choices?Where does ones self responsibility come into play.
I can tell you this,You can still do anything you want in this country.Anything.
If you want it bad enough a person can rise above all that crap and find a good life.For those that want it and are willing to work hard can find good jobs and seek creative ways to further their learning and education.Land of oppurtunity.Sorry you can't see it.
The big problem really is that not enough people want to put in the sweat equity to better themselves on their own.Too many expect a hand out,And rely on it instead of blazing their own trail.Always blaming others,religion,government,the rich,etc for what's wrong with their view of the world.

Re the bolded above, rr, I so wish that were true. It's like the old Horacio Alger stories. Yeah, sometimes, with a lot of hard work, and some good breaks, these stories come true. Of course it's so much easier if you are white and male. The truth is (and I think you know this is true) for a LOT of people in this country, the odds are stacked against them hugely. I'd bet anything those stories were made up to make us white guys feel OK about our good fortune.

So it's ok not to try? Use
Except failure based on the cards you were dealt? Use it as an excuse? No Brian.I won't buy that.I refuse to believe in this day in age that anyone would think they can't succeed in life.
Sure some have a tougher road then others,but crushing the dreams of bettering ones situation should never be a thought.
I get the perspective thing and agree with the thought that it can be an easier path some and not others.but still not an excuse to not try to improve ones situation.
I believe the modern day poet Edward Vedder said" He won the lottery by being born".

We may differ somewhat on this issue, rr, but I do agree we should try. I was dealt a big blow when my ears got trashed and it was a hard struggle to get back out of the ditch. But shoot, man, I'm mail, white and stubborn! But yeah, that's why I like Henry Rollins line: "Hack or pack" (but I also think H. R. would get my drift too.)

BS44325 said:

Ha. On the Net Neutrality thread both BSL and Lux called me the miserable one...never positive. Who's the wet-blanket now!

Whoa, wait! Show me where I said you were miserable and never positive! Yes, I did say you exaggerate (actually I think the word I used was "hyperbole") but "miserable" and "never positive"? Nate mon!

rr165892

Last-12-Exit said:

Edward vedder. That sounds corny

Listening to some of that uke stuff(not my fav) I agree.

rr165892

hedonist said:

rr165892 said:

So it's ok not to try? Use
Except failure based on the cards you were dealt? Use it as an excuse? No Brian.I won't buy that.I refuse to believe in this day in age that anyone would think they can't succeed in life.
Sure some have a tougher road then others,but crushing the dreams of bettering ones situation should never be a thought.
I get the perspective thing and agree with the thought that it can be an easier path some and not others.but still not an excuse to not try to improve ones situation.
I believe the modern day poet Edward Vedder said" He won the lottery by being born".

With you on the gist of this, friend.

How could we not bestow those values on our up and coming youth and young adults?

backseatLover12

rr165892 said:

I couldn't disagree more with BSLs bleak take on life in America.
Where apparently there is no path to success by working hard and all cops are non human Nazi thugs.The only path to higher learning is with crippling debt,And there are no jobs that pay a living wage.You say the Rich don't want to pay their fare share of taxes while pining for Deeper entitlements.Arent you complaining you have to pay aTON for healthcare while simultaneously wanting others to cover the bill?
BSL,You say you are forced to eat constantly with huge portions because food is everywhere you look , you have to be wary of non whites.Arent these internal personal choices?Where does ones self responsibility come into play.
I can tell you this,You can still do anything you want in this country.Anything.
If you want it bad enough a person can rise above all that crap and find a good life.For those that want it and are willing to work hard can find good jobs and seek creative ways to further their learning and education.Land of oppurtunity.Sorry you can't see it.
The big problem really is that not enough people want to put in the sweat equity to better themselves on their own.Too many expect a hand out,And rely on it instead of blazing their own trail.Always blaming others,religion,government,the rich,etc for what's wrong with their view of the world.

Try going to college and actually affording it. "Creative ways?" Tell me, oh Wise One. Prove to me that all I've said is not true. Not squirm around the truths, but actually that any one of the points I've made are false. You can't. I made the point about self-control, we agree on this. Other than that, the attitude about handouts, land of opportunities, blazing own trails? How about looking at the country for as it is, the statistics, the big picture and an objective perspective without blaming an entire class of people. Like I said, denial.

backseatLover12

rr165892 said:

I couldn't disagree more with BSLs bleak take on life in America.

My "bleak take" on life in America. Listen, I know that when you are immersed waist-deep in anything, your perspective on the world is only the details. I know that looking objectively at this country is nearly impossible for many people because they are so deeply held to their "patriotism" and loyalty. But, hey, truth telling doesn't get me many friends, but it gets me the right ones. I'm thankful that I can look objectively at this country while actually immersed in society. I still haven't heard anyone prove me wrong on any of my points in my posts. It's not my opinion, it's actually what's going on. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me that things are just as good here in America as they were back in the 90s, pre-9/11, pre-GWB administration and that nothing has changed. I'm waiting for someone to prove me wrong that the increasing gun culture has made this country worse for the taking.

backseatLover12

BS44325 said:

Ha. On the Net Neutrality thread both BSL and Lux called me the miserable one...never positive. Who's the wet-blanket now!

Ahem, net neutrality was a big win against corporations, you chose to be a wet mop about that win. I'm stating facts about American society, sure it sounds bleak, because it is. My perspective on how to live is far from cynical, but bring up truths that folks don't want to hear because it breaks their delusions about the world and people can't help but get reactionary. Reality's a bitch.

rr165892

It sounds to me BSL that you feel life is punching you in the gut.Im sorry to hear that you have a path filled with obstacles.Im assuming of course that your POV is what forms your outlook.Im not trying to jump to conclusions,and if I'm wrong I Apologize in advance.

First off College can be FREE for those willing to give service to their country.Its called the GI bill.you may not like that path but it exists.Also Many non brick and mortar campuses exist that are quite affordable without running up debt.Many states like mine have converted all Junior colleges into 4 year institutions with expanded fields of learning and paths to a 4 year degree.These colleges are very inexpensive and available to all members of our community and state.At very little cost.
For some traditional college isn't the only way.Many industries subsidies education costs and provide training in many areas that can be parlay into very good paying jobs.(Catapiller is a great example)
I don't squirm around any truths and I'm no hypocrite.I practice what I preach.When I see my country I in no way come up with the same horrible view.Perspective?Maybe.

callen

There are great and not great things about our country.

BSL points out some really crappy ones but they are very valid.

Being able to view world through others eyes or attempting to is great quality. Many just do not have ability or interest in doing so.

I know I'm a lucky mofo for being a white male. I recognize this every day.

Supreme Court deciding fate of healthcare for masses today. That is sooooooo fucked up.
Course no Supreme Court debate on war spending. That's just small part of American hypocrisy.

But Goddamn I'm stoked at fun I'll have this weekend that I couldn't do in any other countries.

Ying yang.

callen

rr165892 said:

It sounds to me BSL that you feel life is punching you in the gut.Im sorry to hear that you have a path filled with obstacles.Im assuming of course that your POV is what forms your outlook.Im not trying to jump to conclusions,and if I'm wrong I Apologize in advance.

First off College can be FREE for those willing to give service to their country.Its called the GI bill.you may not like that path but it exists.Also Many non brick and mortar campuses exist that are quite affordable without running up debt.Many states like mine have converted all Junior colleges into 4 year institutions with expanded fields of learning and paths to a 4 year degree.These colleges are very inexpensive and available to all members of our community and state.At very little cost.
For some traditional college isn't the only way.Many industries subsidies education costs and provide training in many areas that can be parlay into very good paying jobs.(Catapiller is a great example)
I don't squirm around any truths and I'm no hypocrite.I practice what I preach.When I see my country I in no way come up with the same horrible view.Perspective?Maybe.

Sacrifice your poor ass in wars for rich to get college funding. Woo hoo what a deal. Agree if one is smart and tries they can get secondary school for less money but top companies only hire from good colleges so most poor kids will never have a chance. Oh oh they can fight , that's right.

brianlux

rr165892 said:

It sounds to me BSL that you feel life is punching you in the gut.Im sorry to hear that you have a path filled with obstacles.Im assuming of course that your POV is what forms your outlook.Im not trying to jump to conclusions,and if I'm wrong I Apologize in advance.

First off College can be FREE for those willing to give service to their country.Its called the GI bill.you may not like that path but it exists.Also Many non brick and mortar campuses exist that are quite affordable without running up debt.Many states like mine have converted all Junior colleges into 4 year institutions with expanded fields of learning and paths to a 4 year degree.These colleges are very inexpensive and available to all members of our community and state.At very little cost.
For some traditional college isn't the only way.Many industries subsidies education costs and provide training in many areas that can be parlay into very good paying jobs.(Catapiller is a great example)
I don't squirm around any truths and I'm no hypocrite.I practice what I preach.When I see my country I in no way come up with the same horrible view.Perspective?Maybe.

Good empathy there at the top, rr. I mean that- no sarcasm intended.

The route you suggest has worked well for others but can be disastrous as well. For example, young men (such as one I know very well) who signed up just before the Iraq war (and you never know when a bogus war will commence) and served two or three tours of duty and came back physically and/or mentally screwed for life. Yes, the man I know is taking advantage of getting some college and will do him well but how do you erase the psychological collateral damage? I've seen the effects. It's not pretty. It's not patriotic. It sucks big time.

But yes, there are other routes and I've encouraged all of my extended family kids (mostly males, all white) to go take advantage of them and I'm glad they are there.

But how do you address our squandering of our resources, outsourcing jobs to slave labor overseas, our not signing the Kyoto Protocol, our propensity for eating garbage and trashing our bodies as a result, our invasive, imperialistic aggression in other parts of the world, our insisting on continuing our oil dependence instead of developing alternatives, our ban on growing hemp... to name a few of the many ways we squander our potential. That's the key to me. We have so much potential but instead we choose to be a cheese doodle ingesting, aggressive, anti-progressive, anti-intellectual, mindless entertainment consuming people.... when we could be so much more!

BS44325

brianlux said:

rr165892 said:

It sounds to me BSL that you feel life is punching you in the gut.Im sorry to hear that you have a path filled with obstacles.Im assuming of course that your POV is what forms your outlook.Im not trying to jump to conclusions,and if I'm wrong I Apologize in advance.

First off College can be FREE for those willing to give service to their country.Its called the GI bill.you may not like that path but it exists.Also Many non brick and mortar campuses exist that are quite affordable without running up debt.Many states like mine have converted all Junior colleges into 4 year institutions with expanded fields of learning and paths to a 4 year degree.These colleges are very inexpensive and available to all members of our community and state.At very little cost.
For some traditional college isn't the only way.Many industries subsidies education costs and provide training in many areas that can be parlay into very good paying jobs.(Catapiller is a great example)
I don't squirm around any truths and I'm no hypocrite.I practice what I preach.When I see my country I in no way come up with the same horrible view.Perspective?Maybe.

We have so much potential but instead we choose to be a cheese doodle ingesting, aggressive, anti-progressive, anti-intellectual, mindless entertainment consuming people.... when we could be so much more!

The freedom to choose. That is why America is great.

callen

Choices. Ha. Well the decision is predetermined by information previously absorbed by the brain.

Participating in dialog with humans that have views different than your own can change one predetermined choices.

Great board this is. And those that participate have courage.

rr165892

brianlux said:

rr165892 said:

It sounds to me BSL that you feel life is punching you in the gut.Im sorry to hear that you have a path filled with obstacles.Im assuming of course that your POV is what forms your outlook.Im not trying to jump to conclusions,and if I'm wrong I Apologize in advance.

First off College can be FREE for those willing to give service to their country.Its called the GI bill.you may not like that path but it exists.Also Many non brick and mortar campuses exist that are quite affordable without running up debt.Many states like mine have converted all Junior colleges into 4 year institutions with expanded fields of learning and paths to a 4 year degree.These colleges are very inexpensive and available to all members of our community and state.At very little cost.
For some traditional college isn't the only way.Many industries subsidies education costs and provide training in many areas that can be parlay into very good paying jobs.(Catapiller is a great example)
I don't squirm around any truths and I'm no hypocrite.I practice what I preach.When I see my country I in no way come up with the same horrible view.Perspective?Maybe.

Good empathy there at the top, rr. I mean that- no sarcasm intended.

The route you suggest has worked well for others but can be disastrous as well. For example, young men (such as one I know very well) who signed up just before the Iraq war (and you never know when a bogus war will commence) and served two or three tours of duty and came back physically and/or mentally screwed for life. Yes, the man I know is taking advantage of getting some college and will do him well but how do you erase the psychological collateral damage? I've seen the effects. It's not pretty. It's not patriotic. It sucks big time.

But yes, there are other routes and I've encouraged all of my extended family kids (mostly males, all white) to go take advantage of them and I'm glad they are there.

But how do you address our squandering of our resources, outsourcing jobs to slave labor overseas, our not signing the Kyoto Protocol, our propensity for eating garbage and trashing our bodies as a result, our invasive, imperialistic aggression in other parts of the world, our insisting on continuing our oil dependence instead of developing alternatives, our ban on growing hemp... to name a few of the many ways we squander our potential. That's the key to me. We have so much potential but instead we choose to be a cheese doodle ingesting, aggressive, anti-progressive, anti-intellectual, mindless entertainment consuming people.... when we could be so much more!

Thx Bri,No disrespect was meant at all.Im glad you could see that.
You know I'm with you on the garbage food issue.I live that way and believe it is a catalyst to better health which then has a whole range of positive reprocussions.I am totally with you on hemp.What a versatile product.Not much I can do about Foriegn policy but as individuals I think we can push progressive thinking and ground breaking ideas forward and that's exciting.Thats key.Thats how your alternative to oil dependency and renewable resources will be brought to market.By individuals who want to live in a better world.But we have to live it not complain about it.
You know,I watched a show on what really happens to our Garbage.Whats reused,what's buried,what's used as energy.Whats with all the waste?Instead of just feeling over whelmed and bummed about what I saw,we decided to actively be part of making at least our end of the spectrum better.We re though how we used simple things like plastic bags and wrap and what product packaging we were purchasing to reduce our waste footprint.We already used cloth shopping bags,recycle and and try to switch everything to glass or recycled pulp products not plastic.I know it's tiny tiny on the grand scheme but it's a forward movement.Why be upset and angry over issues like this when we can create positive change.

rr165892

callen said:

There are great and not great things about our country.

BSL points out some really crappy ones but they are very valid.

Being able to view world through others eyes or attempting to is great quality. Many just do not have ability or interest in doing so.

I know I'm a lucky mofo for being a white male. I recognize this every day.

Supreme Court deciding fate of healthcare for masses today. That is sooooooo fucked up.
Course no Supreme Court debate on war spending. That's just small part of American hypocrisy.

But Goddamn I'm stoked at fun I'll have this weekend that I couldn't do in any other countries.

Ying yang.

Soooo what are doing this weekend Cal,do share.

backseatLover12

rr165892 said:

It sounds to me BSL that you feel life is punching you in the gut.Im sorry to hear that you have a path filled with obstacles.Im assuming of course that your POV is what forms your outlook.Im not trying to jump to conclusions,and if I'm wrong I Apologize in advance.

First off College can be FREE for those willing to give service to their country.Its called the GI bill.you may not like that path but it exists.Also Many non brick and mortar campuses exist that are quite affordable without running up debt.Many states like mine have converted all Junior colleges into 4 year institutions with expanded fields of learning and paths to a 4 year degree.These colleges are very inexpensive and available to all members of our community and state.At very little cost.
For some traditional college isn't the only way.Many industries subsidies education costs and provide training in many areas that can be parlay into very good paying jobs.(Catapiller is a great example)
I don't squirm around any truths and I'm no hypocrite.I practice what I preach.When I see my country I in no way come up with the same horrible view.Perspective?Maybe.

You can't seem to understand that I am not pointing out my personal life or personal POV. I'm pointing out your country's flaws. *face palm* I'm using the perspective of being objective here.

As for college costs, I know about the GI bill but I'm talking about the nation-wide tuition costs of 4 year colleges. Did you know that going to a Canadian college is cheaper? And these colleges are advertising to American students to entice them. It's because of the unaffordable tuition costs here. Not to insult, but one would have to live under a rock to not know about this problem. Trade jobs, yeah I'm right there with you with the on-the-job training and paying for classes. There needs to be a comeback for trade work that would involve a large number of people.

lolobugg

backseatLover12 said:

rr165892 said:

It sounds to me BSL that you feel life is punching you in the gut.Im sorry to hear that you have a path filled with obstacles.Im assuming of course that your POV is what forms your outlook.Im not trying to jump to conclusions,and if I'm wrong I Apologize in advance.

First off College can be FREE for those willing to give service to their country.Its called the GI bill.you may not like that path but it exists.Also Many non brick and mortar campuses exist that are quite affordable without running up debt.Many states like mine have converted all Junior colleges into 4 year institutions with expanded fields of learning and paths to a 4 year degree.These colleges are very inexpensive and available to all members of our community and state.At very little cost.
For some traditional college isn't the only way.Many industries subsidies education costs and provide training in many areas that can be parlay into very good paying jobs.(Catapiller is a great example)
I don't squirm around any truths and I'm no hypocrite.I practice what I preach.When I see my country I in no way come up with the same horrible view.Perspective?Maybe.

You can't seem to understand that I am not pointing out my personal life or personal POV. I'm pointing out your country's flaws. *face palm* I'm using the perspective of being objective here.

As for college costs, I know about the GI bill but I'm talking about the nation-wide tuition costs of 4 year colleges. Did you know that going to a Canadian college is cheaper? And these colleges are advertising to American students to entice them. It's because of the unaffordable tuition costs here. Not to insult, but one would have to live under a rock to not know about this problem. Trade jobs, yeah I'm right there with you with the on-the-job training and paying for classes. There needs to be a comeback for trade work that would involve a large number of people.

Unfortunately,
most colleges today are no different than a for-profit business.
it's a scam... i agree with teaching people trades they can use in the real world.

Last-12-Exit

Scam is the key word when dealing with anything college related.

rr165892

backseatLover12 said:

rr165892 said:

It sounds to me BSL that you feel life is punching you in the gut.Im sorry to hear that you have a path filled with obstacles.Im assuming of course that your POV is what forms your outlook.Im not trying to jump to conclusions,and if I'm wrong I Apologize in advance.

First off College can be FREE for those willing to give service to their country.Its called the GI bill.you may not like that path but it exists.Also Many non brick and mortar campuses exist that are quite affordable without running up debt.Many states like mine have converted all Junior colleges into 4 year institutions with expanded fields of learning and paths to a 4 year degree.These colleges are very inexpensive and available to all members of our community and state.At very little cost.
For some traditional college isn't the only way.Many industries subsidies education costs and provide training in many areas that can be parlay into very good paying jobs.(Catapiller is a great example)
I don't squirm around any truths and I'm no hypocrite.I practice what I preach.When I see my country I in no way come up with the same horrible view.Perspective?Maybe.

You can't seem to understand that I am not pointing out my personal life or personal POV. I'm pointing out your country's flaws. *face palm* I'm using the perspective of being objective here.

As for college costs, I know about the GI bill but I'm talking about the nation-wide tuition costs of 4 year colleges. Did you know that going to a Canadian college is cheaper? And these colleges are advertising to American students to entice them. It's because of the unaffordable tuition costs here. Not to insult, but one would have to live under a rock to not know about this problem. Trade jobs, yeah I'm right there with you with the on-the-job training and paying for classes. There needs to be a comeback for trade work that would involve a large number of people.

BSL,I know all about College tuition and associated living costs trust me.I am currently paying for 3.at three different fine institutions of higher learning.lol
The issues you bring up are not Foriegn to the rr household.
Lots of things are cheaper in Canada,don't me started on health care.But I think if it makes someone's dreams of college come true if that's their path,then it's a viable alternative to the states.
My thought about how to subsidies post grade 12 education,whether trade based or traditional learning is to exchange education for public service.If young people had a system where they could give of themselves to better our society and in return tuition credits could be issued and used at any institution that receives any federal assistance or subsidies.,I would be all for a bump in my tax load to pay for such a program.Coukd you imagine what we could do with a win/win system.Hell you can expand it to also help With immigration.

backseatLover12

rr165892 said:

backseatLover12 said:

rr165892 said:

It sounds to me BSL that you feel life is punching you in the gut.Im sorry to hear that you have a path filled with obstacles.Im assuming of course that your POV is what forms your outlook.Im not trying to jump to conclusions,and if I'm wrong I Apologize in advance.

First off College can be FREE for those willing to give service to their country.Its called the GI bill.you may not like that path but it exists.Also Many non brick and mortar campuses exist that are quite affordable without running up debt.Many states like mine have converted all Junior colleges into 4 year institutions with expanded fields of learning and paths to a 4 year degree.These colleges are very inexpensive and available to all members of our community and state.At very little cost.
For some traditional college isn't the only way.Many industries subsidies education costs and provide training in many areas that can be parlay into very good paying jobs.(Catapiller is a great example)
I don't squirm around any truths and I'm no hypocrite.I practice what I preach.When I see my country I in no way come up with the same horrible view.Perspective?Maybe.

You can't seem to understand that I am not pointing out my personal life or personal POV. I'm pointing out your country's flaws. *face palm* I'm using the perspective of being objective here.

As for college costs, I know about the GI bill but I'm talking about the nation-wide tuition costs of 4 year colleges. Did you know that going to a Canadian college is cheaper? And these colleges are advertising to American students to entice them. It's because of the unaffordable tuition costs here. Not to insult, but one would have to live under a rock to not know about this problem. Trade jobs, yeah I'm right there with you with the on-the-job training and paying for classes. There needs to be a comeback for trade work that would involve a large number of people.

BSL,I know all about College tuition and associated living costs trust me.I am currently paying for 3.at three different fine institutions of higher learning.lol
The issues you bring up are not Foriegn to the rr household.
Lots of things are cheaper in Canada,don't me started on health care.But I think if it makes someone's dreams of college come true if that's their path,then it's a viable alternative to the states.
My thought about how to subsidies post grade 12 education,whether trade based or traditional learning is to exchange education for public service.If young people had a system where they could give of themselves to better our society and in return tuition credits could be issued and used at any institution that receives any federal assistance or subsidies.,I would be all for a bump in my tax load to pay for such a program.Coukd you imagine what we could do with a win/win system.Hell you can expand it to also help With immigration.

Completely agree with you on that!

backseatLover12