"I don't know if the president loves the United States..."

rr165892

Wtf half my response disappeared and then I tried to edit and it disappeared .huh

backseatLover12

I give Obama a lot of credit. Despite being outright hated by the Republican party, he has still managed to do good things in office. And believe it or not, so did Guilini. He completely changed NYC for the better when he turned the crime rate around. (My god, did just credit not one, but two politicians? F- Me) But the public behavior an is embarrassing for this country.

So…

Tell me. Someone tell me where any of those things I listed were not true. Gimme is right. But that refusal to admit that this country's society has gone to shit? Well, that's called living in DENIAL. Congrats. Living in a bubble, for sure.

And here, I usually can see the positive through all the bad stuff, like above, with what Guiliani did for NYC. But I don't dismiss the TRUTH about our country in order to live behind rose colored glasses. There are some serious issues with this country right now, and they will never get fixed without being acknowledged and then addressed.

Starting with the LOVE FOR GUNS.

rr165892

To finish my last thought.If it's bad or broken,then fix it or change it with actions.Positive,move the line forward kinds of actions.Dont simmer in the bad and complain.When we as a society take the issues before us and try to make them better it shines a bright positive light on the problem and becomes part of the solution instead of adding to the problem.

backseatLover12

rr165892 said:

You can acknowledge the existence of all these issues.We must and it's healthy to do just that.But we don't need to embrace the overwhelming doom and gloom that some feel must accompany these issues.Where is the silver lining in that.
And to Brian's point of course these points are frustrating and mind boggling.But you said it yourself."Getting up in Arms from time to time" is needed.But living under a black blanket with the weight of every issue before us does nothing but cast a darker light on our problems.And that is no way at all to move forward.
Be angry with some of things that are wrong with our imperfect democracy.get mad,protest,educate others(like here

Exactly. Volunteer. Help someone out who needs it. Take care of a pet. Talk to a neighbor.

Just because I brought up many problems does not mean I live cynically. I don't. Action and solutions take work. Not just seeing positively but acknowledging reality and actively working with the truth, not against it, to make a better world. It's not easy, but pretending it's a wonderful country with few problems is not the solution.

rr165892

backseatLover12 said:

rr165892 said:

You can acknowledge the existence of all these issues.We must and it's healthy to do just that.But we don't need to embrace the overwhelming doom and gloom that some feel must accompany these issues.Where is the silver lining in that.
And to Brian's point of course these points are frustrating and mind boggling.But you said it yourself."Getting up in Arms from time to time" is needed.But living under a black blanket with the weight of every issue before us does nothing but cast a darker light on our problems.And that is no way at all to move forward.
Be angry with some of things that are wrong with our imperfect democracy.get mad,protest,educate others(like here

Exactly. Volunteer. Help someone out who needs it. Take care of a pet. Talk to a neighbor.

Just because I brought up many problems does not mean I live cynically. I don't. Action and solutions take work. Not just seeing positively but acknowledging reality and actively working with the truth, not against it, to make a better world. It's not easy, but pretending it's a wonderful country with few problems is not the solution.

Good to hear BSL.But it is /we are a very wonderful country and let that be the guiding force behind the changes and betterment you seek.

rr165892

You can be happy and proud and still be working to right the wrongs around us.I guess it's a disposition thing.

backseatLover12

I can be happy and still be working to right the wrongs, yet I don't have to be proud of what U.S. society has become. Because it's nothing to be proud about. It's embarrassing how low standards have become.

I have to be afraid of the very people working to protect me because I can't trust that police officers are actually protecting and not abusing their power? Police officers are not fellow human beings, but super humans that do no wrong by societal code nor should they have the decency to treat the rest of us with respect? I have to own a gun… for protection? Protection from whom and what? R-E-S-P-E-C-T for each other as fellow humans have become embarrassingly low? I have to go into serious debt to get a college education (which allows me to get a low-paying job after school so I have to pay loans for decades)? Mid-life, I have to get paid lower than a living wage because that's what's become of U.S. jobs? I have to pay for healthcare a TON of money, when several other less-off countries offer their citizens universal healthcare? I have to eat constantly because portions are out of control and food is everywhere I look (and I have no need for self-control)? I watch one of many "news" stations because that's news, even though there is no factual info whatsoever (owned by a total of 6 corporations country-wide). I have to be wary of anyone who's not white because suddenly diversity is a bad thing? It's legal that companies get tax breaks for shipping their businesses overseas, but I should be proud that they're inadvertently killing the U.S. economy and directly affecting jobs here? I should be proud that our representatives that we vote into office choose to spar publicly like children rather than doing what's right for the country and the people? I should be proud that our leaders are choosing to dissipate the middle class because the very rich don't want to have to pay their share in taxes (thanks for that Reagan, and all the successors)? I should be proud that our leaders are seeking to cut social programs such as Social Security and Medicare? (Ugh, hello old white men, that's something you're going to be looking for, very soon). If I choose to bury my head in the sand and believe that climate change is a myth, no, a political tool… then it is? The coastlines in Bali, Indonesia aren't receding and the glaciers aren't melting? DO I NEED TO GO ON?

It's not a disposition thing. It's a denial thing. Acknowledging the downfall of a great nation is difficult. What are we, nostalgic Baby Boomers? Snap out of the denial and you are closer to being free. You've yet to acknowledge anything I've brought up.

So, tell me, or rather list, facts that make this such a wonderful country. I may agree with a lot, but that doesn't negate the bad.

muskydan

backseatLover12 said:

I can be happy and still be working to right the wrongs, yet I don't have to be proud of what U.S. society has become. Because it's nothing to be proud about. It's embarrassing how low standards have become.

I have to be afraid of the very people working to protect me? No, I have to blindly obey that they are above the law in all instances. Police officers are not fellow human beings, but super humans that do no wrong? I have to own a gun… for protection? Protection from whom and what? I have to go into serious debt to get a college education (which allows me to get a low-paying job after school so I have to pay loans for decades)? Mid-life, I have to get paid lower than a living wage because that's what's become of U.S. jobs? I have to pay for healthcare a TON of money, when several other less-off countries offer their citizens universal healthcare? I have to eat constantly because portions are out of control and food is everywhere I look (and I have no need for self-control)? I have to watch one of many "news" stations because that's news, even though there is no factual info whatsoever (owned by a total of 6 corporations country-wide). I have to be wary of anyone who's not white because suddenly diversity is a bad thing? It's legal that companies get tax breaks for shipping their businesses overseas, but I should be proud that they're inadvertently killing the U.S. economy and directly affecting jobs here? I should be proud that our representatives that we vote into office choose to spar publicly like children rather than doing what's right for the country and the people? I should be proud that our leaders are choosing to dissipate the middle class because the very rich don't want to have to pay their share in taxes (thanks for that Reagan, and all the successors)? I should be proud that our leaders are seeking to cut social programs such as Social Security and Medicare? (Ugh, hello old white men, that's something you're going to be looking for, very soon). If I choose to bury my head in the sand and believe that climate change is a myth… then it is? The coastlines in Bali, Indonesia aren't receding and the glaciers aren't melting? DO I NEED TO GO ON?

It's not a disposition thing. It's a denial thing. Acknowledging the downfall of a great nation is difficult. What are we, nostalgic Baby Boomers? Snap out of the denial and you are closer to being free. You've yet to acknowledge anything I've brought up.

So, tell me, or rather list, facts that make this such a wonderful country. I may agree with a lot, but that doesn't negate the bad.

Good God man…. I hope I am never at a party with you. For Fuck's sake lighten up man. Everyday you wake up is a very good day, or it should be.

badbrains

muskydan said:

backseatLover12 said:

I can be happy and still be working to right the wrongs, yet I don't have to be proud of what U.S. society has become. Because it's nothing to be proud about. It's embarrassing how low standards have become.

I have to be afraid of the very people working to protect me? No, I have to blindly obey that they are above the law in all instances. Police officers are not fellow human beings, but super humans that do no wrong? I have to own a gun… for protection? Protection from whom and what? I have to go into serious debt to get a college education (which allows me to get a low-paying job after school so I have to pay loans for decades)? Mid-life, I have to get paid lower than a living wage because that's what's become of U.S. jobs? I have to pay for healthcare a TON of money, when several other less-off countries offer their citizens universal healthcare? I have to eat constantly because portions are out of control and food is everywhere I look (and I have no need for self-control)? I have to watch one of many "news" stations because that's news, even though there is no factual info whatsoever (owned by a total of 6 corporations country-wide). I have to be wary of anyone who's not white because suddenly diversity is a bad thing? It's legal that companies get tax breaks for shipping their businesses overseas, but I should be proud that they're inadvertently killing the U.S. economy and directly affecting jobs here? I should be proud that our representatives that we vote into office choose to spar publicly like children rather than doing what's right for the country and the people? I should be proud that our leaders are choosing to dissipate the middle class because the very rich don't want to have to pay their share in taxes (thanks for that Reagan, and all the successors)? I should be proud that our leaders are seeking to cut social programs such as Social Security and Medicare? (Ugh, hello old white men, that's something you're going to be looking for, very soon). If I choose to bury my head in the sand and believe that climate change is a myth… then it is? The coastlines in Bali, Indonesia aren't receding and the glaciers aren't melting? DO I NEED TO GO ON?

It's not a disposition thing. It's a denial thing. Acknowledging the downfall of a great nation is difficult. What are we, nostalgic Baby Boomers? Snap out of the denial and you are closer to being free. You've yet to acknowledge anything I've brought up.

So, tell me, or rather list, facts that make this such a wonderful country. I may agree with a lot, but that doesn't negate the bad.

Good God man…. I hope I am never at a party with you. For Fuck's sake lighten up man. Everyday you wake up is a very good day, or it should be.

I'm sure the feelings mutual pal.

muskydan

badbrains said:

muskydan said:

backseatLover12 said:

I can be happy and still be working to right the wrongs, yet I don't have to be proud of what U.S. society has become. Because it's nothing to be proud about. It's embarrassing how low standards have become.

I have to be afraid of the very people working to protect me? No, I have to blindly obey that they are above the law in all instances. Police officers are not fellow human beings, but super humans that do no wrong? I have to own a gun… for protection? Protection from whom and what? I have to go into serious debt to get a college education (which allows me to get a low-paying job after school so I have to pay loans for decades)? Mid-life, I have to get paid lower than a living wage because that's what's become of U.S. jobs? I have to pay for healthcare a TON of money, when several other less-off countries offer their citizens universal healthcare? I have to eat constantly because portions are out of control and food is everywhere I look (and I have no need for self-control)? I have to watch one of many "news" stations because that's news, even though there is no factual info whatsoever (owned by a total of 6 corporations country-wide). I have to be wary of anyone who's not white because suddenly diversity is a bad thing? It's legal that companies get tax breaks for shipping their businesses overseas, but I should be proud that they're inadvertently killing the U.S. economy and directly affecting jobs here? I should be proud that our representatives that we vote into office choose to spar publicly like children rather than doing what's right for the country and the people? I should be proud that our leaders are choosing to dissipate the middle class because the very rich don't want to have to pay their share in taxes (thanks for that Reagan, and all the successors)? I should be proud that our leaders are seeking to cut social programs such as Social Security and Medicare? (Ugh, hello old white men, that's something you're going to be looking for, very soon). If I choose to bury my head in the sand and believe that climate change is a myth… then it is? The coastlines in Bali, Indonesia aren't receding and the glaciers aren't melting? DO I NEED TO GO ON?

It's not a disposition thing. It's a denial thing. Acknowledging the downfall of a great nation is difficult. What are we, nostalgic Baby Boomers? Snap out of the denial and you are closer to being free. You've yet to acknowledge anything I've brought up.

So, tell me, or rather list, facts that make this such a wonderful country. I may agree with a lot, but that doesn't negate the bad.

Good God man…. I hope I am never at a party with you. For Fuck's sake lighten up man. Everyday you wake up is a very good day, or it should be.

I'm sure the feelings mutual pal.

Tru dat Kid, but I sure hope to tip a few with your pleasant self at Alive one.

badbrains

muskydan said:

badbrains said:

muskydan said:

backseatLover12 said:

I can be happy and still be working to right the wrongs, yet I don't have to be proud of what U.S. society has become. Because it's nothing to be proud about. It's embarrassing how low standards have become.

I have to be afraid of the very people working to protect me? No, I have to blindly obey that they are above the law in all instances. Police officers are not fellow human beings, but super humans that do no wrong? I have to own a gun… for protection? Protection from whom and what? I have to go into serious debt to get a college education (which allows me to get a low-paying job after school so I have to pay loans for decades)? Mid-life, I have to get paid lower than a living wage because that's what's become of U.S. jobs? I have to pay for healthcare a TON of money, when several other less-off countries offer their citizens universal healthcare? I have to eat constantly because portions are out of control and food is everywhere I look (and I have no need for self-control)? I have to watch one of many "news" stations because that's news, even though there is no factual info whatsoever (owned by a total of 6 corporations country-wide). I have to be wary of anyone who's not white because suddenly diversity is a bad thing? It's legal that companies get tax breaks for shipping their businesses overseas, but I should be proud that they're inadvertently killing the U.S. economy and directly affecting jobs here? I should be proud that our representatives that we vote into office choose to spar publicly like children rather than doing what's right for the country and the people? I should be proud that our leaders are choosing to dissipate the middle class because the very rich don't want to have to pay their share in taxes (thanks for that Reagan, and all the successors)? I should be proud that our leaders are seeking to cut social programs such as Social Security and Medicare? (Ugh, hello old white men, that's something you're going to be looking for, very soon). If I choose to bury my head in the sand and believe that climate change is a myth… then it is? The coastlines in Bali, Indonesia aren't receding and the glaciers aren't melting? DO I NEED TO GO ON?

It's not a disposition thing. It's a denial thing. Acknowledging the downfall of a great nation is difficult. What are we, nostalgic Baby Boomers? Snap out of the denial and you are closer to being free. You've yet to acknowledge anything I've brought up.

So, tell me, or rather list, facts that make this such a wonderful country. I may agree with a lot, but that doesn't negate the bad.

Good God man…. I hope I am never at a party with you. For Fuck's sake lighten up man. Everyday you wake up is a very good day, or it should be.

I'm sure the feelings mutual pal.

Tru dat Kid, but I sure hope to tip a few with your pleasant self at Alive one.

You should be so honored.

brianlux

muskydan said:

backseatLover12 said:

I can be happy and still be working to right the wrongs, yet I don't have to be proud of what U.S. society has become. Because it's nothing to be proud about. It's embarrassing how low standards have become.

I have to be afraid of the very people working to protect me? No, I have to blindly obey that they are above the law in all instances. Police officers are not fellow human beings, but super humans that do no wrong? I have to own a gun… for protection? Protection from whom and what? I have to go into serious debt to get a college education (which allows me to get a low-paying job after school so I have to pay loans for decades)? Mid-life, I have to get paid lower than a living wage because that's what's become of U.S. jobs? I have to pay for healthcare a TON of money, when several other less-off countries offer their citizens universal healthcare? I have to eat constantly because portions are out of control and food is everywhere I look (and I have no need for self-control)? I have to watch one of many "news" stations because that's news, even though there is no factual info whatsoever (owned by a total of 6 corporations country-wide). I have to be wary of anyone who's not white because suddenly diversity is a bad thing? It's legal that companies get tax breaks for shipping their businesses overseas, but I should be proud that they're inadvertently killing the U.S. economy and directly affecting jobs here? I should be proud that our representatives that we vote into office choose to spar publicly like children rather than doing what's right for the country and the people? I should be proud that our leaders are choosing to dissipate the middle class because the very rich don't want to have to pay their share in taxes (thanks for that Reagan, and all the successors)? I should be proud that our leaders are seeking to cut social programs such as Social Security and Medicare? (Ugh, hello old white men, that's something you're going to be looking for, very soon). If I choose to bury my head in the sand and believe that climate change is a myth… then it is? The coastlines in Bali, Indonesia aren't receding and the glaciers aren't melting? DO I NEED TO GO ON?

It's not a disposition thing. It's a denial thing. Acknowledging the downfall of a great nation is difficult. What are we, nostalgic Baby Boomers? Snap out of the denial and you are closer to being free. You've yet to acknowledge anything I've brought up.

So, tell me, or rather list, facts that make this such a wonderful country. I may agree with a lot, but that doesn't negate the bad.

Good God man…. I hope I am never at a party with you. For Fuck's sake lighten up man. Everyday you wake up is a very good day, or it should be.

Too bad man, I would love to party with bsl12. And I'll tell you this (and I know it to be true) this person has a heart made of gold that's as big as the moon. Don't be too quick to judge.

oftenreading

Something made of gold, but as big as the moon - quick, someone who's good at math figure out how heavy that would be. This is why we need science.

TalonTedd

oftenreading said:

Something made of gold, but as big as the moon - quick, someone who's good at math figure out how heavy that would be. This is why we need science.

Ah I got it.....ball breaking heavy!

rr165892

I couldn't disagree more with BSLs bleak take on life in America.
Where apparently there is no path to success by working hard and all cops are non human Nazi thugs.The only path to higher learning is with crippling debt,And there are no jobs that pay a living wage.You say the Rich don't want to pay their fare share of taxes while pining for Deeper entitlements.Arent you complaining you have to pay aTON for healthcare while simultaneously wanting others to cover the bill?
BSL,You say you are forced to eat constantly with huge portions because food is everywhere you look , you have to be wary of non whites.Arent these internal personal choices?Where does ones self responsibility come into play.
I can tell you this,You can still do anything you want in this country.Anything.
If you want it bad enough a person can rise above all that crap and find a good life.For those that want it and are willing to work hard can find good jobs and seek creative ways to further their learning and education.Land of oppurtunity.Sorry you can't see it.
The big problem really is that not enough people want to put in the sweat equity to better themselves on their own.Too many expect a hand out,And rely on it instead of blazing their own trail.Always blaming others,religion,government,the rich,etc for what's wrong with their view of the world.

brianlux

rr165892 said:

I couldn't disagree more with BSLs bleak take on life in America.
Where apparently there is no path to success by working hard and all cops are non human Nazi thugs.The only path to higher learning is with crippling debt,And there are no jobs that pay a living wage.You say the Rich don't want to pay their fare share of taxes while pining for Deeper entitlements.Arent you complaining you have to pay aTON for healthcare while simultaneously wanting others to cover the bill?
BSL,You say you are forced to eat constantly with huge portions because food is everywhere you look , you have to be wary of non whites.Arent these internal personal choices?Where does ones self responsibility come into play.
I can tell you this,You can still do anything you want in this country.Anything.
If you want it bad enough a person can rise above all that crap and find a good life.For those that want it and are willing to work hard can find good jobs and seek creative ways to further their learning and education.Land of oppurtunity.Sorry you can't see it.
The big problem really is that not enough people want to put in the sweat equity to better themselves on their own.Too many expect a hand out,And rely on it instead of blazing their own trail.Always blaming others,religion,government,the rich,etc for what's wrong with their view of the world.

Re the bolded above, rr, I so wish that were true. It's like the old Horacio Alger stories. Yeah, sometimes, with a lot of hard work, and some good breaks, these stories come true. Of course it's so much easier if you are white and male. The truth is (and I think you know this is true) for a LOT of people in this country, the odds are stacked against them hugely. I'd bet anything those stories were made up to make us white guys feel OK about our good fortune.

rr165892

brianlux said:

rr165892 said:

I couldn't disagree more with BSLs bleak take on life in America.
Where apparently there is no path to success by working hard and all cops are non human Nazi thugs.The only path to higher learning is with crippling debt,And there are no jobs that pay a living wage.You say the Rich don't want to pay their fare share of taxes while pining for Deeper entitlements.Arent you complaining you have to pay aTON for healthcare while simultaneously wanting others to cover the bill?
BSL,You say you are forced to eat constantly with huge portions because food is everywhere you look , you have to be wary of non whites.Arent these internal personal choices?Where does ones self responsibility come into play.
I can tell you this,You can still do anything you want in this country.Anything.
If you want it bad enough a person can rise above all that crap and find a good life.For those that want it and are willing to work hard can find good jobs and seek creative ways to further their learning and education.Land of oppurtunity.Sorry you can't see it.
The big problem really is that not enough people want to put in the sweat equity to better themselves on their own.Too many expect a hand out,And rely on it instead of blazing their own trail.Always blaming others,religion,government,the rich,etc for what's wrong with their view of the world.

Re the bolded above, rr, I so wish that were true. It's like the old Horacio Alger stories. Yeah, sometimes, with a lot of hard work, and some good breaks, these stories come true. Of course it's so much easier if you are white and male. The truth is (and I think you know this is true) for a LOT of people in this country, the odds are stacked against them hugely. I'd bet anything those stories were made up to make us white guys feel OK about our good fortune.

So it's ok not to try? Use
Except failure based on the cards you were dealt? Use it as an excuse? No Brian.I won't buy that.I refuse to believe in this day in age that anyone would think they can't succeed in life.
Sure some have a tougher road then others,but crushing the dreams of bettering ones situation should never be a thought.
I get the perspective thing and agree with the thought that it can be an easier path some and not others.but still not an excuse to not try to improve ones situation.
I believe the modern day poet Edward Vedder said" He won the lottery by being born".

BS44325

Ha. On the Net Neutrality thread both BSL and Lux called me the miserable one...never positive. Who's the wet-blanket now!

hedonist

rr165892 said:

So it's ok not to try? Use
Except failure based on the cards you were dealt? Use it as an excuse? No Brian.I won't buy that.I refuse to believe in this day in age that anyone would think they can't succeed in life.
Sure some have a tougher road then others,but crushing the dreams of bettering ones situation should never be a thought.
I get the perspective thing and agree with the thought that it can be an easier path some and not others.but still not an excuse to not try to improve ones situation.
I believe the modern day poet Edward Vedder said" He won the lottery by being born".

With you on the gist of this, friend.

Last-12-Exit

Edward vedder. That sounds corny