"I don't know if the president loves the United States..."

hedonist

callen said:

Reality bites.

Thanks! All these years of living, had no bloody idea.

backseatLover12

hedonist said:

callen said:

badbrains said:

Seems to me that he's the ONLY one in DC doing ANYTHING. And I'm not a huge supporter. But let's be real here, who's been more of a disappointment? The clowns of the GOP or the potus?

Doesn't matter, Obama's a Muslim. Born in Nigeria. Supported by dope smoking pinko liberals and he's black.

This president has done more good for the common American than any president in my lifetime but doesn't matter. Republicans have better funded marketing program exploiting human weaknesses.

This is the kind of response on which I call smelly, unmitigated bullshit.

Not (only) here, but in just sharing ideas and thoughts on this country, how it's run and by whom, any iota of criticism (or, as is always encouraged, "critical" thought) is dismissed to being blind, biased, bigoted.

God forbid true thoughts and paths of communication are attempted.

Fuck that.

I don't know, I have had many legitimate concerns in this thread, begging for someone to prove me wrong or at least help me with that objective perspective of living in the U.S.

rr165892

backseatLover12 said:

hedonist said:

callen said:

badbrains said:

Seems to me that he's the ONLY one in DC doing ANYTHING. And I'm not a huge supporter. But let's be real here, who's been more of a disappointment? The clowns of the GOP or the potus?

Doesn't matter, Obama's a Muslim. Born in Nigeria. Supported by dope smoking pinko liberals and he's black.

This president has done more good for the common American than any president in my lifetime but doesn't matter. Republicans have better funded marketing program exploiting human weaknesses.

This is the kind of response on which I call smelly, unmitigated bullshit.

Not (only) here, but in just sharing ideas and thoughts on this country, how it's run and by whom, any iota of criticism (or, as is always encouraged, "critical" thought) is dismissed to being blind, biased, bigoted.

God forbid true thoughts and paths of communication are attempted.

Fuck that.

I don't know, I have had many legitimate concerns in this thread, begging for someone to prove me wrong or at least help me with that objective perspective of living in the U.S.

It's not a right or wrong as someone else said its how we the individual view it.And how we choose to act based on our circumstances.Im sure the view is a lot different at all ends of the socioeconomic scale,race scale and where we live geographically.
There is always room for improvement on all levels,always work to be done to make life ,ourselves and our country better.

backseatLover12

rr165892 said:

backseatLover12 said:

hedonist said:

callen said:

badbrains said:

Seems to me that he's the ONLY one in DC doing ANYTHING. And I'm not a huge supporter. But let's be real here, who's been more of a disappointment? The clowns of the GOP or the potus?

Doesn't matter, Obama's a Muslim. Born in Nigeria. Supported by dope smoking pinko liberals and he's black.

This president has done more good for the common American than any president in my lifetime but doesn't matter. Republicans have better funded marketing program exploiting human weaknesses.

This is the kind of response on which I call smelly, unmitigated bullshit.

Not (only) here, but in just sharing ideas and thoughts on this country, how it's run and by whom, any iota of criticism (or, as is always encouraged, "critical" thought) is dismissed to being blind, biased, bigoted.

God forbid true thoughts and paths of communication are attempted.

Fuck that.

I don't know, I have had many legitimate concerns in this thread, begging for someone to prove me wrong or at least help me with that objective perspective of living in the U.S.

It's not a right or wrong as someone else said its how we the individual view it.And how we choose to act based on our circumstances.Im sure the view is a lot different at all ends of the socioeconomic scale,race scale and where we live geographically.
There is always room for improvement on all levels,always work to be done to make life ,ourselves and our country better.

Not this again, man. It's an objective big-picture perspective of the big issues going on in this country, not my personal perspective of how I view life.

mrussel1

There are two ways you can love your country (I'm dumbing this down obviously)

1. Mommy love - this is the thought process that your country is perfect and it can do no wrong. The Founding Fathers were infallible and we reached our intellectual zenith in 1791. It's likened to how a young child can find no fault in their mother.

2. Adult love - this is the thought process that, like a marriage, it takes work. We make mistakes and need to mold and shape our country for the future. What was great 100 years ago, isn't great today. So it's great to go on a alcohol fueled week of skiing when you are married for a year and have no kids, but that's frowned upon when your kids need new shoes.

Our country makes mistakes... big ones. Huge ones. Slavery, Indian removal, Japanese Internment camps, Plessy v. Ferguson, Selma, the list goes on and on. You could even debate Hiroshima (let's not right now, but happy to take that one up later). Trying to wash that away or ignore that as part of our history is a monstrous mistake in understanding our country. For those with HS kids, you may know that TX, GA and other states are trying to whitewash many issues from the AP history standards because they don't support American "Exceptionalism"
For the record, I believe in Adult love of the country and am very against changing AP standards.

Regarding Obama's legacy... It's way too early people. Presidential policy results rarely show up immediately. They take time and historical perspective to understand the consequences of policy. The exception is War. That is immediate. Whether you look at LBJ's escalation of Vietnam or Bush's folly in Iraq, those are immediate. But public polices are slow to burn and analyze.

A great example is Clintonian policies of the 90's (with Newt's help). Remember that Gore didn't even campaign with Clinton because he was a pariah on the trail. Now we look back fondly at the economic policies of the 90's and the fabulous era of prosperity and wealth that took place. So it will take another 8 years or more before the book really starts getting written on the age of Obama.

Sorry so long.

backseatLover12

rr165892 said:

backseatLover12 said:

hedonist said:

callen said:

badbrains said:

Seems to me that he's the ONLY one in DC doing ANYTHING. And I'm not a huge supporter. But let's be real here, who's been more of a disappointment? The clowns of the GOP or the potus?

Doesn't matter, Obama's a Muslim. Born in Nigeria. Supported by dope smoking pinko liberals and he's black.

This president has done more good for the common American than any president in my lifetime but doesn't matter. Republicans have better funded marketing program exploiting human weaknesses.

This is the kind of response on which I call smelly, unmitigated bullshit.

Not (only) here, but in just sharing ideas and thoughts on this country, how it's run and by whom, any iota of criticism (or, as is always encouraged, "critical" thought) is dismissed to being blind, biased, bigoted.

God forbid true thoughts and paths of communication are attempted.

Fuck that.

I don't know, I have had many legitimate concerns in this thread, begging for someone to prove me wrong or at least help me with that objective perspective of living in the U.S.

It's not a right or wrong as someone else said its how we the individual view it.And how we choose to act based on our circumstances.Im sure the view is a lot different at all ends of the socioeconomic scale,race scale and where we live geographically.
There is always room for improvement on all levels,always work to be done to make life ,ourselves and our country better.

Here's an example of what I'm trying to say. Take a look at the Water shortage in the SW thread. In the first post, the older couple's view on the water shortage in their new development is that money will solve the problem. Will it? Will their choices on how they act based on their circumstances prove correct? According to "socioeconomic scale,race scale and where we live geographically" will the results pan out? If they came from a poor socioeconomic scale and were black, would they see things differently? Yeah, maybe. But what will actually happen here? Reality based on the couple or reality based on someone else's POV?

See, you take a concrete issue such as water shortage in the SW and development in a desert area where water would have to be supplied from somewhere else, and the results aren't based on individual viewpoints. Sure, throw money at it for the short term, but long-term tell me what will happen. After since they're having drought issues. There will be no water. There's no other view but the earth-based facts. You can't buy natural resources.

There is no denying that this country has problems. And the sooner we face them, the sooner we are able to solve them. But we have to admit them first. Starting with the gun culture that's taken over this country. And how bout the dry SW?

hedonist

I don't think (*edit for common sense) the majority of intelligent folks are turning a blind eye to the issues facing this country and its people.

I'm just saying that assuming criticisms are borne of racism or small-mindedness is as ignorant as the subject/mindset on which this thread is based.

As to where to start, there are a myriad of places - perhaps the importance of each is subjective, relative?

rr165892

backseatLover12 said:

rr165892 said:

backseatLover12 said:

hedonist said:

callen said:

badbrains said:

Seems to me that he's the ONLY one in DC doing ANYTHING. And I'm not a huge supporter. But let's be real here, who's been more of a disappointment? The clowns of the GOP or the potus?

Doesn't matter, Obama's a Muslim. Born in Nigeria. Supported by dope smoking pinko liberals and he's black.

This president has done more good for the common American than any president in my lifetime but doesn't matter. Republicans have better funded marketing program exploiting human weaknesses.

This is the kind of response on which I call smelly, unmitigated bullshit.

Not (only) here, but in just sharing ideas and thoughts on this country, how it's run and by whom, any iota of criticism (or, as is always encouraged, "critical" thought) is dismissed to being blind, biased, bigoted.

God forbid true thoughts and paths of communication are attempted.

Fuck that.

I don't know, I have had many legitimate concerns in this thread, begging for someone to prove me wrong or at least help me with that objective perspective of living in the U.S.

It's not a right or wrong as someone else said its how we the individual view it.And how we choose to act based on our circumstances.Im sure the view is a lot different at all ends of the socioeconomic scale,race scale and where we live geographically.
There is always room for improvement on all levels,always work to be done to make life ,ourselves and our country better.

Here's an example of what I'm trying to say. Take a look at the Water shortage in the SW thread. In the first post, the older couple's view on the water shortage in their new development is that money will solve the problem. Will it? Will their choices on how they act based on their circumstances prove correct? According to "socioeconomic scale,race scale and where we live geographically" will the results pan out? If they came from a poor socioeconomic scale and were black, would they see things differently? Yeah, maybe. But what will actually happen here? Reality based on the couple or reality based on someone else's POV?

See, you take a concrete issue such as water shortage in the SW and development in a desert area where water would have to be supplied from somewhere else, and the results aren't based on individual viewpoints. Sure, throw money at it for the short term, but long-term tell me what will happen. After since they're having drought issues. There will be no water. There's no other view but the earth-based facts. You can't buy natural resources.

There is no denying that this country has problems. And the sooner we face them, the sooner we are able to solve them. But we have to admit them first. Starting with the gun culture that's taken over this country. And how bout the dry SW?

BSL,you crack me up dude.

mrussel1 said:

There are two ways you can love your country (I'm dumbing this down obviously)

1. Mommy love - this is the thought process that your country is perfect and it can do no wrong. The Founding Fathers were infallible and we reached our intellectual zenith in 1791. It's likened to how a young child can find no fault in their mother.

2. Adult love - this is the thought process that, like a marriage, it takes work. We make mistakes and need to mold and shape our country for the future. What was great 100 years ago, isn't great today. So it's great to go on a alcohol fueled week of skiing when you are married for a year and have no kids, but that's frowned upon when your kids need new shoes.

Our country makes mistakes... big ones. Huge ones. Slavery, Indian removal, Japanese Internment camps, Plessy v. Ferguson, Selma, the list goes on and on. You could even debate Hiroshima (let's not right now, but happy to take that one up later). Trying to wash that away or ignore that as part of our history is a monstrous mistake in understanding our country. For those with HS kids, you may know that TX, GA and other states are trying to whitewash many issues from the AP history standards because they don't support American "Exceptionalism"
For the record, I believe in Adult love of the country and am very against changing AP standards.

Regarding Obama's legacy... It's way too early people. Presidential policy results rarely show up immediately. They take time and historical perspective to understand the consequences of policy. The exception is War. That is immediate. Whether you look at LBJ's escalation of Vietnam or Bush's folly in Iraq, those are immediate. But public polices are slow to burn and analyze.

A great example is Clintonian policies of the 90's (with Newt's help). Remember that Gore didn't even campaign with Clinton because he was a pariah on the trail. Now we look back fondly at the economic policies of the 90's and the fabulous era of prosperity and wealth that took place. So it will take another 8 years or more before the book really starts getting written on the age of Obama.

Sorry so long.

This is a very good post.I don't think any of us are so myopic in our thinking that Mommy love is our POV.

rr165892

backseatLover12 said:

rr165892 said:

backseatLover12 said:

hedonist said:

callen said:

badbrains said:

Seems to me that he's the ONLY one in DC doing ANYTHING. And I'm not a huge supporter. But let's be real here, who's been more of a disappointment? The clowns of the GOP or the potus?

Doesn't matter, Obama's a Muslim. Born in Nigeria. Supported by dope smoking pinko liberals and he's black.

This president has done more good for the common American than any president in my lifetime but doesn't matter. Republicans have better funded marketing program exploiting human weaknesses.

This is the kind of response on which I call smelly, unmitigated bullshit.

Not (only) here, but in just sharing ideas and thoughts on this country, how it's run and by whom, any iota of criticism (or, as is always encouraged, "critical" thought) is dismissed to being blind, biased, bigoted.

God forbid true thoughts and paths of communication are attempted.

Fuck that.

I don't know, I have had many legitimate concerns in this thread, begging for someone to prove me wrong or at least help me with that objective perspective of living in the U.S.

It's not a right or wrong as someone else said its how we the individual view it.And how we choose to act based on our circumstances.Im sure the view is a lot different at all ends of the socioeconomic scale,race scale and where we live geographically.
There is always room for improvement on all levels,always work to be done to make life ,ourselves and our country better.

Not this again, man. It's an objective big-picture perspective of the big issues going on in this country, not my personal perspective of how I view life.

No shit.I didn't imply it was a personal view.But you asked for objective perspective.Does not not fly if I don't put enough gloom and doom in it.

rr165892

hedonist said:

I don't think (*edit for common sense) the majority of intelligent folks are turning a blind eye to the issues facing this country and its people.

I'm just saying that assuming criticisms are borne of racism or small-mindedness is as ignorant as the subject/mindset on which this thread is based.

As to where to start, there are a myriad of places - perhaps the importance of each is subjective, relative?

Right on Hedo.

Last-12-Exit

Aren't people looking back on the Clinton administration and blaming his policy on the economic collapse in 2007?

rgambs

Last-12-Exit said:

Aren't people looking back on the Clinton administration and blaming his policy on the economic collapse in 2007?

Those who pay aattention to macro economics are for sure lol
Glass-Steagall was broken by the GLBA...short term prosperity followed (in the finance field the most of course) and then crashed leaving long-term prospects bleak.

If you made your nut and squirreled it away, Clinton was the man, if you are under 30 he boned you big time lol

Bentleyspop

Last-12-Exit said:

Aren't people looking back on the Clinton administration and blaming his policy on the economic collapse in 2007?

I thought Obama was to blame for everything that has ever gone wrong in Amurrica

mrussel1

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Aren't people looking back on the Clinton administration and blaming his policy on the economic collapse in 2007?

Those who pay aattention to macro economics are for sure lol
Glass-Steagall was broken by the GLBA...short term prosperity followed (in the finance field the most of course) and then crashed leaving long-term prospects bleak.

If you made your nut and squirreled it away, Clinton was the man, if you are under 30 he boned you big time lol

That's a philosophical and academic debate for sure. Glass-Steagall may have contributed to the crisis, but remember Citi and Solomon had already merged before GLBA, so it wasn't doing what it was designed to do anyway through the loopholes. And post crisis (today), the Banks are fewer but healthier than ever. Why? In my opinion it is the result of Basel II and the amount of capital reserves that banks are required to keep towards bad loans. And what has that brought us? Healthy banks, but the tightest lending standards by banks in memory along with excruciatingly low loan losses for the banks. Consumers who cannot get credit through the traditional banks, as they did in the 90's, have now turned to peer to peer lending, lending clubs, etc. All of these are companies that are exempt from the OCC and below the radar of the CFPB. So it's interesting that Banks are responding to the crisis, but many consumers are now underserved again, as they were in the 80's and before.

But I digest. We are deep into the financial services weeds, but that's where I live every day.

If there was any Clinton policy that I think really hurt the middle class, it was NAFTA. IMO

rgambs

NAFTA was a bad deal for sure.

hedonist

mrussel1 said:

That's a philosophical and academic debate for sure. Glass-Steagall may have contributed to the crisis, but remember Citi and Solomon had already merged before GLBA, so it wasn't doing what it was designed to do anyway through the loopholes. And post crisis (today), the Banks are fewer but healthier than ever. Why? In my opinion it is the result of Basel II and the amount of capital reserves that banks are required to keep towards bad loans. And what has that brought us? Healthy banks, but the tightest lending standards by banks in memory along with excruciatingly low loan losses for the banks. Consumers who cannot get credit through the traditional banks, as they did in the 90's, have now turned to peer to peer lending, lending clubs, etc. All of these are companies that are exempt from the OCC and below the radar of the CFPB. So it's interesting that Banks are responding to the crisis, but many consumers are now underserved again, as they were in the 80's and before.

But I digest. We are deep into the financial services weeds, but that's where I live every day.

If there was any Clinton policy that I think really hurt the middle class, it was NAFTA. IMO

Not to take away at all from your points, but I had to smile at the bolded part.

mrussel1

I am heavily influenced by Family Guy.. I was watching Blue Harvest the other night with my son and the opening credits say that, after it goes on and on about Anglina Jolie being naked in Gia.

Bentleyspop

Last-12-Exit said:

Aren't people looking back on the Clinton administration and blaming his policy on the economic collapse in 2007?

I thought Obama was to blame for everything that has ever gone wrong in Amurrica

Last-12-Exit

Bentleyspop said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Aren't people looking back on the Clinton administration and blaming his policy on the economic collapse in 2007?

I thought Obama was to blame for everything that has ever gone wrong in Amurrica

Bentleyspop said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Aren't people looking back on the Clinton administration and blaming his policy on the economic collapse in 2007?

I thought Obama was to blame for everything that has ever gone wrong in Amurrica

Are you trying to drive that point home by posting it twice?

gimmesometruth27

Bentleyspop said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Aren't people looking back on the Clinton administration and blaming his policy on the economic collapse in 2007?

I thought Obama was to blame for everything that has ever gone wrong in Amurrica

i did too.

but let's just keep blaming democratic presidents for everything.

considering republicans have been dead wrong on every issue the last 30 years....