I do hope this helps people who need it. Including Caitlyn. However - my husband heard someone comparing Caitlyn to Jackie Robinson. No. I don't think so. (Jackie in a cheesecake shot on a Vanity Fair cover and doing a reality show?)
I'm a little flabbergasted that she's receiving the Arthur Ashe award. Yes, she is brave in a sense to do all this in the public eye, but for people like me who remember Arthur Ashe and what a humanitarian he was, working to end apartheid in South Africa, only going public with his AIDS diagnosis because he was being outed by a newspaper and then fighting to make improvements in care--I just can't make the comparison.
HE is pathetic. The social acceptance of this is atrocious. Whatever HE chooses to do is fine, and HIS choice. Same as I have the same choice, to approve or disapprove. I really do not care what HE does, but I should be able to say i disagree with it and not be ridiculed as well.
And awareness for transgender people? That's a joke. If I decide to wear men's clothes, does that make me a man? It doesn't. Same thing goes for transgender people. Your a woman or a man. If you want to be addressed differently, then make the commitment and go all the way.
I don't care, if I see a man in the woman's restroom I'm pepper spraying his ass and calling the cops.
can you explain why the social acceptance is atrocious? you have a very narrow view of gender identity. as for the pepper spraying I would suggest you don't do that as that is assault and you will be arrested and hopefully charged with a hate crime.
finally, if you really don't care why sprew all the hate you have sprewed?
HE is pathetic. The social acceptance of this is atrocious. Whatever HE chooses to do is fine, and HIS choice. Same as I have the same choice, to approve or disapprove. I really do not care what HE does, but I should be able to say i disagree with it and not be ridiculed as well.
And awareness for transgender people? That's a joke. If I decide to wear men's clothes, does that make me a man? It doesn't. Same thing goes for transgender people. Your a woman or a man. If you want to be addressed differently, then make the commitment and go all the way.
I don't care, if I see a man in the woman's restroom I'm pepper spraying his ass and calling the cops.
I really didn't expect to be this disgusted today. Have fun getting arrested for a hate crime when you pepper spray a trans person in a washroom.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
HE is pathetic. The social acceptance of this is atrocious. Whatever HE chooses to do is fine, and HIS choice. Same as I have the same choice, to approve or disapprove. I really do not care what HE does, but I should be able to say i disagree with it and not be ridiculed as well.
And awareness for transgender people? That's a joke. If I decide to wear men's clothes, does that make me a man? It doesn't. Same thing goes for transgender people. Your a woman or a man. If you want to be addressed differently, then make the commitment and go all the way.
I don't care, if I see a man in the woman's restroom I'm pepper spraying his ass and calling the cops.
I really didn't expect to be this disgusted today. Have fun getting arrested for a hate crime when you pepper spray a trans person in a washroom.
Yeah, I too was thrown by the contempt. OK to call someone else pathetic, do the "HE" in caps, etc. - but no bueno to be called out on such disparagement.
HE is pathetic. The social acceptance of this is atrocious. Whatever HE chooses to do is fine, and HIS choice. Same as I have the same choice, to approve or disapprove. I really do not care what HE does, but I should be able to say i disagree with it and not be ridiculed as well.
And awareness for transgender people? That's a joke. If I decide to wear men's clothes, does that make me a man? It doesn't. Same thing goes for transgender people. Your a woman or a man. If you want to be addressed differently, then make the commitment and go all the way.
I don't care, if I see a man in the woman's restroom I'm pepper spraying his ass and calling the cops.
I really didn't expect to be this disgusted today. Have fun getting arrested for a hate crime when you pepper spray a trans person in a washroom.
Yeah, I too was thrown by the contempt. OK to call someone else pathetic, do the "HE" in caps, etc. - but no bueno to be called out on such disparagement.
Maybe Caitlyn is "JUST A GIRL" as well?
I've found that the loudest bigots have the most to hide...Duggars, Rush Limbaugh...
The joy of life comes from our encounters with new experiences, and hence there is no greater joy than to have an endlessly changing horizon, for each day to have a new and different sun.
Question - I caught a bit of video taken during (or after?) the shoot. How has there been no change in voice? I thought hormone therapy has been in place for awhile.
Actually that's the one thing HRT doesn't do is change your voice.
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Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly. PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
Question - I caught a bit of video taken during (or after?) the shoot. How has there been no change in voice? I thought hormone therapy has been in place for awhile.
Actually that's the one thing HRT doesn't do is change your voice.
Thank you! So how does that work then? ...or does one's voice just stay the same and become "reconditioned" through other means?
It's clear my opinions aren't wanted here. I said this in another post, but I can understand that, and will slip back Into lurking only.
Bash me, don't, who cares. I will no longer post how I feel on anything, so please move along and carry on as you were. I figure instead of replying to all the insults thrown my way for how I feel, it would just be a waste of both of our time. So I wont.
Question - I caught a bit of video taken during (or after?) the shoot. How has there been no change in voice? I thought hormone therapy has been in place for awhile.
Actually that's the one thing HRT doesn't do is change your voice.
Thank you! So how does that work then? ...or does one's voice just stay the same and become "reconditioned" through other means?
*edit - your av is adorable!
I know a few trans people. Most people just practice their voices until it's good or reasonably fem. I think there are videos on how to do it online. When Laura Jane grace of against me! Sings she still mainly sounds masculine. Kinda sounds more fem in interviews.
Thanks on the avatar compliment. That's one of my cats, Kali
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
4/28/16- Philly, PA
4/29/16- Philly, PA
5/1/16- NYC
5/2/16- NYC
9/2/18- Boston, MA
9/4/18- Boston, MA
9/14/22- Camden, NJ
9/7/24- Philly, PA
9/9/24- Philly, PA
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly. PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
HE is pathetic. The social acceptance of this is atrocious. Whatever HE chooses to do is fine, and HIS choice. Same as I have the same choice, to approve or disapprove. I really do not care what HE does, but I should be able to say i disagree with it and not be ridiculed as well.
And awareness for transgender people? That's a joke. If I decide to wear men's clothes, does that make me a man? It doesn't. Same thing goes for transgender people. Your a woman or a man. If you want to be addressed differently, then make the commitment and go all the way.
I don't care, if I see a man in the woman's restroom I'm pepper spraying his ass and calling the cops.
See? Now I am a fucking moron for having an opinion.
Exactly what I said before. We're all supposed to accept something regardless of personal opinion.
Say what you want, I will no longer reply. I'll part with this. HIS name is BRUCE JENNER, and HE is a man. Just because HE wants to be called something else doesn't change what the truth is. And I shouldn't be a expected to call HIM a woman. Because he isn't. No matter how hard HE tries, this fact won't change.
It's clear my opinions aren't wanted here. I said this in another post, but I can understand that, and will slip back Into lurking only.
Bash me, don't, who cares. I will no longer post how I feel on anything, so please move along and carry on as you were. I figure instead of replying to all the insults thrown my way for how I feel, it would just be a waste of both of our time. So I wont.
Huh.
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't your username ImEddieVedder before you transitioned to JUST A GIRL? Curious...did you make the change because the new name felt more like you?
Was the "attention whore" comment in reference to Jenner's Vanity Fair cover, or for transitioning? If it is in regards to transitioning, honestly, there are less invasive ways to get attention than to transition from male to female (although, I will grant you that the Kardashians keep upping the ante on how to grab the public's attention).
From what I understand, Jenner has been struggling with this for years, so this decision is not made in haste like a drunk college girl's decision to get a tramp stamp one night.
Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, and the right to express it--just as other people are entitled to their opinion and to react to yours. The danger would be to just drop your opinion and walk away without the chance for dialogue, which is what you seem to be doing.
^^^ except the poster refuses to have any dialogue whatsoever, "they" (because since they were one a male and now female, I shall use the proper pronoun) choose to spew hate, and refuses to learn anything about transgender people. Fine disagree with being LBGTQ, but don't call them names, and other people won't call you out for being ignorant.
Most people here in AET are loving and very accepting of others, perhaps you will find more heated talk in A Moving Train...unless they are too much.
The joy of life comes from our encounters with new experiences, and hence there is no greater joy than to have an endlessly changing horizon, for each day to have a new and different sun.
^^^ except the poster refuses to have any dialogue whatsoever, "they" (because since they were one a male and now female, I shall use the proper pronoun) choose to spew hate, and refuses to learn anything about transgender people. Fine disagree with being LBGTQ, but don't call them names, and other people won't call you out for being ignorant.
Most people here in AET are loving and very accepting of others, perhaps you will find more heated talk in A Moving Train...unless they are too much.
Yeah, I get that the poster is more interested in making it about them than having a dialogue.
I haven't read this thread yet so please excuse me if I say something that riles anyone up. (!!)
I don't really understand why people need to switch to another sex. It's as if they believe that being male or female is somehow extremely limiting. Why do they feel this? Can't men be gentle? Can't women be disinterested in motherhood? Isn't there variation between all individuals? We're all born with bodies that establish our gender. What is NOT fixed is how we perceive ourselves as individuals.
I think perhaps people that need to switch genders are putting too much emphasis on gender roles. Or, at least, that's how it seems to me.
If gender roles were more mutable, I don't think anyone would need to feel the need to be "transgender."
I'm not trying to be lacking in acceptance, I just don't really understand why a Bruce Jenner would feel like he needs to be a female to be himself/herself!! Couldn't he just be a very gentle man? Why does he think he needs to be female to have these feminine qualities?!
I haven't read this thread yet so please excuse me if I say something that riles anyone up. (!!)
I don't really understand why people need to switch to another sex. It's as if they believe that being male or female is somehow extremely limiting. Why do they feel this? Can't men be gentle? Can't women be disinterested in motherhood? Isn't there variation between all individuals? We're all born with bodies that establish our gender. What is NOT fixed is how we perceive ourselves as individuals.
I think perhaps people that need to switch genders are putting too much emphasis on gender roles. Or, at least, that's how it seems to me.
If gender roles were more mutable, I don't think anyone would need to feel the need to be "transgender."
I'm not trying to be lacking in acceptance, I just don't really understand why a Bruce Jenner would feel like he needs to be a female to be himself/herself!! Couldn't he just be a very gentle man? Why does he think he needs to be female to have these feminine qualities?!
Thank you for asking justam...here is a site you can read more about it...it has to do more with the brain, no one 'chooses' to be trans: http://transascity.org/the-transgender-brain/
The joy of life comes from our encounters with new experiences, and hence there is no greater joy than to have an endlessly changing horizon, for each day to have a new and different sun.
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't your username ImEddieVedder before you transitioned to JUST A GIRL? Curious...did you make the change because the new name felt more like you?
Was the "attention whore" comment in reference to Jenner's Vanity Fair cover, or for transitioning? If it is in regards to transitioning, honestly, there are less invasive ways to get attention than to transition from male to female (although, I will grant you that the Kardashians keep upping the ante on how to grab the public's attention).
From what I understand, Jenner has been struggling with this for years, so this decision is not made in haste like a drunk college girl's decision to get a tramp stamp one night.
Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, and the right to express it--just as other people are entitled to their opinion and to react to yours. The danger would be to just drop your opinion and walk away without the chance for dialogue, which is what you seem to be doing.
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't your username ImEddieVedder before you transitioned to JUST A GIRL? Curious...did you make the change because the new name felt more like you?
Was the "attention whore" comment in reference to Jenner's Vanity Fair cover, or for transitioning? If it is in regards to transitioning, honestly, there are less invasive ways to get attention than to transition from male to female (although, I will grant you that the Kardashians keep upping the ante on how to grab the public's attention).
From what I understand, Jenner has been struggling with this for years, so this decision is not made in haste like a drunk college girl's decision to get a tramp stamp one night.
Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, and the right to express it--just as other people are entitled to their opinion and to react to yours. The danger would be to just drop your opinion and walk away without the chance for dialogue, which is what you seem to be doing.
Bravo to this, and to you.
Plus one here, for sure!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I always thought the voice does change a little bit with hormone therapy as well. (I think it is amazing what hormones can do, even if I suffer from them every fucking single month ) I think Jenner looks remarkable in these pictures. As I understand it, it is a lifelong struggle for transgender people and they cannot do anything about it because they are born like that. They feel like they are in the wrong body, so much that the penis as part of the body becomes an object of self hate. It is not about "I wanna look like a woman and dress up like one and feel good". I wish this human all the best. I don't think this is a publicity stunt, this is way too much of a change in your life to do it just for that.
Post edited by Leezestarr313 on
Please, Pearl Jam, consider a Benaroya Hall vinyl reissue!
Regarding the issue of voice, HRT can only affect things that are mutable, not things that are already fixed. Thus, HRT can cause changes in fat, muscle development, skin and some other things. However, it can't change voice, because the physical changes that occurred at puberty in terms of the structure of the larynx aren't affected, and similarly bone structure is not affected.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Regarding the issue of voice, HRT can only affect things that are mutable, not things that are already fixed. Thus, HRT can cause changes in fat, muscle development, skin and some other things. However, it can't change voice, because the physical changes that occurred at puberty in terms of the structure of the larynx aren't affected, and similarly bone structure is not affected.
And thank YOU. I thought that might be - how could the larynx itself change? But god knows how hormones can fuck with - ahem - *affect* us in so many ways, so I wasn't sure of some of the physical effects.
Kind of a heavy subject for some people so I will just throw this out there for Hedonist. When I saw the vanity fair cover I was confused and channelled my inner George Costanza for a moment..."I think it moved!"
All kidding aside, good for Bruce/Caitlynn. I imagine carrying that around for such a long time had to cause some emotional hurt.
as the OP, back on Feb 4 when this was all news to me, I'm gonna back off of he/she is just doing this for publicity.....one thing does strike me, however....how much Caitlyn is going to help anyone is debatable....she went into this with tons of $$$ and was able to do this "right"....the reality seems like most transgender people are so ostracized they have shit jobs, no money and their attempts at transformation are predictably a little odd. True? No? just my observation....
If I had known then what I know now...
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I think in Germany you have to undergo a psychological examination in order for health care to pay for it. But then it is not a question of money. It is about mental sanity. And you have to live with the new identity for a certain amount of time to prove that you mean it. And people get weeded out, or chicken at the last moment. It has to be a tough decision to have "it" cut off and go for the new identity full force. I don't know how it is in America. It would be odd if you could just buy a gender change. I cannot imagine this would be possible.
Please, Pearl Jam, consider a Benaroya Hall vinyl reissue!
as the OP, back on Feb 4 when this was all news to me, I'm gonna back off of he/she is just doing this for publicity.....one thing does strike me, however....how much Caitlyn is going to help anyone is debatable....she went into this with tons of $$$ and was able to do this "right"....the reality seems like most transgender people are so ostracized they have shit jobs, no money and their attempts at transformation are predictably a little odd. True? No? just my observation....
Jenner definitely has a leg up on most people in that situation. Whatever the intention in doing this, I think it can help a lot of people be more accepting of themselves and each other. So even if Caitlyn did it for the wrong reasons it still shines a light on it.
I think in Germany you have to undergo a psychological examination in order for health care to pay for it. But then it is not a question of money. It is about mental sanity. And you have to live with the new identity for a certain amount of time to prove that you mean it. And people get weeded out, or chicken at the last moment. It has to be a tough decision to have "it" cut off and go for the new identity full force. I don't know how it is in America. It would be odd if you could just buy a gender change. I cannot imagine this would be possible.
Good question....I'm not sure how it works, but I'm pretty sure any of our insurances would NOT cover this.....except for maybe that socialist Obamacare
seriously,,,,,Americans, how do you get a sex change in this country?
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
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Kind of a heavy subject for some people so I will just throw this out there for Hedonist. When I saw the vanity fair cover I was confused and channelled my inner George Costanza for a moment..."I think it moved!"
All kidding aside, good for Bruce/Caitlynn. I imagine carrying that around for such a long time had to cause some emotional hurt.
I thank you, sir! I think most everyone has an inner George.
To be honest, I think the magazine cover and PR and on, strike me as somewhat over the top, and I'm not sure if it's because of how I view the timing of this, plus the leechiness and narcissism of the reality-show side of things in general and those who participate in it, or that CJ (using this from now on) simply needs to do this in a way best for current state of mind.
Guess I'm not a fan in general of the "look-at-me" mentality and those dying to profit from it, but in the end, it's not about me. My life goes on, and I hope others' do as well, each happy with life and ourselves.
I think in Germany you have to undergo a psychological examination in order for health care to pay for it. But then it is not a question of money. It is about mental sanity. And you have to live with the new identity for a certain amount of time to prove that you mean it. And people get weeded out, or chicken at the last moment. It has to be a tough decision to have "it" cut off and go for the new identity full force. I don't know how it is in America. It would be odd if you could just buy a gender change. I cannot imagine this would be possible.
Good question....I'm not sure how it works, but I'm pretty sure any of our insurances would NOT cover this.....except for maybe that socialist Obamacare
seriously,,,,,Americans, how do you get a sex change in this country?
Good question....I'm not sure how it works, but I'm pretty sure any of our insurances would NOT cover this.....except for maybe that socialist Obamacare
seriously,,,,,Americans, how do you get a sex change in this country?
I think in Germany you have to undergo a psychological examination in order for health care to pay for it. But then it is not a question of money. It is about mental sanity. And you have to live with the new identity for a certain amount of time to prove that you mean it. And people get weeded out, or chicken at the last moment. It has to be a tough decision to have "it" cut off and go for the new identity full force. I don't know how it is in America. It would be odd if you could just buy a gender change. I cannot imagine this would be possible.
Good question....I'm not sure how it works, but I'm pretty sure any of our insurances would NOT cover this.....except for maybe that socialist Obamacare
seriously,,,,,Americans, how do you get a sex change in this country?
Craigslist.
Youtube instructional videos
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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Comments
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finally, if you really don't care why sprew all the hate you have sprewed?
Have fun getting arrested for a hate crime when you pepper spray a trans person in a washroom.
Maybe Caitlyn is "JUST A GIRL" as well?
- Christopher McCandless
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
4/28/16- Philly, PA
4/29/16- Philly, PA
5/1/16- NYC
5/2/16- NYC
9/2/18- Boston, MA
9/4/18- Boston, MA
9/14/22- Camden, NJ
9/7/24- Philly, PA
9/9/24- Philly, PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
*edit - your av is adorable!
Bash me, don't, who cares. I will no longer post how I feel on anything, so please move along and carry on as you were. I figure instead of replying to all the insults thrown my way for how I feel, it would just be a waste of both of our time. So I wont.
Thanks on the avatar compliment. That's one of my cats, Kali
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
4/28/16- Philly, PA
4/29/16- Philly, PA
5/1/16- NYC
5/2/16- NYC
9/2/18- Boston, MA
9/4/18- Boston, MA
9/14/22- Camden, NJ
9/7/24- Philly, PA
9/9/24- Philly, PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't your username ImEddieVedder before you transitioned to JUST A GIRL? Curious...did you make the change because the new name felt more like you?
Was the "attention whore" comment in reference to Jenner's Vanity Fair cover, or for transitioning? If it is in regards to transitioning, honestly, there are less invasive ways to get attention than to transition from male to female (although, I will grant you that the Kardashians keep upping the ante on how to grab the public's attention).
From what I understand, Jenner has been struggling with this for years, so this decision is not made in haste like a drunk college girl's decision to get a tramp stamp one night.
Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, and the right to express it--just as other people are entitled to their opinion and to react to yours. The danger would be to just drop your opinion and walk away without the chance for dialogue, which is what you seem to be doing.
Most people here in AET are loving and very accepting of others, perhaps you will find more heated talk in A Moving Train...unless they are too much.
- Christopher McCandless
I don't really understand why people need to switch to another sex. It's as if they believe that being male or female is somehow extremely limiting. Why do they feel this? Can't men be gentle? Can't women be disinterested in motherhood? Isn't there variation between all individuals?
We're all born with bodies that establish our gender. What is NOT fixed is how we perceive ourselves as individuals.
I think perhaps people that need to switch genders are putting too much emphasis on gender roles. Or, at least, that's how it seems to me.
If gender roles were more mutable, I don't think anyone would need to feel the need to be "transgender."
I'm not trying to be lacking in acceptance, I just don't really understand why a Bruce Jenner would feel like he needs to be a female to be himself/herself!! Couldn't he just be a very gentle man? Why does he think he needs to be female to have these feminine qualities?!
- Christopher McCandless
Gotta say I'm learning a lot from this.
When I saw the vanity fair cover I was confused and channelled my inner George Costanza for a moment..."I think it moved!"
All kidding aside, good for Bruce/Caitlynn. I imagine carrying that around for such a long time had to cause some emotional hurt.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
seriously,,,,,Americans, how do you get a sex change in this country?
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
To be honest, I think the magazine cover and PR and on, strike me as somewhat over the top, and I'm not sure if it's because of how I view the timing of this, plus the leechiness and narcissism of the reality-show side of things in general and those who participate in it, or that CJ (using this from now on) simply needs to do this in a way best for current state of mind.
Guess I'm not a fan in general of the "look-at-me" mentality and those dying to profit from it, but in the end, it's not about me. My life goes on, and I hope others' do as well, each happy with life and ourselves.
Not hurting anyone along the way? Go for it.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14