Another death, police not indicted

Gern Blansten

rr165892 said:

Gern Blansten said:

rr165892 said:

Sorry Gern but paycheck,embrace and liberals should not be used in the same sentence unless of course we are talking about how to make them (pay checks)smaller.

You are delusional. Which party has been pushing "right to work" legislation?

Which party is pushing for an increase in the minimum wage? Wake up

Delusional Gern I don't think so.I get both sides here.I am an employer.One who has had full insurance and health benefits,401 k and other very generous perks for my employees way before the govt told me I needed to.Even the lowest paid employee I have makes more then double minimum wage.Again I didn't need to be prompted by govt.
Has everyone of my people brought home less on their checks under this admin then last yes! Have I paid way more in taxes you bet.Im stroking all those checks every week,I see first hand how much less my employees being home.
I don't care which party is ruling.It is just important that we pave the way for Sucess for all buisness owners and self employed folks.That way we can hire more people and the cycle continues.(sound familiar?)

oh...and by "under this administration" do you mean your leadership? What the hell does Obama have to do with your business. My revenues went up about 15% last year. Was that thanks to Obama? or me?

Answer: ME

http://www.vox.com/2014/12/5/7339051/november-unemployment-rate

muskydan

rr165892 said:

dignin said:

muskydan said:

benjs said:

muskydan said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

This one is just tragic.Id call this one a accidental death,a tragedy.I really didn't see excessive force.No guns,tazers,pepper spray.Just Cops trying to arrest a big dude who was not making it easy.This wasn't murder by a long shot.Horrible and tragic and unnecessary yes but I watch the video a few times and I don't see a bunch of gung-ho storm troopers.Just typical police work that had a bad accident.

What amount of force is necessary for a man selling loose cigarettes? To me it seems to be NONE. Typical police work, I agree, that's exactly the problem. Escalate what should be a citation and a goodbye into a show of force which carries the risk of tragedy for civilian and officer alike.

Not the act .The amount of force is relative to his size and non compliance and his perceived escalating hostile demeanor. It sucks and any death is horrible but they could not just sit back and do nothing.
I do agree it is not a good outcome and senseless waste of life.

I disagree, sit back and do nothing is exactly what they could have done. This man posed no threat, real or potential, to anybody and they could/should have written him a citation and a summons and went about their day or ignored him entirely. Instead, they chose a display of force so they could show him how tough they are. Meanwhile, how often does a cop or firefighter get a traffic citation? They can turn a blind eye to that but they have to be out there policing the looseys. Broken window policing is racially disparate, just like stop and frisk, and both are bad policy because they lead to unnecessary confrontations with the risk of violence or death.
Should every pot smoker be arrested?
Should we start arresting people for speeding and failure to stop at stop signs?
Should we arrest people for jaywalking? Where does it end?

This man was arrested, what 30 times? Over untaxed cigarettes.
Mitt Romney doesn't get arrested for millions in tax evasion. Billions in fraud and tax evasion in the financial collapse, nobody arrested.
But these cops couldn't sit back and do nothing? Bullshit!

Damit!! I got coffee and donut stains all over me again...That's the second shirt I ruined from laughing so hard at a post. This blinders on policing is starting to sound better and better and safer for everyone apparently... Interesting concept. Thanks for the tip.

Y'know... I'm getting a little bit tired of you telling every single person here who disagrees with you and backs up their opinion with case studies or statistics that we're deluded, don't understand the hardships of your job, or are taking the popular opinion. Or just making a complete mockery of everything we say.

My theory? You, and many police officers at this point in time, are having trouble coping with the fact that you might now be discriminated against because of a demographic you belong to. How ironic.

It's always been that way Pal, atleast in my town. I will never forget what my Feild training officer said 2 me on my first day.....kid, congratulations ..you are now closer to going 2 jail than you ever have been in your life putting on that uniform, just don't get yourself killed. I thought he was an old crusty veteran that was out of touch and didn't care anymore, but boy I was wrong. Liberal Society is going to get the kind of Policing that they are demanding and that is quite fine with me and everyone I work with. Taking reports and waiting for backup w/ in progress calls is a lot safer for us and apparently citizens. The Police will take the blame as we always do when homicides and shootings skyrocket in urban areas And all the community activist/revruns will be up in arms again for the Police not being aggressive enough dealing with the thug- life element. The song remains the same....been through this countless of times in my town.

This right here is the crux of the problem we have. Some police don't consider themselves part of the community they are policing. It's us vs. them, we are the enemy, and that's very problematic and scary.

Thanks for making that abundantly clear Musky.

Dosent it depend on the community Digin? Based on what I have read,Musky works in an inner city precinct in a very violent city.One of the most violent in the country.Im assuming for this conversation sake that its a minority beat and Musky is white and does not live where he works.So how can he really be part of a community that Dosent trust and embrace him anyway?
.But each day he suits up and risks his own life(lets not forget how many cops die each year at the hands of criminals) To protect and serve members of that same community.How about before we all pile on the lone law enforcement Pearl Jam brother who was at least man enough to come on and talk about how this affects him and others in blue while most were ragging on his profession and spitting vitriolic blurbs his way.we take a second and put ourselves in his shoes and see things through his eyes.He told you his partner is black and he is not a Rascist.He should be thanked for his service not ridiculed.What the fuck is wrong with this ass backward over the top take the criminal side of things on this board.Makes me really wonder.

You nailed it there rr... You'd make a good Dick, that is detective in cop talk. Thanks for the backup...

muskydan

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

muskydan said:

Gern Blansten said:

muskydan said:

dignin said:

muskydan said:

benjs said:

muskydan said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

This one is just tragic.Id call this one a accidental death,a tragedy.I really didn't see excessive force.No guns,tazers,pepper spray.Just Cops trying to arrest a big dude who was not making it easy.This wasn't murder by a long shot.Horrible and tragic and unnecessary yes but I watch the video a few times and I don't see a bunch of gung-ho storm troopers.Just typical police work that had a bad accident.

What amount of force is necessary for a man selling loose cigarettes? To me it seems to be NONE. Typical police work, I agree, that's exactly the problem. Escalate what should be a citation and a goodbye into a show of force which carries the risk of tragedy for civilian and officer alike.

Not the act .The amount of force is relative to his size and non compliance and his perceived escalating hostile demeanor. It sucks and any death is horrible but they could not just sit back and do nothing.
I do agree it is not a good outcome and senseless waste of life.

I disagree, sit back and do nothing is exactly what they could have done. This man posed no threat, real or potential, to anybody and they could/should have written him a citation and a summons and went about their day or ignored him entirely. Instead, they chose a display of force so they could show him how tough they are. Meanwhile, how often does a cop or firefighter get a traffic citation? They can turn a blind eye to that but they have to be out there policing the looseys. Broken window policing is racially disparate, just like stop and frisk, and both are bad policy because they lead to unnecessary confrontations with the risk of violence or death.
Should every pot smoker be arrested?
Should we start arresting people for speeding and failure to stop at stop signs?
Should we arrest people for jaywalking? Where does it end?

This man was arrested, what 30 times? Over untaxed cigarettes.
Mitt Romney doesn't get arrested for millions in tax evasion. Billions in fraud and tax evasion in the financial collapse, nobody arrested.
But these cops couldn't sit back and do nothing? Bullshit!

Damit!! I got coffee and donut stains all over me again...That's the second shirt I ruined from laughing so hard at a post. This blinders on policing is starting to sound better and better and safer for everyone apparently... Interesting concept. Thanks for the tip.

Y'know... I'm getting a little bit tired of you telling every single person here who disagrees with you and backs up their opinion with case studies or statistics that we're deluded, don't understand the hardships of your job, or are taking the popular opinion. Or just making a complete mockery of everything we say.

My theory? You, and many police officers at this point in time, are having trouble coping with the fact that you might now be discriminated against because of a demographic you belong to. How ironic.

It's always been that way Pal, atleast in my town. I will never forget what my Feild training officer said 2 me on my first day.....kid, congratulations ..you are now closer to going 2 jail than you ever have been in your life putting on that uniform, just don't get yourself killed. I thought he was an old crusty veteran that was out of touch and didn't care anymore, but boy I was wrong. Liberal Society is going to get the kind of Policing that they are demanding and that is quite fine with me and everyone I work with. Taking reports and waiting for backup w/ in progress calls is a lot safer for us and apparently citizens. The Police will take the blame as we always do when homicides and shootings skyrocket in urban areas And all the community activist/revruns will be up in arms again for the Police not being aggressive enough dealing with the thug- life element. The song remains the same....been through this countless of times in my town.

This right here is the crux of the problem we have. Some police don't consider themselves part of the community they are policing. It's us vs. them, we are the enemy, and that's very problematic and scary.

Thanks for making that abundantly clear Musky.

It was my pleasure sir. And you are absolutey right, I don't consider myself part of the urban community I am forced to work in.. I am one who respects having a job, being respectful to my woman by marrying her and not having 10 kids with 7 different lady friends, staying off crack and heroin, not selling my food stamps meant for my 10 kids for 50dy cents on the $ to buy booze and cigarettes, essentially living a pathetic existence all paid for by you and me. Now you might ask, why don't you get the hell out of there??? Well just like all civil servant jobs it's all about senority. In my town you need atleat 20 years on to bid to one of "those" kinds communities . I gots a few more years 2 go. Be safe and keep on rockin in the free world !!

You are definitely a disgrace to the uniform.

Not tonight, I have never been prouder than getting deployed downtown for our lovely protesters. The Hard WORKING people of my city got a first hand look at the types of kuckleheads who overtake the streets (Lake Shore Drive, Michigan Ave) and protest. The protesters totally inconvenienced thousands of WORKING folks just tying to get home to their families and others trying to get to the Bears game. The Police gained a lot of fans tonight here for dealing with them professionally no matter how much they tried to bait us. Protest lasted about 6 hours in turn pissing off every tourist and local trying to enjoy downtown Chicago. My favorite part were the drunken Bears fans leaving the game giving the protesters the "business" which mind you mainly consisted of clueless college kids and inner city urban types that never got the memo of pants up... when the hell is that style going to go away anyhow?? Anyhow, I need to hit the rack…I got a date with the great outdoors tomr to hopefully stick a thick 10 point buck ….

PS. Anyone out there join in or see the protest? I would love your take on it...

Dan
Any time you want to have a drink.

The 1st 10 are on me.

Ya Buddddy, Alive one, Murphies Bleachers, and of course Stanley's would be some great spots. Plus no worries on the drinks, I drink for freeeeeee at those spots. Perhaps Chelly will join us;)

backseatLover12

Hey Musky Dan, how about answering my questions?

muskydan

rgambs said:

muskydan said:

Gern Blansten said:

muskydan said:

dignin said:

muskydan said:

benjs said:

muskydan said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

This one is just tragic.Id call this one a accidental death,a tragedy.I really didn't see excessive force.No guns,tazers,pepper spray.Just Cops trying to arrest a big dude who was not making it easy.This wasn't murder by a long shot.Horrible and tragic and unnecessary yes but I watch the video a few times and I don't see a bunch of gung-ho storm troopers.Just typical police work that had a bad accident.

What amount of force is necessary for a man selling loose cigarettes? To me it seems to be NONE. Typical police work, I agree, that's exactly the problem. Escalate what should be a citation and a goodbye into a show of force which carries the risk of tragedy for civilian and officer alike.

Not the act .The amount of force is relative to his size and non compliance and his perceived escalating hostile demeanor. It sucks and any death is horrible but they could not just sit back and do nothing.
I do agree it is not a good outcome and senseless waste of life.

I disagree, sit back and do nothing is exactly what they could have done. This man posed no threat, real or potential, to anybody and they could/should have written him a citation and a summons and went about their day or ignored him entirely. Instead, they chose a display of force so they could show him how tough they are. Meanwhile, how often does a cop or firefighter get a traffic citation? They can turn a blind eye to that but they have to be out there policing the looseys. Broken window policing is racially disparate, just like stop and frisk, and both are bad policy because they lead to unnecessary confrontations with the risk of violence or death.
Should every pot smoker be arrested?
Should we start arresting people for speeding and failure to stop at stop signs?
Should we arrest people for jaywalking? Where does it end?

This man was arrested, what 30 times? Over untaxed cigarettes.
Mitt Romney doesn't get arrested for millions in tax evasion. Billions in fraud and tax evasion in the financial collapse, nobody arrested.
But these cops couldn't sit back and do nothing? Bullshit!

Damit!! I got coffee and donut stains all over me again...That's the second shirt I ruined from laughing so hard at a post. This blinders on policing is starting to sound better and better and safer for everyone apparently... Interesting concept. Thanks for the tip.

Y'know... I'm getting a little bit tired of you telling every single person here who disagrees with you and backs up their opinion with case studies or statistics that we're deluded, don't understand the hardships of your job, or are taking the popular opinion. Or just making a complete mockery of everything we say.

My theory? You, and many police officers at this point in time, are having trouble coping with the fact that you might now be discriminated against because of a demographic you belong to. How ironic.

It's always been that way Pal, atleast in my town. I will never forget what my Feild training officer said 2 me on my first day.....kid, congratulations ..you are now closer to going 2 jail than you ever have been in your life putting on that uniform, just don't get yourself killed. I thought he was an old crusty veteran that was out of touch and didn't care anymore, but boy I was wrong. Liberal Society is going to get the kind of Policing that they are demanding and that is quite fine with me and everyone I work with. Taking reports and waiting for backup w/ in progress calls is a lot safer for us and apparently citizens. The Police will take the blame as we always do when homicides and shootings skyrocket in urban areas And all the community activist/revruns will be up in arms again for the Police not being aggressive enough dealing with the thug- life element. The song remains the same....been through this countless of times in my town.

This right here is the crux of the problem we have. Some police don't consider themselves part of the community they are policing. It's us vs. them, we are the enemy, and that's very problematic and scary.

Thanks for making that abundantly clear Musky.

It was my pleasure sir. And you are absolutey right, I don't consider myself part of the urban community I am forced to work in.. I am one who respects having a job, being respectful to my woman by marrying her and not having 10 kids with 7 different lady friends, staying off crack and heroin, not selling my food stamps meant for my 10 kids for 50dy cents on the $ to buy booze and cigarettes, essentially living a pathetic existence all paid for by you and me. Now you might ask, why don't you get the hell out of there??? Well just like all civil servant jobs it's all about senority. In my town you need atleat 20 years on to bid to one of "those" kinds communities . I gots a few more years 2 go. Be safe and keep on rockin in the free world !!

You are definitely a disgrace to the uniform.

Not tonight, I have never been prouder than getting deployed downtown for our lovely protesters. The Hard WORKING people of my city got a first hand look at the types of kuckleheads who overtake the streets (Lake Shore Drive, Michigan Ave) and protest. The protesters totally inconvenienced thousands of WORKING folks just tying to get home to their families and others trying to get to the Bears game. The Police gained a lot of fans tonight here for dealing with them professionally no matter how much they tried to bait us. Protest lasted about 6 hours in turn pissing off every tourist and local trying to enjoy downtown Chicago. My favorite part were the drunken Bears fans leaving the game giving the protesters the "business" which mind you mainly consisted of clueless college kids and inner city urban types that never got the memo of pants up... when the hell is that style going to go away anyhow?? Anyhow, I need to hit the rack…I got a date with the great outdoors tomr to hopefully stick a thick 10 point buck ….

PS. Anyone out there join in or see the protest? I would love your take on it...

First of all, your capitalization of "working" shows your prejudice, as you have exactly ZERO knowledge of how many of the protesters are employed, full time or otherwise.
Second, since you like to mock I feel it is fair to return the favor.
Awwwwww boooo hoo did some people get inconvenienced on their way to a silly sports game?? What a travesty! If only people could travel to and from their gladitorial arena in peace life would be so much better, boody fuckin hoo! It's so much more of an inconvenience that being racially profiled for you whole life and fearing police abuse.
On a more serious note, you enjoyed the drunken Bears fans eh? Isn't public intoxication against the law? Perhaps you had your hilarious blinders on?
Oh and BTW low pants will go out of style just as soon as baggy FOX racing shirts, camo everything everyday, pink camo, nut hugging skinny jeans, penis hat beanies, ugg boots, and skin tight yoga pants do for white folks.

Oh Rgambs, you never fail me. Nothing like waking up 2 your thoughts. It appears I maybe growing on you just a teeny tiney bit....perhaps you would enjoy meeting up w/ speedy and I and for some drinks? I can tell you got some synicalness in Ya...Keep up the good fight .

muskydan

backseatLover12 said:

Hey Musky Dan, how about answering my questions?

I gots no time my man, I am running late getting my shit together for muzzle loader season. Perhaps when i get up there I will from the deer stand. But the phone is usually off...nothing like tuning off...

Indifference71

rgambs said:

Gern Blansten said:

muskydan said:

dignin said:

muskydan said:

benjs said:

muskydan said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

This one is just tragic.Id call this one a accidental death,a tragedy.I really didn't see excessive force.No guns,tazers,pepper spray.Just Cops trying to arrest a big dude who was not making it easy.This wasn't murder by a long shot.Horrible and tragic and unnecessary yes but I watch the video a few times and I don't see a bunch of gung-ho storm troopers.Just typical police work that had a bad accident.

What amount of force is necessary for a man selling loose cigarettes? To me it seems to be NONE. Typical police work, I agree, that's exactly the problem. Escalate what should be a citation and a goodbye into a show of force which carries the risk of tragedy for civilian and officer alike.

Not the act .The amount of force is relative to his size and non compliance and his perceived escalating hostile demeanor. It sucks and any death is horrible but they could not just sit back and do nothing.
I do agree it is not a good outcome and senseless waste of life.

I disagree, sit back and do nothing is exactly what they could have done. This man posed no threat, real or potential, to anybody and they could/should have written him a citation and a summons and went about their day or ignored him entirely. Instead, they chose a display of force so they could show him how tough they are. Meanwhile, how often does a cop or firefighter get a traffic citation? They can turn a blind eye to that but they have to be out there policing the looseys. Broken window policing is racially disparate, just like stop and frisk, and both are bad policy because they lead to unnecessary confrontations with the risk of violence or death.
Should every pot smoker be arrested?
Should we start arresting people for speeding and failure to stop at stop signs?
Should we arrest people for jaywalking? Where does it end?

This man was arrested, what 30 times? Over untaxed cigarettes.
Mitt Romney doesn't get arrested for millions in tax evasion. Billions in fraud and tax evasion in the financial collapse, nobody arrested.
But these cops couldn't sit back and do nothing? Bullshit!

Damit!! I got coffee and donut stains all over me again...That's the second shirt I ruined from laughing so hard at a post. This blinders on policing is starting to sound better and better and safer for everyone apparently... Interesting concept. Thanks for the tip.

Y'know... I'm getting a little bit tired of you telling every single person here who disagrees with you and backs up their opinion with case studies or statistics that we're deluded, don't understand the hardships of your job, or are taking the popular opinion. Or just making a complete mockery of everything we say.

My theory? You, and many police officers at this point in time, are having trouble coping with the fact that you might now be discriminated against because of a demographic you belong to. How ironic.

It's always been that way Pal, atleast in my town. I will never forget what my Feild training officer said 2 me on my first day.....kid, congratulations ..you are now closer to going 2 jail than you ever have been in your life putting on that uniform, just don't get yourself killed. I thought he was an old crusty veteran that was out of touch and didn't care anymore, but boy I was wrong. Liberal Society is going to get the kind of Policing that they are demanding and that is quite fine with me and everyone I work with. Taking reports and waiting for backup w/ in progress calls is a lot safer for us and apparently citizens. The Police will take the blame as we always do when homicides and shootings skyrocket in urban areas And all the community activist/revruns will be up in arms again for the Police not being aggressive enough dealing with the thug- life element. The song remains the same....been through this countless of times in my town.

This right here is the crux of the problem we have. Some police don't consider themselves part of the community they are policing. It's us vs. them, we are the enemy, and that's very problematic and scary.

Thanks for making that abundantly clear Musky.

It was my pleasure sir. And you are absolutey right, I don't consider myself part of the urban community I am forced to work in.. I am one who respects having a job, being respectful to my woman by marrying her and not having 10 kids with 7 different lady friends, staying off crack and heroin, not selling my food stamps meant for my 10 kids for 50dy cents on the $ to buy booze and cigarettes, essentially living a pathetic existence all paid for by you and me. Now you might ask, why don't you get the hell out of there??? Well just like all civil servant jobs it's all about senority. In my town you need atleat 20 years on to bid to one of "those" kinds communities . I gots a few more years 2 go. Be safe and keep on rockin in the free world !!

You are definitely a disgrace to the uniform.

This is a bit of an extreme judgement, you may disagree with him but disgrace is unfair.

It's a very extreme judgement. You may not agree with his views, but to call him a disgrace to his job when you have no clue what he deals with on a daily basis is a bit much.

rr165892

Musky how close to Wrigley is your area?

muskydan

rr165892 said:

Musky how close to Wrigley is your area?

4 blocks .. I see the friendly confines from my lazy boy.

muskydan

rr165892 said:

Musky how close to Wrigley is your area?

I work nowhere near there thou ....

Gern Blansten

Musky said:

It was my pleasure sir. And you are absolutey right, I don't consider myself part of the urban community I am forced to work in.. I am one who respects having a job, being respectful to my woman by marrying her and not having 10 kids with 7 different lady friends, staying off crack and heroin, not selling my food stamps meant for my 10 kids for 50dy cents on the $ to buy booze and cigarettes, essentially living a pathetic existence all paid for by you and me. Now you might ask, why don't you get the hell out of there??? Well just like all civil servant jobs it's all about senority. In my town you need atleat 20 years on to bid to one of "those" kinds communities . I gots a few more years 2 go. Be safe and keep on rockin in the free world !!

Maybe an apology is due....did I assume that Musky was generalizing the actions of a few and applying that to an entire group? The entire group that he is paid to serve and protect?

I probably did assume that and offer my apology....too much coffee maybe.

But it really is kind of disturbing to read Musky's post. Or am I misinterpreting ""those" kinds of (sic) communities?"

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Wow.

Very personal attacks made on a guy who, quite frankly, is shooting from the hip. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with his words, but I would never presume to think I am above him in character to judge him as 'a disgrace'.

Musky... I understand that you have likely seen some awful things. I understand that in time, after viewing so many awful things, that your perceptions have been shaped to some degree. I understand that this is human nature and I feel that as much as you might vent here in light of the pages and pages of attacks on your profession... you are very likely a really good guy.

You'll have to forgive the internet messiahs for their rude assessments. While it's likely they have never actually performed anything close to the duties you fulfill... I appreciate you do not lash back at their assessments of your character despite this.

dignin

Gern Blansten said:

Musky said:

It was my pleasure sir. And you are absolutey right, I don't consider myself part of the urban community I am forced to work in.. I am one who respects having a job, being respectful to my woman by marrying her and not having 10 kids with 7 different lady friends, staying off crack and heroin, not selling my food stamps meant for my 10 kids for 50dy cents on the $ to buy booze and cigarettes, essentially living a pathetic existence all paid for by you and me. Now you might ask, why don't you get the hell out of there??? Well just like all civil servant jobs it's all about senority. In my town you need atleat 20 years on to bid to one of "those" kinds communities . I gots a few more years 2 go. Be safe and keep on rockin in the free world !!

Maybe an apology is due....did I assume that Musky was generalizing the actions of a few and applying that to an entire group? The entire group that he is paid to serve and protect?

I probably did assume that and offer my apology....too much coffee maybe.

But it really is kind of disturbing to read Musky's post. Or am I misinterpreting ""those" kinds of (sic) communities?"

I don't like making this about one person but.......

His posts are disturbing.....and borderline

Gern Blansten

.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Wow.

Very personal attacks made on a guy who, quite frankly, is shooting from the hip. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with his words, but I would never presume to think I am above him in character to judge him as 'a disgrace'.

Musky... I understand that you have likely seen some awful things. I understand that in time, after viewing so many awful things, that your perceptions have been shaped to some degree. I understand that this is human nature and I feel that as much as you might vent here in light of the pages and pages of attacks on your profession... you are very likely a really good guy.

You'll have to forgive the internet messiahs for their rude assessments. While it's likely they have never actually performed anything close to the duties you fulfill... I appreciate you do not lash back at their assessments of your character despite this.

I certainly don't pretend to have a job anywhere near as dangerous as Musky....no doubt about that.

I just can't get by his verbiage...."those" communities? Hear that? He's speaking in code

of course I could be wrong

JC29856

my 2 cents (da Bears suk!)

here is an analogy to someone working as post sales customer service rep... 100% percent of what they deal with are "problems" but its only 5% of the total sales. ask the customer service rep how good the product is and they will tell you it sucks, i spend my entire day dealing with problems. they are unlikely to tell you about the other 95% of sales that went smoothly.

Chicagos population is 2.7M, the muskys deal with 108,000 robbers and arsonists most of the time while the other 2.5M citizens go on their merry law abiding ways.

anyway carry on...

oftenreading

Gern Blansten said:

muskydan said:

dignin said:

muskydan said:

benjs said:

muskydan said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

This one is just tragic.Id call this one a accidental death,a tragedy.I really didn't see excessive force.No guns,tazers,pepper spray.Just Cops trying to arrest a big dude who was not making it easy.This wasn't murder by a long shot.Horrible and tragic and unnecessary yes but I watch the video a few times and I don't see a bunch of gung-ho storm troopers.Just typical police work that had a bad accident.

What amount of force is necessary for a man selling loose cigarettes? To me it seems to be NONE. Typical police work, I agree, that's exactly the problem. Escalate what should be a citation and a goodbye into a show of force which carries the risk of tragedy for civilian and officer alike.

Not the act .The amount of force is relative to his size and non compliance and his perceived escalating hostile demeanor. It sucks and any death is horrible but they could not just sit back and do nothing.
I do agree it is not a good outcome and senseless waste of life.

I disagree, sit back and do nothing is exactly what they could have done. This man posed no threat, real or potential, to anybody and they could/should have written him a citation and a summons and went about their day or ignored him entirely. Instead, they chose a display of force so they could show him how tough they are. Meanwhile, how often does a cop or firefighter get a traffic citation? They can turn a blind eye to that but they have to be out there policing the looseys. Broken window policing is racially disparate, just like stop and frisk, and both are bad policy because they lead to unnecessary confrontations with the risk of violence or death.
Should every pot smoker be arrested?
Should we start arresting people for speeding and failure to stop at stop signs?
Should we arrest people for jaywalking? Where does it end?

This man was arrested, what 30 times? Over untaxed cigarettes.
Mitt Romney doesn't get arrested for millions in tax evasion. Billions in fraud and tax evasion in the financial collapse, nobody arrested.
But these cops couldn't sit back and do nothing? Bullshit!

Damit!! I got coffee and donut stains all over me again...That's the second shirt I ruined from laughing so hard at a post. This blinders on policing is starting to sound better and better and safer for everyone apparently... Interesting concept. Thanks for the tip.

Y'know... I'm getting a little bit tired of you telling every single person here who disagrees with you and backs up their opinion with case studies or statistics that we're deluded, don't understand the hardships of your job, or are taking the popular opinion. Or just making a complete mockery of everything we say.

My theory? You, and many police officers at this point in time, are having trouble coping with the fact that you might now be discriminated against because of a demographic you belong to. How ironic.

It's always been that way Pal, atleast in my town. I will never forget what my Feild training officer said 2 me on my first day.....kid, congratulations ..you are now closer to going 2 jail than you ever have been in your life putting on that uniform, just don't get yourself killed. I thought he was an old crusty veteran that was out of touch and didn't care anymore, but boy I was wrong. Liberal Society is going to get the kind of Policing that they are demanding and that is quite fine with me and everyone I work with. Taking reports and waiting for backup w/ in progress calls is a lot safer for us and apparently citizens. The Police will take the blame as we always do when homicides and shootings skyrocket in urban areas And all the community activist/revruns will be up in arms again for the Police not being aggressive enough dealing with the thug- life element. The song remains the same....been through this countless of times in my town.

This right here is the crux of the problem we have. Some police don't consider themselves part of the community they are policing. It's us vs. them, we are the enemy, and that's very problematic and scary.

Thanks for making that abundantly clear Musky.

It was my pleasure sir. And you are absolutey right, I don't consider myself part of the urban community I am forced to work in.. I am one who respects having a job, being respectful to my woman by marrying her and not having 10 kids with 7 different lady friends, staying off crack and heroin, not selling my food stamps meant for my 10 kids for 50dy cents on the $ to buy booze and cigarettes, essentially living a pathetic existence all paid for by you and me. Now you might ask, why don't you get the hell out of there??? Well just like all civil servant jobs it's all about senority. In my town you need atleat 20 years on to bid to one of "those" kinds communities . I gots a few more years 2 go. Be safe and keep on rockin in the free world !!

You are definitely a disgrace to the uniform.

I'm not keen on muskydan's comments but to call him a disgrace is uncalled for. While we do quite different work, we share a commonality in that we tend to see people at their worst. When you see the same people self-destructing day by day, taking their families with them and spitting in the faces (sometimes literally) of those trying hard to help them you can get very cynical about them. I can see this in my colleagues at times, and to be honest I feel it in myself occasionally. I try hard to be aware of it and to keep coming back to each person's essential humanity regardless of what they are doing. I'm guessing muskydan went into policing with great goals and ideals but these bump up against reality at times. Muskydan, whatever you see of each person isn't all that is there.

Indifference71

JC29856 said:

my 2 cents (da Bears suk!)

here is an analogy to someone working as post sales customer service rep... 100% percent of what they deal with are "problems" but its only 5% of the total sales. ask the customer service rep how good the product is and they will tell you it sucks, i spend my entire day dealing with problems. they are unlikely to tell you about the other 95% of sales that went smoothly.

Chicagos population is 2.7M, the muskys deal with 108,000 robbers and arsonists most of the time while the other 2.5M citizens go on their merry law abiding ways.

anyway carry on...

Perfect analogy. Musky works in some of the most dangerous neighborhoods that you can even imagine. I know plenty of Chicago cops and you can't even believe some of the stories that you hear about what they deal with on a daily basis. While a lot of people see his views as extreme, I think it's pretty unfair to jump all over him and judge him without walking a day in his shoes.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

JC29856 said:

my 2 cents (da Bears suk!)

here is an analogy to someone working as post sales customer service rep... 100% percent of what they deal with are "problems" but its only 5% of the total sales. ask the customer service rep how good the product is and they will tell you it sucks, i spend my entire day dealing with problems. they are unlikely to tell you about the other 95% of sales that went smoothly.

Chicagos population is 2.7M, the muskys deal with 108,000 robbers and arsonists most of the time while the other 2.5M citizens go on their merry law abiding ways.

anyway carry on...

JC shows a different side to himself. A nice contribution, JC. Seriously.

muskydan

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JC29856 said:

my 2 cents (da Bears suk!)

here is an analogy to someone working as post sales customer service rep... 100% percent of what they deal with are "problems" but its only 5% of the total sales. ask the customer service rep how good the product is and they will tell you it sucks, i spend my entire day dealing with problems. they are unlikely to tell you about the other 95% of sales that went smoothly.

Chicagos population is 2.7M, the muskys deal with 108,000 robbers and arsonists most of the time while the other 2.5M citizens go on their merry law abiding ways.

anyway carry on...

JC shows a different side to himself. A nice contribution, JC. Seriously.

I concur and agree with him somewhat for the first time since I have been on the Forum...especially Da Bears suck part, even thou I still wear my Walter Payton jersey my oldman gave me in 85 to bed the night before every big Bears game..and ALL fudgePacker games....Perhaps we should all have a pow wow or PJ summit to discuss all the world issues sometime at a local gin joint. No more joints for me anymore unfortionately

Gern Blansten

oftenreading said:

Gern Blansten said:

muskydan said:

dignin said:

muskydan said:

benjs said:

muskydan said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

This one is just tragic.Id call this one a accidental death,a tragedy.I really didn't see excessive force.No guns,tazers,pepper spray.Just Cops trying to arrest a big dude who was not making it easy.This wasn't murder by a long shot.Horrible and tragic and unnecessary yes but I watch the video a few times and I don't see a bunch of gung-ho storm troopers.Just typical police work that had a bad accident.

What amount of force is necessary for a man selling loose cigarettes? To me it seems to be NONE. Typical police work, I agree, that's exactly the problem. Escalate what should be a citation and a goodbye into a show of force which carries the risk of tragedy for civilian and officer alike.

Not the act .The amount of force is relative to his size and non compliance and his perceived escalating hostile demeanor. It sucks and any death is horrible but they could not just sit back and do nothing.
I do agree it is not a good outcome and senseless waste of life.

I disagree, sit back and do nothing is exactly what they could have done. This man posed no threat, real or potential, to anybody and they could/should have written him a citation and a summons and went about their day or ignored him entirely. Instead, they chose a display of force so they could show him how tough they are. Meanwhile, how often does a cop or firefighter get a traffic citation? They can turn a blind eye to that but they have to be out there policing the looseys. Broken window policing is racially disparate, just like stop and frisk, and both are bad policy because they lead to unnecessary confrontations with the risk of violence or death.
Should every pot smoker be arrested?
Should we start arresting people for speeding and failure to stop at stop signs?
Should we arrest people for jaywalking? Where does it end?

This man was arrested, what 30 times? Over untaxed cigarettes.
Mitt Romney doesn't get arrested for millions in tax evasion. Billions in fraud and tax evasion in the financial collapse, nobody arrested.
But these cops couldn't sit back and do nothing? Bullshit!

Damit!! I got coffee and donut stains all over me again...That's the second shirt I ruined from laughing so hard at a post. This blinders on policing is starting to sound better and better and safer for everyone apparently... Interesting concept. Thanks for the tip.

Y'know... I'm getting a little bit tired of you telling every single person here who disagrees with you and backs up their opinion with case studies or statistics that we're deluded, don't understand the hardships of your job, or are taking the popular opinion. Or just making a complete mockery of everything we say.

My theory? You, and many police officers at this point in time, are having trouble coping with the fact that you might now be discriminated against because of a demographic you belong to. How ironic.

It's always been that way Pal, atleast in my town. I will never forget what my Feild training officer said 2 me on my first day.....kid, congratulations ..you are now closer to going 2 jail than you ever have been in your life putting on that uniform, just don't get yourself killed. I thought he was an old crusty veteran that was out of touch and didn't care anymore, but boy I was wrong. Liberal Society is going to get the kind of Policing that they are demanding and that is quite fine with me and everyone I work with. Taking reports and waiting for backup w/ in progress calls is a lot safer for us and apparently citizens. The Police will take the blame as we always do when homicides and shootings skyrocket in urban areas And all the community activist/revruns will be up in arms again for the Police not being aggressive enough dealing with the thug- life element. The song remains the same....been through this countless of times in my town.

This right here is the crux of the problem we have. Some police don't consider themselves part of the community they are policing. It's us vs. them, we are the enemy, and that's very problematic and scary.

Thanks for making that abundantly clear Musky.

It was my pleasure sir. And you are absolutey right, I don't consider myself part of the urban community I am forced to work in.. I am one who respects having a job, being respectful to my woman by marrying her and not having 10 kids with 7 different lady friends, staying off crack and heroin, not selling my food stamps meant for my 10 kids for 50dy cents on the $ to buy booze and cigarettes, essentially living a pathetic existence all paid for by you and me. Now you might ask, why don't you get the hell out of there??? Well just like all civil servant jobs it's all about senority. In my town you need atleat 20 years on to bid to one of "those" kinds communities . I gots a few more years 2 go. Be safe and keep on rockin in the free world !!

You are definitely a disgrace to the uniform.

I'm not keen on muskydan's comments but to call him a disgrace is uncalled for. While we do quite different work, we share a commonality in that we tend to see people at their worst. When you see the same people self-destructing day by day, taking their families with them and spitting in the faces (sometimes literally) of those trying hard to help them you can get very cynical about them. I can see this in my colleagues at times, and to be honest I feel it in myself occasionally. I try hard to be aware of it and to keep coming back to each person's essential humanity regardless of what they are doing. I'm guessing muskydan went into policing with great goals and ideals but these bump up against reality at times. Muskydan, whatever you see of each person isn't all that is there.

I might be out of line but I'm pretty sure that if Musky tweeted (non anonymously) what he said here he would be fired. Pretty sure about that.