Another death, police not indicted

JC29856

http://www.tytnetwork.com/2014/12/03/teen-choked-by-cop-after-refusing-to-show-id/

Choke hold video over not producing id

JC29856

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XI1uAdr_s4

Last-12-Exit

Jc, you're filling these threads with all of these links that don't have anything to do with the topic. It's becoming quite the chore filtering through what is relevant and what is nonsense.

oftenreading

muskydan said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

This one is just tragic.Id call this one a accidental death,a tragedy.I really didn't see excessive force.No guns,tazers,pepper spray.Just Cops trying to arrest a big dude who was not making it easy.This wasn't murder by a long shot.Horrible and tragic and unnecessary yes but I watch the video a few times and I don't see a bunch of gung-ho storm troopers.Just typical police work that had a bad accident.

What amount of force is necessary for a man selling loose cigarettes? To me it seems to be NONE. Typical police work, I agree, that's exactly the problem. Escalate what should be a citation and a goodbye into a show of force which carries the risk of tragedy for civilian and officer alike.

Not the act .The amount of force is relative to his size and non compliance and his perceived escalating hostile demeanor. It sucks and any death is horrible but they could not just sit back and do nothing.
I do agree it is not a good outcome and senseless waste of life.

I disagree, sit back and do nothing is exactly what they could have done. This man posed no threat, real or potential, to anybody and they could/should have written him a citation and a summons and went about their day or ignored him entirely. Instead, they chose a display of force so they could show him how tough they are. Meanwhile, how often does a cop or firefighter get a traffic citation? They can turn a blind eye to that but they have to be out there policing the looseys. Broken window policing is racially disparate, just like stop and frisk, and both are bad policy because they lead to unnecessary confrontations with the risk of violence or death.
Should every pot smoker be arrested?
Should we start arresting people for speeding and failure to stop at stop signs?
Should we arrest people for jaywalking? Where does it end?

This man was arrested, what 30 times? Over untaxed cigarettes.
Mitt Romney doesn't get arrested for millions in tax evasion. Billions in fraud and tax evasion in the financial collapse, nobody arrested.
But these cops couldn't sit back and do nothing? Bullshit!

Damit!! I got coffee and donut stains all over me again...That's the second shirt I ruined from laughing so hard at a post. This blinders on policing is starting to sound better and better and safer for everyone apparently... Interesting concept. Thanks for the tip.

I'm not actually sure what you mean by "blinders on policing", but in the context of it being a reply to rgambs' post, it sounds as if you are referring to police discretion as to whether, and how, to enforce a law at any particular point based on public interest. I believe that police already have this discretion. Just one example from our jurisdiction - after a couple of highly publicized high speed chases that ended badly (one fatally), the police are now directed not to engage in a high speed chase (unless there is very clear evidence that they need to to preserve immediate public safety). Since then, there have been a few cases in which they broke off a chase and instead managed to get other officers to stop the vehicle further along, and all have ended well, without injury to anyone. Another example - when responding to "mental health calls", police are strongly encourage to hang back, try to engage in non-threatening dialogue, and not try to rush in and "subdue" the individual or "take control" of the situation; again, these tend to end much better, and we see less violence, not more. Well trained and thoughtful police can always choose whether there is an alternative to just charging in.

JC29856

Last-12-Exit said:

Jc, you're filling these threads with all of these links that don't have anything to do with the topic. It's becoming quite the chore filtering through what is relevant and what is nonsense.

which ones arent relevant? i delete them.

Last-12-Exit

JC29856 said:

http://www.tytnetwork.com/2014/12/03/teen-choked-by-cop-after-refusing-to-show-id/

Choke hold video over not producing id

This is irrelevant to the topic. Just because a cop put a kid in a choke hold does not make it relevant to the guy that died in NYC. What does this add to this topic? Seriously?

Last-12-Exit

JC29856 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XI1uAdr_s4

This is also irrelevant. This move to evade a choke hold doesn't matter one bit. Why? Because there were 4 or 5 other officers there ready to pounce as soon as he "escaped."

Remember, the choke hold was not the cause of death. He was alive when they let go of it. It was certainly a factor. But the officers all kneeling on his back was far more damaging than the choke hold.

JC29856

Last-12-Exit said:

JC29856 said:

http://www.tytnetwork.com/2014/12/03/teen-choked-by-cop-after-refusing-to-show-id/

Choke hold video over not producing id

This is irrelevant to the topic. Just because a cop put a kid in a choke hold does not make it relevant to the guy that died in NYC. What does this add to this topic? Seriously?

you asked why are chokeholds illegal?
that video shows a corpus christi cop putting a choke hold on a girl that refused to show id, he threatened to shoot her.
after the investigation the chief said althou it is not illegal to use choke holds its not prudent or common to use choke holds to induce compliance. the cop wasnt charged for choke hold or threat to shoot the girl.

JC29856

Last-12-Exit said:

JC29856 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XI1uAdr_s4

This is also irrelevant. This move to evade a choke hold doesn't matter one bit. Why? Because there were 4 or 5 other officers there ready to pounce as soon as he "escaped."

Remember, the choke hold was not the cause of death. He was alive when they let go of it. It was certainly a factor. But the officers all kneeling on his back was far more damaging than the choke hold.

self defense is very important... the girl was asked for id outside of a restaurant and then put in a choke hold, this can happen at a PJ concert.
its obvious from your comment "if you're talking, you're breathing" that you were never put in a choke hold so i posted the video just in case you were ever put in one.
well we're clogging up the threads with this nonsense so back to the topic at hand.

Last-12-Exit

Yes, I have been put in a choke hold. And if you are truly being choked, you won't be talking.

Cliffy6745

Last-12-Exit said:

Yes, I have been put in a choke hold. And if you are truly being choked, you won't be talking.

But funny thing is, he did choke, and died. So he proved you wrong.

JC29856

Cliffy6745 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Yes, I have been put in a choke hold. And if you are truly being choked, you won't be talking.

But funny thing is, he did choke, and died. So he proved you wrong.

Our definitions of choking differ...he takes the position that choking is complete cut off of air mine is partial cut off.

I'm not trying to prove wrong just add to the discussion.

Last-12-Exit

Cliffy6745 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Yes, I have been put in a choke hold. And if you are truly being choked, you won't be talking.

But funny thing is, he did choke, and died. So he proved you wrong.

Funny? Sure. Hilarious.

Indifference71

That's a disturbing video. It's really hard for me to believe that those cops had no choice but to handle the situation like that.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Ok, now this situation?
Personally I think that cop should be choked to death.
But that's just me.

JC29856

Does anyone else think Eric Garner was lying when he pled 11 times I can't breathe?

benjs

muskydan said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

This one is just tragic.Id call this one a accidental death,a tragedy.I really didn't see excessive force.No guns,tazers,pepper spray.Just Cops trying to arrest a big dude who was not making it easy.This wasn't murder by a long shot.Horrible and tragic and unnecessary yes but I watch the video a few times and I don't see a bunch of gung-ho storm troopers.Just typical police work that had a bad accident.

What amount of force is necessary for a man selling loose cigarettes? To me it seems to be NONE. Typical police work, I agree, that's exactly the problem. Escalate what should be a citation and a goodbye into a show of force which carries the risk of tragedy for civilian and officer alike.

Not the act .The amount of force is relative to his size and non compliance and his perceived escalating hostile demeanor. It sucks and any death is horrible but they could not just sit back and do nothing.
I do agree it is not a good outcome and senseless waste of life.

I disagree, sit back and do nothing is exactly what they could have done. This man posed no threat, real or potential, to anybody and they could/should have written him a citation and a summons and went about their day or ignored him entirely. Instead, they chose a display of force so they could show him how tough they are. Meanwhile, how often does a cop or firefighter get a traffic citation? They can turn a blind eye to that but they have to be out there policing the looseys. Broken window policing is racially disparate, just like stop and frisk, and both are bad policy because they lead to unnecessary confrontations with the risk of violence or death.
Should every pot smoker be arrested?
Should we start arresting people for speeding and failure to stop at stop signs?
Should we arrest people for jaywalking? Where does it end?

This man was arrested, what 30 times? Over untaxed cigarettes.
Mitt Romney doesn't get arrested for millions in tax evasion. Billions in fraud and tax evasion in the financial collapse, nobody arrested.
But these cops couldn't sit back and do nothing? Bullshit!

Damit!! I got coffee and donut stains all over me again...That's the second shirt I ruined from laughing so hard at a post. This blinders on policing is starting to sound better and better and safer for everyone apparently... Interesting concept. Thanks for the tip.

Y'know... I'm getting a little bit tired of you telling every single person here who disagrees with you and backs up their opinion with case studies or statistics that we're deluded, don't understand the hardships of your job, or are taking the popular opinion. Or just making a complete mockery of everything we say.

My theory? You, and many police officers at this point in time, are having trouble coping with the fact that you might now be discriminated against because of a demographic you belong to. How ironic.

muskydan

benjs said:

muskydan said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

This one is just tragic.Id call this one a accidental death,a tragedy.I really didn't see excessive force.No guns,tazers,pepper spray.Just Cops trying to arrest a big dude who was not making it easy.This wasn't murder by a long shot.Horrible and tragic and unnecessary yes but I watch the video a few times and I don't see a bunch of gung-ho storm troopers.Just typical police work that had a bad accident.

What amount of force is necessary for a man selling loose cigarettes? To me it seems to be NONE. Typical police work, I agree, that's exactly the problem. Escalate what should be a citation and a goodbye into a show of force which carries the risk of tragedy for civilian and officer alike.

Not the act .The amount of force is relative to his size and non compliance and his perceived escalating hostile demeanor. It sucks and any death is horrible but they could not just sit back and do nothing.
I do agree it is not a good outcome and senseless waste of life.

I disagree, sit back and do nothing is exactly what they could have done. This man posed no threat, real or potential, to anybody and they could/should have written him a citation and a summons and went about their day or ignored him entirely. Instead, they chose a display of force so they could show him how tough they are. Meanwhile, how often does a cop or firefighter get a traffic citation? They can turn a blind eye to that but they have to be out there policing the looseys. Broken window policing is racially disparate, just like stop and frisk, and both are bad policy because they lead to unnecessary confrontations with the risk of violence or death.
Should every pot smoker be arrested?
Should we start arresting people for speeding and failure to stop at stop signs?
Should we arrest people for jaywalking? Where does it end?

This man was arrested, what 30 times? Over untaxed cigarettes.
Mitt Romney doesn't get arrested for millions in tax evasion. Billions in fraud and tax evasion in the financial collapse, nobody arrested.
But these cops couldn't sit back and do nothing? Bullshit!

Damit!! I got coffee and donut stains all over me again...That's the second shirt I ruined from laughing so hard at a post. This blinders on policing is starting to sound better and better and safer for everyone apparently... Interesting concept. Thanks for the tip.

Y'know... I'm getting a little bit tired of you telling every single person here who disagrees with you and backs up their opinion with case studies or statistics that we're deluded, don't understand the hardships of your job, or are taking the popular opinion. Or just making a complete mockery of everything we say.

My theory? You, and many police officers at this point in time, are having trouble coping with the fact that you might now be discriminated against because of a demographic you belong to. How ironic.

It's always been that way Pal, atleast in my town. I will never forget what my Feild training officer said 2 me on my first day.....kid, congratulations ..you are now closer to going 2 jail than you ever have been in your life putting on that uniform, just don't get yourself killed. I thought he was an old crusty veteran that was out of touch and didn't care anymore, but boy I was wrong. Liberal Society is going to get the kind of Policing that they are demanding and that is quite fine with me and everyone I work with. Taking reports and waiting for backup w/ in progress calls is a lot safer for us and apparently citizens. The Police will take the blame as we always do when homicides and shootings skyrocket in urban areas And all the community activist/revruns will be up in arms again for the Police not being aggressive enough dealing with the thug- life element. The song remains the same....been through this countless of times in my town.

dignin

muskydan said:

benjs said:

muskydan said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

This one is just tragic.Id call this one a accidental death,a tragedy.I really didn't see excessive force.No guns,tazers,pepper spray.Just Cops trying to arrest a big dude who was not making it easy.This wasn't murder by a long shot.Horrible and tragic and unnecessary yes but I watch the video a few times and I don't see a bunch of gung-ho storm troopers.Just typical police work that had a bad accident.

What amount of force is necessary for a man selling loose cigarettes? To me it seems to be NONE. Typical police work, I agree, that's exactly the problem. Escalate what should be a citation and a goodbye into a show of force which carries the risk of tragedy for civilian and officer alike.

Not the act .The amount of force is relative to his size and non compliance and his perceived escalating hostile demeanor. It sucks and any death is horrible but they could not just sit back and do nothing.
I do agree it is not a good outcome and senseless waste of life.

I disagree, sit back and do nothing is exactly what they could have done. This man posed no threat, real or potential, to anybody and they could/should have written him a citation and a summons and went about their day or ignored him entirely. Instead, they chose a display of force so they could show him how tough they are. Meanwhile, how often does a cop or firefighter get a traffic citation? They can turn a blind eye to that but they have to be out there policing the looseys. Broken window policing is racially disparate, just like stop and frisk, and both are bad policy because they lead to unnecessary confrontations with the risk of violence or death.
Should every pot smoker be arrested?
Should we start arresting people for speeding and failure to stop at stop signs?
Should we arrest people for jaywalking? Where does it end?

This man was arrested, what 30 times? Over untaxed cigarettes.
Mitt Romney doesn't get arrested for millions in tax evasion. Billions in fraud and tax evasion in the financial collapse, nobody arrested.
But these cops couldn't sit back and do nothing? Bullshit!

Damit!! I got coffee and donut stains all over me again...That's the second shirt I ruined from laughing so hard at a post. This blinders on policing is starting to sound better and better and safer for everyone apparently... Interesting concept. Thanks for the tip.

Y'know... I'm getting a little bit tired of you telling every single person here who disagrees with you and backs up their opinion with case studies or statistics that we're deluded, don't understand the hardships of your job, or are taking the popular opinion. Or just making a complete mockery of everything we say.

My theory? You, and many police officers at this point in time, are having trouble coping with the fact that you might now be discriminated against because of a demographic you belong to. How ironic.

It's always been that way Pal, atleast in my town. I will never forget what my Feild training officer said 2 me on my first day.....kid, congratulations ..you are now closer to going 2 jail than you ever have been in your life putting on that uniform, just don't get yourself killed. I thought he was an old crusty veteran that was out of touch and didn't care anymore, but boy I was wrong. Liberal Society is going to get the kind of Policing that they are demanding and that is quite fine with me and everyone I work with. Taking reports and waiting for backup w/ in progress calls is a lot safer for us and apparently citizens. The Police will take the blame as we always do when homicides and shootings skyrocket in urban areas And all the community activist/revruns will be up in arms again for the Police not being aggressive enough dealing with the thug- life element. The song remains the same....been through this countless of times in my town.

This right here is the crux of the problem we have. Some police don't consider themselves part of the community they are policing. It's us vs. them, we are the enemy, and that's very problematic and scary.

Thanks for making that abundantly clear Musky.

Gern Blansten

muskydan said:

benjs said:

muskydan said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

This one is just tragic.Id call this one a accidental death,a tragedy.I really didn't see excessive force.No guns,tazers,pepper spray.Just Cops trying to arrest a big dude who was not making it easy.This wasn't murder by a long shot.Horrible and tragic and unnecessary yes but I watch the video a few times and I don't see a bunch of gung-ho storm troopers.Just typical police work that had a bad accident.

What amount of force is necessary for a man selling loose cigarettes? To me it seems to be NONE. Typical police work, I agree, that's exactly the problem. Escalate what should be a citation and a goodbye into a show of force which carries the risk of tragedy for civilian and officer alike.

Not the act .The amount of force is relative to his size and non compliance and his perceived escalating hostile demeanor. It sucks and any death is horrible but they could not just sit back and do nothing.
I do agree it is not a good outcome and senseless waste of life.

I disagree, sit back and do nothing is exactly what they could have done. This man posed no threat, real or potential, to anybody and they could/should have written him a citation and a summons and went about their day or ignored him entirely. Instead, they chose a display of force so they could show him how tough they are. Meanwhile, how often does a cop or firefighter get a traffic citation? They can turn a blind eye to that but they have to be out there policing the looseys. Broken window policing is racially disparate, just like stop and frisk, and both are bad policy because they lead to unnecessary confrontations with the risk of violence or death.
Should every pot smoker be arrested?
Should we start arresting people for speeding and failure to stop at stop signs?
Should we arrest people for jaywalking? Where does it end?

This man was arrested, what 30 times? Over untaxed cigarettes.
Mitt Romney doesn't get arrested for millions in tax evasion. Billions in fraud and tax evasion in the financial collapse, nobody arrested.
But these cops couldn't sit back and do nothing? Bullshit!

Damit!! I got coffee and donut stains all over me again...That's the second shirt I ruined from laughing so hard at a post. This blinders on policing is starting to sound better and better and safer for everyone apparently... Interesting concept. Thanks for the tip.

Y'know... I'm getting a little bit tired of you telling every single person here who disagrees with you and backs up their opinion with case studies or statistics that we're deluded, don't understand the hardships of your job, or are taking the popular opinion. Or just making a complete mockery of everything we say.

My theory? You, and many police officers at this point in time, are having trouble coping with the fact that you might now be discriminated against because of a demographic you belong to. How ironic.

It's always been that way Pal, atleast in my town. I will never forget what my Feild training officer said 2 me on my first day.....kid, congratulations ..you are now closer to going 2 jail than you ever have been in your life putting on that uniform, just don't get yourself killed. I thought he was an old crusty veteran that was out of touch and didn't care anymore, but boy I was wrong. Liberal Society is going to get the kind of Policing that they are demanding and that is quite fine with me and everyone I work with. Taking reports and waiting for backup w/ in progress calls is a lot safer for us and apparently citizens. The Police will take the blame as we always do when homicides and shootings skyrocket in urban areas And all the community activist/revruns will be up in arms again for the Police not being aggressive enough dealing with the thug- life element. The song remains the same....been through this countless of times in my town.

And what is "liberal society?" It's amazing how many people I see throwing that word around.

I can't fathom how anyone in a union (police, fire, teacher, etc.) or the military can identify with the republican party. You should embrace liberals my friend. Your paycheck depends on it.