It was my pleasure sir. And you are absolutey right, I don't consider myself part of the urban community I am forced to work in.. I am one who respects having a job, being respectful to my woman by marrying her and not having 10 kids with 7 different lady friends, staying off crack and heroin, not selling my food stamps meant for my 10 kids for 50dy cents on the $ to buy booze and cigarettes, essentially living a pathetic existence all paid for by you and me. Now you might ask, why don't you get the hell out of there??? Well just like all civil servant jobs it's all about senority. In my town you need atleat 20 years on to bid to one of "those" kinds communities . I gots a few more years 2 go. Be safe and keep on rockin in the free world !!
Maybe an apology is due....did I assume that Musky was generalizing the actions of a few and applying that to an entire group? The entire group that he is paid to serve and protect?
I probably did assume that and offer my apology....too much coffee maybe.
But it really is kind of disturbing to read Musky's post. Or am I misinterpreting ""those" kinds of (sic) communities?"
Post edited by Gern Blansten on
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Very personal attacks made on a guy who, quite frankly, is shooting from the hip. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with his words, but I would never presume to think I am above him in character to judge him as 'a disgrace'.
Musky... I understand that you have likely seen some awful things. I understand that in time, after viewing so many awful things, that your perceptions have been shaped to some degree. I understand that this is human nature and I feel that as much as you might vent here in light of the pages and pages of attacks on your profession... you are very likely a really good guy.
You'll have to forgive the internet messiahs for their rude assessments. While it's likely they have never actually performed anything close to the duties you fulfill... I appreciate you do not lash back at their assessments of your character despite this.
It was my pleasure sir. And you are absolutey right, I don't consider myself part of the urban community I am forced to work in.. I am one who respects having a job, being respectful to my woman by marrying her and not having 10 kids with 7 different lady friends, staying off crack and heroin, not selling my food stamps meant for my 10 kids for 50dy cents on the $ to buy booze and cigarettes, essentially living a pathetic existence all paid for by you and me. Now you might ask, why don't you get the hell out of there??? Well just like all civil servant jobs it's all about senority. In my town you need atleat 20 years on to bid to one of "those" kinds communities . I gots a few more years 2 go. Be safe and keep on rockin in the free world !!
Maybe an apology is due....did I assume that Musky was generalizing the actions of a few and applying that to an entire group? The entire group that he is paid to serve and protect?
I probably did assume that and offer my apology....too much coffee maybe.
But it really is kind of disturbing to read Musky's post. Or am I misinterpreting ""those" kinds of (sic) communities?"
I don't like making this about one person but.......
Very personal attacks made on a guy who, quite frankly, is shooting from the hip. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with his words, but I would never presume to think I am above him in character to judge him as 'a disgrace'.
Musky... I understand that you have likely seen some awful things. I understand that in time, after viewing so many awful things, that your perceptions have been shaped to some degree. I understand that this is human nature and I feel that as much as you might vent here in light of the pages and pages of attacks on your profession... you are very likely a really good guy.
You'll have to forgive the internet messiahs for their rude assessments. While it's likely they have never actually performed anything close to the duties you fulfill... I appreciate you do not lash back at their assessments of your character despite this.
I certainly don't pretend to have a job anywhere near as dangerous as Musky....no doubt about that.
I just can't get by his verbiage...."those" communities? Hear that? He's speaking in code
of course I could be wrong
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
here is an analogy to someone working as post sales customer service rep... 100% percent of what they deal with are "problems" but its only 5% of the total sales. ask the customer service rep how good the product is and they will tell you it sucks, i spend my entire day dealing with problems. they are unlikely to tell you about the other 95% of sales that went smoothly.
Chicagos population is 2.7M, the muskys deal with 108,000 robbers and arsonists most of the time while the other 2.5M citizens go on their merry law abiding ways.
This one is just tragic.Id call this one a accidental death,a tragedy.I really didn't see excessive force.No guns,tazers,pepper spray.Just Cops trying to arrest a big dude who was not making it easy.This wasn't murder by a long shot.Horrible and tragic and unnecessary yes but I watch the video a few times and I don't see a bunch of gung-ho storm troopers.Just typical police work that had a bad accident.
What amount of force is necessary for a man selling loose cigarettes? To me it seems to be NONE. Typical police work, I agree, that's exactly the problem. Escalate what should be a citation and a goodbye into a show of force which carries the risk of tragedy for civilian and officer alike.
Not the act .The amount of force is relative to his size and non compliance and his perceived escalating hostile demeanor. It sucks and any death is horrible but they could not just sit back and do nothing. I do agree it is not a good outcome and senseless waste of life.
I disagree, sit back and do nothing is exactly what they could have done. This man posed no threat, real or potential, to anybody and they could/should have written him a citation and a summons and went about their day or ignored him entirely. Instead, they chose a display of force so they could show him how tough they are. Meanwhile, how often does a cop or firefighter get a traffic citation? They can turn a blind eye to that but they have to be out there policing the looseys. Broken window policing is racially disparate, just like stop and frisk, and both are bad policy because they lead to unnecessary confrontations with the risk of violence or death. Should every pot smoker be arrested? Should we start arresting people for speeding and failure to stop at stop signs? Should we arrest people for jaywalking? Where does it end?
This man was arrested, what 30 times? Over untaxed cigarettes. Mitt Romney doesn't get arrested for millions in tax evasion. Billions in fraud and tax evasion in the financial collapse, nobody arrested. But these cops couldn't sit back and do nothing? Bullshit!
Damit!! I got coffee and donut stains all over me again...That's the second shirt I ruined from laughing so hard at a post. This blinders on policing is starting to sound better and better and safer for everyone apparently... Interesting concept. Thanks for the tip.
Y'know... I'm getting a little bit tired of you telling every single person here who disagrees with you and backs up their opinion with case studies or statistics that we're deluded, don't understand the hardships of your job, or are taking the popular opinion. Or just making a complete mockery of everything we say.
My theory? You, and many police officers at this point in time, are having trouble coping with the fact that you might now be discriminated against because of a demographic you belong to. How ironic.
It's always been that way Pal, atleast in my town. I will never forget what my Feild training officer said 2 me on my first day.....kid, congratulations ..you are now closer to going 2 jail than you ever have been in your life putting on that uniform, just don't get yourself killed. I thought he was an old crusty veteran that was out of touch and didn't care anymore, but boy I was wrong. Liberal Society is going to get the kind of Policing that they are demanding and that is quite fine with me and everyone I work with. Taking reports and waiting for backup w/ in progress calls is a lot safer for us and apparently citizens. The Police will take the blame as we always do when homicides and shootings skyrocket in urban areas And all the community activist/revruns will be up in arms again for the Police not being aggressive enough dealing with the thug- life element. The song remains the same....been through this countless of times in my town.
This right here is the crux of the problem we have. Some police don't consider themselves part of the community they are policing. It's us vs. them, we are the enemy, and that's very problematic and scary.
Thanks for making that abundantly clear Musky.
It was my pleasure sir. And you are absolutey right, I don't consider myself part of the urban community I am forced to work in.. I am one who respects having a job, being respectful to my woman by marrying her and not having 10 kids with 7 different lady friends, staying off crack and heroin, not selling my food stamps meant for my 10 kids for 50dy cents on the $ to buy booze and cigarettes, essentially living a pathetic existence all paid for by you and me. Now you might ask, why don't you get the hell out of there??? Well just like all civil servant jobs it's all about senority. In my town you need atleat 20 years on to bid to one of "those" kinds communities . I gots a few more years 2 go. Be safe and keep on rockin in the free world !!
You are definitely a disgrace to the uniform.
I'm not keen on muskydan's comments but to call him a disgrace is uncalled for. While we do quite different work, we share a commonality in that we tend to see people at their worst. When you see the same people self-destructing day by day, taking their families with them and spitting in the faces (sometimes literally) of those trying hard to help them you can get very cynical about them. I can see this in my colleagues at times, and to be honest I feel it in myself occasionally. I try hard to be aware of it and to keep coming back to each person's essential humanity regardless of what they are doing. I'm guessing muskydan went into policing with great goals and ideals but these bump up against reality at times. Muskydan, whatever you see of each person isn't all that is there.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
here is an analogy to someone working as post sales customer service rep... 100% percent of what they deal with are "problems" but its only 5% of the total sales. ask the customer service rep how good the product is and they will tell you it sucks, i spend my entire day dealing with problems. they are unlikely to tell you about the other 95% of sales that went smoothly.
Chicagos population is 2.7M, the muskys deal with 108,000 robbers and arsonists most of the time while the other 2.5M citizens go on their merry law abiding ways.
anyway carry on...
Perfect analogy. Musky works in some of the most dangerous neighborhoods that you can even imagine. I know plenty of Chicago cops and you can't even believe some of the stories that you hear about what they deal with on a daily basis. While a lot of people see his views as extreme, I think it's pretty unfair to jump all over him and judge him without walking a day in his shoes.
here is an analogy to someone working as post sales customer service rep... 100% percent of what they deal with are "problems" but its only 5% of the total sales. ask the customer service rep how good the product is and they will tell you it sucks, i spend my entire day dealing with problems. they are unlikely to tell you about the other 95% of sales that went smoothly.
Chicagos population is 2.7M, the muskys deal with 108,000 robbers and arsonists most of the time while the other 2.5M citizens go on their merry law abiding ways.
anyway carry on...
JC shows a different side to himself. A nice contribution, JC. Seriously.
here is an analogy to someone working as post sales customer service rep... 100% percent of what they deal with are "problems" but its only 5% of the total sales. ask the customer service rep how good the product is and they will tell you it sucks, i spend my entire day dealing with problems. they are unlikely to tell you about the other 95% of sales that went smoothly.
Chicagos population is 2.7M, the muskys deal with 108,000 robbers and arsonists most of the time while the other 2.5M citizens go on their merry law abiding ways.
anyway carry on...
JC shows a different side to himself. A nice contribution, JC. Seriously.
I concur and agree with him somewhat for the first time since I have been on the Forum...especially Da Bears suck part, even thou I still wear my Walter Payton jersey my oldman gave me in 85 to bed the night before every big Bears game..and ALL fudgePacker games....Perhaps we should all have a pow wow or PJ summit to discuss all the world issues sometime at a local gin joint. No more joints for me anymore unfortionately
This one is just tragic.Id call this one a accidental death,a tragedy.I really didn't see excessive force.No guns,tazers,pepper spray.Just Cops trying to arrest a big dude who was not making it easy.This wasn't murder by a long shot.Horrible and tragic and unnecessary yes but I watch the video a few times and I don't see a bunch of gung-ho storm troopers.Just typical police work that had a bad accident.
What amount of force is necessary for a man selling loose cigarettes? To me it seems to be NONE. Typical police work, I agree, that's exactly the problem. Escalate what should be a citation and a goodbye into a show of force which carries the risk of tragedy for civilian and officer alike.
Not the act .The amount of force is relative to his size and non compliance and his perceived escalating hostile demeanor. It sucks and any death is horrible but they could not just sit back and do nothing. I do agree it is not a good outcome and senseless waste of life.
I disagree, sit back and do nothing is exactly what they could have done. This man posed no threat, real or potential, to anybody and they could/should have written him a citation and a summons and went about their day or ignored him entirely. Instead, they chose a display of force so they could show him how tough they are. Meanwhile, how often does a cop or firefighter get a traffic citation? They can turn a blind eye to that but they have to be out there policing the looseys. Broken window policing is racially disparate, just like stop and frisk, and both are bad policy because they lead to unnecessary confrontations with the risk of violence or death. Should every pot smoker be arrested? Should we start arresting people for speeding and failure to stop at stop signs? Should we arrest people for jaywalking? Where does it end?
This man was arrested, what 30 times? Over untaxed cigarettes. Mitt Romney doesn't get arrested for millions in tax evasion. Billions in fraud and tax evasion in the financial collapse, nobody arrested. But these cops couldn't sit back and do nothing? Bullshit!
Damit!! I got coffee and donut stains all over me again...That's the second shirt I ruined from laughing so hard at a post. This blinders on policing is starting to sound better and better and safer for everyone apparently... Interesting concept. Thanks for the tip.
Y'know... I'm getting a little bit tired of you telling every single person here who disagrees with you and backs up their opinion with case studies or statistics that we're deluded, don't understand the hardships of your job, or are taking the popular opinion. Or just making a complete mockery of everything we say.
My theory? You, and many police officers at this point in time, are having trouble coping with the fact that you might now be discriminated against because of a demographic you belong to. How ironic.
It's always been that way Pal, atleast in my town. I will never forget what my Feild training officer said 2 me on my first day.....kid, congratulations ..you are now closer to going 2 jail than you ever have been in your life putting on that uniform, just don't get yourself killed. I thought he was an old crusty veteran that was out of touch and didn't care anymore, but boy I was wrong. Liberal Society is going to get the kind of Policing that they are demanding and that is quite fine with me and everyone I work with. Taking reports and waiting for backup w/ in progress calls is a lot safer for us and apparently citizens. The Police will take the blame as we always do when homicides and shootings skyrocket in urban areas And all the community activist/revruns will be up in arms again for the Police not being aggressive enough dealing with the thug- life element. The song remains the same....been through this countless of times in my town.
This right here is the crux of the problem we have. Some police don't consider themselves part of the community they are policing. It's us vs. them, we are the enemy, and that's very problematic and scary.
Thanks for making that abundantly clear Musky.
It was my pleasure sir. And you are absolutey right, I don't consider myself part of the urban community I am forced to work in.. I am one who respects having a job, being respectful to my woman by marrying her and not having 10 kids with 7 different lady friends, staying off crack and heroin, not selling my food stamps meant for my 10 kids for 50dy cents on the $ to buy booze and cigarettes, essentially living a pathetic existence all paid for by you and me. Now you might ask, why don't you get the hell out of there??? Well just like all civil servant jobs it's all about senority. In my town you need atleat 20 years on to bid to one of "those" kinds communities . I gots a few more years 2 go. Be safe and keep on rockin in the free world !!
You are definitely a disgrace to the uniform.
I'm not keen on muskydan's comments but to call him a disgrace is uncalled for. While we do quite different work, we share a commonality in that we tend to see people at their worst. When you see the same people self-destructing day by day, taking their families with them and spitting in the faces (sometimes literally) of those trying hard to help them you can get very cynical about them. I can see this in my colleagues at times, and to be honest I feel it in myself occasionally. I try hard to be aware of it and to keep coming back to each person's essential humanity regardless of what they are doing. I'm guessing muskydan went into policing with great goals and ideals but these bump up against reality at times. Muskydan, whatever you see of each person isn't all that is there.
I might be out of line but I'm pretty sure that if Musky tweeted (non anonymously) what he said here he would be fired. Pretty sure about that.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Rgambs, you never fail me. Nothing like waking up 2 your thoughts. It appears I maybe growing on you just a teeny tiney bit....perhaps you would enjoy meeting up w/ speedy and I and for some drinks? I can tell you got some synicalness in Ya...Keep up the good fight .
I always start hostile and work my way back from there lol. I do admire your ability to take a hit and not get all bent out of shape, that's one of the best qualities an officer can have. I would meet anybody here for a drink, though 2 fingers of scotch is the extent of my drinking, just not a drinker and never a drunker. I used to enjoy the marijuanas before my wife got all preggered. Maybe someday I will again, and hopefully by then the law will be less hypocritical towards those who prefer a clean, dry buzz to a sloppy, wet one!
Rgambs, you never fail me. Nothing like waking up 2 your thoughts. It appears I maybe growing on you just a teeny tiney bit....perhaps you would enjoy meeting up w/ speedy and I and for some drinks? I can tell you got some synicalness in Ya...Keep up the good fight .
I always start hostile and work my way back from there lol. I do admire your ability to take a hit and not get all bent out of shape, that's one of the best qualities an officer can have. I would meet anybody here for a drink, though 2 fingers of scotch is the extent of my drinking, just not a drinker and never a drunker. I used to enjoy the marijuanas before my wife got all preggered. Maybe someday I will again, and hopefully by then the law will be less hypocritical towards those who prefer a clean, dry buzz to a sloppy, wet one!
Rgambs, you never fail me. Nothing like waking up 2 your thoughts. It appears I maybe growing on you just a teeny tiney bit....perhaps you would enjoy meeting up w/ speedy and I and for some drinks? I can tell you got some synicalness in Ya...Keep up the good fight .
I always start hostile and work my way back from there lol. I do admire your ability to take a hit and not get all bent out of shape, that's one of the best qualities an officer can have. I would meet anybody here for a drink, though 2 fingers of scotch is the extent of my drinking, just not a drinker and never a drunker. I used to enjoy the marijuanas before my wife got all preggered. Maybe someday I will again, and hopefully by then the law will be less hypocritical towards those who prefer a clean, dry buzz to a sloppy, wet one!
Ahmen 2 that G....
Musky, i spent a few good times in chi town with a buddy who played for your beloved bears, good times. For the record i love sloppy wet ones!
here is an analogy to someone working as post sales customer service rep... 100% percent of what they deal with are "problems" but its only 5% of the total sales. ask the customer service rep how good the product is and they will tell you it sucks, i spend my entire day dealing with problems. they are unlikely to tell you about the other 95% of sales that went smoothly.
Chicagos population is 2.7M, the muskys deal with 108,000 robbers and arsonists most of the time while the other 2.5M citizens go on their merry law abiding ways.
anyway carry on...
This is probably my favourite thing I've seen you write here. Analytical, accurate, fair, concise. Well put, JC.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
It was my pleasure sir. And you are absolutey right, I don't consider myself part of the urban community I am forced to work in.. I am one who respects having a job, being respectful to my woman by marrying her and not having 10 kids with 7 different lady friends, staying off crack and heroin, not selling my food stamps meant for my 10 kids for 50dy cents on the $ to buy booze and cigarettes, essentially living a pathetic existence all paid for by you and me. Now you might ask, why don't you get the hell out of there??? Well just like all civil servant jobs it's all about senority. In my town you need atleat 20 years on to bid to one of "those" kinds communities . I gots a few more years 2 go. Be safe and keep on rockin in the free world !!
Maybe an apology is due....did I assume that Musky was generalizing the actions of a few and applying that to an entire group? The entire group that he is paid to serve and protect?
I probably did assume that and offer my apology....too much coffee maybe.
But it really is kind of disturbing to read Musky's post. Or am I misinterpreting ""those" kinds of (sic) communities?"
No his view of the ghetto community's is disturbing to me he comes off a bit racist .....
By the way... muskydan, you have every right to feel the way you do, and I don't think it makes you a despicable person or a bad officer the way people here believe. We're all products of our experiences, and clearly you've had enough experiences that you feel justify your generalization on the full populace of Chicago (at least).
What bugs me is the arrogance and elitism combined with disrespect with which you speak where you equate the people to cockroaches that crawl all over you and require your time and effort to shake them off and squash them where possible. A police officer's role - to serve and protect - has implicit status relationships in it. Who do you serve? You serve your superior. Who do you protect? You protect someone who means more to you.
From my perspective, if you want to act like a police officer in the truest sense - your primary objective shouldn't be suppressing negative action, it should be enabling the people you serve to be the best versions of themselves. If I as a citizen witnessed authoritative figures who exclusively are present because they think I'm an animal, what am I going to start believing about myself?
Edited to correct grammar.
Post edited by benjs on
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Sorry Gern but paycheck,embrace and liberals should not be used in the same sentence unless of course we are talking about how to make them (pay checks)smaller.
You are delusional. Which party has been pushing "right to work" legislation?
Which party is pushing for an increase in the minimum wage? Wake up
Delusional Gern I don't think so.I get both sides here.I am an employer.One who has had full insurance and health benefits,401 k and other very generous perks for my employees way before the govt told me I needed to.Even the lowest paid employee I have makes more then double minimum wage.Again I didn't need to be prompted by govt. Has everyone of my people brought home less on their checks under this admin then last yes! Have I paid way more in taxes you bet.Im stroking all those checks every week,I see first hand how much less my employees being home. I don't care which party is ruling.It is just important that we pave the way for Sucess for all buisness owners and self employed folks.That way we can hire more people and the cycle continues.(sound familiar?)
oh...and by "under this administration" do you mean your leadership? What the hell does Obama have to do with your business. My revenues went up about 15% last year. Was that thanks to Obama? or me?
Don't get me wrong Me is always the answer.Our revenue is way up as well.I personally have enjoyed the last 8 years financially all because of Our hard work and sweat equity.But in fairness without my offset,some of my employees would all be out of pocket more now then prior to 08.im sure every situation is different. As I've stated in other threads,I am an Independent so To me I judge each administration on how it effects me/us.I just would like to see more common sense legislation to keep the road to buisness and financial success easier to obtain.
By the way... muskydan, you have every right to feel the way you do, and I don't think it makes you a despicable person or a bad officer the way people here believe. We're all products of our experiences, and clearly you've had enough experiences that you feel justify your generalization on the full populace of Chicago (at least) has merit.
What bugs me is the arrogance and elitism combined with disrespect with which you speak where you equate the people to cockroaches that crawl all over you and require your time and effort to shake them off and squash them where possible. A police officer's role - to serve and protect - has implicit status relationships in it. Who do you serve? You serve your superior. Who do you protect? You protect someone who means more to you.
From my perspective, if you want to act like a police officer in the truest sense - your primary objective shouldn't be suppressing negative action, it should be enabling the people you serve to be the best versions of themselves. If I as a citizen witnessed authoritative figures who exclusively are present because they think I'm an animal, what am I going to start believing about myself?
Interesting perspective, I will keep that in mind. However, if I hear "who do you protect, who do you serve" yelled in my ear for 6 straight hours I may just blow my own brains out. Note to self, earplugs for the next protest I work.
By the way... muskydan, you have every right to feel the way you do, and I don't think it makes you a despicable person or a bad officer the way people here believe. We're all products of our experiences, and clearly you've had enough experiences that you feel justify your generalization on the full populace of Chicago (at least) has merit.
What bugs me is the arrogance and elitism combined with disrespect with which you speak where you equate the people to cockroaches that crawl all over you and require your time and effort to shake them off and squash them where possible. A police officer's role - to serve and protect - has implicit status relationships in it. Who do you serve? You serve your superior. Who do you protect? You protect someone who means more to you.
From my perspective, if you want to act like a police officer in the truest sense - your primary objective shouldn't be suppressing negative action, it should be enabling the people you serve to be the best versions of themselves. If I as a citizen witnessed authoritative figures who exclusively are present because they think I'm an animal, what am I going to start believing about myself?
Interesting perspective, I will keep that in mind. However, if I hear "who do you protect, who do you serve" yelled in my ear for 6 straight hours I may just blow my own brains out. Note to self, earplugs for the next protest I work.
Perhaps you should give that question some thought, given your comments on the people in the community you are paid to serve.
And I think it just goes to show that if a seemingly decent cop refers to the people in the community he works as living a "pathetic existence" then is it any surprise that other not so decent police are so willing to kill these people so easily?
I gots no time my man, I am running late getting my shit together for muzzle loader season. Perhaps when i get up there I will from the deer stand. But the phone is usually off...nothing like tuning off...
Make the time. You have no problem writing in response to everyone else.
here is an analogy to someone working as post sales customer service rep... 100% percent of what they deal with are "problems" but its only 5% of the total sales. ask the customer service rep how good the product is and they will tell you it sucks, i spend my entire day dealing with problems. they are unlikely to tell you about the other 95% of sales that went smoothly.
Chicagos population is 2.7M, the muskys deal with 108,000 robbers and arsonists most of the time while the other 2.5M citizens go on their merry law abiding ways.
anyway carry on...
This is probably my favourite thing I've seen you write here. Analytical, accurate, fair, concise. Well put, JC.
Analytical? That's a purely negative thought process. To have 95% of your day be good but to voice the 5% that wasn't good is not analytical. It's cynical.
By the way... muskydan, you have every right to feel the way you do, and I don't think it makes you a despicable person or a bad officer the way people here believe. We're all products of our experiences, and clearly you've had enough experiences that you feel justify your generalization on the full populace of Chicago (at least) has merit.
What bugs me is the arrogance and elitism combined with disrespect with which you speak where you equate the people to cockroaches that crawl all over you and require your time and effort to shake them off and squash them where possible. A police officer's role - to serve and protect - has implicit status relationships in it. Who do you serve? You serve your superior. Who do you protect? You protect someone who means more to you.
From my perspective, if you want to act like a police officer in the truest sense - your primary objective shouldn't be suppressing negative action, it should be enabling the people you serve to be the best versions of themselves. If I as a citizen witnessed authoritative figures who exclusively are present because they think I'm an animal, what am I going to start believing about myself?
Great post. However, to try to reason with someone who views those he protects and serves as a derogatory group, I highly doubt you will change his mind. We're that "liberal society" he doesn't like.
here is an analogy to someone working as post sales customer service rep... 100% percent of what they deal with are "problems" but its only 5% of the total sales. ask the customer service rep how good the product is and they will tell you it sucks, i spend my entire day dealing with problems. they are unlikely to tell you about the other 95% of sales that went smoothly.
Chicagos population is 2.7M, the muskys deal with 108,000 robbers and arsonists most of the time while the other 2.5M citizens go on their merry law abiding ways.
anyway carry on...
This is probably my favourite thing I've seen you write here. Analytical, accurate, fair, concise. Well put, JC.
Analytical? That's a purely negative thought process. To have 95% of your day be good but to voice the 5% that wasn't good is not analytical. It's cynical.
If you live in a bubble (like a police officer chasing criminals or a customer service agent dealing with customers who hate your product), you can only define the universe by what you know and see in your bubble - not what you don't.
JC was analyzing the thought process of someone like muskydan - not stating that it's the correct way to think. And yes, I believe his statement was highly analytical and most likely accurate. The cynicism come from the people who practice this train of thought - not those that recognize it in others.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I gots no time my man, I am running late getting my shit together for muzzle loader season. Perhaps when i get up there I will from the deer stand. But the phone is usually off...nothing like tuning off...
Make the time. You have no problem writing in response to everyone else.
Chill out man, been in a deer blind the past 4 hours and I was going to reread your question and give you a honest responce later. At a bar now enjoying a delicious spotted Cow, so my brain now is focused on happy things. Why don't you have one too??
here is an analogy to someone working as post sales customer service rep... 100% percent of what they deal with are "problems" but its only 5% of the total sales. ask the customer service rep how good the product is and they will tell you it sucks, i spend my entire day dealing with problems. they are unlikely to tell you about the other 95% of sales that went smoothly.
Chicagos population is 2.7M, the muskys deal with 108,000 robbers and arsonists most of the time while the other 2.5M citizens go on their merry law abiding ways.
anyway carry on...
This is probably my favourite thing I've seen you write here. Analytical, accurate, fair, concise. Well put, JC.
Analytical? That's a purely negative thought process. To have 95% of your day be good but to voice the 5% that wasn't good is not analytical. It's cynical.
I think body cameras will help. But as the daughter of Mr. Garner pointed out, and I'm paraphrasing: "my dad was killed on national tv and still no justice."
here is an analogy to someone working as post sales customer service rep... 100% percent of what they deal with are "problems" but its only 5% of the total sales. ask the customer service rep how good the product is and they will tell you it sucks, i spend my entire day dealing with problems. they are unlikely to tell you about the other 95% of sales that went smoothly.
Chicagos population is 2.7M, the muskys deal with 108,000 robbers and arsonists most of the time while the other 2.5M citizens go on their merry law abiding ways.
anyway carry on...
This is probably my favourite thing I've seen you write here. Analytical, accurate, fair, concise. Well put, JC.
Analytical? That's a purely negative thought process. To have 95% of your day be good but to voice the 5% that wasn't good is not analytical. It's cynical.
If you live in a bubble (like a police officer chasing criminals or a customer service agent dealing with customers who hate your product), you can only define the universe by what you know and see in your bubble - not what you don't.
JC was analyzing the thought process of someone like muskydan - not stating that it's the correct way to think. And yes, I believe his statement was highly analytical and most likely accurate. The cynicism come from the people who practice this train of thought - not those that recognize it in others.
Sorry Gern but paycheck,embrace and liberals should not be used in the same sentence unless of course we are talking about how to make them (pay checks)smaller.
You are delusional. Which party has been pushing "right to work" legislation?
Which party is pushing for an increase in the minimum wage? Wake up
Delusional Gern I don't think so.I get both sides here.I am an employer.One who has had full insurance and health benefits,401 k and other very generous perks for my employees way before the govt told me I needed to.Even the lowest paid employee I have makes more then double minimum wage.Again I didn't need to be prompted by govt. Has everyone of my people brought home less on their checks under this admin then last yes! Have I paid way more in taxes you bet.Im stroking all those checks every week,I see first hand how much less my employees being home. I don't care which party is ruling.It is just important that we pave the way for Sucess for all buisness owners and self employed folks.That way we can hire more people and the cycle continues.(sound familiar?)
would it be fair to say that in part this is because costs have gone up not directly related to government? Such as supplies, transport, etc?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
I probably did assume that and offer my apology....too much coffee maybe.
But it really is kind of disturbing to read Musky's post. Or am I misinterpreting ""those" kinds of (sic) communities?"
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Very personal attacks made on a guy who, quite frankly, is shooting from the hip. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with his words, but I would never presume to think I am above him in character to judge him as 'a disgrace'.
Musky... I understand that you have likely seen some awful things. I understand that in time, after viewing so many awful things, that your perceptions have been shaped to some degree. I understand that this is human nature and I feel that as much as you might vent here in light of the pages and pages of attacks on your profession... you are very likely a really good guy.
You'll have to forgive the internet messiahs for their rude assessments. While it's likely they have never actually performed anything close to the duties you fulfill... I appreciate you do not lash back at their assessments of your character despite this.
His posts are disturbing.....and borderline
I just can't get by his verbiage...."those" communities? Hear that? He's speaking in code
of course I could be wrong
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
here is an analogy to someone working as post sales customer service rep... 100% percent of what they deal with are "problems" but its only 5% of the total sales. ask the customer service rep how good the product is and they will tell you it sucks, i spend my entire day dealing with problems. they are unlikely to tell you about the other 95% of sales that went smoothly.
Chicagos population is 2.7M, the muskys deal with 108,000 robbers and arsonists most of the time while the other 2.5M citizens go on their merry law abiding ways.
anyway carry on...
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
interesting...
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I always start hostile and work my way back from there lol. I do admire your ability to take a hit and not get all bent out of shape, that's one of the best qualities an officer can have. I would meet anybody here for a drink, though 2 fingers of scotch is the extent of my drinking, just not a drinker and never a drunker. I used to enjoy the marijuanas before my wife got all preggered. Maybe someday I will again, and hopefully by then the law will be less hypocritical towards those who prefer a clean, dry buzz to a sloppy, wet one!
Ahmen 2 that G....
Musky, i spent a few good times in chi town with a buddy who played for your beloved bears, good times.
For the record i love sloppy wet ones!
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
What bugs me is the arrogance and elitism combined with disrespect with which you speak where you equate the people to cockroaches that crawl all over you and require your time and effort to shake them off and squash them where possible. A police officer's role - to serve and protect - has implicit status relationships in it. Who do you serve? You serve your superior. Who do you protect? You protect someone who means more to you.
From my perspective, if you want to act like a police officer in the truest sense - your primary objective shouldn't be suppressing negative action, it should be enabling the people you serve to be the best versions of themselves. If I as a citizen witnessed authoritative figures who exclusively are present because they think I'm an animal, what am I going to start believing about myself?
Edited to correct grammar.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
As I've stated in other threads,I am an Independent so To me I judge each administration on how it effects me/us.I just would like to see more common sense legislation to keep the road to buisness and financial success easier to obtain.
However, if I hear "who do you protect, who do you serve" yelled in my ear for 6 straight hours I may just blow my own brains out. Note to self, earplugs for the next protest I work.
And I think it just goes to show that if a seemingly decent cop refers to the people in the community he works as living a "pathetic existence" then is it any surprise that other not so decent police are so willing to kill these people so easily?
JC was analyzing the thought process of someone like muskydan - not stating that it's the correct way to think. And yes, I believe his statement was highly analytical and most likely accurate. The cynicism come from the people who practice this train of thought - not those that recognize it in others.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14