Another death, police not indicted

backseatLover12backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
edited December 2014 in A Moving Train
Because discussing it in the M. Brown thread is not fair.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30317807

Eric Garner: No charges in NY chokehold case

A grand jury has not charged a New York City police officer over the death of Eric Garner, who died after being placed in a chokehold by the officer.

The case sparked national attention after a video of Officer Daniel Pantaleo arresting Garner on 17 July became public.

Garner, 43, who had asthma, was heard on the video shouting "I can't breathe!"

He was being arrested for allegedly selling untaxed cigarettes.

Following the decision, family lawyer Jonathon Moore said he was "astonished based on the evidence of the video tape, and the medical examiner, that this grand jury at this time wouldn't indict for anything".

Garner's daughter, Erica, told the BBC the grand jury "are not even human, [and] there is no humanity".

More at link above.
Post edited by backseatLover12 on
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Comments

  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Posts: 8,661
    edited December 2014
    Why is putting someone in a choke hold illegal?

    Btw, no reason for this guy to be dead. At all.
  • So why aren't the friends and family of this guy rioting?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    Why is putting someone in a choke hold illegal?

    Btw, no reason for this guy to be dead. At all.

    Not sure if it is exactly illegal, but it is against NYPD policy. Obese individuals and those with COPD are at risk for fatality from prolonged choking.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • There have been protests in NYC from the Ferguson outcome, I'm sure they will disrupt the tree lighting ceremony tonight.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    So why aren't the friends and family of this guy rioting?

    Part of the reason, IMO, is that the NYPD is very accustomed to protests and haven't/won't respond with such a Draconian show of force as was seen in Ferguson when the original protests sprung up.
    Another factor may be that the outside agitators can't afford to keep at it in a new city, but I don't know much about that.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs said:

    So why aren't the friends and family of this guy rioting?

    Part of the reason, IMO, is that the NYPD is very accustomed to protests and haven't/won't respond with such a Draconian show of force as was seen in Ferguson when the original protests sprung up.
    Another factor may be that the outside agitators can't afford to keep at it in a new city, but I don't know much about that.
    I really didn't see a problem with the way Ferguson brought the heavy artillery in. Regardless of what is being protested, the police still have to be in charge. The first batch of rioting in Ferguson proved that. I'd bet that if those protestors in NYC started to get violoent, you'd see the same sort of equipment used in Ferguson.
  • rgambs said:

    Why is putting someone in a choke hold illegal?

    Btw, no reason for this guy to be dead. At all.

    Not sure if it is exactly illegal, but it is against NYPD policy. Obese individuals and those with COPD are at risk for fatality from prolonged choking.
    It seems to be an effective way to gain control of the situation. As long as the guy let's the choke hold loose. I found it odd that it was against NYPD SOP.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    rgambs said:

    Why is putting someone in a choke hold illegal?

    Btw, no reason for this guy to be dead. At all.

    Not sure if it is exactly illegal, but it is against NYPD policy. Obese individuals and those with COPD are at risk for fatality from prolonged choking.
    It seems to be an effective way to gain control of the situation. As long as the guy let's the choke hold loose. I found it odd that it was against NYPD SOP.
    This situation was far from needing control to be gained, which is why it's so tragic. Not that you were saying it was out of control, I'm just saying.
    As a restraint in a situation loosing control it's not really super effectic, a standing rear-naked choke leaves you vulnerable to face scraping, eye-gouging, and anyone with a little grappling training would drop and turn their hips and send you flying. The main reason it is outside SOP is probably because of the significant risk for fatality.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,042
    I read somewhere that in many places it requires more hours of training to become a cosmetologist than to become a cop. Thus these kinds of terrible incidents.
    (But as I've said elsewhere, this doesn't mean I think all cops are bad.)
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    Comments are typical. Lack of compassion much?
    Clearly there is a consensus that resisting arrest is grounds for lethal force among law enforcement.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • how many grand juries does it take to change a lightbulb??

    none- they can't agree that the bulb is broken..

    our system is really, really, fucked up.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,042
    Yeah, several of those comments at the end of the article JC29856 posted definitely lack compassion. I would say some are definitely racist as well. And judging by some of the writing, I'd say some of those comments also illustrate my point made elsewhere about lack of education (which should be part of proper training) being a problem. We need to raise the qualification bar on this occupation.

    (But still keep in mind that there are some damn fine cops out there.)
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    This one is just tragic.Id call this one a accidental death,a tragedy.I really didn't see excessive force.No guns,tazers,pepper spray.Just Cops trying to arrest a big dude who was not making it easy.This wasn't murder by a long shot.Horrible and tragic and unnecessary yes but I watch the video a few times and I don't see a bunch of gung-ho storm troopers.Just typical police work that had a bad accident.
  • coroner ruled it a homicide.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,840

    rgambs said:

    Why is putting someone in a choke hold illegal?

    Btw, no reason for this guy to be dead. At all.

    Not sure if it is exactly illegal, but it is against NYPD policy. Obese individuals and those with COPD are at risk for fatality from prolonged choking.
    It seems to be an effective way to gain control of the situation. As long as the guy let's the choke hold loose. I found it odd that it was against NYPD SOP.
    Did you see that type of equipment at occupy? The nypd does a lot of things terribly, but brining tanks to a hostile situation is something below them
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    rr165892 said:

    This one is just tragic.Id call this one a accidental death,a tragedy.I really didn't see excessive force.No guns,tazers,pepper spray.Just Cops trying to arrest a big dude who was not making it easy.This wasn't murder by a long shot.Horrible and tragic and unnecessary yes but I watch the video a few times and I don't see a bunch of gung-ho storm troopers.Just typical police work that had a bad accident.

    What amount of force is necessary for a man selling loose cigarettes? To me it seems to be NONE. Typical police work, I agree, that's exactly the problem. Escalate what should be a citation and a goodbye into a show of force which carries the risk of tragedy for civilian and officer alike.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    http://m.truthdig.com/report/item/hands_up_dont_choke_20141203

    Day after coroner ruled homicide police harassed guy video it
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    CMTSU

    Following the announcement Wednesday that a Staten Island grand jury declined to indict the NYPD officer who placed Eric Garner in a fatal chokehold, Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) told CNN's Wolf Blitzer that Garner would not have died if he hadn't been so "obese."

    "If he had not had asthma and a heart condition and was so obese, almost definitely he would not have died from this,” King said. "The police had no reason to know he was in serious condition."

    The city's medical examiner ruled Garner's death a homicide and attributed it to the use of a chokehold by officer Daniel Pantaleo. Garner had repeatedly exclaimed "I can't breathe" during the arrest, as seen in the video recorded by bystanders. Nevertheless, King questioned whether Garner had pleaded for help, telling Blitzer, "The fact of the matter is, if you can’t breathe, you can’t talk." He added: "I have no doubt if he was a 350-pound white guy, he would have been treated the same."
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    What does CMTSU mean?

    Haven't read more than a bit about this today, and just now saw some of the current protests in NYC. I hope that fires, property damage, and personal violence are at a minimum (if happening at all).
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Can't Make This Shit Up

    "I was just minding my own business. Every time you see me you want to mess with me. I'm tired of it. It stops today!" Garner swatted their arms away, saying, "Don't touch me, please." "I can't breathe" 11 times, then limp, then dead, handcuff the corpse. 7 minutes 8 cops no cpr, 4 minutes with ems present no cpr. Then loaded on a stretcher to be pronounced dead at hospital.

    Nope nothing wrong there!

    Fuck cameras, law suit payouts and settlements from PD pensions.
    Fuck grand juries for police involved incidents, special panel of prosecutors.
    Officers found guilty go to prison with other murders, no special treatment.
    Police killings will stop yesterday.
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    rgambs said:

    rr165892 said:

    This one is just tragic.Id call this one a accidental death,a tragedy.I really didn't see excessive force.No guns,tazers,pepper spray.Just Cops trying to arrest a big dude who was not making it easy.This wasn't murder by a long shot.Horrible and tragic and unnecessary yes but I watch the video a few times and I don't see a bunch of gung-ho storm troopers.Just typical police work that had a bad accident.

    What amount of force is necessary for a man selling loose cigarettes? To me it seems to be NONE. Typical police work, I agree, that's exactly the problem. Escalate what should be a citation and a goodbye into a show of force which carries the risk of tragedy for civilian and officer alike.
    Not the act .The amount of force is relative to his size and non compliance and his perceived escalating hostile demeanor. It sucks and any death is horrible but they could not just sit back and do nothing.
    I do agree it is not a good outcome and senseless waste of life.
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845

    coroner ruled it a homicide.

    A ruling of "homicide" is not a finding of fault. A homicide is when a death is caused by another person, but doesn't necessarily imply that it was improper/unjustified; it simply means that it was not natural.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Officers say the choke hold wasn't a choke hold but a wrestle move to induce compliance.
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Broken Windows Policing

    Critics of the department have described Mr. Garner’s death as among the most egregious results of a “broken windows” approach to crime that targets low-level offenses in largely minority neighborhoods. But officials have been quick to describe Mr. Garner’s death as an isolated incident. “This is one particular interaction between two people,” said Stephen Davis, the chief spokesman for the department. “You can’t judge the whole program on that.”


    The reason for these stops is a policing approach called “broken windows,” first articulated by scholars James Q. Wilson and George L. Kelling in a 1982 Atlantic Monthly essay and later adopted by the NYPD in 1993. Broken windows prioritizes cracking down on minor offenses on the theory that doing so can preempt serious crime. Or, to use the metaphor of the idea, actual broken windows create the appearance of disorder, which creates actual disorder as criminals take advantage of the inviting environment. Rather than wait for the serious crimes to begin, police should “repair the windows”—focus on petty crime like loitering, and you’ll stop the worse crime from taking hold.

    It’s an elegant concept, but there’s little evidence it works. “Taken together,” notes a 2006 study from the University of Chicago, “the evidence from New York City and from the five-city social experiment provides no support for a simple first-order disorder-crime relationship as hypothesized by Wilson and Kelling nor for the proposition that broken windows policing is the optimal use of scarce law enforcement resources.” Yes, the massive New York crime decline of the 1990s coincided with broken windows policing, but chances are it had more to do with a reversion to the mean (“what goes up, must come down, and what goes up the most, tends to come down the most”) than any new approach.

    If broken windows were just a waste of resources, it wouldn’t be a huge concern. But as a policy, broken windows has also had the effect of terrorizing black and Latino New Yorkers.
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